Is a Hamburger a Sandwich? (A Debate with Samuel Sey)

Your Calvinist

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:00

Hey guys, it's Keith and welcome to this very important and life changing debate on the subject of is a Hamburger a sandwich my guest today and my opponent in this debate is author Writer blogger, I think all those three things are the same, but my friend Samuel say Samuel.

00:20

How you doing, my friend? I'm doing very well.

00:22

So this will be the easiest debate I've ever had.

00:25

So I'm doing extremely extremely well.

00:27

How you doing? I'm doing great.

00:29

I'm doing great and you have been on the show before we had you on and we talked about the kovat vaccine We had a very good conversation about that for anybody who wants to go back in the archives and see our previous conversation but for those who who may be new to you, I would like for you before we begin to introduce yourself to the audience and Tell us about your writing ministry.

00:50

Tell us about your family and its growth and things that are happening in your life Yeah, thank you Yeah, my blog is slow to write calm my social media handles are is also slow to write it is based on James 119 Which says let everyone be quick to listen and slow to speak and slow to anger So I write mostly about racial issues abortion other cultural issues political Issues from a biblical perspective.

01:16

That's what I'm mostly known for.

01:18

I also do speaking as well, too I've been traveling across Previously I was in I was in Canada.

01:24

I'm Canadian I was born in Ghana But then I lived in Canada for about 25 years until I moved here to the US in Ohio to be particular Just I guess last year.

01:36

Yeah last winter So yeah, I do speaking as well to mostly on abortion and critical race theory.

01:43

I have a project I'm working on on One of these issues that I can't disclose just yet, but it will be coming out There'll be a trailer for it.

01:52

Hopefully just in a few weeks and then as you mentioned my family I've You know being married last year.

02:01

We are now expecting our child to be born Next month in October.

02:07

So amen.

02:08

We're very excited.

02:10

Also a little bit nervous, but But we're very grateful To God for his blessings, you know giving me a wife and then giving me a child so very excited Can I ask one quick question? about You're you're about to become a father What is this thing? What is the thing that you're most excited about and the thing that you're most nervous about? hmm, I Can start maybe what I'm most nervous about first one is I guess a as every Nervous or anxious thought is it's in security I grew up without a father.

02:49

So I've been thinking a lot about Just being a good father and I've talked to a lot of people about this and People who grew up without dads to tell me that they were also very nervous and very anxious about having their child And for me, it's it's it's a son.

03:05

We have a son.

03:07

So I've been just really thinking about What does it just mean to be a good father will I be will I be reliable and to be honest with you It's just being I want to be everything that my father wasn't for me I want to be there and just be a consistent godly father So I've just been kind of anxious and nervous about just being that godly father What I'm excited about is really just being able to disciple someone to have someone It's my wife and I have been you know talking so much about This is an eternal soul that God has made us stewards of and amen.

03:49

It is an incredible blessing I'm like man that God would would bless me this way You know, so it's it's I'm excited.

04:00

I'm anything about curriculums to teach All my books that I want to read with him and you know, I'm getting way way ahead of myself But I'm very excited about just being able to raise someone.

04:15

I know my mom she mentions how much her children give her so much joy and I'm already experiencing a little bit of that, but I can't wait for My son to add to my joy by you know, giving me the privilege of raising him and discipling him Amen.

04:35

Amen, and I'm so excited for you.

04:36

I'm so happy for you I feel bad that I'm gonna have to destroy you in this debate because because we've you know, I consider you a Person I respect and my friend and I just feel like this, you know, this is gonna be hard to do But I'm gonna do it.

04:51

I'm gonna do it.

04:52

And and so I'm gonna give you well first Let me explain the the premise behind the debate.

04:57

You posted a You posted a tweet that or maybe it was a Facebook post where you said that your wife Asked you to have Sandwiches for dinner and you said you said sandwiches are not dinner and she said but we have hamburgers for dinner and you Said that a hamburger is not a sandwich How dare you you know, and so I picked up on that and I said a hamburger is a sandwich I believe it is with all my heart So that's I I wrote you and I said, let's do a quick fun debate for my audience I thought they would they would get a kick out of it So we're actually gonna I want to do two two debates actually, we're gonna do our major debate is as a hamburger sandwich But then the second real quick I want us to debate just like a two-minute debate on whether or not a Sandwich is appropriate dinner because I because I would also say you can have a sandwich for dinner, which you said is not good.

05:50

So So so you want Two quick losses tonight.

05:57

That's what you're saying.

05:57

That's what it is But but I tell you what you you you're brandishing your Canadian flag over your right shoulder and and so we all know that That part of your position is because you're just a little north of the of the border there with your thinking So so we got a we got to try to bring you down a little So we actually agree a little bit on that and I will explain why when I'm destroying you on this argument Okay.

06:24

All right.

06:24

Well, let's do it this way.

06:26

I'm gonna give you Because you are taking the affirmative, no, I'm sorry, you're taking the negative you're saying a hamburger is not a sandwich So I'm taking this Yeah.

06:36

Yeah, so I'm taking the affirmative a hamburger is a sandwich.

06:39

I'll go first thing because the affirmative normally goes first I will give my opening statement and then I will allow you to give your opening statement and then we'll have cross-examination How's that sound? Okay, and this is all this is all just for fun So it's not too serious, but I'll my opening statement is very simple Okay.

06:56

So is a hamburger a sandwich the dictionary definition of a sandwich according to Merriam-Webster? Is two or more slices of bread or a split roll having a filling in? Between and that's the definition according to Merriam-Webster of a sandwich Now the second definition is one slice of bread covered with food now I even I would take maybe some issue with that as being a traditional sandwich But that's Merriam-Webster's two definitions for a sandwich and the USDA uses the definition that quote at least 35% of cooked meat and no more than 50% bread for closed sandwiches and at least 50% cooked meat for open sandwiches and in Britain The British Sandwich Association there is such a thing as a British Sandwich Association Defines a sandwich as any form of bread with a filling generally assembled cold Which of course I take issue with because hamburgers are not normally served cold According to my research the sandwich was named after the supposed inventor John Montague fourth Earl of sandwich And the popular myth is that he created this food Because he liked to sit at the gambling table and this allowed him to eat with one hand as he held his cards with the other Hand now whether or not that myth is true.

08:12

It does give rise to the idea of what makes a sandwich What makes a sandwich is not just the fact that it's two pieces of bread with something in between But it's the method of delivery into the mouth.

08:22

It's something that's eaten with the hand So I think if something is is eaten with a fork or a knife I don't think we would appropriately say that that was a sandwich But because the hamburger is is this is the position we take and for those who are listening They won't be able to see my hands, but it's this position of Reaching down picking up.

08:39

That's the same position.

08:40

We take with a sandwich it's the same position we take with a hamburger and so my contention is that the only difference between a hamburger and a sandwich is they simply a matter of what we are Discussing in the middle because both of them have two pieces of bread both of them have something in the middle whether it's peanut butter and Jelly, whether it's cheese Whether it's meat and cheese meat lettuce cheese or what your wife is wanting to cook you which was a bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich Which I assume for Canadians would be a ham Lettuce and tomato sandwich because you guys have a very weird type of bacon So that is my contention that burgers are sandwiches because of the method of delivery the method of construction It's all the same.

09:23

It's just what's different on the middle So that is my opening statement, and I'm sure we'll get into more when we get to the cross-examination So now Samuel your turn to give your opening statement.

09:33

Yeah.

09:33

Well first I have to say that I was wrong about you I thought you had discernment But clearly you do not I mean to you this is a laughing matter, but to me, I'm very concerned So, okay.

09:46

So just a quick question.

09:48

This is not really a question.

09:49

Yeah, just a quick question Have you disclosed this to your church? Is your church aware of your views on this? They will be now they will be now this this is going to go live to all of my dozens of fans I'm sorry If you are then, you know, therefore disqualified from ministry for your views on this because this is I'm surprised that a pastor would would publicly Affirm, you know the view that you have so in a sense, I guess I kind of respect you for your honesty Because of what you're gonna lose after this But okay, so after all those Postmodern definitions you had all these different ideas as to what a sandwich can be I would just give you a very simple definition.

10:30

It's actually kind of similar to one of the ones that you mentioned already But before I get to that, I'll say this I'll read from powers 18 verse 17 The one who states his case first seems right Which means I'm very glad you went first instead of me.

10:44

Otherwise this text.

10:45

I couldn't really read it The one who see this case first seems right until the other comes and examines him.

10:52

All right so I'm gonna ask you basically a Very very simple question.

10:57

All right, I'll just make one statement through a question then we can get into the particulars later so according to you This is a sandwich Hey, you brought a hamburger with you look at there.

11:12

Oh, I'm prepared.

11:14

Believe me.

11:15

This is not this is one of many So are you saying this is a sandwich? I am.

11:20

Yes.

11:21

Absolutely All right And according to you this is also a sandwich Yes, absolutely now is that on is that on rye bread Let me show what kind of bread it is Okay, cuz cuz peanut butter and jelly on rye bread is just that's sinful has to be on white bread Well, it's it's seeds but I don't know exactly what kind of What kind of bread it is? I know nothing about bread.

11:48

I know Sandwiches, but nothing about bread Okay, so since you were trying to distract from me about to finish you with this, you know first point, okay So you're saying these two? Items are the exact same thing.

12:03

They're sandwiches.

12:04

I'm saying they're both sandwiches.

12:06

Yes You still maintaining this I still I am maintaining it.

12:11

I have I have more arguments to make but yes, okay So just this is just to be clear Meat right burgers in Two patties actually in this So-called sandwich according to you.

12:25

Is that a Big Mac? That that's a Big Mac is a club sandwich.

12:33

Oh My goodness, okay You're hurting me here You're hurting my soul so much nevertheless you're saying these two things are technically the very same food item.

12:46

I I'm saying they're the same food category I mean if I had a six ounce steak and a 17 ounce steak, they would both still be steak are not comparing two different kinds of steaks according to their size Okay, if I had a if I had a New York Strip and a filet mignon, they would still both be steak So different kinds of steaks but still and they look very different, but they're still but there's steaks is the exact same thing It's meat These two things I showed you one is You know, it's peanut butter and jelly right? Yes Yes in a sandwich right in between bread and then the other is is bread covering two beautifully tasty delicious Have you had a McDonald's Look I will say I have a love for McDonald's that is Unpopular.

13:43

I love the Big Mac.

13:45

All right, but these two are clearly different You cannot put these two in the same category.

13:50

You can't first of all one is primarily for breakfast I don't know anybody who eats You know who eats McDonald's for breakfast, right? These are two different items.

13:59

But anyways, I would just oh wait Wait, this might be a Canadian thing.

14:02

I don't know anybody who eats sandwiches for breakfast.

14:05

Do you eat sandwiches for breakfast? Yes, so you eat peanut butter and jelly outside of breakfast I eat peanut butter and jelly for lunch.

14:13

I don't eat peanut butter and jelly for breakfast.

14:15

That's okay So that's a that's a cultural difference because yeah, I mean the only sandwich I would have for breakfast would maybe be an egg sandwich Or a sausage biscuit, which I don't know if we'd consider that a sandwich.

14:26

I would say a biscuit is It's still a sandwich because it's the same structure Wait a minute Wait a minute A sausage biscuit is a sandwich.

14:40

Yes Okay, you consider just a biscuit with filling inside of it Do you consider that I say Oreos you consider Oreo sandwiches Oreos are called a cookie sandwich.

14:53

It says it on the package It's a cookie sandwich You are blowing my mind here, okay, you know what sorry I want you to you know mention the rest of your points So I'll let you continue.

15:06

Well, I want to show you something because you mentioned McDonald's You even went to the trouble of going to McDonald's and buying a Big Mac Which I want to thank you for your country for your commitment to the bit.

15:15

This is hilarious and I love it, but But McDonald's has their menu online and I just happen to have gone to get their menu for this purpose So here is here's a picture.

15:26

I don't know if you can you see this on your screen? I can see it Yes, okay.

15:29

So you see there on the listing here? It's it says the meal McNuggets fries notice it says sandwiches, right? and if you click on that it brings up this and it says Big Mac under sandwiches quarter pounder under sandwiches double bacon quarter pounder with cheese these are all under the heading of sandwiches and and and McDonald's is Has sold over a billion hamburger.

15:54

So they know what a hamburger is They put it in the category of sandwich if you go to Burger King, they are the king I have a crown from them, you know this so if you go Burger King It says Whopper sandwich impossible Whopper sandwich double Whopper sandwich.

16:09

I am bringing you statistically or not statistically a written specific from the the Burger King and and hamburger capital restaurants, I Win I have to say Okay Now as I said, I love the McDonald's burgers, right I Enjoy them.

16:34

Well, hold on here.

16:35

Are you honestly telling me if you are a foodie? Are you really telling me that Burger King and McDonald's are the authority on burgers? Are you really gonna stand by that? What I'm saying yes or no, yes or no, sir.

16:50

Okay.

16:51

Okay.

16:51

Okay.

16:51

That's a yes or no question I would say I would say that they are an authority not not the only authority so I could say yes Therefore your point doesn't really work.

17:02

You thought you had me but oh, no, I recovered Okay, because there's no way because if I want a solid premium Just Almost just the best kind of burgers you can get while I enjoy McDonald's.

17:17

I'm not going there for my Premium burgers, right? So they are not the authority.

17:24

So if you finish your point, I can tell you what the authority is on burgers Oh, I would I'd love to hear who your favorite who do you think is the authority on burgers? Well before I get to that I have to kind of go back to history a little bit you mentioned some of it but I had to give the clear picture of Who the authority is when it comes to burgers or sandwiches you mentioned the Lord of sandwich kind of right.

17:48

Is that what you mentioned earlier? Yeah, Marburg is his name Yeah, the the Earl of sandwich.

17:54

Yes Fourth Earl of sandwich.

17:58

Yes.

17:59

Yes.

17:59

Okay, so The word sandwich clearly comes from Britain, right? Would you agree with that? Indeed? Yes.

18:08

Okay This is unlike, you know, I'm not a postmodernist like the way you were defining burgers earlier So I'm you know, just going to make sure that we are on the same page here.

18:17

Okay.

18:17

Oh, absolutely So this means now you disagree with me, but this means that the British are the experts on sandwiches You mentioned earlier that I am of course from Canada Therefore that is skewing my view of burgers and sandwiches, but I disagree Actually, it is giving me a greater insight into the issue Because as a loyal subject of the British monarchy, I know the British are always right always right Sorry, so You you you read the British Association so the British sandwich association earlier We didn't fully read what they said, which is very convenient for you, of course So they define a sandwich as any form of bread with a filling generally assembled cold Again the experts where the the word sandwich comes from are saying any form of bread with a filling generally assembled cold to include Traditional wedge sandwiches as well as filled rolls baguettes pita bloomers wraps and bagels They continue this is where you left out.

19:27

There is much debate as to what constitutes as a sandwich But burgers and other associate products are not considered to be a sandwich also the first written word the first usage of of the word of the word sandwich in English It appeared in Edward Gibbons journal in longhand referring to bits of cold meat as a sandwich So quick question.

19:58

Have you ever eaten a cold burger? at a restaurant before Not on purpose.

20:04

No exactly Because it is impossible burgers are supposed to be hot.

20:10

They're not supposed to be cold Sandwiches according to the experts the British are supposed to be generally cold So that's a plus two for me there.

20:21

Okay.

20:22

Hey, all right, but let me let me counter question you Have you ever eaten a sandwich that had hot stuff in it and yet you still defined it as a sandwich such as like a meatball sandwich or a grilled cheese sandwich, I Don't think I actually ever have you've never had a grilled cheese sandwich Oh brother, you got to come to my house and have a grilled cheese sandwich.

20:43

They are the best I don't like grilled cheese.

20:46

I I don't like cheese at all.

20:48

Oh So your points there doesn't work.

20:51

Well, no, no, no, but but Would you still define it as a grilled cheese sandwich, it's a hot sandwich, you know, what? Yes, I would.

20:58

Yes.

20:58

Okay Okay So that so the fact that the that the internal Temperature is hot doesn't make it a sandwich or not And this is where I think and by the way using the British to argue for a culinary Position.

21:10

It's really not a position that I thought you would take it's clever, but not exactly Keeping with what we know about Britain You know, maybe France maybe Italy not Great Britain, I'm just Can't argue against that one.

21:29

I can't argue against that So so here's where I take this to a real extreme and maybe this will draw us to a close I'm so I'm so committed to this position and Hans Feeney, you know Hans Feeney online the guy with Lutheran satire He says it can't be a hamburger because you can have a hamburger without bread I say yes But anytime you order a hamburger it always comes with bread unless you tell him not to unless you order a hamburger steak It always comes with bread.

21:52

So with for me it always has bread Therefore it's always a sandwich, but I go as far as to say a hot dog is a sandwich I go as far as to say because a hoagie is a sandwich and a hot dog is a hoagie Therefore a hot dog is a sandwich, but therefore also a taco is a hot dog It's a Mexican hot dog, which makes a Mexican hoagie.

22:11

So all of those are sandwiches I put a lot of things in the category of sandwich and I just love the fact that you're just shaking your head and you Think you're completely wrong burgers and hot dogs are Completely separate item.

22:25

They're different the meat the burgers and the hot dogs are so unique They cannot be sandwiches.

22:31

They're different.

22:32

You know what? I'll give an example.

22:34

Okay speaking of being prepared I'm gonna ask you a very simple question Okay in all seriousness Am I a sandwich you're a theological sandwich right now That is why I cannot agree with you, okay No, go ahead.

23:02

Go ahead.

23:03

Oh, no.

23:03

No, no, please finish your thought.

23:05

Yeah, I know you're saying I'm a theological Sandwich.

23:08

Yes, because you're a theological my sandwich You can't you can't eat So go ahead did you say I can't eat a theological sandwich no, you can't no, I wouldn't no not at all exactly because they're not There are different kinds of sandwiches Sure, but once you have a certain kind of unique meat in there as I am very unique meats, obviously It becomes a completely different item So this is a sandwich This is not this is a burger Right, so you cannot say they're the same if we say they're similar sure they're similar, but they're not the exact same thing and frankly anyone who says that loses a massive amount of discernment In my view, so I'm very very surprised that you would take this view I mean when you mentioned it, I was quite surprised several other people were saying this But I assumed that they were not believers, but for To be saying this it really shocked me Well, I I tell you what, the good thing is I don't run a discernment ministry.

24:20

So it's okay you could All right.

24:23

So very quickly Before we before we close I want to ask tell me why you don't think okay So let's assume that you're correct, even though I would still disagree Let's assume that you're correct and sandwiches and hamburgers can be distinguished.

24:37

Why is a sandwich? Not an appropriate dinner Okay, now this I will admit comes from a more cultural point of view I will admit that This is where I guess I become a post-modernist.

24:52

I suppose okay, but it's that Sandwiches.

24:56

Well one, you know now I mentioned I'm Canadian But and Canadians would agree with Americans generally on sandwiches being dinners, but being a gone in We don't really eat sandwiches all that it's not really part of our, you know Sandwiches are mostly Western meals, right? So they're not very common in Africa, especially in Ghana and To eat them as dinner.

25:17

So even for me Growing up in Canada.

25:20

We never ate sandwiches for dinner It was always as a breakfast or as a lunch because they're really honestly we see there's more snacks They're not filling they're not gonna unless you eat like five of them or something at least for me anyways Right.

25:37

So now a burger again would be different because the patties are very filling But you know, so we had a BLT sandwich and I see that I'm like, that's a snack That's not dinner, right? you know for dinner there has to be a massive at least again for me a massive amount of meat in there the BLT it's not No matter how much bacon you put in there unless you're gonna be putting in like 20 of them or something It's not gonna be sufficient for dinner in my opinion All right, and somehow I said that to my wife and I still slept on the bed.

26:10

I didn't sleep on a couch.

26:11

So I was very grateful for that.

26:14

But anyway, that's my that's my reasoning for why I don't think Sandwiches can be you know should be made for dinner Dude, does your wife make you American bacon or does she make you Canadian bacon? Well, we buy we buy our bacon here so it is Well, I've seen Canadian bacon in the store.

26:33

It looks to me like ham, but I just that's why I was asking I don't know if you had a preference, but I couldn't imagine having a Canadian bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich It just doesn't seem very appealing to me Well with that being said, I appreciate you Coming on the show today having some fun This was all spawned off of a Twitter conversation and I hope people enjoy and it was good to reconnect with you I appreciate you going all the way to McDonald's and bringing that back to try to prove your point Even though I contend I think I continue to oh wait one last thing.

27:05

Do you eat do you eat Subway sandwiches like subs? No, not really.

27:10

I'm not that big of a fan of sandwiches as you guys you can probably yeah I was gonna say Okay, cuz that seems to me like it might be filling for a dinner because it's you know, 12 inches long or whatever So yeah, I've had some before and they were okay.

27:24

It's just I just don't think oh, I can't wait to eat a Subway sandwich Okay, well Samuel thank you so much one more time if you would tell everyone how they can read your material where they can Find you if people wanted to contact you how they get a hold of you Yeah, they can find me a slow to write calm where they can Just get more of my amazing discernment, you know this displayed a home on the website But it can find me, you know writing about critical race theory abortion different cultural political issues from the Christian perspective They can find me also on Instagram Facebook Twitter at slow to write as well Awesome.

28:01

Well Samuel.

28:02

Thank you again Thank you again for being on the show and I want to thank the audience for for Humoring us now for the last 25 30 minutes and I want to ask you in the comments put below who you think won this Debate who do you think is the the Earl of sandwiches now? we can take John Montague's position and be the Earl of sandwich and And why or if you have a different argument whether or not a hamburger is a sandwich or not Put it in the comments below or drop a line for us in Twitter.