Pastor Mike Harding & Austin Beigel: The Shady Underworld of "Pro-Life" Politicians DMW#186

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Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and all of the Fascinating Subjects in Between, Broadcasting from an

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Undisclosed Location, Dead Men Walking starts now! Well, hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast.

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Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking us out on dmwpodcast .com, and yes, if you're watching, you can see that I'm wearing my

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Calvinist Before It Was Cool t -shirt sent to me by the lovely Claude Ramsey at Here I Stand Theology Podcast.

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He makes those t -shirts and sent them out to a couple of us, so shout out to him. Go check out his podcast too if you're listening here.

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Just a lovely brother in the Lord, but I want to get right into it because we have two guys that have been on before.

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They worked to end abortion, truly end abortion through the total abolition of abortion. I have

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Austin and Mike from End Abortion Now on. Guys, how are you doing? Doing good.

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Yeah, so I wanted to have you guys back on just to give us an update. We do broadcast out of Michigan.

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I spend a lot of time in Ohio as a realtor licensed there. Obviously, I'm three miles from the border of the

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Michigan -Ohio border here in Monroe, so I keep a close eye on what's going on in Ohio. Both of you guys are working to end abortion in Ohio, and when we had you on last time, you were presenting some legislation, looked like you had a sponsor.

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I think it was a representative or state senator. I can't quite remember, but you'll clear that up for me. Just wanted to see, give us an update, what was going on, especially since the proposal in Ohio, for those that don't know, outside of the state, there was an issue going on with trying to get essentially the

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Constitution amended that says you need two -thirds of a vote instead of just 51 % of the vote to make a change to the

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Constitution, which mimics our federal Constitution, and most states are that way as well. I know Michigan is, and Ohio is still just a 50 -plus -1 state, and that failed, which was kind of a stopgap for some of those in the pro -life movement.

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So we'll get to that in a minute, but if you guys could just kind of dive right in and let me know. It's been four or five months since you've been on.

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What's the status on the bill, and how's that going? Yeah, we were pushing that thing since February with Representative Bill Dean in Ohio, so that's the

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Ohio House of Representatives, and it's been a long process to get here where he had committed to file it and introduce it into the

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House a couple different dates, and we eventually just got to the point where he said

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September 13th was the day he was going to do it, which was later than he said at first, but we're happy to work with him as well, and we had a lot of conversations with him and brought in the guys from End Abortion Now to talk to him,

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Bradley Pierce and Zach Conover, and worked with him for a long time on it, but we're a couple weeks away now from September 13th.

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We had the Statehouse Plaza reserved, ready for a rally for equal protection when he said he was going to introduce it, and just last week he told us he's done and he's going to back out.

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He has been spoken to by various pro -life organizations in Ohio. Mike and I had run into a board member of Ohio Right to Life before in our lobbying meetings with this representative, and Ohio Right to Life was actively opposing it in person, and then most recently the

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Center for Christian Virtue sent their president out to speak with Bill Dean and communicate with him that they do not want that bill going through right now, and he gave to the various pressures and the interest groups in that pro -life establishment and told us that he's not going to file it on September 13th anymore, but also that he's going to keep the bill for himself and not give it to other people.

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So at this point, actively opposing getting it in there. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay.

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You just threw out some big keywords there, pro -life and Christian virtue.

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Why were these groups opposed to your bill? What was their reason for it? There's a number of reasons.

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First of all, Ohio Right to Life, they've already signed a document saying they won't support any personhood bill.

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This is the letter that went out last year in May 2022 based on what happened in Louisiana with their bill to abolish abortion.

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A lot of pro -life organizations got together and say they won't do personhood bills because it doesn't grant immunity to all women for involvement in abortion and all the mothers.

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And so they signed a letter and said they will never support that type of legislation. The president of Ohio Right to Life put his name on it, which states,

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I stand firmly opposed to this legislation. So it was no surprise to us when we then saw the board members of Ohio Right to Life coming out and trying to kill the bill before it even got started.

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The board member, Mike McGuire, was using the same language as in that letter they signed last year.

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He's pointing to old laws from the 1800s and just a bunch of nonsense, excuse after excuse.

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Then with the Center for Christian Virtue, there's a ballot initiative in Ohio coming in November, which will potentially legalize abortion through our state constitution in all nine months for any reason.

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And so the pro -life movement in Ohio just has been frozen over it. They don't know what to do.

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They don't know how to message against it. They don't know how to campaign against it. And so their fear was that doing anything else pro -life would cause the left to come out in bigger numbers for that vote.

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So even bills that Mike and I disagree with morally, such as the heartbeat bill that's in Ohio and tied up in the courts still, they don't even want the

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Supreme Court to rule on the heartbeat bill that they passed last year because they're scared that's going to provide momentum to a left.

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And so our bill, which then says the pre -born are persons created in the image of God and deserve the same protections under the law that you and I deserve, that freaked them out even more.

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And so it's a war of words right now, of language and messaging and truth. And of course, tactics and faith in God.

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So a few things here. One, I don't think the September, pushing it back to September 13th and I don't,

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I can't speak to the representatives motives. I can only speak to my personal experience, what happens in our state

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Capitol in Michigan. But September 13th probably was not, you know, just a date pulled out of the hat.

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They probably wanted to see what was happening with that proposal. Like I mentioned at the top of the show and then go, okay, let's be reactionary and see if that's something we want to do or don't want to do.

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That would just be my suspicion to, this is what frustrates me. And, and Mike, I want to get your input on this because you're writing a book about this right now.

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And I think it's going to be published very soon. You know, this is the issue we have with the pro -life community that I have with the pro -life community.

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I don't want to put that guys on you, that on you, but you might agree. So they say, we don't, we believe abortion is murder, but if a woman or a man takes part in that murder, we don't think there should be any type of criminal charges.

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So they don't believe either. They don't believe it's murder or they just believe that murder is, you can have exceptions for murder for women because what they don't know what they're doing.

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They don't know that the baby's alive. I would argue that the maternal instinct and the mother knows exactly what that is inside of them and exactly what they're doing when they abort it.

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And if someone's going to murder another person, then there should be some type of criminal charges.

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So this is where I get very frustrated with the pro -life movement when they combat a very specific bill like you guys have, that is very clear.

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It is just, it is biblical, it is godly, and it's ultimately what they say they stand for.

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And then they come back and they kill a bill, not only kill it, but then obviously, like you said, work against it. Mike, has that been your experience to working with Austin and even as you write this book and kind of seeing the two camps that should be working together in some aspects, kind of warring against each other?

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Yeah, so that has absolutely been my experience, even before I started connecting with Austin, I would go and talk to legislators and these guys would say,

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I'm the most pro -life of pro -life people. There's one legislator that I met with, a senator that gave me seven minutes of his time before he asked me to leave, before he was rushing out.

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So that's all that topic was worth, huh? Seven minutes, the murder of preborn. Seven minutes of his time, I drove an hour and a half to talk to the guy for seven minutes, as if he's some high and mighty dude.

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And at that point, I was a pastor of a congregation. We had just gotten our resolution in the state of Ohio through the

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Southern Baptist in Ohio that said that we were calling for immediate abolition of abortion without exception or compromise.

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And so I'm representing, though it's not every single church in Ohio within the

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Southern Baptist Convention there, but I was representing a large number of churches that signed on to a resolution that was saying, this is what we want.

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And the guy gave me seven minutes. Now, it is unquestionably an issue of moral compromise.

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And I've even went back and forth with individuals that others might think are conservative

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Christian commentators on issues of abortion. And these individuals,

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I'm tempted to even say the name, but it wouldn't be helpful. So these individuals are just constantly making excuses as to why they're working with Ohio Right to Life and Center for Christian Virtues.

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By name, these groups would seem like, oh, well, it's a no brainer. But when you see what they're doing and then right after all this stuff happened, and we can get into that a little bit with Lizzie, to see individuals just double down, yeah,

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I'm going to I'm going to work with these people. And even after confronted, like just bounce around and just some weird stuff happens when money starts being waved in front of your face.

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And the problem with the pro -life industrial complex, as I've been studying and writing the book, and it is very close to being published, it's that they've set up a machine.

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And Jeff Durbin was saying this really well. They set up a machine that is not designed to end.

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Yes. It's completely based on that heresy that the woman is only ever a victim.

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And the problem with that, as you began to mention, is we never actually called them to repentance if they're a victim.

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If you're a victim, what do you have to repent for? Right. And so we are stealing the gospel from these women who have abortions.

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Every Thursday we've been going to the Planned Parenthood here in Fort Myers, Cape Coral area.

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And what we have seen is, one, the numbers by like within three hours, we're looking at 30 to 40 women that have had abortions, that are getting abortions.

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And so there's this narrative that things are slowing down even here. And then you look in Ohio, in Cuyahoga Falls, there's the

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Northeast Ohio Women's Clinic. They're doing those numbers right there. And you rarely have

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Christians even standing out there. And sometimes I just wish we could get legislators to go with us and actually see what's happening on the ground.

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But the problem is, is that we're bringing in legislators that are not, they're politicians, they're not statesmen.

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They could care less about the people. It's about special interests. They're letting the special interests drive their policymaking and those things versus principle.

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And so we need men of principle to step into these positions, men that can't be bought off.

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And that's increasingly what I'm convicted of as we wrap up this book.

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Yeah. So I think we just had Austin drop off there, but we'll get him back. But let's continue the conversation here,

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Mike. You know, what I've seen, too, is we have we have politicians that are apathetic.

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As soon as you as soon as they go like this and go, it's going to be really hard if you don't have that money to rerun for election and do all the good things that you want to do.

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And plus, you're attached to things like pro -life Ohio or Christian virtues, whatever.

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And the general voter doesn't know that this is going on behind the scenes because when a six week or heartbeat bill or something like that comes out, they go, well, this is the best we could get because of the

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Democrats. That's that's what the Republicans will say when, in fact, that isn't the best they could get. Any state that has a majority like Michigan did just two years ago before Governor Whitmer flipped everything, we had a

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Republican Senate, Republican House and a Republican governor. And we still could not get any type of abortion bill, personhood bill up to the governor to sign.

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We got one heartbeat bill to the desk and he vetoed it as a Republican governor. So the issue that we're seeing, and I'm sure you're experiencing this as well, too, is one, it's self -interest.

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So once elected, how hard is it going to be for me to rerun if I'm bucking the system and not getting the lobbyist dollars?

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And I have 98 percent of the pro -life air quotes organizations against me because I'm actually standing for something biblical, godly and just and full of justice, then that's much harder for me to win again and to hold and to keep this power, this position or influence or whatever it is.

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And I've seen that time and time again. I'm wondering when you're talking to an elected official and you say, you know, if this was slavery we were talking about and we said we have a bill that totally abolishes slavery or let's say it's pedophilia, it totally abolishes pedophilia.

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And the other bill says, look, you're allowed to perform acts of pedophilia on small children up to the age of six.

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But after that, you know, you can't do it or you're allowed to hold a slave up until the age of 13, let's say, to the age of accountability.

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But then after that, yeah, totally outlawed. Which bill would you say is more godly, moral and which one would you endorse?

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And every time I've had that conversation with an elected official, they would say, well, of course, total abolition of slavery and pedophilia and these things.

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Well, then why not total abolition of abortion? And also we punish the pedophile.

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We punish the slave owner. We will hold and we should have criminal charges against men or women that support or assist in the supporting of killing unborn children.

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So have you ever had any answers to that question of, oh, we got

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Austin back here to any answers to that question of show, show me a biblical reason or a conservative reason or whatever, not to support an abolition bill.

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Either one of you guys can actually answer. Most of these guys, when you start using scripture there,

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I'm trying to use the right word, they're wholly uneducated and biblically illiterate.

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A lot of these guys in the state house are operating based off of weak education, weak discipleship.

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And so they're just it's the next thing that sounds best to them or the thing that they're being pressured to do.

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And in Ohio specifically, and I know Austin will agree with me on this, we've we've even in talking to the house president or the

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Senate president, we've seen that they have that on lock. They do not want to end abortion in the state of Ohio as it is right now.

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The legislators that we have spoken with are there's no sense of urgency. There is there is no true conviction that says, let's end this now.

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Yeah, because the excuses are gone. They have a super majority. They're not they they find every excuse.

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It's just not the right time. Or, yeah, I wish we could do that, but we can't. Or I have to do this.

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This is one that we heard. I have to do what the speaker of the house tells me to do. If you want to know what the majority of the whip's job is, apparently it's just to do everything that the speaker of the house tells them to do and not to have a brain.

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Yeah, we had a couple of Republicans House representatives get kicked out of the caucus because they wouldn't sign a pledge saying we will vote with leadership and the speaker about six years ago.

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And they said on every issue because they want that voting block and they kicked them out of the caucus. And I went, wow, that's really free thinking

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Republicans there. When you just say you'll do what I say, Austin, what do you think about this?

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Because I want to touch on this because I want to expose some of this, too. And I know this is going to sound like I'm just railing against the pro -life industry, but I've been frustrated with it for more than 15 years when the

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Lord saved me in my mid 20s, said the sinner's prayer at seven, saved in my mid 20s when

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I had a changed heart. And I started looking into that and I was still involved in politics. I kept going, why isn't there anyone that just won't stand up for what is right?

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I didn't even know what abolition was in my mid 20s. I just knew it needed to be totally outlawed. What's this incremental thing?

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What's this supporting the system? So for either one of you guys, I would say the pro -life community has created this huge albatross of a system, which includes pregnancy centers and grants and lobbying and buildings and foundations and boards and all these people.

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You know, I have a friend that makes six figures being executive director of one of these places and then has speaking fees and can go talk about how we're going to end abortion.

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And but then when a bill comes, everyone freaks out and goes, well, wait a minute, we can't we can't put a you know, we can't put a spoke in the wheel of the system because we've built it in every everyone has jobs.

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They're making money. They're lobbying all these different things. Can you speak to that system a little bit?

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I don't know. We just got Austin back. He's jumping in and out here. So I don't know, Austin, if you heard that question, but if you did speak to the pro -life system that's been built up over the last 50 years and how it's an albatross that really no one wants to tear down, it seems like.

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Yeah, well, I would say at the end of the day, there's no biblical accountability for the people at the top of these organizations.

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The in general, churches have shirked the responsibility to end abortion off to people who don't believe in God.

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I mean, frankly, the people on the boards of these organizations do not put their faith in Christ alone.

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And he is the only one who will crush abortion under his heel. And so when you have people who have no accountability before elders, they're not in submission to anyone else.

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They're they're getting as they're getting their pro -life reputation to raise.

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They're also getting their political reputation to raise. I know the president of Ohio Right to Life considers himself to be like a lobbying savant who,

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I mean, he speaks with the governor directly now. It didn't start that way. And compromise we have seen just utterly destroys men.

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As soon as you let it creep in a little bit, it will just rip you apart the rest of your life until you repent and get under biblical accountability.

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And so the whole effort done without Christ, it is wrought with sin and temptation and it will always go astray.

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Let me ask either one of you in the bill that you originally introduced. And then, Mike, it looked like you wanted to say something there.

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But in the bill you originally introduced, was there any exception for criminal charges against men or women that participated in either the assisting or the action of killing a pre -born human?

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Was there did you have any or was it just look at if an abortion takes place? Yeah, there's going to be criminal charges.

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Is that what they were kind of scared of? Was there I mean, I just wanted to know a little bit. I didn't get to read the full bill.

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So I was just wondering if you could touch on that. Yeah. So what the bill basically in the simplest terms was advocating for was that we apply.

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We apply equally the same laws that that would protect a baby in the womb to protect or that would protect a person outside the womb to protect the baby inside the womb.

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Sorry, I got distracted. Because somebody walking by, apparently there's some ADD issues going on there. But the issue is, is that they've overcomplicated it.

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It really is just let's take the homicide code and say, you know what, because baby in the womb from fertilization, which is the real point of conception, the baby in the womb from fertilization is a full image bearer of God.

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It's a person. And so that baby deserves the equal protection of the laws.

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Now, there's other issues we'll have to address down the road. But in the simplest terms, like we just we're just saying, let's use equal weights and measures.

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Let's say that, you know, let's let our confession actually have the rubber meet the road in action and and and apply the same protections to the preborn baby.

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It's that simple. And yet these guys will make every excuse under the book to say, yeah, we can't do that.

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And so what that does legally is that it says anybody who commits prenatal homicide or assist in prenatal homicide is going to be tried through due process.

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And the law and their their peers will determine what their what their charges end up being in regards to how long they're going to spend time in jail or or whatever the punishment is.

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We can't control that at this point. All we're saying is the law needs to be just. Yeah.

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Which needs to treat the baby in the womb equally, which isn't a new concept. We have laws on the books right now.

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If you go out and you shoot a pregnant woman in the stomach and both die, you're charged with double homicide.

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I don't understand why this is so hard for pro lifers to understand. We we already in in some of the codified laws in this country, in most states, we recognize the preborn as a preborn human and you can be charged with homicide.

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So so for me, this is something where I feel like you guys are facing the same things that I faced in the past where they're jumping through mental gymnastics, jumping through hoops to try to not support something that is just very clear and plain, equal protection under the law, under the federal constitution, under the general welfare clause that says a person has rights.

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It's that simple. And we have a lot in the pro -life movement that will look right back at you and go, yeah, but and then they make a whole list of arguments and excuses and then continue to work for heartbeat bills and and all these different bills that just incrementally still allow millions of abortions nationally to take place, which is which is very frustrating for me.

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And once again, I have friends in the pro -life movement. I had them for many, many years and many of them are are don't even understand everything we're talking about here.

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They send a couple bucks in a year. They'll go, you know, maybe write their senator or representative.

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They'll go vote on a certain issue when they get that flyer in the mail. They'll vote for a certain representative because pro -life such and such supports them.

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Heartbeat of whatever supports them. But they don't know really what's really going on in in the state capitals like we three do.

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And that's not the you know, I'm not saying that condescendingly, I'm saying I've just been in it. You guys have been in it.

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And we have a really real war going on here within the pro -life community that almost seems it's antithetical to exactly what they're doing.

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They don't want to end anything. But I didn't want to spend too much more time on that. Could either you guys also talk about how how the representative that was going to introduce that bill, how he kind of backed out of that, what his reason was, and then also to why is he holding the bill?

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Why actively hold it then? I mean, I think I know why, because powerful people in certain groups with a lot of money said, yeah, we don't want to fight this right now.

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Hold on to it and make them go write a whole nother bill and go through the whole process again to get it on to the you know, out of even onto the floor, out of a commission.

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So what's his reason for holding on to it except to be detrimental to your to your cause?

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I'll let Austin answer that here, here in a second, just one more thing on what you were saying, because I think this is crucial to understanding why we're being so adamant in calling out the pro -life industrial complex, the big machine.

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The issue is they they're always saying that we take what we can get. That's that's the argument.

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We take what we can get. And you guys are unrealistic because you're wanting to do this. But here's the thing. If you're a

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Christian, scripture doesn't give you a liberty. To weigh the life of one baby over another.

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That's that's called ageism. And it's using what we call unequal weights and measures or it's completely distorting the doctrine of equal standards of justice, which which is the doctrine that even helps us to understand the gospel that we believe.

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We cannot understand the substitutionary atonement without understanding that that there's a doctrine of equal standards of justice.

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God did not withhold his wrath from his son because it was his son. We would not have forgiveness of sins if we we understood the substitutionary atonement in the way that the pro -life movement wants us to understand justice.

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Yeah. And that is the problem. They have distorted the very character of God in its evil.

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It's wicked. We don't have liberty to do opposite of what God has asked us to do.

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In fact, when we do that, he says it is an abomination. He couldn't use stronger terms. Yeah.

26:50

OK, I'll let let Austin speak. Sorry, bro. Yes. The representative holding the bill.

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Yeah. Yeah. With Representative Bildeen holding the bill right now, his comment to us on why he wouldn't give it back was it will be a public disaster if it gets out what was in this bill.

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And we're like, well, we're going to tell everybody anyways. So, you know, good luck with hiding the truth.

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It's going to come out. And yes, it came out in a very public way. The director of communications of Ohio Right to Life has been fired.

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Our bill is in the news. It's going to be covered by ABC News in Ohio. We're still doing the rally at the statehouse the day he said he would introduce it, except now we're just going to call out everybody publicly and provide evidence of everything that happened.

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It's still going to happen. And so this is what we are called to do as Christians, though. Regardless of the results, we are called to expose the works of darkness there and bring them to light and trust

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God to do what he will with that. And the problem here is they make these justifications in their mind of I'm doing some actions to save more lives in the long road.

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But but right now, they don't have the perspective that every day they're holding on to this bill.

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Fifty seven babies a day are dying in Ohio. The reported ones are dying in these abortion clinics. And if you really have that in perspective, like I would truly give my life to introduce that bill,

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I would die just to introduce that. And and that's the perspective these legislators need to have of like,

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I will give everything I have to file this bill. I don't care what it does to my family reputation, my salary, even my life itself.

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This is what the office is created for. This is the office that God made was for man to be able to protect other man through this form of civil government and the magistrate role.

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And they they don't have that perspective there. It's all calculated political. And yeah, it it like I said, compromise destroys men and some of them are

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Christian men. They at least make those professions of faith that I have no reason to doubt for, you know, their theology.

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But at some point in their life, they have compromised something and it has eaten them away. Yeah. Oh, no, you're you're absolutely right.

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And the only reason I'm I keep tagging on this is because I want listeners to understand this isn't like a one off.

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Oh, just this this representative at the state capitol, you know, is compromised or, you know, in Bill Dean's case, a spineless, dishonest, useless public servant.

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And I'll say that publicly and feel free to call me, Bill, if you want to discuss it. I've met with people like you. I know people like you.

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You can say you're a Christian or not, but you have no principle. You don't know what godly justice is.

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You're spineless and you bend over at the first moment of any type of pushback when it comes to making it easier for you to run for reelection.

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So now that's out of the way. And and I speak very firmly about that because I'm judging you on your actions.

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OK, you might be the nicest dad and the nicest husband and you might go to church every week, but but you, sir, have no principle.

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So we don't need you as a representative or a state senator. What we need is godly men and women who understand why the civil governments have been instituted by God, that is to protect the righteous and to bring justice to evildoers.

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And you are doing neither. So that's everywhere. That's in Michigan, Ohio. That's in Oklahoma.

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That's all these places, Republican and Democrat. And it's very frustrating when it's Republican, when they say with their mouth that they are, air quote, pro -life and then do absolutely nothing about it.

30:46

So as we wrap this up here, guys, what can we can we talk about the rally a little bit to let people know if they want to come down there and let us know what we're doing in the future for Ohio?

31:01

Yeah, rally still going on September 13th. Join us out at the Ohio State House, the

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Capitol Building, 11 a .m. We're going to rally for equal protection there. We're going to have people coming from Indiana as well and all around Ohio.

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And we're going to tell the story about what happened. We're going to have speakers up there talking about what is equal protection and why are the people in this building not doing it?

31:24

We're going to have people come up there and and say they're going to be running for office because of what they've seen happen in there.

31:30

So we're getting new people to come in and and we're hoping this really transforms

31:35

Ohio. We've seen it happen in other states when this pro -life establishment steps out too far and reveals themselves, where they can no longer do these deals in the back rooms.

31:46

And now it's in the public news and the pro -life donors see what in the world was my money going to?

31:52

That's what wakes people up. And us three have been in the inner circles for a while. And the pro -life establishment is having trouble keeping this under wraps now.

32:02

It's exploding out of every state. And it's only a matter of time until we see real change and real

32:09

Christian men taking the offices from those people through the democratic process and reformation begins.

32:16

And very quickly, Mike, before you jump in, what is the House district for Bill Dean? And do we have any type of formidable primary challenger for him?

32:32

Yeah, it's District 71 out near Dayton, Ohio. And as we've heard, his son plans to take his seat in the coming election in the next few months.

32:41

Nepotism on top of no principles. Awesome. This is what we need in politics. Sorry, Mike, do you have any final words for us?

32:49

Yeah, so as I'm thinking about the rally, there's also something else people need to know. So the

32:55

Center for Christian Virtues, now I'm going to use some of their names, the Center for Christian Virtues was lobbying behind the scenes not to have the bill sponsored.

33:04

That's already been public. But they also decided that it was going to be a good idea to have a worship service an hour before the rally that had nothing to do with ours.

33:16

They're just going to they're just going to have their worship service. And I think what's happening, and I'm just going to expose it right now, is that they're trying to shift the conversation from actual equal protection to some compromised version of what they call equal protection.

33:29

And so mark my words, that's the next move by organizations like Created Equal, the

33:35

Center for Christian Virtue, Ohio Right to Life is they're going to they're probably going to take the bill that we we're going to submit and they're going to distort it and somewhere in that bill, if you're careful to read it, it will have some exclusion for the life of the mother or some get off Scott free thing.

33:51

It's not actually going to have equal protection and equal justice, but they'll call it that.

33:57

They're going to try to change the language. So Christians, be wise and discerning because now it's getting more tricky because they're challenged.

34:05

They can no longer ignore us, as Austin was saying. And so, yeah, I just wanted to mention on that and and then in regards like for for us like here for me here, we're still we're nearing the end of this editing phase of getting things and then it's just finding the right publisher and prayerfully doing so so that we can get get it out to as many people as we can.

34:32

There are a lot of platforms that we could go with for expedited purposes, but a lot of those platforms like Amazon actually fund abortion.

34:40

Yeah. And so it would be kind of ridiculous for us to use Amazon for for any publishing stuff.

34:46

But so we're we're prayerfully navigating that, trying to do our research, make sure that we're supporting good brothers and sisters in Christ and some other alternatives.

34:54

Absolutely. Austin, you got any final words for us as we close this out? Just that I encourage everybody listening to the show, call into Bill Dean's office.

35:06

And even if you live out of state, say my state saw what happened here and we are disappointed in you.

35:12

Urge him to do the right thing. Urge him to fight for equal protection for the pre -born, because the entire nation saw this story.

35:19

And there are babies in every single state still being murdered daily. And we all need to collectively cry out for justice and also take action for justice.

35:29

Yeah. Well, Austin, Mike, thank you so much for being on here. We have Ohio represented, Florida represented,

35:35

Michigan represented. So we have three different states here with three guys that I think are all passionate about ending abortion, the complete abolition of it.

35:43

I appreciate all the hard work that you guys do and taking time out to come on the podcast, let the listeners know what's going on, what they can do.

35:51

I'll make sure we link up all your socials, all the contact, just like last time. So that way, if anyone wants to follow you and follow what you're doing and kind of keep keep track of what's going on, they can do that.

36:01

And once again, appreciate your time, guys. Thanks, brother.

36:07

Thank you. God bless you. Yeah, guys, thanks so much for listening to another episode of Dead Men Walking podcast. Make sure that you check us out on DMW podcast.

36:15

You can learn a little bit more about the show, a little more about us and what we got coming up. We've got some conferences coming up at the in October.

36:23

I will be a speaker on a panel at the Christ the Word Church men's conference.

36:30

We're traveling down to Kentucky to go to Fight Laugh Feast from the Creation Museum and do some live broadcasting there.

36:36

And then that following coming into February, hosting and kind of moderating a debate and the

36:43

Why Calvinism documentary that Jerry Rice is Jeffrey Rice, excuse me, is putting out in Tullahoma, Tennessee.

36:51

So we'll be there as well. So we'll keep you updated on that. Big thanks to these guys for taking time out of that.

36:57

And, you know, I don't you're going to hear more from them, I think, too. I know Mike has his book coming out. We're going to bring him back on when that is published so we can review that and take a look at it.

37:06

I think it's very important as always, guys. Remember, the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever.

37:12

God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Dead Men Walking podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at dead men walking podcast at Gmail dot com.