On Woke Trial for Woke-Free Church by Jeff Kliewer

Eureka Baptist Church

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May 4, 2024

00:05: Well, thank you all for having me it is truly an honor to be here Thank you to John and Nancy for hosting and in your home
00:12: Seth a true friend brother My brother John Laskin is here in the building. He was with me in Fullerton, California when
00:19: The culmination of the story I'm about to tell So thank you brother for being here once again so I was recently at a large
00:29: Christian University and they had a Guest speaker. He was a very famous well -known sports figure and he told some wonderful stories about Integrity he had the chance to buy a cheat sheet, but he didn't do it.
00:44: He got inside information about a sneak play that another team was going to pull but he didn't use the information and the message that he gave was all about having integrity and We loved what he had to say
00:59: In fact, many of the students were deeply impacted by what he taught but there was just sort of a bad taste in my mouth
01:07: About what I listened to and the problem I had was it seemed that every single story he told
01:14: Left him as the hero He was the moral hero of every story and it started to get a little bit distasteful
01:22: So when Seth asked me to come tell my story, I thought oh, man I would much rather preach a passage of Scripture.
01:30: I don't want to come across as I did something courageous and Because honestly, I was fumbling and bumbling and stumbling like I'll probably do here again today.
01:40: I did my best I felt called to do it But I also erred in many ways.
01:46: I'm sure there were probably times when my rhetoric got too strong the language that I used Were at times maybe over -the -top
01:55: My attitude was probably not perfect all the time But what's worse than a hero story where you make yourself the hero of every story is a victim narrative
02:06: Where whoa is me, you know, I'm such a victim that can be equally nauseating probably worse, right?
02:14: Gag me with a spoon. And in fact, that's like what the whole social justice movement is about It's a victim narrative of how the world and everything is against you
02:24: So I want to guard against that and the scripture that came to mind As I was thinking about this talk today
02:33: Comes from the book of Galatians and it's chapter 6 verse 1 Brothers if anyone is caught in any transgression
02:42: You who are spiritual? Should restore him in a spirit of gentleness Keep watch on yourself lest you to be tempted and I tried when
02:55: I so I came into the free church I wasn't born and raised like Seth has roots back to his great -grandparents I was an inner -city missionary in Philadelphia for 12 years
03:04: But I had moved my family out of one of the worst neighborhoods in America the Kensington section of Philly.
03:09: You can watch Videos on it, but I didn't think it was a good thing to be raising my kids there. So we moved to Mount Laurel one day
03:17: I went for a jog in the neighborhood and Ran past this Mount Laurel evangelical free church and John was there at the time
03:25: I touched the sign as I ran by and I started praying God bless this church and in that moment
03:31: I got a text message that said would you ever be interested in preaching at the Mount Laurel evangelical free church?
03:38: And I said I'm literally praying for that church right now And so I accepted it and that's how
03:44: I got called to become a free church pastor. And when I got there in 2016, I Thought well, this is great.
03:50: I investigated investigate I did my due diligence and realized the free church is solid man.
03:56: Look at this statement of faith. I'm a hundred percent on board with this So I was then into a new movement when in 2018 the wokeness started to come in like a flood and This verse
04:11: Galatians 6 1 came to mind I Need to be gentle. I need to approach this the right way and as I talked to my district superintendent and other people
04:21: Involved in the movement. I didn't feel like the move the the needle was moving at all
04:26: There was no correction happening. So there is also a time to take on a more prophetic voice
04:33: You see this in in Elijah you see Paul with some strong rhetoric in Galatians 512
04:39: John the Baptist Brutus vipers Jesus and Matthew 23 there's a time to take on a more prophetic role and to speak strongly and So there came a point where I felt it was time to do that Now when did wokeness come into the evangelical free
04:57: Church of America? It probably started much earlier than 2018 There was probably a drift in that direction
05:03: But as has been mentioned in 2018 the theology conference was about race and culture
05:10: And this is where it was introduced like Exactly as CRT is defined.
05:16: Here's a definition of wokeness. It's kind of hard to pin down every system every structure and our churches were built on the backs of black and brown people
05:30: Because their skin was not white. It's every system every structure and every means it's everywhere
05:39: There's a victim class here and that is black and brown people and those who are white are the oppressor group
05:46: But one thing I would like you to notice about that definition Every system every structure is built on the backs of black and brown people because their skin is not white
05:56: Is that you really can't prove that it even says and our churches How can you prove that each church is built on the black on the backs of black and brown people?
06:06: It's there's no due process to that charge. It's something that is very difficult to investigate
06:14: So I heard this come out in 2018 and that was actually a direct quote from Jarvis Williams From Southern Seminary.
06:22: Thanks a lot Russell for sending us this this teaching Russell was opposing it there and We were taught this and then after Jarvis Williams introduced that you had a
06:34: Ted's professor named Doug Sweeney list all of those who were victims supposedly of the police force from Michael Brown and however many others and The police force was impugned as being a system a structure that is racist in this country
06:52: After that, we had John Perkins Talking about capitalism being the problem and how the state of Washington which is more
07:00: Socialistic is the better model than the capitalistic system that he has some friends who are capitalists and then finally
07:07: Carl Ellis Spoke on what is called reading while black which is that?
07:13: Theology is inexorably influenced by race and they say that the reason that there are no
07:20: White liberation theologies or white theology at the Christian bookstore is
07:26: That all theology is white and so black liberation theology and all of this is a response to that Well 2018, this is
07:35: I'm a new pastor in the movement and I realize that this is a severe incursion against the church
07:44: So I'm very concerned But it wasn't till three years later That one of the key leaders of the movement tried to address
07:54: Critical race theory and in that speech, this is March 11th, 2021
08:01: He says he begins to cite the people that that were helpful in his mind
08:08: But one of them was Sam Albury who is same -sex attracted and that's kind of the essence of his ministry
08:14: Another was Rebecca McLaughlin same problem. Another was von Roberts same problem
08:21: Carl Ellis reading while black Samuel Perry and others
08:28: Andrew Whitehead were approvingly quoted and I got the sense that even though he's opposing critical race theory
08:37: He's not really understanding who it is. That's pushing critical race theory later on Rebecca McLaughlin Who I just mentioned would literally argue in the good faith debates that woke church is not a stepping stone to theological compromise and Yet she was held up as the one to refute critical race theory
08:58: So this had been a building problem in my mind that critical race theory is indeed being taught at the free church
09:06: I was also very disturbed by this leaders teaching in March of 2021 that He said
09:16: We don't have any rights or to quote. I don't have any rights They're Christ's and yet how many times have we heard over the course of the last year?
09:26: That's my right I'm gonna I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. Who's the government?
09:32: No government's going to tell me what to do. We're going to snub our nose. Nobody's going to tell me to wear a mask and What this leader was saying is that the churches who spoke this way and refused to obey government lockdown orders and masking requirements
09:51: We're really not understanding that we've relinquished our rights to Christ and we have no individual rights
09:59: Which of course is the category error because well, whereas we are submitted to the
10:04: Lordship of Christ It's also true that Christ has given us individual rights
10:10: That we need to stand upon it was very troubling to me because we were in New Jersey and our governor
10:17: Phil Murphy had all of the churches locked down for 15 months and we were open under threat of Who knows what if we were in Canada?
10:26: It was imprisonment in New Jersey. It would have likely been many fines and Yet the key leader is chastising the pastors who are staying open in a context like that because we were asserting our rights
10:39: So understand that when I wrote when I wrote woke free church, it was after many provocations
10:47: I wrote the book and I think I tried to speak graciously Tried to show love towards the leaders of the free church
10:56: Affirming the great things that the free church stands for and expressing love But here's why I say that the response was really a woke response
11:05: So I was on woke trial for woke free church Wokeness does not believe in biblical justice
11:14: It is a modification of justice Social justice is a modification of justice and it doesn't involve due process
11:23: So the way my book was handled by the free church was actually a perfect example of wokeness the first thing that happened was a letter was sent from our district superintendent to the
11:38: Eastern District pastors Nothing had been said to me personally that they didn't like my book, but rather the letter said that Jeff Wrote woke free church two months after his ordination a couple of months after his ordination, which wasn't true
11:56: That Jeff intended to defame the key leaders of the movement, which wasn't true But interestingly enough it said that Jeff did not
12:06: Practice Matthew 18 Which was ironic because they weren't practicing
12:11: Matthew 18 and addressing me, but Seth thank you for the article you wrote on truth script it's called weaponizing
12:18: Matthew 18 and What was happening here was it was an attempt to silence me or cancel me or get people not to listen to the book by accusing me of violating
12:28: Matthew 18 now as the elders pastor John and the other elders of Cornerstone Church prayed about woke free church before it was ever launched we felt this was a
12:37: Galatians 2 issue as Peter rebuked as Paul rebuked
12:42: Peter in the presence of all He addressed a public teaching publicly
12:48: Wokeness and social justice and critical race theory Jarvis Williams teachings all of these things were introduced publicly and so it required a public confrontation and It was prophetic it was a rebuke, but it was very direct speech
13:03: It wasn't intended to harm the people but to address the issue so that we could correct course a couple months later.
13:11: I went to the district conference and I heard another key leader who now is the board chairman for the
13:17: EFCA his name is Bill right now I guess we're naming names, so I guess I'll go all in I Think I've done that before anyway when
13:24: John when you uh when you had me on the podcast Thank you for that because that allowed me to get this information out as well
13:33: Bill Rydell stood up in front of the the Eastern District, and he said that You have progressives on the left, and you have conservatives on the right and each are trying to be biblical biblically faithful The conservatives love life
13:48: And we're trying to uphold life in the image of God in a baby in the womb and it's right and biblical to do that But for some who are left -leaning abortion might be a needed option
14:01: Because of certain societal factors, and so what we need in the church is political diversity ideological diversity
14:10: You should have he's in Washington DC So you should have some Democrat staffers in your church next to Republican staffers and The idea is diversity is a good thing no longer
14:24: Just talking about the color of skin which is sort of the diversity equity inclusion movement But now extending out to ideological diversity and I listened to this teaching and my spirit was was provoked and Afterwards he asked for questions, and he took a question -and -answer time and I sat there with my hand up and After a couple other people were were called out
14:48: I was the third and I said at what point do we not accept the legitimacy of a political party?
14:56: the Nazi Party Murdered six million people under their party platform well, it was really
15:04: Adolf Hitler who did that and The Nazis of course are easy to condemn, but how about a party that in their platform is?
15:14: advocating for the killing of children and 60 million babies have been aborted since Roe vs.
15:21: Wade Is there ever a point like what would be the line? Where we would separate from a political party and say it's no longer a
15:30: Christian thing to do to support this political party or work as a staffer to promote what they do
15:39: Well how would you think he answered that he said are you
15:44: Jeff? Like Yeah I'm Jeff.
15:49: He said well. I tried to write you I said I never got an email And he said well actually I was copied on a thread and we'll talk about this later
15:56: Your your question is completely against the tenor of this presentation, and we're gonna move on And I said alright, so I sat down I thought that was the end of it until I got a phone call a couple weeks later
16:07: That he had gone to the Board of Ministerial standing and said that Jeff created quite a disturbance at the
16:13: Eastern District Conference And see here's what wokeness does what rather than standing face -to -face man -to -man and addressing an issue
16:24: Rather than addressing it listen truth does not mind being questioned if You have truth you can stand and defend what you believe
16:31: Proverbs 1817 one man seems right until another comes and examines him
16:36: Questions, let's see if this teaching is actually biblical will it stand the test
16:43: Well instead of this he went to the Board of Ministerial standing and reported that I've now Caused a disturbance by asking question
16:51: And he still upheld this this when I talked to him over zoom that I had created a disturbance
16:57: And he said I was yelling and pointing fingers and and all of these things which the witnesses say never happened And I said how about you release the tape because you recorded that session and I've asked that for two years now
17:08: How about we see the tape of how I asked that question in any case? Bombs begins to view me now as like this wrecking ball this this villain who's against the denomination
17:19: When in fact I am trying to bring the denomination back to biblical Center to what the
17:25: Bible teaches So now the next the third of five moments in in what's really been a woke trial
17:36: It's what I call my my diet of worms I I emailed
17:43: Kevin comp line, and I said hey Bill Rydell is telling bombs that I'm creating quite a disturbance, but really
17:50: I didn't do that That's that's a libel And I only found out about it because they accidentally sent the zoom link to somebody who's kind of a woke free pastor who heard him say it
17:59: Kevin comp line said I'll set up a meeting and He did he sent some District Board of Ministerial standing members to Mount Laurel, New Jersey to talk with me to listen to what
18:11: I have to say And it wasn't all district bombs people. It was the superintendent.
18:16: It was a guy from another area of retired pastor and So I bought dad's deli had sandwiches and all these things and I was ready
18:25: I had my book woke free church, and I laid them out at all the seats at the table these were five men
18:32: And I was excited that we were going to finally talk about the issues of what's going on in the free church
18:37: But it was nothing of the sort When the men came in one of them was
18:44: Whereas we had met two hours privately before and he was very friendly. I I really thought he was a great guy
18:50: He turned into an attack dog He just laid into me about writing this book
18:59: Of all the men who were there some of them admitted they had never read woke free church So I don't know what they were there to examine if they hadn't read it
19:06: But most tellingly of all I asked that pastor John Laskin could sit in the room He's my associate pastor, and he's been free church guy since 99 and ordained with with the licensing
19:18: Through the free church, and they said no it'll just be us. Thank you And it wasn't recorded either
19:25: I Had no idea that this would be later considered a trial that I was actually on trial
19:31: But for these few hours they laid into me I tried to speak I tried to open the book in fact
19:37: I opened the book and showed the places where I affirm one of the key leaders Greg Strand About how he did such a great job in writing
19:44: The statement of faith and how he helped me on my ordination thesis and how he's been a great leader in our movement however when he platformed these men like Williams and Ellis and Sweeney and Perkins and others
20:01: That he was leading us in a woke direction, and he needs to repent and turn back I showed page numbers, and I said guys show me in the book where I've misrepresented that I misquote anybody at any point
20:14: Show me where my attitude was wrong, and they refused to open the book and refused to look inside So in my diet of worms it was not a trial based on truth
20:28: Jesus and John 18 23 answers if what I said is wrong Bear witness about the wrong, but what if but what if what
20:37: I said is right? Why do you strike me? And the question was what did
20:43: I write or what have I said that was wrong? Open and show me a quote, and I will repent if I if I have aired
20:51: No witness no recording and so it goes on the fourth of five moments trial by zoom
21:01: Deuteronomy 19 17 to 18 says then both parties to the dispute shall appear before the
21:08: Lord Before the priests and the judges who are in the office in those days Then judges shall inquire diligently about Two three months after my diet of worms.
21:22: I got a letter from the free church and It charged it was a letter of accusation and official charges that I was now charged with Christian nationalism
21:34: Okay, no definition given to what that was Attitude I can understand where they got that maybe
21:42: I I have at times been Self -righteous or Arrogant in some way or overstated my case or used too strong of language at some point although I don't know where I've done that I I might have done that the third charge was
21:59: Influence and I thought yeah, I'm trying to influence like like the way salt influences meat or light influences the visibility in the room
22:12: Pastors are trying to influence and I am trying to influence but evidently they felt like well because it's been a difficult
22:18: Road and the influence has been negative to some some of that agenda that this was a charge and The last was misrepresentation
22:28: And so from the time I got this letter until my trial by zoom about six months later.
22:35: I Kept emailing the board Asking for evidence of what they said
22:41: Misrepresentation, please. Give me one page number of anything. I've said One quotation of a misrepresentation of anybody so that I can repent if that's the case
22:52: Attitude show me how I should have behaved differently. Tell me what you mean by influence. Tell me what you mean by Christian nationalism
23:00: Well, they answered about Christian nationalism that that I supposedly claimed to be a Christian nationalist in my diet of worms which
23:08: I never had done and So I emailed the person who was there and said can you clarify this and he just didn't answer the email
23:17: So I emailed one of the other witnesses Also from Sparta, New Jersey. I said you were there
23:23: Can you chime in here that I didn't claim to be a Christian nationalist. He refused to answer the email
23:30: Months go by and eventually they'll say okay, we'll take that one off the table. Well, thank you
23:36: That one's off the table, but the other Charges remained Just before the trial
23:43: They asked me to fly out to Minneapolis to meet with with the Board of Ministerial Standing and I said, yes
23:49: Thank you. This is what I've wanted all along The scripture says even the custom of the Romans acts 25 verse 16 is to meet face -to -face.
23:57: I would love to come sit I've wanted to talk no one's been willing to talk about the actual issues all along And then finally a couple days later they said actually we're going to rescind that offer and Instead you will appear by zoom in three days
24:15: For the meeting of bombs or else we will find you guilty of these charges And so I said, all right,
24:22: I guess it's zoom or nothing. I'll do this zoom call and We did it was a 90 -minute scolding
24:30: The guy who was sort of the diversity equity inclusion Officer of the of the movement who would write so many of the articles about trips to Montgomery and all these things
24:39: His name was Alejandro Mendes he lectured me for about 15 minutes about why his woke book was better than my woke free book and Okay, but here's another principle.
24:52: The first was truth doesn't mind being questioned The second is time and truth walk hand in hand
24:59: Time and truth walk hand in hand This particular person who had lectured me would later be removed from the movement without us being told why we just got an email
25:10: That he's no longer with the free church, which had been the case with the previous diversity equity inclusion
25:16: Officer Alvin Sanders who wrote bridging the diversity gap that book was filled with critical race theory
25:22: But he didn't last long in the free church and neither did this other because Wokeness doesn't stand the test of time
25:29: Who was it Russell that you said that it destroys whatever it touches it brings division.
25:34: It brings conflict. Well It had been said by this bombs group that examined me that pastor
25:43: Jeff His family must be in disarray His church must be in disarray
25:50: Because of his extreme stubborn stubborn arrogance and his burgeoning form of racism
25:56: Everything must be falling apart The truth of the matter as John could let you know is the church has never been thriving more more people coming to faith and being baptized and discipled my family is thriving by God's blessing in every way and Yet they stoop to that level of attacking my family and attacking the church
26:18: In order to discredit When in total I was given the evidence against me for this trial it was 44 words
26:29: The bombs chair emailed me when he finally answered. He said alright. Here's the evidence against you
26:36: Christian nationalism your book attitude The meeting with the pastors and your book they didn't even write in sentences
26:45: It was just sentence fragments without any Evidence of the charges that were against me 2nd
26:52: Corinthians 13 1 Paul offered very different ways of prosecuting cases and charges every charge must be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses
27:08: So this trial was was none of that The evidence was not offered and my defense was against 44 words of disjointed
27:19: English So needless to say this bombs group who examined me over zoom
27:27: After saying that I would be allowed to come and then reneging on that offer they found me guilty of attitude and influence and misrepresentation
27:38: So I was looking around in the bylaws of the free church saying is this really how the free church was organized
27:44: Is it an authoritarian top -down situation now, or wasn't this always a? Congregationalist movement and I found in the bylaws of the
27:54: EFCA that the Board of Ministerial standing is Accountable to the conference to the the people the delegates of the free church, and so I appealed
28:03: This ruling to the conference and that brings me to the last stage of this controversy which gets even more dramatic and strange
28:14: They do grant that I would be able to go before the national conference in Fullerton, California Just a
28:21: June of 2023 So John and I fly out to Fullerton I'm hoping for an opportunity for to be heard.
28:33: I Three minutes Which I was willing to take but I wasn't willing to use that to Try to establish a case because it didn't seem like a possible thing to do
28:47: When the Fullerton trial unfolded it went like this the bombs leader read this statement against me and He fumbled and stumbled and the moderator had to correct some things that he said
29:01: But finally the charge was leveled and I was given my time to speak and I'll share with with you in a minute what
29:07: I said there but Deuteronomy chapter 21 verse 19 says
29:15: That a trial should be brought to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives
29:26: Now obviously we're not Israel This isn't a theocracy and so the application of Old Testament law to New Testament To a
29:36: New Testament age is a little bit different the Westminster Confession talks about understanding the general equity of the law and how each
29:44: Civil or ceremonial law has an has an application that informs us how we are to live
29:51: Even if it's not a direct one -to -one correspondence There's a general equity there's there's something that we learn from it
30:01: One of the things that Deuteronomy chapter 21 verse 19 would teach us is that if you want a character witness you should go to the elders of the person in his city and ask those people
30:13: But the first witness to stand up against me in Fullerton, California was a megachurch pastor and I call this particular moment the college roommate.
30:25: I never knew I had Because he stood up as if he was my old college roommate and he told the room that I have known
30:33: Jeff a long time And he had quite a cadence in his voice.
30:38: He's a very good communicator extremely he had a he had a The ability to control his emotions and he sounded very somber.
30:47: I've known him a long time in truth We had spoken twice Once at the district conference
30:54: He had given a teaching and I had come up afterwards and asked him his about his advice About a family in our church that had gone kind of kovat crazy and they were mad about us not masking and carrying on that way and This leader had told me you know what you should just fall on your sword do your best to you know
31:15: Admit you're wrong and and and and take take it that way and I had just thanked him for his advice
31:22: Appreciated the conversation and that was it. It was like just nothing The other conversation was about a three -hour conversation at his office where we talked about race and culture and all kinds of Issues that way after which he thanked me.
31:37: He said oh, I didn't even realize how long we had been talking We have emails afterwards appreciating the conversation
31:43: And I thought that we were friends in that sense There's a very important verse Psalm 55 21
31:51: His speech was smooth as butter yet war was in his heart
31:58: His words were softer than oil yet. They were drawn swords This man speaking at Fullerton Talked about me as if we were age -old friends, and he said but you know as much as it breaks my heart
32:12: I warned him once I warned him twice, and then I had to practice Titus chapter 3 Have nothing more to do with him be sure he is warped and sinful and self -condemned
32:22: I Had to distance myself because of this arrogance. He doesn't listen. He's unwilling and You could hear the moans in the room, and I appreciate having these faces look at me that are like sympathizing
32:36: Because it was the exact opposite one year ago almost to the month was last
32:42: June The room just moved with what this man said and I could tell this room was lost
32:51: Many other witnesses from from bombs and others got up and spoke that way and then they they called it
32:57: So now what did I say? well the night before When the man told me the the moderator told me you're gonna get three minutes to speak
33:07: I Stayed up most of the night praying and I knew the Lord would give me words in the moment The Holy Spirit will teach you when you're brought before Kings.
33:15: He'll teach you what to say So I'm crafting ideas in my mind. I'm making notes in my phone
33:21: What do I say and John and I prayed together and talked about how? listen you can do your best to defend yourself, or you can maintain this more prophetic posture and I decided to come in in profit mode and And not to cause harm but thinking it's ridiculous to try to defend myself in three minutes
33:45: I'm gonna tell him what I think and so here's what I said. I said the sisters of perpetual indulgence are a completely blasphemous
34:00: Christ hating group Who? dance naked on crosses to mock
34:07: Christianity and the Los Angeles Dodgers have honored them and Given them a platform and given them this this recognition just a couple weeks ago
34:20: And when I got to this conference The pastor moderating here who was the leader from Fullerton was wearing a
34:28: Los Angeles Dodgers outfit The Sunday before and he invited all the pastors.
34:33: Hey, let's go to the Los Angeles Dodgers game well, all of the conservatives at this point are boycotting the
34:39: Dodgers and These this is not a word -for -word what I said, but I'm just doing my best to recall it from recollection here
34:47: And I said listen, I think it's totally free if a pastor wants to go to the
34:52: Dodgers game They can do that and he even made a joke. He said you want to know two things
34:58: You know what Jesus and the Dodgers have in common? They're both higher than the angels
35:05: And the joke was met, you know the Anaheim Angels and I was just groaning thinking, you know
35:11: Not at this time, right? So here's what I said You're free to go.
35:16: It's a free movement. If somebody's conviction is they can go to the game. That's good And if it's not your conviction and you think that Christian should stand against it, that's good, too
35:27: But when the leader of this movement is standing before us before us trying to get us all to go to the
35:32: Dodgers game You're trying to pull the movement in a certain direction and it's away from the fundamentalists
35:38: I think I use your language here. I said it seems that the free church is always willing to nuance or Pull to the left, but if you have someone like me to the right of you you punch, right?
35:54: What's happening here at the free church, this is yet another example with the Dodgers of Pulling the movement left and Then I said with regard to my trial there.
36:07: There was no due process There was no effort to even treat me as a brother Where is the love for a brother if you think
36:14: I've fallen into sin and remember we began with Galatians 6 1 if you think My book was transgression Be careful that you yourself are not tempted because you're not teach you're not treating me by the law of love and So this was my appeal and sadly the final result was kind of telling 411 people voted
36:38: To condemn to uphold the stripping of my ordination. My ordination was lost
36:46: Well, it's held in trust for disciplinary reasons and 29 men Voted in support of me for 11 to 29 93 percent against So I could look at that in one of two ways one.
37:04: It could be that the people who like to go to that particular conference Might be tending more towards the social justice side in the first place
37:14: Or it could be that the movement is is gone the free church has just gone woke and anybody who tries to fight against it is
37:24: You know beating their head against the wall you could look at it like that My belief is that the average free church free church person in Iowa and Ames, Iowa or in Nebraska or in Texas or in New Jersey or in Pennsylvania is not woke
37:41: I Don't believe that they are and I don't believe that they want the woke leadership
37:47: Certain ones who are woke to pull the movement in that direction That's how
37:53: I I'm looking at it. And I think the evidence is bearing out that even though I Kind of got tarred and feathered.
38:00: I Believe that the free church actually is correcting course away from the woke movement
38:07: The diversity equity inclusion guy, he's gone. It doesn't seem that he's been replaced they wrote a series of affirmations and denials in which they
38:18: Denied critical race theory denied wokeness Denied social justice, which is language that they used to treasure however, it was with some equivocation and the language was not as as strong as I would have liked it to been however
38:35: It was at least moving in the right direction The articles about trips to Montgomery and all of the the woke agenda coming from the free church office
38:46: Minneapolis used to be an open faucet Now it's more like a drip from The same faucet.
38:57: I'm not sure what the new president is going to do in the free church, but I'll tell you this
39:04: He was one of two men who came up to me after that trial and encouraged me.
39:09: His name is Carlton Harris the old president is out now Carlton Harris is in and He came up to me and I we spoke for probably 20 minutes we're both
39:19: Dallas seminary guys I have hope that it will be a new day of small beginnings for the free church,
39:26: I Don't think that the problem is gone. Why would it be there hasn't really been repentance?
39:34: No one's ever owned that what was introduced in 2018 was was sinfully wrong.
39:44: I Probably shouldn't have gone with Carl Ellis, but there hasn't been repentance for introducing diversity equity inclusion into the movement
39:56: But sometimes these battles are messy Sometimes the victory isn't just obvious.
40:03: It's a slug. It's it's a long March, it's a long battle and you get beat up and you have to keep fighting and keep fighting
40:13: So, I don't know what the future of the free church will be but I'm gonna tell you right now I'm actually very hopeful that we've turned the corner against wokeness.
40:22: I don't know what's to come But one of the things I'd like to say and I obviously I know they're all listening right now if not live, but they'll a lot of the leaders will listen later and hear this and They're trying to decide right now if they're gonna throw cornerstone church out too because their pastor is such a problem
40:40: We're from cornerstone in New Jersey I would like to say to them now is the time to repent of The woke social justice movement that overtook us in 2018
40:55: Now is the time to start? upholding biblical justice and Listen, we have to love our enemies that I'm preaching to myself as much as to each of you
41:08: One of the things that happens when you can see I think what happened is as soon as my book was published Certain people decided that I was an enemy and Therefore did not deserve due process
41:20: But the Bible says love your enemies and in Galatians chapter 5 verse 14.
41:26: It says that The law is summed up in a word to love your neighbor
41:36: Love and law go together due process is a part of love and these principles of biblical justice
41:43: Deuteronomy 19 2nd Corinthians 13 1 That must be given to an enemy as well as to a friend
41:51: Have I become your enemy by telling you the truth Paul said? Well, if I have if I've become an enemy of the free church by speaking the truth
42:02: It's still incumbent on the free church to treat me with love and to give me due process in a trial in the same way
42:09: I need to be loving towards the free church and Forgiving and willing to turn the other cheek and say all right all this stuff that's happened
42:18: Let's move forward. Let's repent. Let's confess and let's move forward together
42:24: And I would bet there's a pastor here Who you've had someone in your church?
42:32: Stand against the movement Or you will Somebody just won't be on board with your new direction
42:40: Something that you say or do and your temptation will be to just say you know What this guy is the problem and you bring the hammer on him?
42:49: Guess what that person who opposes you or that woman in the church who's saying things that are disagreeable?
42:57: They deserve due process which is love biblical justice So what happened to the free church in my case,
43:06: I believe is that They didn't execute Due process against me in trying me because they had already found me guilty in their minds they didn't even feel the need to do it and Every one of us as pastors and as leaders and churches are prone to the same kind of thinking
43:27: But if I could bring any word today, it would be Galatians chapter 6 verse 1 brothers if anyone is caught in any transgression
43:34: You who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness Keep watch on yourself lest you to be tempted
43:44: Let's not fall into that same kind of trap. Let's be willing to show grace
43:50: Let's be willing to forgive Let's be willing to move forward and let's give due process
43:57: To even those who oppose us because biblical justice are the principles we've heard today
44:07: Proverbs 24 11 says rescue those who are being taken away to death to stand for the unborn
44:17: To stand for life, that's a biblical justice issue. We have to do that Biblical justice will be the path forward for the free church.
44:30: Can I pray? Father thank you so much for this opportunity. Lord. I've held on to your word for years in Isaiah 54
44:40: Where it says no weapon formed against you shall prosper Lord I've clung to that.
44:47: I believe that That you would give me opportunity To be vindicated in a sense to refute every tongue that rises against you
44:59: I've clung to the scripture Lord. I want to thank you for this church Eureka Baptist Church and for pastor
45:04: Seth because when he heard about this case he investigated the evidence and He listened to even members of bombs and sat down and heard both sides
45:15: Proverbs 18 17 and then came to a just conclusion And I thank you for a brother like that.
45:20: I thank you for this opportunity to give my side of the story Lord I give you glory for that But Lord whatever happens to me whether my ordination is taken away forever whether our church is kicked out of the free church
45:36: Whatever happens Lord God I want to pray in Jesus name for the free church for the good and flourishing the future of the
45:45: Evangelical free church of America. I pray Lord that you would bless this movement. I pray that you would empower
45:54: Carlton Harris To be a man of God who stands upon biblical justice that everything he does would be by the
46:02: Word of God Give him strength Lord to say what needs to be said and if there are things that he needs to learn
46:08: Lord I pray that you would teach him teach him your word and help him to do what's right and Lord, I pray for unity that you would help us now to preserve the unity of the
46:20: Spirit in the bond of peace that moving Forward there would be a new day Lord we pray that the free church would remain focused on the gospel
46:32: But also biblical justice That the free church would take a strong loud stand for the unborn that the free church would stand for little children who would be mutilated at the hands of progressive leftists
46:51: That the free church would stand for capitalist Economics and not the socialism that's being introduced on the college campuses
46:59: That the free church would be a light in a dark culture Lord. Let the free church be salt that preserves this culture
47:08: Lord we pray even for those that have considered me an enemy and even people that I've named here
47:14: Lord I pray for their good. I pray that you would bless them and not curse them that you would grant them repentance and Lord bring us all to you the unity of the