September 7, 2020 Show with Phil Johnson on “Can Critical Race Theory Be Reconciled With Scripture?”

The Radio Show Introduction and Scripture-Based Framing

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. And now here's your host Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon. Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,.

Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Labor Day on this seventh day of September 2020.

And this is Monday, September 7th, and I am thrilled to have back one of my favorite returning guests. In fact, I'm still very confident he holds the title for the most interviewed guest in the history of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio since we first launched in 2005.

His name is Phil Johnson and he's the executive director of the media ministry of Dr. John MacArthur, pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, and world-renowned Bible teacher and author and teacher on television and radio.

And the Grace to You ministry is one of the most valuable ministries in the media because it is certainly one that has not caved into the pressure of being politically correct and to softening the truth to spare the feelings of the masses.

And I thank God for Grace to You ministries, and I thank God for not only Dr. John MacArthur, but also Phil Johnson, our guest today. We are going to be discussing, Can Critical Race Theory be Reconciled with Scripture?

And it's my honor and privilege to have you back again on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Phil Johnson.

Hey, thanks for having me, Chris.

Why the Planned Update on Grace Community Church in California Was Withheld

And if you could, before we go into the topic at hand and some even some additional information about Grace to You for the sake of our Christian listeners who are perhaps very new Christians and haven't heard of Grace to You, I think you would have to be a very new Christian not to have heard of Grace to You, and even some of those that are not Christians at all who listen to the show.

But before we do that, if you could let our listeners know why we are not discussing a topic that we originally were going to at least discuss in part today, and that is we were going to give an update on John MacArthur versus the state of California and all of the things that are going on at the hands of the governor and other authorities in California because of Grace Community Church's refusal to shut down their services or comply with other mandates that seem to be an intrusion on Christian freedom and liberty to worship as we please.

But if you could, let us know why we're not going to be talking about that.

Yeah, because the case is still in litigation, so the legal team have asked all of us who are connected with Grace Church not to make talk about why and how and what's going on. The last hearing was on Friday, and the judge said he would take the case under advisement and make his ruling sometime this week.

So we expect, of course, no earlier than tomorrow because today is a holiday, the judge won't be there. So we're just waiting for the next ruling, and I'm sure people will be able to read about it in the news or see it even on Twitter as soon as the judge issues it.

And we might even see Dr. MacArthur on one of the FOX programs or elsewhere, as he has been a more frequent guest than ever there discussing these things, if very briefly, but he's still been given a voice on there.

And we will be sure to give you updates as we can. Well, I'll let our listeners know, for the sake of those who are probably a very tiny percentage in our audience who are unfamiliar with Grace To You Ministries, let our listeners know about that.

Yeah, Grace To You is the media ministry of John MacArthur. Our goal is to expand the scope of his teaching ministry using mass media as widely as possible. So we are on radio, on the internet, pretty much everywhere media goes, there's even a television program, Grace To You, and just basically broadcasting John MacArthur's teaching ministry as it comes.

From the pulpit of Grace Community. And if anybody wants to have more information about Grace To You and where they can either watch the television program or hear the radio program or anything about the books written by Dr. John MacArthur and other valuable resources provided by Dr. MacArthur and Grace To You and Grace Community Church of Sun Valley, California, go to gty .org, gty .org, which stands for Grace To You.

Critical Race Theory, Neo-Marxism, and the Woke Movement

And one of the reasons I know that you wanted to discuss this critical race theory, we have addressed this before on the show, and we've addressed all things that come under the umbrella of the woke movement and the Black Lives Matter movement and other Marxist movements that have infiltrated even allegedly conservative and allegedly reformed Christian churches and denominations and fellowships.

But one of the reasons is that our president has pleasantly surprised many folks who are opposed to these movements and who consider them dangerous by something that he recently did. If you could.

Pick up where I left off there. Yeah, on Friday, actually, the president, through the office, called the Office of Budget and Management, I think, issued a memo where he has canceled funding for all of the diversity and inclusion training, which is basically propaganda of critical race theory to all government employees.

The government's been doing that for about a decade. It started by an executive order of Barack Obama, and they paid millions, literally multiple millions every year of taxpayer dollars to indoctrinate people in critical race theory, which is basically a kind of neo-Marxist approach to identity politics.

In my opinion, it is the poisonous foundation under which all of the current unrest and rioting has more or less been fomented. So Trump put an end to it on Friday, and he says that government agencies, and by the way, they were doing these training sessions for the FBI, every government agency, and from now on, government agencies won't be able to have those sorts of training sessions.

Well, praise God, and you have said that it's quite a shame and quite a blemish on the church and quite an embarrassment that this president of ours, president of the United States, Donald Trump, who I have a strong feeling you would agree with me in lacking confidence that he is a truly regenerate person, and yet he has stepped up to the plate and had the courage to do something that many leaders in theological circles that you and I would travel in have not had the.

Courage to do. Right. In fact, you contrast this move on Friday, cancelling the indoctrination of CRT from government employees, contrast that with what occurred at the Southern Baptist Convention National Meeting two years ago in 2019, where they passed a resolution, infamous resolution number nine, declaring critical race theory a helpful analytical tool, is the way they said it.

And of course, you can see the influence of that among Southern Baptist leaders in what we refer to sometimes as Big Eva, the large organizations like Together for the Gospel and the Gospel Coalition, which have shifted their focus over the past five years so that now they talk really more about this and other issues that grow out of that, frankly, than they do with gospel truth among evangelicals.

More wisdom. And why don't you give a little bit more detail on exactly what this critical race theory is? Right. Critical race theory is an expression of, it's a neo-Marxist view in particular. Marxism looked at economic disparity, and critical race theory has taken the Marxist theory about economic disparities and applied it to race.

And so everything now, you see this on the nightly news, everything is a racial issue. And if you disagree with certain policies, whether they actually have anything to do with race or not, you can be labeled a white supremacist or a racist or whatever.

For people who have never heard of critical race theory or they're interested in finding out what it is, I'll recommend the Wikipedia article. I don't always recommend Wikipedia, but I think it's helpful to get an overview of something like this.

And it's a pretty thorough discussion of critical race theory, what's entailed in it, and with lots of quotes from people who promote and propagate ideas borrowed from critical race theory. But you've heard of intersectionality, that's another term that gets thrown around a lot these days.

Intersectionality is the notion that there are various ways to be oppressed, levels of oppression, and they're different for different people, but it always has to do with the identity group. It's not so much an individual thing as it is the group you belong to that defines how oppressed you are.

So that if you're a white person, you could be the poorest person living in your car, and yet critical race theory says you benefit from white privilege, and you need to check your privilege. You are a racist, you will always be a racist.

So these ideas have become quite common, and you're expected to sort of make a public confession of your white privilege and renounce it. It becomes almost a religion. In fact, I wrote an article a few months ago, Wokeism is a Religion, or Wokeism is a Hateful Religion, was the title of it.

It's at my blog, you can do a Google search for that title, Wokeism is a Hateful Religion, where I pointed out that this type of thinking that grows out of critical race theory, its own views of confession, kneeling and reciting a prescribed confession, whether it has its own rituals, even its own hymnology, become a kind of religion.

And that's one of the issues that leads to, we're not going to do this kind of indoctrination for government employees, because it really in effect becomes a kind of government establishment of a.

Religious creed. You mentioned moments ago, things that you consider to be a part, or not just you, but have been generally been a part of what has been nicknamed the Big Eva. Can you.

Repeat those groups that would be under that umbrella? I think I mentioned the Gospel Coalition together for the Gospel. Those are two big ones. And it's interesting because the history of those two organizations in particular goes back about probably 15 years now.

They were founded in the refute, were grown up for the most part looking for a little more drawn back to evangelism and all that. Others were drawn to the notion of social justice, and it was a hodgepodge of a whole lot of different ideas, and they wanted to define as true evangelicalism, what the term originally meant.

Most people believe that it centers on the gospel of everything. In the 20th century, I think evangelicalism had very different people think evangelicalism is. And the movement itself became so broad, and so shallow, and so devoid of any real doctrinal conviction, that when the emerging church came along, they just wanted to dismantle that whole system.

But it ended up being an attack on pretty much every principle of orthodoxy as well. And so the emerging church movement faded away and dissolved within a decade, as I predicted it would at the time. I wrote many blog posts about it, and criticizing what they were doing, what they were saying, how they were attacking the authority of Scripture and the historic Christian faith.

And the movement died, as was predictable. But the thing that has survived is some of the ideas that they threw around. And the main one is this whole idea of social justice, that the gospel isn't complete with the story of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as an atonement for sin.

But they say the other half of the gospel is social justice, and the church needs to be fighting for social justice. And it draws the church into all sorts of, you know, political realms. And usually, younger Christians, I think, are more sympathetic to leftist notions.

And so the idea of critical race theory is very appealing to someone who thinks this secular notion of social justice is part and parcel of the gospel. And what happened, and what has happened in really five short years' time, is that these concerns about race and justice and all that have begun to overwhelm and cloud the gospel message itself.

So these two organizations, the Emerging Church Movement, because they saw the Emerging Church Movement beginning to assault even the doctrine of atonement, the idea that Christ died as a substitute for sinners.

That was anathema to most in the Emerging Church Movement. And the founders of Gospel Coalition and Together for the Gospel wanted to defend the whole notion of substitutionary atonement, which is a great goal.

I was supportive of both movements when they began. But when they took up the issue of social justice, the same thing has begun to happen in those two groups as happened with the Emerging Church Movement.

They've moved off message. And we refer to that as Big Evo, because that is, I think, the biggest segment of the visible evangelical movement. We think if you don't go along with the party line there, if he calls you a racist, it really doesn't matter.

Yeah, we have to be clear that we are not vilifying everybody whose name is attached.

To either the Gospel Coalition or Together for the Gospel, who may not even agree with the critical race theory or the woke movement or the Black Lives Matter movement at all. But for some reason, they find a useful voice being a part of the internet media and the conferences that they offer.

Obviously, it's a debatable thing whether they should be doing that. But I even know men who have vilified friends of mine for being parts of other things that occasionally will have some bad apples involved in them.

And how dare can that person be a part of this or that conference and that kind of thing. And those are things that good.

Men will always debate about until we're in heaven, I think. Right, and I'm glad you said that, because to be clear, I'm not talking about individual people here. I've specifically refrained from mentioning anyone's name on that.

But I am talking about the direction those movements are going, the message that comes from the organization, what they put on the web, what they put in their tweets. It's begun to be more and more focused on social justice, and less and less on the message of Christ Himself.

I think that's an indisputable fact. And which is not to say, as you said, that everyone connected with those organizations... Now, what do you think is.

The reason why men who are, it seems on the surface at least, to be theologically orthodox, to be even theologically affirming the same doctrines of sovereign grace that you and I affirm and that Dr. MacArthur affirms, and that many people, or if not all of those who signed the paper on social justice, which is a very strong critique of the social justice movement, and obviously connected with that the woke and Black Lives Matter movements.

Why is it that some of these men, even those that may have been on the same platform with you at conferences, where you have been sitting there listening to them speaking, going, amen, amen, and enjoying fellowship with them, why on earth are they endorsing these things?

Yeah, you know, I'm reluctant to speculate as to motives, but I think there are a lot of genuinely good people who think somehow, because they haven't completed the issue carefully enough, or studied it deeply enough, they think that because the word expression, social justice, has the word justice in it, and it's made that argument repeatedly.

Why does it seem to penetrate? I don't know. So that we've been to quell the American now that there was 15 years ago. Things aren't getting better because of all this talk about so much as the dominant narrative.

You don't have to prove your case logically anymore. You just have to have enough people repeating the narrative. And so we've got a generation of people who really haven't... Isn't one of the reasons why this is strange,.

That biblically solid men, theologically sound and faithful men, are endorsing these things, especially those who have a passion to oppose racism, is that these very movements are endorsing racism itself.

It's amazing to me how anyone could be blind to the very painfully and palpably obvious fact that the folks who are leading these movements are promoting racism. They're promoting the idea of judging people by the color of their skin, by the lack of their melanin content, by the lightness of their appearance, rather than the content of their character, as from the famous speech by Martin Luther King Jr., who longed for a day when men were judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

It's just amazing to me how anyone could not see that this is obviously, and I say that in all capital letters, racism that they are.

Promoting. Yeah, but the fact that you see that, Chris, suggests that you haven't been thoroughly indoctrinated with critical race theory. One of the principal tenets of the idea that you cannot be a racist if you are a member of the oppressed minorities.

So it only goes one way. It's described as, even though by any reasonable definition of racism, anything that what race, systemic racism. Well, we have to go to our first break right now. If anybody wants to.

Join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Obviously, if you are opposed to the critical race theory and all connected movements, you might be fearful of losing your job by speaking out publicly and identifying yourself. Well, so we will grant your request to remain anonymous, but feel free to remain anonymous if it's personal or private, but please, if it's not, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

We'd also like to hear from anybody who might wholeheartedly and aggressively agree with critical race theory. They think that we're off the wall, we're wrong, we're racist. Well, feel free to send in a question.

The Claim That Critical Race Theory Functions Like a Religion

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Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com to place your order. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today is Phil Johnson, the Executive Director of John MacArthur's Media Ministry.

Grace to you. We are talking about the theme, Can Critical Race Theory Be Reconciled with the Bible? If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Please, as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Phil, I don't remember if this was something we discussed prior to the show or something you said on the air today, but even if you did mention it on the air, if you could go into more detail about how this discussion reflects on Luke 16, verse 8, the sons of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light.

Some connection to our president, Donald Trump, making a wiser and more biblically faithful stance against this stuff than many of our so-called Christian leaders.

Yeah, I think his order to terminate this sort of training in government agencies shows a great deal of wisdom. You can see, I think, as most people should be able to, that all of the rhetoric about him and all the code words that you keep hearing these days has done nothing to quell racial division.

It's done everything to make ethnic hostilities worse and worse and worse. You see that every night on the news, in the riots that are taking place in American cities. I think he realizes the correct worldview that is at the foundation of this kind of violence, and it's a destructive worldview.

It's actually moral insanity at its root, and if he can see that, it amazes me that evangelical leaders, so many evangelical leaders, sons of this world, are wiser in their generation than the church and evangelical church services.

So the evangelical movement has been, you know, he let us look like a couple of years old, lecturing a group of white. Shocking things she says along the way is this, and this is an exact quote, white people are born through not being human.

She says white people are subhuman, basically, and the case of it, as you said earlier, that is racism. But critical race theory says, no, if that comes from there, and she belongs, she's a woman, no one who's brought into critical race theory will dare tell her.

Well, that sounds like it comes right out of.

Louis Farrakhan's handbook, because, and believe me, I'm not making this up, Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam cult, which is not even true Islam, they are guilty of shirk, according to true Muslims, because they believe God is a black man, and to believe that Allah has any partners, which would be any mixture of God and man at all, is the worst sin you could ever commit.

But putting that aside, the Nation of Islam believes that the white man, the white race, was created by a mad scientist in a laboratory, and I'm not making that up.

So, you know, some of the contemporary critical race theorists have actually said things that make Louis Farrakhan sound like a moderate. Oh, this woman is a critic, wow.

You want to give us some examples of that?

Well, she also, in the same breath, practically, says that white people are demonic, that we're raised and taught with demonic views and demonic tendency. So stuff like that, that's very common, and her white audiences are expected to confess the sin and, you know, agree with her.

If you disagree, you will be labeled a racist yourself.

Racism, Evangelical Compromise, and the Need for Discernment

Let's go to some of our listener questions before we have to go to the midway break. In fact, I'll just go to one of these questions before the midway break. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, even though you have connected these woke and related movements with atheism and Marxism, obviously those who are Christian among the supporters of these movements claim that the broader evangelical world has ignored or fallen short from addressing the theme of how sinful and wicked and damnable racism truly is.

So how do you respond to those who say, we are merely trying to address an issue that seems to be ignored or that many pretend doesn't exist, that people are thinking of themselves more highly than they ought, which is forbidden by scripture, and that they are indeed racist in looking down upon those of darker skin colors?

How do you respond, Phil, to those who are claiming that they're just trying to follow the example of Jesus in identifying bigotry and racial hatred as sin, and then they're trying to do something about it?

Well, I think every sane bigotry, actual racism, is sin. To hate someone because of the color of his skin, that is sin. I think it's a twisting of history to say that evangelicals have overwhelmingly been guilty of racism or pro-slavery or whatever.

Slavery, the first major opposition to slavery in the world, came from William Wilberforce, often evangelical, and in general have always opposed the oppression of people based on skin color or ethnic background or whatever.

There have been people in evangelical society, and identity politics itself, or whatever, identity politics a twisted reading of history of the luminaries who fought against slavery.

Amen. And we will be going to our midway break right now, and please be patient with us folks, because this is the longer than normal break in our show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM, in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show so they can air their own public service announcements and other announcements that localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida.

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Don't go away, we'll be right back with Phil Johnson. Chris Aronson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

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