Pastor Powerfully Presents the Gospel to a Mormon

Apologia Utah

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People about that faith that changes how you live your day -to -day life like how does how does your faith in Jesus?

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Translate to to just even everyday stuff Do you feel

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I? Guess what I'm trying to say is you know do you? Are you are you in prayer with with God?

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Are you you know seeking him? Are you reading your Bible? Are you reading you know the the

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Book of Mormon or anything like that or yeah? Okay Okay You might understand you might kind of know why we're out here.

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We we love our LDS neighbors So you're probably seeing we're handing out literature. We're we're born -again believers believers of Jesus Christ we're we're

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Christians and we see some fundamental differences between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity that would concern us so much of a kind of the eternal proportions and so things that change fundamentals of the gospel that might create another one because 2nd

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Corinthians chapter 11 Says that some will come Preaching a different Jesus bring a different gospel of a different spirit, and then you know

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John talks about in his epistle that there's going to be those who talk about another

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Jesus they bring another Jesus and Teach with the one contrary to the one that's been preached

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Paul talks about in Galatians 1 that that's a reality so That was a warning 2 ,000 years ago, so what keeps you know the faith that Jesus and the

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Apostles started from going off the deep end and Becoming whatever we want it to be right

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So we would we would see that that's the Word of God and There's been some deviations, and you know

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I want to ask you some questions about what you think about this deviations like Having to work for salvation rather than having

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Once Jesus saves us we do works. We do works

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Because of a changed heart, we don't do works to try to earn a higher place with God You know if I can't go to the celestial level if I can't be with God Then it might as well be hell the the next levels

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Celestial terrestrial if I'm not in the presence of God the Bible says that that's hell actually that that's not good, so You know there's that there's the fact that like I even have on our

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Tract here, what does it take to become a God? You know it's not really talked about in Sunday school that much anymore or even in general conference sessions

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But one of the biggest Turning points for Mormonism was when many of the prophets started to pontificate that we could become gods not not that we will simply be like our

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Savior and do things like him and and Try to be holy as he is holy, but specifically deification

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Changing our nature changing your nature as a human and becoming in the divine nature of God Being able to possess what

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Elohim has so there's that you know the Bible says In so many verses even in the

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Shema and Deuteronomy it says Hero Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one God says in Isaiah all throughout

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Isaiah He says I am the only God he says before me there was no

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God form neither shall there be after me There are no other gods. He says in another verse.

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I know not one even he Elohim has no Recollection no knowledge of another

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God and yet Prophets and Apostles have said we can be we can become gods and that there are an infinite

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Regression a past past Gods gods who have come before Elohim There's gonna be many gods after Elohim that we're all on this line of godhood and that would make it so that Mormonism Then would argue they have more there's more gods

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Than Hinduism would believe which Hinduism if you know believes in tons of gods So so those are kind of the things that we're concerned about and then of course the other one is just the nature of Jesus There's just so many things in the

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Bible that say that Jesus was never a created being he's not the spirit brother of Lucifer He was not an intelligence that was waiting to be ordered and formed

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He has been the Son of God as God deity from all eternity into eternity and The amazing thing about the gospel is that he came to this earth as God took on flesh

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Became totally human and and he is totally God all at the same time.

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It's amazing. There's no mixture. No fusion Jesus is totally God totally man And that way he was able to represent you and me on the cross humans on the cross

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To be our mediator to be our eternal high priest in the order of Melchizedek The priest who would never die he lives on forever and he's the perfect sacrifice

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He did what the blood of bulls and goats could never do so he died once and that Takes care of all the sins of his children of the children of God.

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So So what I'm guess I'm saying is there's LDS doctrine that Dictates that he is not

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Uncreated that he is created that he came after What was created that he was an agent of creation?

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But that would go against things like John 1 in Colossians 1 that says, you know All things were created by him

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So he's outside of all things that word all in the in the New Testament in the Greek Means means all like Jesus is outside of all things that are created.

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Therefore. He's uncreated. He wasn't the first created being so I'm going off like crazy

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But you you see what I'm getting at is just if we if we say that there's more than one

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God and we can become gods if we say that Jesus was once created in the spirit brother of Lucifer and Then that changes the power that he has to be able to atone for sins on the cross and then the third thing is is what

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I talked about the beginning was earning and working and Doing what only

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Jesus can do you see? Jesus came down here because we couldn't work for our salvation and so it's totally his work

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It's not a combination of my work and his work and that's what gets us to heaven Solely his work and once he saves me

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Then that makes me want to do good works that changes my heart changes what I want to do So, well,

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I don't know. What do you think about all that? I just said that was a lot Like are you concerned at all about contradictions or past Failed prophecies of the

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Mormon Church presidents who said things and they never came true You know controversies different things like anything

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Concerning that Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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I appreciate that Yeah, and that's why I was just wondering and starting out with you know, what does that look like for you, you know

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Do you feel a sense of? Assurance that you will be with him forever

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Do you are you confident that your sins have been paid for and you're gonna be with him you would die to die tomorrow

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You know, you'll be with the Savior Okay Commit suicide.

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I remember as a kid. I used to think well my grandma told this but it's like She told you they go to hell or something

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Yeah There's way more mercy and understanding that Jesus has

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Every single person that none of us could like understand Understand the level of mercy and grace that he has

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I would agree with that statement. Do you do you believe that? There are people who go to hell

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Do you I do yeah, okay That's good because a lot of LDS people actually don't believe in a in a hell

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They believe you know that maybe apostate Mormons will go to outer darkness they believe that maybe those who

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Have our evil may go to the lowest level of heaven. I don't believe in multiple levels of heaven

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But you know that they would believe that so So, yeah, I mean obviously There are people in this world

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You know, for instance in Israel, you've seen that on the news Hamas and yeah, and and the the torturing of children and and a woman a woman who was in Israel from Germany from what

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I understand they took her body and they Stripped her and put her on the back of a car and her body was twisted in ways

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That are not natural. I haven't looked into it more but it they think maybe she was even dead

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So, I mean just like atrocities. I mean just great murders. I mean obviously You know, even

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Jesus says that Judas was the son of perdition he was destined for hell in that sense for the betrayal of the

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Son of Man, but So yeah, I mean God wants justice

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Because if you think about it If you think about it Think about like a judge in a small town

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Okay And in this small town

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It's found out that well, there's been some murders of women and They finally found the guy who did it and He he raped and murdered three women and the whole small town is there at the courthouse and the man is standing there and And it's clear all the evidence is clear in fact he confessed to it and if the judge if the judge was like look

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I See that you committed murder. I see that you committed rape But I'm feeling generous today

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I'm gonna let you go then There'd be public outcry and he if he go if he slams the gavel down says not guilty

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The people would go nuts, right? They would go crazy. They would say this is injustice. This is this is an atrocity

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This is a perversion of justice How dare you sit in that position in the judgment seat and say that this man should walk free?

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He needs condemned and so in the same way But much higher

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God is Perfect in a way that we can't even comprehend. He is so impeccably perfect and righteous and holy he is far bigger and greater and Beyond our understanding than we can even fully grasp

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He's given us his word. We understand who he is how we can be saved, but there's depths of God that We just can't get it as finite beings and but he's so righteous and so Since God is good and holy and just he must punish everyone

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Who sins and because we sin against an eternal being?

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He says that the demands of justice Are such that the punishment will be

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Again will be of the same duration against the

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The eternality in nature of the one whom they sinned against so against him

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So the punishment is eternal the Bible demonstrates Jesus says is a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth where the worm dies not the fire never dies the place he says in Revelation where there will be torment forever and ever and ever and so The crazy thing is is that in Genesis chapter 3

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When our When our ancestors Adam and Eve sinned in the garden it says in Romans chapter 5 that Adam was our representative there that he says now all in Adam died.

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We're all sons and daughters of Adam and and so Adam represented us in that sin the curse of the fall came upon this whole world

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Sickness death disease Brokenness evil sin came into the world at that point in Genesis 3

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But there was a glimpse of a promise if you if you go to it in your Bible Genesis chapter 3

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It's called it's called According to scholars the proto evangelium, which simply means the first gospel.

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It says that one is going to come Who is of the seed of the woman who will crush the head of the serpent the serpent will bruise his heel but he the the the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent delivering the death blow to the serpent to Satan and That we understand was, you know thousands of years before Jesus came on the scene

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But ever since then there was promises and promises and prophecies that Jesus was coming

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Jesus was coming because ever since that moment Ever since Adam sinned and sin came into the world.

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We all sinned Not only did Adam sin, but when sin came into the world we now all sin we all sin and we lie and we

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Blaspheme and we look at a woman or a man with lust in our heart and it's and it's impossible to deal with it

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I don't know if you experienced that when you were younger or even now just like You know

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Pornographies and epidemic, you know all that all these things drugs I you know when

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I was younger I used to I used to get become a total drunkard and drink till I was inebriated all these things right?

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It's just impossible It seems to overcome this in fact Jesus says he who sins it is a slave to sin you become a slave to sin

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He's sin is your master. And so we need God to intervene and Become our new master.

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We need to become to leave the status of being sons and daughters of Adam Excuse me, and we need to become sons and daughters of God We need to become children of God because the

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Bible actually doesn't say that we're all children of God. He all made us We're all made in the image and likeness of God But it says in John 1 and in other places as well that it says through Jesus Christ He gave us the right to be called children of God and Paul says in Ephesians chapter 2 that we were dead in our trespasses and sins, but he made us alive in Christ Jesus We were we were once sons of disobedience sons of wrath

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Following the prince of the power of the air following the ruler of this age the devil He was our old father in that sense.

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But when Jesus came We all deserve death and judgment and hell for forever because of The one whom we sin against because he's perfect and if he's a good judge and since he is a good judge

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He will punish all sin But here's the here's the that's the bad news.

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That's the bad news is we all deserve punishment The good news is is that when Jesus came as God and became as a man

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He lived the life that we couldn't live he lives sinless Perfection he obeyed the law and the

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Ten Commandments and the full Mosaic legislation from Deuteronomy from Exodus.

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He Leviticus numbers He obeyed that law in in in full and in perfect perfection.

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And so So then Adam was our old representative and then

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Jesus now He says I'll be their representative now He came and he became like a man and still totally

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God totally man and he went on that cross although perfect He gave himself up as a sacrifice it says it says in in Corinthians it says

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He made him who knew no sin To become sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in him

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So he made him Jesus God the Father made him Jesus who knew no sin to become sin in Romans it says that Jesus became a curse and it says cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree on a cross and so that's that's a that's the reality of this is our sin wasn't wasn't as if absolved or just Pardoned or thrown out into the open air.

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God demands justice and It says that the weight in Romans. It says the wages of sin is death

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The wages of sin that means if you work sin the wage or the paycheck you'll get is death

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But and so someone has to die, but guess who did Jesus died?

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Jesus died in our place man. He died in our place So so now

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I don't have to die forever When my body withers away and I go into the ground it says that there will be a final resurrection

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I'll rise again. And if I die on my way home tonight, I'll go I'll go to be with him right now

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It says absent from the body present with the Lord there Everyone's waiting with him right now and one day

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Jesus is going to return again. He's going to speak there's gonna be a trumpet that sounds and he's gonna tell the dead to rise and Everyone good and bad

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Saved and unsaved will rise out of the earth We'll we'll we'll leave that spiritual heaven come back into our bodies

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And it says that we will be we will have glorified bodies will still be completely human But we'll have glorified bodies like Jesus is like his human body

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Which will never undergo decay anymore. It'll never experience death. I'm bald.

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I'm hoping that I'll have some hair again you know things like that and in the in the treasure of heaven

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The treasure that Jesus makes the parable He says he says the kingdom of God the kingdom of heaven is like a man

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Who finds a treasure in a field and he buries it and he sells everything he has to to buy the field and he comes back and he and he takes the treasure out of the field and he and Jesus says

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That that's heaven. That's that's him so the treasure of heaven is to be with Jesus forever and my concern is

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That the LDS Church has said the treasure of heaven is to become like God To become a god to have your spirit wife your your heavenly wife

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Heavenly mother to call upon her secret name To have spirit babies and to start your own

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World, you know to have this celestial existence that the

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Bible doesn't even Say that we're gonna have we're gonna be with him The treasure is

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Jesus for forever not we don't become the treasure. And so that's the gospel man that that means good news

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That's the good news is that we deserve death and judgment in hell but Jesus took it for us in his death on the cross and so The Bible says in Ephesians chapter 2 it says for by grace you have been saved through faith

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For it is a gift of God Not a result of works

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So that no man may boast. It's not a result of works. It's not of you.

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It's not of man It's by faith through the grace that he's given grace literally means in the

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Greek unmerited favor Unworked for it's like it's like when a kid's been rotten all year and the mom and dad still give them a

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Gift for Christmas, even though they don't deserve it. They deserve punishment instead and even that Analogy fails to really to gain the scope of what grace is

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That we so much did not deserve what Jesus did that he

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Actually gave his blood as God that he loved us that much

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It's unfathomable the love the love is literally something that I can't even comprehend and I think we'll spend all eternity trying to think about that love.

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I Know I just talked a whole lot. You seem like a kind of a quiet guy anyways but I've given you a lot to think about and You know

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I'm a pastor at apology at church. My name is Wade if you yeah, what is your name? John John nice to meet you my numbers on the my numbers on the very back of that There's no pressure at all.

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That goes directly to me There's no pressure at all If you ever had any questions if you ever wanted to get lunch if you ever if you ever had it

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Anything that you needed I will be there. I promise you that I would be there if you ever start have questions

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About this organization if you have concerns I'd love to talk with you.

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I'm not trying to rob you of your faith Sounds like you're someone who cares about Jesus and about God.

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We talked about the beginning. I don't want to steal that from you I don't want to be an anti I'm for you, but I'm concerned that there's differences

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Significant differences that Joseph Smith has in the 1800s taken us away from biblical

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Christianity and we're just out here because We're so thankful that people love

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Jesus. But the question is is it the one of the Bible? Is it is it the one that we're supposed to love and know?

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Does that make sense? Yeah, so Yeah, man, thank you for thank you for talking with me.