July 26, 2019 Show with Heather Kendall on “The Late John G. Reisinger”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

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have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 26th day of

July 2019.

Many of you may recall that on June 19th of this year, I had a

special tribute on the program to the late John G. Riesinger, a sovereign grace

pioneer during the Calvinistic resurgence amongst Baptists in the mid -20th century, and I

had on the program Pastor Gary George, who is the pastor of Sovereign Grace

Chapel in Massachusetts, Gary L. Scott, who is an itinerary, itinerant,

I should say, evangelist, and William Sasser, who is a pastor at the

church at Franklin in Franklin, Tennessee.

We were supposed to have on the program that day someone who would have been key to the conversation,

and she could not be on the program, but providentially we have her on

today to continue in that tribute to John G. Riesinger.

Her name is Heather A. Kendall, and she's also the author of One Greater Than

Moses, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio, Heather A. Kendall.

Thank you very much. I'm glad to be there.

And am I pronouncing your last name correctly?

Is it Kendall or Kendall?

Kendall.

Kendall, great.

I thought that's what it was.

Well, before we go into the major

theme, which is a tribute to the late John G. Riesinger, tell us something

about yourself, Heather, since you are a first -time guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We have a tradition here, whenever we have a first -time guest, we have that guest give us a summary of their salvation

testimony.

Please let us know what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in, and what kind of

providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in your life to

draw you to Himself and save you.

Scared me.

I was afraid that.

Praise God.

Now, you mentioned the open Plymouth Brethren.

From what I understand about the Plymouth Brethren, they are traditionally

dispensationalist, and most of them would be Arminian, even if they

would not identify themselves that way, if I'm not mistaken.

That's true.

That's very providential.

Not.

If I lived there.

24 hours a day you'd be doing that.

Yeah.

Amen.

Well, you don't

want to be

too harsh on that

premillennialism.

You might have Fred Zaspel remove his endorsement from your book.

But, of course, Fred's not a dispensationalist.

He's historic premill, and a very dear friend, and I love Fred and hope to get him back on the

program.

I have interviewed him a number of times, and Fred, if you're listening, we hope to get you back on

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio soon, and I'm looking forward to hearing about new book projects and so on.

I haven't interviewed Fred since he came out with the biography of B .B. Warfield, so it's been quite a while.

He said that's it.

And so this, what you're referring to now, is the beginnings of your

discovery and learning about what is now called New Covenant theology?

Yes.

Yes, when I first discovered New Covenant theology, it didn't have that name yet.

My late wife's pastor, a dear friend of mine who is also now in heaven

for eternity, Don Blend, First Baptist Church in Lindenhurst,

Long Island, New York.

Don was a very avid New Covenant theologian, even before it had that name,

and he used to invite me, even before I was married, to my wife.

He used to invite me to attend the John Bunyan Conference in Pennsylvania, and

this would have been in the late 1980s and early 90s.

And even though I was always a member and still am, that is after my

conversion to Christianity, I was raised Roman Catholic, but I've always been a member of a

confessionally Reformed Baptist Church, a covenantal Reformed Baptist

Church.

But I've always had deep and meaningful and essential friendships

with folks on both sides of the covenant debate, and that would include many New Covenant

theology folks.

And I have very fond memories of the John Bunyan Conferences in Pennsylvania, where I

met Fred Zaspel, and where I met Bill Sasser, and where I met Gary George,

and of course John Riesinger, to whom we're paying tribute today, John G. Riesinger, and

quite a number of other folks who have still remained my friends to this day.

And so the book that you are talking about, I mentioned in the opening

announcements, it's One Greater Than Moses, is the title of the book.

And let me just read for our listeners a commendation written for this book by

Fred G. Zaspel, who is a pastor at the Reformed Baptist Church

of Franconia in Telford, Pennsylvania, and he's also the executive director of

Books at a Glance.

And Fred says,.

So that is a very powerful endorsement from somebody as brilliant as my genius

friend Fred Zaspel.

And if you could, break down a bit what are the main

things that you are attempting to convey here in the book One Greater Than Moses, obviously a reference

to Jesus Christ himself, but if you could, tell us what the main points of the book would be.

Started out

because...

American GI.

In addition to being an American, just an American.

He was also a veteran, an American veteran.

John...

So if you could, for our listeners who are hearing you use this phrase, and hearing me as well use

the phrase, New Covenant Theology, they may be thinking, why are they calling something that when every Christian,

since we're in the New Covenant, believes in New Covenant Theology, what's different about what they're talking about?

So if you could, perhaps, give a basic outline or a summary of what New Covenant Theology is.

Now, how would that differ from a Covenantally Reformed Baptist Christian, a

1689 believer, for our listeners who

aren't familiar with what I just said, many Reformed Baptists who are

Covenantal Reformed Baptists adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of

Faith, which is a summary of biblical teaching, and it is nearly identical with

intention to the Westminster Confession of Faith, with the exceptions of areas involving church polity

and baptism.

And so, a Covenantal Reformed Baptist, such as myself and as such as the church where I'm

a member, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, we would believe that only truly regenerate

people, only the elect, are true members of the Covenant.

Even if some fool us for a while, they may even fool us forever.

They may live many decades and die without us never knowing that they were a charlatan, a

false professor.

So we might assume wrongly that people are in the Covenant, but we believe that

only the regenerate are truly members of Christ's Covenant, as opposed to

many of our Pado -Baptist friends, not all, but many of our Pado -Baptist friends, believe that you

become a true member of the Covenant by virtue of your baptism, even as an infant,

before you have the capacity to believe in anything.

But if you could, what would be the nuance or the difference

that a new Covenant theologian would have in that regard, or any of the other pillars that you've mentioned?

The first London Baptist Confession.

And

I

think

what

you

are

saying is

also

valuable

to

correct

some

of

the

erroneous

views

of New

Covenant

theology.

That Covenantal Reformed Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists

have.

Actually, since I've had close, intimate friendships on both sides of the Covenantal debate, I've heard people on both sides of

the debate grossly exaggerate the problems with what the other side

believes over the last 30 years or so of my Christian

life.

And one of the things that my camp, or the camp that I'm in, the Reformed Baptists who are Covenantal and

Confessional, as far as the second London Confession, 1689, is that sometimes they have

referred to New Covenant theology Christians as antinomian.

And I've had to correct them by saying, no, they're not lawless or anti

-law, because they believe Christ is the lawgiver, and they believe

that nine of the commandments in the Decalogue are commandments of Christ as well.

The Sabbath being the only one that New Covenant theology Christians do not believe

is a day in the New Covenant, because they believe Christ is the Sabbath and fulfilled that

completely.

Am I correct in what I'm saying on there?

Yep, that's exactly right.

Yes, and

of

course

a

Covenantal

Reformed

Baptist would agree that

Christ is our true Sabbath rest as well,.

But they would still maintain that there is a day.

And of course I'm specifically talking about the Covenantal Confessional Reformed Baptists who

adhere to the 1689, because there are a wide spectrum of Calvinistic

Baptists who call themselves Reformed Baptists, and they fall on both sides of

this debate.

There are New Covenant theology Christians who are still in churches called

Reformed Baptists, and there are varying views in between even, so

it's not like one monolithic group on either side really.

But we have to go to our first break right now.

If you would like to send in a question to Heather Kendall on

John Riesinger, who we're paying tribute to today, or should I say if I'm speaking

grammatically correct, to whom we're paying tribute today.

And let me just also remind our listeners who missed our last tribute to John Riesinger in

June.

Reverend John G. Riesinger passed away on Monday, December 17, 2018 at

the age of 94, and he is a hero to many

who especially are Calvinistic Baptists.

And although perhaps a greater number of people in the New Covenant theology side of the

debate that exists amongst Calvinistic Baptists would view John as a hero, there are

Covenantal Reformed Baptists who also would love to and have

paid tribute to this dear departed brother now in glory with Christ, John G. Riesinger.

And I know personally some who are actually led to Christ through his teaching,

and some who were led to the doctrines of sovereign grace through his teaching.

And even if they remain Covenantal in their understanding.

And by the way, let me bring up something before I go to the break.

If I'm remembering correctly, and you could correct me if I've got this reversed, but from what I remember

when I interviewed John, when I did the tribute to his brother Ernie Riesinger,

after Ernie went home to be with the Lord, and Ernie Riesinger, for our listeners who don't know who he was, Ernie Riesinger

founded Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I am a member.

He was amongst those Calvinistic pioneers amongst Baptists

in the mid -20th century.

And he and John eventually came to part company theologically over the issue of the Covenant.

But if I'm remembering this correctly, Ernie led John to Christ,

and then John led Ernie to Calvinism, is that right?

That's right.

Okay, got it right.

So that is an interesting story.

In fact, whenever I hear stories about those two, I think somebody should make a movie out of it.

Maybe you should be the one that spearheads that.

But we have to go to our first break right now.

And as I said, if anybody wants to join us on the air with a question for Heather Kendall, on John Riesinger, or

specifically on her book, One Greater Than Moses, or on New Covenant Theology, our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in today, our guest today is Heather A. Kendall.

And she is the author of One Greater Than Moses.

Also a personal friend of the late John G. Reisinger who is a mutual friend of mine.

And we both have very fond memories of this dear brother in Christ who went home to be with the

Lord for eternity in December of 2018.

And this is the second time we're paying tribute to John on the program.

We had another tribute with three different pastors whose

lives were radically blessed and transformed by the life and

ministry of John G. Reisinger.

And we were supposed to have Heather A. Kendall on that program.

She could not participate that day in June.

So we invited her to be on her own tribute to John Reisinger and

also to discuss her books and so on.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your

question involves a personal and private matter.

We do have a listener who's a first -time listener and it happens to be

the nephew of the late John Reisinger.

And he's also a fellow member of Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania where I am a member.

Jonathan Reisinger in Carlisle, Pennsylvania sends in a question.

This is his first time sending in a question to my show that I can remember anyway.

What is the main sticking point most folks get hung up on with New Covenant theology?

Now, as I brought up, when I was moderating the question and answer session at the most

recent John Bunyan conference in Franklin, Tennessee just a number of weeks ago

where I first met you and made some other first -time

connections and so forth and also saw some dear old friends.

But when I was moderating that question and answer session with the audience that the panel of speakers were having

the conference speakers I brought up that in my experience one of the

reasons that I have always believed since I was a Christian since this

division between Covenant Reformed Baptists and New Covenant Reformed Baptists or New Covenant

Theology Baptists even though I believe the differences they're not trivial to

ignore or fluff off as nothing but they are, I believe, in the minds

of some exaggerated to the point where they view the other side as heretics

they view the other side as people we cannot share fellowship with and there's all kinds of exaggerated

responses but in my own life when I have viewed the lives of people on both sides of the

debate it seems to boil down to how one observes Sunday.

In fact, it's interesting although I know that the New Covenant folks are

in a bit of a disagreement with each other over whether or not there is anything special

about Sunday some would say we could gather for corporate worship any day of the

week Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday it doesn't matter.

Others would say well Sunday does have a place of significance as the Lord's Day and the

apostolic example is that we meet on the first day so we should do the same

but as far as how that day is observed I have very

rarely seen any significant difference even in that way other than there are

some New Covenant folks who would have no problem going to a baseball

game.

In fact, probably none would have problems going to a baseball game.

The difference is whether they would or not.

Some might view it as a stumbling block or what have you.

Some would work on Sunday even if it was not

what Covenantal Reformed Christians have called works of

necessity or works of mercy like for instance a nurse or a

doctor would be under both categories of works of necessity and mercy.

And you have police officers you have people in the military.

And you could go on and on and on with lists of people that even your strictest Sabbatarian would say

that person is permitted to work.

But very often the folks that I've known who are New Covenant

Theology Baptists they still would not work on

a Sunday because they just want to reserve that time to fellowship with the brethren.

They want to make sure that they don't forsake the assembling of the brethren so on and on.

So would that be really.

The core of it though is the difference in how Sunday is observed.

Even if in theological terms when our apologists and

theologically minded pastors and regular Christians

when they are getting into a theological debate or discussion these things may be

far more serious than the way I am simplifying

them.

But in practicality in the way that we live and breathe and seek to obey

Christ.

Isn't that really the difference how we observe Sunday.

Yes and you seem to give Sunday more significance than some of my friends who are New Covenant

Theology Baptists because there are some that we even heard some of our brethren

and friends at the John Bunyan Conference in Franklin, Tennessee say that it could be any day of the week.

I've heard that too.

You're right any day of the week.

Friday day.

If you could turn your air conditioner on even in a strict Sabbatarian home I would think that

jumping in a cold swimming pool on a hot summer day.

Would be okay too.

But we have to go to our midway break right now.

In fact let me read another question that came in and you can answer it when we come

back.

We have a question from Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina.

And let me just enlarge Grady's question because it's on a very tiny font on

his email.

And while I'm doing that I'll give you the email address again.

For those of you who are listening it's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

If you want to send in your own question chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Now Grady may have written this before you went into an explanation

already.

But if there's anything you want to add when we come back from the break this is Grady's question.

Another great show.

Chris Kendall, can you explain the difference between the Reformed Presbyterians and Reformed

Baptists in their view of New Covenant theology.

So if there's anything you care to add on that you actually didn't get into much of your understanding of Presbyterianism that I

remember.

So maybe you could bring up that primarily when we come back.

But if anybody else wants to join us with a question our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

And remember that this is a longer than normal break.

Don't be puzzled when it's going on a lot longer than you thought it might.

If you're a new time or first time listener this is the time of the program

where Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida who airs this program twice a day in a pre -recorded format

in morning drive and in the evening they require a longer break in the middle of our show because they use

that time for their own public service announcements and commercials.

To follow FCC regulations they have to localize Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida 90

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to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time

and knowing this it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron.

Financially.

Would you consider sending either a one time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry.

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and the Dividing Line.

Webcast here.

Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach and debate at numerous venues some of my

very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope

Reform Baptist Church now located.

At their new.

Beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's word from their pulpit on many occasions.

Have led youth retreats.

For them.

And have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my New York debates.

I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island to anyone who wants to be

accurately taught discipled and edified by the Holy Scriptures and to be surrounded by truly loving

and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder

Pastor Christopher McDowell.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net.

Or call.

631 -696 -5711.

That's.

631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island that you heard about them from James White on Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

Let me just remind you that Cumberland Valley Bible Book

Service cvbbs .com one of our sponsors they are the ones that

are responsible every time a listener wins either a New American Standard Bible

as a first time listener or they win a book that is being

given away by an author that we happen to be interviewing like today.

And by the way folks all of you who have sent in questions so far you have received or

will receive I should say you have won and will receive a new copy or free copy.

Of.

One Greater Than Moses by our guest Heather Kendall.

So if you give us your full mailing address that will be shipped out to you free of charge by cvbbs .com

and also Jonathan Reisinger since he's

a first time questioner he also gets a NASB Bible for free but please

keep in mind.

That.

Whenever you are looking for a gift for someone or to edify yourself

increase your own knowledge and build a a biblically faithful library cvbbs

.com is an ideal place to go.

In fact one of our other sponsors Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher

and cvbbs .com is a book distributor.

There's a big difference there because you can help both of our sponsors at the same time both Solid Ground Christian Books

and cvbbs by going to Solid Ground Christian Books website at

solid -ground -books .com solid -ground -books .com make a long list of the books there

published by Solid Ground Christian Books.

Then go to cvbbs .com and order them there because cvbbs .com

carries a very large selection of books published by Solid Ground Christian Books and if they don't have

something in stock that you are ordering specifically they will order it for you.

This way you help out both of my sponsors at the same time.

And of course cvbbs .com has an assortment and an inventory that far extends

beyond just Solid Ground Christian Books.

They offer books published by any theologically reformed or Calvinistic

publisher so you will be blessed by the finest and biblically sound literature at

cvbbs .com.

Please don't forget that we just have a few special announcements to make

regarding.

The.

Regarding the events that are coming up in the near future that I hope that you or at least most

of you can attend at least one or some or all of these the first is coming up very

soon August 1st through the 3rd in the Deering Center Community Church

in Portland, Maine.

August 1st through the 3rd and that is the Fellowship Conference New England those days of the week by the way are

Thursday, Friday, and Saturday August 1st through the 3rd and my friend Pastor Mac Tomlinson of

Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas is the one that spearheads this conference every year in New England

all the way on the other side of the country from where he lives in Texas, it's in Maine.

And the speakers this August include Pastor Anthony

Mathenia who is the pastor of Christ Church in Radford, Texas.

He's also a poll washers pastor and a really excellent speaker.

As I said before Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas, he is one of the speakers.

Another one of the pastors at Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas is Pastor Lee Dodd.

He is on the roster there.

He is also going to be my guest on Wednesday the 31st of August.

And last but not least Pastor Nate Pickowitz who is the pastor of Harvest Bible Church in

Gilmanton Iron Works, New Hampshire and he's also an author and an excellent speaker.

And he was just my guest.

Let's see it was on Tuesday the 23rd of July.

He was my guest.

Always love having Nate back on.

But if you want to register for this conference I'm sure you'll be richly blessed.

Fellowship Conference New England go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com.

Fellowshipconferencenewengland .com and it will have all the information that you need to attend then after

that.

Well actually kind of overlapping that my friend Dr. Tony Costa will be speaking in

Texas, Hockley, Texas.

To be more specific at the Church at Friendship Dr. Costa is going to be

speaking at a conference hosted by the Providence Theological Institute of New

Covenant Theology the institute that also hosted the

last John Bunyan conference in Franklin, Tennessee that I attended and where I met my guest Heather Kendall

which was actually held at the Grace Church at Franklin in Franklin, Tennessee.

This is going to be held August 2nd through the 4th that will be Friday through Sunday

and at the Church at Friendship in Hockley, Texas and the themes that Dr. Costa will be speaking on

include the meaninglessness of life without God the authority and

inerrancy of Scripture the Promised Land and the New Covenant.

And.

What is New Covenant.

Theology and the Glorious New Covenant.

That's August 2nd through the 4th at the Church at Friendship in Hockley, Texas.

If you'd like to register for that conference go to churchatfriendship .org

churchatfriendship .org.

Then.

After that in September in fact specifically Saturday, September 7th at 6 .30pm my

friend Pastor Bruce Bennett of the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York is going to

be debating Roman Catholic Apologist Matthew Luke Broderick.

The theme of the debate is is the Pope.

No, let me re -read that is the office of Pope Biblical is the office of Pope

Biblical.

And as I said that will be Saturday, September 7th 2019 at 6 .30pm at the Word of Truth Church

Farmingville, Long Island, New York.

If you want more details on this debate call 631 -806 -0614

631 -806 -0614 631 -806 -0614.

631 -806 -0614.

Or you could go to wotchurch .com that's W -O -T which

stands for Word of Truth wotchurch .com is the website.

Then in December I'm packing up my bags and heading back to my old stomping grounds in New York City to the Foundations

Conference, a conference of sermonaudio .com this is a very important and excellent

conference and I love Manhattan during the Christmas season and so what a better

time to attend a conference being held Friday and Saturday December 19th and 20th just a week before

Christmas in the heart of the Christmas season in the heart of Manhattan

December 19th and 20th Thursday and Friday.

The Foundations Conference speakers include Dr. Steven J. Lawson, founder of One Passion Ministries,

Paul Washer one of the greatest preachers alive Rev. Jeff Thomas, also a phenomenal preacher

and teacher and author, Rev. Armand Tomassian an extraordinary young pastor who has gifts

and abilities far beyond his youth and I believe is going to be a household name amongst Reformed Christians over the next decade.

He is so powerful Richard Caldwell Jr. and Anthony Quigley.

I have not yet heard either of these brethren preach, but since the

sermonaudio .com selected them, I'm sure they are absolutely superb.

If you'd like to register if you are a man in ministry leadership by the way, this is a conference for men in ministry leadership.

They can only hold less than 200 people in this venue so they restrict it to men in ministry leadership.

Go to thefoundationsconference .com thefoundationsconference .com to register.

Then in January more specifically January 16th through the 18th

that's a Thursday through Saturday January 16th through the 18th 2020, I'm going to

be packing up my bags and heading down south again to attend one of my favorite conferences of all, the G3

conference, which stands for Gospel Grace and Glory.

This January's theme is on worship matters.

Very important topic.

Speakers include Kosti Hinn, the nephew of the notorious heretic Benny Hinn.

Kosti has renounced and repented of the word of faith heresies that his

uncle has helped make popular, and he spends much of his time outside of his own pulpit in

California seeking to warn people and expose the word of

faith heretics for the deceptive, dangerous, deadly, and damning

people that they are.

So please make it an effort to come hear Kosti speak on this subject of worship

matters.

He is now a Reformed Baptist pastor and a cessationist in California.

Other speakers include Darrell Bernard Harrison, a new team member at the Grace to You ministry, the ministry of John

MacArthur.

David Miller, who is an extraordinary old -school preacher.

Derek Thomas, a name very well known to most Reformed Christians.

My dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, whom I have known since 1995 and

have called my friend.

He is one of my closest friends and I always look forward to hear him any time I have the opportunity.

Dr. Joel Beeke, another friend of mine since the 1990s, president of Puritan Reformed Theological

Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Again, we have both Stephen J. Lawson and Paul Washer on the roster at this conference.

Phil Johnson, the executive director of Grace to You.

Stephen J. Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier

Ministries.

Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Radio.

Tom Askell, the executive director of Founders Ministries, which is the Calvinistic ministry within the Southern

Baptist Convention.

Vody Baucom, one of the most powerful preachers on the planet Earth today and more.

And the addition of John MacArthur has me so excited.

The world -renowned Bible teacher, preacher, and author John MacArthur is also on this lineup.

And I have never been in the same room with John MacArthur before, so I'm looking forward to this.

He is one of my all -time favorite preachers and teachers and a modern -day hero of mine.

If you want to attend this conference, go to G3conference .com.

G3conference .com.

Click.

G3.

2020 and you'll have all the details that you need.

And I strongly urge you, if you have a business, a parachurch organization, or some other

event or organization that you want to advertise or promote amongst a large

number of Christians, the G3 conference is ideal because they have over 5 ,000 people attending

this every year.

I believe, I am very confident, with John MacArthur added to the roster, they're going to have over 6 ,000 people.

And if you want to have an exhibitor's booth there to represent your business or parachurch organization or whatever it

is you do, if you want to have a register, if you want to register for a booth before they run out of

room, I would register for a booth as well if that applies for you.

So go to G3conference .com and not only register to attend, but if it

applies to you, register for an exhibitor's booth as well.

You'll be glad you took me up on that recommendation.

I will have an exhibitor's booth there as well and I hope that yours is near mine if you register for one.

Now, last but not least, if you love Iron Trump and Zion Radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves, please

donate as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can at the G3conference website.

At irontrumpandzionradio .com click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing so.

That's irontrumpandzionradio .com click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can also mail in a check via snail mail the old -fashioned way to the address that appears on the screen.

Make your checks made payable to irontrumpandzionradio .com.

Please always remember, never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church where you are a member in order to give

to irontrumpandzionradio .com.

Never do that.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy to give to irontrumpandzionradio .com.

Those two things are commands of Holy Scripture providing for your church and your home.

Providing for my show is not a command of God, obviously, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond

your ability to obey those two commands, you have extra money for benevolent reasons, for recreational purposes,

you have money lying around collecting interest, well please, if you love this show, you don't want it to go away, please

donate as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can, even if it's just one time.

By going to irontrumpandzionradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

And, uh, if you are not a member of a local Bible believing church, and you're not even perfectly looking for one,

you're living in rebellion against God, please rectify that situation.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I've already helped a number of people in our

audience find churches near them, either where they live, or where they're going on

vacation, or where their family, friends, and loved ones live, so I can help you as well, and if we don't

have an exact match where you live or where you're vacationing, I can at least refer you to churches that

might know where you can go.

So, send me an email to chrisarnsonatgmail .com chrisarnsonatgmail .com and put I need a church or something similar in the

subject line.

If you want to advertise with us, we really could use your advertising dollars, so as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we

believe, send me an email to chrisarnsonatgmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

That is also the, uh, email address where you can send in a question for Heather

Kendall on New Covenant Theology, or specifically on John G. Reisinger, a hero to many

Calvinistic Baptists who just went home to be with the Lord in December of 2018.

Our email address for questions for Heather Kendall is chrisarnsonatgmail .com

chrisarnsonatgmail .com chrisarnsonatgmail .com.

Heather, you may recall before the break, we had a Grady in

Asheboro, North Carolina, who is also an avid listener to Iron Trump and Zion Radio and a very generous supporter financially

of this program.

He asked, Another great show, Chris.

Kendall, can you explain the difference between the Reformed Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists in their view

of New Covenant Theology?

And it seems like he's asking what Reformed Presbyterians and

Reformed Baptists both think about something that is not what they claim for themselves.

I don't know if I'm understanding Grady correctly, but it sounds like he's asking what do Covenantal

Christians, both Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists, think of New Covenant Theology?

But I might be wrong.

Maybe you could just focus on.

The.

Reformed Presbyterians, since we've already discussed Reformed Baptists at great length.

Their view would be even more different because of the fact that they believe in infant baptism, although

there is still cherished fellowship and friendship between the Reformed Presbyterians and most

Calvinists.

But anything you have to say.

You're

right.

In

fact, I

think

Satan,

therefore...

Yes,

and

of

course.

We can't forget as Baptists that especially, I think, in areas like the Bible Belt of the

United States, there are many Baptists who are raised to think that

they're Christians also, even if there is no evidence of a new birth in their life, a new heart.

You have a very similar circumstance that you have with many Paedo

-Baptist churches and denominations where children in the South, the Midwest

perhaps, are viewed by their parents as Christians just because their daddy, their great

granddaddy, and going back perhaps centuries in their

family, have been Baptists or even Pastors.

They think that that child or their children are automatically saved.

They tell them to get baptized when they turn 12 or so, even if there's no life change, even if there's no real

genuine repentance and faith.

So, we can be guilty of that too.

It's not just the Paedo -Baptists, but since I disagree with infant baptism, I obviously think it's a

more serious error or problem.

Yeah, I

agree

with

you.

Amen, I agree.

But, as I've said before, and as you even said, we cherish our friendship with our

Presbyterian and Paedo -Baptist brethren.

I've had many Presbyterian and Paedo -Baptist guests on my show, and

I have learned greatly from many Paedo -Baptists, some of whom I would consider my heroes, like Sinclair Ferguson,

and even heroes from the past.

There are many, like John Calvin himself and so on.

So,.

I believe that, if I'm not mistaken, were not Ernie and John Riesinger

Presbyterian before they became Baptists?

He got saved.

And we do have.

C .J. and Lennon Hearst, Long Island, New York, who wants to know, I'm sorry if I missed

this, if you said it earlier, but how did you actually come to know John Riesinger and

become a friend of his?

Because

of my

book, A

Tale of

Two

Kings.

And then, of course, they started again this year in Franklin, Tennessee.

Yes, that's right.

Great.

And thank you, C .J.

You've also won a free copy of One Greater Than Moses.

Please email me your complete mailing address so that cvbbs .com

can ship that out to you as soon as possible.

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania,

who asks, Can you tell us the history of what would be now called New

Covenant theology prior to John Riesinger and his fellow believers

in this system?

Was there a belief present that you know of in Church history that may date back centuries,

perhaps even simultaneous with the Reformers, or is this more of a new phenomenon that first came

onto the scene in the 20th century?

Now, you mentioned the Particular Baptist before.

A lot of them, though, were more on the covenantal side.

They were confessional in regard to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which is a

covenantal confession.

So, the Particular Baptists weren't all unified.

On.

The New Covenant.

Understanding.

There were obviously many of them that were confessional.

Yes,

that's

true.

That was John Bunyan, not Michael Hagen.

Laughter laughter.

Now, one

thing

I'm having

a hard time.

Understanding is you mentioned that when John Zenz made a declaration

that only believers are truly in the covenant, well, Reform Baptists also

believe that.

We don't believe that unregenerate children are truly in the covenant.

We believe in a regenerate covenant.

We believe that since Christ mediates on our behalf,.

He.

Mediates on behalf of everyone that's truly in the covenant, that no one in the covenant truly

is going to hell.

Everyone that is in the covenant is going to heaven.

That means, obviously, that everyone will be regenerate.

So, I'm not sure I'm following you on why the Reform Baptists would have been upset by that aspect.

Oh, right.

I can understand how many.

Would be, yeah.

Yeah,

and

unfortunately,.

I have met, as I said earlier, I've met people on both sides of the argument or the debate on the covenant.

Who.

Have wrongly been overly harsh with their brothers about these differences and

have acted in an aloof fashion and that's something that's inexcusable for those,

not only who are born again and indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but also

those that recognize the lowly state of man and that we

owe everything to God, 100 of our salvation and any blessing that we

gladly and joyfully receive and experience is owed all to God, so we have to be,

more than anyone, the most humble of men,.

Don't we?

Yes.

Amen.

Amen.

And when I'm saying that we need to be humble, I'm also not saying that we are to

hold to our convictions loosely and lightly and act as if they don't matter.

I have arranged theological debates since 1995 primarily with my

friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries who is a Reformed Baptist, but also with Dr. Tony Costa who is

one of the speakers at the John Bunyan Conference in Franklin, Tennessee and

so I obviously believe that doctrine matters, theology matters, it's not trivia,

so we have to pray for God to give us the rare combination, it

seems, of passion and concern and

diligence when it comes to theological purity and

theological understanding and having a deep knowledge of the Bible and what Christ

expects of us and what Christ teaches us without at the same time being a humble person,

a person who's willing to listen to others, a person who isn't quick to fly off in a

rage and to cut off fellowship with those for whom Christ

actually died.

I mean, there's not too many people on either side of this debate that I would

in fact, there's nobody on either side of this debate that I've ever heard would deny the salvation of those on the other side,

so when we're talking about our brothers and sisters in Christ who were purchased by the blood of Christ

we have to be very careful as to not to be too harsh and aloof and

off -putting and distancing, etc.

Yes, and by the way, I'm not 100 certain about

whether or not John and Ernie ever quote, quote, made up in any meaningful way.

Unfortunately they distanced themselves from each other for decades over their division over the

covenant even though both were Calvinistic Baptists.

Do you know if there was any meaningful reconciliation before Ernie went home to be with the Lord, because he went

first and I do know that John wrote a beautiful eulogy

for his brother Ernie, but I don't know specifically about any kind of reconciliation before

Ernie went home.

To be with the Lord.

I don't.

Think...

Amen, yes, I know.

In fact, as I said earlier, he paid tribute to Ernie on my show.

Well, we have to go to our last break right now and if anybody has any questions, now would be the time to do it because we're rapidly

running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, and my friend Chris Arnzen and I are excited to be attending another G3 conference

together in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, on a theme that

is vitally important to all of us, Worship Matters.

I'll be on the speaking lineup with Derrick Thomas, Joel Beeky, Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, Phil Johnson,

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A fascinating new addition to the roster is Kosti Hinn, nephew of the notorious false teacher, Benny

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You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

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Yeah.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen, our last segment now with our guest today, Heather A.

Kendall, on our tribute to the late John G. Riesinger and also to discuss her book,

One Greater Than Moses.

Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Heather, we have Bebe in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know if

you ever received any opposition even from your fellow New Covenant theology Christian

brothers and sisters in regard to you being a woman writing a book about theology.

I am not personally opposed to this at all and gain much blessing from reading books

by women, but I was just wondering if you have received any opposition being a woman.

And sometimes men in the body of Christ can overblow the restrictions

on women in the church.

I did.

On Amazon.

They have plenty of women writing books.

My friends at PNR Publishing obviously don't see a restriction in that area because they publish books by women.

Well, that's good to know.

But anyway, I

did get a

quarter.

Yeah, well, there's always going to be bickering and arguing between

even brothers and sisters in the same pews at church, so unfortunately, until we

are with Christ for eternity, we've got to put up with these kinds of things.

Well, I want to make sure that you have uninterrupted at least a minute and a half to

summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Praise God.

Well, I want to make sure our listeners know about your website, which is called A Tale of Two Kingdoms, and

of course, tale is T -A -L -E.

The website is tale2k, T -A -L -E, the number 2

-K dot com, T -A -L -E 2 -K dot com.

Thank you so much, Heather, for being my guest today.

It was such a joy meeting you in Franklin, Tennessee at Grace Church at Franklin where they were

holding the John Bunyan Conference there, and I hope to meet you again.

I have been already invited to attend the next John Bunyan Conference in Franklin, Tennessee, and

perhaps we'll meet there again, and I want to thank everybody who listened today, and all of you who have written in

questions are winning, or have won, I should say, a copy, a free copy of One Greater Than Moses.

Make sure I have your mailing addresses so that cvbbs .com can ship those books out to.

You.

I want all of you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.

I hope you all have a safe, blessed, and happy weekend and Lord's Day.

Talk to you next week when you send in your questions via email for our guests on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.