Christianity and Racism

Have You Not Read

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Welcome to Have You Not Read, a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of Scripture for the honor of Christ and the edification of the

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Saints. Before we dig into our topic, we humbly ask you to rate, review, and share the podcast.

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Thank you. I'm Dylan Hamilton and with me are Michael Durham, David Kasem, Andrew Hudson, and we are firing off episode number two of this new season.

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We're glad to be back and glad to have you all with us again along with all these questions that have been sent in and we are thankful for every question that we have and we're going to put that out up front as we read these two questions next.

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We truly are thankful for every question that we do receive and we do plan to answer them as best we can according to what the

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Scriptures have to say about the categories that are either brought up in these questions or that are latent within it and see what our

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Lord has to say about them. I'm going to be reading two questions in tandem and the first question reads,

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Most white supremacists I have met are Christian. What is it about Christianity that attracts racists?

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I am an atheist and my atheist friends and I work to promote racial equality. Why do you think atheism attracts colorblind people?

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Okay and the second question reads, Why are Christians so supportive of Donald Trump and his racism?

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The church includes all people. The church should be inclusive and diverse. That is exactly what every tongue, tribe, and nation means.

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Biden is obviously a terrible president but at least he is not racist and what we need is to bring this country together, heal together, and then we can move forward from all this divisive rhetoric.

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So there's a lot to unpack in both of these questions and they're a little bit different because it seems like the background of the questioner is different in each one so we're not going to assume that this is the same questioner but they're dealing with the same topic and Michael why don't you get us started on this.

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So there are a lot of terms that are used and there are a lot of assumptions that are also made and obviously someone's working from a worldview and also they're working from sources of information and they're working from sources of authority that are giving them not only the definitions of their terms but are also supplying the moral framework by which they are making these determinations.

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So it's I think a polite thing to do our best to try to understand where someone is coming from, what their worldview is, what those sources of information, those trusted sources of information that they rely on and why do they find the moral framework that has been handed to them so compelling.

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And those are all part and parcel to trying to unpack these multi -layered questions that in one way or another have greatly affected the regular church member of our church and other churches as well.

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These topics have been extremely front and center in the mainstream media since 2012.

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There's been, and even as far back as 2008, there has been a lot of extra conversation about race and white supremacy and racists and so on since the late 2000s moving on to today.

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It's been something of a resurrected topic shall we say. So the first characterization is most white supremacists

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I have met are Christian. So there's no offering of a definition for what white supremacist is.

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So who gets to define that? What is that? My definition for white supremacist is probably going to be far different than the person who asked this question.

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And what definition are we going to rely on and who gets to be the observer to say who is who and so on.

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So if somebody has a Marxist background, they're gonna be white supremacist in every bush in all of society.

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If somebody has a different background, they're probably gonna have a hard time finding white supremacists.

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So that's just gonna be one difference. Now when they say most white supremacists I've met are Christian, what's your definition for Christian?

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Somebody who believes in God and the Bible in general? Because my definition for a Christian is going to be once again much more narrow than somebody else's definition of what a

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Christian is. So that once again there's definitional differences. There's going to be a big challenge for somebody coming from this worldview to be able to have a profitable conversation without you know we've got to define a whole bunch of terms first and obviously we would want to do that.

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And then a big assumption that is obviously a kind of assumption and a question that is condemning by nature.

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What is it about Christianity that attracts racists? It's like walking up to somebody and saying when did you stop beating your wife?

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Okay so this is a logical fallacy. It's an inappropriate kind of discourse that's dishonest.

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Without two unproven definitions, white supremacists and Christians, based on one's personal experience most white supremacists

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I meet are Christian therefore Christianity attracts racists. So tell me what about Christianity attracts racists?

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So this is a dishonest discourse. It's not a profitable question and in fact when there is a desire and let's say let's assume

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I am assuming this is the same question on both. If there's a desire to move away from divisive rhetoric to start this way is to insert divisive rhetoric from the very beginning.

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So when there's a saying I'm an atheist I appreciate the openness and honesty about that. I'm an atheist, my atheist friends and I work to promote racial equality.

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And again I'm interested. I mean what does that look like? How do you go about that? And then the question is why do you think atheism attracts colorblind people?

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So once again the person is using some terms that I would be interested to hear more definition about.

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What is this racial equality that you're promoting? How is it that you're working to do that? But once again there is this dishonest discourse because of this person's personal experience therefore atheism inherently attracts colorblind people.

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When you think about the definition of colorblind that's a very interesting term especially since many of the leading voices that are pushing for social equality and racial reconciliation they have labeled and identified the term colorblind as incredibly racist and emerging from white supremacy.

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White supremacist dog whistle they call it. Yeah it's a white supremacist dog whistle. So here is this person asking a question and using terms that have been identified by leaders of racial reconciliation as white supremacist dog whistles.

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So based upon the own I would say assumed sources of authority to try to even describe what racial reconciliation is this question on the face of it is incoherent and not established correctly.

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So that becomes a very difficult kind of question to answer but I would say that when these terms come up I would encourage striving for definition of terms and identifying those sources of authority and where are you getting your moral framework from.

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I'm very interested to hear how is it that you think that this is a coherent approach and a profitable approach.

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I'm I'm open to hearing why are you taking this this particular attack. So I think that is a way of handling a question like that that makes assumptions and brings moral condemnation and asserts moral supremacy without actually establishing any kind of values openly.

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I mean this person basically said in my experience most of the racists I have come across white supremacists I have come across are

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Christians and in my experience with me and my friends you know atheism seems to attract colorblindness.

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Why is that the case? And your response is all right let's let's go over those definitions and let's how come your experience is normative because my experience has been the exact opposite and I've seen some pretty horribly racist and deadly actions from the atheist side as well.

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I mean you just look and look looking in history sort of decimates that but they're saying well this has been my perspective this has been what

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I've seen in this local context. I'm not talking about Mao's China in the 1960s. That's a good point.

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What about the United States in the 20th century? I mean we were like headquarters for atheistic eugenicists.

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Nazi Germany took a lot of cues from the United States and their policies so there's no clean hands on the atheist side.

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We outdid Hitler in a lot of ways. Oh my. So another thing about this question because it is experience based you know this is my experience with you know it obviously this person is not well -traveled okay because if they spent any time where the

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Christian majority lives then you would find a whole lot more South Koreans and a whole lot more folks in Africa.

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You would find a whole lot of people in Southeast Asia. Are you talking about the ethnos scattered across the globe?

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Yeah. I mean where if you're gonna count numbers and some people I think people as someone asking this question would be someone who is interested in statistics and probably deriving a lot of their assumptions from statistics and whether or not those statistics are being formulated properly is something to be discussed.

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However the majority of Christians aren't white okay and if we're going to be what is it about Christianity that attracts racists okay but you're thinking white supremacists so your experience is very limited in understanding who

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Christians are especially from history and especially in the present day where Christians are all over the world today in a variety of nations and cultures.

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So I think it's a very limited experience and it's bringing some inappropriate assumptions to the question. You want to see some really stark racism go to go the

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Middle East you know the Arabs hate anybody who's not Arab. It's not just non -muslim.

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You should see how the the Arabs hate the Persians. How they that the disdain they have for the

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Turk. They have people from Indonesia the most populous Muslim nation in the world and they treat them as just dogs and servants.

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Well you know because you're not Arab. Are you saying that every people group has a group of racists?

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I'm saying that every people group has a group of racists. Okay my last observation about the question is that the assumption is being made why do you think atheism attracts colorblind people.

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I think that if anything if we were to look at where atheism is headquartered the shrines the temples of atheism we should look at the secular

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University and I would say that if there's any place in America today that is most focused on color and obsessed with what color you are and engaging in proactive segregation based on your skin color it would be the secular universities of our nation.

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So that's my last observation about the question that's why I find it incoherent and is not I don't think it's very well rooted in some very basic observations but I see there is a sense in which they see something immoral about Christianity and something moral about atheism and mostly centered around what color someone's skin is.

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Well looking in the New Testament giving the New Testament response and this this flows into the next question

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I think but the New Testament response to the atheism framing himself or themselves as morally superior the

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New Testament response is that in Christ those racial lines become secondary.

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Your identity is in Christ and you're identified as a Christian first.

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You don't lose those national identities or that ethnicity because we have from Isaiah to Matthew 28 to Revelation 7 where you we have the command of every tribe tongue and nation.

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It says every tribe tongue and nation there are people that I have called out for myself says the king and he is bringing these nations to himself and it is in Christ and in his authority and and this is what the

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Scriptures say not just in the New Testament but throughout I mean we talk about Psalm 2 and the kingdom of the

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Messiah is of every members of every single people group but they identify themselves as in Christ first and all of those kind of lines fade into the background because that's not the priority but Christ's priority is to take because he said he was going to do this every tribe tongue a nation to himself because that is what gives glory to the father so I would say and I love the statement most

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Christians aren't white and Andrew had said this earlier been who is building the church Christ is building the church this are the people he is calling out for themselves and yes some of them gonna be white some of them are not gonna be white that's not the issue the issue is

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Christ is calling them to himself and is building his church and it does look very very colorful and that's okay and that's great but he's the one who's building it and if there's a particular church in a particular area that has a particular people group and they happen to be monochromatic

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Christ built that church yeah I think it's in the following question is getting to how is

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Christ building this church and the question is why are Christians so supportive of Donald Trump and his racism again this is another loaded question that is very much in the same style as the first set of two questions but why are

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Christians so supportive of Donald Trump and his racism well I've not met any Christian anywhere who is pointed out to anything where Donald Trump has said something racist and said boy

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I am I'm so supportive of that so again it comes back to the definitions what are you saying is his racism and where exactly do you find

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Christian supporting that racism and who gave you that definition and who what moral framework are you using so we have to go back to all those definitions of terms and see whether or not those moral frameworks and definitions are coherent or incoherent are they actually true or are they absurd but if you spent any time at all listening to Christians over the last decade you are going to find that there is not monolithic support for Donald Trump we spend half our time yelling at each other about you know not supporting him and try not to support him too much and here's how much you can support him or you shouldn't support him at all to lump all

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Christians together as some sort of monolith that they are so supportive of Donald Trump and his racism

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I think is unfortunate groupthink Christians aren't a monolith and they're always holding each other accountable about this particular issue now there are some who are political in nature and they're looking for power

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I think Robert Jeffers you know is anointing Donald Trump as the second coming of the Messiah but he's doing that for political gain and there's you know there's

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TBN types who are looking for fame and they're gonna ride the coattails of Donald Trump but no no

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Bible believing Christian trying to follow Jesus and do the right thing takes those people seriously like who cares about what these dog and pony show people do we know we know them by their fruits and we don't they don't speak for us so we don't support

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Donald Trump for his racism if we do vote for him and say he's a better option than the other guy most of the time overwhelmingly most of the time it's we think there's a better chance that he might appoint judges that might end up with less less babies being killed inside the womb that's generally the level of our support and since abortion is one of the most racist and racially charged

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Margaret Sanger yeah I'm gonna go back to atheists like any genesis any effort whatsoever to push back against abortion is the most anti racist thing you can possibly do and when it says that the church includes all people the church should be inclusive and diverse again those terms that you keep using those terms but I don't think that they mean what you think that they mean right what what do you mean by those terms because the definitions of inclusive and diverse according to a

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Marxist is going to be completely different in thinking about including others and having a wide plethora of kinds of people in the church those terms from a biblical worldview are not going to be the same terms from a

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Marxist worldview and so when someone is saying hey the church should be inclusive and diverse where'd you get those terms what do they mean and when they say that is exactly what every tribe tongue and nation means actually we don't take definitions that are defined by the mainstream media and then take those terms and bring them into the

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Bible and say this is what exactly the Bible means that is interpreting the scripture in light of some other hermeneutic actually

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Jesus Christ Jesus of Nazareth who is the Christ the Son of the Living God died upon the cross and shed his blood and purchased unto

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God people from every tribe tongue and nation he redeemed them by his blood he suffered under the wrath of God completing all the righteousness that was required for them to have peace with God redeemed them unto

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God and was raised from the dead for their justification to be brought to God and so that's what every tribe tongue and nation means and yes

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God loves the tribes Jesus died for the tribes he died for all these different nations and in fact we find when the gospel goes out the gospel first preach at Pentecost was preached to people from all over the

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Roman Empire and it was preached in such a way so they heard it in their own native heart language what do we learn from that we learn from that that God loves it when the gospel is preached in the heart language of the tribes which is why

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Christians have labored and labored and labored for centuries and spent all this money and time to translate the scriptures into the heart languages of the tribes so that they can know the gospel in their best understood language we don't require them to learn

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English we want them to know God's Word from the Greek and Hebrew straight to their heart language and we got that model from Pentecost from Acts chapter 2 so yeah the church is very diverse it has all these tribes and tongues and nations and God loves that and that's a good thing now and says so Biden's a terrible president but at least he's not racist again who said who gets to define it who told you that and why is it true and they said what we need to bring is to bring this country together heal together and then we can move forward from all this divisive move forward to what well again

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I think the best way for us for our country to come together for a country to heal together the best way a country can move forward from divisive rhetoric is to stop talking about race so much let's stop talking about race all the stinking time let's stop talking about how much money some people have all the stinking time let's stop being materialists let's stop let's stop focusing on pigmentation let's stop focusing on materialism and the best way for us to move together heal together and get past divisive rhetoric is for us all to confess that Jesus Christ is

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Lord all of us to bow the knee and every tongue confessed that he is Lord to the glory of God the Father and that's going to be unity yeah there's no unity outside Christ there's none he is the

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Son of Man he is king of kings he is the root he's the king of all the rulers of the earth and if you want unity then everybody bow the knee to him and make everything about him not about race like these questions do so having said that everything we just said went right past the atheist right it just went right past the unbeliever maybe might have hit him in the head and fell on the floor and they stomped on it so we are very careful to parse apart the definitions we take loads of time to explain ourselves and then to be honest about these things from a biblical perspective but these questions always put

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Christians on the defense I mean and push back on you guys if this is out there but you don't get to determine what sin is for me that's correct tell me why racism is sinful yeah tell me where'd you make up where'd you get that made -up sin

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I'm not finding it are you saying to explain their moral foundation where do they derive it yeah but not just no not just where do you derive it but how do you think that's how do you think that that puts guilt on me how is you calling me a racist or even if I were to think that I'm a racist biblically where why were you making that up to hoist guilt upon me in order for you to manipulate me that's my territory that's my

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Lord's territory he says what the sin is you don't right and Christians have been taking these questions for 15 14 years now as if they're legitimate as if they're serious questions in order to to solve issues in the church that we actually have these problems and the one

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I mean white guilt it's in it's in their texts like they want you to feel that that's the purpose of it we need to quit being so defensive on these things and say no not a not a serious question not a real question and you and you don't get to come into my

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Lord's realm about sin and tell me how I'm sinful about things I just don't

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I don't get the I mean I understand wanting to make a defense for bring a defense for every question or contrary opinion to the gospel

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I understand that but we're talking about people who are using rhetorics to push guilt on to Christians in mass yeah but that's the thing is and that's why

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I answered the way I did because the argument is a is a moral argument and all kinds of truth claims are being made but where are you getting that from and in generally it comes back to well the consensus has spoken well so you heard everybody say that no no somebody spoke for the consensus and told me it was the consensus and that's why it's true today yeah true today but that that changes and it's a really fun read to find out find out how many times what people were told was the truth turned out to not be the truth which is part of the human experience to continually be fooled by what you thought was the truth and and it's like well that's so when you're coming and saying

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Christians are this and Christians are that and they need to change and hoisting a moral a moral obligation and condemnation upon the church it's like hang on a second you don't get to define truth and morality that belong to Jesus Christ so let's let's talk about why are you deceiving and being deceived yeah and that's what

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I'm trying to get to is like the moral framework for them doesn't matter they'll pick up a new one as soon as they can to defend the envy to defend the hate and I think behind these questions like how many times we can list how many times the word white is brought up in the questions right like what's the focus we were talking earlier in the first episode about the

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Lord whenever he wants to signal something to us themes come up again and again and again it's important again what's the most important thing

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I think in these questions what we will find most central and important is the word white mm -hmm yeah

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Christian comes up a lot too but white is whites the the big one and I think pointing out that you have a problem with envy you have it towards white people you have it towards white men white male

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Christians this is your issue your issue is is not the fact that we act the way that we do you have a hate in your heart and our

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Lord has a cure for that hate in your heart for whether it be white or whether it be black or any other ethnic group you can think of I think getting towards the the motivation of these things they're signaling to us all the time and that's why we're getting just like inundated and beat down with the questions like we have to answer this the same way over and over again when we can go to the basic motivations rather than because we do we are so careful and we take so much time but how much of it is time wasting rather than getting to the motivations and the heart of things

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I and I know that's been they may sound pretty jaded but they can get tiresome hearing this stuff all over and over and ever enjoy

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Reed's voice as we we heard earlier there's um we did make an assumption that the first question was you know from the atheist perspective but the second question may have been from the

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Christian a Christian perspective or somebody who goes to church at least it the the framing of the question appeared to be a little bit different how do you respond if this

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I hate to put words in the questioners mouth I do but I'm making an assumption that when they said you know the church should be inclusive and diverse this is exactly what every tribe tongue and nation means they're trying to say the

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Bible says every tribe tongue and nation so the church is supposed to be inclusive and diverse and and you're not doing that so aren't you in violation of the text how do you respond to someone who's he who appears to be appealing to the authority and I don't think they're trying to do it to ironically

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I think they're actually I think this person is trying to parse through this it's using it as a support for their position

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I agree I think so but but maybe the maybe the second person is the second question is disingenuous

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I don't know but how would you respond if this person says but your own book or our own book says every tribe tongue a nation we're supposed to be inclusive and diverse how do we respond to that there's there's three things here first of all this is coming from an observation that has long been made the most segregated hour in America is

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Sunday morning church you know there's the trope okay so first of all the assumption is made every single local church needs to look like Revelation chapter 5 okay but that's not what the text says and in fact the praise is coming from the 24 elders that are standing in for all of the nations that are redeemed and the same group gets revisited again in chapter 7 the very same group but this time they're called the hundred and forty four thousand of the tribes of Israel but it's

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Israel re -envisioned in Christ and at the same time even though they're numbered you know 12 times 12 times 10 to the third power which is you know completion completion upon perfection and so on they're also called the multitude which no man can count this is everybody this is the entire scope of all of the nations that are redeemed all at once so yes of course every tribe tongue and nation are seen together at the same time in this glorious vision and all true

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Christians rejoice so this is not about a local isolated church this is about the church the whole

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Bride of Christ all at the same time now I said well shouldn't the local church look like the

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Universal Church shouldn't that be the way that it looks shouldn't our worship on earth be a meaning that which we see in heaven like okay so now let me ask you two more questions when you look at the local church and you're looking for inclusivity and diversity what are you looking for because I would bet that if you're not finding inclusivity and diversity in a local church is because your theology is skin -deep and you are so focused on pigmentation and melanin that you don't understand what diversity is like as a pastor as I think about each family in our congregation all the cultural differences between each family in our congregation the upbringings that were different the histories that are different the different church backgrounds that different families come in some have none at all and all the differences that are in each family and with and within each family as I think about married couples and how they were brought together from diverse backgrounds my only hope for unity day in and day out week in and week out is that we would love

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Jesus and that we would love Christ he's the only reason why we can have unity okay so when you think about a local church if your theology is skin -deep because you're so focused on race because race is everything to you and so you don't see different colors then you would think oh this is not diverse and inclusive but God has made us in his image it doesn't say that God made us in different colors okay so if we're going to find diversity and inclusivity let's let's use

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God's definitions and God's point of view on who we are okay the last observation is this this requirement that a local church should have different skin colors and this biological extension because of a

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Marxist presupposition moves into well you have to have equal number of women and men as on staff and now you have to have people from the

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LGBTQ plus community also favorably represented and you have to have all of these little virtues present in order to be truly diverse and inclusive this requirement for a local church to somehow look all this way to someone's satisfaction of being diverse and inclusive that requirement is never placed on any church in Africa on any church in Asia on any church in Southeast Asia never placed on any church in Chile or Brazil or South Africa or in Lebanon never ever this is an

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American vanity and it is not theological at all is it

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American or is it European because I think this I think this applies to the British and any of the other white countries as well

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Europe thinks America has lost its mind a whole bunch of Europeans think

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America has lost their mind I agree and I think a lot of Americans think that Americans have lost their minds I'm saying like in the church is it not applied in the other white countries as well okay so it is a far less of a deal in Britain you say there are some in Britain in France you're gonna find some of the same pathos mm -hmm but Europe is not monolithic oh

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I agree it's very much is not monolithic right but what's happening is a lot but I'm listening to pastors like in Ireland pastors in the

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UK pastors in France they talk about all the time how they're trying to insulate and protect their church from all of this woke ism coming from evangelical leaders in America and infiltrating their churches and causing havoc and division in their churches because they're being accused of not having the gospel not preaching the gospel because you don't have a proper smattering of pigmentation yeah

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I'm not saying that we're not the ones applying it to Europe because we are I think we're the ones who are exporting it but if you look at where where this is being exported to it is specifically the other white countries right yeah but I'm saying we're the fountain of it

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I agreed I was shocked by I thought it was from Europe over I'm shocked by I didn't know no

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I that's what I'm saying I'm I completely agree but the point you're making is that it is being exported to specifically white countries and no other ethnic there are uniquely

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American theologies yeah there are uniquely American theologies dispensationalism is uniquely

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American and it was UK but is uniquely American it grew here it's prospered here the reason why it's in the rest of the world is because it's uniquely

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American cultivated American focused theology that was then exported and the same thing goes with this

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DEI evangelicalism agreed it's uniquely American and it's being exported elsewhere but we exported dispensationalism to other places other than white countries my

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I think my point is you're right back to the focus yeah the focus of the question the focus of this happening in the church is you're saying again it's skin -deep and it is going to just those who have the white skin of European descended peoples this isn't going to Africa this isn't going to Latin America if it did there'd be more chaos than there is here the only reason it's taken here is because we've had centuries and centuries of relative peace between the

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European peoples and a culture that is colored with Christendom and so we're able to swallow the guilt more readily and not go to not go to blows like the other ethnic groups around the world likely would because those those wounds haven't healed yet as much as ours have

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I think my point is the focus of the question the focus of this stuff in the church we're dealing with things theological but the root motivations are envy for a very specific group and I think when we swallow that pill as the

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American Church we can learn how to deal with it a little more directly and a little more offensively so the examples that we always try to pull out are well what about Africa or what about Latin America well it's not going to go there yeah but it's gonna show up differently so the whole the whole idea of getting getting different groups to be at odds with each other because of disparities is

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Marxism okay so happened in Rhodesia it happened so whatever yeah whatever that whatever that that leverage point is it's not like Marxism was created to cultivate white hate it's just that's what works here and it but it's something else yes where elsewhere yeah

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I agree I completely agree but the what I'm saying is the current iteration of it the current iteration is very specific and it's not it's not morphed in those because if it would if it would they would use a different lever point so whoever works a problem that we're dealing with right now in the

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West is one that is very specific to white Christians or just white people in general yeah so I think part of the challenge as well as when we're saying okay hang on a second before we you know you're in you're gonna try to heap guilt of you know you're not inclusive and diverse enough what about all the nations yeah what what's a nation by the way yeah since you're gonna quote the

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Bible to me about nations let's get into the text and see what what is a nation according to the Bible because you're probably thinking political empires but what does the

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Bible mean when it uses the term Gentiles or ethno what does it mean when it says nations and how do we see nations and how do we see the the church operating in the

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Bible itself and so forth so if we're gonna have that discussion let's have that discussion but this is biblical terms and not import somebody else's a value system and somebody else's dictionary into the scriptures and then create a hash of things and join arm -in -arm with the devil and become the accuser of the brethren right which is really what this this question has has done it's taken the

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Marxist terms of oppressor and oppressor will be back then it was more economic the the lever was their economic of course they use a terrier no

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I mean they use the ethnic issues I mean they they recruited loads of ethnic Jews after World War two and the

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Holocaust because that's what they had the grievances that they had they cover that on Martyr May the like five hour long podcast about communism or that that period of time and that's exactly what they did they used ethnic tensions in the region to say and what they would do is they would say all

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Germans must die that's what they did in East Germany they put the Germans under the boot because they were a lesser being at that point in the in the in the in the in the 40s at this point of 40s yeah yeah after World War 2 even even during World War 2 sure yeah they were whatever would would whatever lever the powers that be needed to use whether it's ethnic whether it's economic and and you know to your point that is the particular lever right now it's effective but the framing of this question is coming from the oppressor and oppressed framing yeah and that is what it says so you as the church need to address these issues that Marxism which hasn't said has identified as problems go and like I reject your premise because you are defining morality using marks or using angles or using somebody else and morality is defined by Christ and and so you have to turn the argument on its head from the very beginning yeah you know there's some of the statements that you've although although historically accurate says see a bunch of white supremacist says no these same terms are applied in other countries that have nothing there's with no white people in them and it's still levers that people will use because there are people are sinners and they love power and they have their envious right like this is the root of most of this stuff is just straight -up envy they're seeking to destroy yeah so in understanding what the assumptions are in the project that's being proposed right the assumption is made that America is one nation made up of all of these different statistics all these different demographics so yeah yeah so we're one nation under demographics you know to be properly represented at every single institution and gathering within a proper demographic everybody has to reflect a man otherwise you're not virtuous this is ignoring the fact that the

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American Empire is filled with many nations and that God is for the nations and he is for the tribes he is for these different peoples and so much so that he rejoices when these nations gather together as as families and greater families and they praise his name and those groups are happy and joyful that other nations are doing the very same thing and they don't mind if they happen to mix but they're not more righteous because they do and they're not those who have the gospel versus those who don't because we have a proper demographic spread represented visually in the same location so in the focus on materialism which is going to be necessary for envy always focusing on materialism then it's you have to have the demographics in a particular location all at the same time it's all about space and matter that's where the focus is that's where the virtue is when the question is like we need to bring this country together the idea is like we've got to have all the different demographics in the same room equally pleased to be there it's it's like a diverse homogeneity like everything everywhere has to be equally diverse yes so at that point it's like okay well all the assumptions that have been laid into this problem are the problem right when someone's like we have a big racist problem in our country the all of the assumptions the the false definitions the illegitimate values the improper hermeneutics all of these things that's what the problem is once you accept those things as your authority and as your basis that's when you have this unsolvable problem that has not been raised to the attention that it has so that anything can be solved this is not a problem to be solved this is an unsolvable problem given the parameters that created it which is all the false information and the false definitions and so forth the wrongheaded questions it creates a problem that has no solution whatsoever because the problem is not supposed to be solved the problem is a tool yeah the problem is a tool to accomplish something else which is division the tool the problem is a tool to create the division so buying into the whole system in the first place and living your life so vitally concerned about this problem is what is contributing to the division long -term any

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Christian anywhere dealing with this can simply say you know what race isn't at the right hand of the father and materialism isn't at the right hand of the father and demographics aren't the right hand of the father but Jesus Christ is and I can rejoice in him and rest in his righteousness and love him and follow him and he will always bring me into the love of my neighbor no matter what anyone else may say and I can do that rejoicing together with my local church it doesn't matter what our skin pigmentation looks like and rest in that and rejoicing it you know you've been preaching through acts and I just this whole conversation is just so foreign to what's happening in the book of Acts you know we follow along with Paul a lot and you know to think he's a

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Jew of the Jewish people but he is going across the globe because he loves

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Christ and he loves the nations and he sees a vision and okay

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I guess we're now we're going to Macedonia because they too are Christ's people this stuff it just it's so all outside of what real

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Christianity is all this this diversity and ethnic homogeneity it's just it's so weird weird is a good weird unnatural it is it's so far away from what

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Christianity is well I think we have sufficiently answered that question as best we can tonight and gone down the rabbit holes that we could but we're gonna move on to our recommendations for this week and we'll start with you

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Michael I've got a book called the person of Christ a biblical and historical analysis of the incarnation by David Wells it's an older book it's part of a series foundations for faith so the person of Christ this is a book that was in the footnotes of another book

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I was reading on the doctrine of Christ by Stephen Wellham I've recommended before but he kept on quoting

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David Wells I'm like well I'm gonna go get David Wells book since you're going to reference him so often and I find it to be shorter and more information dense obviously what

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I'm saying is that it's very rich but I think it's very readable as well I really enjoy

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David's approach to this doctrine his reverence and his warmth as he talks about Christ so as I'm reading everything

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I can think is profitable on the doctrine of Christ the doctrine incarnation highly recommend

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David F Wells this is a little book that I've had on my shelf for a while and I love this thing this was given to me years ago because a phrase

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I kept using was well worst -case scenario this this this worst -case scenario well and then my friends started calling me worst -case

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Dave and as officer thinking and then so I was gifted the worst -case scenario survival handbook and it is it's indestructible

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I mean it's it's it is so funny so little things like you know how to fend off a shark we have how to fend off a shark how to escape from a bear how to jump from a building into a dumpster how to leap from a motorcycle into a car you know things how do you know how to treat frostbite you know how to treat a leg fracture some of those seem more practical than others yeah well you know how to survive if your parachute fails to open you know these are great so I'm gonna pass this around because this is one of the funniest books that I kept reading through hold on a second before I touch this has this been in the bathroom no because this seems like a bathroom but you just said it you know you got your little shelf of stuff to read

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I'll just thumb through this you went to the worst -case scenario this would be a great not belong you know but no no it's never been in the bathroom basket how to identify a bomb how to identify a bomb it's self -critiquing how to land a plane yeah

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I did I needed that one you can critique it and it's just it goes like two to three pages for each individual scenario and it just it just makes me laugh every single time because it's it's so serious and you know and there's there's others like how to foil an alien objection you know there's some they're more useful than others but you know if you want to know how to escape from quicksand or wrestle an alligator the worst -case survival handbook by Joshua Piven and David Borschnick there's a

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German name is it may be for you so I looked at this I was looking through recommendations and and I have several that I want to bring to the group but this was just too funny that I needed to let you guys know that this you were listening all of that sounded like episodes of Tintin oh yeah you know give it for those of you have boys you know give it to them they may need that someday

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I need one for my bathroom anyway so I really

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I'm in a phase of life where I don't have as much leisure reading time so whether it's school studies or preparing for Sundays for a

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Sunday school I really don't have as much but I will say don't be tempted to walk away from the simplicity in Christ that we all have reading the scriptures is a rich journey and do not neglect it

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I'll just leave it at that very good very good amen well I'm giving you a recommendation that somebody else recommended to me this is the song of Roland that was recommended to me by Jacob Cole our resident

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French scholar there was much discussion about the Crusades recently and our men's group and so he recommended this as a piece of there is a poem written during the time of he what he told me was the third

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Crusade I didn't confirm so he could be wrong I could be wrong but the song of Roland and the translation is by Michael a

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H new it's actually a pretty interesting read as it is really focused on loyalty to Christ and loyalty to one's country and King and a very strict code of conduct and honor and there's betrayal there's dealing with outside enemy and it's actually a really interesting listen especially

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I think the author did or the translator did a decent job of trying to bring across the at least the how it sounds from the

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French to the English which would be difficult to do but he seemed to have done that as I'd listen to just a bit in French I had no idea what was being said but the cadence and the meter and the sound was very very similar so I really appreciated the efforts of the translator in that trying to at least bring a little bit of that across even though you can't get it all across so that's the song of Roland translation by Michael a

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H newth we'll move on to what are we thankful for Michael I'm thankful for the Crusades went there actually

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I'm thankful for God who works all things together for the good of those who love him and who are called according to his purpose and that no matter what difficult and chaotic time we live through and are called to be faithful in our hope and our confidence is always in the

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Lord who governs and governs for our good in his glory David I am thankful for our small group of men that we can shoot questions to we have a group chat that we occasionally will post stuff to and it's okay to ask you know questions or make statements that maybe the larger group the larger church should be a little bit more hesitant to ask so it's kind of a you know once a safe space because you'll take some spears just for fun you know you ask your question but bam bam bam you'll get you'll get hit but then once once we get the the ribbing over you can really get your questions addressed in a thoughtful careful manner by people that love you and so I'm thankful that we have this group and I'm thankful that we have the technology where we can share that kind of stuff even even you know those of us are you know several time zones away or you know during across the country so I'm very very thankful for that amen

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Andrew you know I've said this before man it's obviously this this topic of race comes up a lot but I thank

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God for the series of events of the gospel going from Israelites across this planet by the work of many different ethnically aligned

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Christians followers of the way the Christ and to be part of the number of the innumerable is the most thankful thing

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I can be I mean along the lines of the question and your thankfulness Andrew I'm thankful to Lord that there are men who come from dark places or places that have not had the gospel before and they come they receive it they believe they repent and they take it back to their tribe and they take it back to their people because they love their people and it is good to love your people it isn't good to love your family it is good to prefer those good things about your family and about your people those preferences are not bad and so to to bring it back to your your people the most precious gift the most precious precious message that the world has the only thing that he that we have been given to cross ethnic lines for any form of unity at all to bring that back to your people to avoid the eternal damnation that awaits anybody outside of the new covenant and to avoid even temporal now disasters that come with a people group who are outside of the new covenant outside of Christ there are consequences to that as well and to come back and bring bring the gospel to your tribe to your people

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I'm so thankful for those men those men through history those men that I know personally that have done that and have built covenant communities of churches in their homeland and networks that are reaching out not just to their people on on their island or in their country but even to now the other the other ones around them because they saw that how good it was for their tribe and they want it for other tribes and they don't feel like they have to they have to press everybody in to the same meat grinder and make it look all the same coming out on the other side no they're able to give men a very precious gift that they can go give themselves crisis just sufficient for our unity ethnicity is insufficient for unity mm -hmm it's just it's it's it's that simple you're the this idea my my people group

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I can't we come from a very similar background yeah they were pagans my idol worshippers yeah