Church Discipline (pt-1) - [Matthew 18]

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Reckon let's turn to Matthew 18 tonight as you're turning there. We're going to look at church discipline we've gone over this quite a bit, but I Just thought not because the whole church is up in arms
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What about church discipline but? Just so we can understand it and work through it and I've never preached on the subject before and so we'll take a little break in the parable series and tonight we'll look at five or six passages in the
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Bible that teach this and as we look at all Five or six passages then we can get a good biblical understanding for what we call church discipline
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Speaking of Southern Baptists Al Mohler who's the president of Southern Seminary? And by the way,
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Brian Bartlett talked to Al and dr. Mullen. He said he would come here and preach at the church So we're hoping that will happen next year
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Al said the most visible failure in local churches is the absence of church discipline
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He said quote if we tolerate sin within our body Within our own congregation, then what right do we have to talk to the world about sin that is there?
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You know, the Bible doesn't give us a whole list of rights of privacy as a matter of fact, the Bible is very intrusive and The early church lived together accountable to each other for the way they maintain their marriages and the way they raise their children
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I've got a question for you If you think church discipline has done few and far between now
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What will it be like beloved in the next 20 years when everybody? Who's not on the church growth bandwagon hops on that bandwagon
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How do you do church discipline with all the church growth issues that are out there? It's very difficult
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All right. I have a question and tonight. I want you to give me answers out loud if you will What makes a church?
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That is to say what's the difference between a church and a home Bible study? What's the difference between a church and a parachurch organization?
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Could anybody tell me? How do you distinguish a church from something else, you know Christians can get together
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We can go to a Jonathan Edwards conference and we could go to an awana conference and there are good things
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But they're not churches. And so what is a church? Heather Okay, good.
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So you've got you have to be regenerate and then you have to have Godly leaders ordained leaders.
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Excellent. Good. What else? Okay, we're in some other organizations.
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Maybe if they're non -staffed people or non -paid people There wouldn't be as much or something like that Let me focus the question down a little bit more
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Back in the Reformed days when they would try to fight with the Roman Catholics to say are you a church?
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Or are you not a church? What did what did some of the Reformed confessions say were essential elements to a local church?
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I had three And of course that what the Reformers say doesn't really matter, but I think you'll see these are biblical points
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Nate Okay preaching of the word you've got to have the word what would we be without the word
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Okay, and they would call them sacraments the right Observation and implementation of the sacraments being baptism in the
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Lord's table and thank you for calling them ordinances in this Baptist Environment of which I endorse.
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Thank you And the third one, did you hear that the practice of church discipline?
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You had to have the preaching of the word the Invisible Word as from let's just strike that you had to preach you the word you have the ordinances and you have church discipline
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Can you imagine that? Matter of fact some of these places that don't do church discipline today. Do you think you could even call them a church?
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Social clubs, maybe fellowship groups that kind of thing, but I'm very concerned about that.
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Here's the Belgic confession Preaching a pure doctrine the administration of the sacraments and the exercise of church discipline
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R .c. Sproul said the church is called not only to a ministry of reconciliation But a ministry of nurture to those within our gates, but part of that nurture includes church discipline
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If I ask you for a definition of church discipline, what would you tell me? Anybody you can either raise your hand or you can just Shout it out.
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What's the definition of church discipline? I Think it's essential. We know Jesus teaches it
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It's interesting to find that our church was full again this Sunday because you never know what's gonna happen after you do church discipline
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You come back the next week. How many people show up Steve? Okay, very good.
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Did you hear that addressing sin? Addressing the sin of a brother or sister with the idea of restoration
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That's good Can make it a little more complete. That's very good and succinct Why would we want to do that?
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Give me some reasons why we want to do church discipline and that may help us with our definition Okay, it's commanded.
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So we might glorify God by just obedience Bruce There that's one of the big ones that I was after the purity of the body.
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I think Farmer's Almanac even says a Little leaven what how pure do you want it when you want pure water?
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Do you want it 99 % pure of arsenic? It's 99 % pure and so we look at the purity of the bride and we know we won't be there until glory, but we have the desire to be there because Leviticus is quoted in 1st
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Peter chapter 1 God says I want you to be holy why as I'm holy it's about purity.
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It's about the purity of a local church I did some research in the last week God's Word Psalm 12 is pure God demands his people to be pure Matthew 5 48
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He wants his shepherds to be pure first Timothy 3 and 4 and he wants purity in the church because it
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Distinguishes itself from the world then Well, we'll get to the Bible, but let me ask you a few other questions
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Why do people refrain from doing church discipline? They're afraid they'll lose membership.
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Okay Sorry It's confrontational good.
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Keep going Bill certainly it goes against what society does now
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Good. Sorry It's way easier not to I Like to preach and kind of be bold with preaching and and be confrontive sometimes and stuff like that But I hate to confront people
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It's it's at the you know I know here's the a thing on my list to do today is confront and somehow by the end of the day nine o 'clock
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I'm thinking to myself Is there any way I can get out of this? I mean, I don't like to do it Maybe some of you have the gift of confronting but I don't know if that's a spiritual gift or not.
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I don't think it is It's hard Like I said last week of the decision -making. It's hard to discipline your kids, isn't it?
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It's hard to tell them. No, we love them Some that I found this week.
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They don't know how to do it exactly some people say well that would be judging right that's somehow judging and they would fall for the
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Fallacy of taking Matthew 7 and just reading the beginning instead of reading on where it says, but you are to judge self
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Righteously, no, but to judge righteously not selfish right self righteously. How about this one? You might get sued
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We may change our Constitution after my study this week in our Constitution It says that if you get caught in sin with gentleness and humb humility
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With an idea of restoration that the elders will go after you and it's steps one two, three four But what one of the writers
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I Was interacting with this week said that you should probably put in your Constitution that if the member is in sin according to the
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Bible that they will not Exercise any kind of they will not basically they won't sue you
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I mean they still could even though they sign that but that might be one more way to protect I'll never forget the time and I won't even mention the church church in the
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Midwest the guy had Millions upon millions of dollars, I mean
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Millions he built that church and I mean literally built it and you walk into this beautiful sanctuary
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You go outside and you see the duck pond full of ducks and geese the bridge that goes over it it was on probably 50 acres of land and it was a beautiful and I'll never forget because the grace a master seminary student went there and the man who bought all that land
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Had a daughter and that daughter was involved in sin Immoral sin and the church leadership got together and pleaded with her and begged her and wanted to restore her
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And she wouldn't do it. She wouldn't go back to her husband And so the church leadership said well, we're gonna have to announce your
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Name to the church She called her dad and the dad called up and said if you announce my daughter's name from the church
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I built this church and I will bury this church And I've got enough money to put you in lawsuits to make you close your doors
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What would you do if it's right it's right it's not your church.
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It's not your church building. It's not your people It's the Lord's and so you just have to trust to do the right thing.
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You can't get bogged down in situational ethics Well, if I if I compromise here then such -and -such will happen anyway, the church is still standing today and that man who
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I think was probably saved is since deceased and I don't know even know what happened to the lady.
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How about this? Let me ask you a question. It's not loving Somebody said to you you sure go to an unloving church.
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How would you respond? They do church discipline. That's so unloving Okay, Karen How about a
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Hebrews chapter 12? How do you know that you're a son? How do you know you're a daughter because he lovingly chastens us?
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I think I said it last week, but I don't chase in other people's kids At least not physically Although I want to I only do it verbally
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You know, and I I don't I'm not I don't want to chase in other people's kids And so one of the reasons why my kids know they're my kids is because I give them loving discipline
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What else would you say that's not loving how about this
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I rarely quote Finney because Finney You don't want to read
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Finney I Hate to say he denied the penal substitution. He doesn't believe in Christ meritorious death on the cross at Calvary He's got all kinds of weird views.
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I hope Finney's in heaven But if he believes if he believes what he wrote, I doubt it, but Finney did say something, right?
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I mean a broken clocks right twice a day, right? Finney said if you this was a sermon title reproof a
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Christian duty If you see your neighbor sin and you pass by and neglect to refute reprove him it is just as cruel as if you should see his house on fire and pass by and not warn him of it and Quote church discipline is not a witch hunt.
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It is not a way to get even it is not a way for the elders to Say you've offended me and I'm gonna make you pay
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It's not an investigation of some rumor. Let's find out what it is
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Hebrews Matthew chapter 18 first passage question so far could be any kind of question
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All right. Let's keep going Matthew chapter 18 verse 15. These words must be more important because they're in red
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No, they're inspired by God and the Holy Spirit and moved along in 2nd Peter chapter 1 as it describes there
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And they're just as important as every other book and including Obadiah What's the theme of Obadiah?
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Matthew 18 15. Did you see the context a couple verses before about a sheep that's lost and Leaving the 99 and getting the one and if your brother sins
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Matthew 18 15 go Reprove him in private now when you study the
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Bible beloved Would you do something that I like to do first ask yourself the question? What does this not say in other words?
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It says this but by saying that it means that but he could have said other things. He could have said
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Start the prayer chain at the church. Did you hear so -and -so now sometimes the prayer chains excellent
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I praise God that Laura Nelson sometimes calls and says pastor. I know sometimes you don't hear What's going on?
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And here's somebody in the hospital. I thought you needed to know praise God for that But sometimes prayer chains can get out of control
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Doesn't say anything except go to him. I could say go to him alone alone's not in the scripture, but it's certainly implied
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And this is going to take courage it's going to take resolve first of all, it's it's going to take an attitude that says
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I like to have my sins covered like the next guy and It's a glory to cover transgressions.
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Love covers a multitude of sins and for the spouses that Are together you you live with a spouse and you realize how much you sin and you could sin all the time
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They sin against you all the time and you know You just if you confront each other I think ten times a day,
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I think that's too much When it has to be done because fellowship has been broken. The purity of church is at stake you go and reprove him in private
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What does reprove mean? It means to convict to confront or to bring to light.
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It's exactly what that word means with the idea of Redemption, of course same word when
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Jesus said the Spirit will come He will come to convict the world regarding sin and judgment and righteousness
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Proverbs 27 5 better is an open rebuke than love that is concealed Did you get that better is open rebuke than love that's concealed
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Bruce? sure Well for the tape and for everyone else
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What if somebody has not even not even attending church anymore and now they're bringing other Christians into sin by their attitudes.
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What do you do? It's difficult and almost With all these things here from the
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Elder Board as we look at scriptures It's almost case -by -case in terms of what do we do and how do we go about it?
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Now maybe I could say this if somebody's not a church member and they're long gone It's hard to kind of resurrect something from two years ago and say now, you know
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They've left the church because they say they don't believe and then now they're causing a problem So it becomes more difficult But what people don't understand is they only see church discipline at three and four most of time
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Right step one go to your brother step to bring two or three step three. Tell to the church step four
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Excommunicate him. You don't really the whole congregation doesn't see very many of those steps except towards the end, right?
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So a lot of the church discipline that goes on shouldn't even be with the Elder Board and I think if you know a friend Are you know someone whether they were affiliated with this church or not?
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And you know that they are dragging others into sin as you should go and try to win them Now you go to step two and you brag
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Drag two other friends with you for witnesses that we'll get to in just a second and you confront them again Then and when it comes to telling the church
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It's almost as if you can't take the next step because there's not part of the body and we say well You know, this person doesn't even come to our church
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So now we're church discipline them, but I think for sure you should do one and two out of love for God and love for your friends
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It's very very difficult and typically what happens is when people get into sin, they want to leave anyway
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Right, so they're in the church. They leave you don't see them for a month or two. You call them up How's everything going you find out there's some kind of sin
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They're on the run and then church discipline from one through four is going to take you about nine months or twelve months to do
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Anyway, allowing the Spirit of God time for repentance and everything else. It just takes a long time Some people aren't even really part of the body by the time the whole process is over because they want to run
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I Think it's rare to announce somebody's name from the pulpit at step three and have them still be in the congregation
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It's a rare thing because the time has gone on for so long and they want to run sin hides
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So without knowing any more of the details, I would say at least you could do steps one and step two even though this person went to HYZ Church down the street and They're long gone off the rolls
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Sometimes people will leave a church for right reasons Oh I I disagree with doctrine or I'm gonna go move over here or whatever and then they move and What you didn't know is that they were moving also because they had some kind of sin issue
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That they were trying to run from so then they've been gone for a year and now you find out some sin that they've got Do you go after him?
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It's very very difficult So I have to say and I'm not trying to skirt the issues. I'm just saying it's almost case -by -case
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So if you want to talk about it in private after I will okay, so there's the first one
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One on one and you might ask these questions How could you we wouldn't want to do it that way if you're in if so if you're in sin
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How do you like to be approached? I Don't fall into that sin, but you do
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No you go Yeah, I I saw this
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I overheard that My own eyes, I'm not going taking somebody else's offense
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You don't do church discipline when somebody says I heard so -and -so's in sin you hear about it
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And then you go to them No, you see it or you hear it and you go to them and say I saw you do such -and -such matter of fact
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I've seen you do it a couple times. I just tried to ignore it I just tried to let it go But you're caught in a pattern and I love you enough to come and talk to you about it.
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You do it the right way then verse 16 or verse 15 if He listens to you not just with his ears
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But listens to obey there's lots of passages in John 5 and John 9 about listening meaning obey if he obeys great
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You've won your brother great There's nothing like telling another
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Christian. Not only do I forgive you but God is faithful and just to forgive those who sin
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God cleanses sinners for 16 if he does not listen to you Take One or two more with you by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed
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I'm reading from the NES and mine are pretty much all capitals. What does that signify in your translations a
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Quote and that quote is from where? The Old Testament Deuteronomy So you would go and you have two or three witnesses secular context or theocracy context but still an abiding principle
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Deuteronomy 1915 a single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin
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Which he has committed on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed That's the biblical fat pattern two or three by the way.
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I love the Old Testament Especially I I'm on the receiving end of accusations about myself more as a pastor than I was a seminary student
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But what I love is in the Old Testament Did you know if you went and you confronted somebody and you tried to make them?
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Be publicly rebuked publicly chastened Disciplined and if you couldn't prove that they did it in other words
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You were trying to just run them out of town what you wanted done to them was done to you The punishment for the crime you alleged for them to have was actually performed on you
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Wouldn't that take care of a lot of these issues in our society today and even in the church? You can't prove that that person did it and then all right
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I'm gonna make the accusation and I can't prove it Then I have to pay the punishment that I wanted that person to have
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I think that would take care of a lot of issues But he has this
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Old Testament principle. And by the way, why do two and three go do these these
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Two or three witnesses these one or two that you take with you so it's a total of two or three Why do you have them go do they have to also see the sin or is there a different reason why they're going?
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So we have option a you have to two people or three people have to see somebody sinning before we can go
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Is that it? Okay so witnesses not to the offense are the sin between a brother and a sister our brother and a brother or sister and sister but to see what was going on to confirm the fact that they have gone in love and tried and It also
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I think brings to weight more of a serious nature I've never had it happen and I hope it never happens to me
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But if somebody ever knocked on my door, I have had it happen where someone said, you know, Mike You did this and that's not right and I've said oh, please forgive me and I don't want to do that But I've never had this where the doors being knocked and you have the two or three
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And if I saw the two or three, I would be frightened wouldn't you there's just something more weighty than that two or three
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There's gonna be a comment back here No, okay So it's not because you have to see what's happening because it's confirming in terms of the interaction there
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It's giving more weight and seriousness because somebody's showing up and by the way
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These steps have to be done. And so when we have church discipline cases at the churches If you call people who are in sin and say hi,
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I'd like to get together And by the way, I'm gonna bring one or two elders with me. What time do you want to meet for lunch? It's very very difficult
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Why do these things take such a long time? It's because people were going to say no you have to show up at their work
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You have to show up outside their home You have to sit in the car and wait with the elders out in front of people's homes because who's going to say please yes
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Because typically sinners run sin hides And if you notice the text two or three witnesses, so every fact may be confirmed.
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By the way, this takes the Scandalous offenses away too because if someone says oh,
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I've got something against you and I'm gonna push it I'm gonna tell the church and I'm running you out of town Say someone to a pastor and then you're like, okay fine
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Bring a couple witnesses because then I'll tell you in front of the witnesses You don't have any idea what you're talking about and you have a self -promoting agenda
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So then the two witnesses are like wow this guy's who's bringing the accusations He doesn't know what he's talking about and then it dissipates
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The word confirmed there means made to stand
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Verse 17 boy, we're not getting very far turning a one -night topic into a
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Eight part series if he refuses to listen to them tell it to the elder board
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Tell it to the bishop. Tell it to the Senate. Tell it to your missionary board.
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Tell it to your Ladies group tell it to your what tell it to the church
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Who refuses to listen even the church then be to you as a Gentile and to a tax gather?
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outsiders And we get the word excommunicate because it's a Latin word It means out of sharing or out of communication.
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And by the way, very very interesting. Look at the text in verse 17 If he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you
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Would you guess that to be plural or singular and why? Let him be to you singular or plural and why it's trick.
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It's tricky It's obviously got to be plural. Let him be to you the church because the church has just been told but it's not it's singular
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Let him be to you individually that make up the church as a tax gather
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You can't have the church in other words say this person has to be removed from our fellowship, but you individually on the side
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You're loving you're kind. Please come over. Anyway, it's okay. The church is harsh.
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These people don't know what they're doing I'd never handle it that way Let him be to you singular very important and then the verses that have
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Of course have been taken out of context so often verse 18 and 19 truly I say to you whatever you shall bind on earth
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You that go with the one and two and tell it to the church and then excommunicate Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven because you're doing what
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God has already planned done Whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven when the person says please forgive me
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I repent And I've had people in my office do that many times. Please forgive me and repent. I Say, you know,
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I love to forgive you and God would love to forgive you too. It's loosened Again, I say to you that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask
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Hear that in prayer meetings a lot. I agree with what said here. It's church discipline It shall be done for them by my father who is in heaven
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For where two or three have gathered together in my name in the church discipline context
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There I am in their midst questions so far that's kind of like the procedure steps one two, three and four and Beloved I encourage you not to be going around rebuking everybody all the time
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We all sin and fall short But I encourage you when you see someone who's stuck in a ditch to help get them out and go to them and love them
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Help them. All right. Let's go to another passage if you had to pick another
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Bible passage that yes pretty Deep that's a good question.
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And part of my answer is going to be Stay tuned for next week because I'm going to give you the list of things in the
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Bible that people got excommunicated for But some of the more trivial things in interpersonal reactions and interactions, you know
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We all offend and we're offended easily and there's some things that we just have to cover. I mean it is true First Peter chapter 4 says we are in the last days.
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And what does he say? You're in the last days What do you think we should do? Get on the get on the roof and paint an
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SOS sign on there and get our water from BJ's and you know at the World's ending. I mean, what does it say strikingly enough be hospitable?
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pray and cover other people's sins and So let's say I said to you pretty pretty
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I'm going to call you and we need to get together for breakfast I don't call you and you say a band
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Roth should be a man of his word his yes should be Yes, and his no should be no I expect more out of a pastor than that He didn't call me and I'm offended you could say to yourself.
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Well, you know nine times out of ten I forget to call people too. So I will just give him to the benefit of the doubt or maybe you say
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Mike I can't get over this. It's we've got a wedge between us You said you would call and you didn't and I would say, you know, what pretty
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I mean, I hope I don't do this but I Hope I don't just blow you off.
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But if I did I would say pretty you know what I should be a man of my Word if I say something I want to be trusted and I should have honored my word pretty.
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Would you please forgive me? And you say I forgive you. So those things are cleared up easily I could say hey pretty per you trying to apply to me the same standards you apply to yourself
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Or to your wife or vice versa and back and forth so it's more difficult That's why you won't see many church discipline cases for gluttony
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For I didn't have I didn't keep my promise of being on time Why because they're easily repented of if you pull somebody into your office because let's say they're even a gossip
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So you catch somebody gossiping all the time you pull them into the office and say, you know I've just heard from my own mouth you gossip on several occasions
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You're tearing people down so you can build yourself up and you just can't do that here anymore What do they typically do?
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I struggle my husband. I want him to hold me accountable to this It's you know,
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I don't want to do it. It's the response when you say, you know, who are you? You know, who are you you're not my brother's keeper
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You're not my keeper and off it goes into that because then it starts revealing other things I'd say nine out of ten church discipline cases that I've seen with my own eyes and been at and involved in having to be some kind of Sexual and morally a moral thing that it's just it's it's so binding and people that are so caught up in it that they won't say
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No They won't say they repent Galatians 5 let's turn there now for those of you that already know
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Matthew 18 and We've been dealing with that. How about Galatians 5?
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How do you what kind of treatment? Do you give other people who are sinning? Do you get the scarlet letter and nail it on their head?
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This is so good Galatians 5 Walking in the spirit versus walking in the flesh
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Galatians 5. What are some of the fruit of the what's the fruit of the spirit? Who can give me some? Love good.
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Joy. Peace Patience faithfulness.
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Yeah Luke Sorry Kindness good. What's the last one by the way?
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Self -control those are all what we call attitude fruit, right? They're all attitude fruit
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He says you're gonna walk in the spirit Here's your attitude and he gives those ten in Galatians 5 22 through 23 for action fruits
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What does he you think that he'll what two illustrations of action fruit? Does he give? surprisingly enough very surprisingly he gives helping a brother in sin and financial giving the fruit of the spirit for your attitude is love and joy and peace and The action fruit is that and the attitude fruit is that and the action fruit is if you've got a brother who's sinning
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Here's what you do. And here's how you handle your money one through five six through ten Amazing context.
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It's it's quite simple to say I'm walking in the fruit of the spirit. I'm walking in the spirit without doing these things
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Galatians chapter 6 verse 1 these are so sweet Brethren you can just hear
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Paul if any man is caught in any trespass Trespass is not the word for I'm shooting an arrow and I missed the mark
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It's here's the line that God says don't cross over and the purpose the man purposely or the woman high -handedly steps over across that line
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It's a trespass. No trespassing signs out here. Just step over it He says if they're caught in a trespass you who are spiritual who's that?
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Pastor and the ever -growing staff Again this week I was asked well, you have two associate pastors.
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I said, yes We have two associate pastors praise God for the two associate pastors But we don't have one and kind of a bumper car mode mode
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One's there and then the other one bumps the other one off We have two associate pastors and by the way, I praise
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God for Dave and Steve Can you imagine a church like ours out in the middle of who knows where small little congregation?
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And we have these two guys to serve here I Mean how many churches this size have guys kill the caliber of these guys have have men like these men
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Keeps me on my toes, by the way Just try to stay one day ahead of them You who are spiritual those of you who are walking according to the
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Spirit in chapter 5 Those are the spiritual ones who have the fruit of the Spirit It could be elders, but it doesn't need to be it's those who are
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Obeying God and walking in the Spirit. It's not those that's why it's so stupid to say I struggle with heroin
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So I think I'll get together with my heroin group with ten other users who all struggle We'll all get together to hold each other up No you go find people who are walking in the
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Spirit and who are not perfect nobody's perfect, but who Realize their position in Christ and live it out so they can help these weak ones
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And the word that's the most important in all this for church discipline is right there in chapter 6 verse 1
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Restore, that's the one you should circle. That's the key to church discipline restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness
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Restore means to put back in order it used to mean if you had a bone that was broken to set that bone
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Sometimes that hurts doesn't it? We could probably use that as an illustration. You've got a broken bone and it needs to be set
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It's kind of like my son or my daughter they scrape their knees and I say we got to put some medicine on that and whatever they
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Whatever else they say they say is that the kind of the boo -boo? Medicine is that the ouch medicine the stinging medicine or is that the kind of feeling good medicine?
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And so I say well, I'm gonna put my citrates anointment on there back to Tran or whatever it is I'm not gonna put the stinging kind although once in a while.
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I just like to joke You've done that to your knee I'm gonna get the super hot pepper stinging medicine to put on you and you can just see them like Well here it may hurt but the purpose is restoration.
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It's like an adjustment to restore to its former condition and It's a present tense, by the way
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Have to be patient have to have perseverance look at the your attitude in a spirit of gentleness
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Wow exact same word from Galatians chapter 5 fruit of the Spirit is what gentleness you have to do it gently
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You have to be considering you have to be looking you have to be paying attention Bear one another's burdens and thus fulfill the law of Christ this royal law someone has a burden remember pilgrim
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He's so burdened with all those sins on his back God releases all those when he saves him Christians can have burdens too and you can notice when they have the burdens and you want to go and help them
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You have to be careful though because we can underdo things and overdo things if anyone thinks he is something
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You're the spiritual one. You're going to help the person who's ensnared or enslaved or trapped He can't get out of it.
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And that's what the word means. He's stuck in the sin He needs somebody to help and you come along thinking I'd never fall to that sin.
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I can help people like this every that's my job I'm always helping people like this Why don't they just get over it if anyone thinks he's something when he is nothing
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In Christ, we're in Christ, but it's only because of Christ. We we bring nothing to to Christ.
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It's salvation Don't be conceited because you'll deceive yourself Don't be hypercritical because you'll be deceiving yourself
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But let each one examine his own work when you're going to help people in sin. Be careful Examine his own work and he will have reason for boasting regard himself alone
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And not in regard to one another be careful Each one shall bear his own load.
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Okay. So first we saw kind of the four steps now we saw the attitude There's a few other passages.
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Should we do one more? Kids are sleeping, but we'll just do one more. Okay First Timothy 5 let's go there.
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This one is the context of elders, but Let's do this one. Anyway, and we'll hit first Corinthians chapter 5 and Revelation 2 and Acts chapter 5 and Revelation 2 and Revelation 5 for next time
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All right, Paul is writing to Timothy Timothy is an elder Timothy is a pastor It's a pastoral epistle and to show you that it's the context of elders is in first Timothy chapter 5 verse 17
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Let the elders who rule well, some people say well, we don't want to call ourselves elder rule church We should call ourselves elder leadership church.
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It's elders who rule Well manage will be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching
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So the context is elders by the way, that word honor is where we get the word Honorarium if you go and teach in a few weeks
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Steve will go down to Calvary Baptist Church in Hartford. I have a friend there
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Steve and I have a mutual friend and he's going to be on vacation And so he needs somebody to fill the pulpit. I said Steve would love to fill the pulpit
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I'd love to fill the pulpit Dave. I think you've been there to preach haven't you? And so Steve I would imagine after he's done.
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They will give him an honorarium Timmy an honorarium Just kind of honor for and one of the greatest passages for the
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Bible and Substantiating Christ's Word is the Bible for the scriptures say are for the scripture says
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You shall not muzzle the ox where he is threshing. Where's that found by the way? Deuteronomy 25 for so Underneath the
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Spirit of God's inspiration Paul is calling Torah Scripture and the labor is worthy of his wages.
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Where's that from? Luke 10 calling what Jesus said the scriptures. Can you imagine
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Paul calling Torah and what Jesus said the scriptures? I love that little passage
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Paid the guy in other words If you're gonna let an ox Thresh let him chew some grass same thing with pastor
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So that's all put it in context Same thing with pastors and elders do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses
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What does that mean did you notice I did not say what does that mean to you? What does that mean?
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Some nuances in here that you have to be careful of because we got the two and three witness deal in here Okay. So now instead of taking two or three taking one or two to make two or three to go to confront
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Okay, I won't I won't tell you what I think first. All right.
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So here's what happens and can I use you as an illustration Lewis? Okay That's closing prayer
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Let's say Myself or Dave or Steve or any of the other elders are Lewis we sin against you
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Can you come to us and say you've offended me you've sinned against me. You've not followed up You said something that was inappropriate to my family or you know, you've done something or whatever it is.
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Could you do that? Of course you can that's Matthew 18 But Paul is writing to Timothy, isn't he?
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Paul is saying Timothy an elder a pastor you better not receive accusations against other elders except on the basis of two or three witnesses now the witnesses are
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Those witnesses to the crime if you will, it's not a crime crime is against the state sin is against God They've seen the elder do something now
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They come to the pastor or the other elders and say that other elder you've got is in a bunch of sin
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I am personally Personally, I don't think I rate so high that I think
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Satan's after me for those people like Satan's after me Satan I rebuke you Satan.
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I bind you. I think you've got to be a pretty big shot to have Satan after you There's only one
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Satan and he's not omnipresent Is he but I think demons probably go after pastors and elders more than they go after the average bear
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Don't you get the leadership and then everybody else is gone. That's just biblical So there's lots of accusations that Satan wants to have against pastors even and elders even though they might not sin
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He's called the blasphemer. Anyway, he's called what is he called? Adversity adversary, what else is he called?
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Diabolos double -tongued he's called all kinds of things so Here's what should happen
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Somebody comes to me and says Lewis did such -and -such You know what?
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I say I say I've known Lewis for a long time There's only you're only here and it's your word against his and I can't receive that and I am going to hold you accountable to go talk to Lewis about this issue and If you don't go and talk to him,
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I'm gonna tell him you have an issue with him I will not receive that accusation because the passage is a pastoral epistle where I can't receive accusations against another elder without witnesses
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Now if they he goes to Lewis and says, you know, we get it all worked out fine It's fine.
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But if it's not worked out God hasn't worked in such a way that those elders in sin
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Eventually are going to be found out. So two or three people will see and Then they say we've been to Lewis privately.
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He won't repent. And so now we're coming to the elder board We've got our two or three witnesses that have seen him do it
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And we want to make sure this church is pure. Do you get the difference? This is not you can't receive an accusation against an elder just as a layperson
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This is another elder can't do that. I think you have to be very careful And so here it's almost this protection because I'll never forget that day where?
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Some lady was trying to discipline John MacArthur. I told you the story
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And so she went to the elder board kind of thing or some of the elders and John MacArthur is making advances towards me
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Well, really? What kind of advances he looks at me with that kind of?
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bad look That that look that only he should have for his wife He looks at me like that from the pulpit all the time
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Come to find out she did that to the her last pastor that she was at a church. These things are frivolous.
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They're scurrilous They're scandalous and you just have to kick him out They're no good and there's all kinds of accusations that come down to the elders that are those very same things
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And so I've been on the receiving end of those things and I'd say all right Well, tell me your witnesses if you're gonna have me those kind of things and I defy you
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I dare you to come to me with witnesses and to this day I have people who don't think
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I should be a pastor and I just say to them Please I'm waiting for that door to knock when there's one two or three of you at that door
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Don't receive an accusation elder Timothy against an elder on the basis except on the basis of two or three witnesses
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And by the way, God has a way of sniffing out those who are in sin, doesn't he? He'll get him out.
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He'll move him out verse 20 those elders
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Context who continue in sin Isn't some all and here's an added purpose to church discipline
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So that the rest Of the elder board, but also implied the congregation may be fearful of sinning
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You're gonna continue in sin. You're gonna get announced on the pulpit that that I never can
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I bill can I tell your story? You sure? Bill Falcone the first time we had church discipline that went to stage three and stage four was six or seven years ago
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How many was that right bill? Bill's first day at Bethlehem Baptist Church We've only had to do it twice
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That was the first time it's ever been done here And I had to stand up and read somebody's name from the pulpit along Matthew 18
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Bill's first day here What do you think bill would do? I? Think there were some visitors here last week as well.
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I don't know if they were here this week But you know people are out of town and everything else Bill can you just tell the congregation what you said after you were here that day?
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Doesn't that just strike you in a wonderful way yet an odd way this is the church for me because if I Go off the wrong path.
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This is the church for me because they'll come and get me And he's still here
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And the falcone family is growing in leaps and bounds one two and one in the oven as well.
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I went two weeks away Two weeks away that is great
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Isn't the lord good bill. Oh god. Give me a wife He who
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Finds a wife finds a good thing. You have to look though Don't you for you young men out there who are single you got to look?
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Got to ask Can't be lazy go out there and find him he finds a way
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Karen gives me an amen It's almost a good little comic relief when you have church discipline issues
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But it's not because it's unloving. It's loving love of God for his word love of the person that you'd actually do it
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We don't want to do it all the time. We're not looking to do it all the time. I hate to do it I think I've got two associate pastors now frankly probably the next time it happens
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That's a good delegated item because I don't really want to do that. Let somebody else share that When there are accusations against you
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Probably the first thing you can do is say god you let me hear this accusation for a reason I didn't think
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I did it, but i'll examine my heart. I'll search to see if those things are true and god I want to honor you
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And I don't want our church to go around confronting everybody and rebuking everybody But if somebody has sinned against you and you cannot just dismiss it, you cannot just cover it
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You cannot just say, you know I know they're stressed out. I know they're You know their father's sick or whatever it might be and you just give them the benefit of the doubt
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And you just say you know what? I want somebody to cover my sins like that, too If you can't do it and the fellowship is broken then instead of going to somebody else
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Instead of nursing that grudge instead of holding on to that then you can just go to them and say You know,
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I fall so short so many times too, but you've done this again against me and uh
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It hurt my feelings and I can't get over it and i've struggled I've asked god to just block it out of my mind, but I can't and you've sinned against me and I want our relationship to be restored
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And if you say it like that the response should be oh, i'm so sorry. I didn't mean to do that.
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Please forgive me I love you, and i'm glad I could have forgiveness in christ. Would you please forgive me? And what should you do then back?
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Granted, of course All right. Any other questions?
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Steve So steve's question is if you think somebody in the church isn't a christian if they're not born again if they're not regenerated
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How do you go about talking to them well, it's difficult because It's just hard isn't it?
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I mean, I don't think there'd be a command to go restore our brother if we just did it naturally Nobody likes to do that.
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We just like to kind of isolate ourselves and it'll just all work out and you know I can I kind of use this illustration sometimes well
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They say uh, not this illustration for this instance, but with other people they'll be glorified one day Why should
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I worry about what will be their future because they'll be glorified So we'll just kind of let the spirit of god take care of it when sometimes we have to step in and the spirit uses
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Us so if you don't think they're saved I think we have every right in love to challenge their salvation and say
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I see your heart and you're not a christian. No what we could say the way you're living your life How could you call yourself a christian?
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There's no way you can live your life that way and say you're a christian But it's it's almost like you know, if i've when my grandmother was alive when
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I try to go confront a grandma Same thing we have close relationships with people in churches friends and neighbors and dear people.
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It's hard to go do it Let's say with your mom Who would it be easier for me to talk to not for church discipline situation?
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But evangelism you talk to your mom or me talk to your mom I don't hardly know your mom.
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Hi, mrs Nelson, you got a great son and I love steve And he used to do such a great job of the book ministry until he dropped the ball and nate have to pick it up No, and uh, i'm just you know
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I know where steve's going god has changed him and I just want to talk to you a little bit about how you can know Your sins forgiven
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It's easy Versus I go to my sister and all of a sudden it's difficult So it's almost harder when they're in the church
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It's harder when they're around and frankly, we need your help because the elders can't go around.
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It's not the let's put it this way I'll just make it very Straightforward. It's not the elder's job alone to do church discipline
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Did you know that? It's not only our job. It's your job and we should do the loving one another's and part of the one another's are confronting each other
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So I just think if you've got it on your heart god has burdened you And you've seen it and you've seen your neighbor in trouble
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Then who's your neighbor and then like luke 10? Then that's the neighbor that you just go and talk to in a humble way in a way that you'd like to be approached
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It's very difficult. Matthew 18 the letters the certified letters the meetings the phone calls
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The discussions the prayers. It's very very difficult. I don't like to do it And I hope beloved that that's the last one we ever have to do is last week we will be prepared to do them in the future, but There's something about being in a church even now with dave and steve and elders and even coming here on sunday
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Do you think this is fair? I walk into church on sunday and I tend to act more godly My mind is thinking
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I want to act godly in a hypocritical way No, I don't think that's it Although it could be but i'm just thinking you all expect me to walk by the spirit and obey the word.
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Don't you? You expect that so I don't say i'm a total spiritual slob
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Monday through saturday when I get here i'm all like yeah I don't mean that but I mean if you have a wife
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Who expects you to actually live what you teach if you have friends and other people in the church who want you to live?
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What you believe I think that's a healthy accountability That's one of the first things people will do when they're in sin is they'll spiral away from the church because there's that pressure
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Right if bruce and I hang out together five days a week. There's that pressure. Hey bruce. I expect you to live what you believe It's just there
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So I love the church. I love sunday nights. I love other pastors and elders because they expect you to live what you teach
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All right. Well, let's pray and let's go get some ice cream together And if you have to confront somebody at rhoda
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Just go to the side All right Let's pray father.
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Thank you for tonight Kind of a bible study and just going over the verses
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But father we want to have a pure church We want pure marriages. We want pure churches.
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We want our church to be pure christ doesn't deserve anything less father, thank you that there's forgiveness found in your son and Thank you.
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There are spiritual people around us who can help us if we fall and get ensnared and can't get out on our own And father we just pray even for the two cases of church discipline.
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We've had in the last seven years I pray for those two dear people That they might come back to you tonight by your spirit's wooing
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And father then we would have the joy and the celebration of having the prodigal return And we could have the feast and we could have the enjoyment of fellowship with those dear people again
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And father we all have people in our lives that we probably should preach the gospel to we probably should confront we probably should
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Talk to that grandmother or that sister that brother or that neighbor who needs to know you give us give us courage