July 27, 2018 Show with Maurice Roberts on “Finding Peace with God: Justification Explained”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Introduction to the Program and Guest

Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 27th day of July 2018, and I am so thrilled to have back for the second time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Morris Roberts.

He is, or was, I should say, the editor of the Banner of Truth magazine from 1988 to 2003. He is the author of The Thought of God, The Christian's High Calling, Great God of Wonders, and Can We Know God?

He was the moderator of the Free Church of Scotland Continuing's General Assembly in 2007, and he is a lecturer in Greek and New Testament at the Free Church Seminary since 2002. Today we are addressing his book, Finding Peace with God, Justification Explained, and it's my honor and privilege to you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Morris Roberts.

Thank you, sir. My privilege to be here this evening. Oh, it's the pleasure is all mine, and I'm sure my listeners as well, brother, and I apologize, ladies and gentlemen, that we started the program a little late, but for some reason I had a problem connecting with the UK on the phone, but we were eventually successful, and we thank God for that.

Peace with God and the Human Condition Before God

Well, what I'd like to do, Morris, is have you basically define two very important words that we have in this theme today that is also the title of your book, Finding Peace with God, Justification Explained.

First of all, I'd like you to define what it means to have peace with God, because no doubt there are many people who are unregenerate, who are tragically lost and heading for hell, who think they have peace with God just because of the way they feel.

They may feel very comfortable and happy entering into the doors of a church, and they may enjoy singing hymns to God, and they may feel perfectly fine talking about God, hearing about God, and they think they have peace with God, but I know that that is not what you're talking about.

No.

Being at peace with God must be defined correctly, otherwise it's worth nothing, and the definition we must give of being at peace with God must be based on the teaching of the Bible, which is the inspired Word of God, which he has given to us, who may come into a right relationship with himself, with God.

To be at peace with God is nothing to do with how we may feel in and of itself. Upon the teaching which the Bible gives us, and I quickly say two things. First, the Bible makes it very clear that all men and women are born sinners.

From our mother's womb, God judges us to be sinners. That is to say, we are regarded as being unworthy to enter into heaven. To be right with God, and to have peace with God, means that that problem is solved, and that the greatest problem solved.

How can we be right with God? So that really is the substance of it. It's not our own ideas. It's we must go, and there God tells us. Now, one might think, and I believe that.

This would be correct, that the opposite of peace is war. If you are not at peace with someone, I believe that the opposite of that would mean you are an enemy of someone, and or that particular individual.

Does not having peace with God imply that we are indeed at war with God, and that.

He is our enemy? It does, though many people do not realize that until they come to the experience of becoming at peace with God through faith in Christ. The truth of the matter is, as the Bible tells us, that by nature all mankind hates God, and tries to escape from God, and they invent all sorts of pseudo-scientific theories to try to explain how we can escape from God.

One of them is, of course, hate, but the important thing is we must get right with God, because if we're not right with God, and at peace with God, then we can be absolutely certain we shall never enter into heaven.

We must understand that God is angry with us all the time. His wrath or anger is down to eternal punishment, if in this life we do not get right with God in the way the Bible teaches us.

To get right with God. Amen. And now the other word that is used in different ways, depending upon what situation or context a person is speaking about, or writing about, justification. But what is the specific meaning of the term justification that you are specifically speaking about in this very important booklet, Finding Peace with God, Justification Explained?

Yes, the word justification.

Is a biblical word, and it means righteousness is given to us as a gift from God. We can't earn it, we can't pay for it, we can't buy it, we can't merit it, but God has laid down this as the rule, to get right with God, we must believe in the Son of God, and as soon as we do put our faith in Christ, God promises he will immediately forgive us, and he will reckon the righteousness of Christ to us as a free gift, so that in this life God is no longer angry with us, he is now our heavenly father, and when we die we will certainly go to heaven and to glory.

Amen. And there have been, as.

You know, obviously you have ministered with the wonderful ministry Banner of Truth that has been such a blessing, a tremendous gift from God to the body of Christ for so long, so of course ministering with a publishing ministry, you know full well that there are many books, large and small, some even massive, on the topic of justification.

Why is it that you felt a need for a new volume that people can have access to, both believers and unbelievers alike?

That's a very good question. There are excellent books on justification, certainly, such as for instance William Cunningham's Historical Theology, R .C. Simpson has an excellent good one, and there are many others, John Owen the Puritan has a wonderful book on the doctrine of justification by faith.

These and other books are very very excellent. Why then is there the need for me to, well if I may explain two things, first of all it's my longing to see the man in the street by the blood of Christ, and if I may respectfully to read a big, it would be much benefited by doing so, but today people are not great and trying to make it as simple, clear, and obvious to the modern reader as possible, so that not only the academics and the university people will be interested and get the benefit, but that the man in the street should come to that faith in Christ, whereby he should know peace with God in time and in eternity to come.

Amen. Well this, even though this book is brief, it has contained within it a lot of very essential and core issues regarding the subject of justification, and I'd like you to start with, even though we already gave a background, or should I say you did, in regard to the fact that we are indeed enemies of God until we are justified by him freely, by his grace.

You have the first chapter of the booklet explains our relationship to God as a very necessary theme within this very important subject, and even though you may be a little bit repetitive here, because we've already said some things in the beginning of the program about this, why don't you continue with a little more of an elaboration about what you have provided.

About our relationship to God in the booklet? Certainly. Well, our relationship with God is the most important thing in life. There's nothing more important than our relationship with God, and sadly, not always, sometimes it does, but very seldom these days in our country of Britain, there is seldom this right relationship with God, and because people are very far, they often do not sit down and think, what do I need to make sure I am in a right relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, the eternal son of God, came into the world, we could not do, and that is to say, we need therefore to get to believe, and as we come to the Bible and study the Bible, we realize why it is that Jesus Christ did come, and his love sent him into the world to take a human nature and to live for sinners like us and to die for sinners like us, and he suffered upon the cross in order to pay the penalty for the sins which we have committed, and our relationship with God therefore is extremely important, and our duty is to seek God at all our heart, and the promise of God is if we seek God at all our heart, then we shall find Christ as our Savior, and if we do not find Christ as our Savior in this life, it's too late.

Our relationship with God is all-important, and we must make it a matter of concern, each one of us, to be assured that we.

Are in that right relationship with God through Christ. And not to derail the main theme here, but when you just said that once a person dies, if they are lost, they will go to the place of punishment, I believe you would teach and believe yourself that when a person dies, although they will be in the presence of Christ if they are saved immediately, or they will be in a place of punishment immediately if they are lost, or if they are reprobate, or not a Christian if they're not not regenerate, they will go to this place of punishment.

But at the same time, these are not the ultimate places where either of these individuals will wind up, but is there not a more glorious eternity with Christ even awaiting them after that initial experience of being present with Christ after death, and then isn't there even a more horrific place awaiting them after they die if they do not have the covering of Christ's blood?

That is true. The way to look at it is this. Between death and the end of the world, which we can call the judgment day, in that period we refer to that as the, that's between when a person dies and the day of judgment at the end of time.

That's the intermediate state. Now when a believer dies until Christ returns for the judgment day, at that point Christ raises the dead body and reunites it with the soul, and when the body and soul are reunited after the judgment, Christ will take all believing people into the ultimate state of glory.

That will be the most perfect state imaginable. That's now the condition of the believer. But the condition of the unbeliever sadly is this. When the unbeliever dies, there is punishment in what we call the intermediate state of that punishment, between death and judgment.

His body in the meantime is in the grave. When Christ returns at the end of the world on the day of judgment, Christ will raise the bodies of the dead who are unbelievers and reunite their bodies and souls, and after the judgment being passed upon them through eternal punishment and darkness,.

A terrible condition. Well that leads us to our need of justification. If we do not want to spend our eternity in that horrific place of punishment, we need justification. And once again, if you could explain in more detail than what we, what you said at the very beginning of the program, there is, this is a very important issue that divides true and false Christianity, as you I'm sure agree.

This is the primary issue that sparked the Protestant Reformation. It's the primary issue that separates the Church of Rome from Reformational Protestantism, and we would we would also add to that more importantly, it separates Rome from Biblical Christianity.

And not only Rome, but there are a whole host of organizations and churches that would claim to be Christian, that also deny what we would call justification by faith alone, and forensic justification.

So if you could please go through an explanation of, first of all, what is forensic justification?

Find it like this. God's righteousness as Savior. And the moment that righteousness is imputed by God to the sinner, immediately the sinner, now that doesn't mean to say the sinner has no more sin in his nature.

He does, until he goes to heaven at last, after death. But the imputation of guilt to the sinner is now removed. So God looks upon that sinner as having a condition of, that is to say, God no longer imputes to him the sins that he has done, or the sins that he will do in this life, but God forgives them all.

And the reason why God can do that is, because when we are justified by faith in Christ, God imputes to us the whole righteousness of Christ. And that consists of two things. First of all, it means all our sins, all our sins as sinners are, and the righteousness which Christ has achieved by his perfect ease are imputed to and reckoned to the sinner.

So we are then forensically justified, and that means we are right with God immediately, as soon as we believe in Christ, and when we die, as we said earlier.

Christ Alone, Faith Alone, and the Rejection of Human Merit

Amen. And one of the things that you mentioned earlier about Jesus Christ being our one and only Savior, and that we must trust in him alone as our one and only Savior, unless someone gets the false idea that they can say, well, Jesus is the only God I worship, and he is the only one that I trust.

I don't pray to false gods. I don't have any false deities. I believe in Jesus alone. But they may, unconsciously, they would probably never say that they are viewing themselves as a Savior alongside of Christ.

They may not say that they view Mary and the saints alongside of Christ as saviors. They may not put it in those words, but we have very clearly examples of those who are misguided and have a false gospel, who believe either that they themselves are helping to save themselves in some way, or they are even not only including themselves, they are also including the mother of Jesus, the saints, and other Christians who are now in eternity with Christ.

They are thinking that this treasury of merit provided by the wonderful lives of these humans that are now in heaven, they think that these people have somehow helped Christ to attain salvation for them.

But this is really a very wicked and damnable way of thinking,.

Isn't it? Yes, that's right. The great necessity is we must define justification as the Bible teaches it, and in no other way. And to put it, the Bible teaches a sinner is justified by faith alone, in Christ alone.

Nothing must in any way be added to receive that justification. It's by faith. Doctrine was spoiled by adding things to faith as necessary for justification. So it was the terrible mistake of the Middle Ages to think that we can teach a sinner that he could be justified if he venerates a saint as well, spends time in prayer and fasting in a monastery, or something like that.

And we're therefore, in doing that, we're adding our own good works, as we call them. Not that they are good works, but we're adding what we think are good works alone in Christ. But the biblical teaching is very, very, puts it like this, by grace are you saved by faith.

It's again like this, justified by faith in Christ to have peace with God, and it's purely and simply by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. By grace are you saved by faith, by faith alone. So the great emphasis we must make is we are not going to be justified until and unless we cast aside all thought of our own goodness and our own merit alone in Christ, alone, whereby the sinner can be...

Amen. And we have a listener in Rocky.

Mount, North Carolina, named Michael, and he asked, do you think the recent attempts to rethink this doctrine is due to not looking to the Reformed confessions? All the standards are clear on the matter.

Could it be that if there is something we are contributing to justification,.

It becomes more palatable? That's very true. It does. Human nature would love to make a contribution to its own salvation. It's very flattering to think that if I want salvation, I can believe in Christ, but in addition to that, I can add my own good works to it.

My prayers and my almsgiving and my veneration of the saints and so on, but that's a tremendous mistake. If we think of adding any merit of our own to what Christ has done, we are detracting from the perfect merit of Jesus' work.

When Jesus died, he said, it is finished, meaning our salvation is perfectly achieved by his life and by his death, and therefore we must understand by grace are you saved through faith, not of works that any man should boast.

So to put it simply again, we must by all means receive any thought of trying to add to Christ.

Any good works or merit of our own. Amen. Well, thank you, Michael, in Rocky Mount, North Carolina. You have won a free copy of the book that we are discussing right now with Morris Roberts, Finding Peace with God, Justification Explained.

Compliments of the publishers, Banner of Truth, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who will be mailing it out to you at no charge to you or to us. So make sure we have your full mailing address there in Rocky Mount, North Carolina.

Thank you very much for joining us on the program with an excellent question. Again, going back to what we were discussing, imputed righteousness, the Church of Rome would say that the righteousness that we receive from Christ is infused in us, that we are actually innately made worthy of heaven rather than it being based on the sole merits and righteousness of Christ.

And they would even go further, unless you are one of those rare individuals in the Church of Rome that the Church of Rome would believe to be sinless on this earth before they depart from this earth.

Most people, the vast majority of people, in their thinking go to a place called purgatory, because Christ's death did not fully cleanse the saved person from their sins. They have to be punished themselves for a period that is unknown to them.

The Roman Catholic Church never fully explains this, as far as the length of time a person will remain in purgatory,.

But this is also a mockery of the cross of Christ, isn't it? It certainly is a great distortion of what Christ teaches, and it is very harmful and dangerous to those who are taught these wrong ideas, because if people don't know the true consequences, it may be eternal punishment, because they haven't gone about seeking Christ in the right way.

So we must make it very clear when we are defining the doctrine of Christ by going to the Word of God, and the teaching of the Word of God, and justified our faith in Jesus, and trusting him as the Savior who lived for us and died for us.

Morris, are you there? Well, we're going to go to our official break right now, and hopefully when we return, Morris will be back on the line with us. Our email address, if you'd like to join us, is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s a-r-n-z-e-n at gmail .com, and please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the USA.

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The Intermediate State, Purgatory, and the Sufficiency of Christ's Death

Well, I believe we have Morris Roberts back on the line, correct?

Yes, I'm here again, thank you.

Well, before we got cut off, we were talking about the heresy of purgatory and how this is a mockery of Christ. And our suffering, whether in this life or in the afterlife, is in no way helping to satisfy the wrath of God.

It is in no way making us more acceptable before a righteous and holy God. That is solely the place of the blood of Christ, Christ's death on Calvary, his perfect redemptive death that enables sinners to enter into heaven.

Is that not correct? That there is nothing that we can experience or do, whether good or bad, that can enable us to enter into heaven?

Yes, what you say is absolutely right. The important thing to bear in mind is this always, that no one will enter into heaven unless they are a perfect righteousness. We must be... Now, that perfect righteousness is something we cannot produce.

And even supposing we were 99 righteous, it would not be sufficient to get us into heaven. We must have a 100 righteousness. And the only way that Christ's righteousness should be imputed to us. And the righteousness of Christ is 100 man.

And he took his human nature in a miraculous way. And had Christ had two parents, as we all do, the sin of Adam would have been imputed to Christ. And so he had to have a miraculous birth, divine nature as God, and a perfect human nature without the imputation to it of Adam's sin.

Now, because Christ is absolutely perfect, his obedience to God in keeping the moral law, the Ten Commandments, was perfect. And his sufferings upon the cross was of such infinite value, dying for us, that he is able to wipe out the debt which we owe to God because of our sins.

And he can clothe us as we contribute nothing whatever to this process, except only faith. We must believe in Jesus and what the Bible says, that he died for sinners like us. But we contribute absolutely.

And when we enter into it, there's no such place mentioned in the Bible as purgatory. That is something the Bible, a hell for the wicked. And there's no intermediate place like that whatsoever. So it's essential to understand, if we are to go to heaven, we must get right with God now, because if we die and go, then we shall be damnation.

And that is good. Now, before, in the earlier part of the program, in the very beginning, you mentioned a book, when you were going through a list of books on justification, you mentioned one titled The Great Exchange.

And that is actually a very central theme to what we're talking about here, is it not? Because not only is Christ's righteousness imputed to us, our wickedness, our sins, are imputed to him. Isn't that true?

Yes, it is. Our sins are imputed.

To him. That's right. And he was reckoned to be responsible for his people who would believe in him. And he was punished, not for any sin of his own, for he had no responsibility. And Christ died a death under the wrath and judgment.

He died, and his soul went into a state of death for those three days. But as soon as our Lord died, immediately he died, he paid the full price for the sins of all his people who would believe in him.

His perfect life, including death, are both absolutely for sinners like us. And our duty then is to believe what Christ has done, and to trust in him, because he promises whosoever believes in him shall not perish,.

But have everlasting life. Amen. And some people might wrongly think that the pain, the physical suffering at the hands of wicked men who tortured and executed Christ, that this is what specifically redeems us.

But it's actually much more than that, isn't it? Most importantly, the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ that involves the Father pouring his wrath.

On his own son, the wrath that we deserve. Yes, it is. That's right. It is the imputation to Christ of the guilt and sin beginning to the end. The guilt of time to the end of time has been imputed to Christ when he was in this world on the cross, and he paid the price as the God's man, which is of infinite value.

He atoned for all the sins of those whose sins were imputed to him, and he has made a reconciliation with God for all those who now are believers. Amen. We have Bobby in.

Hartsdale, New York,. And Bobby says, When we say that we are justified by faith, do we not need to take great caution when we tell this to people? Because very often, Christians have the wrong concept of what that means.

They believe that they are actually helping to save themselves by offering to God a faith that comes intrinsically from them that pleases God. In other words, through their unfettered free will, they have come to make the right decision and follow Christ, and therefore, that is the final switch that seems to be turned on in order to determine the eternal destiny of the lost person.

But this is not really what you're talking about. Is not faith itself, as we read in Ephesians, a gift from God, so we can't even boast of it as.

Even the Apostle Paul said under divine inspiration? Yes, absolutely correct. The fact of the matter is that faith is the gift of God, and no man has true faith until he or she has been born again, because no man has faith before he or she has been born again of the Holy Spirit.

The new birth is the act of God which enables the soul of the sinner to trust in Christ. So there is this order in the application of salvation to the souls of men and women. We must be born again, and as soon as we're born again, immediately, we shall believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior.

Now, it's possible for someone to stand up and say, I believe in Christ, but that means nothing until there is evidence in the life and behavior of that person that their life is transformed and changed as a result of a new birth experience.

What brings the soul of the sinner to trust truly in Christ? There is such a thing, of course, as worthless faith, as James talks about, to make himself good, or to give himself some sort of real, genuine, biblical faith.

A new birth, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. So the new birth comes first, and true, genuine, saving faith is the fruit of that new birth.

Experience. Amen. In fact, we have...oh, by the way, thank you, Bobby, for your question. You also are getting a free copy of the book that we are discussing, Finding Peace With God, by Morris Roberts, Compliments of Banner of Truth, and compliments of cvbbs .com, so please give us your full mailing address there in Hartsdale, New York.

We have a listener who is asking something that really involves something that you were just saying now. We have Bibi in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who says that we constantly hear from the Roman Catholic friends that if you do not believe that works are involved in our salvation, that necessitates you believe that one can live like Satan himself, unrepentantly, perhaps even for decades, and that person will still enter heaven when he dies, because he at one time had faith that saved him.

And since we who are Reformed do not believe a truly born-again individual can lose their salvation, that means that we can live unrepentantly and as wickedly as we please and still be accepted by God on the day we die.

But this is not what Reformed people have historically believed, and if you can explain how believing in justification by faith alone does not require that you believe in licentiousness being acceptable to God.

There are three dimensions we could mention about justification, and they're all very, very important. We are justified meritoriously. That means the worth and the merit of our justification comes from Christ's life and death.

So the merit of justification is entirely dependent upon Christ's perfect life and atoning death. Now secondly, there is the means whereby the sinner receives this justification, and the means whereby any sinner receives justification from Christ is by faith alone, in Christ alone.

But then, and here's the third point most relevant to the question, the sinner is justified declaratively by his good works. In other words, what I'm saying there is a sinner has truly believed in Christ.

He may say he does, but the evidence of Christ can only be gathered from a person, and a person who has a changed life loves God and loves the things of God. He's not perfect, but he sincerely desires to commit himself to God and to live a life of obedience to God as long as he's in this world.

So that's the third point here. If a person says, oh I don't mind how I live, get drunk, commit all the sins you like, I believe in Christ, what he's saying there is he has no idea what true faith is, because genuine faith always works together with obedience to God.

When a person is born again, their supreme desire is to live to the glory of God in an obedient life. And if a person shows no attempt at an obedient life, but lives in drunkenness and wickedness, they're simply saying they have no.

True faith. Well thank you B .B., you've also won a free copy of the book, Finding Peace with God, and that is Compliments of Banner of Truth and cvbbs .com. Please give us your full mailing address so that can be shipped out to you at no charge to you.

We're going to our elongated break right now. This is a longer break than normal because it's required of us by Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, because they air their own commercials and public service announcements during this longer than normal break.

So please be patient with us. Please write down questions for Morris Roberts during this break, and also write down the information provided by our advertisers. Our email address, if you care to join the others waiting to have their questions asked and answered, is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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