February 14, 2018 Show with Henry Jansma and Matt Kennedy on “To Ash or Not to Ash? That is the Question for Two Reformation Anglicans of Opposing Views on Ash Wednesday” PLUS Mike Gaydosh on “New Offers From Solid Ground Christian Books”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's.

Our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Wednesday on

this 14th day of February, Valentine's Day 2018, and I'm

so disappointed, today being my birthday, that I did not receive the million dollars in unmarked bills

that I've been asking for, so we'll have to wait, but the night is young, so you never know what will

show up at my doorstep today, but today is not only Valentine's Day,

but it is also Ash Wednesday, or the first day of Lent, and today we

have, I think, a fascinating program today.

We're going to be addressing a subject that I've never addressed, at least for a

full two -hour program, or in this case, I should say a 90 -minute program, because our guests could only be with us for the first 90

minutes, and we have Mike Gadosh of Solid Ground Christian Books joining us during the last half hour,

but this will be the first time that we have devoted an entire program, or nearly an entire

program, to the subject of Ash Wednesday, and this is the theme today, to Ash or

not to Ash?

That is the question for two Reformation Anglicans of opposing views, and let me

introduce to you these two Reformation Anglicans that we have on the program today,

and one has been a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio before, and

the other is a new guest, a first -time guest.

First, let me introduce our returning guest, Matt Kennedy.

Matt Kennedy is the rector, or the senior pastor, of Church of the Good Shepherd in

Binghamton, New York.

He grew up in Corpus Christi, Texas, and graduated with a BA in history from

Southwestern University in 1994.

After coming to faith in Jesus Christ in 1995, he served as a youth minister for an Episcopal

congregation in Houston, Texas.

In 1999, he was accepted to Virginia Theological Seminary in Alexandria,

Virginia, and during seminary, he met his wife, Ann.

They were married in 2001, and together, they have six children.

After earning his MDiv in 2002, Matt and Ann moved to Binghamton, New

York, where Matt accepted the call to serve as rector of Good Shepherd Episcopal Church.

Good Shepherd left the Episcopal Church in 2007, following that denomination's departure from Christian

orthodoxy, and now belongs to the Diocese of Kena East, a Nigerian

Anglican missionary diocese, which is a member diocese of the Anglican Church in

North America.

As rector, Matt oversees pastoral care, teaching and preaching, administration, staff,

and is committed to his singular passion, exegetical preaching.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you.

Back to Iron, Sharp, and Zion, Pastor Matt Kennedy.

It's my honor to be here.

Great to be here.

Thank.

You.

And now, for the first time, we have, as our guest on Iron, Sharp, and Zion radio, Reverend Canon Dr.

Henry P. Jansma, who has lived in the United States and in England.

Prior to planting All Souls Church in Cherry Hill, New Jersey in

2014, Henry also served in the Church of England from 1991 to 2001, and

the Episcopal Church from 2001 to 2013.

Henry holds degrees from Northeastern Bible College, a BA, Westminster

Seminary in Philadelphia, a master's, and Lincoln Theological College in the UK, a

certificate in ministry and mission, and the University of Durham, UK, which is a PhD,

and has taught homiletics in the Diocese of Lincoln Lay Readers School, as well as Reformation

history in the Diocese of New Jersey Deacon School.

His PhD thesis is the prophetic office and the theology of John Calvin.

Henry remains a student of the Reformation period, particularly in early Anglican theology

and the Elizabethan Puritan movement.

His pastoral experience began as assistant curate of St. Mary and St. Nicholas

Spaulding in 1991, when Henry served as an assistant in a large -town

parish church in various rural parish churches in the in the fens of the

southeastern Lincolnshire, and as a part -time hospital chaplain.

He later installed, as he was later installed, as vicar of St. Aidan's

Clethorpus, an inner -city parish in northeast Lincolnshire.

St. Aidan's was identified as an urban priority area, an area

of special economic and social need.

Henry was also a regular speaker on BBC radio

Humberside's Pause for Thought.

Returning to the United States on September 11, 2001, Henry was appointed director of St. Mary's

Episcopal Church, Haddon Heights, New Jersey, a previously troubled parish church.

He sacrificially led the people in a return to Orthodox biblical Christianity.

Henry was ordained priest in the Church of England in 1992, and is now canonically resident

in the Missionary Diocese of Convocation of Anglicans in North America, East

Church of Nigeria, and since October of 2013, Henry was appointed

canon theologian for the diocese in December of 2014.

Henry also writes for, writes as an Anglican contributor on

Meet the Puritans, a blog of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals, who are friends of the Iron

Sharpens Iron program, and is adjunct lecturer in

homiletics at Reformed Episcopal Seminary from August 2016.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Reverend Canon Dr. Henry P.

Jansma.

And the pleasure is all mine, brother, and the email address for any of you who would like to ask a

question about Ash Wednesday in particular, we will accept other questions regarding Anglicanism

and Episcopalianism, but we would like the majority of them to be specifically on the question of

Ash Wednesday, whether or not that is a way that the first day of Lent should be

expressed by someone who is truly a Protestant or Reformational Anglican.

And this is a subject that is near and dear to my heart because much of my family on my

father's side were Anglicans and Episcopalians, and it did break my heart to know that some of those

family members moved on into the Roman Catholic Church because they were disgusted with liberalism

in the Episcopal Church.

I wished that they had met folks like the two of you who are committed to

the 39 Articles of Religion and other major aspects of the Protestant Reformation

that would prohibit the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church.

And just something that our listeners should be aware of that not all of the

Episcopal or Anglican Church are either apostate and leftist or

Romish and Oxford movement, there are those that are considered to be truly Protestant

and Reformational, and it is my joy to know a number of them.

Well, let me first have Pastor Matt Kennedy begin, since

Matt is in favor of celebrating Ash

Wednesday on the first day of Lent, and he does not apparently see an inconsistency with

that celebration and the teachings of the 39

Articles or historic Protestant Anglicanism.

And if you could begin, Matt, to first of all explain to our listeners, because we do have listeners that

were not raised in liturgical churches where Ash Wednesday

was ever celebrated or Lent, for that matter.

We no doubt have a great number of Baptists and Presbyterians

and others who have never observed those days or those holidays or holy

days, although I know that Lent is something that has become

more popular even beyond the boundaries of Anglicanism and Roman

Catholicism.

It's something that even I know an Evangelical Methodist Church that celebrates

Lent and Ash Wednesday, for that matter.

But if you could, Matt, explain what Ash Wednesday is and why you do it and

why you do not think this is a contradiction to your Reformational standards.

Sure.

I mean, Ash Wednesday is the day 40 days before Holy Saturday

or the day before Easter, and traditionally it's the first day of the season of Lent, and

Lent is a time set aside to...

Now, that doesn't mean that we don't always repent.

The Christian life is one of repenting.

But it is helpful, Anglicans, many Anglicans tend to think, to have a season set aside where

you really do battle with, and Ash Wednesday is

the beginning of that time.

And Anglicans, this may be something that is unique about Anglican Reform folk,

and that is that we're, we don't, not all of us anyways, many of us do not

hold to the regulative principle with regard to worship.

So we hold to what's called, what doesn't conflict with the Scriptures,

and insofar as it's not inconsistent with principles laid down in Scripture, a congregation or a Christian or

a church may engage in those particular practices.

And my position is fairly simple.

I don't see how either the observance of Ash Wednesday or the

imposition of Ashes in any way conflicts with either the written Scriptures or

anything that can be deduced from them.

For me, that's a primary test.

After having passed that, I mean, I guess the question is, what's the use of it?

And I think there's an imposition of Ashes on

helpful things.

Jesus, about not

doing works of righteousness or to

be seen by men so that we don't do them to exalt ourselves

or gain admiration, and I think the imposition of Ashes is kind of the anti -sign for

that.

It's exactly the opposite of what Jesus forbids in Matthew 6 there,

because by putting Ashes on your head, you're essentially saying, I'm a sinner, I

deserve condemnation and death for my sin, and in fact, I'm going to die, that's what the Ashes

represent, both death and sorrow,

and the fact that it says, well, yes, I'm a sinner, I'm doomed to

die, but Jesus came to save sinners, and he has destroyed death, and so

I rejoice in that fact.

And so you wear this ash around all day, this

morning, and you kind of open prayer that people will ask you, what's that smudge on your

on your forehead, and you get to say, you can share the gospel with them, I'm a sinner,.

And Jesus died for sinners.

Now, is it always a smudge, or is it actually an attempt to make.

A cross symbol with the Ashes?

Right, well, it's the attempt to make a cross, but often.

It comes, it looks like a smudge.

Yes, I was raised Roman Catholic.

I was raised Roman Catholic.

My father's side was Episcopalian, but my father, when I was a teenager, eventually converted

to Roman Catholicism, but before my own conversion and my own

becoming a Reformed Baptist, I was a Roman Catholic, and I can always recall not only

having the Ashes on my own forehead, but seeing them, and they very rarely looked like a cross.

But if you could, perhaps now, Pastor Jansma, if you could

respond to what Matthew says and explain to our listeners why you, as a Reformational Anglican, do

not practice Ash Wednesday, although you do follow the

Lenten calendar, you are a liturgical Anglican, and

in fact, I'm assuming all Anglicans, in some shape or form, even low church Anglicans, I'm assuming, are

liturgical, and then, of course, we could say that every church is liturgical because every church has some kind of order

of worship.

But if you could, respond to.

Why

you

do not

practice

Ash Wednesday.

Yes, thanks, Chris.

I would say,

first off,

Lent,

for me, I mean, as you

of England,

the great benefit,

and along

for many years, the

formularies are

slightly

different.

It

begins,

again, in

that way, and I

noticed.

So, did Thomas Cramner

abandon

the

Ashes

as well?

Yes,

that's

right.

We're

going

way

back.

I'm

always

mindful

of it.

So, going back.

To something that Matt said earlier, he would be more in alignment

with what is known as the normative principle rather than the regulative principle, and you seem to be, I don't know if you would

identify yourself with that word, regulative principle, but you seem more aligned with it where

the silence of the scripture is viewed by those who adhere to the regulative principle

as a prohibition against things rather than a

liberty to include things.

Would that be more accurate or somewhat accurate in the way to describe your own convictions on.

Worship?

Well, actually not.

I don't think so, really.

I've never been able to get a straight answer on,

okay, a relative, then what's on the

list and what is not, and depending upon who I ask, I get a different length of list.

Yeah, I know that especially over.

Instrumental music and also whether to sing exclusively the Psalms or include hymns.

Those.

Are the only two areas that I'm aware of, though.

Yeah, but I mean, it goes on, doesn't it?

I mean, we can talk about that.

All right,

and

normative as well.

Yes, I'd like

to

propose

maybe that's and with that in

mind, never mentioned.

I said,

no, I

don't think so, and they said, why not?

I said, well, look at the prayer book.

What if you, what, exactly, because they weren't there.

In fact, I've heard from my friend, Reverend Jacob Smith.

I don't know if you're familiar with Jacob.

He's the rector of the parish of Calvary St. George's in New York City.

He is a Calvinist adherent to the 39 Articles of Religion, and he has

told me that the low church Episcopalians and Anglicans refer to those who are becoming

more Anglo -Catholic or even more Romish, they were referred to as climbing

the candlestick.

I don't know if you've heard that.

Phrase

or if you

use that.

Oh my, yes.

Well, you know, even if you do not personally adhere to.

A label known as the regulative principle, you seem to be fairly closely following it to

the majority of people I know who identify themselves that way.

But actually, I think this would be a good time to go to our first break so I don't have to

interrupt anybody in mid -sentence, and because we usually go to the break right around now

anyway.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with your question, and there are a couple of you waiting to have your questions asked and answered, our

email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence

if you live outside of the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say that you are a member of an Episcopal church that is conducting worship

in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable or anything else like that where you don't want to draw attention to your

identity.

I can understand that.

So you may remain anonymous if it is about a personal and private matter, but other than that, please give us your first name, city and state,

and country of residence.

The email address that you would use to join us with a question is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I

-S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

And don't go away, God willing, we are going to be right back after these messages with Reverend Matt Kennedy and

Reverend Henry Jansmut for more of our discussion on to ask or not to ask.

Don't go away.

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We are now back to our discussion between Reverend Matt Kennedy and Reverend Henry

Jansma on to ash or not to ash.

That is the question.

That is the question for two Reformation Anglicans of opposing views.

Neither of our guests are Anglo -Catholics.

They are committed to the teachings and standards of Protestant

Reformation.

They would be both, however, practitioners of

the observance of Lent.

Where they disagree is whether or not to impose ashes on the congregants

or anyone coming to receive this sign on Ash Wednesday.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

We have a listener in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania named Harrison.

And Harrison says, I am not from a liturgical background, but it

seems to me that Lent is merely asking upon the faithful to be

hypersensitive in regard to things they should already be doing, i .e. examining

themselves, especially in regard to receiving the Lord's Supper.

Am I missing something?

And you can both answer that.

We'll start with you, Matt, since we had Reverend Jansma, who was last speaking.

Why don't you begin with your own response to our.

Listener in Mechanicsburg?

Well, I mean, again, Martin Luther said the entire Christian life is a life of repentance, and I think that's absolutely right.

I don't necessarily believe that asking a congregation...

It is asking.

There's no...

If you're from a Roman or, I guess, a traditionalist Roman Catholic background,

you might be used to days of obligation or these kinds of impositions by the Church on

the laity.

That doesn't happen within Anglicanism.

We don't require anyone to do anything that can't be...

that I can't back up with direct biblical...

MASH Wednesday and Lent, these are opportunities for people

to take action in their lives against things that have been enslaving them, and they haven't

gone through the whole year without really taking stock of what's going on

in their life or in their soul, and this period of time gives them an opportunity to take stock of that, offer

up enslavements, offer up idols, offer up things that have been plaguing them for a while

to the Lord, and seek His grace and mercy, and I

think it's an extremely healthy

practice.

I grew up as an Episcopalian.

I became a Christian in my 20s, but since that... my conversion, I found Lent far

more burdensome.

I found it a release burden.

Take that time and really, really do battle and

by God's grace, be cleansed of things that I just let accumulate in my life over the course of.

The other months of the year.

Now, Henry, you could add anything you'd like to that, but I'd also like to add my own question, having been raised

Roman Catholic.

One of the things that Lent, in that tradition, is known for, I don't know if it's

globally, but I'm sure it's quite well known for it, at least within the confines of North America, is that

during Lent you give up something that you really love.

You give up either doing something or eating something, and obviously it is common for people to eat

fish rather than meat, especially on Ash Wednesday or other holy days,

although I, from what I understand, the papacy, since that was never a dogma, has lightened up the

reins on requiring those kinds of things.

But if you could comment, Henry.

On what?

That's what, well, I mean, I'm sure you agree that that's what a Roman Catholic.

Would

typically

think

of

during

Lent.

Yes, but

this

is

also

why

we...

Go ahead,

Matt.

This is also why we wouldn't, I don't know about Henry, but I know that in my parents,

we wouldn't just give an arbitrary kind of discipline, or no meat on Fridays,

or seem to be, that seems to be more akin

to, I'm causing myself some kind of suffering to atone for my

sins, and that doesn't have any place within Anglicanism.

We would rather say, don't give up chocolate, that's not going to help you.

In fact, I think it's aphrodisiac, isn't it?

As far as I've heard it is, anyway.

Yeah, you just reminded me of an old Charles Spurgeon quote, which I don't know exactly the way he worded it, because I don't have it

in front of me, but I have been told that Charles Spurgeon had said that if anyone

says that you are wicked, that don't be angry at him, you are far worse than he thinks.

Yes, absolutely.

Well, guess what, Harrison, you have won a free copy of a very

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Please give us your full mailing address there in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, so that CVBBS

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, thanks to the generosity of Crossway Books, and thanks to the generosity of

CVBBS .com, who will be shipping it at their own expense.

We have Joe in Slovenia.

Dear brother Chris, happy birthday.

I'm always blessed by the wide array of guests you have for your program.

Does Jesus command in Matthew chapter 6 verses 16 to 18 to wash your

face, conflict with the practice of rubbing ashes on one's face on Ash Wednesday?

Does Jesus command that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your

father who is in secret?

Speak against the whole practice of going to a priest to get the ashes put on your face.

If we advertise the fact that we are fasting, are we not nullifying the benefit of

fasting?

Thanks for bringing edification to this discussion each day.

Well, that's got to be one for Matt, I can tell you that much.

Well, you can confirm it later if you want.

Matt, you're kind of muffled.

Hello, Matt?

Your voice is muffled.

I can hear you now.

I did address that briefly in my original,

referencing Matthew

chapter 6, and the things that Jesus forbids seem

to be seen by others, praying in a way that would be calling attention to

yourself, and you know, almsgiving,

of being seen giving alms, and have a

lot of ash value in those

cultures.

You know, there was a very highly religious, first century Judaism is a very highly religious culture, and so being

seen doing these things gives you a lot of cred.

I would say the opposite is true with regard to our own culture, with

regard to what the ashes actually tell us, or what the ashes actually say.

The ashes do not say, and some people do use them like this, so I want to make that caveat, but they don't say,

look at me, I've gone to church this morning, I'm a good Anglican, or I'm a good Lutheran, I'm a good

Roman Catholic, or whatever.

The ashes are intended to say, look at me, and

because of my sin, I'm going to die, my mortal body is going to die unless Jesus comes back first,

and I deserve condemnation and hell for my sins, and

yet the ashes are in the shape of a cross because my Lord

gave his life for sinners, and so I live, and though my body will die, I will live, and my body will one

day be raised up.

There's an anti -pride message in the ashes that I think

actually helps to use Matthew 6 as a counter -example.

So Matthew 6 is always the text assigned on Ash Wednesday, for

Anglican preachers anyway.

So I'm preaching on Matthew 6 tonight, I preached on Matthew 6 this morning, and I

use the ashes as the antitype to what

Jesus.

Forbids in that chapter.

And Reverend Henry, do you have any response that perhaps you might.

Want to bolster what our listener has said?

Well, I think, I mean, I'm very sympathetic to

the imposition of ashes.

I

tend to

hesitate,

because it really takes several paragraphs to explain the meaning of the

sign.

And it's a bit like, well,

a sign should be to us.

I'm thinking in terms of how it's so easy to explain the nature of how we are

nourished by the supper, because even a child will understand the

same way.

It's immediately

accessible.

I tend to hesitate, because so much and that

conversation may or

may

not occur.

Well, thank

you

Joe

in

Slovenia,

and

thank you also.

Providing us with an American address where your daughter lives in Georgia, because we are

shipping out to her, since it's much less expensive, a free copy of the book that we mentioned,

Reformation Anglicanism, written by multiple authors and published by

our friends at Crossway.

Reformation Anglicanism, a vision for today's global communion, and again that's a $35 hardback, and you're getting that

absolutely free.

And thank you providing us with that American address.

Let's see here, we have Christopher in Suffolk County,

Long Island, New York.

He said that, he says that Pastor Matt earlier on

commented that he looks forward to people asking about why there's a smudge on their forehead

so he can profess his faith, and that others in his congregation can do same.

However, in a lot of places in the United States, a question like that would never be asked because of the

predominance of Roman Catholicism, and they would automatically think that you are a Roman Catholic.

Does it not disturb you, Pastor Matt, that you are very

opposed to the heretical dogmas of Rome, and yet you are

risking being identified with them merely because of a ceremony that has no

place in the scriptures?

You know, two things there.

That's all, that's going to be a problem, I guess, with any kind of

religion.

I think people who are not Christians associate, or don't have a good way of distinguishing

them from Baptists or anything else, a

mush to them.

So I don't know that that necessarily is a critique with regard to just smearing

ashes on your head.

If you could apply to a whole host of other practices, just going to church on Sunday, we

would do the same thing.

I would just add, you know, that in addition to, and I do think there's a, I do think that, at least

from my feedback from the Christian, when

people who have these ashes on their head, and it has been an opportunity to

share the gospel, but in addition to that, it's not just the evangelical or the

mission -mindedness that drives me to want to do this.

It also says something very important to the person who has the ashes imposed.

You look that person in the eye, you betray them,

and you say, remember that you are dust, and to dust you shall return.

So every year,

and during the year, but in particular, every people in my

parish

remember

that this life is not long, and that's an important thing for them to know, and they

also are reminded again of their utter desperate need for a Savior who will

save them not only from death, there's a

personal, as well as the external value of being able to explain what the ash is for.

But as far as the question goes, again, I agree that that could happen, people by mistake,

the person wearing it for any

kind of religious practice.

One question I have of my own, real quickly, is this a mandatory thing, that someone receives ashes.

In your congregation?

No, when I say everyone, I mean, I think there are some who don't do it, and they're welcome not to do it, because it's not,

as I think they pointed out, it's not commanded in Scripture, so we would never

command someone to do it.

It is an option.

Now let me ask you.

Another question.

Let's say some church down the road, they picked a day out of the

year, it could be any day, it could be Resurrection Sunday, it could be any day,

Christmas, perhaps even the first day of Lent, where the congregation

is encouraged to walk around in the community wearing an armband, perhaps,

that has a cross on it, or something like that, something that does not have the ancient connection

with the tradition of ashes, but is equally not found within the

pages of Scripture.

Would you be opposed to something like that, or is it just because of the ancient connection to ashes that you find this

a commendable practice?

I wouldn't be opposed.

To that at all.

If any church in our neighborhood's

going, I don't see the problem with it.

I do, I think that the ash on Ash Wednesday is a particularly compelling sign, because of

what ashes represent, as opposed to an armband.

And Reverend Jansman, if you could respond to.

Basically everything that, as much as you want, as much as you want to respond to in regard to what

Matthew said.

In fact, I'll tell you what, if you could collect your thoughts over the station break, because we have to go to a midway station break right now,

and you could respond to Matthew when we return, and that will be our final half hour, so if anybody wants to

join us on the air with a question, and there are still a couple of you waiting, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail

.com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Whether you agree or disagree with either side, please just give us your first name, city, and state, and country of

residence, and you may remain anonymous if the question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Reverend Matt Kennedy and Reverend Henry Jansman, who are two

Anglicans, conservative, Protestant, Reformational, 39 articles Anglicans, who disagree

over the issue of ashes on the first day of Lent, and we'll be right back, God willing, right after these messages

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And now uh before we return to our break i just have a couple of important announcements.

And one of them i know that henry jansma will be familiar with this is in regard to the

alliance of confessing evangelicals.

Uh they are going to be sponsoring once again the philadelphia conference on reform theology which

ironically is not being held in philadelphia at all but it's being held in two different

places.

The first one is being held uh april 13th through the 15th at the first

christian reform church of byron center michigan.

And the second is being held from april 27th through the 28th at the proclamation presbyterian church

in brin mar pennsylvania.

And that's the one that's closest to philadelphia.

Of course it's named the philadelphia conference on reform theology because of that historic conference that was held

in philadelphia at 10th presbyterian church by dr james montgomery boyce for so many years and i

have very cherished memories attending those conferences.

But this year the philadelphia conference on reform theology is titled the spirit of the age and the age of the

spirit and speakers include daniel aiken richard gaffin daniel hyde conrad m bayway a

dear friend of mine who's pastor of kabwatha baptist church in lusaka zambia africa and richard

phillips uh the workshop speakers include jonathan master david murray and scott oliphant.

If you would like to register for the philadelphia conference on reform theology go to alliancenet .org

alliancenet .org click on events and then click on the spirit of the age and the age

of the spirit philadelphia conference on reform theology 2018.

Please tell them at the alliance of confessing evangelicals that you heard about them from chris arnzen on iron

sharpens iron radio.

Last but not least i just have to make a quick request which i hate doing but it's something that

needs to be done.

I need to make a quick request for donations.

My advertisers have been prodding me and pressuring me for a very long time to make daily public

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You do not have to believe exactly as i do.

I'm a reformed baptist and i would love to see a good solid reformation anglican congregation.

For instance advertising with us.

Uh you just need to be advertising something that's compatible with what i believe.

And we would love to hear from you at chris arnzen at gmail .com with advertising in the subject line.

And that is also the email address where you can ask questions for our guests matt kennedy and henry

jansma on whether or not to administer ashes on the first day of

lent known as ash wednesday.

Uh these are two men who are not anglo -catholic.

They are committed to reformational standards.

They are 39 articles anglicans.

They're conservative and liturgical.

And uh i would be both of you be just would both of you describe.

Yourselves as low church i'm not sure about that i would probably be considered

high church.

Okay and you.

Uh pastor jansma.

Um i guess i would be a little church i suppose yeah.

Okay if someone wanted to label label me.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well that those are differences that are tolerated amongst even reformation anglicans

and.

But if you have a question please send it in before we run out of time.

They're only going to be on with us till one uh till 5 30.

But if you could pick up where we left off reverend jansma on the the listener before the break

was basically saying aren't you meeting pastor matt and others like him.

Aren't you unnecessarily publicly confusing people and wrongly identifying yourself

with the roman catholic church with whom reformation anglicans uh have

very much to oppose.

Uh especially the dogmas involving salvation and idol and things that would be considered

idolatrous and so on.

Uh why would you do this thing that may blur the lines of distinction between you.

And if you could respond to that.

That kind of

thought well

i think if i mean be

a stand and look the person in the eye

needs more that it

doesn't go.

Combination uh

in a way um

as a combination literally means

vengeance explains the announcing of god's anger and

judgments against congregations.

The idea of god is

mentioned we

might

argue is his heart.

And because he is holy he cannot.

Uh

and the death penalty because as paul

tells us the way

to this in his culmination

if you're a king james guy out there

come and have a look at this because it it quotes over 75

many more

anglicans in our

worship.

Um what i think tim hughes said.

And there's a line i think that goes i'll never know how much

on that cross now.

That's the essence what we're trying to do.

We're trying to understand god's all he had to overcome

to us and we'll never know how much.

So the combination you know does that for us.

It begins by displaying god's anger and judgment although even at the beginning it says that

god's anger and judgment is only a curse it's

only those who don't repent to

christ.

And you you read the commandment we

all are guilt it's coming

um that come

and not to despise his goodness

in that.

And then we're

reassured that christ is ready to receive us whenever we come to him in humility no matter

what we've done or how many times we've done it because jesus is most willing

if we come to him anglican.

I'm saying look

at the readings are there

but we need to have the foundation the cradle as it

were.

And uh

acknowledging that all

the good news of jesus is designed

to acknowledge our sinfulness to fall on the mercy of god

judgment against sin and be so encouraged to fight valiantly against it knowing

our shoes so relevant for today.

And uh more and more is indeed

in all churches.

Uh and that would be my mind

and.

Pastor matt if you want to respond sure i i there's.

I absolutely agree with him about the service of combination and i also agree that ashes by

themselves are are bare and they don't give you.

If the service just the imposition of ashes it would be incomplete.

And that's why you have the combinations we have the preaching of the gospel and you

you join that two other things.

So i would definitely agree with him about the need for that

uh beyond just what pastor says when he rubs the the ash on the head

um yeah.

Secondly kind of go back to what the questioner asked with regard to um associating

through signs with the roman catholic church.

Uh there's a lot of the english language for example

we've lost the word um tolerance.

We've lost the word inclusive good words that had that had meaning before they were co

-opted by um by the left and and we've kind of allowed them to be

to be misused.

And so now anytime those words are used we have all kinds of images that are conjured in our heads that weren't consistent with the

original meaning.

Um i think the same thing can be true here with liturgy and with with things that people might

associate with the roman um

the teaching of the gospel throughout the centuries.

So i i don't i don't know that we need to surrender um as people might

think that they conjure up

us to be very um in

taking and taking these signs and these symbols.

And when gospel and catholic content.

We have uh arnie in perry county pennsylvania who says forgive me if i miss

this but are either of you in the episcopal church tec

denomination which is known by evangelicals as being a very

apostate denomination endorsing such wicked activity as homosexuality and

even homosexual marriage and ordination of unrepentant homosexuals and

also abortion and many other things that we would believe as christians are an abomination

and more importantly god views as abominations.

My question is again are you either of you in this denomination.

And how do you view brothers in christ who are biblically orthodox but

who remain in that denomination even in the.

Clergy oh

yeah we had a we had an interesting interview with both in

this in the same uh.

Diocese and the anglican church in north america which is not part of the episcopal church and many of

the pastors in north america have left the episcopal church.

The

commenters uh so

i do know some some uh good

faithful going to be increasingly difficult because the the pressure now

from body for governing body of the

church majority of bishops in the episcopal church are all

and promoting they're working

very to make life very difficult for orthodox

um orthodox pastors i think it's a matter of matter of time before even remaining in

that untenable.

And uh.

Pastor henry

yes uh since i can no longer remain to

do so

um and uh why you

remain uh

is a

tricky.

That's absolutely right to point out that it will just get harder.

Um and i think that the question really for me

was um for

many they say well

seizures are

uncovered

um the game is over.

I can hold a

price

to

the potential salvation

then that's the fun no matter what it

followed.

My own assemblies

of the church.

Well uh

reverend

matt

i

would like you to conclude your end of the.

Program by by summarizing what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to ash.

Wednesday in about a three minute period approximately.

And then we'll have uh.

Reverend jansma do the same.

Sure it's time to again

come if

you've adopted and um and do the work of repentance

offering um offering those things that are displeasing to god up to the lord and being assured as henry

said so well that you're forgiven.

I think the imposition of ashes on ash wednesday is

on terms with your own mortality

and also prepare you to to be on

the church walls.

The ashes represent death um and they also represent sorrow.

You're sorry tenfulness.

You recognize that apart from god's mercy you have no hope.

And you ought to be uh condemned.

And yet again the the jesus

christ died to take away your sins and he crushed death under his feet.

And and so uh you you you embrace that.

You embrace that.

Um as you receive the the ashes you embrace that as you hear uh the preaching of the gospel um at the

service and as you go out into the world um you pray that's where.

Give it give me an opportunity to share the gospel.

Somebody asked me about what what this is what this

means.

And look for opportunities to do so so i uh because there's nothing in scripture that would that would be inconsistent

with this practice and there's nothing that others would do to.

There's nothing inconsistent with it.

I i i see it as a truly nothing.

And reverend jansma if you

could conclude.

Your end of the discussion with about three minutes of content i

would be

important to

note that continued

immediately in 1549

standing of the minister on

the

day of judgment and then

in that

way playing christ

uh

again in

the way that

our

lights

are.

Well i was delighted with our discussion.

Today and i want you both to know that you both have an open door to be interviewed here

whenever we have an opening in our schedule if you have a special event a conference or anything that you

want to promote if you have a guest speaker coming to your church whatever the reason

being that you would like to come back on please let me know.

Because i would like uh each of you to know that i would love to interview you again and and many

more times in the future.

I want our listeners to know that the anglican church of the good shepherd in binghamton new york has a website

and that's good shepherd binghamton .org and binghamton is spelled b -i

-n -g -h -a -m -t -o -n .org good shepherd binghamton .org

and also uh our friends at all souls anglican church in cherry hill new jersey they have

a website which is all souls n -j standing for new jersey .org all

souls n -j dot o -r -g.

Uh pastor matt do you have any other contact information you care to give.

I think you covered it.

Thank you.

And pastor jansma.

Uh look for my fortnightly column uh blog post on meet the puritans.

I'm uh writing uh commentary on.

39 articles.

Great in fact.

Uh uh pastor jansma i uh intend to at some point do a whole

week on iron sharpens iron radio where i address major confessions of the faith

the westminster the 1689 london baptist confession the three forms of unity.

Uh i would love oh the savoy.

I would love to have an addition on the 39 articles if you would like to return at some point to

to take that day to be my guest to to address the 39 articles of religion.

Oh you don't want me to agree to that.

On the air now do you.

Actually yes nice try.

Well i hope that uh nothing disappointed you today that would drive you away from being my guest again.

Okay.

Well we could talk about it uh afterwards at some point off the air but uh thank you thank you

both so much.

And i know that you both have busy schedules that you broke away from in order to be our

guests today at very short notice and i want to thank you both very much for your kindness and

graciousness to do so.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you chris.

All right.

God bless you.

And don't go away folks.

Because our guest coming up after the station break is mike gadosh who is the

founder of solid ground christian books solid -ground

-books .com and he's not only going to be telling us about some excellent

offers that he is currently uh that he currently has through solid ground christian

books but i'd also like him for our anglican listeners to mention some of the things that he has published

by anglican authors because he does have some that i think would be a great interest to any of you

who are listening from that background.

And don't go away.

God willing we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors

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Hi i'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to.

The pastor's study.

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Of iron sharpens iron radio and we have none other than the founder and director of

solid ground christian books with us right now.

That's mike gadosh a dear friend of mine for many years going back to the mid -1980s my very first pastor

after my rebirth the man who plunged me beneath the waters of baptism and who

was my mentor in the faith for so many years and still continues to be.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio.

Mike gadosh.

Well thank you chris and happy birthday to you my friend.

No thank you very.

Much in spite of your insults on my appearance earlier i welcome your.

You're trying to make up.

For that with a birthday kiss it's his tongue in cheek my friend that's what it is.

I'm jealous.

Well before i go into what you primarily wanted to promote today the leather editions of certain things

since we had two conservative calvinist confessional anglicans on the first 90 minutes i

thought that you might want to let any of our listeners know that are connected with that

uh fellowship uh i thought you might want them to know about some of the things that you publish by

anglicans and episcopalians such as lectures on the law and gospel and the christian

pastor both by stephen h ting and anyone else anyone else from that.

Background.

Yeah um macklevain charles macklevain we've um we've published the born again

gifted

man gifted preacher

banner truth did a small book of his centered preaching and

we've also done it in life and um 22

christ -centered sermons that he preached and uh he was a uh a very

very special gospel oriented in all of his

ministry in every way he was.

Uh he was just a a sensational.

Here he was.

Um he was just a very.

This was stephen ting

gifted man.

I believe

macklevain revival broke out

that some of the

faculty or some of those in authority became

concerned that the that the men being trained

were going to be turned away from it in

ministry

he was the first

instituted giving every graduate a uh was either a bible or a new testament and i believe that's still done

to this day.

And that was back that would

believe.

Also was abby even

though he was

american.

Wow.

And i know

that stephen h ting

is such a.

Precious jewel for you have for you to have discovered.

I mean i'm amazed that many conservative calvinistic anglicans aren't even familiar with him.

And yeah right what a what a.

He was a pastor the rector of saint george's episcopal church.

I was so delighted to have a tour of that church by reverend jacob smith who's the current rector and who shares

shares much of the theology of steven h ting.

That's why he actually accepted a call there.

Because he knew that stephen ting was the rector in the 19th century.

Well i know that

his earl blackburn he

has ever read

wow.

And he's a reformed baptist.

And he's a reformed baptist.

He's given away dozens of copies of that book.

And uh the book 12 lectures is on the lectures on the law

and uh then the last yeah he just does

a phenomenal job of

laying.

He was asked to bring a series of lectures

at the school of theology at boston university back in the 1870s and they were so

well received that they ended up being put into print as a book.

He's also actually in another book called the man of business.

And in the man of business it's actually a book that was written there were there are

lectures from i think six different ministers of that period jw alexander

wb sprague john todd.

Stephen ting just deal with different.

And he also

light at evening time and that's a book for people your age and my age.

A book of thanks a lot a book of comfort and support for the agent.

So since today's your birthday and now you're over 55 you're into you're closer to 60 than you are

to 50.

You're moving on my friend.

And are you trying to push me back to drinking again.

I've tried that a few times but actually this is a great book.

Light at evening time for the agent.

And it's brief.

It's what's it's easier to read.

It has contributions you name it.

And there's a contribution and they're mostly brief.

Um people like

charles bridges thomas brooks john bunyan chris ostom samuel davies you know all the way on to william

wilberforce and mary west pretty

lengthy and ministering to those.

I don't know if you were aware of this but stephen ting

actually.

Designed architecturally designed saint george's episcopal church in manhattan.

And he purposely designed it to be very simple in its structure not

ornate in uh you know really detailed carvings or anything like that.

He wanted the focus to be on the pulpit where the minister was preaching meaning him bringing the word of god.

The lord's table for the for the supper was a very simple table.

There were no candlesticks on it.

There was the there was no cross not even a barren cross.

And the only thing that was on the wall behind him were the ten commandments and the apostles creed.

And uh reverend jacob smith told me that a minister that was unfortunately

appointed their erector uh i believe it was at some point in the 1970s or something he

tore the banners of the ten commandments and the and the uh apostles

creed off of the wall and threw them in the garbage.

He didn't even keep them as a uh historical artifact.

He was that much of a repugnant person theologically.

But anyway i just thought that that would be an important thing to bring up since we have no doubt at least especially

probably when the people start listening to the archive recordings.

We're going to have a lot of episcopalians and anglicans listening and i.

Thought that that might be a good thing to introduce.

Yeah i'm glad you did.

It's very important.

And those those i've appreciated

the what what they wrote.

I'm glad you brought that up.

Uh now moving to the other minute to.

Oh yeah we have 15 minutes.

Okay i have um and should be coming out

within

the next few

weeks.

Uh some of

these

1689 400 order and um

which

so we're

going to be around

march 10th.

And then

i decided.

Well that went.

So when.

Many years.

It's been about five years since i did the three forms of

unity.

It'll be a matching pits

also

the

and the

16 the 1689 that $15 price

$18 for

$15 and we're doing three forms of unity.

And i had uh one of my

300 forms of unity.

So that kick -started that.

And the three

forms of unity being the canons of dort the belgic

confession and

the heidelberg

catechism.

Induction to each

of these

items that's done

by joel.

It's done

well in

the past behind this and

once again this time to to do a new printing of it.

And i'm also going to be doing

probably both of

them inside

it as

well.

And

that's

also 50 and

it's.

It's uh it's remarkable that for decades uh after i became saved

i was not aware of any leather edition of the 1689 london baptist confession until i believe

you or might have.

Been might

have.

That was me.

We we

did it.

Uh the

first time we

did it was 2010.

We are

we

able to.

Go straight through or do you need to take a break.

No no you have the entire time until we're off the.

Air.

Okay uh the the second item i'd like to focus on and i

say well yes.

And the

only reason

why i'm doing it is because a customer

absolutely loves films encouraging me to.

It's called the offer edition.

It's off and george offer

what he

did years

ago.

He's accurate

edition.

His

marginal notes put in

the marginal notes and by margin we're not

talking

in the marginal notes

but more importantly the

original notes

that

bunyan

hymns.

He explains that his marginal notes

two keys to unlocking

going to

be a

paperback

gaining

copies

of the

book

only

has the

lectures

has not

only cheever's

lectures but entitled

bunyan in

his times bunyan's temptations bunyan's

examining

a

friend of

mine

achiever by

far is the

best.

Wow.

Going to be

trying

to 91

edition.

We

don't

in

89.

The three forms and the pilgrim's progress over.

So all of

these are already.

Most of these are now if you go to.

Solid -ground -books .com.

And you want to know about like new things.

Is there any one particular uh.

Thing to click that

would bring there there is if you click on

the categories pre -publication.

I'm glad you mentioned

that changes here

because yeah no

i'm sorry i

want to see what's coming in the future.

You can go

there cb

books and you

get pre

-publication

actually

order right away.

Okay well i want to thank you for being such a vital uh spoke in the wheel of

sponsorship for iron trip and zion radio.

Uh we would not be able to carry on barring a miracle of broadcasting this program without your support.

I thank you so much for that.

And i also thank you for your long -lasting.

Friendship brother love you chris.

I do.

Happy birthday my friend.

Thank you and once again.

The website for solid ground christian books is solid -ground -books .com.

I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior than you are a sinner.