April 13, 2016 Show with Dr. Ron Gleason on “Suicide: A Christian’s Response” PLUS Mike Gaydosh on “What’s Hot Off the Press in Christian Literature”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors

Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed when we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions

Now here's our host Chris Arnton Good Afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet

Earth Listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnton your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 13th day of April 2016 and I'm delighted to have two guests

On the program today that I have grown to really Enjoy interviewing immensely

And the first guest that we are going to have today is dr Ron Gleason pastor of grace

Presbyterian Church, which is a Presbyterian Church in America congregation in Yorba, Linda, California, we're going to be discussing suicide a

Christian's response and then in the second hour Our friend Mike Gadosz the founder of solid grand

Christian books is going to be letting us know What's hot off the press and Christian literature over there at solid ground?

So we hope that you stay tuned for both hours, but first of all, let me welcome back Dr. Ron Gleason to iron sharpens iron.

It's great to have you once again join the iron sharpens iron radio broadcast Thanks, Chris.

It's a joy and delight to be back with you and let me once again introduce you to my co -host

Reverend buzz Taylor and hello again and Dr.

Gleason before we go into the topic at hand suicide a Christian's response I know that you have done this every time that you've been on the program

But just in case somebody is listening that never heard This broadcast before or as who is unfamiliar with you let our listeners know something about grace

Presbyterian Church in Yorba, Linda, California We are an ordinary means of grace church

That means we read the Bible pray the Bible sing the Bible Preach the

Bible and we are traditional. I guess that's probably the best word to describe our service

We are liturgical We believe that coming together for worship is that we put ourselves aside we step out of the profane we enter into the sacred and Every Lord's Day when we worship we join a worship already in in progress in heaven

So we're our aim and our goal is to honor and glorify God and all that we say do and think and to worship him according to the precepts that he has

So clearly and so beautifully given to us in his revealed. Well Amen, and when you said that you sing the

Bible, are you exclusive psalm singers? No, we use the Trinity hymnal, which is a

Trempe and a hymnal that's used primarily by the Presbyterian Church in America and the

Orthodox Presbyterian Church. So there are hymns and psalms that we have and that's primarily what we well you may be aware that they also have a

Reformed Baptist edition of the Trinity hymnal that the congregation Rama member uses Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania and many other

Reformed Baptist churches across the country use the the

Reformed Baptist version of the Trinity hymnal, in fact some of my Presbyterian friends

Prefer the Reformed Baptist version because it's an it's an earlier version of the

Trinity hymnal. Is that the blue one? Yes Yes. Yes. I've looked at that. It is very good

But well, it's always a pleasure to have you on the program and dr. Ron Gleason is a published author and We love to have him return to iron sharpens iron as often as he can

Why is it that you in particular? Wanted to speak on the issue of suicide and then why are you?

Seeking to write a book about it. What was it that drove you to this subject? Obviously, it's a very

Important subject it's a very controversial subject. It's a Subject that touches the lives of millions of people, but why in particular?

What was the driving force behind you getting involved in writing about this or at least you're?

Hoping to have a manuscript done on it. I do have the manuscript done and it is available right now it's only available through Kindle, okay, but it's called if the

Listeners would like to purchase a copy is very reasonably priced and it's entitled when the unthinkable happens and Typically, I thought that was a very it was a very apt title for the book because Suicide is by any stretch of the imagination tragic for the person who commits suicide as well as The family or the loved ones who are left behind what really kind of was the catalyst behind this was that there were a number of people

Who had? Approached me because what I'm trying to do is

I move forward in life is to write a series of easily readable easily digestible

Ethical commentaries designed specifically for the man and the woman in the pew and I think that's important it's not as if I'm opposed to scholarly writing as I like to do those types of things as well, but I think there's a crying need for the man and the woman in the pew to be able to pick up something and Within less than well less than 200 pages get a good handle on what is the ethical issue?

What does the scripture have to say about this ethical issue and how can I apply this in my life?

So I I have that was Probably the motivating force behind that when we were living in Holland Our two oldest sons had a young man that they knew they were not with him when he did it

But a young man that they knew Who committed suicide on the way to school our two boys used to take the train to school we lived in the

Hague, but they went to school in Rotterdam and There were a group there was a group from the general area in which we lived that used to go by bike

So it was a good exercise so they would bike from the Hague to Rotterdam and one day this young man Stopped his bike on the bike path and went down the hill and everybody thought he was just going to relieve himself

And he threw himself in front of a train. Wow. Yeah, and then when I first got out to California back in 1994 there was a pastor that had we we all knew and had moved to another part of the country and And in a very freak accident, he had one of his feet severed by a train and But he was making great recovery the doctor gave him great hope for full recovery and Prosthetic foot he was going to be able to do everything he had done before and He actually while his wife and family were away on vacation.

He went home early And committed suicide again, tragic,

I mean it hit the The community here like a bombshell because it wasn't merely a person who had but it was a pastor

Yeah, and then you have things like I guess most recently you have someone like Robin Williams who for many people today?

He was funny. Yeah, right. Yeah at it all together. He had a good life surprise

Yeah, and so all of a sudden there you have these glaring examples that it crosses gender lines it crosses age lines and everything else and so that was one of the motivating factors just to have the right to book well now

I How many issues or books are you planning on in a series? You said you're writing a series of them?

Well, yes, I am. I have right now. I am I hope maybe in the not -too -distant future

We can discuss the whole idea of cremation versus burial, which will be my next one

I want to look at things like just war and Euthanasia, I think euthanasia and abortion have pretty much been beaten to death

But it does seem to be the case that for every generation they need

Something put in their hands so they can look at it for whatever reason we tend to askew

Older writings, I never cease to be amazed at how many young Pastors and theologians today have never read

BP Warfield Wow I know and yet it seems to be the case and the same thing was my

New Testament professor in Holland was Herman Ritterbosch and I consider

Ritterbosch's book on Paul just a classic and yet it seems like many of the modern theologians today

Get stuck on N .T. Wright. I Think the comparison between those two theologians is just he

I mean, it's huge I think Ritterbosch was a very solid rock solid guy and I think

N .T. Wright tends to take a lot of liberties with the things he shouldn't take liberties Well, some might even say that there's a difference between two

Gospels there. Well, yeah, I was trying to be kind Yeah, it's it's always interesting to me that you'll have a

One of these liberal documentaries on Christianity and N .T. Wright is the token conservative on the program

So, you know, it's got to be Warfield, right? Well, it's interesting that you mentioned the pastor committing suicide that you were aware of The only other interview that I've done on the subject of suicide

Was with my dear friend pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Franklin Square and sometime in the mid 2000s sometime before 2010

I believe I interviewed him and the catalyst behind that interview was the suicide of a pastor

In that denomination that he is in and it shocked everyone I am and after some time

Appropriate time after this occurred. He wanted to address the issue because of the confusion and by the way if anybody is interested in getting the mp3 of that interview with Bill Shishko that I conducted you can email me at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. I thought he did a very thorough job And I'm quite confident that our guests will today in addition to that but Well, the the the book that you've written when the when the unthinkable happens, correct, correct?

in fact, it jogged my memory when you said that because my new webmaster

Coincidentally or providentially after I had already booked you to speak on this subject He emailed me.

He says you've got to have Ron Gleeson speak on suicide on your program So he his wish has been granted here even already before he asked of it, but What is it that you deal with in the book?

Are you dealing with? the Reasons why statistically many people commit suicide or the is it just the approach?

That Christians are to take after this happens. What would be the the main content of the book? Yeah, that's a great question

And very pertinent to to the subject what I try to do is to deal With the whole subject pastorally, which is primarily for me then biblically what does the

Bible Bible say I do have a kind of a brief history of suicide and how it was treated by the

Greek philosophers and then some of the German philosophers and then getting into the whole idea of What we have in Scripture and what

I try to do is I take the examples of Samson in the Old Testament of Saul and his armor -bearer then of a histophel and Zimri and finally

Judas Iscariot and Look at those instances of what does the Bible say about each one of those and I come to the conclusion with the case of Samson that technically you that was not right and suicide

So I try to deal with it that way and then I give us a working definition.

I go through the whole idea of what the sixth commandment has to say about protection of life including our own life

And then I just give kind of a walk -through of the view of suicide from certain

Christian theologians St. Augustine for one the Council of Toledo a

Pope Pope Nicholas the first Thomas Aquinas Martin Luther and the liberal

Swiss theologian Karl Barth and Then I go into a whole idea of how about physician assisted suicide

I was really pleased to be able to talk to a number of physicians my own family physician in particular as well as a

Neurologist here in Southern, California where we are about this and we had a very lively discussion about that and then finally when

I get to the Near the end. I want to talk about practical providence and suffering in general in the

Christian life and I tried to correct some of what was earlier the

Roman Catholic view on Suicide being the unforgivable sin namely that you can't ask

God to forgive you because you've already committed suicide And that was and looking at it and then

I talked about getting the right type of spiritual help Early on it's really a plea from my part to people who either are

Thinking about it Or or who might know somebody who's thinking about it to get the right?

Spiritual help and I mean the right spiritual help. I and I'm going to use the word. It's probably not

Ecclesiastical don't go to a flake No, no one who is going to give you solid biblical understanding and advice about Life and about the nature of suicide and who will pray with you be with you and walk you through it spiritually

Now as you were going through of these historic people you mentioned

Augustine and Others, did you find any consistency in what they had to say you'd pick up any patterns?

They were all basically to a man They were all following the biblical pattern that that suicide

Was something that Christians ought not to do and typically when you would look at someone like say

Augustine or Aquinas or any of the others There would be a reference to the sixth commandment and the understanding of it

I think that's key for the listeners and for Christians today. Anyway, I think many people in our society because Doctrine has been downplayed sometimes from the pulpit by many pastors and it's sometimes been scorned at or ridiculed

That the net result of that is that there is no real foundation for doing ethics and I my personal view is that If I'm going to be if I'm a

Christian and I'm going to be doing Ethics or what is often called in our society practical

Christian living I must make a thorough study of the Ten Commandments Mm -hmm.

And so if I don't understand the the extension of the sixth commandment

For example, I'm not going to understand what a dastardly thing this is in God's eyes

For me to even contemplate suicide. Yeah, that's so one of the things that a dear pastor friend of mine reminded someone

Who attempted a suicide and survived who was really in some sense is downplaying the

Seriousness of the of the sin behind it right and he had to this pastor friend of mine had to remind this individual

You got to realize that you just attempted a murder This people seem to look at suicide as something other than that, but it is

When it's successful and that's a bizarre way of phrasing successful, but It's a murder if if the suicide actually takes place a

Murder has been committed. So this is not something that Should be taken less seriously than if somebody kills another human being although Aren't there there areas?

I mean we sit here very we may sound very glib about this And unconcerned about what other people are experiencing in life, but obviously even though we would not agree with Suicide by any stretch of the imagination

You could at least have some kind of empathy with somebody who is racked with Torturous agony due to some kind of an ailment or something

You can but and I do as a pastor and as a theologian.

I Certainly do but again we go back to Modern Christianity, I believe that modern

Christians have been deprived of being able to deal with reality when people go to worship and Worship is little more than crass entertainment then the the person entertaining

The the man or the woman in the pew is Really saying to them.

I really don't care enough about you to tell you the truth and The truth is that the hard reality is that we are sinners

We live in a sinful fallen world and that life really is hard There's a in the book of common prayer, which

I don't we don't use but I do read it occasionally There's a Quotation in there that says in the midst of life

We are in death and that's true of all of us that in the midst of life We are we are in death and unless we make

Man and the woman in the pew aware of this then we're probably going to look at something like this

Globally, and they're going to expect that life is supposed to be easy It isn't

I would just give two examples of my life there are many many more I could give but let me just give you two in 1977 my wife had a total totally normal pregnancy

She gave birth to our first daughter our third child and Yannicka who was born in Holland Was was and is mentally handicapped that was hard and She didn't have down syndrome as a matter of fact the geneticists and the neurologists have never been able to pin a name on it so we just call it that she's just Yannicka and But she is now she's 38.

She still lives with us at home. She's 38 going on five And that's the way she is she's delightful we love her

She's part of the family, but but that was a hard time and sometimes it still remains a hard time

After that we had a daughter born who was fine and then we had another son who was born with down syndrome, and he died after four months and Those were hard times the

Puritans call those times dark providences And they really push us in our trust for God, but if we don't have and Thankfully we had we were in a congregation then that it's that Taught the whole idea the nature and the character of God and so we

Understood that and we understood the whole idea of being in relationship with God in a covenant

Relationship that God would never leave us and God would never forsake us and if we can't get back in modern

Christianity to a true understanding of the nature and the character of God Then we're going to be we're going to be bereft of being able to go through these really dark

Providences at the same time in the 10th chapter, which is my concluding chapter

I use Some information from RC Sproul, and I have really appreciated what

RC Has has written on the subject in his books on Providence the book called the invisible hand and And then

I is what his book called surprised by suffering both of those are just excellent reads But one of the things he says is in his book on the invisible hand on God's providence is that God rules over pain and Disease just as sovereignly as he rules over Prosperity and I know that's a tough sell for a lot of people today, but it really is true

We are loathe to allow God to be God or allow to allow

God to be sovereign So we end up giving mere lip service to the absolute sovereignty of God in all things

I preached a couple of weeks ago on the fact of God's testing and I made the point that When God tests say for example, he tested

Abraham Or when God tested in second Chronicles when

God tested Hezekiah It wasn't as if God didn't know what was in the heart of either one of those men

It was that he wanted to show them what was in their hearts and it's so easy for us to get

To the point where we fool ourselves About what's truly in our hearts and that we trust

God or God is our God and we're willing to do all of these things You know when

I think about something like the death of the son of David and Bathsheba When that son died after that adulterous relationship

The first thing that is recorded in Scripture that David did was that he went and worshipped

God And he wasn't being flippant about it. He wasn't giving us pie in the sky

He was simply saying this is that this is what true sovereignty is is all about Like Joe would say even though he would slay me.

I will serve him and I think that unfortunately today because of The fact that we are surrounded

So often by people that portray an ease of life and ease of lifestyle as a pastor

I don't think I I have that luxury because I not only am I learning to know myself

But I know people around me all the time and there are Struggles in life.

Some of those struggles are minor If it's a teenager, you just broke up with your girlfriend You think life's over and you try to say, you know get over it

You're going to be able to go ahead, but there are other things where there's infidelity on people's part

There's drug addiction on people's part I write in the book that there was a woman that I knew a couple that I knew in another congregation in another country

Where the husband came home one day and told her that he had committed adultery and that he was leaving her for another man

Hmm. Yeah, I know So, what do you do you just you look you hear that and you groan and we we knew this guy and the good news

So that story that story has a very happy ending because the man repented The one his wife stuck with him and that marriage is really strong now.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I think she was quite a woman. Yeah, that sounds like I think maybe this may sound like a silly question to some people but perhaps a brief definition of suicide is an order because some people may think that any action on the part of a person where death is certain or almost certain would be classified as suicide like for instance acts of heroism where where people are doing something to rescue others with the goal of the rescue not the goal of killing themselves, but the goal of being of service to others and some have even perhaps in a mocking way or perhaps just in a total misunderstanding of Christ's sacrifice since he laid down his life willingly they some have categorized that as suicide

Right. Yeah, I deal with those those are those that's a great nuance, by the way

Because it really is important to make that I mean in church just in terms of the

Latin derivation of the word suicide It comes from the prefix we and the root terms cadere, which means basically with Malice of forethought and with premeditation to take one's life

So would it be technically suicide if for example in the midst of war?

a Soldier threw himself on a grenade To and that's not technically suicide

That is laying down his life for another and even in the history of the church The church has never looked at something like that as technically suicide, but really more self -sacrifice

For for someone else So if that were to happen or if for example a

Secret Service man We're step were to step in front of the president of the United States and take a bullet

For the president of the United States. He's simply doing his duty and he's not committing suicide.

What happens is that if somebody Intentionally does that type of thing?

then they Intentionally takes his or her own life because the circumstances just seem to be too hard and that's that Constitutes suicide interestingly in the history as I was doing the research for the book

In many lands and I'll just use England if someone Intentionally took his or her own life

That was considered not only Sad but it was considered to be a felony and I remember when

I first read that I kind of smiled to myself But I said a felony. Yeah, how are they going to impose that and the answer was and is

Historically that it was imposed on the family Here's the way it worked

When you go back into antiquity to Plato and Aristotle and many of the other philosophers

Suicide was considered to be a crime against the community that each person

Was an integral part of any given community and to take one's life

Was to sin or commit a crime against the community itself now in England when this happened a person that committed suicide was not allowed to be buried and were taken to a crossroads and a stake was driven through their heart

Wow, yeah, and And then the family had to usually pay a huge penalty

Because and sometimes it would mean the losing of the farm or the losing of the land or the losing of the business

Because this was taken so seriously now I today in our politically correct world.

We everybody would gasp Oh my goodness back, but there is that sense and I think from a

Christian perspective you're looking at someone or you are someone who was created in God's image and That image as we know from the early accounts in Genesis is not to be attacked but we know that from Genesis 1 26 through 28 that God Conferred if you will and created male and female in his image after the flood in Genesis 9 5 through 6 we have the whole reiteration of the fact that if Someone takes man's life by life that be striking at the image of God in man, and that is the sin and ultimately in the whole idea of murder, for example

Many will opine that what happens in that striking at a human being is that man is

Really striking at God who created man So that was carried over into to suicide night.

I chronicled that in the in the book We're gonna go to a brief break right now

And if you'd like to join us with a question of your own for dr. Gleason our email address is

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris arnzen at gmail .com

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So the email address again is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Don't go away it will be right back to our discussion with dr.

Ron Gleason and the subject of suicide a Christian response

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Or am I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ Hi, I'm Mark Lukins pastor of Providence Baptist Church We are a reformed

Baptist Church when we hold to the London Baptist confession of faith of 1689 We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts We strive to reflect

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the

Apostles priority it must not be ours either We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man

And to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ In truth and love if you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area

Please come and join us for worship and fellowship. You can call us at 508 -528 -5750

That's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our

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That's Providence Baptist Church ma .org or even on sermon audio .com Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

Welcome back This is Chris Arnsin, and if you've just tuned us in our guest today is dr

Ron Gleeson, we are discussing the topic suicide a Christian response and Dr.

Gleeson has written a book that right now is available on Kindle on This theme titled when the unthinkable happens

I mean if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnsin at gmail .com Chris Arnsin at gmail .com

Obviously There are two groups of people that need to be reached when we discuss the issue of suicide as Christians Primarily the first would be those who are contemplating it in the with the goal that you would want to rescue them from Even thinking about such an act but even more importantly from from following through with such an act the second group of people are those whose lives have been crushed who are in Mental agony and anguish and sorrow over The loss of this loved one who has has committed suicide

Because of the guilt that's often involved with those who survive and are left behind and also because there are

Some like Roman Catholics and even many within the the

Arminian camp the extreme Arminian camp that would go as far as Believing that you can lose your salvation, even if you are a genuine born -again believer

They would say that that person is certainly in hell very often so let's start with the

The first group that we want to reach obviously and meet you've already touched on on Some of these things that they need to hear but if you could before we reach out to the families

Let us hear what you have to say to those who might be listening who are so depressed that they are

Contemplating this this sin. Yeah, that's I thank you for the privilege of doing that.

I would say to anyone who is Depressed about these matters one of the as in my 35 years of pastoral ministry when someone has come to me and has

Explained to me that they're terribly depressed about something and I began to probe

More deeply into what it is that's going on. There's there are such things

I believe as as clinical depression and So if if the person believes that they are clinically depressed

Then I think they should begin by seeking some type of help from their physicians, but typically depression ends up being a catch -all phrase and depression is

Code in many cases for the fact that I have sinned and I have sinned greatly

And I have sinned over a long period of time and just as we read in Psalm 32

The Holy Spirit is leaning on me and he is leaning on me Heavily, we call that conviction and he's convicting me of my sin and I can't get out from under it

David writes about that in the 32nd Psalm and talks about how after his

Adultery with Bathsheba he covered it up and he got on with life as usual business as usual run the kingdom and The next thing you know, he says that God's Spirit's hand was heavy upon him sapped him of his strength and then he comes to the conclusion

He said I met finally I did what I knew I was supposed to do all along. I Confessed my sin and wallah

God Forgave me my sin now today in our society. We don't think it's that simple

We know that we and others like us place conditions on forgiveness all the time

David's witness there is very health -giving because it simply says eventually

I did what I knew I was supposed to do and God forgave you really was that simple

I write in the book that one of my theses as a pastor is that faith is simple and that evil is complex

And so evil means if so, for example, if a man is going out He's going committing adultery with his secretary or our neighbor or whatever else he has to lie

He has to cover it up. He has to retrace his tracks He's got to develop a near photographic memory because he has to remember all the lies that he told

So there's there's that aspect. However If a person is really that much under the gun

I believe the most important thing that that person can do is not only

Return to the Bible and start reading the Bible for him or for herself But to attach him or herself to a church where the pastor and the leadership are true

Shepherds that is to say that the pastor will not be too busy to take time with them

The pastor will not be too busy to counsel them and when he counsels with them

He will point them to what Scripture says I think of you know A couple of things that come to mind that I I hope that people remember if I were in that situation

I would remember something very Fundamental the 23rd psalm

It says that even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death

I would fear no evil because the God that I love who has loved me first and the

God that I serve is with me He's not going to forsake me. He's going to take me by the hand as it were and he is going to lead me through This situation and in 35 years of pastoral ministry

I have seen a number of people be led through very difficult situations if I may

I'd like to give an illustration Yeah, definitely We were living in a little village of Compton in Holland, which is in the middle of the country

It's just this idyllic little village And we used to let our boys go all over the place.

Everything was basically five minutes by bike and in Compton and One day our son did not come home on time.

He was at a friend's house and we called the house and they the

Parents picked up the phone and said no he left here about 15 minutes ago and I thought well, that's odd He should be home because it was dinner time

And there was a knock on the door and I went there and it was a man that I did not know standing at the Door my son was standing by behind him and this man said to me, is this your son?

And I said, I don't know. What did he do? No, I didn't I said yeah, and I said everything okay and in Holland they have bike paths that run they're separate from the roads and My this man was driving by in this car and my son was riding his bike and all of a sudden the frame snapped

And my son ended up running behind the front wheel in the handlebars And this guy pulled his car over put the bike in the trunk and brought my son in the bike home so after dinner, we knew a welder and I We took to put the bike in the in our car

We drove to the welder and the guy put it in his huge vice and he's getting ready to weld this thing He's got the helmet on and all the rest and I said to him before he started

I said wait is is this going to be safe for him to ride and he said to me Ron if I do it, right?

this will be stronger than the original material and I'm thinking that there are many things in life that break us and As a pastor,

I've seen Legion There's just many things that break people's lives and that are hurtful that are painful.

I mean really painful And I'm to the point now where people come in So I got to tell you something that you probably never heard this.

I just smile knowingly thinking. Yeah, but I'd never happen but I do believe in my heart of hearts that if someone is to the point of breaking or being broke if They will but allow

God to put them back together Their lives will be stronger than the original material

You do have people who think? Wrongly that they are going to be committing some kind of an act of heroism in their suicide because they may think

That all the people they know their family members their neighbors

Former friends they may think that these people hate them because of some Evil act they've done in there.

They feel remorse over this evil act. They may be ill and be a financial and physical drain on everybody they know and There are all sorts of reasons why people who commit suicide think wrongly that this is some noble act of heroism but Isn't that just a delusion and and in the end a selfish act even if it's if it's painted with the brush of Heroism.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's just missed guided thinking. It's I have had

Ample opportunity to Minister to those who have lost loved ones to suicide.

They're just absolutely heartbroken That it's it's something that it's almost indescribable that the pain that they experience because People as we as people

Sometimes make really good decisions, especially if we're doing those making those decisions in concert with Scripture But there are other times when we make

Decisions that for lack of a better phrase are just boneheaded. They're just awful things. We all do that.

We're all guilty of it And it did that is is a lie from Satan that oh

Everybody's going to be better if I'm not around everybody's going to be happier if I'm not around and you know money is just money

If I think it's family When everything push comes to shove and everything else is going on what you have is family and in most

Situations family loves one another and Family is what

God has given to us and not only Our immediate family, but I think if you are in a solid church you're going to have a church family that's going to surround you with the love of Christ and Who ought to understand more than any secularist in the entire world?

What the love of Christ looks like very specific tangible ways and There are even those people perhaps this might be something that is more prevalent amongst young people but they romanticize the whole notion of Suicide these are most likely people who do not believe in hell right and who you might have a young man whose

Girlfriend either broke up with him or perhaps she died and he wants to live on in legend in the community where he lives by taking his own life as this final act of Everlasting eternal love for this person or whatever the case may be

And of course, of course the genders could be reversed. It could be the girl who does this

I can even remember many years ago As a teenager going to a concert in New York City and the trip home was delayed because a

Young man committed suicide on the railroad tracks because his girlfriend had done the same thing a week or so earlier

So this this whole kind of thing. This is this. This is a very dangerous thing that has been romanticized in Movies and books and even music a blue oyster cult

Even had a song that they were famous for don't fear the Reaper Romeo and Juliet are together in eternity.

We can be like they are Come on, baby. Don't feel the Reaper. That was like the the the line that was repeated

But this is a very dangerous thing, isn't it? It's it's awful in the first place. It's an exercise in Crass autonomy and Ultimately, you know, that's the whole question of you know of the existentialism with John Paul Sartre and Albert Camus Basically saying them the biggest existential question that we face is should

I take my own life because I'm I'm now ruler king over my own life and that morphs over into being

Playing God If I believe that God is in control and I do and I believe that God is an absolute control

I believe that as well that I believe he is Lord of all of life so this whole idea of lordship and I understand from a purely secularist

Standpoint. I mean there's a number of Again, this is probably not an ecclesiastical term

There are a number of dopey ideas out there that when a woman stands up and and says it's my body

I can do what I want to with it, really Who made that body who gave us body?

Did you create that body yourself? You don't think that this body is on loan to you from God The same thing would be true of anybody who who's thinking of these romanticized things from rock songs

Probably are not the most reliable guide when it comes to how we ought to live blue -oyster cult notwithstanding And Now since we only have about 10 minutes left or so those who are

Experiencing the devastation of a loved one who has committed suicide now

How do you minister to someone who has been convinced that that person is? Certainly in hell.

I mean I know of people In fact, let me read a there's a there's a listener who

I want to make sure that the question is asked An anonymous listener from Long Island, New York My brother was a devout

Christian who led me to Christ and led many other people to Christ He was on antidepressant

Medication and changed his medication which led him to the act of suicide

Should I fear where he is spending his eternal life?

No, I The pastor that I described earlier

Underwent the same type of thing after the his foot was severed He was placed on certain antidepressants, which again ought to be an ample warning to us that We are one nation under under medication that we we tend to pop pills for almost everything and so say for example a doctor the patient goes into a doctor and says that they're anxious and they're nervous about something and let's say just Hypothetically that this person is clinically depressed.

So the doctor prescribes an anxiolytic agent and All that does is mask the depression and in reality drive the person further into Depression because the real diagnosis has been missed.

It really wasn't anxiety. It was truly a clinical depression I would say to those people my heart goes out to you

I dedicated the book to all those who have lost loved ones

Through suicide. I know it's just tragically Painful but to this listener that emailed the question

I Believe that there's at times things that for us are are inexplicable and unless you would have

Very very very valid reasons for thinking that your loved one denied the faith

Then I would say that that that loved one is with the Lord and will spend eternity with the

Lord But I would also say that it would be very important indeed imperative For the ones who are left behind to make certain again that they are in a solid church

Where they can receive biblical counseling and biblical pastoral care

To help them walk through this this tragedy because that's one of the things that I think is just hugely

Missing today is that a number of pastors are that are are performers and they

The need that the dying no pun intended dying and crying need

Today is for pastors to function as pastors to understand that God has called them to that Congregation and that the lion's share of their time and their attention is to be spent in that Congregation and on that congregation and not out doing all the the wonderful things of speaking at conferences and everything else

So I would say to the ones who have lost loved ones get to someone that you trust and that you know and who is a solid

Christian and Meet with them as often as you need to meet with them and have prayer time together read

God's Word together be comforted by God's Word and Be what

Paul writes about in 2nd Corinthians is being able to comfort others with the comfort with which you have been comforted

So instead of just sitting around not thinking you're just thinking about yourself. Think about how you might

Through God's Word help others. I will go back to the example. I used earlier when my wife and I returned our young son to the

Lord and We were able After that to talk to so many people who had lost

Children in infancy and just say to them. Well, we know it's hard We really know we've been there.

We've we've walked in your shoes Let us tell you which text the Holy Spirit gave to us and how they comforted us and let us tell you how our church community surrounded us with the love of the

Lord Jesus and And helped us through this situation. You don't have to go it alone

All too often we do go it alone and I've always found in terms of military

That the sniper is the person who's after the straggler the person who's out there all by him or herself

They are easy pickings for the sniper. So you God has placed us in communities placed us in Relationship with himself through faith.

He's placed us in community with our local congregation make good use of that Obviously, this is the subject is has a two -edged sword because on the one hand

You want to be firm with your theology and our theology as Reformed Christian teaches us that Jesus Christ death paid for every sin of all of his elect people and At the same time when we are firm on that and we want to make it clear that suicide is no exception to that That if one is truly one of God's children the death of Christ Paid for that sin even the sin of suicide on the other hand.

We don't want to Give people a false sense of security that if they commit suicide that they are going to be with Christ for eternity even though our theology would

Would drive us to Proclaim especially to mourning loved ones that the death of Christ even paid for the sin of suicide

Shouldn't those who are contemplating this Wonder if they are truly saved

I think if if nothing else, I think that's a great point and I think if nothing else

We need to drive home the point that there are secretive things that only

God knows and I Have given up trying to plumb the depths of the unrevealed Divine mind, but I do know that he has revealed his will for my daily

Life and my daily walk and part of that revealed will is that I am

NOT to take my own life That there is indeed a a point to suffering but I think the almost ineluctable problem for many today is we look around us at society and Society gives us a

Distorted and skewed view of everything is just fine. Everything's hunky -dory Everything's perfect, and I'm the only one going through this

I I have had so many people come to me and say I'm probably the only person who thinks this

I'm probably the only person who's done this and I always refer them to first 1st Corinthians 10 13

Don't you realize that no temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man

I'd like to be able to say to you in truth. You are the unique event, but you aren't yeah

And Peter really addressed that a lot, too Yeah, no surprise when you encounter all these things exactly exactly and I think in our society

We are surprised when trials come upon us We are surprised when there's suffering in life and it isn't pleasant

Nobody wants to sugarcoat it and nobody wants to say oh, it's you know, it's really not that bad It is it's hard.

It really is hard, but we are to follow God Even when we don't see the rhyme and the reason for it.

God has said, you know, it's the Psalm 119 verse 68 God is good and he does good and so because that is good

I'm to follow him because he will never lead me anywhere where his grace will not sustain me and one thing

I think that we should cover before you leave is there may be People who wrongly in my opinion, perhaps we will hear something different from you, but I I tend to doubt it people who wrongly are racked with guilt because they signed a do not resuscitate

Document in a hospital. There's a difference between Assisted suicide and Removing life support.

Those are different things, aren't they? Oh hugely different and that's one of the things I would like to spend more time

Writing about or talking about but we had to do that with with our son. We had to decide.

Okay Do we want to operate do we want to use this apparatus that apparatus and there are times when we have to say

Well, one of my ethics professors in Holland helped me greatly He said there is in body in the

Bible. There is a high view of the sanctity of life, but there is not an Absolute view that is to say we don't need to try to keep a loved one alive at all cost

Irrespective of everything else. So if somebody the doc comes in and says to me, okay your loved one here

We try this or that or the other they may live another week or they may live another 10 hours Then at that particular point you you can truthfully say and this is the

I think the typical When do you pull the plug? But situations that you can truthfully say because you know that your loved one is going to go and be with the

Lord if they're Believer that you don't want to keep them alive any longer than you have to by artificial means at all

There is there is not an absolute Sanctity of life, but there is a high sanctity of life and would you view in a different way?

Life support systems that for instance pump oxygen into the lungs than a feeding tube

With a patient who's completely conscious like I think of the tragedy the travesty of Terry Chiavo Oh, yeah

I wrote a lot about those types of things and I think when a if a person is capable of Let's say they're comatose and they're capable of breathing on their own

I think you let them breathe until they breathe their last but if it's artificially done and It's but as far as like feeding a person who is conscious and able to express the motion

They're not brain -dead or they show evidence of reacting to stimulation and so on with smiles and things like that Shouldn't they the loved ones continue to feed the person through absolutely, right?

Well, obviously we could talk about this for many more hours But I know that you could only be on for an hour today

And I eagerly look forward to having you back on the program If you could remind our listeners one more time about your church website in any other way

You'd like them to get in touch with you. Sure The church website is www

One word here grace Presbyterian dot net and There's a place there if you want to get in touch with me, you can send an email to the pastor

I'd love to hear from you. That's grace Presbyterian net and also you could look up on Amazon The Kindle version of the book when the unthinkable happens by our guest.

Dr. Ron Gleeson We look forward to having you back very soon. God willing brother. Thank you very much It's always a pleasure to be with you guys

Yes It's always a pleasure to have you on and I hope that our listeners don't go away because we do have

Joining us God willing and any moment our guest our second guest

Mike Gadosz the founder of solid ground Christian books and Hopefully he will be joining us momentarily but if you have any questions for Mike on the literature.

He's producing through solid ground Christian books Our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com

That's Chris Ornson at gmail .com Don't go away. We're gonna be right back with Mike James White of Alpha Omega ministries

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Welcome back This is Chris orange And if you just tuned us in the guests that we have for the second hour happens to be the founder of that ministry that organization that we

Just heard an advertisement for solid ground Christian books. I'm speaking of another that none other than Mike Gadosh Not only my very first pastor after coming to Christ in the 80s, but a dear friend who has remained very close and dear to me for all these years and Is involved in a publishing ministry that has blessed the lives of countless

Numbers of people across the globe through the solid ground Christian books ministry

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Mike Gadosh Thanks, brother.

Chris. Good to talk to you again And let me introduce you. I think this may be the first time

I'm not I don't know for certain But I think this may be the first time that you have been my guest when my co -host

Reverend buzz Taylor has been a part of the program. Oh, no, I've buzzed around with him before.

Oh, really you have Maybe that was just a memory.

I was trying to forget But before we even go into some particular books that are either already

Available on your catalog or those that are going to be hot off the press in the near future

Tell us our listeners more about solid ground Christian books solid ground began 15 years ago and We began with a desire to bring back books that have been out of print for some time in some cases over a hundred or two hundred years and also to bring back some books that were

Were in print but had gone out of print again like in some cases Banner of Truth Had done them back maybe in the 50s or 60s and didn't do them again

And and I felt through my own personal experience with these books the necessity of bringing them back into print a book such as thoughts on preaching by JW Alexander, which is

Just a marvelous book that Joe beaky calls the best devotional book for a pastor and a preacher

Wow and Things like that, but then in the past several years.

I've also begun to do new books from new authors book that That we've spoken about before by David Dykstra called yearning to breathe free question mark thoughts on immigration

Islam and freedom a book that was written about ten years ago and was a very significant book at that time was featured as the top 100 book by world magazine and It was a book that was really used of the

Lord back then but now has begun to have a revival with the rise sadly once again of radical

Islam and The book is very very helpful. Dave has done a wonderful job did a tremendous amount of work and research and And that's another more recent book that we've done and So I'm doing old books and now

I'm doing a lot more new books In fact, you just had that Ron Gleason on and Ron and I are working on a project together

I don't know if he mentioned it in the previous hour, but He's working on a book on the Second Amendment the

Christians view of the Second Amendment. And yes, we We interviewed

Ron on that. In fact, we're instrumental in hooking you guys up. That's exactly right That's exactly right.

Your memory is serving you. Well Also, we Tony Meano you've you've interviewed

Tony Yes, and Tony and I are working on a book together as well called cross encounters ten years of engaging people in the streets with the gospel and I'm excited about working with him and There's just there are a lot of projects that are going on and the

Lord has continued to bless and direct our steps I've appreciated the fact that you've been having a lot of my authors on recently you've had

Ed Wallin on and discussed his book leaving Darkland and you've had Brandon Smith, I don't know if you had

Kurt yet. No, not yet. I'm looking forward to having them both on together and good Yeah, well, they have a book called gospel heritage of Georgia Baptist.

Mm -hmm Just an outstanding book that is not just for Georgia Baptists But anybody who cares about the gospel and they've done a just a marvelous job and I'm working right now with a man

Tom Isham, we're doing a book biography of Augustus Montague top lady entitled

Rock of Ages the little known man behind the well -known hymn and he's done a marvelous job of Recapturing the heart of this man and that's going to be actually out within the next week

And hasn't the Lord used solid grand Christian books to Rediscover men that were largely if not completely forgotten by our present

Time of like for instance, I know that you have published in the past Works by men that I had never heard of.

I don't know how widely known Ichabod Spencer was until you brought that book back Yeah, that's a that's a perfect example

Ichabod Spencer was completely unknown Well, not completely unknown but but largely unknown

In the 20th century. He had been a godly man and pastor in the in the early to middle 1800s died in 1854 and his book pastors a pastor's sketches

Went through just dozens and dozens of editions, but the last edition was in the late 1800s and It was a hundred years before we brought it out again

And he had been largely forgotten in the book had been largely forgotten as well.

And now it has become an extremely popular book used by pastors and evangelists,

I know Tony Miano and So many others that that are involved in street preaching and evangelism have just been overwhelmed by Pastors sketches by by Spencer So yeah

That's that is another thing that the Lord has allowed me to do through the through the reprinting of these old books

Well, where on earth do you find all these things? I mean if they're going I think of this book that's you know, forgotten and all of a sudden there it is

How do you know I well actually that's good question, I don't find them all all the time sometimes

I do But many times some a brother of Christ who knows me

Will ask me about a particular title and have you ever heard of such -and -such and that book actually pastor sketches that is

Originally came to me from Steve Martin Pastor Steve Martin wild and crazy guy

Not the famous Steve Martin the less famous But the funnier Steve Martin And Steve actually had sent me a photocopy of the book and he had heard about it from David Vaughn longtime missionary in France who's still serving in France and David is actually the man who uncovered it

Sent it to Steve said he had never read anything like it Sent it to me and then after I read it

I realized how incredible the book was and so 15 years ago actually when we launched solid ground

It really was the flagship book It's the book that we really launched solid ground with and I'm very thankful that it's gone through several different editions and printings for ourselves

And more recently we did a joint venture with another publisher and brought it out in a beautiful double

Volume or it's in one volume, but the two volumes in one in a hardcover edition.

Yeah, it's the nicest edition That's really ever been done of that book going all the way back to the 1800s

So we're excited about the opportunity to Introduce people to men who have served

Christ in earlier generations and have been long forgotten Yeah, I find it interesting that a book that you published that really blessed me tremendously

Even though I am NOT a pastor and many people are thankful over that that fact

The the book by Stephen Ting who I was surprised after devouring that book on the

Christian pastor I forget the title right off the top of my head That's the title. Oh, that's okay Chris the

Christian pastor and he I was surprised that even among the conservative theologically reformed and Calvinistic Anglicans and Episcopalians of course, which is a tiny minority today that he is even largely unknown to many of them.

I did Providentially meet and become a friend with the man who is now the rector of st.

George's Church in New York City the church that was actually pastored by Stephen Ting in the 19th century but and he in fact, that's the very reason why he moved from New Mexico to New York City to pursue the

Ministry is because he knew of Ting's involvement with that church. But other than him, it's amazing how when

I talked to Brother our brethren in Christ from the Anglican Communion from the the reformed wing of it that is

It's amazing how very few of them even have heard of Ting and I'm so glad that you've revived his works

Yeah, I've actually I've not only done the book on the

Christian pastor the office and duty of the gospel minister, but He I also have done a book called lectures on the law and the gospel and that is 24 lectures the first 12 on lectures on the law in the last 12 lectures on the gospel and brother

Earl Blackburn Has purchased to give away

Dozens and dozens of copies of this book and Earl is a very well -read man

And you know, he's persuaded that it's the best thing that he's ever read that really explains the importance and the relationship between the law and the gospel and That's a that's a book that we've that we've done.

It's been out for several years We've also done another book entitled the man of business his influence temptations responsibilities enterprise and principles of action and that was actually a book that was written in the late 1850s and it was a combined work by James W.

Alexander William B Sprague John Todd Stephen King and two other lesser -known men

Jonathan Stearns and Isaac Ferris and it's a just a marvelous practical book that deals with all the different aspects of met the man of business and and Kings Contribution to that book was entitled men of business their perplexities and temptations

Hmm and then in addition to that I've also done a book called white at evening time a book of support and comfort for the aged

Which is something that's actually applicable for me now now that I'm 65 this year

I'm moving to the to the position of being one of the aged and it's called white at evening time and Stephen King actually wrote the

Introduction a lengthy introduction very helpful introduction, and it's a book that is filled with more than a hundred contributions by men like Augustin Thomas Adams Alexander Richard Baxter Horatius Bonner Charles Bridges Thomas Brooks John Bunyan Samuel Davies John Flavel John Gill Thomas Guthrie Robert Hawker Matthew Henry etc etc etc and and Stephen King in his introduction says the title of this work is well selected

There is but one light to this dark and sinful world That is the gracious Savior who visited this world for its full redemption and who gave to its fallen

Wandering ones the infallible assurance that whosoever followeth him shall not walk in darkness

But shall have the light of life life Jesus Christ the Lamb of God and the Lord of man is the own is the one living adequate glorious light on earth

For the aged and for the young as well and so those are the four books that I've published that have either entirely done by Tame or that he has a significant contribution in Before I ask you to get more into the newer releases or soon -to -be released books like you to tell our listeners something about the book that the

Pastors and men in leadership are getting at the iron sharpens iron Pastors luncheon coming up on April 28th

I know that you're providing books by Peter Jeffrey and I'm asking for you to tell us something about that book

One of the reasons is that as you may remember Peter Jeffrey has will forever have a enormous place in my heart because When my own mother was on her deathbed

Providentially Peter was in the United States visiting here from Wales going on a speaking tour and happened to be speaking at Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville and He Sat with my mother all alone while she was on her deathbed for probably a half hour at least and And I remember the the the weight of Anxiety being lifted off my shoulders because I had such a fear of my mother perhaps holding on to Roman Catholic superstition that he she had been raised in as a as Her understanding of why she was entering into eternal glory with Christ and And Peter when he emerged from that That house said to me.

I don't know what you're worried about this. This woman's going to heaven. She's a Christian She's as clear as day.

She believes in the gospel and Although that I had already heard my mother expressed the gospel with me and in the hospital having that that added weight of of Evidence from somebody like Peter Jeffrey was was a precious gift from God to hear him say that Yeah, well, you're right

Peter. Peter is a precious man and he he loves Christ and loves the gospel and the book that I have sent copies is called chain of grace and A chain of grace is the story of Peter Jeffrey It's his wife's story and one of the reasons why that's such a important book is it has pictures of me in it and That actually takes the value of it down significantly

But but Peter when we were the first ones our church was actually the first church to bring

Peter to the u .s. in all around the world, but I've never been to the u .s.

And and back in the 1992. I Remember this expressly because the day we received stepping heavenward the very first time we published it at Calvary Press in 1992 was the day that they arrived and got off the plane and we handed a copy to to Peter's wife

Lorna and and so those two events kind of happened simultaneously for us and I just I'll never forget

Peter's sermons that first year that he was with us and Just how God blessed and the book chain of grace is really his story

Which is quite a remarkable story of God's grace in his life The day that he was saved he beat that morning

In in in anger and arrogance. He basically cried out. I will never become a

Christian Hmm and and that night the Lord had mercy and saved him and opened his heart And that was actually the title of one of his own books that he wrote exactly

He wrote a book entitled. I will never become a Christian and he begins it by telling that story of his own conversion and the book change of grace tells not just the story of his conversion, but his call to ministry and The significant role that dr.

Martin Lloyd -Jones had in his life and ministry And the doctor was a very dear friend of Peter Jeffrey and Peter actually had the chance to preach become the pastor of the church that Was the first church that Lloyd -Jones pastored in in Port Talbot Sanfields in Port Talbot Wales and Peter's most significant ministry as far as pastorally was at Rugby in England and and Peter tells in that book

Several of the remarkable conversions that took place during his ministry at Rugby There was something of a revival that took place under his ministry there and Dozens and dozens and dozens of people came to genuine conversion many of whom were

Was so remarkable that the entire city was in shock when they saw the conversions of these people and and he tells some of those stories in the book chains of grace and The neat thing about it is it's not a book that exalts

Peter. It's a book that exalts God and demonstrates the power of God to change people's lives and the power of the gospel and so and I'm hoping it'll just be an encouragement to the pastors and and urge them on to continue the good work of preparing sermons and Visiting people, you know, just like what

Peter did with your mom That's the kind of thing that the pastors need to be doing there are so many pastors today that They'll they'll bury themselves in their studies and never go amongst their people never go out and spend time with them

We'll never go and visit them. I mean, I know of pastors who wouldn't even go visit for somebody in the hospital and It was in their mind was not something

God had called them to do you know, we're not called to hold the hands of old people that would that's what they would say and And it's it's tragic that men have

I don't know who's teaching these men. I can't imagine that the seminaries are telling men that this is how they're to be pastoring but but tragically they've many men have lost sight of what they're called to do with the gospel and They obviously weren't imitating

Robert Murray McShane with that kind of attitude No, no nor any of the the gifted men that God has used down through the ages like Ichabod Spencer who would spend the first third of his day in his study on his knees and study and Preparing the sermons and then at the set the next third of the day was spent out amongst the people either in part of that was his systematic visitation of every single member of his church at least two times a year and As the church grew in size quite significantly to be one of the largest churches in New York he never wavered from that commitment and but he in addition to visiting his own people was always going out amongst sinners and Seeking to engage them in conversations and and then the last third of his day was of course spent in his back in his study again

Writing down verbatim every conversation he had had that day with sinners and Kept those journals and it's at the end of his life.

That's what ended up becoming pastor sketches and aren't people really robbing themselves of such a wealth of knowledge and inspiration and edification and encouragement and wisdom

When they have this ridiculous notion that these dead white guys

From the past are not going to be able to speak to our current day and and that our day of modern technology and in our day when there are just Sins have crept into the lives and homes of people in ways that they never did before like internet pornography and just all kinds of things that were not

In existence even some some of these things not even a decade or more ago

But but today they think that that none of these men from the past are going to be able to speak a word to them

In the current situation of life and that's ridiculous, isn't it? Well, it is because obviously the scriptures themselves, right?

We're written 2 ,000 years ago at the most recent and yet we know by going you go back to the book of Proverbs and read the opening nine chapters and I can remember when the

Lord first saved me and I would take my Bible To work with me and I was working during the summers in the highway department in the

Babylon town there in Long Island And I would read just read a section of Proverbs the early chapters

Which would speak about the young man being led before a harlot and and I would ask them.

I said when do you think this was written and Invariably their response would be well could have been written today and I would tell them.

Yeah, I could have been but it was written 3 ,000 years ago and they were blown away.

I said, yeah, it was written by Solomon 3 ,000 years ago And it's it's it's showing us very clearly that the heart of man hasn't changed

It certainly hasn't improved and that's one of the dangers of evolution and the evolutionary

Thought is that that man is getting better and better and better. And of course we are seeing that Man develops and is able to to advance in knowledge because if you accumulated knowledge through the centuries and therefore is able to Advance in in technology and things of this nature, but the heart has never changed

All we know all we have now is more advanced ways of destroying one another Both inside and out

We have to go to a break right now If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for my k -dosh regarding solid ground

Christian books Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris

Arnzen at gmail .com Don't go away. We will be right back after these messages attention coin collectors and investors

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Welcome back This is Chris Arns and before I return to our discussion I just want to announce that the faithful shepherd pastors retreat is being held

May 9th through the 11th at Harvey Cedars conference center on the Jersey Shore and the speakers are

Dan Doriani and David Powelson both of whom have been guests in the past on iron sharpens iron radio and If you would like more details about the faithful shepherd pastors retreat go to the website of the

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals Which is Alliance net dot o -r -g Alliance net dot o -r -g.

I also want to remind all pastors and men in leadership either if you live in the

Carlisle, Pennsylvania Area or if you're willing to travel there or if you know of a man in leadership

Who is either from this area or willing to travel here? We are having the iron sharpens iron

Pastors luncheon for men in leadership. This is restricted to men in leadership

We are not inviting to this event Women who are in the office of pastor.

This is strictly for men and It's going to be held Thursday April 28th

From 11 a .m. To 3 p .m. At the beautifully restored and renovated and historic thorn -walled mansion in Carlisle, Pennsylvania and Delighted that what are you giggling about?

You better mention? It's it's the thorn -walled manor not imagine not That's what I said.

Yeah, I'm just because there was a question that came up about somebody thought it was the nursing home, right? It's not in the nursing.

Oh, there's a difference. There's a mansion and it is quite a historic mansion was erected in the early 1900s and apparently

The society's elite and and national politicians were entertained lavishly in this mansion and unfortunately burned nearly to the ground and was restored and renovated to its original beauty and I'm delighted to be

One of the first people in fact, I am the first person to have a Christian event at this smoking

Yeah, there have been weddings and things like that there but there's never been a Christian event according to the current owner at least as far as long as she is on it and This is absolutely free of charge.

David would of answering muslims .com is the guest speaker? Pennsylvania State representative

Stephen Bloom who is a unwavering Christian committed to the gospel of Jesus Christ and unashamed of it he is going to be giving a word to the men in attendance as well and Each pastor or man in leadership that attends is going to leave with a sack of books that may give him a hernia

When he is leaving the building because the because of the generosity of publishers all the

United States donating books for the men including Solid grand

Christian books that we are discussing right now But if you would like to join us that day you better RSVP very soon before we run out of room

And have others that you think may be interested in joining us email me at Chris Ornson at gmail .com

Chris Ornson at gmail .com now Mike we are returning to our discussion on solid grand

Christian books And I know that Mother's Day and Father's Day obviously are coming up Do you have anything in particular that you want to highlight for people looking for the perfect gift for?

Their moms or dads or people who are moms and dads? Yeah, we have we have several things that would be

Valuable for me starting off with moms first. We we actually have a few titles that we have done

That are for specifically for mothers One of them is called mothers of the wise and good anecdotes and essays on the incredible influence of mothers throughout church history and Susan Hunt a

Godly woman who's written many very helpful books has Said about this book this book answers the very questions that today's women are asking the engaging anecdotes instructive essays are wonderful I have looked for a book like this for many years every mother grandmother and spiritual mother in other words every woman

Will find great help and hope in this book The book itself is is a unique little book and that it what he what what?

What Jabez Jabez Burns did is he went in and gathered information about?

Just a variety of people and told the stories of their of their relationship with their mother and the influence of the mother

Upon them beginning with of course Monica and st. Augustine Yeah, the mother of Alfred the

Great Sir Isaac Newton's mother Dr. Samuel Johnson and his mother Jonathan Edwards and his mother mrs.

Wesley and her children John Newton and his mother you may know that John Newton's mother died when he was but a young lad of about five or six

I believe and He turned his back on God and became just a degenerate a person in fact

John Newton had become so wicked that sailors who sailors were embarrassed by his his language and Newton was known for taking the great hymns of the church and Putting vile words to them and singing them and causing

The sailors to become anxious about their their safety in the boat

And at times when storms came up they even thought that he was the reason for the storm because of his wickedness but Newton said that he never forgot and And many times what would keep him from going even further astray was

He literally could feel at times the impress of his mother's hand upon his head as she would pray over him

As a young boy and even though she died it said such a young age for him God used her to ultimately bring him back and tells the story of George Washington and his mother

Timothy Dwight Lay Richmond and many many more as well as then striking incidents from the lives of men like Philip Henry Just incredible stories of the the prayers of a mother the power of a mother's love

And then there are selected essays on motherhood the dignity of mothers Qualifications essential to maternal duties the mother's charge a mother's privilege maternal piety

It's just a powerful book it has poetry it has anecdotes many of the many of the

Examples that are there are very brief It's the kind of thing that a woman could pick up and just read it's only some of them are a page long

Others are even shorter than that It's only the essays at the back that are a little bit longer, but it's just a delightful delightful book mothers of the wise and good

There's another book called the mother at home Raising your children in the fear of the

Lord by John Abbott, which is a very popular book. It's It's been

Reprinted many many times and we're very thankful that we have it as part of a trilogy We have the mother at home by Abbott the child at home and then the family at home as well

And then a third book is called my mother It was a book very very difficult for me to find

Oddly enough you know God God actually brought I Had most difficult time finding this book, and I don't remember

I think I might have gotten the copy that I found in Australia and it is it is just a wonderful book a recollection of maternal influence by a

Congregational minister named John Mitchell and The story of his mother's godliness is just wonderful.

I dedicated the book to my mom Years ago, and when she was still alive, and I've just always loved there's something about that title

My mother that just always drew me and and I I'd want I'd seen it advertised in these old books

I don't know if you if you look at these old books at the back of these old books many times They'll have 16 pages of Advertisements of other books by this publisher

Sometimes even as many as 32 pages And and and I would see this book my mother all the time

But I never could find a copy and then as I said finally one day I was searching on a used -book site

And I found a copy somewhere in Australia and got my hands on it read it and then and reproduced it

So those three books are all invaluable books that I would recommend For Mother's Day, I will wait on the

Father's Day for when we get a little bit closer to to June Because I know you'll have me back again.

Won't you Chris? The truth be told

I'm usually his fallback person Mike can you jump aboard and I resist

Chris. He's just such a precious guy and and when buzz is thrown in as a bonus. I mean, you know, it's like Well, I should be paying you to do this

Yes, actually you are paying and the thing is very much for sponsoring our interpreters iron and I Think that you may be in your your confidence of being back in June to promote

Father's Day books You may be guilty of the what the Roman Catholics call the sin of presumption Well, do you think you'll have a bunch of new books by then

I mean how often are you coming up with new books? Well the new books that I'm working on right now I am working on the book course the book by Ron Gleeson.

I mentioned Tony Meano this book Rock of Ages Those are the most

Those are the ones that are at the top of the list I also have a book that I'm working on that is the sermons of Gilbert Tenet and Actually, you know

Tenet would have minister was ministering in the New Jersey, Pennsylvania area there Chris and was one of the

Tenet brothers they were involved in what was the founding of Princeton later on became Princeton it was the log college originally and And there's a man from up in Massachusetts Steve Graham a pastor in Chicopee, Mass as a man in his church who located a early copy of These sermons that are that are very difficult to find very very difficult to find they're not available anywhere and this man transcribed them and and then and printed them and Sent them to me and I've been working on trying to put this together in a volume of the sermons of Gilbert Tenet and And that I'm hoping that will be out sometime this summer as well

I have other things that are that are kind of Percolating as well, you know that may be coming out, but when you're talking about all these older books

I'm still waiting to hear some names that I recognize That's all I mean This is amazing the people you're finding because I've like I said

I've never heard of them and yet you're talking about these great works that have passed away. It's amazing

Yeah, the the book that one of the books that I wanted to mention feature today

Is by James Buchanan James Buchanan was a great Scottish pastor and preacher and theologian and he lived from 1804 to 1870 and Buchanan is best known for his book on the doctrine of justification

And you may you may have heard of the publisher of that book It's actually solid ground

That was a book that I published several years ago and It's it's a classic work.

In fact, it's one of the classic works on justification and for some reason it's been lying around unpublished for about 30 years and I finally decided to go ahead and do it and Joel Beakey found someone to write a new introduction to it including

Which addressed such things as the the modern -day? the modern -day issue of the the new perspective on Paul and things that of course wouldn't have been addressed by by Buchanan because it didn't exist at that time, but James Buchanan also wrote a book entitled the office and work of the

Holy Spirit and It is just a marvelous marvelous book

Sinclair Ferguson wrote a beautiful commendation as did dr.

Joel Beakey and I'm just so excited about this book. It is divided into three parts the spirits work in conversion

That's part one part two is is a particularly Fascinating part for me and a part that I really love it's entitled illustrative cases.

He has nine chapters He has it on the Philippian jailer the dying malefactor

Paul the Ethiopian treasurer Cornelius Lydia Timothy conversions at Pentecost and then revivals and then he concludes of the book with four chapters

On the spirits work in the edification of his people after their conversion The spirits work at the spirit of holiness the spirits work as the spirit of adoption the spirits work as the spirit of prayer and the

Spirits work as the comforter and Buchanan is just a just a powerful powerful writer and I would like to Would it be okay if I read?

Oh, yeah, definitely opening section of his The first chapter is entitled the necessity of a great

Spiritual change and he begins with a very long but very very powerful sentence

He says we have a very solemn statement on this subject from the lips of one whose personal character as Well as his official authority may well impress our mind with a conviction of its certain and infallible truth

It comes from the lips of Jesus that same Jesus who is the

Savior the only Savior of sinners who pitied us in our lost estate and entered into a covenant with God on our behalf and engaged in his own person to render the price of our redemption and he left the throne of heaven and appeared as a man on earth a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief and Became obedient unto death even the death of the cross that same

Jesus who afterwards Ascended up into heaven and sat down with his father on his throne to whom all power is given in heaven and on earth

Who as Mediatorial King is now carrying on the administration of the scheme of grace and will err long come in the clouds of heaven to judge

The quick and the dead that same Jesus declares and that too with the solemnity of a most emphatic a separation

Verily verily I say unto thee except a man be born again or born from above he cannot enter into the kingdom of God and Can we contemplate the character of him who speaks and his official authority

Whether as the Savior or as the judge of men Can we consider his love for our souls and his earnest desire for their salvation?

His perfect knowledge of the plan of grace and of every provision which it contains and his divine commission to declare the will of God and to decide the case of every soul at the last day without feeling that the very

Benevolence of his character and his almighty power as a Savior in part a tremendous force to his words

When he that is true he that hath the key of David he that openeth and no man shutteth and shutteth and no man openeth declares that the door of heaven is barred against every

Unregenerate man and that notwithstanding all that he suffered on the cross He will himself decide when he takes his seat on the throne that except a man be born again

He cannot see the kingdom of God Amen, that's how he opens the chapter on the necessity of the great spiritual change and he goes on and Just does a masterful job of logically laying out the case for the necessity of the new birth

He then deals after after that powerful chapter He then moves to a general view of the agency of the

Spirit and then a general view of the process of a sinner as sinners conversion and he just Beautifully works his way through the the work of the

Spirit in enlightening the mind again every chapter the work of the

Spirit in convincing the conscience and You see the the powerful

Evidence that he brings to page after page from the scriptures and then finally the the chapter 6 the work of the

Spirit in renewing the heart enlightening the mind convincing the conscience and finally in renewing the mind and then he

Looks at the after the renewing of the heart. He then looks of course the next logical step, which is the result of the

Spirit's work in conversion and How can we tell whether a person is genuinely converted converted?

and of course that is the great challenge the great challenge is you know, you must be born again and and Sadly in our day people are claiming to be born again and yet their lives have never been changed

They've never been transformed and thus we can have born -again homosexuals who continue to practice homosexuality we can almost assume that someday we're going to have the born -again adulterers

Club and people rejoicing in their adultery and continuing in adultery and Yet claiming to be born again.

And yet our our Lord and the Apostle Paul says That that these people are being deceived he describes those who were

Who were homosexuals who were effeminate, but he says but you were washed you were changed you were transformed you were justified you were sanctified and we must not be deceived the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God and so you have that, you know, it's just a powerful powerful book that That Buchanan gives and laying out that first section the first Third of the book on the whole necessity of change and how the

Spirit of God works But then going and giving the illustrative examples expounding those

Great stories of conversion the story of the Apostle Paul and and Lydia and and just the incredible incredible pictures there, you know,

I've always loved x16 how you have in that one chapter you have the

First of all, you of course begin with the Macedonian vision that that takes place when suddenly

Luke becomes part of the story and And he speaks in we that's no longer they it's we and And there's that beautiful picture of the

Macedonian call where he says come over and help us the most generic of terms the word help is a very general term and And we are told that that the

Apostles Concluded that God was calling them to preach the gospel to them

What a great message that is to us today help people What's the greatest help that we can bring to people we preach the gospel to them?

That's why I love Tony Miano and the guys that are that are out doing the street preaching. They're preaching the gospel

That's the that's the greatest good that we can do is preaching the gospel whether it's at an abortion clinic

Or it's at a street corner or on a college campus wherever we are just preaching the gospel and And I think you see the conversion of Lydia Which is is the most picturesque scene of by the by the by the waters there in a

In a calm setting where it says that she was listening and and God opened her heart to receive the things that were being preached by Paul and then then we have the story of the

Demoniac girl and how the Lord delivered her from the demon possession And and of course as a result of that Paul was beaten and thrown into prison and then we have this incredibly dramatic scene of the conversion of the

Philippian jailer with the earthquake and and His trying to take his own life and and how the

Apostle Paul steps in and he cries What must I do to be saved believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? He'll be saved you in your household and and he and his household believed and were baptized that evening

And so you have those three conversions very different conversions very much a picture of the power of the gospel and Convincing us and and proving that the conclusion that they came to when they saw the

Macedonian vision come over and help us That the preaching of the gospel was the greatest help that they could give to them

I definitely want to have you address a book that includes a

Chapter at least a chapter by one of my co -hosts heroes.

I want to really pique his interest now here the late Dr. Greg Bonson.

I know that you've published a work called the risen Christ conquers Mars Hill Yes, and dr.

Greg Bonson is one of the contributors to that Yeah, I don't know if it is it's is it still

Grammatically correct. Let's call someone the late when they went home to be with the Lord in 1995

Oh, yeah, I think that would be still appropriate, but he's considered as you know by many to be the greatest apologist of the 20th century and if you could tell us something about The risen

Christ conquers Mars Hill Yeah, that's a that's a book that I don't know

I can't remember what it was that brought brought to my mind doing that book it's supposed to be the first in a series of books and and I haven't given up the

Possibility of having it be the first of a series. I have other titles that I've come up with that.

I think would be useful Unfortunately, that book has not been it's not done quite as well as I'd hoped it would it's it's it's a book that that takes a 12 men from Back as early as the

Puritan era the first one being Thomas Manton the last person being Greg Bonson and and it it looks at Acts chapter 17 and the ministry of the

Apostle Paul on Mars Hill That's why the title of the book is the risen

Christ conquers Mars Hill We have Thomas Manton's exposition a sermon on Acts 17

We have Thomas Watson the day of judgment asserted another sermon

We have Jonathan Edwards the final judgment or the world judged righteously by Jesus Christ Which is again a sermon on that text

Samuel Davies the universal judgment John Dick Paul in Athens from lectures on the

Acts of the Apostles, which is a book that I've published as well James Thornwell the necessity and nature of Christianity John Edie Paul at Athens Paul the preacher from chapter 10

JC Ryle Athens from the upper room BB Warfield false religions and the true from biblical theological studies

Ned Stonehouse the Areopagus address from the Tyndale New Testament lectures Cornelius Van Til Paul at Athens a booklet and then finally

Greg Bonson the encounter of Jerusalem with Athens from always ready it's a 420 page paperback and It's really a masterful book.

That's called I'm sorry. What is the title of the book? It's the risen Christ conquers

Mars Hill. Okay when you say it You were disappointed you're speaking about the sales about it.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah It's just that it's just that Unfortunately in our day and age where I'm finding more and more that people want ebooks and and I don't

Have the ability to be able to do something like this in ebooks because I have that What I had to do is I had to take these

The amount of work that would have been necessary to be able to take and redo these in a way that could be used on Ebook, I just don't have either the time nor the money to be able to invest in that So what

I have to do is literally take these take these 12 chapters from existing material and I have to then repaginate it and Read, you know put new headers on it and then send it to the to my printer and it's put together as as one book

And it's you know, it came out very nice. I'm very thankful for the way to come out I'm just all

I'm saying is that it hasn't had quite the The I haven't had the response to it that I had hoped

Well, we'll try to we'll try to change that the best we can and we're out of time actually brother And I know I know that your website is solid dash ground dash books calm.

Yes solid dash ground dash books calm Thank you so much Mike a dash for being on the program and thank you for sponsoring iron sharpens iron

So faithfully we look forward to you returning to the program Thank You Reverend buzz for being my co -host.

I want to thank all of you listened I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater