WWUTT 1375 Q&A Women Leading a Class Discussion, Ministering With a Guilty Conscience, Is Jezebel a Racial Slur

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Can a woman lead a discussion in a mixed Bible study? If a man has a guilty conscience, should he be a pastor?

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And is Jezebel a racial slur? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

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This is When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible study in the word of Christ, who was raised from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God.

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Let all your friends know about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Becky. Yes. Two weeks in a row. Two weeks, everybody. Good to have you.

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Yeah, good to be here. Hey, we wanna give a shout out to a friend of ours for a wonderful gift that he sent to us.

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Oh, yes. Our friend Scott, who's been listening to the program for a long time, loves the What Videos, loves the podcast.

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He knew about our move down to Texas and has lived here in Texas for a time. So he sent us this wonderful custom -made doormat.

01:08

So cool. Can you remember everything that says on it? Welcome to the Hughes home or something like that.

01:13

And it says Texas with - Lindale, Texas. Yeah, Lindale, Texas. And the Texas has like the state.

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That's home. That's the O in home. That's right. Yes. And then it says, what?

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It's got - No, when we understand the text. When we understand the text with what, W -W -U -T -T in parentheses.

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Yeah, it's so cool. And it's red, it's a great color. Yep. It's like a maroon color. It'll match our front door.

01:40

It's awesome. So we've got this - Love it. We've got this new house that we're moving into in two weeks. Everything goes well.

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Lord willing. That's right. Lord willing. Yes. We close in two weeks and we've already got this wonderful gift from Scott.

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We're ready to lay down right there on the stoop. Yep. I'm so excited. Thank you so much, Scott. We sure appreciate that.

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We do. Thank you. Well, on the Friday edition of the broadcast, we answer questions from the listeners and you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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This first question is actually one we're coming back to from last week. Right. JC says, we watch a video series each

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Wednesday night at our church. It comes with a discussion booklet. Is it unbiblical for a woman to lead the discussion with men in attendance?

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Now, I took this because I lack reading skills, apparently. I took this to mean -

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Yeah. I thought maybe something was missing from the question. And so what I was seeing in the question that wasn't actually there is that they were using a teaching series that was led by a woman.

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And so is that okay? And then, of course, the way we answered that question, which you were just following my lead. I think

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I was prepared to answer both ways. Yeah. And one way would be if the video had the lady teaching the class -

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Right. On the video. And then the other way was leading the discussion after the video.

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But I don't think we ever got back to the discussion - That's right. Doing the discussion.

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We didn't circle back. We didn't circle back. We didn't circle back to - We just moved on. That's right. Well, with half an hour, we're kind of like, you know, got to keep moving.

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Watch this. Somebody's going to make that the word of the year at the end of 2021. It's going to be circle back. Circle back. Yeah. That's everything now.

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So is it unbiblical for a woman to lead the discussion with men in attendance? So we answered the question last week based on if you're watching a woman teaching in the video series -

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Right. Apparently that's not what's going on. It's after the teaching and the video is over, there's then discussion among the class and a woman is leading it.

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Well, I would still say it's the same sort of a thing there. Yeah, why aren't the men stepping up?

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Exactly. And even in this particular instance, you're not talking about a person that necessarily has expertise.

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Right. They're just leading the discussion. So in a mixed group, men and women, why is a man not leading the discussion of the group rather than a woman doing it?

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Well, I mean, a lot of women are in positions of authority where they can manage -

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Like organizing the class. Organizing the class, keeping the discussion moving. I mean, we get hung up on feelings a lot.

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You know, we just kind of let, because we know that the other person needs to let it out, you know, just let it out. So it depends on the personality of the lady as to whether or not she's going to give that time to that part of it.

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Yes. But a man really does a really good job of, okay, we're not talking about that now, but doing it in a way that's not harsh, you know what

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I mean? And just keeping the conversation going and moving along and, you know, helping that even -

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Staying focused. Staying focused, yeah, because I mean - Not being as emotionally driven. Right, emotions just take you everywhere.

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So I'm just saying. Yeah. I mean, really, even as a matter of a question of conscience because JC, you're asking this question because there's something in your conscience here that's wondering if this is okay.

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So just for the sake of conscience, there might be some sort of dynamic of the class that I'm not aware of just based on your question.

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My response would simply be why is a woman leading that and not a man? Right. I mean, that's what it boils down to.

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Right. I mean, qualifications of a man to lead a discussion are there?

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Yeah. Oh, qualifications for a man to lead a discussion? Yeah. Well, the way that I've taught on 1

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Timothy 3 is although a pastor has to meet these qualifications in order to be a pastor, there are qualifications that all of us should be aspiring toward.

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So I would hope that even a person who's leading a discussion in a class is meeting those qualifications.

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Okay. It's not that they're being put to the test necessarily to the same degree that a pastor is gonna have to be rigorously tested before being put in that particular position.

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So they're not really teaching the class, they're just leading the discussion. Yeah, they're just leading a discussion. So they won't have to have the ability to teach.

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That's 1 Timothy 3, verse two. An overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober -minded, self -controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.

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And so the person who's leading a discussion in a class doesn't have to be able to teach. It could be a deacon, one of the deacons of the church, which a deacon doesn't have to have that ability to teach.

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These qualifications that we have for pastors, any Christian should want to be this way.

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Right. So when you look at a pastor, you're seeing a picture of a mature Christian, a mature believer in Christ.

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And so everybody in the church, man or woman should look at that guy and wanna go, I want to aspire to have that kind of maturity in the

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Lord. Right. That's the kind of an example a pastor is supposed to set. So then likewise, when you're talking about somebody leading a discussion in the class,

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I would hope they're at least covering the basics of the things here that are listed in 1 Timothy 3. Right. You know what

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I mean? Yeah. But that doesn't mean that the person in the class has to be a man. I still would put forward to the question, why isn't it a man?

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Why is a woman leading that discussion and not a man? So yeah, I mean, kind of move the class in that direction.

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I follow that, yeah. I can't think of anything else. I can't either. Let me finish. So it's not necessarily wrong.

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It's not unbiblical, sorry, tongue tied. Unbiblical, unbiblical.

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Yes, that word. It's not unbiblical, but it's just that in order to build up the body, it would be best if a man was put in that position.

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Yeah, and especially when you're talking about this as a matter of conscience. If there's somebody there that's uncomfortable with the fact that the woman's in that position and they're starting to ask questions of, wait a minute, are we going against what

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Scripture says about a woman not having authority over a man? First Timothy 2, 12.

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Is she leading the discussion in this class? Is that therefore compromising the instruction that we have there?

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So for the sake of somebody's conscience, then you probably should think twice about putting a woman in that position.

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Even if you could argue it scripturally that no, this isn't, she's not preaching. Right. She's not even leading a prayer.

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Right, not teaching. Right. So it simply is a matter of conscience. We've been talking about conscience issues in Romans 14 this past week.

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Don't put a stumbling block before a brother. Nobody's gonna be uncomfortable with a man being in that position.

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But if there's gonna be questions of whether or not a woman should be there, then you should go ahead and appoint a man to that spot.

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Right. Okay, next one. This one comes from Steven in Tennessee. Hey, Pastor Gabe, I had a question on being disqualified from ministry.

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Long story short, my wife and I were sexually impure before we were married.

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So they consummated the marriage before they were married. Put it that way. This happened while I was on ministry staff at a church.

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With those actions, I feel that I have disqualified myself from ministry. Since then, I've felt like a rudderless ship as I wasn't faithful to the call

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God had for me. My wife and others have tried to tell me to get back in ministry, but I feel like I can't as I truly feel like I am disqualified.

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My question, is this true conviction and I am no longer qualified for ministry or is this me still dealing with guilt over my sin?

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Thank you, Steven. Well, I appreciate your question, Steven. Here's gonna be my immediate answer to that.

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And then we're gonna come back to 1 Timothy 3 again. If you feel guilty and you feel like you are unqualified for ministry, then you are unqualified for ministry.

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Agreed. So just think about what we've read this past week in Romans chapter 14. It says in verse five, each person should be fully convinced in his own mind.

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So if you're feeling convicted and like you have sinned that disqualifies you from ministry, you should not, even at the advice of other people, they're trying to tell you to get back into ministry, you should not get into ministry if your conscience is there.

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So consider, let's come back to 1 Timothy 3 again. 1 Timothy 3, one, the saying is trustworthy.

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If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

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Right now, I would say because of the guilt that you feel in your conscience, you are not qualified for that.

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You don't desire that noble task and you're not aspiring to that position.

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So therefore, just because other people tell you that you can do it and that you're worried or concerned over something in your past that's illegitimate, if your conscience is telling you, if the spirit of God is convicting your heart not to get into ministry, then don't do it.

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Consider also what Paul said in 1 Timothy chapter one, verse five.

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So this is at the start of the letter now here. He's telling Timothy what our aim is, what our charge is as teachers of the word of Christ.

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He says in 1 Timothy 1, five, the aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

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Right. Now your faith, it sounds to me, Stephen, like your faith is sincere.

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I don't think that you would feel this conviction if there was not a sincere faith that you had there.

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But it's clear that you have a guilty conscience and by your guilty conscience, you're concerned even about the purity of your heart.

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So there's two things there that as the charge of an elder must be in his motivations for preaching the gospel of Christ and shepherding the people of God, your heart is guilty, your conscience is guilty, your faith is sincere, but there's not enough for you there to be able to say that I can pastor in a way that would not compromise the sincerity of the message that I'm preaching.

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Right. You would probably feel guilty every Sunday. Like there wouldn't be a Sunday that would go by where you're delivering a sermon and not feeling guilty like a hypocrite over what you've just said.

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Yeah, there's also so much trials and tribulations that pastors go through that nobody,

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I can't say nobody, but a lot of people, I just say the vast majority don't go through just because they are in charge of delivering that message.

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And so if you are already weak standing, then it's gonna crumble you.

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Right. It'll be tough. That's right, yeah. So you can't stand as firm as if you didn't, as if you had all of those qualifications.

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Yeah, the love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

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So you come back again to 3 .1, the saying is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

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Reading verse two again, therefore an overseer must be above reproach. And there are other people in your life who think of you as that way, but you don't.

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Right. And you know your heart better than they do. Right. You must be the husband of one wife. You must be sober minded, self -controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach.

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Verse three, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

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He must manage his own household well with all dignity, keeping his children submissive.

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For if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.

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Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders so that he may not fall into disgrace into a snare of the devil.

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And if you are serving as a pastor and you're constantly thinking about somebody's gonna find me out, somebody's gonna discover that I'm a fraud.

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Then that last one doesn't, you don't qualify under that last one either.

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He must be well thought of by outsiders so that he may not fall into disgrace into a snare of the devil.

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Now I'll tell you this about these instructions, these qualifications we have here in First Timothy three, one through seven.

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This is a present reality. So it's like, what can be said about this pastor in the present or this man in the present?

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Before doesn't, as long as you are completely forgiven, and I can't think of the words.

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Whatever you may have done before you became a Christian, I don't wanna say that there's nothing you could have done before you became a

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Christian that would unqualify you as a pastor. Yeah, that's not accurate. I'm not gonna take it that far. I can think of things that probably would, but we're not gonna go into that.

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Right, that would take too long. Right, but nevertheless, when

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I have considered a man for ministry, whether he's aspiring to the position of deacon or elder, if he tells me there are things in his past, he's just being transparent.

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He's not saying, I can't do this because of this. And if he's saying that he has a guilty conscience and he can't do it, well, then that's it.

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I mean, you have a guilty conscience, so I'm not gonna continue to push you into this. But if he's just being transparent and he's telling me, hey,

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I want you to know that when I was 19 years old, I did this and I went to jail for it. It's something like that.

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If it's something that was before he became a

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Christian, then it doesn't matter to me, given the sin, but it just doesn't matter to me.

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Because it's like, of course you did stuff like that. You were a lost, depraved sinner. All of us were. And we're right. Following the passions of your flesh, you had no conviction of the

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Holy Spirit at that time. So of course you did something like that. I wouldn't think that that would be a disqualifying thing that you're no longer fit to be pastor because that thing you did when you were 19 years old.

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We all did stupid things when we were in our sins. Now, there are people who, while they were in ministry, did things that I would say, now you're disqualified from ministry.

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And we've talked about that before. A man who's a pastor who commits adultery has disqualified himself.

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He is no longer above reproach, as it says there in verse two.

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And now you say, Stephen, you say that you did this, you were in ministry and you were sexually impure before you got married.

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This happened while I was on ministry staff at a church. Now, the extent of that,

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I'm not, I really can't speak into. I hope that you would receive counsel from your elders and things like that.

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That's what I was gonna suggest too, yeah. I don't know to what extent you're talking about there, like what you did when you were in ministry.

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I will say that Becky and I, when we were dating, we did not consummate our marriage until our wedding night.

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But there was still occasions when we were seeing each other where we had to put the brakes on because spending too much time alone, we can't trust ourselves.

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And we both felt guilty about that. And that was when I was in ministry, but I wasn't a pastor yet.

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I was working at a Christian radio station at the time. So to what extent you're saying we were in ministry, you said

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I was on ministry staff at a church, but what does that mean? So again, that has to be something that you talk about with your elders.

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I still wanna impress upon you that as long as you feel guilty about this. Don't do it. Yeah, and I have,

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I especially have no authority to be sitting over here on this side going, it looks good to me. I don't know what you're complaining about.

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Details. You can't really discuss the details because it's not a conversation.

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We don't know you personally. So it's really tough to give like an A -okay, like you're just fine, get over it kind of thing if we don't know.

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So yeah, talk to the pastor. Talk, yeah, get some good counsel. Right.

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Good counsel. And if you - And I'd say a lot of different people, not like a lot, a lot, but more than one. Yeah, the people who know you best is gonna give you the best counsel.

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Right. But I mean, the people that are telling him to get into ministry. Yeah, I know, you gotta be careful about that too.

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So still must be with the word of God and prayer and receiving wisdom from many counselors.

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And I'd say if they say that it's fine and you start to pursue it, but then you still feel guilty or more guilty as you keep going,

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I'd say then it's not okay. Right. So just pray about it. Yeah, now

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I know, I'm gonna be very careful with what I'm gonna say here. I know that your wife loves you.

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I know that she would really like to see you become a pastor. Seems to be what you're indicating here based on the question that you've asked.

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But part of your not going into ministry because you have a guilty conscience may also make her feel guilty.

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True. And that could be one of the reasons. I'm not gonna try to look into her heart. I'm just giving you kind of a maybe.

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A maybe, yeah. It could be one of the reasons why she would push you into this because then if you were to step into ministry, it would solve a lot of...

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Alleviate. Right, alleviate. Alleviate. Yeah, that's the word you're looking for. Some of the guilt she might feel. So as you're seeking counsel in this, you may wanna include her in that as well.

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And y 'all have the discussion about, sweetheart, maybe you're feeling guilty also about some of the things that we did while I was in ministry and before we got married.

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Right. So yeah, that has to be as you're thinking about leading your wife also in the midst of all of this, consider that.

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Right. Let's go to this next question. This comes from Emery. That's a great name. Pastor Gabe, I appreciated your article responding to the

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Kamala Harris Jezebel controversy. Please extend my thanks to Tom Buck for saying what he said.

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I have to say though, I was a bit disappointed that you did not address in your article how the use of Jezebel is not a racial slur.

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Weeks later, this accusation is still going around. Anthony Bradley just said today on Twitter that it's a well -known fact that Jezebel is a racial slur.

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Is it possible for you to write a follow -up article or you could do a what video on this subject?

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Thanks for what you do. Yeah, I did see that. Anthony Bradley said it's a racial slur. The Baptist News Global has done at least three articles on it now.

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Yeah, there's a lot of people saying it's a racial slur. If not more because the BNG just can't seem to let this go.

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J .D. Greer, president of the Southern Baptist Convention said it's a racially loaded term to call a woman

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Jezebel or compare her to Jezebel. Now I grew up in the South. We just moved back to the

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South. We're now in Texas. Well, you moved back. I moved too. Well, yes, that's true. Becky's never lived outside of Kansas before.

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Nope. This is her first time. This is new. I grew up in South Carolina. We now live in Texas.

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I have never heard Jezebel used as a racial slur. In fact, when I was growing up as a kid, what

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I heard was moms rebuking their daughters and saying, don't be a

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Jezebel. I heard that. That's not a racial slur. That's across the board.

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Right, that's mom whapping you upside the head. And telling you to correct your behavior. That's what that means.

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That's where I heard that in my Southern context. So no, this is not a well -known racial slur. If it exists as a racial slur, that does not change the biblical context in which

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Pastor Tom clearly framed the tweet that he made. And I want to remind you again what he said so that you clearly hear the context.

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This was on January 22nd. So it was two weeks ago from today. He said, I can't imagine any truly

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God -fearing Israelite who would have wanted their daughters to view Jezebel as an inspirational role model because she was a woman in power.

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Now, he doesn't even mention Kamala Harris there. But there were people that connected the dots and knew what it was that he was talking about.

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And so they say he called Kamala Harris Jezebel. He did not. Did not call her

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Jezebel. They're trying to quote him. I know. Without quoting. And one article after the next that I've seen on this has been saying he called her

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Jezebel. He said that he didn't call her Jezebel. And there's other thinking people, rational people, that have recognized that.

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R .C. Sproul, Jr., by the way, and he had one of the best responses to this. Oh, did he? He said, is anybody going to point out to these folks that Tom did not call her

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Jezebel? And he said, in the book of James, when James says that you believe that God is one, good, even the demons believe that, and shudder,

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James is not calling people demons. Right. So in the same way, Tom was not calling Kamala Harris Jezebel.

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And it most especially, and you can hear in that tweet, in that context, he's talking about a biblical context there, there was no racial slur.

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Right. So why did I not address that in my article? Why haven't I talked about that? Because I didn't need to.

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There's not a reason to have to even address that. I did say that there were people that were calling

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Tom a racist misogynist because of his comment, and then I even highlighted a few comments where people said that sort of a thing.

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But I did not need to correct their usage of Jezebel as a racial slur, because in my article,

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I framed it the way that Tom did. He was drawing straight from Scripture, as I was drawing straight from Scripture.

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Where is our foundation? Where do we start? Scripture. We do not start with some sort of a myth or cultural reference 70 or 80 years, that emerged in the culture 70 or 80 years ago.

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Right, because then you'll just be arguing until you're blue in the face and not make a difference.

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But if you go back to the Bible and start there, then you've made your point. Now, somebody can use

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Jezebel as a racial slur. Maybe that is the way they intended it. But you can definitely tell that's not the way

25:05

Tom intended it. Right. And it's not the way that most people I've heard use the term intended.

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And again, I've never heard it used as a racial slur. It is not common knowledge that in the South, Jezebel is used as a racial slur.

25:20

Until now, apparently. It's racist because you want it to be racist. Right.

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You're reading into it. Exactly. It says more about the people who are making that accusation than it actually says about Tom.

25:32

Tom's character is blemishless in this whole thing. And he has been nothing but a gentleman in all of his responses.

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He talked about it with us, with our church, at our business meeting this past Sunday. Our church loves

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Pastor Tom. And the representation that he is for our body and the care that he has for this flock and this people that we know the word of God and we are raised up in Christ.

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He's not standing at the pulpit making incendiary comments every single Sunday. Although that's the perspective that people might have because of the way that this whole

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Jezebel controversy has been framed. But this is a man who loves the people of God. He loves the word of God.

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Yes. And he knows that we grow in maturity and in sanctification to be made more like Christ when we sit under the authority of that word.

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And he preaches it word for word, verse for verse, line by line, page by page, chapter, books at a time.

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We came in right on the tail end of his series in Exodus. Yes. And right now we're going through the

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Sermon on the Mount. So I love this man's preaching. I love, he talks about a role model here.

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I love him as a role model. I wanna be a pastor like Pastor Tom.

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And so appreciate this guy. And I hate to see the things that have been happening to him. But hey, we know that we're gonna be attacked because we speak the truth in this world.

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And as Jesus said in Matthew chapter five, which we're getting into pretty soon, because as I said, we're going through the

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Sermon on the Mount. But the last beatitude is blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

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Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

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That's exactly what's happened to Pastor Tom. People uttering all kinds of evil against you falsely, including, and very sadly, the president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and the president of the

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Southern Baptist Convention. And it's sad to see that, to see them capitulating to the arguments of the left rather than going back to the word of God.

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But because they don't exegete the scripture, because they're not expository preachers, then they can't exegete

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Tom's tweet properly either. A simple reading comprehension to see that he was not calling

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Vice President Harris Jezebel. Right. He was not name calling. Now, given that Kamala Harris is for transgenderism, sodomy, and the sacrifice of children through abortion, calling her

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Jezebel would be pretty tame. But anyway, Jesus goes on to say, verse 12, rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

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Now, these are slanderous comments on the internet. I do believe that we're facing a persecution that's coming at us in the very near future that's gonna be more severe than just comments online.

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Yeah, and it's likely. So hold fast to Christ in these days, love his word.

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Find a good church. Yes, be in a good church. That's right. And hope in what Christ has said to us, the promises of the forgiveness of sins that we have by faith in Christ, his eternal kingdom, fellowship with God.

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All of these things are our hope in peace. Hold fast to Christ. That's right. All right, let's pray.

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Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time that we have together to meditate on your word and to think deeply about the truth that you have given to us through your prophets and apostles.

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And I pray that we handle this rightly. We're not taking things out of context. We're not making the scripture say something that we want it to say, but it is fully authoritative.

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It is sufficient. It is inerrant. God's word has authority over everyone, whether they submit to it or not, but we want to have humble hearts as we approach it.

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We wanna submit to the word of God and hold fastly to Christ, being shaped in his image, having the mind of Christ, as it says in Philippians 2 .5,

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and help us to love one another as Christ has loved us, that we forgive one another as we have been forgiven, that we show mercy as we have been shown mercy.

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And on that great day, we hear from our master and savior. Well done, good and faithful servant.

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Now great is your reward. Keep our eyes on Jesus, the author and the perfecter of our faith.