September 18, 2003

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 and now with today's topic. Here is James white. Good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line.

Reform Baptist Theological Review and the Need for Sound Resources

My name is James white. We're going to hit the ground running today because we have two very very very busy people who are going to join us. Just briefly here at the beginning of the program. And I want to make sure that they have the opportunity to say when they need to say and do so in such a way.

They can get back to work. Basically, I guess I just know a lot of people who like me work all the time sort of. Anyhow, our first first person I'd like to introduce you to a few weeks ago. Some of you Recall I mentioned the fact that there was a new publication coming out.

I wanted to bring it to your attention Reform Baptist Theological Review. I gave you the website at www .rvtr .org. Nice and short and easy to remember rvtr .org and so today I was chatting with Richard Brasello's those who know and love him Richard Barcelou and That's a long story which he probably have time to get into and I mentioned, you know.

Why don't you tell folks a little bit about it and so I know that he has places to go and things to do and Sports to coach in just a matter of minutes. So he's been kind enough to join us on the phone Richard.

Are you with us? Hi, how you doing, sir? All right, there you go. What just just briefly? Describe for the listeners. So what's your what you want to do with the Reform Baptist Theological Review? What's your what's your goal is basically?

Sure. Our goal is to present professional Reform Baptist Theological Journal to the theological world. We're focusing primarily on we hope and trust it'll be beneficial for others. It'll come from the perspective of the second London Baptist Confession of Faith or the 1689 Confession and we're going to have in every issue.

We're going to have various substance will have One article in each of these areas exegetical theology will take a text of scripture and expound it and apply it. Biblical theology historical theology.

Symbolic theology, which is a confession of faith. Systematic theology. Contemporary theology pastoral theology practical theology. And then we're going to have the last section. We'll deal with book reviews and book notices that are appropriate for our for our goal.

So you're looking at producing something here. That would be very similar to maybe some of the theological journals that Many of our listeners may have subscribed to at some point in time. And yet it's going to.

Well, let's be honest a lot of theological journals today over time succumb to a certain amount of Drift shall we say to towards the left? So a lot of folks even if they're not necessarily Reform Baptist a conservative Presbyterian would probably find a lot of the articles in there Useful and some may be even challenging.

Yeah, I think very useful. We're not though our target is reformed Baptist pastors. That's our primary target. We do have a secondary goals. We do want our ideas, which we very beneficial and then at least some of them I should I assume read a book here and there.

Oh, yeah, very helpful from a lot of the content that we're going to present. Well, excellent now when when will the first first issue be? Coming into existence copy out by January 1st 2004 if things keep going the way they're going we might even get it out by December or even earlier.

All right, and if people want some more information they can hit www .rbtr .org. Everything that they would need to know is is going to be found there subscription information. And I think there's a copy of the table of contents for the first Issue which is coming out January our second issues coming out in the Lord willing July 2004 we're going to come out with two issues a year and You are going to be writing in that one very interesting article and very important subject indeed.

Yeah, I mentioned that a couple weeks ago and looking forward very much to that. Well, I want to let folks know we always have folks asking, you know. Where can we get sound theological resources and there's a tremendous needs that kind of thing so I want to thank you first of all for this is a lot of work on your part and Your church for you know backing you up and doing that and I just want to let folks know it was there they can go to www .rbtr .org get more information and That'll do it.

Thank you very much for joining us Richard. Hey James. All right. God bless. Okay. Bye. Bye. All right. I appreciate Pastor Brassell is taking time to he's pastor of PR BC just like I'm an elder at PR BC.

It's just different PR BC Bombed every form of church Phoenix for Baptist Church. They're not in the same state. In fact right now looking at California politics I'm sort of glad of that. We need to pray for all of our.

Right now it's it's it's pretty pretty sad. So, yeah, you can't you can't help but Shake your head at some of the stuff going on. All right, that's our first of the. Today we have the three busiest men.

On the dividing line. I'm one of them. I'll admit I'm heading to Austin tomorrow morning I'm gonna be in Austin doing stuff and and then well I told y 'all the last one all about all the stuff I'm doing and we just had Richard Brassell us on.

Cruise Availability, Travel Banter, and Upcoming Debates

And now we have a man who really honestly is hoping very very much. That there is no truth whatsoever to the cell phone brain tumor theory because if there is. He's toast he's history it's all over with and that's because.

What would you estimate Mike how many hours a day do you spend on the phone anymore? Well, it would probably be the hip tumor now. Your pieces that I got insulted for many times little children like something yanket, you know.

Well, isn't it scary when you see someone walking along and they have one especially the the wireless one. They've come out now. It looks like a homeless person walking along. It takes me a lot, but I've really had to start looking this is that guy crazier is you have a cell phone?

I can't really tell I'd say well, especially today. I think I've spent a cat about. Many of you that are listening right now, that's right. Yeah, I told to listen to in fact, John Mark is wasn't channel is a little while ago.

Let me see here. And of course, actually it says he's away from the keyboard moment. But he came in and announced. Hey, I finished paying for the cruise. Yeah, so They're definitely we've got we've got Wally bolts out in the Hawaii now, he's he's in channel right now and I have the foggiest but he might be able to tell me a channel here but you gotta remember in Chandler's about 30 second lag after what you say here and.

Then they live they hear it and then they respond to it and it's a really weird thing and that's that's the sort of how It works. But anyway we have some some news for folks as far as Availability is concerned and things like that Warren Smith is no longer available.

Okay, do you want me to hit the button there? We may have to ask Warren I'll never hear about anyway. So we have some availability for the cruise. Tell folks. You know because we had some folks who wanted to go and then there was a waitlist and and Various other things.

What's what's situation? Well right now we had about 14 folks that it has dropped off or almost 100 from categories M which is about the cheapest highest level of Category A or B and if you take a look on the Alpha Omega website on the right side, I think you can see From Not alcohol.

Not to mention just up and maybe some not so outstanding. Oh, we're gonna be in the Eastern Caribbean on a beautiful ship called the Zondam which you have been on before and I Was on the sister ship the Volendam so I won't get lost so you won't have to worry about running Writing it's a reform Baptist apologists wondering about the ship loss.

Yes. Bigger than some other people have on their cruises. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna be experiencing both ends of the spectrum as far as the Volendam Zondam class of ships is concerned. And yeah, I was I was just above the boiler room a few weeks ago, and it was it was beautiful cabin I happened to be right near a staircase and so and elevators so, you know, you could get anywhere you wanted to go very very quickly and You know Again, I had plenty of room to be working and writing and and all the rest that kind of stuff.

So, yeah, there's there's no there's no bad cabins on on a Holland America Zondam class ship and so and the staff treats you wonderfully. The food is wonderful. It's all great. But the neat the neat thing is going to be not only that you could be able to get away to a beautiful Beautiful area and by the way that the for those who are worried and this is something that sir worries some folks.

I mean, this is one of the main things have been expressed to me is. Well, you know, I I don't know I've never been a cruise before. I don't know if I can get seasick. I've been on four cruises now and the Volendam which is the sister ship is on down was the Smoothest sailing ship I've ever been on.

I mean as you know You've been on 16 billion of these things you you develop what are called sea legs. And when you get off the ship if you lean up against anything, it isn't moving. You still feel waves for a couple days afterwards.

I I barely had any of that after I got off the the Volendam because there had just been so little movement. Whatsoever when I was on the ship, so. For those folks that are really really worried about that kind of thing.

Of all the ships I've been on this was the the smoothest riding one ever been on. Well, it not only do we have that tongue-in-cheek earlier, but I think that the weavers. Yeah, the deeper things of the bond in that friendship on the cruise and if you are on the cruise, by the way You will not have to pay will have the opportunity to get there early.

No, and you and he will order his entrees in his famous announcer voice, too. So we're just gonna we're are you that is bogus? You set up sort of a rotational thing where each Section of the group gets to sit with rich each each night different groups.

They can get to hear that. Yeah. Anyway, and you're gonna be talking to my wife, too. In all seriousness, we are gonna have a great Debating or I guess more right either subject. Yeah, we spent a lot of time talking about it.

So actually on the last one you'll be very happy to know I brought up the page went through everything. Even had Sam Shamoon from Chicago call in and Mentioned that he was so excited that he was probably not to be able to sleep between now and December.

So it's a really that's a really bad thing actually for Sam not to sleep, but. That's right. You know if you were planning on saving up your money and going to Ligonier's. No, no, no not gonna happen you can just you can just automatically assume even if we Held a cruise line up at gunpoint.

You're talking double the price for almost anything next time around. Yeah, okay homeland security was just alerted. Yeah, you've pretty much managed most the religious groups that's the reason your phone's ringing that's all the people canceling.

Going with us because as you can see we're already started here. We're starting to have a great time, and we don't even need I need alcohol. Please give me a call and my phone will be ringing all night and honestly.

If you just won't get me life at seven to seven or five discussion at three o 'clock in the morning. Please do not call. What's the latest you've gotten a call now? Two nights ago. I had one at about and wasn't it from back here somewhere.

No, it was from the East they would have known what I know it was it was actually from somebody in your time zone. Okay, there you go about 11 o 'clock at night. Just just remember. I'm in Tampa 11 o 'clock at night.

All you had no I you had no idea what you were getting yourself in for. Right we're gonna have we're gonna have lots of fun. Yeah, no kidding yeah. Doing it in a positive way. So have you along with us.

Give me a call if you can before my sure that we try to get you on the crew all right. Well Mike. Thank you so much for all the work you do and for all the Religious groups that you offended in the past five minutes, and I you know you I can't say that I've ever taught you that because I can't do it that quickly.

I'm a little bit slower at it, but you've you've learned to do that very well. What did the Calvin say when he fell down the stairs? So thankful that that's over with. Okay anyone else you want to do the Arminians now, I mean.

Anyway, okay, man. Thank you a lot all right brother. I can just hear the phones ringing now. What did you say about? Please don't take anything more seriously than you then you need to take them. 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number folks 877 -753 -3341.

I've had a lot of folks who said over the past number of months. Oh, man, I wish I could you know it's gonna be sold out before I think well. Here's one last opportunity, so. Take advantage of it. We'd love to have you there.

We're gonna have a real nice big group. We're going to be talking about the central tenets of the faith those areas of Theology related the Trinity the deity of Christ the atonement the the accuracy of scripture in light of the accusations of Islam that it has been corrupted all that kind of stuff and I'm going to do everything I can Lord willing my help allowing me to to get a chance to you know spend some time with with everybody obviously with 150 or more People that's not going to be overly easy to do but definitely want to have the opportunity of doing that and There's gonna be some neat folks on this cruise that we haven't even mentioned.

That you're probably gonna want to get a chance to say hello to as well. So there's the opportunity I want to thank both Michael Fallon. Like I said the man the man works tirelessly. In putting these together, they would not happen.

Believe me. They would not happen we're not for Mike and Saul Fallon and the folks back there in Florida who I think are probably breathing a sigh of relief that Isabella missed them. They're probably getting a little tired of getting hit by those things.

But when you live on a peninsula it shuts out into the ocean, you know, that's what happens and Also Richard Brassellus for letting us know about the reformed Baptist theological review. Just in case you forgot www .rbtr .org.

The Debate on Mary's Perpetual Virginity and Preparing an Opening Statement

The phone lines are open for your questions and comments on the dividing line today get in while you can before they just absolutely Completely fill up. I'll confess. This one's going to be a little tough for me.

Unless we get callers and and the reasons real simple I'm writing right now the notes the opening presentation for the debate against gerrymatitics on the subject of Did Mary have other children or as you probably would recognize that?

That is a discussion of the issue of the Roman Catholic doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary. That debate will be taking place October 3rd 7 p .m. Orson Spencer Hall, I believe is the name Of the place where it will be on the campus of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Yeah, I hope we can find that place again. We sort of wandered around last time. And in fact, have we taken care of issues like where we're staying and what we're driving and stuff like that. I have heard nothing about that.

So we. That's something that someone else got to take care of because I'm just gonna sort of show up and do my thing and because the next day I fly off to Sao Paulo Brazil, so We will be staying nearby.

Well, that makes sense. Excuse me. Anyhow, I'm working on the notes for that and it it's really hard to sort of try to break away from the Ride a moped. Yeah, great. Well, at least if it's a moped it falls over we can pick it up.

Some folks in channel understand that other folks will not. It's hard to break out of that because when you're when you're writing an opening presentation you have Approximately well in this case, I'll have 25 minutes so.

What you're doing is you're attempting to distill the strongest argument for your position. Into that period of time and you're attempting and here's the important part. You're attempting to present it in such a way that you're also making the strongest case against the other position all the same time and so you're really having.

Hi, Tim, you're really having to make decisions concerning the the weight of the argumentation. You're also making decisions concerning. Well, what do I want to present initially? What do I want to? Only mention in passing and then develop during cross-examination if at all possible.

You know you can you can have. You go into a debate with a particular idea of where you're going to be going. It doesn't necessarily end up working out that way you can try as best you can but Obviously each debate is is its own creature and You know, sometimes your opponent Sort of throws you a curve and Generally either in the in the approach they take or in their unwillingness to affirm something they've affirmed before.

That's that's about the only curve you can really end up getting. Is something along those lines or if they just simply try to change the whole topic themselves. That that has happened. Unfortunately many times, but I don't think it's gonna happen this time.

I've debated geriatrics in the subject before it was a part of four debates all done at once. And that is available from from Alpha Omega Mysteries. It's on our mp3 site and it's available only an audio tape this well, I'll take that back.

It is available in video. It was the first of the great debates on Long Island and the sound sunk. Let's just face it. It was. The sound was done. What's called off-air or with a microphone? That's just catching up the catching the the room sounds which is just the worst possible way of doing it and Unfortunately, that's how it ended up happening and.

So but it is available, but it was very short. And then most of you know that just a few weeks ago. We were blessed to have Eric Stenson with us. We discussed His debate with Jerry Maddox on this subject and I went through a number of the issues there and pointed out various sundry things.

And so I certainly know what? Mr. Maddox has said in the past and It is somewhat ironic if the Roman Catholic position makes a different presentation than it has in the past. Especially if Rome's theology allegedly does not change.

Mr. Maddox being a traditionalist you know might come up with some new new arguments, but you know, I Don't think so. I have a feeling we pretty much know where he's going to be going. And what kind of responses he's going to be giving and that may make things even better we can sort of get past the Stuff that normally gets in the way in essence and to really focus upon things.

So that's what I'm writing. That's what's on the screen right in front of me right now I've already gotten through. Well, what I'll do here after I finish the main outline is I'll I'll read it. I'll see what where it comes as far as time goes and that gives me some idea.

It is interesting, I don't know why I guess I was laughing too much. I I don't know why this is but every time in a debate in the past when I've had a written Presentation for the opening I never have it for other parts really I mean, I'll have questions written out that I want to get to in the order I want to get to them and rarely get to all those either.

But every time the past I have had a written opening and I have timed it and I always shoot for about 30 seconds less than the amount of time that I have. Because normally when you want to get up you want to say, you know Thank you for being here.

Just a few little things like that. And just in case you lose your place or whatever. I Always end up having to cut something out. And in fact, I would say When you're sitting Outside of the debate outside the context of a public situation.

What I'm really gonna start doing now is is shooting for 90 seconds less. The the worst situation was when I had an opening presentation of the debate against the dr Sanders on the subject of open theism at reform theological seminary I had to cut out almost the entire last page.

I was so far off as far as Just reading it and and I obviously I try to read it in a speaking voice. I try to read it as I would be presenting it. But still once you're up there what you once you are standing in front of everybody.

I don't know what it is. I don't know if you know go into a time warp or just what it is. But you you read you speak more slowly and so you can't get as much much material out. So once I get done with this section, I'll go back I will read it again attempting to do so in a natural voice and a voice as if I was speaking to an audience and Then that will give me an idea.

Okay, what can I expand? What other points can I put in? You know, how do you do this? Obviously in a two and a half hour debate, which is what we're looking at. We're not going to deal with everything we can't.

But you want to present your strongest arguments you want to present them in the way that will be quite simply the most Illuminating for the audience in how the other side responds to it. So you want to present your your material in a way that's room that's Rememberable it's memorable.

It's something that the audience is going to go. Well, you know, he made this point made this point he made this point and You know the other side never really addressed this I'd never really addressed that in fact what you really want to do is What you want to in essence?

Anticipate the other person's argument and answer his arguments before he can make them. If you can anticipate where he's going you anticipate and in this case, we're dealing with the dogma. He it's not like he can rearrange the entire concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary.

If he tries I've got all sorts of statements that he himself made in previous debates. You can't really go anywhere I can't go anywhere either. I mean, I've already made my position very clearly known here.

And so This may be you know, Jerry and I have debated soul scripture three times. And the third debate was the best. Why well because in the first two the first one I mean he had no idea where I was coming from and he was assuming I was just going to be a sort of a backwoods ignorant fundamentalist type person and There was all sorts of misrepresentations and it was it was lousy in comparison to the later debates.

No, no two ways about it the second debate was It was marred by the fact that that Jerry actually got up and and I don't know if this is still available, but I Think it is. This is the 1992 debate in Omaha and he got up and he identified Vinnie Lewis as the greatest Catholic apologist of our day and All you have to do is is listen to a few Vinnie Lewis tapes and We we have I think we have the mp3 of my radio debate with Vinnie Lewis available and When you listen to it, you you just are left gasping that that Jerry Medetich stood before an audience and Said that Vinnie Lewis is the best.

He even himself that he is not as prepared. He is not as able as Vinnie Lewis and Vinnie Lewis is just. Well, if you've never listened to him, he's the Peter Ruckman of Roman Catholic apologists, how's that?

That that might Give some of you at least if you're familiar with Peter Ruckman and Ruckman ism an idea of who we're talking about here. So that one was sort of marred by that and so the third one and The third one was one of the few places Fear few debates where Jerry hasn't started off with the David and Goliath.

I am so completely unprepared I didn't know what day of the week it is. I'm living on one coke. Wrote on my notes on the yellow pad on my way here stuff. And now it's because I had faxed him and said, please don't do that.

I haven't faxed him this time and I probably need to do that. I probably need to drop him a note and say please let's skip all that stuff. It's you've done it over and over and over again. Let's let's not do that.

And so the third one was the best it was it was the best in the sense and I'm I'm I Judge debates not about you know, I'm not looking for easy debates. If I'm going to invest this kind of time I want my poem to actually present a challenge and so I'm hoping that mr. Matics will give it his best shot and but of course, I think he's defending a hopelessly lost case to begin with and So, how do you defend a hopelessly lost case will generally by obfuscation?

Generally by you know trying to throw dust and sand and We noted a number of those dust and sand throwing techniques when he was debating Eric Stenson. So what's my job then my job in my opening presentation is to try to Sort of in a debate format.

In essence spray down the ground and And get it wet. So there's no dust and sand to grab in other words Focus very clearly in the opening presentation on exactly what needs to be accomplished in the debate and Anticipating his presentations cut through that stuff as much as I can, you know, I can't control what he's gonna say.

He he could get up there and he can talk about you know How the incarnations unique and therefore Mary's unique and and he can present all sorts of utterly invalid parallels and everything else. I can't stop that but I can try at least to prepare the audience for it and Make sure that they're watching for it and then in the cross-examination cut through to what's really meaningful.

And that's what I'm going to try to do now if I recall correctly. I Should have looked at this I think they only had They have 30 minutes their opening presentation. I think they did with when Erica debated Jerry.

We have 25 minutes and 25 minutes is long enough in our society. A lot of folks just don't have an attention span that survives much more than 25 minutes of the same voice those of you who listen to this program are unusual and even we break it up at the halfway point at least we used to and then you know the the computer died a thousand deaths and so we don't do that anymore, but It that's that's enough time I think we're going to be able to at least you know at the end of the end of the evening I think a person Who doesn't have a lot of knowledge the background is going to be able to go?

You know what? I understand what the issues are and I have enough information upon which to make a decision Concerning this particular subject. I think they're going to be able to do that. And so that's what I'm attempting to do in this this particular period of time as I'm writing these things.

This is actually rather early for me to be doing this but that's because I'm going to Austin this week. I've got something next week obviously, I'll be reviewing these things between now and then but Get the information down and be able to to go from there eight seven seven seven five three three three four one eight seven seven.

Seven five three three three four one if you would like to talk about any of the things we've talked about so far today. Reform Baptist theological review. Finding good theological resources. Whatever it might be or if you would like to discuss the issue of the upcoming debates.

Anything along those lines or any other lines for that matter except of course for eschatology because that's not really going to get you anywhere. Because I'm just not into eschatology whatsoever. Important field.

I'm sure there's lots of Great stuff on it out there, but it's just I just I just can't I can't get into it. I have a particular view, but I'm I just I just can't get into it. So Anyhow, eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the phone number.

I invite you to Join us and to participate in the program today. I just popped back into the channel actually and And Lost lost my contact with everybody. There we go. I'm back. Yay. Nice to nice to be back with you all.

There's one person channel that would like to talk about his new Oakley's. He'd be hot. You know what? I'd be happy to have you contact me as well. Because I could demonstrate that you know what? I probably know what which pair you have and could compare your Oakley's with with mine as well.

If you'd like that, that's fine. We could talk about people who are crazy enough to ride motorcycles. Or murder cycles as some people like to put that's fun. Ah. And we could talk about all sorts of things.

But hey, you know what? We could talk about important things too. And that's what we're going to do because Well, I guess we did run out of we did run out of time the last time we were talking and we've got Little more time this week.

Dave Hunt, Romans 9, and Hebrews 10 in the Atonement Debate

Last time this is about I guess it was a was it a week ago. I don't recall Maybe I forget what it was. We were talking with Pierre in Well now Virginia is right now sort of getting blown around the map, isn't it?

So Pierre, are you are you uh under the the gun of Isabel? Yeah, pretty much not too bad where I'm at What kind of okay is a lot lots of rain lots of wind. That's the rain and wind but not quite as bad as some of the people on the coast are getting.

So you're you're a little bit farther in inland. Yeah, so Western Fairfax County. Oh, okay. All right. Well, then well good. So you've not a lot of power outages or things in your area here I've seen a couple of trees blown down on the way in.

Oh my but I'll say things are intact. Well good for anyway. All right. Well Obviously it must be working if a you can hear hear the program and be you can get a phone line out so Must let's not be too bad at that particular point where you are and now if I recall correctly the last time we were talking about Dave Hunt and I've I've meant it mentioned the irony.

I had been talking about Dave Hunt's comments on If I recall correctly, it was Romans chapter 9. We played his his comments on that particular section and Though you probably don't agree a lot with Dave Hunt on most of the things he said have you ever read?

For example his materials on on other subjects here. I have not I mean You know that he co-authored I think it was Godmakers too. Yeah, I was wondering I thought I had heard that I wasn't sure if that was actually true, but yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he involved in that. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, I mean We're talking we're talking someone who's got very very very strong views on those particular subjects and in fact, I would I would take issue with the accuracy of Some of his writings on that particular subject, but you called him to defend what he had to say so it is I find that interesting in light of the the fact that there's a lot of groups that just very very much opposed to the concept of of Calvinism and reform theology and and here's a Confluence and we were discussing what the actual text of Romans chapter 9 said and at one point you had to raise The other passages 2nd period 3 9 1st Timothy 2 for Matthew 23 37 to 39 and I honestly don't recall exactly where it was that we we finished up, but you wanted to Want to respond to the last things that were said I guess.

Yes, and I actually I'm calling as you made a comment Towards the end about Hebrews chapter 10 and the atonement. Yes, and I can't listen to your archives I'm not sure whether it's my computer. No. No, it's not your computer.

The straight gate calm is currently down. I I can't imagine it's going to stay down forever. But if you go to our website We have put up a while we haven't actually the person making this live broadcast available has has put up a temporary archive of I think the last four or five and we'll just keep adding them until straight gate comes back.

It's not your computer it is straight gate calm and We know that Stephen Luker who runs it knows about it. He's working on it. Hopefully we'll get it'll come back eventually. I had hoped to review my our conversation so I could tell my.

Yeah, well specifically Hebrews chapter 10 beginning at verse 10 by this will We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ. Once for all every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices which can never take away sins.

But he having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time sat down at the right hand of God waiting for that time onward until his enemies made a footstool for his feet for by one offering he has perfected for all time.

Those who are sanctified and I had mentioned that I had written an article. On our website it is. It's no longer the main page article, but it was for about three months or so this year mainly because I'm just slow at getting main page articles written and it is archived in the Either in the Roman Catholic section or in the Reformed Theology section where I go through this passage rather in-depth in response to some comments made by Robertson Janice a Traditionalist Roman Catholic apologist in light of a debate that we did at the University of Utah and that would be back in April.

That's what I was referring to so he was chapter 10 verses 10 through 14. I think my my comment to you was in light of the fact that you would probably hold to a concept of atonement. That is universalistic.

Obviously your view of the atonement would also include the concept of Christ's Suffering in the garden and so on so forth, but especially the concept of Christ's atonement. Well Let's you express it for yourself, but it doesn't perfect Those for whom it is made.