More Machen Quizzing

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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

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Apostle Paul said, But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

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In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

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By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

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King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry.

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Pastor Steve Cooley is present in person and con carne, in the flesh.

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Si. Although I prefer con queso. Tell me why you're a vegetarian.

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Why would that be? You know, as I got older, it just seemed to me that I wanted to stop participating in the death of animals.

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Oh. Okay. I like that. Plus, you know, there's that Hindu vibe.

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Why? Why? I would never become a vegetarian. Sorry. Well, I think of, who knows,

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Ted Nugent or somebody was talking about how many animals you have to kill for your soybean fields and all the moles and gophers and other animals that you have to kill to keep that those plants growing.

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So you're going to kill animals one way or the other. I mean, Ted just has such a gracious way around him, though, you know,

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I haven't heard for a while. But yet, you know, he's very, yeah, I mean, he's smart, but boy, oh boy, he can fire people up.

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I know. I know. Well, I was thinking about food, Steve, and your faux vegan vegetarian stuff, because in front of me,

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I have a little picture of a cinnamon roll. And it says here, a look, a likeness of Mother Teresa, and doesn't have a question mark.

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See, I think if you're looking for Mother Teresa in your cinnamon roll, you're spending too much time looking at your cinnamon roll and not enough time eating your cinnamon roll.

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Well, you know, I want the cinnamon rolls in the center, right? And this looks like it's a corner piece. And this is in the

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Tennessean via the Associated Press. I'm getting hungry, by the way. Pastry enshrined.

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So it's like in a little box. Yes, you are. There might be some meat products in this, in the oil. I don't think this is olive oil.

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Yeah, that's fine. It says hundreds of people have flocked to the Bongo Java Cafe shop in Nashville to see a likeness of Mother Teresa on a cinnamon bun.

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It was shellacked and put on display after a customer who bought it said it looked like the

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Roman Catholic missionary. Okay, now that it's been shellacked, I don't want to eat it. If I could just be honest,

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I'm no longer interested in eating that cinnamon roll. Why do people say sometimes when they're discussing a person who needs some rebuking or discipline, that person needs to get shellacked?

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I don't know, but it's kind of morbid. I think we should do some theologically shellacking. That's always, you know, better shows.

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They're more downloaded than the positive. Theological shellacking. Yeah, let's shellack away. And then one other bit of information, because I just was in Ventura and I thought you might find this interesting, an old account here in the news, a

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Hindu man, Mukesh Rai, filed a lawsuit in Ventura, California in January against Taco Bell for causing him to do, quote, the equivalent of eating his ancestors, end quote, said his lawyers, by negligently substituting a beef burrito for a bean burrito.

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Rai said the medical condition, this required medical condition, he was forced to miss work and to travel to India for purification.

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Taco Bell offered to calm the anguished Rai by exchanging the beef burrito for a bean one, but according to Rai, he refused to refund him the price difference between the two.

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When was the last time you ate at Taco Bell? Yeah, well, I can pretty much tell you it was about, let me see, 16 years ago.

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Okay. I think it's 12 for me. Yeah. And I got sick the last time I did. Yeah. I really can't do it. I know.

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Those guys on PresbyCast, when I listen to them, they love Taco Bell. I think they just like the sauces. I love

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Taco Bell too. It's just not mutual affection. I saw an old picture of Creedence Clearwater Revival at a

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Taco Bell in 1972 in the old Taco Bell hut. Sellouts. Corporate shills.

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So enough of that, Steve, tell us about your Machen class and what are we doing today? We're on hybrid.

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Hybrid? What? We're on hypersthesia. We're on vacay.

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I mean, we just - We're on hybrid. Is that like a Zoom and in -person hybrid thing?

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And because of the cows, we have to go to India. You're on sabbatical. Yeah. That's it.

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That's where we are. Yeah. That's this mistake I usually make. We got through 19 chapters.

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And so we'll pick it up again in the fall. Okay. And so in front of me is the Westminster Seminary Press Book, a coalition of old

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Machen articles and broadcasts and radio addresses called Things Unseen, right?

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Yes. It's a very good class, a very good book. All right. And how many -

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It's actually a stupendous book. I mean, seriously, people may or may not know it.

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I just started underlying every single time stupendous shows up and it's quite a bit. It was like, it must've been the cool word of the time, right?

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Like instead of things being cool, they were stupendous. Now, I heard that somebody,

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I don't know if it's Westminster Seminary Escondido or Philly, the Machen picture is covered or something like that.

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Or is that just a rumor? I don't know. Because, you know, something in his background. I don't know. I'm so tired of the, you know, the cancellation kind of thing.

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I mean, it's crazy. So nothing would surprise me. Everybody gets canceled. It's just a question of, you know, for what?

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In my case, it was because apparently I ate some tiger tails when I was a child.

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So - Tiger tails. Well, they might try to cancel Machen, but you know, I never could think, you know, Gerhardus Voss will probably never get canceled.

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Voss? Voss is, I call him the Teflon Voss. The Teflon Voss.

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They'll come after him for something. So we're up to what chapter now? This is chapter 17 is where we started this last class.

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And what do we want to do today? Another quiz? Sure. Quizzes are fun. Quizzes are fun for everyone.

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Especially hybrid quizzes. Sure. Okay. This is, what's the title of the chapter, by the way, for chapter 17?

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Do we know exactly? I don't know. I have the book in front of me here. Let's see.

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We have Things Unseen, A Systematic Introduction to the Christian Faith and Reformed Theology, Forward by Ferguson, Preface by Nichols, Introduction by Somebody We Won't Name, and Afterword by Gaffin.

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And today, chapter 17, and that is The Testimony of Paul to Christ.

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Chapter 18 is the Holy Spirit. Chapter 19 is the Living and True God. Yeah. So you want me to, how about I ask the questions since you're more soaked and shellacked in this?

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But see, if you ask me, because I wrote the questions, it kind of makes it a little bit easier for me because I know exactly what

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I was thinking when I wrote them. Okay. You know, so. So just read a response, theory, major stuff. Yeah. You know, because some of the wording is a little tricksy.

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Okay. Go ahead. Number one. True or false? False. It is reasonable to question the traditional position on the authorship of the four

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Gospels. Oh. And now you even have pages in there. It's reasonable to question. So you say, well, is it unreasonable to question?

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I think it's reasonable to question it because I'd like to know if there was, if the veracity of the

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Gospels and both external and internal evidence would support Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

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So I think it's reasonable to at least ask, are these? It's to me. It's a well phrased answer. It's wrong.

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I think it's unreasonable to say, you know what? These things aren't because, aren't inspired by the scripture.

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Yes. Well, I mean, that, that was my point kind of, um, in reading

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Machen, certainly what he said was, well, I'll just read what he said, liberals dispute the authorship and date and historical value of each of the

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Gospels. If therefore we begin by assuming that any of these Gospels was written by the man whose name was attached to it in the opinion of the church, we shall be accused at once of begging the question.

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In other words, you can't just assume that Mark wrote Mark or Luke wrote Luke because by doing it, you're kind of already taking into account that the historical position instead, you need to prove it.

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Then he says the traditional view of the authorship of all four of these books is disputed by our opponents in this great debate.

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However, my point is that's not reasonable. In other words, there's no, there's no basis for their doubt.

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They're just saying, you know, 1900 years later, essentially, because this book is almost a hundred years old, it's 80 years old.

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In other words, prove it. You know, you want to say that Matthew wrote Matthew? Prove it. I'm like, okay.

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You know, I mean, for me, the internal evidence and the traditional ascribing of the authorship to Matthew is enough for me.

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Witness of the church throughout the centuries. But even more, well, let's see. More importantly, the internal evidence of what they say and everything else all points to Jesus Christ and there's no reason to doubt, there's no reason to doubt their veracity or the authorship of them.

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There's no, and that's what I meant by reasonable, you know, there's no reason for it. They just want to be scoffers.

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Well, I don't know about you, Steve, but when I study the five gospel accounts,

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Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Q, I sometimes wonder, it's interesting.

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I'm in 2 Peter 3 this coming Sunday, and it says in verse 1, now this is the second letter that I'm writing to you, beloved.

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In both of them, I am stirring up your sincere mind by a way of reminder. That's 2

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Peter 3 .1. I have read way too many, is this

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Peter's second letter? Is 1 Peter the first letter? Did Peter write 2 Peter? Were there other letters that Peter wrote?

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What about the pseudepigraph of Peter and all this stuff? And I just think, you know what? When I approach scripture,

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I have to factor in worship. And what is the most worshipful? And I think of the

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Lord Jesus always, Steve, when I consider even the Old Testament. And I'll say to myself,

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Jesus affirmed and confirmed Obadiah and Esther, right? Even though the word God isn't in there, right?

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Yahweh and Elohim, but I'm going to take that into account. And then you read in 2

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Peter 3, Paul's other writings that are scripture. There's plenty in here that we can go to.

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Well, when you start from a position of, I don't trust the Bible, I don't believe the

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Bible, okay? Why not? Because I don't believe in the God of the

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Bible is the correct answer, right? That's so true. Steve, maybe we could do a little personal anecdote.

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Why is it or how is it? Could you explain maybe theologically? You have all these questions about the

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Bible when you're a Mormon and you're wondering about this, that or the other, and you have doubts and everything else.

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The Spirit of God regenerates you. You're now justified. You're forgiven. You're reconciled.

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You're redeemed. You're given the Holy Spirit so you can understand these things. And the Bible just all of a sudden overnight, right, literally, you just say, what

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I used to doubt, I now totally trust. Well, yes. And I would say too that as a

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Mormon, the idea was never, let's study the Bible. Let's figure out what

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God has revealed to us. Because think about it. If God is still revealing things, if he's still speaking in essence, then the

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Bible becomes less critical. You know, what's God saying today? Who cares what God said 2 ,000 years ago or 3 ,000 years ago?

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What's he saying right now, right? That's true. Maybe the illustration falls short, but when I'm on a plane and I look at the

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ESPN 20 stations, right, there's 20 ESPN stations, and now they're playing a repeat of an old

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Notre Dame, Michigan football game from 1969. I'm not interested. No. No.

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Because I want the new stuff. Yeah. Oh, what were they rated back then? I mean, who cares? I don't even know, you know,

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Bo Schembechler versus whatever, you know, I mean. Who was the coach of Notre Dame?

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Maybe Dan Devine? Eric Parsegan was either. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Okay. Well, all that to say,

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I personally don't question the traditional position of the authorship of the four

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Gospels. Good move. By the way, on a side note, do you still believe what Master Seminary taught you, and that is

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Matthew was the earliest written Gospel? Absolutely. Okay. Why wouldn't I? I don't know.

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I'm just wondering. I mean, it's, you know, a position of scoffers to... Mark and priority scoffers.

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Okay, so I'm O for one. Okay. But I have to admit, I was busy the last two Saturdays, so I did not read these chapters for class.

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Well, you know, the Bible says that in later times, people will not properly read their Machen, so...

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Mm -hmm. Okay. Number two, true or false, Paul was a contemporary of Jesus and knew several of the men in his inner circle.

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Well, I hope Machen hasn't fallen off the Machen bus because there were people that Paul knew, like Peter, who

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I think last time I checked, Peter was in the inner circle. Yes, yeah.

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And so he says that, but it's just interesting because I don't know, I don't often think about it and just think, okay,

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Paul was alive, yes. I mean, somehow in my mind, a lot of times, you know,

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Paul isn't really even alive to the book of Acts. You know what I mean? Right. He's decades past Peter, right?

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Yes. So you read the first part of Acts, it's about Peter, then, you know, the Spirit of God working in Peter and through Peter, and then let's later, you know, like third century or, you know,

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Tertullian... I mean, it just seems like he's just way, way later, and the reality is, no.

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You know, I mean, he would have been a very young man, but he was alive during the time of Jesus. And, you know, did he know the inner circle of Jesus?

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Well, yeah, but probably not till after the resurrection, you know. Well, and he actually knew of, of course, some of those in the inner circle because he's there essentially demanding

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Stephen's death. Yes. So he knew about them and was perfectly willing to persecute them.

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And if he would have been able to locate the other guys, he would have been after them too. You know what that reminds me of,

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Steve, is in 1 Corinthians 15, the resurrection chapter, and Paul appeals to our own personal resurrection because he says there are, there are things like the resurrection, obviously, of the

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Lord Jesus. And it says that he appeared, Jesus did after his resurrection, he appeared to Cephas, then to the 12.

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Then he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of them of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

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In other words, you doubt that I'm going to, you doubt my testimony of the resurrection? Go talk to some of the people that are alive, because a lot of people that saw him as a resurrected

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Jesus, they're alive. Go talk to them. Yeah, still walking around. Yeah. And I like what he says about, because it does remind me of the commentary by Andrew Lincoln in Ephesians.

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He says, even the most skeptical critics, except a few extremists who altogether, who are altogether without influence upon the current of modern thought admit that the principal ones of Pauline epistles were really written by the

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Apostle Paul and written in the first generation of the Christian Church. In other words, Paul wrote the

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Pauline epistles, except when you read Lincoln on Ephesians and he says, well, he spends 50 pages explaining why

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I Paul an apostle doesn't mean I Paul an apostle, right? There are some good things in the

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Lincoln commentary, but when I preach through Ephesians and that was front loaded, Paul didn't write this.

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It kind of just takes away any desire I have for the Lincoln commentary.

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I took a class on exegesis of Ephesians and that was a required textbook. And reading that,

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I'm just like, can I have my money back? You know, refund. Yeah. Quite, quite bad.

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But yeah, I mean, he goes on to say he spent 15 days with Peter in Galatians and talks about that and just different places where he interacted with the, with the apostles.

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Anyway. Good. Good. Well, so far, no compromise radio where I'm one for two at least, right?

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50 -50. You're on your way to getting a failing grade. Uh -huh. That's, but yeah, but, but in my mind

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I'm doing better. And so it's not about my real grade. It's how I think I'm doing. That's right. That's right. You identify as a passing student.

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So you're doing well. Uh -huh. Okay. All right. Number three. Number three. True or false. Paul directly calls

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Jesus God. Bunches of times. True. True. Yeah.

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Yeah. God, our Savior, God, our Savior. We could talk about. Well, the clearest one he gives, I mean, he gives one is

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Romans 9, 5, which says, to them belong the patriarchs and from their race, according to the flesh is the

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Christ who is God overall blessed forever. It's pretty hard to dispute that one.

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Well Steve, one of the practical applications here on No Compromise Radio Ministry is when a Jehovah's Witness or a

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Mormon comes to your door, dear listener, and they might want to discuss, especially JWs, John 1, 1, because they've been trained to talk about that.

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And I like to say, oh, do you have your Bibles? And both JWs and Mormons will have Bibles, and they'll whip out either

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New World Translation or King James. And I say, could you please turn your Bible to Romans 9, 5?

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They have a hard time finding it, by the way, and I say, you can use your tabs if you want. You can use your table of contents.

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And then I go to Romans 9, 5, and then the other passage that I take them to is, could you please go to Titus 2, 13?

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And then I ask them, these are talking about Jesus as God, true or false. And they're like, yeah, but what about John 17?

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You know, Jesus isn't as great. I say, that's not what we're doing right now. So Romans 9, 5 is an excellent passage.

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And even if you think about Titus 2, 13, that'd be another good one.

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And he also talks about how Paul refers to Jesus as Lord a number of times, then he says that B .B.

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Warfield put forth the hypothesis that Lord was

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Pauline shorthand for the second person of the Trinity. Okay. I like that.

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Well, we in No Compromise Radio Ministry believe that Jesus is God. Is he the begotten

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God or the unbegotten God? Well he's the begotten God, eternally begotten. Well we would say probably he's the begotten, the

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Father's the unbegotten, Jesus is the begotten. The Son is begotten because he's the

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Son, eternally begotten. Because there was never a time when he did not exist. Begotten not made.

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That's right. I mean, when you start trying to unravel the

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Trinity, you know, prepare for mind bogglation. And I actually like that. Yeah.

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That was one of the things that I enjoyed about Matthew Barrett's book, Simply Trinity, is because I thought I am in deep water.

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And I actually, Steve, I don't think I know how deep of water I'm in, right? But if you jumped in the ocean above the

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Marianas Trench and you're like, well, it could be 10 feet or it could be 10 ,000 feet, but this is deep.

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I think I see the surface. Oh no. No, it's a little further. Maybe that's the surface. And then

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I think to myself, oh, this is so precise, so technical, so easy to fall off into some error that I think

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I'll just go be a pastor of a church and write my own statement of faith. Yeah. It's simpler, isn't it?

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That is so bad. It's simpler because I always agree with my own statement of faith.

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That's true. And then I want everybody at the church to match up to my statement of faith in order to be a member and teach here.

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What are we doing? Creating our own cult of biblicism, right? Steve, I think it's, well, obviously it's the

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Lord's grace that He has protected us through all of our foibles. At least we know how to counsel people when we say this is what not to do because we did all the bad things.

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I think we, you know, I'll use this word carefully. I think we've evolved into something, you know, better.

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I mean, the Lord is sanctifying us, I guess I can say. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Number four. And you were monergistic in your sanctification talk there.

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God is sanctifying us. That's good. Thank you. Passively, we are... Number four.

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Why would, quote, grace to you and peace from God, our Father and Martin Luther be blasphemous?

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Right? People think we worship Luther, we worship Calvin, you know, so why would that be blasphemous if we said that?

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Well, I just was reading Romans 1 as we were talking and it says, grace to you and peace from God, our

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Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. And I almost made mention of the fact that if we don't have one

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God, you know, one essence, three subsistences or persons, then this is...what

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kind of glory can we ascribe to Jesus, the Son, the Lord Jesus, that it would take away and eclipse the glory of the

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Father and this kind of Trinitarian talk. If I said grace to you and peace from God, our

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Father and the Lord Jesus and Mary, that would be just as bad. But obviously,

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Luther, while the Lord used him to tell us things like sola fide and justification by faith alone and repent of our repentance type of thing, we can't include him in the eternal

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Godhead. Right. I like what he says. He says that... He being Machen. Machen.

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Imagine it being said about any other man who ever lived or woman, right? Including Mary, right?

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The greatest of reformers of the holiest of saints, grace to you and peace from God, our Father and Martin Luther, or the

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Apostle Paul himself, or John, the beloved disciple. And I think you will at once see how blasphemous such a form of words would be, because it makes, it puts that person on the same level as God makes them

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God. Right. So, when he says, God, our Father and Jesus Christ, or the

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Lord Jesus Christ, or however he phrases it, we understand that they are equal, because they are equal, right?

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And the idea that we would put anybody else on that level would be blasphemy. I think the

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Pharisees and the false teachers understood it. In John 5, it says, but Jesus answered them, my

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Father is working until now, and I am working. And they didn't...

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Who talks that way? Yeah. They didn't dig that. They did not like that at all. This was why the

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Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling

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God his own Father. And here it comes, making himself equal with God.

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Over and over and over again, they did that. And so, that's why when your Muslim friends say, Jesus never claimed to be

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God, you can go to John 5, John 8, John 10, and you could say, well, the original audience... They all knew.

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Perfectly understood. That's why they... And I mean, even post -crucifixion, they were still going after him for the same thing.

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They understood exactly what he was saying. Would it be blasphemous to say, grace to you and peace from God, our

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Father, in the cinnamon roll bun? Well... Mother Teresa.

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Well, let me think about that. I mean, I'm really wanting a Cinnabon right about now.

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Oh, can you imagine dipped in some kind of butter, glazed? I walk past those places and I just avoid them.

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Yeah, this is not good for my diet. Mike Abendroth, Steve Cooley, No Compromise Radio, talking about Machen today and the

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Lord Jesus Christ. See you next time. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's Word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

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Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston.

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You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.