F4F | Lindsay Davis and The Escape From Hogwarts

Fighting for the Faith

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:15

Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the Faith here on YouTube. I am Chris Roseborough, your servant in Jesus Christ.

00:22

This is the channel that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the Word of God.

00:27

No shortage of really bizarre things being said out there. And we're gonna switch it up today. We're gonna switch it up.

00:32

We're gonna be interviewing, in fact, on the line on Skype, I have Lindsay Davis.

00:38

She is the gal who, after watching the movie American Gospel, the documentary,

00:44

I happen to be in it near the end, you know, like the last third of that. But after watching it, her eyes were open,

00:52

God opened her eyes, and she realized she was being deceived. And of all places where she was, she was at the

01:00

Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. Now, moving forward, we'll just call it Hogwarts. And so she has been set free from this, and if you look her up on YouTube, she's done several interviews along that line, and I've invited her on because I really want to talk a little bit about her experience.

01:21

Funny enough, there's some overlap between things that she experienced and I experienced, although I never went to Hogwarts.

01:27

I was in the latter rain movement. But her coming out, now the question is, how does one pick up the pieces after they've been deceived so profoundly in ways like this, and I mean, does this rock your faith, and things of that nature?

01:44

Because there's so much deception going on, dealing with this type of issue is quite important in helping people to come to grips with the fact that they may be attending a bad church, and the question is, what's next?

02:00

What does it cost you? Funny enough, it can cost you relationships, you can be shunned,

02:05

I mean there's all different types of tactics used by people to keep control over others and make it so the cost is so high they can't even leave.

02:14

But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me bring Lindsay on to the program, and unmute you.

02:20

There you go! Lindsay, thanks for coming on Fighting for the Faith. I've watched your story and kept an eye on it, you know, since we first heard about your eyes being opened, and I gotta give you at least some props, because you stayed at Hogwarts for five months after God opened your eyes to the fact that this was bonkers.

02:48

How did you gut that out? Yeah, well, after I watched

02:54

American Gospel and my eyes were open to the truth, I was sick to my stomach and didn't sleep for three nights, and I was really at a crossroads where I had to decide what

03:07

I was going to do. I was either going to leave or I was going to stay, and I would have been completely justified in leaving, but I did feel this overwhelming burden for the people there to see them repent and come to true saving faith in Christ, and so I prayed about it, and the

03:28

Lord really just gave me the strength to stay as long as I could before I got kicked out, to preach the gospel to these people and call them to repentance.

03:41

And so yeah, I mean, it was really just the grace of God that, like, gave me the strength to stay that long.

03:46

It was definitely not easy. It was really torturous, actually, if I'm being completely honest, because once your eyes are open to the truth, the way that you experience things and the way that you see things and the way that you just go through the, you know,

04:05

Hogwarts process is just so different. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was really bad, but so much good came from it, obviously, and still needs to come from it.

04:17

Right. Now, a couple of, you know, ways I want to go here as we still kind of talk about your

04:23

Hogwarts experience. Number one, we'll go kind of to the end. Were you kicked out for false doctrine?

04:31

Were you kicked out for blaspheming the Holy Spirit? What were the charges that were brought against you?

04:38

The primary charge brought against me was the fact that while I was still in school,

04:45

I was calling out these false teachers, Bill Johnson and Chris Vallotton, on social media while I was still attending the school.

04:54

And, you know, the reason that I did that was because, you know, the Lord gave me this platform with a lot of people that followed me, but,

05:02

I mean, almost everyone at Bethel followed me on social media, and so it wouldn't have been feasible for me to have one -on -one conversations with every single person at Bethel, so I was going to utilize this platform for good to hopefully try and make these people see the truth, and so that's what

05:21

I was doing and so when I got kicked out, the charges were basically, you know, calling out the leaders being dishonorable.

05:31

That's a huge thing, their culture of honor. Yeah. I was being dishonorable, and, you know,

05:38

I was speaking out against false doctrine and demonic practices, so yeah, that's why

05:44

I was kicked out. And, you know, they tried to reason with me, they tried to get me to stop doing what

05:50

I was doing, so in a sense they were almost giving me chances to stop what

05:55

I was doing, but I told them, you know, I can't stop speaking up about this unless you stop preaching false doctrine and, you know, practicing demonic things, so.

06:08

Yeah, it's funny enough, I mean, you were there shortly after we covered the connection between Bethel and the people down in Australia, Christ Alignment, who came up with these tarot cards, and they're giving people, you know, like, you know, tarot card readings claiming that they're being powered by the

06:30

Holy Spirit, and at first, Vallotton denied this and thought, you know, this is completely wackerdoodle, see how the discernment people have no discernment, and it turns out that there was a complete connection there, and the mother of the...well,

06:46

let me put it this way, the person who was involved with Christ Alignment, she's the mother of, like, a famous guy who's also a

06:52

Hogwarts grad, and so, you know, these connections are bizarre, and their practices are not...not

07:00

only they're not biblical, I mean, they cross the line into the reading of omens, into the occult type of practices, they've somehow baptized and blessed, if you can even say it that way, you know, the practices of New Age people and psychics.

07:17

Was this, like, some of the stuff that they were teaching you at Hogwarts? They weren't necessarily teaching it to us, but in your second or third year, you can go on these little, like, short -term mission trips, and some of them would be to psychic fairs, and at these psychic fairs, they would set up these tents, and they would not use the terms

07:45

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to lead people into encounters, but they would use the phrase

07:52

Spirit of Creation, which, I mean, if you're familiar with Hinduism, that's also something that they say.

08:00

Wow. So, yeah, I mean, I've also seen friends of mine who attend

08:07

BSSM in videos with, you know, Jenny Hodge from Christ Alignment, and they were doing these destiny cards, and also

08:17

Teresa Dedman, who is in charge of, you know, the worship and the art and all of that.

08:23

Yeah, yeah, we covered her destiny pants. Yeah, I mean, it's ridiculous. It's prophetic, you know, spandex, you know,

08:31

I don't know, it's just bizarre. It's absolutely bonkers.

08:40

And they defend this idea that somehow, you know, you know, God, you know, can use their artwork or their merchandise for the purpose of, you know, some kind of spiritual enlightenment.

08:51

Bonkers. Now, when we talked, I don't think it was last week, it was the week before, you had told me that as part of your class assignments you went on a, you know, you went and did evangelism out in Reading, and you were actually sharing the gospel with people.

09:11

Can you tell us about that experience, because I think this is one of those ones where it's just super disjointed between the reality there at Bethel and the biblical reality of sound doctrine.

09:24

Yeah, absolutely. So, just to preface this whole thing, one of my most memorable experiences in the evangelism group at Bethel was, you know, when

09:39

I came out of Deception, I was still close with a lot of the people at Bethel, and so I asked one of the leaders of this group if I could speak in front of this evangelism group, it's about 80 people, and there's

09:55

Bethel leaders in there and whatnot, and so I got up and I basically said, listen, we've been false prophets preaching a false gospel and making false converts.

10:08

And the whole, I mean, you can hear a pin drop in the room. I can't imagine why. So I said, listen, if you don't know the gospel, here it is, and I shared the gospel with them, and I had two people come up to me afterwards and say,

10:23

Lindsay, I just realized that I've never heard the gospel in my life. And they're at a supernatural ministry school, and they're being sent out to share the gospel, but they don't know the gospel.

10:35

That's unbelievable. So, I mean, what role does the gospel play at Bethel?

10:43

It doesn't play a role really at Bethel at all, because evangelism is all about power and experience, and power means, you know, watching in miracles and signs and wonders, and Bill Johnson says over and over and over again, if you don't have miracles while you're preaching the gospel, you're preaching a powerless gospel.

11:05

And what an offense that is to what the Word of God says, saying that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation, you know, and the gospel isn't a demonstration of, you know, miracles or signs or wonders, the gospel isn't, you know, this lovey -dovey,

11:26

Jesus loves you and wants a relationship with you sort of message, you know, it's a message and a call to repent and believe in what you accomplished on the cross.

11:36

And so, you know, while I was evangelizing one time at Bethel, it was right after I said all of these things in front of my evangelism group,

11:44

I was out evangelizing and I was talking to this man who was clearly very high on drugs, and you know,

11:54

I was sharing the gospel with him and explaining to him that none of us are good, none of us can attain righteousness on our own, we need a righteousness that's not our own, we need to be saved from our sins, we need

12:05

Christ to change us, and this girl in my group just kept saying to him, you're just so amazing and Jesus just thinks you're perfect, counteracting everything that I was trying to explain to him, and so when we were done,

12:21

I walked away and I pulled her aside and I said, listen, if we're not going to be preaching the same gospel together, we're not going to be able to evangelize together anymore.

12:32

And you know, she went about and did her thing and I did mine, but we definitely did not evangelize together after that because that's not the gospel, we're not perfect, and you know, we know that we need a righteousness imputed to us that is not our own, it's

12:49

Christ. And you know, you think of Jesus's own words. You know, Jesus, you know, as he's getting ready to go to the cross, says to the disciples he's going to send the

13:00

Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is going to convict the world of sin and unbelief. And so you're out there telling people they're sinners in need of a

13:08

Savior, and the Bethelites from Hogwarts are out there telling people, oh, you're wonderful, you're the bee's knees,

13:15

God just loves you so much, here, let me do a magic trick for you, I'll lengthen your leg and you can see the power of God.

13:23

Yeah, it's nonsense. Yeah, and all of that comes from John Wimber, you know, back in the day John Wimber used to teach this thing called power evangelism, and this, you know,

13:34

I'm sorry, but Bill Johnson is right in the stream of John Wimber and this nonsense, and over and again you can go to scripture and you can find, you know, examples in the book of Acts where there were no miracles presented, and people were brought to penitent faith in Christ.

13:49

You think of the jailer at the, you know, in Philippi, you know, there's Paul and Silas, and you know, after being beaten illegally, you know, they're doing something quite ordinary, you know, singing hymns, have you heard of this idea?

14:02

And so this guy is hearing the gospel in the hymns, there's an earthquake, the chains fall off, nobody leaves, and this guy says, what do

14:11

I got to do to be saved? And Paul says, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on a second here, I gotta do a magic trick first, because otherwise

14:17

I can't preach the gospel without power. You know, and then you think of the one time, you know,

14:23

Paul breezes into, you know, a pagan town and heals a guy, and they think he's, you know, they think

14:30

Silas is Zeus, and he's, you know, like Hermes or something. It's just nonsense!

14:35

And so they're gonna sacrifice sacrifices to them, thinking that, you know, the Roman pantheon of gods, you know, two of them have showed up there in the flesh, and of course when

14:46

Paul says, no, no, no, we're not, they decide to stone him instead. Yeah, so those miracles can get you in trouble, you know, I'm just saying.

14:52

Right, right. You know, it's hard to say that God, and I want to make this clear, like, a lot of people think that this is some sort of debate between continuationists and cessationists, and that is not the issue here.

15:09

You know, the issue isn't if you believe that all of the spiritual gifts are for today, that's a, you know, a secondary issue conversation that we can still have, but the issue here is that you're belittling the

15:22

Word of God, you're not standing on the gospel message, and you don't understand what it means for someone to come to saving faith in Christ.

15:33

Yep. That's the issue. And also, you know, they're not practicing, like, let's say that all of the gifts are for today, including the apostolic gifts, they're not practicing them biblically.

15:46

So if we took, like, the gift of tongues, for example, you know, worship leaders will stand from the stage at Bethel and say, everyone sing out in the

15:55

Spirit, and literally, automatically, it's like everyone psychosomatically starts singing out in the

16:01

Spirit, or singing in tongues, and where are the interpreters? Everyone's just singing in tongues, and there's absolutely no interpreters.

16:12

And Paul says that if you don't have an interpreter, it's better for you to remain silent.

16:19

And everyone in a church is not supposed to be singing in tongues at the same time. So if you do believe that all the gifts are for today, are you practicing them biblically?

16:29

That's the question. And are you elevating and exalting them above the gospel message? Because if you are, that's idolatry.

16:37

Yeah. Yeah. No, they're just looking for that next wave of the Spirit to surf in, you know, and go, cowabunga, dude.

16:45

Yeah. All right. So let's talk about your experience, you know, prior to American Gospel, and then

16:51

I want to talk about, you know, how does one, you know, kind of backfill, you know, what you're missing?

17:00

Because, you know, clearly you have, you know, God, through His Word, opens your eyes, and you realize, oh my goodness,

17:08

I've been deceived. And, you know, the question is, where do you go from there? But prior to that, and this is where, you know, there's some similarity between your experiences and mine.

17:18

When I was in the latter reign, I mean, I got whisked up into this thing. And so I'm in my early 20s, and at the time my wife and I were engaged, and, you know, we were thinking that, you know, we needed some super -powered

17:36

Holy Spirit power to kind of supercharge our sanctification, because, you know, we just felt like we weren't measuring up.

17:44

Of course, it has everything to do with the fact that we were hearing the Law all the time, and never the Gospel. And so, you know, we decided, you know, the solution was we, you know, jump into the charismatic movement.

17:56

And where we landed, you know, was a part of the latter reign. And at that time, they had said that prophets had been restored, and they were prophesying the future restoration of Apostles.

18:09

And the church, and I'm using that term really loosely, the church that we were attending, we had a prophetess over us.

18:17

And over and again, you know, they were very much pressuring me to receive this baptism of the

18:26

Holy Spirit as evidenced by speaking in tongues, and it just wasn't working, you know.

18:32

I mean, you know, and you talk about hours and hours and hours, and there were so many temptations to just say, internally,

18:40

I'm gonna fake this so they'll leave me alone, you know. And of course, internally, you're sitting and going, how come they have this thing?

18:50

And, you know, and I'm basically begging and crying out to God, you know, I want this too, and I'm not getting it.

18:58

And, you know, so you had some similar experiences. I mean, you arrive at Hogwarts, and the manifestations, you know, so -called, of the

19:08

Holy Spirit all over the place, and you want to be a part of it, and how'd that work out for you? Yeah, it really didn't work out for me, you know, and just to preface, again, a lot of people will say, oh, you know, she didn't experience what we experienced, and so she's just hurt and bitter, and that's not it at all.

19:33

I have absolutely no bitterness in my heart about not experiencing what other people have experienced, because, you know,

19:42

I've since realized from Scripture that these things are not God, they're demonic. So praise the

19:49

Lord that I didn't experience these things, but at the time, it was really confusing why

19:55

I wasn't experiencing what everyone else seemed to experience. So at an evangelism meeting at school one day, there were people sitting in a corner breaking out in what they call holy laughter, which is just basically uncontrollable cackling, and they literally would not stop laughing.

20:18

And I, just to be vulnerable, like, I'm someone that has always, like, had, you know,

20:27

I've struggled with depression, so I was told that, you know, if I could receive this holy laughter, then

20:34

I would have the joy of the Lord, and I wouldn't struggle with this anymore.

20:40

And so I went, and I sat in the middle of these people for literally 45 minutes, because I was convinced that this laughter, whatever this annoying thing was, was going to fall on me.

20:54

And these people literally were sitting here pointing at me and laughing, because nothing was happening to me.

21:01

And so there was that. I mean, I can't even tell you how many times

21:06

I prayed for the baptism of fire, and if you're truly, yeah. Yeah, you don't want to do that.

21:12

No, you don't want to do that. That is judgment. But I was told that, you see,

21:18

I know, it's horrible. I was told that it was speaking in tongues, so I would, like, be here praying for the baptism of fire.

21:30

And praise the Lord I didn't receive the baptism of fire. But yeah,

21:35

I felt like, you know, I kept asking for all of these things that everyone else was claiming to experience, and I wasn't getting any of them.

21:44

And so, you know, I went through these stages and these ups and downs of feeling like, you know,

21:50

God is doing this for everyone else but me. What if I'm not loved by God?

21:55

What if I'm not really saved? And it was mentally torturous.

22:02

Because I didn't want to even think about the fact, like, what if I'm not really saved, and, like, what if I'm not loved by God?

22:11

And, you know, it was just really hard. But I was in a class called Developing Intimacy with God with one of their leaders and women pastors,

22:22

Leslie Crandall. And she was going to teach us in that class how to hear the voice of God.

22:30

And I was told that because Scripture says that I have the mind of Christ, that I can think

22:35

God thoughts. And so, basically, I began to think that every thought that I had, if it was even remotely, you know, scriptural, or if it just, you know, didn't go against Scripture, that it was literally

22:51

God speaking to me. And so, yeah, I mean, that class obviously, like, brought just complete ruin to any, you know, anything left in my theology that was even biblical.

23:07

Like, I was just, like, off the edge at this point. And I'm saying, you know, God's saying this to me, and God is saying this to me.

23:15

And I took it to the internet. And I made this post about all of these things that I claim that God said to me, which

23:23

I was fully convinced at the time that He did say these things to me, because I was told that I could have

23:28

God thoughts. And it got around 100 ,000 shares. So, all of these blasphemous claims in the name of Christ are all over the internet, and it's super embarrassing now.

23:41

But, you know, what I meant, you know, unintentionally for evil, God meant for good.

23:48

And so, that platform that I received from that, He's now using to share this story, which is so crazy.

23:59

And for sure, for sure, that was a breaking of one of the Ten Commandments, taking

24:05

God's name in vain. I mean, to literally take your sinful thoughts and attribute them to God is blasphemy.

24:12

I mean, just straight out. And so, I mean, call it what it is. So, you know, and I'm glad that you said that they were blasphemous.

24:20

And yet the Gospel says this, that Christ Himself, He took your blasphemies on Him, and He bled and died for them, so that you could be forgiven and pardoned.

24:29

So, He became the blasphemer for you, so that, you know, so that you can be one who's kept that commandment properly.

24:37

So, yeah. And sadly, I've committed all kinds of blasphemies when I was in the charismatic movement.

24:45

So, all right. So, we've kind of sorted that part out, the God thoughts nonsense.

24:51

Good night. I mean, other issue, how many thousands of students does

24:58

Bethel have, and from how many different countries do they come? In first year, which was my class, there was 1 ,500 people.

25:09

And then in second and third year, there's probably 1 ,000 in each class.

25:15

So, I mean, that's around, you know, 4 ,000, but there's 9 ,000 people in their congregation, and then just at Bethel as a whole, there's over 60 countries represented.

25:27

So, yeah. I mean, people come all over the world to go to Bethel, because, you know, it's viewed as the

25:34

Mecca of Christianity. So, yeah. So, when they, you know, get back to all of their different 60 countries, and the

25:41

Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, the implication is you're supposed to do supernatural ministry once you arrive back as a graduate of Hogwarts.

25:50

And when you do, that means you're on the leadership staff of different churches around the world, they are.

25:58

And that can't be a good thing. No. I mean, people come here to Bethel to be equipped to be a revivalist.

26:10

And so, when they go back to their home countries, basically, they're expected to bring whatever this revival is back to their home church.

26:21

And, you know, they're expected to change their church culture.

26:26

They're supposed to bring this kingdom culture to their church. They're supposed to bring these teachings and this power to their church.

26:34

And so, basically, like, they're being sent back home to make their churches like Bethel.

26:41

And obviously, that's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a cancer, or a virus, or something like that.

26:48

Yeah. Wow. Now, when you think that your thoughts inside of you are God thoughts, that just sounds to me like a formula for playing the

26:59

God card regarding your sinful desires. When I was in the

27:04

Reign, there were people in the church that I was a part of who were using their

27:10

God thoughts to basically try to justify sexual immorality and nonsense like that.

27:18

Did you experience anything like that? You know, God told me this, and you're my soulmate, or nonsense like that.

27:26

No, I didn't experience that at Bethel. But I got a taste of that before I actually came to Bethel, which is interesting, because I was in this, you know, more apocalyptic end times sort of,

27:42

I would call it a cult. I would call Bethel a cult, if I'm being completely honest.

27:47

But, you know, this cult was also what you would consider hyper charismatic. And the pastor of that cult said that he was a prophet, and he told me that God told him that I was supposed to be his wife, and that we were going to move to Africa and evangelize, and then

28:08

I would be martyred. So yeah, I mean, I was preparing myself to die because of this word.

28:14

Yeah. Yay. Oh, wow. Okay. Yikes. That's frightening. And he was married,

28:19

I'm sure. He was not married, but he was old enough to be my dad. So yeah.

28:25

Okay. Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's, you kind of made the point.

28:30

Yeah. Okay, so you watch American Gospel now. You watch American Gospel, and the light goes on.

28:38

The Holy Spirit, actually, the real Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin, and convicts you of the false teaching, and the false practices.

28:47

So day one, how on earth does one get their bearings when they realize they've been deceived on such a high level?

28:56

Because, I mean, you ended up staying there for five months, but you had to quickly figure out what you don't know.

29:03

I mean, that's kind of the hard part of all of this. It's like, okay, I know I'm being deceived, but the question is, what do

29:09

I don't know? And where do you go to get the resources to fill in so that you can make sense of the

29:19

Bible, but also of your own experiences? Yeah. I felt like my whole world was falling apart, because I had built everything that I believed in on these truths, and these miracles, and power, and whatever.

29:39

And so when all of that came crashing down, it literally felt like it was the end of the world.

29:45

But at the same time, it was like taking a breath of fresh air. So even though it was really, really painful, it was like, you know,

29:56

I feel like no matter what, I'm on this narrow path now of coming to know

30:04

Christ for who He truly is, and that's all I wanted. That was the desire of my heart.

30:10

And so even when I was deceived, I wanted to know Jesus, but I was led astray by this false doctrine and the appeal of what

30:21

Bethel is doing. And so, you know, when God opened my eyes, it was really refreshing, but I didn't exactly know where to start.

30:30

And so I looked up every single person that was in American Gospel, and I started listening to, you know,

30:37

Paul Washer, and John MacArthur, and John Piper. And then, you know, I would stay up until maybe six o 'clock in the morning to study my

30:49

Bible. And I would test everything that I heard at Bethel against Scripture.

30:55

And the amount of unbiblical nonsense that I was being taught was so evident as I began to study more and more.

31:03

And, you know, so I reached this point where I was like, something needs to be said.

31:09

And so I started to go public. And, you know, I've just been learning ever since.

31:15

And so, you know, I would get one hour of sleep every single night because I just needed to know the truth.

31:21

I needed answers. And I knew that I did not want to be deceived again.

31:26

Right. And so I got my Bible, and I didn't look back after that. Okay. So how come atheism wasn't a possibility?

31:35

Atheism. I mean, yeah. I mean, I'll be blunt. There's some people, and there's a percentage of them, when, you know, they wake up and they say, this is just nonsense.

31:46

You know, they not only become atheists, they become angry atheists. Like, you know, and like, you know, we're gonna go on YouTube, and we're gonna destroy

31:54

Christianity kind of atheists. There's a whole percentage of people who come out of movements like that. That's their story.

32:00

How come that wasn't appealing to you? Well, because obviously it's all

32:06

God that kept me from that path, because I can totally see how it's possible.

32:13

And I can totally see how it's possible to just go completely the other way, and decide that you hate

32:18

God, and that, you know, you want nothing to do with Christianity. But I knew in my heart, and God convicted me to the point of sickness.

32:29

So I knew that He was real. I knew that Jesus Christ was God. And I knew that the

32:36

Bible was true. And I also knew that the Bible said that, you know, God has given me all of the evidence that I need to know that He is real, in Romans 1.

32:45

And also that before I had this realization, and I came to know

32:50

God, my heart was a hater of God's truth.

32:55

I didn't like His truth. I didn't really like who Jesus Christ truly was.

33:01

And my heart was completely opposed to God. And so, or at least who

33:06

He truly was. So I knew what the Bible said, and I knew after I was convicted that what was said was true about me.

33:15

And so I knew that I couldn't go that way. And I knew that I would be lying to myself if I even tried to go that way.

33:22

And so, you know, from that point on of conviction, I just sought the truth, and I found it, you know.

33:30

Yeah, my wife and I, when we had our eyes open to the false teaching of the latter rain, it was practically instantaneous, and it was the

33:40

Word of God that opened our eyes. And, you know, and we realized, I mean, like in a second, oh my goodness, we're in a cult.

33:48

And at that point, you know, my wife asked the question, you know, what are we supposed to believe?

33:55

You know, and the only answer I can come up with at the time was, you know, I think the Bible's true, but I'm convinced we really don't know what it says, because of how easily it was manipulated to make it look like it taught things that it didn't.

34:11

In fact, that's the skill that false teachers and wolves have that is very frightening, is this uncanny ability to take the

34:20

Bible and, like, use it like a balloon animal, you know. Look, it's a bunny. It's a sword. It's, you know, it's a coconut tree, you know.

34:28

It's weird how they're able to, you know, to manipulate it in that way. So, all right, so you're kind of backfilling quickly, and you're not getting any sleep.

34:37

Hopefully you're sleeping now. Yeah, so all right, so you're imbibing on MacArthur and all the different resources out there by the people who contributed to the

34:51

American Gospel documentary. All right, so I'm sure as you started speaking biblical truth in the context of Hogwarts, you probably were having your relationships cool down extremely.

35:09

Did it become winter there in Bethel pretty quickly, as far as your relationships with your other students?

35:16

Yeah, I mean, it was literally winter when I had my eyes open to the truth, so, you know, yeah, it became very cold, very hostile, and not from my end, but from, you know, other people.

35:32

And so, it was like, I was showing the film of American Gospel to some people that I was close with, and it was so strange to me that these people weren't having the same experience that I was having.

35:45

And a lot of the people that I showed were in this hyper charismatic deception for much longer than I was.

35:53

So, you know, I've since come to realize that, like, the deception is so much deeper the longer that you're in it. But, you know,

35:59

I was sharing all this stuff on Facebook, and I remember, you know, doing this public post to Chris Vallaton, who is the prophet of, you know,

36:12

Bethel School and their church, and it was about his book, The Supernatural Power of Royalty.

36:20

And on page 114 of the work, he starts talking about how we have been given the power and the ability to forgive individuals, cities, and nations of sin.

36:33

So, I can forgive the nation of Mozambique of sin.

36:39

And I asked him through Facebook Messenger if we could have 15 minutes to talk so that you could answer some of my questions in person at school.

36:49

And he said, no, that's not possible, but I appreciate your hunger. And so, you know,

36:54

I made the ability to meet with these people, and it was denied.

37:00

And so I realized, you know, there's not any going back for them. And what

37:06

I'm concerned about now are these students, and, you know, the people at their church.

37:11

And so I'm going public with this. And so I started calling out Phil's false teachings of, you know, his false kenosis theory.

37:22

You know, the false gospel. I called out Chris Vallotton for, you know, the blasphemous statement that we have the ability to forgive individual cities and nations of sin.

37:33

It's almost, you know, like Roman Catholicism. If we have that ability, I mean, we could actually solve the sin problem.

37:42

Like, just give me a few minutes. Give me a globe, would you? Let's get this done, you know? Right. I mean, and that's really terrifying to think that, like, that's actually a thought in their mind, because it's also so arbitrary.

37:56

And so, like, what if I decide that I don't want to forgive someone of their sins that day? Are they just not going to be forgiven?

38:02

Who is the forgiver of sins? It's Christ. So it's just super, super twisted.

38:09

But yeah, I went public with all of this, and I eventually got kicked off of the

38:14

Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry page, because I basically called someone out for a post that they put up about how they were laying in the school parking lot, and someone used their leg as a holy ghost machine gun, and was literally shooting people with his leg to get them drunk in the spirit.

38:42

So, excuse me for calling it out. Excuse me. How dare you? Pardon. You clearly are blaspheming the

38:50

Holy Spirit by denying that you can use your leg as a machine gun. Right. Wow.

38:57

Okay. So winter has set in, and now they're starting to tighten the circle at this point.

39:06

So, class time, you know. I mean, did people stop having lunch with you?

39:12

Were you, like, sent off to, you know, to eat your meals by yourself? I mean, what happens to you socially in this situation?

39:21

And what's going on as far as, like, you know, family? I mean, does your family think you've lost your mind?

39:28

Yeah. Well, at school, I felt, like, basically like a leper, because I was walking around feeling like the girl who is unclean, because I was being told that I have this religious demonic spirit, and that I'm a

39:51

Pharisee. And so, you know, I'm walking around, and it feels like everyone's looking at me.

39:56

And they're trying to avoid me, because I have this spirit. And so, that was really hard.

40:02

And, you know, eventually, I had no friends. And so, I was always alone.

40:08

I was always sitting alone. And so, you know, it was really difficult. And, you know, my mom is the only person who is saved.

40:17

And she has since also, you know, come out of the hyper -charismatic deception.

40:23

But at the time, she was still in this deception. And so, when I was telling her about all of these things, and telling her how

40:30

God opened my eyes and led me to repentance, she was, you know, she was not for it at all.

40:37

And she told me that I have the spirit of offense, and that I have a religious spirit. So, it was like, everyone was coming at me, and I was losing everyone in my life.

40:48

And I remember, like, it reached a point with my mom, where it was good.

40:54

It was so bad. And obviously, I don't want to go into the details. But like, it was so bad. And there was such, you know, division, that it was like, you know, for the sake of Christ, I have to be willing to love him more than I love her.

41:09

And so, I had to, you know, be willing to set all these relationships aside. But, you know, praise the

41:15

Lord that he brought my mom out of deception as well. And so, you know, we're fighting this whole thing together.

41:23

We're fighting for the faith, you could say. Yeah, I mean, it was really, really, really difficult.

41:29

And it still is difficult, because there are people there that I truly love, and had really, really close bonds with.

41:38

And so, it's really hard not to have those relationships anymore. But I still reach out.

41:44

I still, you know, say, you know, I offer my friendship. And, you know, this is the gospel, and I care about you, and I love you.

41:52

And that's the only reason why I do what I do. It's not for attention, or some kind of fame, or because of pride, or bitterness, or whatever.

42:03

It's not because of any of that. It's because I genuinely love these people, and because I want people to be set free from deception, like I was.

42:13

Yeah. And, all right. So, you know, as winter set in, you are a leper.

42:21

Now, were you required to cover your mouth and say, unclean, unclean, while in the hallway? Thankfully, I am.

42:30

Yeah, but you were made to feel like you were. I mean, so, I mean, and that's, isn't it so funny?

42:36

They immediately go to, you have a religious spirit. You have, you know. And so, another aspect of this, when

42:43

I was in the Latter Rain Movement, deliverance and inner healing ministry was a big thing.

42:49

The book, Pigs in the Parlor, was kind of our text. You know, so if you have a religious spirit,

42:56

I mean, the only thing that you could do, you know, in their way of thinking, would be to submit yourselves to be delivered of this religious spirit.

43:05

Was there any pressure along those lines for that to happen to you? Honestly, no.

43:11

There wasn't. It was really, you know, we met, and I met with the leaders of the school, not

43:19

Chris Valiton or Bill, but I met with a few leaders from the school, and they figured out really, really quick that they weren't going to fool me.

43:30

And so, they were really just trying to set me up. They didn't think that they were going to be able to take me through any sort of special prayer or so -so or whatever to try to, you know, deliver me from some kind of demon, because I think that they realized that I saw right through that.

43:50

But for some people who, you know, are questioning things, they'll go through what's called a sozo.

43:58

And everyone actually was supposed to go through a sozo before their mission trips.

44:04

We all have a mission trip that we go on in first year. And so, I was going to be going to Taiwan, and I was going to go through the sozo, and everyone on my team was going to go through the sozo.

44:17

And it's basically, you know, a counseling session where they take you through this encounter of meeting the

44:27

Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and mending any brokenness that you might have in your relationship with anyone in the

44:35

Trinity. And very, very, very strange. But I actually got kicked out before I, you know, was going to Taiwan, and they kept all of my money.

44:47

And they would not refund it. So, yay! But yeah, sozo is not good, but thankfully

44:54

I never went through it. Okay. All right. So, they kick you out for being dishonorable.

45:01

That's in March of this year. And as of the time we're recording this, it's near the end of May.

45:09

So, you got March, April, May, just a few months. So, how does one pick up the pieces and kind of put things back together after having so many different relationships, your whole religion, your relationship with God and others just smashed to pieces by, you know, the

45:33

Word, and the real work of the Holy Spirit? How does one begin to rebuild in a situation like this?

45:40

Yeah. The number one piece of advice, and, you know, it's not going to be mind -blowing, but it's the best advice anyone ever gave me.

45:50

And I was trying to avoid church for a while after this happened because, you know,

45:57

I didn't want to be deceived again, and I didn't know at the time how to find a biblical church. And I was also being forced to go to Bethel.

46:06

So, when I finally got kicked out and moved home, I realized that I needed to get planted in a biblical church, but I didn't really know where to look and where to start.

46:22

But someone actually sent me a website called Nine Marks Church Search, and there's churches in everyone's area, as long as the churches applying are approved, that meet these nine marks of biblical criteria for what would be considered a biblical church.

46:44

And so, I found a church. I go to a church just, you know, here in Youngstown, and it's so refreshing to be in a church body where, you know, we're praying for one another, we're strengthening one another, we're growing in, you know, in knowledge of what the

47:02

Word says, we're worshiping together. And, you know, what I would really just encourage someone to do is, apart from your own personal time in Scripture, which is super important, apart from your own personal time in prayer and worship and all of that, you need community.

47:19

You need community to be able to hold you up when you can't hold yourself up, to be able to strengthen you and to pray for you, and, you know, to be a family to you.

47:31

And so, yeah, community is super, super important, just the gathering and meeting of God's people.

47:39

And, you know, it really convinced me when I read in Hebrews where, you know, the writer of Hebrews says that we should not forsake our assembling together like some make the habit of doing.

47:51

We're supposed to meet with each other for a reason, and, you know, especially after you come out of something like this, you need the body of Christ, the true body of Christ, to, you know, help strengthen you and get you back up on your feet.

48:06

So. Yeah. And now, so does your pastor recognize that what you've been through is pretty harrowing?

48:14

Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah, because this is where those pastors watching, you know, if you end up getting, you know, somebody attending your church who watched the

48:28

American Gospel documentary or has been a listener to Fighting for the Faith or, you know, a listener to other resources where they've had their eyes open and they've been deceived, they're going to come to you wounded, and they're going to come to you asking a lot of questions.

48:42

One of the things I have found, even in good churches, is that pastors can be threatened by questions.

48:49

And, you know, somebody like you coming out of Hogwarts, you're going to have a lot of questions.

48:55

And so you need a pastor who's going to be willing to take some high and inside fastballs aimed at his head, you know.

49:03

So your pastor is able to do that for you. Yeah. I mean, he's such a blessing, and, you know,

49:12

I've asked him, you know, 5 ,000 questions, and he's just so patient. And so it's really been just such a blessing from God to have a pastor like that.

49:23

But yeah, I mean, I want pastors to know, like, people who are coming out of this movement are so hungry and really just want to know the truth.

49:34

And so for pastors who do take the time to sit down with us and help us work through these issues and through this deception, we appreciate you, and we really, really need you.

49:47

So yeah. Yeah. So my admonition to you pastors out there, get over your fear of questions.

49:55

Get over it, because your fear of questions looks like you're hiding something, you know, somebody who's been deceived.

50:01

It's like, eh, maybe I need to move on, because I asked him a question, and boom! Yeah, you know, just, you know, our job as pastors is to disciple, and that is an interactive experience, which means people need to ask a lot of questions, especially if they've come out of something like this.

50:20

So it sounds like, you know, you're grounded at the moment. You've backfilled everything that you needed to backfill in the moment, and the only thing you had to sacrifice was sleep and all your relationships.

50:32

That's great. So, you know,

50:39

I mean, so anybody who's, you know, kind of riding the fence, thinking, you know, I know

50:44

I'm in a bad church, I know I'm being deceived, but I don't know what to do. I mean, what would be your advice to them in a situation like that?

50:53

Because so many people, it's not a matter of whether or not Christ has opened their eyes, it's that He has.

51:00

And now, you know, they're kind of counting their costs, they're looking at, you know, what's going to happen, my parents are going to disown me, my friend, all my entire friend network is going to disappear,

51:10

I'm going to be ostracized, you know, and so they have a, let's just say, they're afraid to make that next step, and the whole time that they're now, now they're just walking through the motions, because they know they're being deceived, so they're not really being pastored, taken care of, fed

51:29

God's Word in any biblical sense at all, and so they're kind of in agony and not knowing what to do.

51:40

I mean, what would you advise somebody who's in that situation? Yeah.

51:48

It's really hard, and it's a lot easier said than done, but I think that to be able to step out from movements like this, you need just faith and trust in Christ, and you know,

52:08

I had to really trust God in all of the decisions that I made, and with every decision that I made, you know,

52:16

I had to count the costs, and you know, so every single time I said something or I spoke out,

52:22

I realized, yeah, I'm probably going to lose two more friends for this, but Christ is so much more precious to me, and so really just getting to a point where you're grieved by your own idolatry, and just being, like, really blunt, like, anything that is more precious to us than Christ is idolatrous, and that's not to be unloving or mean or outwardly, you know, intentionally offensive, but it's true, and so we're constantly desiring to grow and love for Christ and hatred for our sin, and so coming out of something like this is super difficult, but it will cost you everything, and so I don't have a ton of comforting words to give someone if I'm just being truthful, because there's going to be a lot of moments where there's no tangible comfort other than the

53:29

Word of God, and knowing that, you know, Christ is for you.

53:36

Yeah, and I would even point out that Scripture is actually quite clear on this. Christ Himself is clear on this, that confessing

53:43

Him, believing Him, truly trusting in Him will result in families being divided against themselves.

53:50

Father against son, mother against daughter, you know, mother -in -law against, you know, you know, against son.

53:56

It's just the list goes on and on, and then you think of that one fellow who says, Jesus, I'll follow you wherever you go, but let me go first bury my dad.

54:04

Right. You know, and, you know, in a situation like that, you can see that they're breaking the first commandment.

54:09

You will have no other gods, and so we, you know, a good way to put it is, let's call it what that is.

54:17

That is idolatry. You're looking to those things for your good rather than to Christ, and so you've made those things, you know, those people, your connections, your whatever, you've made that into your

54:31

God. That calls for repentance, and when your hands are completely stripped of all of these things, and you have empty hands, it's fascinating how

54:42

Christ, King of kings and Lord of lords, knows that it is not good that you are alone, and he will begin to put back into your hands relationships and people who now, rather than pull you away from Christ, will encourage you and be counterparts within the body of Christ for building you up, and taking care of, you know, your differing needs, and you'll even have a role within the body of Christ to serve, you know, as yourself.

55:13

So, and you don't have to have that thorny thing of wondering, is what I'm believing or what they're doing flim -flam and nonsense, you know, so.

55:22

Right. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Lindsay, I want to thank you for your time and for coming on a

55:30

Fighting for the Faith, and we will continue to pray for you as Christ continues to kind of sort everything out as you're, you know, trying to figure out how this all works together, and of course, one of the things you've said a few times was, you don't ever want to be deceived again, and I truly understand that, and at the same time, you have a heart for reaching out to people who are deceived, you know, it's, you know, you have your own

55:55

YouTube channel, you and I have talked, I'm trying to, you know, convince you maybe a better place to record your

56:00

YouTube videos would not be in your car, but... Yeah, I'm not going to be recording in my car anymore.

56:06

Yay! That's my small contribution. But one thing

56:12

I've noticed about your videos is you do your homework, and before you put a video together, you're scouring the internet, getting everything, all your ducks quacking in a row, and, you know, it seems to me like you're doing a really good job of making sure that when you have a biblical counterpoint, that you're also making sure that you're bringing the right scriptures to bear, and so, you know,

56:37

I will continue to encourage you along those lines, because the power is not in us, the power is always in the

56:45

Word of God, and as you rightly pointed out, that the gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation, and so continue to share with joy the truth of scriptures, and warn people about the wackerdoodles out there, because unfortunately, there are a lot of them, so it seems like if you want to start working this part of Christ's Vineyard, oh, there's plenty of work, plenty of work, a few work on this side, so, you know,

57:11

I would encourage you along those lines, but... Yeah, thank you so, so much, and thank you for having me.

57:17

Well, thank you for coming on, and hopefully, you know, I'll extend, we'll have an open invitation, you know, maybe from time to time we can check in with you and see what kind of crazy things you're working on next, so...

57:30

Yes, that'd be awesome. All right, well, peace to you, sister, and again, thank you for your time. Lindsay, your

57:36

YouTube channel, is it just Lindsay Davis, is that what it is? Yes.

57:42

All right, we'll put a link down below in the description to Lindsay's YouTube channel, and as soon as she puts a video out where she's not recording in her vehicle, then you know that it's because the pirate talked to her.

57:57

Yes. So, all right, thank you, and peace to you, sister. All right, thank you.