Yusuf Estes on the Deen Show: Part 7

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Yusuf Estes on the Deen Show: Part 8 (Conclusion)

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So to come back to the Trinity though, nobody at the time of the

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Catholic Church taking over at 325, nobody could have sat around and read the Bible anyway. How are you going to read something that doesn't exist?

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What they had was some priests who had some manuscripts or pieces of manuscripts, copies of things that were even in the

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Kone Greek and so on. But they did not have any full complete Bible that did not exist at that time.

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If the Bible did not exist in 325, why do we have something like Codex Sinaiticus which is, well, the entire

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Bible in Greek from 325? Why do we have entire books by early church writers in the preceding centuries that quote from the

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Bible? Again, Eusebius just doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.

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The quote -unquote Catholic Church did not quote -unquote take over in AD 325 in any way, shape, or form.

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This is all just more mythology, has no historical background behind it whatsoever.

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It's just pure myth -making being presented on the Dean Show as a fact because the man saying it claims to be a foreign minister.

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So tell us, how at the end did this word come about?

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Well, when I say, by the way, that they didn't have a Bible, what I'm talking about is that the average person didn't.

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Because they did have the Roman Vulgate that was done by Jerome. It has a tremendous amount of mistakes in it and so on, but that's beside the point.

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Evidently, all factuality is beside the point because if again we're talking about 325, not the

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Roman Vulgate but the Latin Vulgate is translated by Jerome at the beginning of the 5th century, about 75 years down the road for the majority of it from when

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Nicaea took place. And the original Vulgate was actually rather accurate.

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It picked up its own transcriptional errors and its own transmission down through the years as well.

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But again, you see things just being thrown out very lightly and it's like Roman Vulgate?

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You mean the Latin Vulgate? And it's, you know, did Constantine want forgiveness for killing his son and wife but he hadn't yet done that?

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It just goes on and on and on. This word Trinity comes about as a result of the influence of the

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Roman government itself. The Roman government was considered a triune government because it had three bodies.

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Just like the United States has three bodies. You have your president, you have the

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Senate, you have Congress there, you know, and this all together is equaling three.

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The Trinity did not come from the Roman government.

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And by the way, the American government has three branches, the executive, the judicial, and the legislative.

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But the problem is the Senate is actually a part of the Congress, Dr. Estes.

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So that didn't quite work there. And, of course, historically the Roman form of government changed a lot depending on who was, well, after the empire was established and before the empire was established.

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And this whole idea, again, is as bogus as the idea that King James is translated without King James' knowledge.

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It's just, you just wonder where this is coming from. It just floats down out of space.

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There's no foundation for anyone to think that the Trinity came from the

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Roman form of government, especially since, like I've said over and over again, these were beliefs about the deity of Christ and the person of the

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Holy Spirit. They were held by Christians long before 325. And while they're still being persecuted by the Roman church, why would you adopt beliefs from a pagan empire that was persecuting and killing you and throwing you to lions?

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Anyone answer that? Will anyone challenge this man? I mean, like I said, I've seen a video from him,

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I won't debate anybody. So, to be honest with you, why aren't you

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Muslims saying something about people like Eusephestus? Why aren't you Muslims saying, excuse me, but this is not how you engage in dialogue with other religions, by demonstrating you have no idea what your allegedly former religion actually taught and believed and what its history was.

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Some of you thought at the first video that I was really overstating things by talking about someone who couldn't tell the difference between a cat and a dog.

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Now you see I wasn't making things up at all. I may have been understating things just a little bit.

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This is taken right from the Roman government. The Roman government also had three to make up their one body.

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And they were all in unison on their decisions. You follow? So when the

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Roman government takes over, they want to have this to remain in the church which they had had before.

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So this was why there was an emphasis and a real push to make sure it stayed. But the real problem in the early days wasn't over so much as whether God was one, two or three.

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The real problem was over the issue of what was the nature of Jesus. Was he

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God? Was he man? Was he man God or God man? Was he born?

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Was he created? Was he always? And they would get into that because if you didn't say he was always, you were a blasphemer.

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According to some of course. And then another thing comes up, a passage in the Bible talking about the spirit.

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That the blasphemy is that you say anything against the spirit. The spirit is essentially a part of the deity or something at that stage.

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So this becomes an issue that gets so big and so distorted. And over the years, people just say, look, just believe it.

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Just have faith. Let it go. God is one, but you know, he has these three parts or he's like three things at one time.

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And you know, like for instance, I can be a father and I can be a brother. I can be a son all at the same time.

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True? Of course, I could also be, I could be father, brother, son, grandfather, uncle, cousin.

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So it wouldn't be limited. And I really think that when people start using these kinds of examples.

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And especially trying to compare God to a human or anything else that he created. I think they're way off track.

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It is painfully obvious that the one who is way off track is Eusebius. Because it is very clear even from the examples that he just gave.

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That he does not understand the trinity and has never understood the trinity. And once again, to the

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Muslims in the audience. If you encounter a former

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Muslim who in giving examples of Muslim belief.

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Could not differentiate between the various sects of Islam. Or actually could not differentiate between those groups that you would call cults.

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Or non -Islamic groups. And just lumped them all together. And showed no knowledge of where the dividing lines were between them.

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And what the difference between orthodox and non -orthodox Islam is. Would you have a great respect for that individual?

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Would you think that his conversion had any meaningful weight? Once again, the examples he gave were not even orthodox.

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He doesn't seem to understand the difference between modalism and trinitarianism. And so here we have this type of argumentation.

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Very, very commonly presented as I've been doing this series. As I've seen Muslims commenting on the videos.

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It's like they're sitting there like this. I can't hear you. I'm just going to keep repeating. 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 3.

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That doesn't make any sense. Even though we keep saying it's not 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 3. 1 being 3 persons.

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It's not 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 3. 1 what? 3 who's? You may not believe that.

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You may not accept it. But at least you have to understand that we believe. Yusuf Estes does not understand that.

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Does not know that. And one must ask why. Given the background that he claims for himself.

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The best thing is to consider what Allah told us in the Quran. Allah told us and he told us about Trinity in the

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Quran. That's why I said it's not in the Bible but it's in the Quran. Tell the

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Christians not to say 3. It's clearly what Allah says to us.

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Because God is one. There's only one God. And he doesn't have any partners. Finished.

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And indeed may I suggest to you that this is one of the main reasons. You should not believe that the Quran is in fact the word of Allah.

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Because no matter what you say about Muhammad. And Muhammad's understanding of anything.

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Allah knew what the doctrine of the Trinity was. At the beginning of the 7th century.

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All of that was past history. The definition was clear. But the

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Quran doesn't seem to understand it. Whoever wrote the Quran does not understand the doctrine of the

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Trinity. Gives clear indication of a very warped understanding. Of what the

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Trinity is. Someone says do not say 3. 3 what? If Allah can communicate. Then why didn't he say do not say 3 persons.

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And only one being. There is no evidence the writer of the Quran even understood what the doctrine was.