April 12, 2021 Show with David Miller on “For Who Has Despised the Day of Small Things? Encouragement for Undershepherds of Tiny Flocks”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 12th day of April 2021 and I'm thrilled to have back on the program a very dear brother in Christ who is frequently featured as a speaker on the roster at the annual

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G3 conference in Atlanta Georgia and I will be heading down there again this

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September for the Atlanta Georgia conference G3 conference from September 30th through October 2nd and David Miller is one of the speakers again and always one of my favorite speakers he is an active member of Tumbling Shoals Baptist Church in Arkansas and the president and founder of Line Upon Line Ministries who suffers from a degenerative muscular disease called peroneal muscular atrophy while still remaining to be in the opinion of many one of the most powerful preachers today from his wheelchair and today we are going to be addressing for who has despised the day of small things encouragement for under shepherds of tiny flocks and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio David Miller Thank you brother

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Chris thanks so much for allowing me to be with you again No it's always a pleasure to have you on the program can you tell our listeners something about Tumbling Shoals Baptist Church in Tumbling Shoals Arkansas where you are a member

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Well Tumbling Shoals is in Cleburne County we have about 25 ,000 people in the entire county my wife and I have lived in Heber Springs for 50 years and Tumbling Shoals is a community north of our town about five miles and it's separated from Heber Springs by Greer's Ferry Lake and the

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Little Red River which by the way the Little Red River is one of the most famous rainbow trout streams in the world we hold the world record for German brown

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Wow that's a coincidence because I have heard I don't know where it is in the ranking but I've heard that where I live right now since 2014

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Carlisle Pennsylvania happens to be a beloved spot for trout fishing as well and I saw it verified on the

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I believe it was on the county website or something but I can't remember exactly where I saw it verified but Jimmy Carter the former president of the

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United States back in the 1980s apparently he's an avid at least he was an avid trout fisherman and Carlisle Pennsylvania was one of his favorite stops

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Well how about that probably owing to no other reason than he hadn't had the privilege from God's good grace to visit in our own area

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Well he might include your area on his travels

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Yeah I might remind you listeners that the Lord showeth mercy upon whom he will show mercy and often be allowed folks from all over the nation to come here so back to my statements about Tumbling Shoals there were about eleven hundred people in the community of Tumbling Shoals much of the community had been taken in by Greensberry Lake and so some of us had a burden to start a new church in that community and thirty years ago with eighteen

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Carter members we organized the Tumbling Shoals Baptist Church and today we have about eighty to a hundred people on an average

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Sunday and are thriving under verse by verse exposition of the scriptures and gospel singing and fellowship with the

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Saints it seems that that sort of stuff is what the church is about and so we're

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Glenn and I were charter members and we take great joy in our relationship with the body of Christ there

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Praise God if anybody wants more information about this church if you happen to be visiting

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Tumbling Shoals Arkansas or if you have family friends and loved ones there or perhaps you're moving there the website is

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Tumbling Shoals Baptist dot org Tumbling Shoals I'm sorry that's plural

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Tumbling Shoals Baptist dot org and now tell us about line upon line ministries well

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I have been an itinerant country preacher however

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I used that title for about 20 years and I had made some advancement in my preaching around the country it seemed fitting that I come up with a new title more commensurate with my travels and so I changed the name to country preacher at large

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I got a ring to it yeah and so I've always been a traveling preacher

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I've preached in 40 or more churches every year for 57 years and I told my wife that I was starting a nonprofit organization for my ministry and I needed a title and I said

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I'm thinking about that passage in Isaiah where he talks about line upon line and I reminded her that Kay Arthur already had that line precept upon precept and she said well now that you've brought it up perhaps that third statement in that text would be more appropriate and that third statement says here a little there a little and tongue -in -cheek

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I said thou speakest as one of the foolish women and we laughed about it and I called my ministry line upon line because that's the kind of preaching that I aspire to reading a portion of Holy Scripture starting at the top and line by line verse by verse clause by clause explaining illustrating arguing applying the text of Holy Scripture to whoever's present in the room so that's what

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I've done I've majored on expository preaching and have had the wonderful privilege of having to give inspiration and encouragement to a lot of other preachers in expository preaching

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I mentioned that Tubman Shoals is just a small community in a rural setting here in the

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Ozarks but would you believe that we have had over 1 ,500 men from New York to California and from Washington to Florida come to Tubman Shoals for three days where men like Herschel York from Southern Seminary and myself would encourage them to do verse by verse preaching of the

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Bible and to give them a theological library not just a handout not just a few books but many books boxes of books sets of commentaries theology books word studies dictionaries to help them get started in studying the scriptures and trying to improve their gifts and calling from the

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Lord who would have ever dreamed that a small church in a rural county would have impacted that many men over the last 20 years amen well that's even more reason to admire the work that you're that the

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Lord is doing with through you and that ministry because an enormous megachurch or very large

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Christian parachurch organization doing things like that is not a major feat and yet they very rarely do things like that and perhaps almost never do things like that the larger organizations and yet you are doing that being a tiny ministry in a very small rural area how often do you do that well

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I did it for 22 years but with the COVID thing

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I didn't do it last year or is it on my schedule this year

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I saw a tweet last week and I can't even remember who it was from and it really wasn't to me personally but my name had come up in a conversation and this good brother said

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I attended expensive pastors conferences for many years and heard them say buy my books buy my books and one time

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I was invited to Tumlin Shoals Arkansas to a conference on expository preaching for free they provided my motel and my meals and instead of saying buy my books they gave me a theological library and it changed my preaching forever

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Wow I'm thrilled about that I take great joy in having been able to do that amen well my late wife back in the 1990s the early 1990s had an idea that every year since I had so many friends who were pastors an unusual percentage of friends who are pastors and possibly even more friends who are pastors than pastors normally have themselves she said why don't we instead of exchanging

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Christmas gifts between the two of us start having an annual Christmas lunch for pastors and and what you could do is not only treat them to lunch but since you have so many contacts in the publishing industry why don't you get some

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Christian publishers to donate books that you could give away to the pastors and and have a good speaker and I said that's an excellent idea and I have been doing that every year since the early 1990s in her memory now that she's going home to be with the

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Lord and every year almost every single major Christian publisher donates a hundred copies of a particular of a particular title that I select every year so in other words we have thousands of books that we're giving away and it's just a blessing to see the pastors light up and they say that they have very rarely ever if ever been treated that way and and I always have a rule at my pastor's luncheons and it was actually the rule of my wife my late wife that I was never to sell anything and never to have a hidden agenda or anything like that there everything was for free and I'm not

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I'm not saying that to accuse those organizations and ministries that do sell things at their events

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I'm not trying to say that that's wrong I'm just saying that and my little pastor's luncheon which draws about a hundred people a hundred men in the ministry that was her vision never to sell anything and I've been keeping that promise to her ever since every year

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I'm delighted to hear praise the Lord well how can people find out more about line upon line ministries

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I could not find a website for that okay so you could also email me and I will make sure that David Miller gets your inquiry if you are interested in learning more about line upon line ministries well as you probably know

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David well actually before I go into our topic

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I want to have you speak a little bit about the g3 conference this year and that's going to be held as I said before September 30th through October 2nd in Atlanta Georgia that was formerly being held every year at the

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Georgia International Convention Center but now is being held in a more family -friendly area in the heart of Atlanta where there are a lot more restaurants and a lot more activities and other things available to the attendees while there are breaks and before and after the session start and so on so why don't you tell us about how you even began to be invited so frequently by Josh Bice pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church how you got to be invited so often to be a speaker at the g3 conference well my history with the

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Praise Mill Church goes way back to a time when

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Mike Everson was the pastor and Josh Bice was a teenage boy and I kind of go over there and preach every year or two and I got acquainted with Josh and when he got married and the

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Lord called him to preach he moved up to Southern Seminary and he attended our expository preaching conference he and Carrie and we gave him a theological library and he and I became fast friends and he pastored a small church out from Louisville while he was a student and he asked me to come by there and preach for him and I did and he moved over closer to Chattanooga and a larger church and invited me to come preach for him and I did and then the

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Praise Mill Church called him back home and I would come by and preach for them on occasions and one day he told me about his vision for the g3 conference and I sought to encourage him to follow up and by all means plan a conference

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I gave him a few of my thoughts about what a good conference

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I cautioned him about a thing or two and gave him my blessings and he invited me to come and preach at the first conference and I have had the privilege of preaching at all of them until this past year and I had to cancel my attendance there because my dear wife of 53 years has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and in October or pardon me in November of 2019

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I canceled all of my meetings for the next several months which of course included the 2020 g3 conference but the

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Lord I think has given me permission to travel over to Atlanta in September and be a part of the conference again so that's kind of my history with the g3 conference

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Now here's my real suspicion about why

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I'm invited to the conference I think

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Josh Bice knows that country preachers at large are a dying breed there's not that many of us left and he wants the folks to be exposed to an old -time die -hard country preacher and I feel that deal for him and I am thrilled above measure to get to do so Can you imagine an old codger like myself from a rural county from a small church in that rural county getting to preach at the g3 conference?

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Who would I ever train? From all the audience they normally have in their daily activities serving

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Christ and it's such a blessing and a refreshing thing to see and if anybody wants more information about the g3 conference if you'd like to attend it and I hope you do and I hope you come greet me at my exhibitors booth there you can go to g3conference .com

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g3conference .com the theme this year is Christ is supreme over all and they always have a monumental roster including my guest today

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David Miller and also on the roster is Stephen Lawson my dear friend since 1995

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Conrad M. Bayway if you've never heard Conrad M. Bayway before you've got to take a train, plane or automobile to hear him preach he is an absolutely extraordinary pastor of Kabwatha Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia you were going to say something brother?

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I was just saying Amen yeah Amen is right and I'm sure that even though he's getting fairly well known in reform circles

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I'm sure he's going to be known outside of our circles globally as one of the greatest exegetes of our century in the not so distant future

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I had the privilege of being in the congregation at his very first American Bible conference the very first time he flew from Zambia to the

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United States was to preach at Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick where I used to be a member and he was very unknown back then at least in the

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United States or anywhere outside of Zambia for that matter and he was very unknown and it's just such a blessing to see how many major conferences are inviting him to speak such as the

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Shepherds Conference that John MacArthur runs and other major organizations also

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Paul Washer, John MacArthur, Josh Bice who we've been discussing who is the founder of the

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G3 Conference Anthony Mathenia, Hemsworth Jonas another absolutely phenomenal preacher that many people may not have heard preach

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I've had the privilege of hearing him preach right in the church where I'm a member now at Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania he is from the

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East Caribbean Baptist Mission and Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries, my old friend

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Joel Beeky who I've known going back to the 1990s Phil Johnson the executive director of John MacArthur's ministry

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Grace to You Nathan Busenitz who is a professor of theology at the

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Master's Seminary an absolutely brilliant young man who was my guest not long ago to discuss his book

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Long Before Luther and he's actually coming back on the 20th of May for another interview my friend

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries who's also been a very close friend since 1995 Daryl Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker and many others so go to G3conference .com

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for more details What I think about when

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I think about me being at the G3 Conference with those guys I think about the mule who attended the

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Kentucky Derby he applied to run in the race and he said

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I don't have any foolish aspirations about winning the

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Derby but I thought the fellowship would do me good

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That's great We have to go to our first break right now and we are going to be discussing

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I think a very important theme for who has despised the day of small things encouragement for under shepherds of tiny flocks if you have a question for David Miller on that theme or anything under a pastoral heading you can send it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N -G -M -A -I -L .COM Please as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter

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We'll be right back after these messages with more of David Miller Don't go away Back together again

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Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You the media ministry of John MacArthur I hope you plan to join me and Chris Arnzen host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for the

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G3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd

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The theme this year is Christ is supreme over all My friend Chris Arnzen and I will be joined by several of our other friends including

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Vodie Baucom, Justin Peters, Daryl Bernard Harrison Virgil Walker and James White More than 20 other speakers will be joining us and the lineup this year includes my pastor,

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John MacArthur For details visit G3conference .com That's G3conference .com

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Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021

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This is Phil Johnson reminding you that Christ is supreme over all When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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We are now back with my guest today David Miller who is one of the speakers featured at this year's

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G3 conference and he is quite frequently featured as a speaker on the roster there at G3 one of the best of the speakers one of my favorite of the preachers and it's interesting that you brought up the fact that Josh Bice you believe chose you to be a speaker there because you are of a dying breed of old country preachers and that was actually the theme of our discussion the last time you were a guest here remember that?

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Yes and so by the way I know that the overall theme of the

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G3 conference this year is Christ is Supreme over all it may be too early to ask you this but do you have your own subtitle for that for your own speaking engagements?

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I have three or four texts that I might preach from but Josh and I have not settled the matter yet so I will refrain from throwing out a title until I have discussed the matter further with him however it won't be a problem for me to preach about the

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Lord Jesus Christ Amen well as I announced in the first half hour of the program today we are addressing for who has despised the day of small things encouragement for undershepherds of tiny flocks if you have a question for David Miller on that subject and we will take any question that you might have regarding the

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Christian life and faith pastoral ministry etc our email address is chrisarmson at gmail .com

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter but that that text from which we have our title today for who has despised the day of small things comes from Zechariah chapter 4 but if any century in fact likely every single century of Christendom there was a despising of small things and that is certainly true today in the 21st century where even

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Christians very often typically have no interest in involving themselves supporting or participating in churches and events and ministries and other things that have a comparatively tiny audience or following in comparison to some of the enormous ministries and churches that exist across our landscape and as we were just saying before the break one of the things that's refreshing about G3 where you will be speaking this

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September is that Josh Bice not only has speakers that are globally known like John MacArthur he also has pastors that very few if any people have heard of perhaps only in reform circles or so on they may have a fairly well -known name but this whole worship if you will this idolatry of largeness is a very dangerous thing for Christians is it not?

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It is in my opinion brother Chris you know in the historical context of the passage in Zechariah 4 .10

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when the Jewish people are returning to rebuild the temple and rebuild the wall and reestablish the worship nothing about their efforts seems spectacular or compelling there were many discouragements and difficulties and distractors they said this temple will not measure up to the glory days when

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Solomon reigned they said of the wall if a fox jumps up on this wall the whole building the whole wall rather will fall to the ground

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Samballot and Tobai Gishom all arrayed their forces in opposition but God is sovereign and God can open a door no man can close it

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He can close a door no man can open it and for reasons known only to a sovereign

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God He chose to use Zerubbabel and Ezra and Nehemiah and the other brethren to accomplish what seemed an insurmountable task in the shortest possible time

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Hallelujah! Our God reigns He is not dependent upon man's ability

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He is able to raise one man up out of obscurity place him in a position of prominence and great leadership the same is true in the modern church often in Baptist circles

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I am a Baptist I'm a Calvinist I believe in preach the doctrines of grace and so I'm familiar with Southern Baptist circles and a

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Baptist family moves to town and they begin to inquire about the churches they want to be active in a church and so they attend the church and one of the first things they're concerned about is what kind of a program do you have for the youth tell us about your children's program they're not concerned number one about the quality of the preaching or the spirit of sacrifice among the people or the giving to missions or involvement in reaching out to the regions beyond with the gospel it's what can you do for us rather than what could we do to serve the

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Lord here in your church and I'd just like to remind your listeners that that probably is not the best way to discern the mind of God about where you ought to be in church granted in many smaller congregations sometimes we only have two or three youth and that doesn't always appeal to a family that's moved from the city where they had a hundred youth and went out to the

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Rocky Mountains on a snow skiing trip not to put that down I'm just telling you most

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Baptist churches can't do that they can't afford to do it and so people don't come to join a small church if they have options but I would remind the brethren listening that a church is a local congregation of Christ baptized disciples who are united in the belief of what he has said and are coveting together to do what the

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Lord has commanded and while various age groups are not always up to one's expectations they are nevertheless the

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Lord's church and he is the head of that church and we ought to seek to know first about what he prefers what he desires and seek to get in line with that and serve the

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Lord a small congregation is just as much a church of the

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Lord Jesus Christ as a large congregation is and I personally believe that even in a small church there are saints present with sufficient gifts and abilities from the

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Spirit to lead that congregation in full adoration and worship of our great king and savior

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Jesus Christ and if we don't do that it doesn't matter much what else is done at the church or what size it might be

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Amen and obviously there are good reasons why any particular congregation might be very small, it may be because the pastor is very faithful to the scripture in an area where the

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Bible is extremely unpopular and its hard teachings are even very unpopular amongst professing

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Christians Go ahead, I'm sorry I said Amen Amen, and it could be that the competing churches if you will, in the area the large churches, the mega churches offer so much that titillate and tickle the ears of folks that entertain folks and preach a softer message, an easier to swallow message perhaps just a

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Joel Osteen type message that just does nothing but build people's egos a church especially when you're dealing with the lost that very often flock in droves into places like that obviously that's a good reason for a church to be small sometimes we have to admit there may be bad reasons why a church is small, you may have a church that's stagnant and never growing because the people in that congregation are never out evangelizing it could be that the folks in that church don't want outsiders coming in to disrupt the flow of things

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I can remember a friend of mine was called to be a pastor of a church and this particular friend happened to be somebody who believed in and preached and taught historic

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Calvinism and the folks at that church were in majority really holding on to some very heretical notions of things and when this preacher was appointed as their pastor they started to realize a lot of growth and the old timers

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I don't mean old timers in age I mean the old guard is probably a better way of saying it they were getting upset because these outsiders who were coming in were in agreement with the pastor and therefore their peculiar ways their heretical understanding of things were becoming more and more a minority so they hated that and they wound up dismissing the pastor because of the growth ironically so there can be bad reasons for lack of growth too right?

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Well I agree of course and throughout the years

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I have seen those things that you just mentioned occur so very many times it really is a great blight upon the church that we can find so many reasons often such frivolous reasons for firing the preacher for causing a breach in the fellowship for not doing the things the basic ABC things that the church exists to do

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I wish it were not so but it is often we come to church looking for a fight and if we don't find one we go home disappointed

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I'm praying for a revival that would create a spirit and an atmosphere where nothing is done through strife or vain glory but each esteems the other person better than himself and he looks not on his own things but every man on the things of others he let the mind of Christ be in him and he follows our

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Lord's example of condescension and service and obedience but these same things

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Chris are true whether it's a small church or a large church large churches are just as prone to having these same illnesses these same sins and shortcomings as a small church so we ought always to be about evangelizing we ought always be burdened about getting the message into the regions beyond carrying out the great commission but if what we do at home does not honor

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Christ in the preaching of the word in the fellowship of the saints nothing else will get done

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Amen and we have to go to our midway break right now I hope you be patient with us folks because the midway break is a bit longer than the normal breaks we have in the show

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Grace Life Radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they air their own public service announcements and other local things in the middle of the show to localize

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio geographically to Lake City Florida which is a requirement of the

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FCC that they localize their programming and therefore we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials so use this time wisely write down questions for our guest

52:51

David Miller today and send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com also use this time to write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them and even if you can't buy their products use their services, visit their churches support their parachurch organizations at the very least could you please respond to the advertisers by thanking them for sponsoring the show if indeed you love the show and don't want it to disappear we absolutely positively depend upon our advertisers and the finances that come from them to exist we could not exist without them so please at least respond to our advertisers by thanking them for supporting the show and also as I said send in questions to David Miller to chrisarnson at gmail .com

53:43

chrisarnson at gmail .com give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

53:49

USA we'll be right back after these messages with more of David Miller, don't go away music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music music

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01:03:27

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio, and thanks for listening. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arns on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before we return to David Miller, our guest today, we just have a couple of very important announcements to make.

01:10:34

Please continue to pray for Vody Balcom. Vody Balcom, who is one of the speakers on the roster at the

01:10:43

G3 Conference, he recently had quadruple bypass surgery and is recovering in Jacksonville, Florida.

01:10:54

Please continue to pray that the Lord completely restores him to good health, that he is able to return to public speaking again, especially this fall at the

01:11:07

G3 Conference. And much more importantly, that he is restored to perfect health so that he may have a long, long, long future ahead of him, preaching, teaching, and writing, and blessing the body of Christ.

01:11:23

He is certainly a gift to the body of Christ, and I know that I and many people whose opinion

01:11:31

I trust would be greatly saddened without his presence to continue blessing us.

01:11:39

So please continue to pray for our dear friend, Vody Balcom, and pray that we hear good news that he will be remaining on the roster at the

01:11:52

G3 Conference this September 30th through October 2nd.

01:12:00

Also, folks, I ask of you to mark your calendars for tomorrow.

01:12:06

I've got a guest that I am very excited to have back on the show, a brother who has blessed us on a number of occasions with excellent interviews, and that's

01:12:21

Stephen J. Nichols. Dr. Nichols is the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

01:12:27

R .C. Sproul of Ligonier Ministries in Sanford, Florida. Dr.

01:12:33

Nichols will be joining us tomorrow for two hours to discuss his new biography of the late R .C. Sproul, R .C.

01:12:39

Sproul Alife. So I hope that you join us tomorrow for that interview, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time, live.

01:12:46

Also, folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to ironsharpenzionradio .com,

01:12:52

click support, then click click to donate now, and you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

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If you'd like to advertise with us, as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we certainly do need your advertising dollars in an urgent way.

01:13:29

As I said before, we absolutely positively depend upon our advertisers to exist because of the finances that come in from them.

01:13:39

Let me remind you also, folks, that when you donate to Ironsharpenzionradio, I don't want my listeners siphoning money away from the regular giving that they're accustomed to to their own local church where they are a member in order to give to Ironsharpenzionradio.

01:13:55

In other words, don't punish your church financially by blessing us financially. That is a command of God in the scripture to provide for your church.

01:14:06

Also, please don't put your family in further financial peril and jeopardy if you're really struggling to survive right now by giving to Ironsharpenzionradio.

01:14:18

That is also a command of scripture to provide for your family. So please obey those commands, obviously.

01:14:28

Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of scripture. But if you love the show and you do have extra money above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, providing for church and family, you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you have extra money that you use for recreational purposes and trivial purposes, well, please use some of that money to bless us if you love the show and don't want us to disappear.

01:14:58

Go to ironsharpenzionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now. Also, if you are not a member of a local

01:15:06

Bible -believing church, a theologically sound church, no matter where you live on the planet

01:15:11

Earth, I may be able to help you find a church. I have extensive lists spanning the globe featuring biblically sound, theologically faithful churches.

01:15:22

And I have helped many people in our audience all over the world find churches, sometimes within a few minutes from where they live.

01:15:31

It's amazing how often I have helped people find churches just minutes from where they live that they didn't even know existed in all parts of the world, or sometimes they knew these churches existed, they passed them every day, but didn't know that they were theologically sound.

01:15:45

So if you are in that category of being in need of a church, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail dot com, that's chrisarnson at gmail dot com, and put

01:15:54

I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to David Miller.

01:16:03

That is chrisarnson at gmail dot com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com.

01:16:08

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:16:14

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. That's chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

01:16:22

And Brother David, when you were speaking about praying for revival before the break,

01:16:29

I thought of something that completely ties in with our theme today, for who has despised the day of small things, encouragement for undershepherds of tiny flocks.

01:16:42

Are you familiar with the Banner of Truth book, which basically chronicles a revival that occurred in Manhattan in the 19th century?

01:16:56

The book is called Power of Prayer, the New York revival of 1858 by Samuel Prime.

01:17:04

Are you familiar with that book, Brother? Oh, no. Oh, you've got to get a hold of that book.

01:17:09

It's about a revival that took place in New York City, and it began when a tiny group of businessmen, a handful of businessmen, began meeting every day for prayer in the middle of the day, and it just began a chain reaction by God's grace, and churches all over New York City, one after another, like a domino effect, began having these prayer meetings, and what would be called a genuine revival, broke out across the city of New York, and many souls were brought to Christ.

01:17:54

So it just goes to show you that when a small group of people are faithful to God, no matter how small the group, enormous things can happen.

01:18:04

Am I not right? Praise the Lord, yes. Amen. And we do have an anonymous listener who has a question.

01:18:17

He says, My church is very tiny, and I cannot help but think that some of the reasons that it remains tiny are for negative reasons that you mentioned earlier on in the program.

01:18:32

How do we best approach our leaders when we think that there has been insufficient evangelism being conducted by the members of the church, and a disinterest or apathy in bringing in visitors so that they may be led to Christ?

01:18:49

Well, I think the lines of communication must always be open between lay people and their leaders, where you can freely and fully discuss these issues.

01:19:05

Another way that you can lead is to be more involved yourself, to lead by example, to genuinely show interest in neighbors, in folks who live nearby the church, going by to see them, ministering to them, reaching out to them with the gospel, establishing friendships over long periods of time that give you credibility and influence.

01:19:42

Constantly ministering the gospel is the word of the Lord, which is the incorruptible seed by which the

01:19:53

Lord brings the new birth. And so you must always be about that as lay people, evangelizing.

01:20:01

Now, sometimes people just don't do things the way we think they ought to. They are not as energetic and enthusiastic as we wish they would be.

01:20:13

And so we just have to be persistent. We have to hang in there.

01:20:19

We have to stay with the stuff. We have to keep praying, trusting God to help us turn the corner and move in the direction of a greater ministry in our community.

01:20:33

And that happens. Sometimes the church will just struggle and struggle and seem almost to die.

01:20:45

And then for reasons known only to the Lord, He begins to send showers of refreshing.

01:20:52

He begins to send flames of revival burning. And the old saying is, when the church is on fire, folks will come to watch it burn.

01:21:07

First thing you know, people will show up that nobody's invited. They've just heard about you.

01:21:16

Whether the Lord sends revival or not, whether we reach a lot of people in the community for professions of faith and baptism or not, let us be faithful to execute and implement well in the basics of church life.

01:21:39

Excellent preaching, great singing. I'm not talking about a performance.

01:21:46

I'm not talking about a show. If it must be a cappella, so be it.

01:21:52

Let us sing praises to Him who has redeemed us. Let us pray fervently.

01:22:00

Let us reach out. And who knows, even the heathen king of Nineveh said, who knoweth whether the

01:22:11

Lord will turn and bless us. Who knoweth of what the

01:22:17

Lord, in the very near future, will begin to bless your congregation and to send revival and converts.

01:22:28

Well, thank you, Anonymous. And if you are a first -time questioner, send me your full name and your mailing address, because if you are indeed a first -time questioner, you'll receive a brand -new

01:22:42

New American Standard Bible as we send out to all of our first -time questioners. Compliments of the publishers of the

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NASB, one of our major sponsors, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com,

01:22:56

which ships out all of the winners in our audience, their free Bibles, books, and other things they win when they send in questions to our guests.

01:23:05

We have Mike in Monroe, New York. Mike, would your guest agree that many churches grow in number and remain large due to the reality that there is often so little preaching that truly searches the soul in the area of sanctification?

01:23:24

Oftentimes the fear of being labeled too legalistic or too Puritan and unloving leads to a kind of antinomianism which pleases the flesh.

01:23:38

I have known many a Calvinist who left one church in favor of a less solid

01:23:43

Calvinist church over the issue of the law and its relationship to the believer in Jesus Christ under the

01:23:50

New Covenant. That's Mike in Monroe, New York. Do you have an answer for our listener?

01:23:59

Well, I agree, especially with the first part of the question, that often folks will leave one church for another and seldom are those actions warranted.

01:24:23

I think if a family is going to leave a church, they ought to have moral reasons or ethical reasons, or they ought to be able to establish clearly that the word of the

01:24:42

Lord is not being proclaimed. Now sometimes the dear preacher, the pastor, just simply may not be well qualified.

01:24:56

He may need further training. He may have other insufficiencies.

01:25:03

But after all, it's the word of the Lord that converts the soul.

01:25:09

It's not the gifts of the preacher or his outgoing personality or his natural ability as a public speaker.

01:25:20

It's his faithful proclamation of the Bible. And so that's a judgment call about leaving one church to go to another.

01:25:32

I would caution the questioner, because often when you get to the other church, you haven't been there long until you discover that they have some of the same problems, or they have different problems that are even worse than at the congregation where you had previously been.

01:25:55

So be careful that you don't leave for frivolous reasons.

01:26:04

Now obviously, when you're in the middle of one of these churches and you're having to endure, and you come home and you're wringing your hands because of a lack of worship or stirring of the soul in the preaching of the word, that's difficult.

01:26:28

I'm just cautioning your listeners. Church hopping, moving from one church to another,

01:26:37

I have not observed a whole lot of good that comes from that. Now if you have a pastor who just denies the scriptures, has moral or ethical issues, unwilling to preach the truth as it's clearly known and seen, then you know

01:27:00

I'm going to give you my blessing to seek a church where the gospel is being preached.

01:27:07

I would caution you further. Look into those things before you join the church in the first place.

01:27:15

Know something about the pastor. Find out about the prospective pastor before he comes to the church.

01:27:24

Know something about what real Bible preaching ought to look like and what it ought to sound like.

01:27:31

Make those judgments before you call the pastor. That will help you. Amen. Thank you,

01:27:39

Mike, in Monroe, New York. Keep spreading the word in Monroe, New York and beyond about Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio.

01:27:48

One thing that is another benefit, actually, to being a part of a small congregation is the tightness and the intimacy of fellowship, not only between members but also between the elders, the pastor, and the congregation.

01:28:10

Isn't that something that is often missed when you are in a much larger church?

01:28:17

Well, absolutely. In fact, there's a correlation. The larger the church, the greater the distance between the lay person and the leaders.

01:28:34

And you miss out on that intimacy that you just referred to.

01:28:40

And the pastors miss the blessing. They can't rub shoulders with all of the saints.

01:28:51

And consequently, they don't get that up close and personal blessing that so many of their congregation would bring their way.

01:29:01

It is true. Yes, and on the flip side of that, not only is there a loss of frequent intimate fellowship between the leaders and the congregation very often, there is also very often a lack of sufficient leadership and oversight and shepherding by the leadership of the flock.

01:29:27

Isn't that true? Absolutely. They hire folks to do that. They add more staff people.

01:29:36

And the distance from the top to where the people are gets further the larger the congregation.

01:29:47

Now, having said these things, I don't want your listeners to suppose that I am in opposition to a large congregation.

01:29:58

Not at all. I would that all small churches would begin to flourish and reach many others.

01:30:08

And I will gladly sacrifice the intimacy that a pastor might have with lay people if the church is flourishing, if people are being converted and the numbers are rising and the glory of God is covering the earth like the waters cover the sea.

01:30:31

I'll make that sacrifice. Won't you, Chris? Oh yeah, definitely.

01:30:37

Like I said before, we should not be... I mean, probably the larger problem is people who are proud of being a part or a leader of a very large church.

01:30:51

But there can be a pride, a wrongful pride, of being in a small church, too.

01:30:57

Because you think that you are in some kind of a little clique that has almost a

01:31:05

Gnostic understanding of the Bible that nobody else has.

01:31:10

Nobody else has this hidden secret understanding. And you are an elite group of people. And sometimes these little tiny groups that are almost cultic can be very stagnant and be an island unto themselves.

01:31:25

So I would much be much more eager to become a member of Grace Community Church, for instance, where John MacArthur pastors, which is a very large church, than one of these tiny little cultic churches.

01:31:39

And I think we also have to keep in mind that as large as Grace Community Church might be, and as large as St.

01:31:51

Andrew's Chapel in Sanford, Florida might be, where the late R .C. Spoul was the senior pastor, these churches are still not nearly as large as some of the false churches that fill stadiums.

01:32:07

Not that there aren't any true churches that fill stadiums, but it seems that more frequently than not, the ones that become that large, when you have tens of thousands of people there, they have no way of providing adequate oversight, and they are most frequently led by ministries that have a false gospel that is really there to entertain and build up the self -esteem of those visiting or who become members.

01:32:43

Would you agree with that? I very wholeheartedly agree. Well, we have another listener in Asheboro, North Carolina, who is a very faithful supporter financially of this program,

01:32:58

Grady in Asheboro. He says, Greetings, brothers. The fellowship that I attend is a small body of believers.

01:33:05

When I started attending around four years ago, there was about 30 adults. Our elders teach

01:33:11

God's Holy Scripture as Brother David does, book by book, verse by verse.

01:33:17

In the last couple of years, we have seen our Heavenly Father give increase, and at yesterday's service,

01:33:23

I would guess that we had about 60 or more adults. We must continue to feed the sheep, pray, and encourage for one another to continue to share the gospel.

01:33:34

We must also not forget that it is Christ's church, and we're there to give

01:33:40

Him glory and serve Him. Isn't this the biblical way? Yes, and I could mention many other congregations that I'm personally acquainted with who have experienced the same kind of growth, perhaps 12 years, stagnant, continuing to preach the

01:34:08

Word, implement well in the basics, and then the

01:34:14

Lord just sovereignly sends a season of refreshing, a time where He adds to the church almost daily those who are being saved.

01:34:27

Hallelujah for this. That's why it's important to remain faithful, be persistent in church life, and to humble ourselves before the

01:34:44

Lord, knowing that it's the Lord who brings about the increase.

01:34:51

Amen, amen. And I think those of our pastors who are listening, and also members of small churches, have to pray regularly, especially if they have a problem in this direction, have to pray not to be jealous of the larger churches.

01:35:13

That can be a very destructive mindset and attitude, where you wind up condemning everybody who's larger than you are, and falsely accuse them of compromising the gospel.

01:35:27

That's a very real and dangerous problem, isn't it?

01:35:33

It is. Let me speak to the pastors for a moment.

01:35:39

Yes, please. There are two extremes. There are those who have had the privilege of attending the university and the seminary, who've earned a master's or doctor's degree, and they assume that the

01:36:00

Lord will put them down in a nice city, in a large congregation with social and economic amenities commensurate with their academic credentials.

01:36:17

But if God is not pleased to do so, those men are somewhat discouraged and even miffed at the

01:36:28

Almighty. And then the other extreme has to do with men who, for whatever reasons, have not attended the seminary and not attained or acquired the degrees, and they are pastoring out at a crossroads somewhere, and they're having to work a secular job in order to provide for their families.

01:36:55

And they have heard folks say that they probably won't ever amount to much, and they buy into this notion, and they have this inferiority complex.

01:37:13

But I want to tell you, it's no disgrace to pastor a small congregation.

01:37:20

It's no reason to be intimidated because you don't have a seminary degree.

01:37:28

There's nothing to be ashamed of in working a secular job in order to fulfill your calling to pastor a local church.

01:37:42

It is God who calls. It is God who equips and qualifies.

01:37:51

Execute on that basis. Now, once you make this commitment, determine in your soul that you're going to be the best expositor of Holy Scripture that you can possibly be.

01:38:11

Study. Acquire books. Build a library.

01:38:18

Apply yourself. And whether you're preaching to six older women like I did at Snowball, Arkansas, with a treasurer named

01:38:31

Miss Ashley, whether you're there or whether you're over at Pleasant Valley in the

01:38:39

Pine Snag community, be the best that you can be. Preach the best sermons around.

01:38:50

And trust the Lord. If you are there all of your days, trust

01:38:55

Him. That what you're doing is what He's called you to do.

01:39:00

And that's all that matters. Amen. In fact, something just occurred to me as an example of when a comparatively small number of people set out to honor

01:39:18

God and bless the people of God, and how

01:39:24

God can use that in a far more enormous way than was originally expected or intended,

01:39:32

I'm thinking right of, or specifically of, the

01:39:38

G3 Conference. That started at Praise Mill Baptist Church in the actual building of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia.

01:39:52

And that conference, that annual conference, grew to nearly 6 ,000 in attendance.

01:40:03

And so therefore, that's when they had to make the move to originally the

01:40:10

Georgia International Convention Center and now to another location in Atlanta.

01:40:15

But I know that Josh Bice and the leaders of Praise Mill Baptist Church were astounded by this.

01:40:24

It's amazing what this little church, I mean comparatively little church, it's not like a church of 20 people, but it's a comparatively small church.

01:40:32

It's not the size of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. It's amazing what they have done, what they have accomplished by the grace of God, isn't it?

01:40:42

It is absolutely amazing. Few people have had a greater impact for the kingdom over the last 10 years than Josh Bice and the

01:40:57

Praise Mill Baptist Church. It is a wonderful story indeed.

01:41:04

How many thousands of people have been encouraged and motivated to serve the

01:41:10

Lord because of the G3 Conference. What a blessing.

01:41:17

Now Chris, may I ask for a moment of personal privilege and broaden the scope here for Southern Baptist Churches, all congregations and pastors of those congregations.

01:41:34

Yes, could you do that after we come back from our final break, which is a much shorter break, because we're going to that right now.

01:41:40

Oh, sure. And then you could do that, and I would love to have you do that. And send in a question now if you intend to, because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:41:48

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com. chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

01:41:53

Don't go away. We'll be right back with David Miller after these messages. So don't go away. Let us worship one another as we walk in the light.

01:42:07

Hello, dear ones. My name is Justin Peters, and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the

01:42:20

United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th, through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,

01:42:32

Christ is Supreme Over All. I'll be speaking there, along with over 20 other speakers, including

01:42:39

John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Votie Balcom, Joel Beakey, and James White.

01:42:44

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's G, the number three, conference, dot com.

01:42:53

Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.

01:43:00

This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the

01:43:20

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With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how

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If you love Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

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One such faithful advertiser, who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing, is

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Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission?

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air. When Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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01:48:05

Oh, hail the power of Jesus' name.

01:48:13

This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

01:48:19

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

01:48:28

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

01:48:41

Lord Jesus Christ. And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

01:48:47

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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01:49:10

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

01:49:18

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

01:49:24

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

01:49:36

Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

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Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

01:49:53

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

01:50:00

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

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Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio airing live Monday through Friday 4 to 6 p .m.

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Eastern Time at ironsharpensironradio .com. I'm Dr.

01:50:26

Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

01:50:44

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word and to enthusiastically proclaim

01:51:01

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

01:51:08

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

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For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church go to hopereformedli .net

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that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

01:51:52

Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

01:52:00

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:52:07

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:52:14

We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and together.

01:52:21

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:52:27

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit lindbrookbaptist .org

01:52:36

that's lindbrookbaptist .org And David Miller, if you could pick up where we left off you were about to give a personal word to Southern Baptist pastors that's pastors of congregations in the

01:52:49

Southern Baptist Convention. Small churches in the convention are able to send messengers to the national convention.

01:53:01

They can have four to six messengers. No church can have more than 10 or 12.

01:53:10

So it allows small churches to have great influence. You've heard the old song the hip bone connected to the leg bone the hip bone connected to the foot bone that same principle is true in Southern Baptist life.

01:53:28

What goes on at the convention is connected to the president. The president appoints the committee on committees which nominates the committee on boards which nominates trustees to serve on the boards of the schools and the agencies.

01:53:52

If we want conservative agencies and seminaries we must have what

01:54:01

I call the three R criteria for trustees radical, right wing, and redneck.

01:54:11

Guys who are willing to depart from the norm who have the courage to challenge the status quo and who will keep the schools and the agencies latched not only to the inerrancy of the

01:54:34

Bible but the sufficiency of the Bible. Help us rescind

01:54:41

Resolution 9 of the 2019 convention which has to do with critical race theory and intersectionality.

01:54:54

Baptists or any other congregation does not need anything to bring it alongside of the

01:55:03

Bible. The Bible is sufficient for faith and practice.

01:55:09

The truth is we don't need anything alongside the

01:55:14

Bible. We just need to read it and exegete it and preach it.

01:55:20

And if you could please provide your final words of counsel and words that you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before we go off the air today.

01:55:32

When I went to Snowball, Arkansas my first trip was in a log truck.

01:55:40

I have since had the privilege of preaching in many of the great venues across the land.

01:55:48

I want to tell you today that I have never gone anywhere where there was any greater sense of dignity or nobility about my business than when

01:56:04

I would go to Snowball and preach to those six women. It was a gift of grace.

01:56:11

It is a great expression of the mercy and the grace of God that you and I can stand before the people and proclaim the gospel of saving grace.

01:56:27

Let us get on with that task. Amen. Well, I want to remind our listeners that if you would like to join me at the

01:56:39

G3 conference that is going to be held

01:56:45

September 30th through October 2nd. That is a Thursday through Saturday in Atlanta, Georgia where there is a monumental roster of speakers which really cannot be found in my experience at any other conference being held annually.

01:57:07

Especially a roster that is long where all the speakers are theologically sound and extremely gifted.

01:57:16

They include Steve Lawson, Conrad M. Bayway, Paul Washer, John MacArthur, Hensworth Jonas, Mike Riccardi, Justin Peters, Joel Beakey, Phil Johnson, Nathan Bucinitz, James White, David Miller, our guest today,

01:57:34

Darrell Bernard Harrison, Virgil Walker, and more. If you would like to join me go to g3conference .com

01:57:43

g3conference .com and register as soon as possible. If you are planning to attend please meet and greet me at the

01:57:53

Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitors booth. By the way, I interview not only the speakers who are featured on the roster at the

01:58:04

G3 conference when I set up my exhibitors booth and conduct on -site recordings that will be later broadcast.

01:58:13

I also interview many of the folks that are actually attendees.

01:58:19

Your average Joes and Janes if you will who come to the conference.

01:58:26

I love interviewing them as well. So make sure you come to the exhibitors booth and greet me if you are indeed in attendance there.

01:58:37

That's Thursday September 30th through Saturday October 2nd in Atlanta, Georgia g3conference .com

01:58:47

g3conference .com and also don't forget folks if you want more information about the church where my guest

01:58:55

David Miller is an active member you can go to the following website to find out more about Tumbling Shoals Baptist Church in Tumbling Shoals, Arkansas.

01:59:08

That's tumblingshoalsbaptist .org tumblingshoals that's s -h -o -a -l -s baptist .org

01:59:20

tumblingshoalsbaptist .org and also find out more about the Line Upon Line ministries and can you give us your email address one more time

01:59:29

David so that folks can ask you about that? d -m underscore lineuponline at yahoo .com

01:59:39

and you can also email me and I will forward your request on to David. Well I want to thank you

01:59:44

David for being such an extraordinary guest once again. I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater