New Live Video, Report from Trip, More Response to Yusuf Ismail

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Live Stream Problems and the Atlanta Trip

And welcome to the dividing line on a Thursday afternoon. It's it's always funny the stuff that pops up right as the program is starting and this is actually a this was retweeted by Gary Sinise interestingly enough from General Electric and I just find this stuff fascinating.

11 .7 billion miles from home the GE powered Voyager one is the first spacecraft to leave the solar system and so Voyager one has has left the building and We all know what happens to future. It becomes eager.

And it becomes a big old honking thing and yeah, it's great beager. That's wonderful. Anyway. Some of you have no idea what I'm talking about. It's okay. You don't have to know. But it demonstrates that you're not really a true geek or a checky if you don't know who or what VJ is.

But anyhow, I thought that was rather interesting. Welcome to the program. First and foremost many thanks to all the people who made the past week or so possible. I Left a little over a week ago to head to Atlanta.

On.

Saturday evening I visited with the freakishly tall Todd Friel and we recorded an episode of Wretched TV on. Basically, I just did my new test reliability presentation that many of you have seen in various and sundry places and so I don't know what's going on here.

Wow. We are having lots of problems, aren't we? Not really. The video streams great, but our normal audio stream is now dead.

Why. Well it sort of? Conflicts with the other thing. It wanted the sound card for itself.

So what about all the people who are used to listening to the audio?

They're getting directed to the video right now.

That's not good, that's not good. We got to find a way to fix that. Oh, I'll work on it because there's this very new. There's people in other lands, you know, this is very new.

There's people in Ukraine who are not gonna be able to watch the video right now. We have our normal amount of Viewers that would normally be listening already. How about that? Okay. All right, so there.

Okay. Well, um, I'd put something up on the blog. Immediately a post haste like right now. Directing folks to that and we need to need to tweet something so I can reach all like I'm not sure what cave you've been.

Living in. But it's been all over Twitter all day to your.

Blog it does not matter. We need something on Twitter that I can retweet so that folks who normally would be listening You're going where'd you go? I'm on it. Okay. I'm on it. Let's do that one right now so I can retweet that one.

Okay, well we've got things going on, you know, and That's just the way that happens so hopefully we're still recording and stuff and we'll be able to put in iTunes and not leave those of you who are iPod listeners completely out in the in the cold here.

Because that's how I listen to so much stuff too. Most people cannot listen live simply because we keep moving it all over the place to fit my schedule. So anyways, I Wanted to Get back to this story there.

We did the program with Todd Freel. I do I do want to apologize for having not noticed the sewer roach on the wall behind me. Evidently for the last 45 minutes or so of the program. There was a very large sewer roach running about on the wall Behind me distracting some of the people down front I was not looking behind me.

And so I did not notice it and one of the most hilarious things I do hope someday there will be an outtake video of this because it does exist somewhere was when When the freakishly tall Todd Freel attempted to kill the roach.

It ended up behind it ended up behind his functional Hand cleanser dispenser on the wall. And then he got it onto the ground and then we have a wonderful video of Todd Freel dancing in the spirit As he attempts to kill the sewer roach and eventually over toward his desk.

You hear a sickening crunch. And the sewer roach and its guts were left on the floor for the rest of the presentation. It was an interesting experience, let's just put it that way and So we're looking forward to them making available the new test reliability presentation and the questions that we had and stuff like that.

It went real well real well then I was had the wonderful opportunity of visiting the new church where.

My.

Son-in-law and daughter go and my wonderful granddaughter Clementine and when Clementine showed up I just grabbed her and started walking around the church and I discovered that she is the most popular baby in the world.

Nobody cared about me, but everyone's going hi Clementine. Hi Clementine because she is so stinking cute. And so when time came for me to go up front to a speak I I just took her with me and I went up front holding a Clementine and that makes me look.

Actually makes me look like I have a heart. Everybody knows I don't. Anyone who has read anything about me on the internet knows that I'm a completely heartless automaton. That just rips people to shreds.

Right left and center just the fun of it. That's that's me. So it's a complete ruse that I would walk around carrying my granddaughter with me. But but I did and she smiled at everybody and that was that was cool and so anyway I then gave her to Summer and Summer took her back to the nursery and I did my presentation on Islam a pretty much same Presentation that I did last evening at First Baptist Church in Lindale on Wednesday night had a really good crowd there but what most of you are probably wondering about is Yeah, there is a there is a dwarf in the background.

We're gonna have to think about what's in the background now with video. I hadn't really thought about that. That was. What was the what was the story there? Barry and Katie gave that to me and what it's reading a book as I recall I don't remember what the whole story was about that.

But and then there's a picture of me and that knows that it's me and my wife and I'm in I'm in my kilt. That's my Buchanan clan kilt. The microphone. I'm gonna have to move the microphone to cover the dwarf.

Is that what you're saying? It's in the way of the picture. Oh, oh, okay. There's there there we go. There's not now you know, you can see okay good. Well, that's not gonna really do a good anyways. Let's have to move stuff around back there.

Maybe I'll just start putting different stuff back there to subliminally. Subliminally, yeah subliminally. There you go. Communicate something. Can you see the can you see the thing next to the dwarf?

Can't really make it out. Oh, that's that's one of my really cool flashy thingies. Here here now everybody can watch. Can you see that? Oh cool. All right. It's one of my little lightning Dookie whopper thingies and I'll have to have that on the future.

That's really cool and it's got it's got Mirrors on it and stuff. There's there's only actually one thing but then it's got mirror things on it and Anyhow, what was I talking about? Oh, yeah. Most of you are probably one.

This is give you a real distraction a real distraction. There's no two ways about it. They don't they don't have classes on how to handle one of those things when you're up I Do need to get a lava lamp.

Yeah, we need to get a lava lamp now I need to get one of my lava lamps in here. We should have a contest someone should. Someone I need you know, my orange one doesn't work anymore. I need to get a new orange lava lamp.

That's what I need to do because a blue thing and an orange thing. That'd be perfect back there. So I'll have to get a lava lamp Back there. It'll make me feel better. Anyhow. Actually, the reality is that is a that is a mock-up Shelf that was never finished.

I mean it's held together with these little tacks and we just stuck it in here because we didn't have any place else to stick it because we never figured we'd have that and it just sort of sits there and.

So.

Anyhow, what was I talking about? Oh, yeah get get down to something serious here obviously the primary reason that I went back there other than to see my beautiful granddaughter Clementine Was to go by Not the Dallas area.

I discovered Lindale is not anywhere near Dallas. It's a long ways away hour and a half drive As I found out this morning because my flight was at 815. And so anyway Yeah, I'll put a couple lava lamps on the ministry resource list.

We can put in the background. See if anyone buys them for us. And The reason that I was I want to do all of this is after the explosion of tweets From Ergon Kanner a few months ago claiming to be exonerated innocent purist driven snow Etc, etc, and which of course contained all sorts of nasty attacks upon yours.

Truly. It's funny My critics never mentioned just how nasty Kanner can be in attacking people who disagree with him and have exposed him anyway, I Had contacted pastor Tom Buck and because I knew he's in that area general area.

And I basically asked him to find a place in Dallas where we could do this presentation. Well, we've sort of theorized since then that the reason we couldn't find a place Is there one anybody in Dallas want to touch this is a 10-foot pole and now we now we know why?

That took place. I Cannot go into details right now. I don't know if I'll ever have the freedom to go completely into all the details here but let's just say that Certain folks showed themselves to be willing to do almost anything to try to stop us.

There is great panic in the Kanner camp as The day drew near as they realized that we were going to be. You know up until this point the information gets Kanner has been on this website over here and that website over there and a few videos Over here and a few videos over there but to put it all in one place and and bring all the strings together and Say here is what Ergon Kanner said, I mean the primary witness against Ergon Kanner is Ergon Kanner.

And though they have done their best to Diminish the number of sermons that we can cite that are still on the web. Almost all that stuff has already been saved to hard drives and backup systems all over the place and I put together about a Almost two-hour presentation That brought all this together was focused upon the primary issues.

There are a lot of things I could have brought up I didn't mention for example the fact that Kanner can't seem to pronounce the the word psalm. He says swam all the time you know little things like that that you know I left out partly because of time and partly because a lot of people will just pick on the little things rather than Looking at the big picture and the big picture was Ergon Kanner made up a persona.

And.

The persona was based upon untruth. That's just that's just all there is to it. The that fact is clear. It's indisputable if that was a disputable fact Ergon Kanner would be disputing it with facts and evidence.

And he cannot and will not do so he cannot face me. He could have showed up if I'm so far off in the woods. I'm so wrong. He could have shown up. He could have we would have given him time. We would have dialogued, but the fact the matter is he will not answer these questions because he cannot answer these questions.

The sad thing is to see how many of his followers even to this day will not even examine the case against him. All right, it's all been answered before. I just you know Ergon's a wonderful guy. I didn't you know they they will not it is the same type of attitude We see amongst Mormons and Muslims and other cultists to be perfectly honest with you.

Because they just Don't want to look at the truth. They don't want to think they don't want to be challenged they don't want to have to consider the distant possibility That in fact they have been deceived by this man that he's not what he has claimed to be and So I want to I want to Put out there Not only my thanks to Tom Buck who?

Kept the course and To the church and allowing us to do this and the folks that made the live streaming possible because we had lots of people watching live stream and and even the first 24 hours like 2 ,700 people had watched the presentation.

So with the live stream number and that that's over 3 ,000 people in the first day. I Had seen the evidence against Ergon Cantor. That's pretty impressive and Hopefully that will get the word out even more and to you know now people will have a resource they can direct people to when They see that Aaron Cantor has been invited to address the youth at such-and-such a place now you can say Pastor X of such-and-such church.

Have you seen this could could you please? Please for the sake of your people the sake of your being a shepherd of the sheep. Could you please? Listen to this and and get back to me as to why you would allow a man like this who is Unrepentant about these activities and these lies that he's told why why you're you're you know involving yourself in this way and We've gotten a lot of positive stuff.

I didn't see the letter that you mentioned to me he didn't send it to me. But but someone sent in a letter that basically said, you know Up until now. I always got upset with you and you started talking about Ergon Cantor.

I know that was waste of time. Until I watched the presentation and now I realize why you've done what you've done and why it's necessary for you to do what you've done and.

That's.

Really really important to me. We were able. I Spent a lot of time putting that together. That presentation together. I wanted it to be clear to be orderly.

And.

I wanted it to Communicate the central issues primarily and I think it accomplished all of that and I'm very thankful for that. We obviously are going to be once we get the local video from first Baptist Church Lindale.

We're gonna be dropping. Because what we did for the live feed was they had a camera. Shooting one of the digital projectors. The screens and the the projectors weren't all that. Weren't all that powerful.

And so the the video quality is rather poor. Yeah.

Yeah, I was a bit concerned when I first saw it, but you know, the point came across.

Well, and it's only gonna hear the audio. Yeah, then you can be able to make out what's going on the video.

You can clearly tell that's. We're gonna I'm told they're gonna get us HD video of it and then we've got the keynote presentation. Well, we'll drop it all in and make it a real pro presentation and then we will then put it up on YouTube, right?

Right, so we will have a resource that everyone can be pointed to. And that is what Eric encounter and Arlington Baptist College wanted to avoid they want us to cancel this thing and they communicated that very clearly and I can't talk much more about that right now, but I'll just tell you that You know, Eric encounter is already suing one Christian pastor Very clearly a certain passages of Scripture that he is not relevant.

He doesn't think irrelevant whatsoever and that he will violate with he thinks impunity so I'll just give you an idea of some of the stuff that's going on in the background in that particular situation and Maybe we'll be able to tell you more about it in in the future but the fact of matter is we had some real opposition to get over and we did it we Stayed the course.

We had to there just wasn't anything we could do about it. And So that material is available. So my sincere thanks to Pastor Buck and the folks at FBC Lyndale and We will see what the aftermath of this is going to be my hope and prayer is that so much Godly pressure will be brought against the canneries that they will finally have to come out repudiate the excuse sheet That is posted on Norman Geisler's website that that will finally be removed with apologies to the body of Christ for having inflicted it upon everyone.

And that there will be open acknowledgement of the facts concerning Ergon canners History that he was wrong to claim to speak Arabic. He was Arabic. He was wrong to claim To have been born in Istanbul and raised in Turkey and that all those sermons He's he he delivered saying I came here as I was about to go into university.

Actually came here before he was three. I came here I had having always lived in majority Muslim countries and And my father was a polygamist and it was practicing the Abraham lie and and I I had no idea About what Christians believed and I thought you hated me and I hated you.

How many Christian teachers did Ergon canner have in the Ohio school system? He was surrounded by Christians. He knew all about Christians it was a it was it was the Midwest for crying out loud in the in the early 1970s that was back when you could still have Christmas Programs, you know without the freedom from religion foundation jumping down your throat.

Don't give this. I thought you hated me stuff. It was a but it's a bunch of baloney and he knows it. It was all a persona. It was all meant to allow him to make this emotional appeal and sadly there's some people go.

Well, you know That's good enough for me as long as it was all for Jesus.

Anyway.

We we demonstrated the point without any question. We demonstrated the the reality without any question, but many people have complimented us. It wasn't a bunch of ad hominem. There wasn't any mockery there.

It was very very straightforward. The case is clear the case is well documented and of course Ergon canner could never Stand in my presence and defend himself against that information. But here is what I want to offer.

I am offering right now to Ergon canner and Arlington Baptist College, I will come to Arlington Baptist College. I Will make my presentation and then I will allow Ergon canner to respond and then we can have an hour of cross-examination.

Him asking me questions. I asking him questions. I will come to your campus to do that. Will Ergon canner do it? We all know the answer to that. We all know the answer to that but the challenge and invitation is there.

I Know why I have done this and I know that I've done it with integrity and with honesty. How about you Ergon, you know in your heart that I've done so as well.

So.

Be happy to come and do that. Ain't gonna happen. But the offer is there and anyone who has contact with the folks if you know anyone who goes to Arlington Baptist College. Point them to that information.

They may not be able to watch it on campus. They may have been told to avoid. In fact, we were told that on Friday of Last week on Friday of last week. They had a pep rally. Yes, they did. They had a pep rally in support of Ergon canner.

Well, that's how you deal with accusations of problems of integrity. You have a pep rally. There you go.

Wow.

Absolutely amazing absolutely amazing. So We'll be working on that video and getting it up and making it available to you a couple things I want to get to before we get back to Responding to Yusuf Ismail because the time is very short.

I leave Let's see today is the 12th, so I leave in 16 days. Yes 16 days from now. I'll be flying to to London and then on the 30th of September to In fact, I need to mention this. I Seriously am asking you for your prayers.

In fact if there are some of you who for example your church has a prayer list you have. Some intercessory groups, whatever it might be. I am looking at the schedule that has been lined out for me and folks for seven days, I am talking and debating morning noon and night.

It is without a doubt the most outlandish schedule that has ever been presented to me. I Have now six debates two with Shabir Ali two with Yusuf Ismail one with Bashir Vanya and one with a Gentleman that I know next to nothing about other than he has been highly insistent that he must debate me Yusuf Buxin.

There is no way on God's green earth that between now and the 28th I Can do the kind of preparation I want to be able to do. For six debates plus two unbelievable radio broadcasts on completely different topics on Monday the 30th I Mean if Eric and Cantor can include a discussion with a Muslim cabbie as a debate that makes eight debates That I will have that are actual debates.

I don't include the unbelievable stuff in my debate list, but they're fairly broadly listened to programs and and maybe I should just start throwing them in because they are very similar to formal debates, but The number of lectures I'm giving the range of topics I Am not sufficient for this.

I am not sufficient for this.

I.

Am I'm starting to wonder honestly if maybe this is why the Lord has just Allowed me over the past two months to be incredibly disciplined. I Am right now in the best physical shape in my life, I mean rich will tell you I am so lean right now It's unbelievable.

I'm riding huge miles and Enjoying it. I'm in really good shape. I am really good physical shape, and I'm wondering right now if that's why I Mean I can run on a pretty small amount of in in input right now and a small amount of sleep.

Because I've been pushing myself. Oh, it's so hard to get to that point and now I'm starting to wonder if maybe I know why. Because between the 2nd of October and the 9th of October that seven-day window aside from traveling 22 ,000 miles in the air I am gonna be taking on a schedule that I have never Attempted anything even I don't think I've ever attempted half this amount of material in the same period of time.

Not not in my entire life I guess I'm just celebrating turning 50 in a big way. So what I am asking you to do is to if your if your church prays for folks to please pray for. Those debates and pray for those lectures many of them are going to have to be You know off the top my head in the sense of drawing from 30 years worth of ministry now.

To not the debates, but a lot of lectures. They are on topics of I mean, it's okay discussing homosexuality in the church. You know it wasn't that long ago I debated Justin Lee and things like that. I obviously I can I can do those things without too much preparation, but obviously just just the.

The.

Amount of time I'm gonna be speaking. Well the biggest obviously the biggest prayer request is I need to be healthy during all this. I really really need to be healthy during all this and need to protect my voice.

There's just just no two ways about it. Or I'm gonna sound like Mike Lacona did in that one debate with Bart Ehrman if you remember that it was one of the most painful debates to ever listen to. It's it's just really very very very hard to follow that particular thing so.

That's what's coming up and so your prayers your support extremely extremely Helpful. Okay, this is a little weird. Okay, because now I got this thing. I got the eye the eye of Sauron over here. That's not that's what I'm calling it the eye of Sauron there it is.

It's actually a blue eye. But it does look a little bit like the eye of Sauron and then I've got the channel over there see the channels over here. So when you see me looking down here, this is where the video camera is showing my car.

Because people like breaking into it and breaking windows and doing other things like that. So if you ever see me jump up and run out it's because someone's going after my car but over here is the chat channel and up here normally is where I have my.

Well right now I have pocket used to be what was that called read late read me later or something like that there I have the next story. I'm gonna be looking at but over here is Twitter and Here is the chat channel and somebody in channel said I always imagined doc standing up and running around while doing the dividing line.

Why did you imagine that is what I want to know? You're a little strange just thought I'd mention that that's what you thought I was doing.

Anyways.

Now I can look at you people and go you're weird. That's that's sort of cool. That is that's a nice nice thing to be able to say. Oh Great. Yeah, you're good. What do you do focus in on my eye when I do that?

It's like that don't don't do that. No, that's no. I need to put some rules up for this. Okay. In fact, I want a button in here I can blank it out. Okay, I want just like I have the cough Buttons, I can you know turn my my feet on and off the cough buttons right here, by the way.

When you see me reach of that I need to cough. I I need I need the Sauron off button. That's that's what I need right there. We'll call it the the ring button or something like that. So anyhow, oh. What were you talking about?

Oh, yes, okay, I.

Do I.

Wish I had the entire letter in English, but I don't. Everyone's talking today. About the Pope speaking like an inclusivist and. It certainly Sounded like it. I mean he said. The question for those who do not believe in God is to follow their own conscience.

Sin. Even for a non-believer is when one goes against one's conscience, by the way, that's not a definition of sin. That's sin is when one goes against God's will God's law. And while the conscience may point to that sometimes the conscience becomes seared and.

So anyways to listen and to follow your conscience means that you understand the difference between good and evil. My conscience doesn't define good and evil. God's law defines good and evil. I mean here we're having to deal with this guy.

They talked about the mercy of God has no limits and. In one of the articles this is from the Independent in Comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation Pope Francis has written a long open letter the founder of La Repubblica newspaper Eugenio Scalfari.

Stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they follow their consciences. Respond to a list of questions published in the paper by mr. Scalfari who is not a Roman Catholic Francis wrote. You asked me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don't believe.

And. Who don't seek the faith? I start by saying and this is the fundamental thing that God's mercy has no limits if you go to him with a Sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.

Sin even for those who have no faith exists when people disobey their conscience.

I.

Tried to find a full English translation of the letter and I have not been able to find it and so I would like to read it in context. Because as I would hope no one would trust Fox News or the Independent or almost any other media source to quote me correctly.

And would go to what I actually said in the same way I Would like to see these comments in a context but at the same time I'm not sure how many times I've said it, but I've said for a very long time that in my opinion The majority of Roman Catholic of the Roman Catholic priesthood bishops priests Cardinals, whatever.

If you put all of them together in a room and were to survey them You would discover that the majority of them are minimally Inclusivistic and many of them are universalistic and It's been that way for a long time.

The problem is and and this was this goes, you know, we talked about this with with John Paul Ratzinger was a little more concise and accurate in his terminology. But you know one year John Paul will throw out a bone to the conservatives and he'll say something Really conservative and the next year he throws out a bone to the liberals and he's trying to hold this big massive movement together that really is not unified and so you got to throw stuff out both directions to keep people happy and and try to keep the middle in in one piece and You listen to what was just said here by the Pope and Simple question simple question if you had the kind of platform he has and you wanted to answer these questions.

Just compare the lack of specificity the lack of clarity the the the political correctness of What the Pope has said with the clarity force and biblical nature of John MacArthur answering the same question on Larry King.

Just compare him I mean when Johnny Mac gets asked that question as he gets asked that question all the time when he gets asked that question Is he stuck with this level of jibber-jabber? Or does he give an answer and the funny thing is I just thought of this the funny thing is John MacArthur answers these questions in the words of the Apostles of Jesus Christ and Here a man who claims to be the head of the apostolic see Cannot answer in the words of the Apostles of Jesus Christ.

That's a shame. But it's the reality and It flows from the fact that of course the Pope has not just a deficient understanding of the gospel. He has a false understanding of the gospel and Few there be today Who will say that and Who at the same time have done enough reading in Roman Catholic dogmatic theology to know what the Roman Catholic gospel is There are a lot of people who are Anti-catholic in their outlook but they are so out of prejudice and tradition not out of conviction that the Roman gospel is false because it fundamentally compromises what is really true and that is the biblical gospel and.

So I.

Hope I would imagine over the next couple of days maybe even the next couple of hours. The full text of this letter, which seems to be fairly lengthy will appear in in English and then we'll have a little bit more of a of a context to look at and I will try to follow that up.

I will try to follow that up. I think that'll be helpful now. Another thing. We simply must confess we have to admit That in Western cultures today and I speak of the United Kingdom Germany the Scandinavian countries the EU in general the United States Canada Australia if we live in those cultures and We believe That the Lordship of Jesus Christ should inform every aspect of our lives.

We are not like those who simply put the Lordship of Christ into one little corner. That's our religious life. And then we have our secular life over here if we recognize the Lordship of Christ has to be over the entirety of life.

We are now second-class citizens. We are second-class citizens. There are there is a hierarchy in our society now and There are people who have more rights. There are people who can in essence have us jailed at The drop of a hat and they have the right to do it and they've been given the power to do it by our culture.

Two illustrations of this from very recently. From September 10th Fox Sports fires analyst Craig James for past comments on homosexuality. What did he say? Actually, he was moderating a debate and.

He.

After.

Comments by the people in the debate said quote. I think right now in this country Our moral fiber is sliding down a slope that is going to be hard to stop. We don't stand up with leaders who don't go ride in gay parades.

I Can assure you I will never ride in a gay parade and I hear what you're saying Tom. But leaders are kids out there people need to see examples. There you go. You are not worthy to appear in the holy realm of television.

If you have ever said not if you even still believe it. If you have ever said it remember the San Antonio thing. They passed it, but they took some of the language out. It's still really bad, but it's not as bad as it would have been.

Remember the San Antonio legislation would have allowed this would have forbade the city of San Antonio from doing business with anyone who had ever Expressed what is defined as a prejudicial attitude about homosexuality.

So if you 20 years ago preached a sermon on The subject of homosexuality and gave a biblical perspective of it. You are out. You cannot be a part of our culture anymore to the fringes with you. That's exactly what they wanted.

These people do not believe in free speech. They do not believe in freedom. They do not believe in Liberty. They want your freedom and Liberty taken away. Unless you do what? You rejoice in their perversion.

You must call me good. You must bow before me and kiss my ring. I am superior to you and Our society has said okay.

Okay, we'll do that. We'll do that.

That's all right with us. Some of you may recall that I have twice now had the wonderful opportunity of Going out to Leicester Square in London both times. I went out with a young man who preaches on the streets of London and elsewhere.

I I don't necessarily like the phrase street preacher. Because this young man is more than just a street preacher. He's involved in the church, he's he's well-rounded. He's got he's got theological grounding to him and He's named Rob Hughes Robbie Hughes and He's been most of the debates.