March 23, 2017 Show with Jason Helopoulos on “Let the Children Worship” PLUS Jonathan Master on “The Sufficiency of Scripture”

The Program Opens With the Show’s Mission and Guest Introductions

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed when we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host.

Chris.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live-streaming. This is Chris Arns in your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 23rd day of March 2017.

Well We're supposed to be having two guests on today and one of them the first one has not yet called into the studio. So we're awaiting Anxiously for him to contact us, but his name is Jason helipolis, and I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly.

It's a Greek name. I'm assuming he is assistant pastor at University Reformed Church in East, Lansing, Michigan and a Guest blogger at the gospel coalition. We are discussing his book Let the children worship the second hour of the program.

We're going to have Jonathan master on the program. He is professor of theology and Dean of the School of Divinity at Calm University or Karn University. I thought that was an odd name. I thought it was C a L M and it's C a I R N.

Just another evidence that I'm going blind. Karn University or Cairn University. He'll correct me on the pronunciation. I'm sure in Langhorne, Pennsylvania. He's the editorial director for the Alliance of confessing evangelicals and host of the Alliance podcast theology on the go.

He's the author of a question of consensus the doctrine of assurance after the Westminster Confession and Editor of the God we worship. We're discussing the second hour with Jonathan master the sufficiency of Scripture.

If you'd like to join us on the air. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chris arnson at gmail .com. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to an early break because I have to make sure that our first guest Jason Helipollos is going to be joining us.

So I have to make a couple of phone calls. Unfortunately, that's the way live radio goes sometimes. So we're going to an early break right now and don't go away. God-willing we will be right back after these messages with our guest.

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7 1 7 6 9 7 1981 or visit solid rock remodeling calm that solid rock remodeling calm solid rock remodeling. Bringing new life to your home. Welcome back. And yes, we do. Thank God have our first guest on today Jason hello Polos and he will correct me if I mispronounce that any moment assistant pastor at University Reform Church in East Lansing, Michigan and a guest blogger at the Gospel Coalition.

And we are discussing his book today for the first hour Let the children worship. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron Jason. Hello Polos and Jason am I mispronouncing your name?

Helopolis, okay. I will try to remember that I'll think of metropolis and helopolis. And in the studio with me is my co-host the Reverend buzz Taylor.

And.

We are discussing this book. Let the children worship, but before we get to that I want to know something about University Reform Church in East Lansing, Michigan.

Yeah.

And is it an independent church or is it a part of a denomination. Yes, and for some reason the Reverend buzz Taylor's microphone is not working. Maybe you get a switch headphones. Reverend buzz. Yeah, well, yeah.

Reverend buzz Taylor my co-host is a member of a local PCH PCH Church Carlisle Reform Presbyterian Church, which is a PCA Church. Yeah, and Are you with us buzz? Is this better? Yeah, it sounds better.

And let me Announce once again our email address for our listeners to join us with a question of their own on let the children worship. It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. CH r is a RN Z and at gmail .com and Let me read a description of this book.

Jason helopolis encourages the church to embrace the important part children play in the life of the church and Enfolds the enormous blessing to be found in having them present in the worship service of the congregation.

He points out how the struggles are temporary Whereas the blessings can be eternal and let me read a couple of reviews for this book. Both of these men have been on my program. In fact one was just on day before yesterday, dr. Carl Truman of Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

He says in a series of short chapters Jason helopolis explains the nature and importance of worship and then offers Practical guidance on how to communicate this to our young people. This is very useful and this is a very useful and practical book which deserves to be widely read in our churches and then Derek Thomas Senior minister of preaching and teaching at the First Presbyterian Church in Columbia, South Carolina.

Who I have had on the program a number of years ago and look forward to having him back. Derek Thomas says in Jesus's ministry the disciples were at one point Indignant at the presence of children and this fine book Jason helopolis makes a compelling scriptural case For the inclusion of children in worship.

It deserves serious and a sustained consideration. Now Jason today you have interviewing you. Me who would be a reformed Baptist my co-host who's a Presbyterian? Is this the type of book that both reformed Baptists and Presbyterians or perhaps even?

Christians across the theological spectrum would be able to appreciate and make use of.

Well, I writing it from over to reach quite a now.

There is a movement that I'm sure you're familiar with called the family integrated community of churches. Where they some of them don't even believe in having nurseries or anything like that. They don't believe in the segregation of little children or infants from the Assembly at all.

Is yours identical or similar to that approach or is it somewhat different before its creator God? It's redeeming God in worship, and I think there's a now. What do you think the.

Typical evangelical congregation perhaps even typical reformed congregation is doing that would Be somewhat different than your vision from involving children in the worship services like for instance, especially you have Presbyterian churches that you are a part of that believe that children are By virtue of their baptism are genuine members of the Covenant.

What is it that especially they are doing or not doing in the ordinary? Gathering of the Saints that you think is lacking in regard to this concept of involving children.

Yeah, you know, I I think as I've chosen. But I think a lot of churches today written by his spirit and we do have.

CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York who says one of the things that I must confess troubles me frequently is when I am trying to pay attention to a sermon being preached and a child somewhere in the assembly or perhaps more than one are Diso being disobedient to their parents making noise playing Running around and it's it is very distracting from the most vital thing that is occurring during that gathered Worship service that is hearing the Word of God exegeted.

What is your response to my complaint? Am I being too? Fussy or is there something lacking in the parenting of these people who are permitting this with their children?

Well, and yet and yet I think many of us can watch a few banging. We can stay focused on that game I is but on the other end I think parent that you're having to take them out routinely and over time it will become one.

This is a reverend buzz. Taylor has a comment for you. Yeah, it seems to me that.

The problem that I'm picking up from the question is that it seems there are a number of times parents who Don't seem to understand When it's time to get their children out of the service. And it can be very distracting when they were making very loud noises and things like that.

I think that's what the caller is referring to.

The emailer.

Thank You emailer. Okay, but yeah, so I Agree, of course in our church. They do practice Removing children when they're making noise and that you know, I really appreciate the parents that do that but I think that I hope that there's a lot of listeners who Get it into their head if your child is being very disruptive.

That's not a time to have a little discussion with them or anything. It is time to get them out.

Yeah, I think it's on both ends. I think it's a congregation becomes a little more patient and can handle a little more rustling of papers and a little more fidgeting and Parents are all happy medium.

As much as you can reach it as a good thing for for the benefit of our children and the congregation.

But now in in your book though, let the children worship. You're you're talking primarily there about for example that correct me if I'm wrong, but. For example a youth group meeting during church services and things like that.

Where they're actually being removed for other like junior church, I think is a big one. So you would say keep the family together at least for that morning worships. Morning worship service. What about like evening services and so forth?

I think any time that the the congregation is gathering together for corporate started for this children and they're doing second. In a very and this is the major thrust of your book. You're saying yes, that's correct.

Yeah, okay. And what are some of the like the chapter contents?

And so the the book begins with just kind of a description of worship, you know. Why is it that the church worships? Understand well. CJ and Lindenhurst, Long Island.

You have won a free copy of let the children worship compliments of Christian focused publications. And you're going to be receiving that in the mail compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible book service CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm CV BBS comm.

So look out in the mail for a package that has CV BBS comm on the address label on the return address label and you should get that in at least a week. And we are on top of the game right now. Those of you who are winning books and Bibles should be getting them in a more rapid function or rapid pace right now because of the fact that we seem to be caught up with all the.

The.

Bibles and books that were Delayed for a couple of weeks. So we thank Todd and Patty Jennings for all their hard work over there at Cumberland Valley Bible book service and shipping out all of our winners what they Received by submitting questions to our guests during the daily broadcast.

We have Murray in Kinross, Scotland. Who says if worship actually means worth? Ship w-o-r-t-h sh-i-p. Telling forth the worth of God. Then it is possible for children to be capable of worship. For is the point here that they are present in worship rather than participating in it.

Yeah, I think as we look at it the essence of when we are meeting with when we're in worship on Sunday mornings. We're including our children in That meeting with and he is Sinai to the tabernacle 21 where heaven and earth meet in this meeting with God.

Well, thank you Murray in Kinross, Scotland. And guess what? I have a surprise for you Murray. We usually don't Ship out books to our listeners who are living overseas because of the extravagant or really steep Shipping costs, but I'm gonna make sure that since the book is a fairly brief book and light in weight I will make sure that we ship out a free copy of this book to you in Kinross, Scotland and That is the book.

Let the children worship. Compliments of Christian focus publications and compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV bbs .com. CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service.

Calm and. We're going to go to a break right now. And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Jason Halopoulos. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

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Iron sharpens iron radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars a year-round Bible conference and retreat center. Nestled on the Jersey Shore Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars. Each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word. An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families couples singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries 90 miles from New York City 70 miles from Philly and 95 miles from Wilmington and easily accessible.

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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WLIE radio www .wlie540am .com.

Www .wlie540am .com www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively. Useful and I assure you never dull join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time For a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor.

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Call eight six six four zero three. Thirty-seven sixty-eight. That's eight six six four zero three 3768 or go to Battery Depot calm. That's Battery Depot calm. Welcome back. This is Chris Orns and if you just tuned us in our first guest for today who will be with us for the next half hour as Jason Holopoulos assistant pastor at University Reform Church in East Lansing, Michigan.

Our second guest coming up at the top of the hour 5 p .m. Eastern Time will be Jonathan master and he is going to be addressing the sufficiency of scripture. But if anybody would like to join us on the air now with a question.

Regarding Jason Holopoulos his book. Let the children worship. Our email address is Chris Orns and at gmail .com Chris Orns and at gmail .com. We have Joe in Slovenia who says. Maybe someone already asked this question to it.

Though it is very important how to talk with the pastor and elders of a church. That is currently sending the children out to Sunday school During the worship service. What does your guest advise about how to approach this topic?

Thanks so much for your ministry. I Was Joe in Slovenia.

So Chris, could you could you repeat the question for me? Oh.

Yes, I will repeat the question for you and I have to find it again because I just deleted it. This is Joe in Slovenia. Let's see, he asked the question and I have to re-enlarge it because it's microscopic on his font that he emailed me with.

So I am enlarging the question now and his question is. Maybe someone already asked this question. Though it is very important I think is what he meant to say. There's a typo here though. It is very important how to talk with the pastor and elders of a church.

That is currently sending the children out to Sunday school during the worship service. What does your guest advise about how to approach this topic? I guess is what he's saying is how do you talk to your pastor your own pastor or elders?

If when a worship service starts the children have their own kind of Children's worship service or Sunday school that they are being led out of the sanctuary where the adults are gathered into another Assembly for children alone and I and I guess he's just asking for advice.

How do you speak to your own elders about that or he's asking for advice on that?

Yeah, I think that's an excellent question. I really appreciate that. You know as a pastor, I I welcome Congregants here in the church and I think that that apply. Have wondered. I think any path you and the leadership will contain any pastor.

Well Joe in Slovenia.

We thank you for providing an American address for us where we can Give you this free book where we can ship that free book where your daughter lives in Georgia here in the United States. So we will be shipping out to her To your attention a copy of let the children worship by Jason Holopoulos.

Thanks for your sending in the question and please continue spreading the word. About iron sharpens iron radio in Slovenia and beyond.

What did you say buzz and the rest of Europe? Yes and.

Our email address if anybody else would like to join us is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside of the good old USA and we have Tony in South Carolina.

And Tony with an eye Tony asks a question that I have to enlarge her font too because it's too microscopic. Let's see. I believe Age segregated church gatherings are unbiblical and I believe age Segregation is one of the primary causes for the worldly Christian youth that are walking away from the faith in large numbers.

I recently Visited a family integrated church for about four weeks and I was amazed how quiet the children were during worship Which lasted about an hour and a half. I also noticed that this church Was made up primarily of large families with young children.

There were no senior citizens in the congregation of about 75 well over half Were young children. I am convinced that these parents were very much focused on teaching their children a real reverence For the worship service and for behavior in the house of the Lord.

What a wonderful experience it was. And that is Tony and South Carolina and folks when you submit your questions Please also give your city as well as your state that would appreciate that. But do you have any response to Tony's?

Comment. Really it's more of a comment than a question.

Yeah, you know it makes me think of you know, Matthew's gospel the Lord. We gather together. I agree with the caller it here a few weeks ago. We can look around and it is one of the true signs.

Well, thank you for the question Tony and Rock Hill, South Carolina. And now we need your full address because we're going to be sending at you a free copy of The book that we are discussing today Let the children worship.

And that's compliments of our friends at Christian focus publications and compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible book service. Shipping it out to you CV BBS calm at CV for Cumberland Valley BBS calm so keep your eye open For a package from CV BBS calm and please give us your full mailing address.

So we can have them get it out to you in a timely fashion. We have RJ in White Plains, New York. Who says I've often wondered if we are teaching our children to lie when they are being told? To sing hymns, especially up on the podium of the church as a Part of the worship service where you have a children's choir or something like that.

Where children are singing words to hymns that they really don't believe or at least as you can tell they couldn't comp possibly comprehend. Do you think that that they're children. Other words are children being taught to lie if they're just being Taught to sing words to him and you don't even really know if they believe in these words.

Yeah. Well, thank you RJ in White Plains, New York, and you are also getting a free copy of let the children worship.

So, please make sure we have your full mailing address so we can have CV. BBS calm ship that out to you. Thanks again for joining us on iron sharpens iron and please keep spreading the word in White Plains, New York and beyond.

Before we run out of time I really want you to summarize those things that you primarily want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

Jason, you know what? There were there were four points in that sermon and there'll be a day that they will worship trainer or whatever.

Well, I want to thank you so much pastor. Jason holopolis for being on the program. And I really enjoyed our first interview and I look forward to many more god willing if you if you are interested.

And if god is willing we'd love to have you back in the program with you as well and appreciate your listeners.

And I want our listeners to know that the website for university reformed church in east lansing michigan is universityreformedchurch .org. Universityreformedchurch .org. You guys really get a hold of a perfect website there before somebody else universityreformedchurch .org.

If anybody Wants to purchase this book that we have been discussing Let the children worship you can go to cv bbs .com. That's cv for crumble and valley bbs. Revivalbookservice .com. If you live in the uk You can go directly to christian focus publications, which is located in the uk.

And their website is christianfocus .com. Christianfocus .com and you could type in the search engine right in the top left corner. Let the children worship. Let the children worship and that book will come up.

Well, thanks again, jason, and we look forward to your return god willing in the near future. Thank you. I look forward to being back with you. God bless and don't go away folks because coming up next at a matter of moments.

We have our second guest jonathan master. Discussing the sufficiency of scripture and also letting us know about a bible conference that he is participating in in the very near future. That is being conducted by the alliance of confessing evangelicals.

So don't go away we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

The Sufficiency of Scripture and the Reformation’s Authority Principle

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For generations christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at harvey cedars. Each year thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about god's word. An additional 9 000 come annually to harvey cedars as families couples singles men women pastors seniors and missionaries.

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Every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions Coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus. Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ.

Long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world-class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country.

And around the world. Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future Volunteer donate pray or all of the above. For details call long island youth for christ at six three one three eight five eight three three three, that's six three one three eight five eight three three three or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

I am chris arnes and host of iron sharpens iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world magazine My trusted source for news from a christian perspective. Try world at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of r .c. Sproul's book relationship between church and state.

I rely on world because I trust the reporting. I gain insight from the analysis. And world provides clarity to the news stories that really matter. I believe you'll also find world to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth That's simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage world can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community. This trial includes bi-weekly issues of world magazine On-scene reporting from world radio and the fully shareable content of world digital.

Simply visit wmg .org Forward slash iron sharpens to get your world trial and dr Sproul's book all free no obligation with no credit card required. Visit world news group at wng .org. Iron sharpens today.

Hi, i'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's study every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern time on wlie radio www .wlie540am .com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you.

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