August 16, 2024 Show with Dr. Hensworth W C Jonas on “Radical Discipleship”

The Program Opens and the Guest Is Welcomed

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania home of founding father James Wilson 19th century hymn writer George Duffield 19th century gospel minister George Norcross and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors and Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at iron Sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this 16th day of August 2024 before I introduce to you my guest and our topic of the day I want to remind all listeners That are or who are men in ministry leadership?

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Dr Joe boot send me that email to be registered to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Well, I'm absolutely thrilled to have one of my favorite preachers of all time and I am NOT exaggerating On the program for the second time.

I can't believe It's been six years since I've had this dear brother on the show his name is dr. Hemsworth Jonas and dr. Jonas is the executive director of the East Caribbean Baptist Mission and the resident pastor of Central Baptist Church of Antigua and Calvary Baptist Church of st. Vincent.

He is an author a highly sought-after conference speaker, and he's going to be addressing the theme radical discipleship Uncompromising conviction in a hostile world. We're also going to be announcing an upcoming full conference for Reformation Month at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania Featuring dr. Jonas.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpen sign radio. Dr. Hensworth Jonas.

It's a pleasure to be with you again.

And please if you could let our listeners know something about the East Caribbean Baptist Mission.

The East Caribbean Baptist Mission and Ministry in the Caribbean

Well, these Caribbean Baptist Mission is our indigenous missionary society we are aiming at reaching the entire Eastern Caribbean and the wider Caribbean with the gospel of God's free and sovereign grace and We are incorporated in Antigua and Barbuda.

And by the way, we say Antigua even though Even though it's a Spanish word Columbus named the island off of a church in Spain Santa Maria la Antigua, but the since the British Took control of that island.

They have said Antigua and that's what everybody there says, okay. But the Antigua and Barbuda a twin island nation in the Eastern Caribbean. It's a microstate like the other nations of the Eastern Caribbean a part of the organization of East Caribbean States and the British Commonwealth and we have been Attempting to preach the gospel of God's free and sovereign grace there for many decades for the last three decades at least.

The church that I pastor I've been there for 38 years Wow be 39 years in December and The Lord used me and ECBM to plant three other churches on the island of Antigua and I'm currently trying to revive a church on the island of St. Vincent the Calvary Baptist Church a 76 year old Baptist Church that was dying and By God's grace.

It's coming back to the glory of God. Hallelujah and So I'm working on that. I also have been involved in Christian education. I Founded three schools there in Antigua an early childhood school Primary school and a secondary school.

We call them Baptist Academy of Antigua and we have a combined student body of about 450 children and The Lord has been blessing that ministry. We have had the best test scores in our nation on both the primary and secondary level, but most importantly, it's a platform for Leading children and their parents to the Lord Jesus Christ.

We're also involved in media ministries with local television for the last 30 years and I've been doing all that we can to mentor young men for the work of the ministry.

Hallelujah, and if anybody wants more information on the Baptist mission the East Caribbean Baptist mission go to Baptist Antigua. Pronouncing it correctly. I believe this time Baptist Antigua org and that is Baptist a and t I Gua org and we will be repeating that information later on in the program.

And I have very fond memories as I look at you through the screen of the computer. I remember when you were last on the program in May of.

2018.

May 28th to be exact and we discussed a doctor. I'm sorry. Dancing with idolatry. Are you bowing to a false God? I remember you were actually sitting right next to me in the studio.

Yes, and thank God for the technology that we can do it still from such a distance.

Yes, and you sound like you're in the studio nonetheless even though we're hundreds of miles apart. The I just have to quickly before I forget to say it later I strongly urge everyone listening. If you can make it to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania on Saturday and Sunday, October 26 and 27th To attend the Reformation Month conference that they're having there featuring Dr. Hemsworth Jonas, I strongly urge you to attend this event as I said at the outset of this program Dr. Jonas is truly one of my very favorite preachers on the planet Earth.

That is not hyperbole it's not exaggeration and I know many who share my opinion and I don't know if If Josh Miller the pastor of Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg has given you the full title yet of your.

Well, yes, he has he's called a sanctification this moment of worship and We're we're going to be doing a careful study of Romans chapter 12 In relation to this and so I'm really looking forward to to this event.

Yeah, and I was thrilled when not long ago.

Josh Miller Contacted me and said Chris you've helped us out before. Can you please help us? To arrange a conference this October. We need a guest speaker and I immediately thought of you and I'm so delighted that in God's providence Your schedule was clear and that this has been a dumb deal etched in stone, of course.

God does what he wants to do.

But.

Deo volente.

So, uh, if not willing if all well, if all goes according to his plan. Uh, we will be uh seeing dr. Jonas this October and I strongly urge you to come uh for more details. Uh, go to the grace bible fellowship church of harrisburg pennsylvania website gracebfc .com grace bfc which stands for bible fellowship church Dot com and we'll also be repeating That later on in the broadcast.

Radical Discipleship as a Cure for Worldliness

Well, you have written a new book That our friends at reformation heritage books has brought into print. Uh, and it is called radical discipleship uncompromising conviction in a hostile world. I do want to read some of the powerful commendations uh for this book uh, my friend, dr. Joel Beakey Who is chancellor and professor of homiletics and systematic theology at puritan reform theological seminary in grand rapids, michigan.

I've known dr. Beakey since the 1990s. Long before he became a very famous reformed Christian conference speaker and author and in fact, he was just very recently my keynote speaker at the last iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon Uh did a remarkable message to the pastors there on 10 ways to overcome Depression in the ministry through criticism and it was really remarkable, but dr. Beakey says of this book In much of modern christianity the prevalence of worldliness has diluted the distinction between the church and the world.

In the church today, there is relatively little demand for gospel clarity sound preaching Genuine discipleship christ-centered suffering and faithful church discipline. In this work hensworth Jonas shows that spirit worked life transforming and radical discipleship Is the divine cure for worldliness.

Such transformation is rooted in the power person and call of jesus christ as well As awareness of god's holiness eager anticipation of future glory separation from the world and imitation of god with a pastoral heart.

Jonas then shows how biblical discipleship should transform every aspect of our lives from the inside out. You will not be disappointed by this excellent manual Of reformed experiential and practical christian living also a very dear friend of mine.

Also dating back to the 1990s Dr. Conrad Mbewe pastor of kabwatha baptist church In lusaka zambia africa and founding chancellor of the african christian university in lusaka zambia. Dr. Mbewe says The christian faith by its very nature must be radical.

Light has come into the world of darkness thus hensworth Jonas's call in this book for god's people to pursue through holiness in this sinful world Must be taken seriously. He challenges us to a christian life that is wonderfully illustrated by his own life and ministry in the caribbean.

But above all this is a call to biblical christianity. I commend this book to today's church Lest we totally lose our saltiness. Let us heed this clarion call. And finally another man who has been a guest on this program another very powerful preacher.

Paul washer founder and missions director of heart cry missionary society. Paul says hensworth jonas intends to speak a word of correction exhortation And encouragement to contemporary christianity by god's grace.

He has achieved this purpose. A careful reading of this book will result in a spiritual recalibration In all the areas of the christian life that truly matter his contrast between the god of the bible And the designer god of contemporary christianity Is remarkable.

His call for straightforward obedience to the word of god is a summons to true discipleship. All very powerful commendations and More reasons why everyone should get a hold of this book if you care about discipleship.

Well, dr. Jonas What can you say? Especially from the context of ministering in the caribbean. But of course you do travel, uh globally. Uh, you're a highly sought after conference speaker. But in what uh context.

Through your ministry in the caribbean. Uh, did you have? Through god's providence compelling factors That led you to say i've got to put pen to paper and write this book on discipleship.

Well, I must give a lot of credit to um, uh Dr. Beeky to encourage who encouraged me greatly to write this book. Um, we met up at a few conferences. We've been meeting up at a lot of conferences. Yeah, um, uh in brazil and in uh in paris.

In uh throughout the united states and and he will be joining me next year in antigua. And I will be joining him next week at the puritan reform.

Uh.

Conference. Their puritan reform theological seminary conference in grand rapids where they'll be. Pretty much talking about the church and the christian family. And so I will be presenting two addresses there and uh also at his church the heritage reform congregation.

Um the following sunday, but um He encouraged me to write.

Um.

Along these lines. Uh having heard a number of my sermons and um, and uh, I am. For the last 38 years 38 and a half years of ministry in the caribbean full-time as a pastor.

Um.

Have encountered so many.

Um.

Situations where i've had to engage the culture head-on. We like to say when america sneezes we catch the cold. Uh, we live. We are a microstate living in the shadow of this superpower. And no doubt a lot of american culture and issues impact what happens in these nearby countries and so a lot of the woke neo-marxists uh critical race theory.

Um.

All the gender issues or the abortion. You you name it. Um, it affects us too and uh we we need clear voices and clear messages along those lines and so. This book is an attempt to address it from the perspective of christian discipleship because the real crisis Is in a watered down christianity among believers even in reform churches.

Um.

I have described the current situation um as an effeminate cowardly perverted and shallow iteration of christianity. And that has the ascendancy in our generation and so.

Um.

I think that uh, this is an urgent and necessary call.

The Effeminization of Christianity and the Need for Biblical Masculinity

Well, if you could explain for us how is much of modern day christianity. Made effeminate.

Well.

For what even by when we say effeminate there is A very clear despising of the biblical benevolent patriarchy God's order in the world you know and um. Whether whether that is expressed in the family Or the local church or in society at large.

Men who lead biblically Are slandered are called toxic Toxic patriarchy. The word patriarchy is now a pejorative. Yeah uh, they're called misogynist, you know, they're called all of these names and so many of the men become beta males.

They are Very obsessed with the affective domain. They they're concerned with emotion and feelings rather than being enforcers of righteousness. In their homes and in their churches and in their communities.

And so there is a crisis of masculinity biblical masculinity. And so the christianity that we have today has been affected greatly by this. And in many churches in antigua and barbuda, I would say most churches in antigua and barbuda um and the caribbean uh, and I put churches in quotation marks because I do not believe that most of these will qualify as biblical churches um would have women leadership on every level.

Uh pastors and worship leaders and and in many authoritative capacities in ruling the women and so We look like an aberration. You know, we look crazy. We look out of touch.

Um.

When we insist that the leadership in homes and churches must be men. And uh, um look around the churches not only in in the caribbean region, but across america. Do we even see the symbol of authority on the heads of our women?

No, we don't I know. The women generally just ignore this because There is a despising of god's order in first corinthians 11. We see that uh, the head of christ is god. That The head of the man is christ and the head of the woman is the man.

And of course, this is something that is hated in our culture today. So yes, it is effeminate in many senses of the word.

Um, and certainly out of the will of god. In fact, let me just take an opportunity to plug a very recent interview I conducted with zachary garris. He is the author of honor thy father's recovering the anti-feminist theology of the reformers a forward by joseph a pipa the president emeritus at greenville presbyterian theological seminary in south carolina.

Uh, I had a wonderful interview with brother garris, but um, so you you have given us some of what you believe is the root cause of the modern churches of feminacy.

Being.

The rise of feminism within the ranks of Ministries and churches. And even if it is not called that uh, there are people who have become so used to the dominance of feminism In our culture that it's kind of like a frog in a kettle syndrome.

Where they don't even possibly realize how affected they are by feminism. And how much they cater to? The whims of feminists. Without even realizing how anti-biblical it is.

Uh, well, there's no doubt about that. There's no doubt about that. We need a return to biblical femininity as opposed to this pagan feminism Where the women understand and embrace the fact that they thrive Only when god's order is predominant when god's order prevails.

They are in no way um being victimized by god's order. God's order is the nature of reality and that is the context in which they will thrive.

Sola Scriptura, Leftist Approval, and the Crisis of Authority

Now this is a theory of mine and I was wondering what you thought of it. As far as that same thought about the feminizing or effeminizing effeminization of the church. There are many who are even on paper Theologically biblical orthodox.

But some of these men Obviously It appears have a craving Of being accepted as a peer to the leftists in academia and their approach uh to declaring the gospel is much it's very weighty in its Intellectual elements.

But lacks robustness lacks power. Lacks, uh, unwavering and uncompromising.

Uh.

Boldness without fear of of insulting the hearers or readers In their audience and it to me that approach uh, especially when things that they say and write have been softened not to offend the leftists in academia who's Approval they crave it has produced a more feminine Church because people look up to these men as the experts of of christianity.

Am I making sense there?

You're making a lot of sense, but I need to clarify one matter. Sure. Um, my book is not necessarily an attack on Um on feminism, right? This is about one symptom right real problem is is is the absence of The correct epistemology.

All right, our epistemology as reformed christians is sola scriptura. Yes. That's how we know what we know. Well, the dominant epistemology of our generation Is is emotion feelings? And also tradition how we have always done it.

But if we are going to to be in the will of god, we must understand that our epistemology can be nothing less than sola scriptura. But having said that You have nailed it in your analysis that the quest for the approbation.

Accreditation. Applause. I sound a little baptist there with that alliteration. But but the this this desire to have the approval.

Of.

The world. And you're naming a particular Uh powerful group in america and around the world the those who are on the left um, and as a matter of fact, you you you must realize that. Um left now is actually worse than liberal.

Yes. Uh because uh, there are liberal people Who will still stand up for certain rights and that keep um, the judeo-christian ethic alive. You know, but but but these leftists is radical leftists somehow have focused uh, boy, they are focused on Capturing the major institutions of the society while the rest of us sleep.

Yes, and so. They have captured academia. They have captured the media. They have captured major political parties. They have captured, uh, it's so many of the major institutions and are wreaking havoc and.

Destroying our civilization. Yes, it's uh. It's so grievous when you when you realize. Uh, sometimes we forget that some of the major institutions of learning in our nation and elsewhere. Uh the ivy league schools and other institutions uh that.

Uh.

Were born out of a puritan theology and ethic and have become the haters Of all that the puritan stood for and especially The haters of all that god And his inerrant god-breathed word stands for. Uh, it's just such a tragedy to see how far they have fallen.

Uh these these organizations, but we have to go to our first commercial break and when we come back i'd like Hensworth to address the radical christ From his book and if you have any questions of your own for dr Hensworth jonas our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

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And mention iron sharpens iron radio. So we get 100 of the profits from that sale. Go to royaldiadem .com. Mention iron sharpens iron radio. We're now back with dr. Hensworth Jonas. And if you would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

As always give us your first name at least city and state of residence and country of residence. We are discussing radical discipleship uncompromising conviction in a hostile world, which is also the title of Dr. Jonas's new book available from Reformation heritage books.

The Radical Christ Who Takes Over the Whole Life

And.

The one of the issues that I mentioned before we went to the break uh was the radical christ. How is this christ that you believe? Must be Rediscovered and preached boldly uh different from the christ that may be Proclaimed from the pulpits of many evangelical churches today.

Well, of course, um the christ that many are hearing of and have grown accustomed to Does not look like anything That we see in the holy scripture. Well, there are several things that I brought out in the in the book concerning this one of which is that When this christ comes into your life, it's a coup d 'etat.

It's a coup d 'etat. He takes over Your life. There is an alien power uh that summons you and controls you the the the as a matter of fact, um you will sense that You're no longer your own you will understand that.

You have now been uh, uh commandeered you have now been taken over and. Apart from this experience you really do not have a credible relationship with the god of the bible and so I I uh, I tried to bring out this and to.

Um.

Present this. That any other christ is an idolatrous representation. He takes over but not only does he take over. It's all about him in the sense that he never says follow this or follow that or follow.

Them.

Or follow over there. No, he says follow me. It's all about a personal relationship. And um, it's all about understanding. That you are engaging him intimately. I know this sounds a little bit too mystical for some of our generation but uh.

But it is a personal engagement of the christ in a relationship where you are daily Gazing upon him through the eyes of faith. Where worshiping him.

Is.

It's the heart of who you are now. That's your favorite activity. You understand that you are here for his glory and so. Uh, the the glory of christ becomes your highest motive and your your basic purpose for for living.

As a matter of fact, your sin only starts when the worship stops.

All.

All of our iniquitous Excursions are rooted in the fact that we took our gaze off christ. And so this this is this is an important aspect that we we brought out in in in the book. Uh, and another thing is that He calls you to action.

I I made a lot out of matthew's call. Matthew 99. He was mining his own business as a customs officer.

Um.

He's actually a traitor to his nation as a customs officer of the romans. And jesus comes to his office And summons him to resign And take up a whole new occupation. Just imagine that how the audacity of christ to come into his life.

And just call him away from his occupation to a whole new preoccupation. Which is the extension of the kingdom of god. This is what christ does. It's it's so radical when you experience the christ that your whole Life is interfered with disturbed Taken over and so.

Uh.

Any other understanding Of your relationship with christ has some somehow compromised biblical christianity.

Would you say a part of this? Aberrant understanding of christ comes from.

The.

Belief of many who profess to be evangelical that being nice Is infinitely more important Than being truthful to the point of hurting others feelings. People are far more concerned With the feelings of people very often than they are with their eternal destinies.

And they would rather keep a friend And not disturb a warm.

Collegial.

Ironic relationship with that friend.

And.

See that person. Die and go to hell.

Uh.

So they are just fearful of saying anything that would dare. Ruffle their feathers hurt their feelings. Uh, and they present the christ. That is much the same way in fact. You very often. I have heard it many times especially since i'm in christian radio and I worked for a major Radio network for 15 years of my life.

Uh, many have presented a christ that they will describe as a perfect gentleman. And that is usually something said by those who hate. The doctrines of grace and the doctrines of a sovereign god. Oh our god would never.

Uh.

Remove your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh without you. First being willing to do that. Willing for him to do that because of course he is a gentleman. Am I making sense here?

You're making a lot of sense. As a matter of fact your last example there is is very very powerful because the same people Who are pretending to be very much invested in christian theology will make a case that you need The permission of the second adam for him to accomplish his work.

Yes, while the first adam We we we we were not in any way.

Involved.

Volitionally with the work of the first adam. Uh, he just he ruined everything for us without our permission and the second adam Can't they're saying cannot fix things for us without our permission. Which is total nonsense.

But what you have done? Brother chris is returned to even what we discussed earlier about the effeminate christianity that we have because we know from our studies our signs that. The ladies while we all appreciate emotion and feelings.

Everybody does. The ladies major on that affective domain. They they major on on on the feelings and and um, we want that I mean. We we love our moms, you know, I mean sometimes if we have if dad had to straighten things out.

We like the comfort of mom and there's nothing wrong with that. But when this thing becomes the dominant principle upon which you engage persons. Where you are overly obsessed with feelings rather than truth.

Uh.

You're going to end up with compromise and corruption of your christianity.

Radical Transformation and the Necessity of Change

And a perfect segue that you have in your book to that is radical transformation. And according to what I have witnessed over the decades that i've been a christian Thankfully all of those years In a solid biblical confessional reformed baptist church.

I was saved in a reformed baptist church. Thanks be to god so I never had to Unlearn a whole lot of baggage of uh.

Of.