Is Gambling Entertainment Or Sin? (part 1)

Let's open in prayer. Father thank you for this morning. Thank you for getting us here safely as we drove across ice and other sundry things and Father what a good

God you are to guide us, to protect us, to gather us together in the name of Jesus Christ who loved us, who redeemed us, who gave himself for us.

Father I pray that as we look at this subject this morning that you would grant us open minds,

Father that you would grant us wisdom, that you would cause us to search your word and think about these things and consider them.

Father I pray for each one here that we would grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and it's in his name we pray.

Amen. Well you know I feel somewhat and I started looking back there because I thought about reading

Acts 17 because I feel somewhat provoked in my spirit and I think from time to time

I get provoked because I look around our society and I see idols, things that people worship.

Yesterday I think I tended to notice that a lot of people were jonesing over missing an

NFL game like I have to subscribe to thus and such whatever it was service so that I don't miss a playoff game and I thought that's kind of sad.

I mean if you already get it or whatever fine but just seemed kind of goofy but I don't know if anybody's noticed but there seems to be an increase in the emphasis on gambling these days.

Have you seen any of those advertisements or heard any of them on the radio? Fan duel.

Yeah in fact I looked up I thought well let's just see what the top apps are. USA Today I mean

I gave up on the Apple Store but USA Today has a has a listing of the best gambling apps.

I'm not even going to go through it but I just thought this is how serious it is where national newspaper will take the time to evaluate the gambling apps and you know what

I find most interesting about these advertisements on the radio. How many advertisements do you listen to?

I mean it could be any number of medical advertisements or other things but do you ever hear you know a disclaimer at the end some kind of lawyer saying you know if you have problems with your contact 1 800.

Did you know there's actually there's a mass helpline for gambling. What if you know part of what bugs me is when they vote to legalize gambling what do they say.

Here's the pitch from the politicians that is going to do what it's going to bring in revenue.

Yes but it's also going to do something else which is help the children. That's that's the whole pitch for the lottery right.

Oh help the children so we don't have to raise your taxes because it is a tax.

Whether you recognize that or not the lottery is a tax. It's just a voluntary tax. You know I don't think the government gets them enough my money.

I'll play the lottery. They talk about economic growth.

They talk about good paying jobs. And you know what

I think as we go through this you're going to realize that these good paying jobs. It's kind of like if I said well you know loan sharking is good because it creates good jobs for the guys who come and break your legs when you don't pay your debt.

Are those good jobs. I don't think they are. So I didn't have

I didn't fashion enough questions for a quiz but I do have some questions. So we'll start with number one.

True or false gambling is not expressly forbidden in the Bible. So it's not a sin. I mean does anybody have a verse that says thou shalt not gamble.

It is the 11th commandment. But now there is no verse that says that.

Does that mean it's not a sin. There's no verse.

Well that's arguable. But is there a verse about abortion. Probably not.

You know does that mean it's OK to do it. No I borrowed a lot of this morning this morning's material from several articles from Phil Johnson and I don't think he'll sue me.

Phil says in the answer that by the way is false. I'm going to argue that gambling is a sin.

And you know some of you will say well no it's not. And we'll we'll work through that. The absence

Phil says of a single command or proof texting against gambling ultimately proves nothing.

There are a lot of things that are not explicitly mentioned in the Bible which we would probably agree are clearly sinful.

And he gives the example of there's nothing in the Bible that explicitly forbids.

Are you ready. Arson. And I'm like hmm.

Yeah it's pretty bad though. And he says it's a it is a violation of the commandment.

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people but you shall love your neighbor neighbor as yourself.

I am the Lord. That's Leviticus 19 18. But I mean there are other reasons people commit arson you know whether it's insurance fraud.

But I mean all those things are sinful. But I asked this question

I said how many non sinful things does the government create a helpline for. I mean they legalize this and they know it's a problem but it's like you know alcohol is legal and they have all kinds of programs for that too.

But I took this from their website the mass gambling help whatever

I don't know if I put it down here or not. Somewhere I have the link says gambling takes many forms and many people don't even realize they're gambling.

What seems like a harmless pastime for some can cause serious problems for others. Oh yeah there it is.

Gambling help helpline m a dot org. You know again. Now there's some good paying jobs.

The people who created the website who wrote all this stuff up and who are probably staffing all the rehab facilities that you know people are going to.

But here are some of the questions they ask to determine whether you have a gambling problem. During the past 12 months have you become restless irritable or anxious when you're when trying to stop or cut down on your gambling.

I mean are there other problems that people have that lend themselves to addictions.

You could say well shopping could be an addiction. Yeah OK. All right. I think ultimately what we have to ask ourselves is there anything positive that comes out of gambling and some people will say entertainment won't cover that during the.

Here's another question. During the past 12 months have you tried to keep your family or friends from knowing how much you gambled.

Now there's a clue if you don't want anybody to know what you're doing. I mean that's kind of like you know people who cover their drinking things of that nature their drug use.

Why don't they want anybody to know if it's OK. During the past 12 months did you have such financial trouble as a result of your gambling that you had to get help with living expenses from family friends or.

Welfare. You know what I've ran up such a run of such a tab on gambling.

I think I'm eligible for welfare. I need some government assistance. Now nobody needs to go there right now.

But I stopped counting then where I just said how many how many gambling apps are there. And I stopped counting at 15.

You know just kind of. And if you think about it what does that mean if there are that many gambling apps.

I mean we can gamble anywhere at home at work at church right while the pastor's preaching.

OK. Number two true or false. The reason most people gamble is because they are dissatisfied dissatisfied.

They want something more right. They're not happy. They want to they want to. Maybe make themselves rich.

How about this. I mean if we think about you know what were the worst three years in recent history.

How many would vote for 2020 to 2022. Those were pretty you know 2020 2021 2022.

Those are not grand years in the big scheme of things. Would you believe that casino gambling revenue in other words this is the money they made not the money that was gambled doubled during those years during the big lockdowns while everybody was getting inoculated gambling revenues doubled.

And this is only in casinos. So I would say people were not very happy and they went out to make themselves happy.

They doubled from 30 billion to 60 billion. And if you if you do the math on that what does that mean if that was their profit and their profit margin by the way in casinos is or was they may have increased it but it's about 12 percent.

And here's one of the problems that we have. We I mean I stand before you.

I must confess that I once put a quarter in a you know one of those things one of those slot machine driving through Las Vegas.

The person I was with drove around the block while I went in and put in a quarter. And then you know

I drove around the block while she ran in there and put in a quarter. So we can both say we went to Vegas and gabled 12 percent profit margin.

So when we go into a casino you know our thought is what that I'm gambling against the casino.

But is that true. They let you win what just enough to stay there.

But but you know just think about it. Let's say Charlie owns a casino. No welcome to Charlie's casino.

OK. And you're going in and you're playing and you're thinking well the only person I'm gambling against is Charlie.

Is that correct. Why isn't it correct. I'll tell you why.

Because what's happened is all the people on this side of the room have already lost their money and the people on this side of the room are coming in and they're going to try to win the money that those people lost.

So Charlie is playing with these people's money. Sorry folks. Yeah. Well it is kind of like a bank except for it's a little bit.

I mean if you could go to the bank and get 12 percent interest on your money we'd be better savers.

Right. True. Yeah. So the casinos are they don't lose money.

I remember when I was a new deputy sheriff you know unbeliever. So just keep that in mind.

But it didn't really doesn't really impact this story. But I was an unbeliever. But all the guys were disliked because I was working in a place where I got out of the academy.

I was working in this place. It's called PHR Ranch pitches on a rancho and basically the inmates.

It was kind of more like summer camp for adult men. I mean they had jobs.

They'd work in the dairy or they work here there are other places. But they could leave basically if they wanted to escape.

All they had to do was just walk away. So it wasn't like high stress or anything like that.

Not like the time when I took Mike into the jail. I worked at the end of my career and he was just like we're locked in here.

And I said yes Mike we are. And he said but you have your gun right. No. But I do have a flashlight.

And he goes and these people are in for all murder or mayhem. He's like they're just walking the hallways.

But anyway these guys these deputies that I work with didn't have a lot to do during their shift.

We'd walk around and mill around. So when we got together sometimes they'd talk about what they were doing. And guys were learning how to gamble how to play a dice game called craps.

And they go the odds are really in your favor. I remember thinking

OK I've been to Vegas. I just drove through. I've been to Vegas. I've seen those nice buildings. And I think they didn't build those based on good odds.

I mean they're making a profit. It's built in. But you know whatever people are going to think whatever they want to think.

But during 2020 to 2022 Massachusetts was number 15 in gambling which is pretty impressive because we're not necessarily a big state biggest state.

In fact California wasn't even on the top list of because they don't have that many casinos. I mean that really shows you that we pack those casinos in.

But the fact that they made 60 the casinos made 60 billion dollars in revenue. And if you do the math and you go

OK they keep 12 percent. What does that mean. That means like 500 billion dollars.

Was gambled. That's a lot of money folks. I mean you could start your own country country with that kind of cash right.

And online sports gambling is expected to hit 10 billion dollars this year.

Phil Johnson says gambling is inconsistent with biblical virtue.

It is fueled by and it fuels covetousness greed and materialism.

So what about the argument that it's entertainment. Phil says even if you're the sort of person that can perfectly control their impulses and I mean who can't.

There are other considerations. Phil Johnson again he says a sinister principle underlying all gambling and is this for every winner.

There are losers and the winner's gains come at the loser's expense. There is no other way to gain money through gambling.

And so again you know our mentality is I mean if we sit down and not that we would.

But if we sat down at a table and we all put money in the middle we would all understand that somebody is winning. Somebody is losing.

But when you go to a casino the idea is well I'm just gambling against the casino. No you're not. They've got a built in profit margin.

They're going to win no matter what you do. I mean I'm no expert on gambling.

How many experts on gambling are there. Never mind. But when they set these lines you know

New England is a seven point underdog. I mean

I would like to say we're a favorite but you know we're not playing obviously. We're seven point underdog.

Well what does that mean. That means they've they've figured it out and they've done the math and basically

New England is going to lose by seven points. So at seven points it's a it's a break even at six.

And that's why they do that half thing by the way. So that you know there's more of a chance for more people to lose but that's neither here nor there.

What they do is they figured it out and they they figure that seven is the break even point.

But they make sure that whichever side they think is going to win that there's going to be more money on the other side.

So they never they're not stupid. They've done the science right.

I mean this is like you know do you ever you ever do some kind of stuff with your kids involving money where you just think well

I'm going to tell them I'm going to give them this amount of money if they do this. Knowing that no matter what

I say I'll give you ten thousand dollars. You know if you mow the yard backwards or whatever you know and you go because you realize that their little arms are going to get tired before they finish the yard because you've got 10 acres whatever.

But you know you've got a good piece of the lawn mowed and you feel good about yourself. No that's gambling.

I mean they set the odds so that you cannot win and no matter what you think in your feeble little mind they've sorted that out.

They're the experts. This is their business. You know this is like you know you walk in the

Placido's gym and you say dude I'm taking you down today. Probably not.

You know you want to go lifting with a Raldo and you're going to tell him what to do. Probably not. There are some things you're not going to do well in.

You think you're going to out eat Jerry Fish. No you're. He's got a metabolism that young man.

But here's the point. When you win you are taking that which belongs to another. The winner's profit always comes directly from the loser's pocket.

And he says there's something more sinister than merely winning an athletic competition which involves no material loss for the loser.

When you gamble you are taking something of value from someone else. It's the moral equivalent he argues of stealing.

Now there are arguments that people make about mutual consent. But if somebody says you know there are many situations where we would say moral consent doesn't mean it's a moral situation.

Right. I think we can agree to that. Prior consent

Phil says doesn't eliminate the evil in gambling. Then he says and this is true.

This is one of the things if you study gambling and I have in the past I didn't read about it extensively for this.

But if you study gambling there are things that happen when a casino moves into your neighborhood. There are reasons people don't like it when casinos move into the neighborhood.

Can you think of what some of those things would be. Crime. Traffic. I mean traffic is non -criminal right.

Prostitution. Alcoholism.

Drug use. Why. Why do those things all attend that.

Because as your inhibitions get dragged down which they will because why. I mean anybody ever been to Vegas.

Don't don't raise your hand. When you go there if you're known as a high roller we've all seen the movies right.

So we know we're experts. If you go strolling into a

Vegas hotel and you're known as a big roller which means what. You lose a lot of money.

Congratulations. High roller. They comp you the room. They give you free drinks.

Because the. Yeah. The longer you're there the more drunk you get the less you care the less you're thinking logically the better for them.

Other things happen when you get drunk of course. Your inhibitions go down and you are more prone to prostitution and all the things that go with that.

It's a downhill slide. Oh yeah.

Why do you suppose organized crime might be involved in you know I mean in reading this last couple of days they go.

Hey organized crime is not associated with casinos. Come on now.

Again we've seen the movies we know better. Why would organized crime be associated with casinos and whatnot.

Charlie. It's easy to launder money.

Loan sharking is another reason right. If they if you're in a bad spot and they can just give you a spot loan and charge you exorbitant amounts of interest then they'll do that right.

It's easy money. Why else would organized crime be involved. Prostitution.

Drugs. All these things. And here I'll just make it easy. It's where the money is.

Right. Why are they there. Because there's money to be made. And Phil goes on.

He says it is contrary gambling is to a biblical work ethic. It attempts to gain wealth without working for it.

I went to you know one of my favorite sources psychology today. Listen what they say.

They say gambling is one of those activities where people can effectively get something for nothing.

That's what makes it attractive. And they talk about the attraction of a lottery for example is that for a very small take stake the individual can have a life changing experience and things are further complicated by the fact that most lottery players don't see the activity as gambling.

Now I've talked about the lottery in the past. If you understood. Well first of all

I just mentioned a few times that the casinos make 12 percent profit. The government makes 50 percent you know on the on the lottery which when you realize you know it seems like a shocking amount and just think of all the money that goes to the kids and then and then you go by the the buildings that the lottery commission owns and you start thinking wait a minute people work in there you know do the math and then you realize that OK 50 percent was never going to go to the kids.

And then of course we know that money is fungible which means what it means if you've got a budget and you say well we're going to add this lottery money in here then they take this lottery money and they move it out the other way and use it for something else.

You know does it since we've had the lottery has you know the money for education risen significantly in the state budget and the answer is no.

It's one of their favorite things to cut because they know that local government has to make it up so because that's a fun game right.

The state sets the requirements for how much you have to spend on education then the state cuts education money and you still have to spend the money anyway you just have to raise property taxes do it but enough of that.

Yes OK so what he's trying to say is oh we're going to get there.

Thank you for anticipating that. Yes the stock market it's no different than working in the stock market yet.

Well yes it is. But we'll we'll we'll talk about that still in psychology today because we have to get the real deal out here.

People who enjoy playing roulette or betting on a football match I guess soccer properly called football but we won't argue that today.

Enjoy the betting or gaming experience itself. It's more fun. I've even heard this on advertisements right because if you have a stake in the game it makes the game more fun.

I mean it's more fun if you think well you know is I don't know Patrick Mahomes going to throw the first touchdown in the game or is somebody else going to do it.

You know I mean you can gamble on virtually anything. It's amazing to me because I listen to sports talk and I'm like you know here's a bet

I really like. The guy will say Kansas City number 78 will probably get the first holding penalty of the game.

What I mean if you're if you're involved at that level you've got a serious problem.

Oh yeah he's got a proclivity. Stop psychology today.

While gamblers may seem to be primarily driven by the profit motive the psychological evidence is overwhelming that the that other desires affect gambling actions.

Put simply for most gamblers our actions contradict the desire to maximize profits. The golden rule in poker is never give anything away but the human psyche works in such a way that we want to show off once in a while.

Our psychological makeup also means that we let pride get in the way of minimizing losses.

What are they saying? They're saying that there's a certain psychological bent at us that can't resist you know trying to recoup some money trying to show off all these kind of things.

And what does that mean? It means we're going to lose more. I mean casinos love all this stuff and they play for it.

This is all design. I mean I was watching we were watching a show not too long ago and people were sitting in maybe this is real life

I don't know real life and TV sometimes merge. But they're sitting in this gas station at these one armed bandits you know slot machines and they're just there for hours.

And you go what is wrong with you people? It's like get a little I mean you're better off can't you at least scroll

Twitter or something? I mean just as an aside you know

I was in the army in Okinawa and gambling was legal there. One of the guys in my company he was always winning money on these slot machines.

I was like there's no skill at all in that. He goes

I am you know I'm just lucky and I'm like okay. I don't know what to say about that you know.

Psychology today there are games there are always games that should have been avoided. In other words situations gambling situations that should have been avoided.

But players end up staying in them long after they knew it was a mistake. You win a big amount and you just keep going anyway.

Why? Because you think you're on a hot streak and the reality is you're just giving the casino their money back or some of it back.

Talking about poker none of us like to lose to those we think are weaker players or admit that the game was too hard.

So we just keep going keep pushing. How many times does a player continue playing because they want to try and get better of a great player.

Or show off because there's someone they're trying to impress. Then they say see if this sounds familiar although it is a cliche pride before a fall is commonplace.

Okay number three question number three true or false anything that involves investment and risk is gambling.

What do you think true or false. It can be but let's go back to the question because sometimes this guy who writes the questions knows what he's doing.

True or false anything that involves investment and risk is gambling not can be but is.

Thank you. So I just like to go back to you know make sure we're on the same page.

Okay Phil Johnson to gamble. This is his definition to gamble is to wager on a contest or to play at a game of chance for stakes to gamble is to wager on a contest or to play at a game of chance for stakes.

When you gamble you are risking money or something else of value on the outcome of something that involves an element of chance uncertainty or hazard for the possibility of winning something someone else has put at stake.

That's his definition of gambling which by the way as we'll see here in a bit rules out the stock market.

Because if I invest in stock does that mean somebody else if mine goes up to somebody else have to lose.

No then he says a stake is a prize one person stands to gain through the loss of others.

Now this is my personal opinion. I think it's something Phil will echo later.

If you play a Superman Superman if you play jump off the roof.

No if you play like these Super Bowl sheets you know 10 by 10 squares.

If you're in a fantasy football league and depending on the stakes you know whatever.

If you do something that's once a year twice a year or whatever and doesn't involve much money. It's not the same thing.

I mean is it the same principle. Yes and Phil will argue that. But it's not the same thing. I would argue that always playing the lottery is greed.

Why do you do it. You know people say well I only play it when it hits you know a billion dollars. Okay what are you telling me.

I want a lot of money and I don't want to risk much. That's that's greed.

Phil Johnson investing in the stock market is not gambling regardless of how much risk is involved.

If a stock gains value all the investors earn money. The gains of one investor are not financed by the losses of others.

In other words there are no losers when a stock gains value. When the stock value increases the economic pie grows.

And that's the difference you know in gambling. It's a fixed pie. The only money that you can win is money that's been gambled or is being gambled.

I mean what happens if you break the bank. You know if you go to the casino. Was that a hand.

Okay just a minute. If you go to the casino you know you say well I've got and they let you do this.

You know I mean I don't know that they would. You put everything that you've won on you know what what are the numbers on a roulette wheel.

Do they go to thirty five whatever it is. You know you put it all on the one number and it wins and they go you've broken the bank.

What does that mean. It means you now own the hotel but you're not getting all that money right. Now you can rip off other people.

So congratulations. Yes Nathan. Nope. Nope.

Nope. When you buy a stock. And it goes up.

That's not the same as the stock market because the stock market overall individual stocks will go up. And other stocks will go down.

Yes. OK. Fair.

But he's not. He's not addressing options. You know because options are different. I mean what.

What is option buying. It's betting. Right. I mean that's what it is.

I'm going to sell short. I'm going to sell whatever. You're betting that a stock is going up or down. And so and you may have more information than other people but it's still a gamble and not an investment.

Yes I would. Yes. Yes I would. Yep. All that.

Because because you're not thinking long haul you're thinking. You know. Essentially you're not doing it hoping that things are going to.

You know I'm not going to cash out in seven or eight or 10 years. I'm going to cash out sooner rather than later.

It's a it's a it's a bet that the market's going up or down. Jonathan. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

I mean it's it's a net. If we could look at it this way for society in general it's a net positive.

You know you're it's a hopeful sort of thing. Yes. Yeah.

Please don't because you know I'm not when it comes to the market. I'm not the expert. Go ahead. OK. I go for that.

He said that options could be like an insurance policy. In other words. And you know you'd have to give me the example.

But you know you could own a lot of Apple shares and you know thinking well they they're probably going to go up.

But then you might buy you might get a deal on an option where if it goes down you know

I'm insured against losses. So you know something. I mean that's probably a super simplistic example.

But you know that way you've got a hedge where you could make a ton of money on Apple stock and all those kids working in China to make you rich.

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Or you know on the other hand if it goes down you've got the option in your in your cover.

Yeah. Charlie. I hope it's not you know on stock options because. Yeah. Cindy says you're giving.

And essentially I think if you think of it that way as it's a donation then it's a donation.

Right. On the other hand you know if I wanted I'm keeping the cash. No no. Investing in it of itself is not sinful.

Otherwise Jesus wouldn't have used it as an example. That's right. OK. Other thoughts questions

Taylor. And I think that really is you know because I was thinking that exact same thing last night and I'm just like OK.

In a way this is much like alcohol. I mean it's not like drugs. Right.

Because drugs. Sorry. You know any any people struggling with drugs.

That's just flat out sin. Alcohol. If you take it you know if somebody says well I drink a glass of wine once a week.

OK. You say well I drink a glass of wine every night and then you know it's two glasses of wine and three glasses of wine.

And OK. Well all right. I drink a couple nips on the way home. And if you're driving from Boston who can blame you really.

But yeah it's a good example because you know it may be a situation like you're going to the

Little League and you throw in five bucks or whatever and like who cares because I just view it as a donation.

If you go to the casino and you throw in five bucks I don't you know I'm making a donation to the casino.

OK. I don't I don't think we could draw that parallel. But yeah I think that's I think it is a good illustration because.

If we have perfect impulse control there are certain things that we could do and I could go like you know the illustration of the

Super Bowl sheet. That's the only thing I do every year. You know we do it at work. Everybody puts in five bucks and whoever gets it wins the whole thing.

OK. You know if that that makes you happy. And it's just kind of something we do for fun.

All right. But if that's it you know they go well you know you might want to go to betting dot com or whatever and you start getting involved with that.

Well then you've got another issue. So it's like how close and how much control do you have. And for some people

I mean it's just like drinking. For some people they look at that you know 10 by 10

Super Bowl grid and they go I can't even go down that road because once I start doing that then

I'm just. I shouldn't say I'm off to the races. But yes

I'm off to the races. Yeah. Because some people just have no impulse control. Right.

So do I want to tempt myself. And the answer should be no I should not. And you know if you if your attitude about credit cards is well

I've still got room on my credit card then you probably should not go into the mall. Right. I mean or go online and you should be locked in a closet somewhere.

There are some there are some people you just need to know what your what your weaknesses are.

And you know for some people gambling is just in any form is just awful.

Other thoughts questions Corey. Why did you rob the bank. I need it.

I needed a new bowling ball. I've heard that many many times. Charlie.

OK go ahead. Well and that's the statistics

I had to kind of pause to make sure I initiated properly. The statistics show that is typically the people who could least afford to do it.

And that and it's that way with the lottery too. You know it is a tax. And pardon me for anybody who borrows or who buys lottery tickets but is essentially a tax on the poor.

And who overwhelmingly I mean John Kerry is not buying lottery tickets. And he's just asking his wife for more money.

Sorry. It's a tax on the poor and people who don't know.

I'll just put it nicely. People who don't know how bad it is. I mean the lottery is.

I mean you know people say well you know when it gets up to this or that or the other thing that's when I play and I'm like OK. But you might as well get your car rolled down your windows drive down the street and hope money will start flowing into your windows.

Because that's about your chances of winning the lottery. And not really good. Well that's rather sobering.

I mean people pawning their their gold teeth at least I guess they're not real teeth. That's that's

I mean that just kind of shows you know that when people get desperate enough they do what we would call you know basically crazy things.

Let's see where we're going to end this here. Yeah. Get gambling. Gambling is a destroyer of people of families.

There's really that there's really nothing good to be said about it.

And you know like I said if you just think you know they'll say good paying jobs for what.

The people who you know pull the chips away or push the chips out. Wow. I mean what does that take an advanced degree.

Sharon. Absolutely. I mean and idolatry is in part of it and we'll get to the scriptures on this in two weeks next week.

I'm going to be suffering for the Lord in Florida visiting all the casinos.

Not true. Not true. But yeah I mean if you think about it and you know

I think we have to be really careful in saying that some things are not a sin. I would say you know if you're talking about the 50 50 raffle and you're just basically given the money and you don't care what happens to us a contribution to the organization.

I think that's on a separate thing. But he makes the point that it's the principle that's wrong because you're trying to gain from other people's loss.

So I think in that sense it is separate from having a sip of wine in that it's always morally wrong.

It's just a question of is it really a problem. Yeah. Well and that's what it is.

It's ultimately a lack of contentment and it just manifests itself you know a different degree.

It's Nathan and then we have to go. Well Phil Phil will eventually address exactly that and he'll say you know we're not going to do church discipline on a penny any poker game.

That's not the point. The point is he goes the principle is still the same. You know now we're just talking about about a matter of degrees and he goes you know that's kind of like in the.

Well I do have some some scriptures but let me just give you one since I have a I have a they're all back loaded here.

If I just throw out like this one put to death therefore this is

Colossians 3 5 put to death therefore what is earthly in you. And listen to this list sexual immorality impurity passion evil desire and covetousness which is idolatry.

So I mean we we've kind of you know so and you know to your point you know if you want to steal your brother's ten dollars.

I mean that that's that's kind of the the small potato thing we really have to go but Charlie real quick. Yes. And that's right.

Exactly. What we've done is essentially trade the piece of trusting God into the stress.

You know to use a modern word of not knowing what's going to happen and not knowing what's going to happen to our money.

You know and. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway we have to pray. Father thank you for this time this morning for this discussion.

Lord help us to just really think through these issues and all the ancillary things that are attached to gambling and the ideas behind it.

Father help us to look at it. And you know even if we just thought about it this way if the world loves something what should we think of it.

And I think at the very least Lord I hope you would give us a caution a warning you know a big yellow line that we would really consider these things and Lord strengthen and give us grace in these things.