December 7, 2017 Show with Greg Nichols on “The Doctrine of Christ: The Plan, Promise & Accomplishment of Salvation”

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnton. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnton, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday. On this seventh day of December 2017, and before I introduce my guest today and our topic,

I just wanted to say a few words about the historic significance of today.

Today, as most of you may know, it is 76 years ago today, on December 7th, 1941, on a day that will live in infamy, 2 ,403

Americans who were prepared to do battle to preserve the freedoms we Americans cherish perished when the

Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. Many more Americans, along with our allied soldiers already in battle, would also perish multitudes of them in unspeakably gruesome ways for the cause of freedom after entering into World War II.

Let us pray that God has mercy on all of us in countries who accomplished victory and ended that war, and yet still witness cherished freedoms stripped away from us, one by one.

I am quite certain that not a single one of those brave soldiers who sacrificed their limbs and lives had even for a second thought of the notion that they were risking all to preserve the hellish activity that the left calls behavior bought by liberty.

And that's just my word for today on December 7th, 2017. Well, today, we have returning to the program a dear friend of mine who

I love to interview. He's one of my favorite guests, and according to those of you listening, apparently he's one of your favorite guests, too, to listen to on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio.

His name is Pastor Greg Nichols, and he's one of three pastors at Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

He's the author of What Does the Bible Say About God? The Biblical Doctrine of God, Truth for Eternity, and the multi -volume series

Lectures in Systematic Theology. And today, he's going to be addressing the doctrine of Christ, the plan, the promise, and the accomplishment of salvation.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio, Pastor Greg Nichols.

Thank you. It is my privilege and, as always, a delight to speak with you,

Chris. Well, I really appreciate that. And before we go into the topic, once again, because of the fact that we do have listeners, new listeners, that are joining our program, it seems, every single day, tell our listeners something about Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Well, it is a church that holds to the Confession, the 1689 London Confession of Faith, a society of sinners saved by grace, a society of people that loves

Christ, loves the Gospel of Christ, wants to see the Gospel spread around the world.

And right now, I'm thankful to say that we enjoy peace and unity and a sense of church family and love.

And God has abundantly blessed our church in many, many ways. We're especially thankful for a young man who's been a pastor now with us for 10 years, and now is taking over most of the preaching responsibilities, named

Jeff Johnson. And it's been a delight to have him with us. He's one of the three that you mentioned.

The other is Dave Merck, and then, of course, myself. Great. Well, anybody that is either living in the

Grand Rapids, Michigan area, or if you are visiting there, or if you have family and friends who are living there, you can find out more about that church,

Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church, by going to their website, which is girbc .org,

g -i -r -b -c .org, which stands for Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church. And hopefully, we'll be repeating that later on during the program.

If anybody would like to join us with a question of your own today, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, such as you disagree with your own pastor on an issue we are speaking about.

Perhaps you're a pastor who disagrees with your own denomination or something like that. We can understand that you would desire to remain anonymous.

But other than that, please give us your first name, city and state, country of residence. Well, I know that this topic that we are discussing today,

The Doctrine of Christ, The Plan, Promise, and Accomplishment of Salvation, that is a part of your lectures in Systematic Theology, is it not?

That is correct, it is. And which volume is this? This, God willing, is Volume 3.

Great. And I know that Solid Ground Christian Books carries everything that you write, and I'm sure they'll be carrying this as well.

And if anybody wants to look up that information to keep up to date as to when Volume 3 will actually be in print, that website is solid -ground -books .com.

Pastor Greg, do you want to give an overview of the lectures in Systematic Theology as a whole before we go into this specific topic?

I think that's probably good to put it in perspective, thank you. Volume 1 is The Doctrine of God. Volume 2 is

The Doctrine of Man, or the Original Creation. Volume 3, The Doctrine of Christ. Volume 4,

The Doctrine of the Church. Volume 5, The Doctrine of the Christian Life. Volume 6,

The Doctrine of the Holy Spirit and His Person and Work. And then Volume 7, The Doctrine of the

Last Things, the Completion of Salvation. And the basic structure is that when you're focused on what does the

Bible say our faith should focus on, it is what does it say about God and His works.

I know that's not the total, it's what does the Bible say about itself, the doctrine of Scripture, what does it say about Christian duty, the doctrine of ethics.

But I'm basically focusing on what I call didactics, what we are to believe concerning God, and the great focal points,

God and His great works of creation and salvation. And with respect to salvation, you have

Salvation Planned, Salvation Promised, Salvation Accomplished, Salvation Applied, and Salvation Completed.

So because of the typical structure of instruction where you have three -hour courses that everybody wants today, that gives you 36 hours over 12 weeks, when you do that, when you start talking about Salvation Planned and Promised and Accomplished and Applied and Completed, it winds up being five different courses because of the amount of material that's found in the

Bible. So I cover in the Doctrine of Christ, Salvation Planned, Promised, and Accomplished.

The Doctrine of Salvation Applied is where the testimony of Scripture really starts to just explode, and it develops into three courses, the

Doctrine of the Church, the Doctrine of the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit, and the Doctrine of the Christian Life, which would involve the blessings of salvation, regeneration, faith, repentance, adoption, sanctification, and justification, so on, and adoption, so on, and so forth.

And then, of course, the Completion of Salvation is another course. So because of the amount of biblical material, it turns out, and because of the way we teach in three -hour courses, 36 lecture hours, you wind up with an awful lot of time.

180 hours on Salvation developed into five different courses. So what I'm speaking about today is

Volume 3, which, God willing, will be out, published sometime around July 2018.

Volume 2 is scheduled to be published sometime Christmas 2017. Between Christmas and New Year's, Volume 2, the

Doctrine of the Original Creation, often called the Doctrine of Man, should be out. So that, I hope, puts it into perspective, as the other ones, the

Application of Salvation involving the Doctrine of the Church and the Holy Spirit and the Christian Life, I'm looking at maybe for December 2018 for the

Doctrine of the Church at Basel, and then sometime in 2019 for the Holy Spirit and the

Christian Life, and this is, of course, all God willing. And then 2020 for the last thing.

That's my plan as I sit here today, but God is in control, and only

He knows the future, Chris. That's right. I know that our mutual friend Rob Ventura had a lot to do with this project, correct?

It is true. Rob, probably it's fair to say, if it had not been for Rob Ventura, this would not have ever have happened.

I would not myself have had the moxie, if that's the right word, to bring this thing to pass, but Rob Ventura has been behind this from the beginning, and he has promoted it, and he has supported it and helped me do it.

Also, Cameron Porter, a pastor from Canada, has also been very much involved in helping with the production of this work.

He helped me to set it up in various ways and edit it, and so I'm very thankful to those two men, but especially

Rob Ventura. You're absolutely right. And it's been a while since I've had Pastor Rob on the program.

I would appreciate it if you could extend to him my greetings and also my invitation to him to be on the program sometime,

God willing, within the next couple of months. Okay, it's the least I could do. I laugh when

I say that, because one of my friends in Grand Rapids told me his interpretation of what that expression, the least

I could do, really means. He says, he alleges that it means I would do less if I could. Well, if anybody, just to give

Rob a plug also, if anybody is visiting the, or living in the

Providence, Rhode Island area, or if you have friends and family that live there already, you can look up information for the church where he serves as pastor,

Grace Community Baptist Church in North Providence, Rhode Island. And the website is gcbcri .org,

G -C for Grace Community, B -C for Baptist Church, R -I for RhodeIsland .org. Well, this is a vital topic to the

Christian faith. I'm sure that a lot of what we discuss is actually essential to the

Christian faith and essential to the personal faith of each and every individual that wants to have assurance that they are genuinely one of God's children.

But if you could even start with the title, people might be scratching their head, especially if they are outside of Reformed theology or outside of those who are typically more meticulous when it comes to doctrine and theology.

They might be puzzled by that phrase, the doctrine of Christ. In some people's minds, that's even an oxymoron, because they think that doctrine is what's dividing the body of Christ, and we would be all better off if there was more focus on Christ and less on doctrine.

So this may puzzle some or many, the doctrine of Christ. If you could explain that. That's an interesting point,

Chris, that you make. According to Ephesians chapter 4, verses 11 through 16, it is not doctrine that divides

God's people. He talks there about us all attaining the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the

Son of God unto a full -grown man to the fullness of the stature of Christ, no longer children tossed to and fro every wind of doctrine by the slight of men, by the wiles of error, but speaking truth in love.

So it's not truth, sound doctrine, that divides people.

It's false doctrine, error, the wiles of error, that divides people.

Not truth. Sound doctrine unifies God's people, because in the very context of that section of Ephesians, he says in verse 3 that you should give diligence to preserve the unity of the

Spirit and the bond of peace. Then he goes on to describe what are the essential aspects or foundations of unity.

What do you need for unity? Well, first of all, you need grace in your heart. You're not going to have unity if your heart is full of selfishness and carnal anger.

That's going to create division in the Church. Then he goes on to say that the next thing that you need for unity is you need to have a converted group of people, because you can't have unity between the devil's children and Christ's children.

But then the third thing that he goes to say about unity, which he says starting in verse 7 only through verse 16, is that if you're going to have unity, you have to have faithful pastoral ministry that is grounding

God's people in the sound doctrines of the Christian faith and grounding them to the point where all of God's people, the people sitting in the pews or the chairs, attain to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the

Son of God. So the knowledge of Christ, what the Bible says about Christ, about his person, about his work, so far as that from dividing

God's people, it's the very thing that unifies God's people. Amen. Well, let's move on to the first thing under this umbrella heading.

Let's move on to the plan of salvation, if you could start by that.

There are even some who militate against using that term, the plan. They'll say, salvation is not a plan, it's a person,

I'm sorry. It's Jesus Christ. It's not a plan. So if you could explain what you mean by the plan of salvation.

Well, the Bible very clearly teaches that God purposed, planned, intended, designed, decided, ordained salvation before he actually did it.

Before the foundation of the world, when only God was. God decided,

God planned, God chose, God ordained, God ruled to save, and he decided how he would save, and he decided whom he would save, before the foundation of the world,

God planned, God decided, God determined it all. And the Bible says that repeatedly, clearly, emphatically, patently, so clear that, well, it's hard to see how you could miss it.

Yeah, I think that some people, when they use that phrase, salvation is a person, not a plan,

I think that many of them are referring to the fact that it is not a series of steps and a plan that we must accomplish before achieving eternal life, like some non -reformed religions that would profess to be

Christian might say, that we have our salvation in Christ, that it could be that that was what most people mean by that.

But tell us about what you mean by Christ having a plan. Well, what I mean, let me back up.

Okay, I understand what you're saying, that's a very good point, and in that sense I would agree that salvation isn't a person, not in a plan or a way or a set of steps that mankind does by works.

I totally agree with that. What I mean by plan is something very different. I'm talking about an eternal plan.

Amen. God formed before the foundation of the world when only God was. And similarly, when

I'm speaking about promise, I'm talking about a solemn promise that God made before He sent

Christ to accomplish salvation. That promise He began to make in Genesis 3 .15,

when He said right after the fall, when He said, I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed, and He will bruise your head and you'll bruise

His heel, He started to promise salvation before He sent Christ to accomplish it.

And He set up a remarkable framework of promises over some 4 ,000 years, and then

He sent Christ in history to accomplish salvation in that framework of solemn promises that God Himself established.

So I'm talking about an eternal plan that God made and God decided when only

God was before the foundation of the world. I'm talking about a solemn promise that God gave right after the fall and enhanced it in many ways over some 4 ,000 years before He actually sent

Christ in history to accomplish salvation through His person and work, through His perfect life, atoning death, bodily resurrection from the grave.

So that's the framework in which I'm thinking when I use that terminology, Chris. Amen. And the thing that obviously separates we who are

Reformed from not only the rest of the world's religions but from other branches of Christendom is that we believe that Christ has accomplished our way of salvation, or should

I say has accomplished our salvation, our redemption. And the issue is settled even though we have a life to live here on earth that involves us being born totally depraved and living a period of our lives some longer than others before we are regenerate.

And then, of course, we will be continually sanctified where our regeneration is a one -time event and our justification is a one -time event.

Our sanctification is an ongoing development until we are glorified in heaven. But our brethren in Christ outside of our circles militate against the fact that this is something that Christ has already finalized and perfected before we were born.

The Bible presents a remarkable distinction. It presents a remarkable distinction between what

Christ did 2 ,000 years ago here on earth, accomplishing salvation, and what happens to us in our life history when

God applies salvation through the gospel. And here's the point.

What God does in our life history when he applies salvation to us through the gospel converts us, you said regenerates us, gives us spiritual life, gives us faith, and gives us repentance.

He justifies us by means of faith. He sanctifies us by the

Holy Spirit that he gives to us. All that happens in our life history precisely because Jesus accomplished salvation while he was here on earth 2 ,000 years ago.

So there's a connection that can never be broken between what Jesus did in accomplishing salvation for us, and what happens to us, and what

God does to us when he applies salvation to us. Philippians 129 says, to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ not only to suffer but also to believe.

Not only to believe but also to suffer on his behalf. To you it has been granted on behalf of Christ to believe.

You have been granted to believe in the application of salvation in your life history on behalf of Christ who accomplished salvation for you 2 ,000 years ago.

And the reason God gives you faith and the reason God regenerates you is because Jesus died for you.

Amen. Jesus accomplished salvation for you. And if Jesus accomplishes it for you,

God absolutely certainly will apply it to you. And if God planned it, then

Jesus accomplishes it, and God applies it. Because he predestined us to be conformed to the image of his

Son and his plan of salvation, and he sent Christ to accomplish it. And whom he predestined in the application of salvation, then he also called, then he also justified.

And whoever he calls and justifies in the application of salvation, then he also glorifies in the completion of salvation.

Amen. So even though God's elect people have a guarantee that they will be saved from the moment he elected us, that does not mean we were always, quote, quote, saved.

We lived lives just like those who were made out of the same lump of clay that we were, who are reprobate, who are rebelling against God, who want nothing to do with God.

We were living just like they were before God gave us the gift of regeneration.

So even though we were guaranteed salvation before the foundation of the world, we weren't always saved. Yes. One of the great mysteries of Scripture, and a passage that puts this in perspective so clearly is

Ephesians chapter 2, verses 1 to 3. It says, in verse 4, it talks about, but God, being rich in mercy with his great love with which he loved us even when we were dead, made us alive.

That's the application of redemption. He took us from spiritual death to spiritual life.

But what were we before? We were doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind.

We were living in sin. And here's the point. We were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Even as the rest. We were children of wrath. We were not justified.

We were under his wrath. And if I had died before I came to faith, under his wrath,

I would have gone to hell. But that's not going to happen. That can't happen. Because every single one for whom

Christ died, and every single one that God selected before the foundation of the world, every one of them will certainly be called out of darkness to light, will be brought from death to life.

But before they are, we're not justified. They're children of wrath by nature, even as the rest.

Conversion is not superfluous. It is absolutely essential to go to heaven.

Faith is the means of justification. You're not justified as an unconverted elect person while you're a child of wrath, even as the rest.

You're not justified before the foundation of the world. You're justified when you believe by means of faith.

And before you believe, even if you're elect, you're by nature a child of wrath, even as the rest, and under the wrath of God.

The great mysteries of scripture. It's a marvelous thing. Then he goes on to say, but God, being rich in mercy, with his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead, made us alive together in Christ.

He set his love on us before the foundation of the world. Christ died for us. In due season, while we're yet weak,

Christ died for the ungodly. Amen. He loved us when we were dead in our sins.

And he loved us with an unconditional love that we didn't earn and we didn't merit.

What did we do when we were dead in our sins to earn his love that made us alive from the dead?

Absolutely nothing. Amen. On the ground of the fact that he loved us because he would love us with his everlasting love,

I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore with loving kindness have I drawn you. And Christ died for us because God loved us.

He sent Christ to die for us, and because God loved us and Christ died for us, he made us alive together with Christ.

He that did not spare his own son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?

Amen. So that's another great mystery. Boy, that's a great mystery of scripture, that even though we were dead in our sins, and even though if we had died in those sins we were children of wrath and would have gone to hell just like anybody else, that's never going to happen to one of God's elect.

He will always bring them to faith. If Christ died for them, they will not perish.

They cannot perish. If he planned their salvation and Christ accomplished their salvation, then that salvation certainly will be applied.

Does that mean that we should not pray? Because, well, it's going to happen, it's going to happen. Does that make us fatalists?

Absolutely not. May it never be, because God uses means, and he's the one who ordained the ends also ordained the means.

So pray and parent and preach, because God blesses the means that he ordained as the means of saving sinners.

Amen. Amen. I hope that you have at least a small gathering in the room where you are, so it really could be identical to a church service with the exception that I'm interrupting you with questions occasionally, but I love the fact that every time

I interview you there's a sermon there being preached. I just love it. Not just me in the room, that's all.

Of course, a few of my old friends. I'm in my office, so a few of my old friends are here.

They're always with me, that I read in my books. And I'm going to read you a question before we go to the break, and then

I'll have you answer it before the break. As you wish. And maybe you could tell me right now, because you may not know this specific realm of theology, because it's,

I don't know how well known to most Christians the 16th century monk

Louis Molina is, but our questioner from Slovenia, Joe, says,

Dear brothers Chris and Greg, grateful greetings from Slovenia. As it relates to the promise and accomplishment of salvation, what are the specific biblical and theological errors of Molinism?

In addition, does Molinism based on those errors qualify as heresy, heterodoxy, or within the scope of orthodoxy?

Thank you so very much for bringing us such a high level of theological edification. And I know that one of the, today, one of the most popular

Christian apologists who identifies himself as a Molinist is William Lane Craig, but I find it very confusing, but perhaps if you know anything about this you can answer his questions when we return from the break.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing we'll be right back with Greg Nichols right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Well, we are now back with our guest today, Pastor Greg Nichols of Grace Emmanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

He is also the author of the multi -volume series Lectures in Systematic Theology.

Today we are discussing the doctrine of Christ, the plan, the promise, and accomplishment of salvation.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And before the break, I read you a question from Joe in Slovenia, and he says, as it relates to the plan, promise, and accomplishment of salvation, what are the specific biblical and theological errors of Molinism?

In addition, does Molinism, based on those errors, qualify as a heresy, heterodoxy, or within the scope of orthodoxy?

Okay, let me just say, I only have a very general and vague awareness of this issue in the most general terms.

I think it's about the doctrine of God and an attempt to reconcile

God's control over everything and man's free will.

And also, it has something to do with the issue of God's knowledge,

God's omniscience. And so in the doctrine of God, I would teach that God knows all things actual, historical, factual, past, present, future, and He also knows all things possible.

And so God knows, under every set of circumstances, what would have happened if.

So rather than try to evaluate something of which I only have that very basic general awareness,

I'll stay away from that, and I'll just say something about how

Jesus says something about God's plan of salvation that's really quite striking, almost shocking, in evangelism.

And He talks about God's complete knowledge of what would have happened if. And He does that in order to warn sinners.

In Matthew chapter 11, in evangelism, He brings up, by way of implication, the reprobation of Sodom.

And He says, we read in Matthew 11, then He began, verse 20, to upbraid the cities wherein most of His mighty works were done, because they did not repent.

And then He warns them, and He says, But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

And then He says to Capernaum, But I say to you, verse 24, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.

Now why is that? Why is He warning these people, that if they continue in their impenitence and unbelief, it'll be better off for Sodom on judgment day than it'll be for them.

Well then He gets into this mystery of God's knowledge of all things possible.

And He uses it to warn these people, not to despise the privilege of the gospel like they have.

And He uses the reprobation of Sodom to do that. And in doing so,

He teaches unconditional election. And let's get into it.

He says in verse 21, Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you,

Bethsaida! For if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon that were done in you, they would have repented long ago.

Sackclaw finishes. He says, Woe to you, Capernaum! If the mighty works had been done in Sodom that were done in you, it would have remained until this day.

You stop and think about that for a while, and that's going to blow your mind.

Amen. All right. Jesus says, if He had gone to Sodom and done

His gospel work, it would still be here. What?

What, Jesus? So He looks back with hindsight that is inspired.

How does He know that, by the way? Think about that. Think about that.

How could He possibly know that? But if He did know that with inspired hindsight, then certainly the omniscient

God knew that with infinite foresight.

Amen. So He knew, and Christ knew before the foundation of the world, that if Christ had gone to Sodom, Sodom would still be here.

It isn't that He didn't go to Sodom because He foresaw that they wouldn't believe and wouldn't repent.

The truth is, He didn't go there even though He foresaw that they would have repented, at least 10 of them.

With Abraham's, quote, deal in his prayer, if there's 10 righteous, spare the city.

That's right. It would have been spared because there would have been 10 righteous if Jesus had gone there. So He decided not to go there, not because He foresaw they wouldn't have repented and wouldn't have believed.

No, that's a conditional election. That's false. Yes, it's interesting that even the angels...

You understand what I'm saying to you? Yeah. So the point is, well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, they couldn't have believed that they hadn't been regenerated.

That's right. So what Jesus is saying is in the whole plan of God, the

Supreme Being considered the case of Sodom. And if Christ had been sent there,

Christ would have pleaded with the Father. There would have been at least 10 converts. Christ never would have been sent there without at least 10 converts being made in their decision.

That's what they would have done. And He knew that because He's God. And He knew that they decided to make

Sodom an example of reprobation and not to go there and spare the city.

That's God's sovereign, unconditional decree of election. Amen. And Jesus alludes to it.

Amen. And it's mysterious. It's utterly, it's utterly mysterious and mind -boggling.

And Jesus speaks of it in evangelism.

And the reason He speaks of it is His heart is moved. He sees these people in Capernaum that have seen miracles that He says if Sodom had seen these miracles, at least 10 people would have repented and the place would still be here.

And He sees these people and He's saying, you're facing a worse judgment because you're despising the gospel light, the great gospel light that we never would have sent to Sodom if we hadn't intended to save 10 and regenerate at least 10.

So we send this great gospel light to you. And the vast majority of the people of this city, I'm not saying there weren't 10 converts, but the vast majority of the people of Capernaum didn't repent, rejected

Christ. And as a result, we're facing a worse damnation than the damnation of Sodom.

And Jesus was moved with compassion and He was warning. And He used reprobation, the reprobation of Sodom to warn those people with that great gospel light and privilege to get right with God.

So I mean, you know, that text may often be used with regard to this whole issue of what would have happened if and God knows all things possible and all the rest.

I'm not trying to say I can solve that mystery. I'm just saying that there is a place in which

Christ uses even that mystery to motivate sinners to get right with God.

Amen. And it's interesting that the angels that went to Sodom, they had no gospel or no message of deliverance for anyone in that city.

They just had the testimony of Lot saying, my brethren, what are you doing this wicked stuff for? Righteous Lot vexed his gold day by day living among them.

But anyway, that's what Jesus says. He reflects on the fact that God knows what would have happened if.

God always knows all the potential of everything that could have happened, would have happened if God knows all that in His omniscience.

He not only knows all things actual, He knows all things possible. And the difference between all things possible and all things actual is

God's sovereign choice of His will, because He decided, among all the possible things, what would actually happen.

He decided that in His eternal decree before the foundation of the world. Knowing all things possible,

His will determined what all things actual would be. Amen. And so those that uh, militate against there being a fixed number of gods elect before the foundation of the world, who even militate against the concept, the very concept of reprobation, they would have to ask themselves in an example like Sodom, why on earth did not the angels evangelize to the rest of Sodom?

Why didn't, when the fire was raining down upon that city, why didn't any of them that we have in the biblical record fall to their knees in repentance and cry out for mercy and get saved?

It's because they were reprobate. Oh yes, and it goes deeper,

I mean it's this way, nobody has the right to salvation. That's right. Nobody has the right.

God sends salvation when and where He pleases.

We all in Adam deserve to go to hell. We're all conceived dead, trespassers in sins, and under the wrath of God.

There's none righteous, no, not one. We all deserve to go to hell. And if God saves any, it's of mercy, thanks to God, and blessed be

His name. None of us is owed salvation. Amen. All we deserve is damnation and wrath.

So you have to look at it that way, because when

Jesus said very clearly, what do you do with what Jesus said? I mean, if He had gone to Sodom, Sodom would still be here.

That's what He said. He didn't go to Sodom, knowing

He had gone there would still be here. Right. And when did that get decided? That got decided before the foundation of the world.

Amen. And who decided that? Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. And that's how

He knows, because He was there. Amen. I mean, it's a remarkable statement, but I mean, it clearly, clearly, emphatically shows that God knows anything that possibly could happen.

Amen. And He decides what actually will happen. Amen. You know, there are those that would even consider themselves

Calvinists of some sort, who also get things mixed up. Those that are hyper -Calvinists, and I'm speaking specifically amongst, and I don't want to broad brush, because I'm not saying that every primitive

Baptist is like this, but many primitive Baptists would equate, even if they would never say it this way, they equate election with salvation.

And they do not require, as a litmus test, repentance and faith to give anyone assurance that they are saved, because they believe that there will be elect of God who never come to faith in Christ on this earth, who will enter into heaven as Muslims and all kinds of pagan religious people, because they so far separate the preaching of the gospel and the believing of the gospel from regeneration and from salvation, that they wind up with a very strange form of Calvinism.

And not all hyper -Calvinists are like that. You have people in the Netherlands Reformed denomination, or on the other extreme, where they have the gates of heaven being far tinier than the

Bible would speak of, and that we would believe. They could have a congregation of a thousand people, and only five people sometimes will have the

Lord's Supper, because they're the only ones that think that they're of the elect. But this is another danger of blurring when

I'm speaking of the Primitive Baptists. Not all of them, but the hyper -Calvinistic ones among them, do they not seem to make synonymous election and predestination with salvation?

Well, first of all, I'm glad that you qualified what you said and said not all of them. Right. One of my most dearest, beloved friends in the whole world was raised a

Primitive Baptist and very much involved in Primitive Baptist for much of his life, and he's now in heaven.

And of course, in his soul, he struggled greatly with so many of those that he knew and that he loved that were entangled in hyper -Calvinism, as you point out.

So it's good that you qualify it and don't just with a broad brush paint all the

Primitive Baptists with that label, because that would not be accurate and wouldn't be right, wouldn't be charitable.

And how would I look my friend in the face when I got to heaven if I didn't say that?

I'd say to him. When you're in heaven, I don't think that issue is even going to matter.

I mean, you're right, it won't, but you know what I mean. Yes, I do. We have to go to a break right now, actually.

This is our elongated break. Okay. All right, I'll address it when, God willing, when we get back.

Yeah, because Grace Life Radio in Lake City, Florida requires a 12 -minute break between our two -hour segments.

So please be patient with us, and please write in your questions and send them to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

chrisarnson at gmail .com during the break. Don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back with more of Greg Nichols.

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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man or of God, or am

I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen. Before we return to our discussion with Greg Nichols, that involves his

Lectures in Systematic Theology, a multi -volume series that is now going into part three, actually in print, and there are more volumes intended for the years to come.

But we are talking about the doctrine of Christ, the plan, promise, and accomplishment of salvation.

Before we return to that, we have some important announcements to make. First of all, this Friday, tomorrow,

December 8th, from 1130 a .m. to 1 p .m., the CBMC of Central Pennsylvania, and that stands for Christian Businessmen's Connection, are having a special Christmas luncheon, and all are welcome to attend at the

Comfort Suites in downtown Carlisle. The keynote speaker is my dear friend

Marcus A. McKnight III. He's an attorney. He's also a former elder at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, where I am a member, and he is now a member of the

West Shore Evangelical Free Church in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, but Marcus is going to be speaking on the theme,

Joseph the Quiet Hero of Christmas. If you would like to register, call 717 -249 -2353, 717 -249 -2353.

If you mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, your $20 registration fee will be waived, and you will get in absolutely free of charge.

So please, if you live near Carlisle, Pennsylvania, I hope to see you tomorrow from 1130 a .m.

to 1 p .m. for the CBMC Christmas luncheon on the theme,

Joseph the Quiet Hero of Christmas, featuring Marcus A. McKnight III. Call 717 -249 -2353, mention

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and get in for free. Then, coming up in January from the 17th through the 20th, the

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G3 stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory, in case you're wondering, and the theme this January is Knowing God, a

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Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and a Muslim apologist. We'll give you more details on exactly who he is and what the theme will be in the days to come.

And then from the 18th through the 20th is the remainder of the G3 Conference, which is entirely in English, and the speakers include

Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B. Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bryce, James White, Tom Askell, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, Martha Peace, and Justin Peters.

If you'd like to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and please let them know that you heard about the

G3 Conference from Chris Arnzen on Iron Trap and Zion Radio. Now comes that time of the program that I dislike the most, and that is begging you for money.

As most of you know who have listened to this program going back to 2005, for the vast majority of this program's existence,

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So please never siphon money out of your giving to your local church, and never take food off of your family's dinner table if you're struggling to make ends meet, but if you can financially obey those two commands, then please, if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, and you love this show, and you don't want us to disappear, please consider donating a check of any size that you can afford to Iron Trap and Zion Radio, and please give as often as you can, and if you want to advertise with us, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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The Doctrine of Christ, The Plan, Promise, and Accomplishment of Salvation. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the good old

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And before the break,

Pastor Greg, we were discussing the hyper -Calvinistic tendencies of many, not all, primitive

Baptists who would blur the distinction between election, predestination, and actual salvation.

If you could continue your comments on that. Okay. What I'd like to do is not just single out, if I may, either, you mentioned too, you mentioned the

Netherlands Reform and primitive Baptists. Yeah, the Netherlands Reform have an opposite hyper -Calvinism, where they think that hardly anyone is going to heaven, a number far smaller than we who are historically faithful and biblically faithful Calvinists would believe, and they even go as far as to believing you have to have some kind of special supernatural experience or something to be confident that you're of the elect, but anyway.

Yes, there are different stripes and shades and types of hyper -Calvinist thinking, it's true.

So what I would prefer to do is, rather than zero in on one type or the other type,

I would just like to get into what is the foundation that drives people to hyper -Calvinism.

Right. There is something that makes it very, very difficult to avoid either

Arminianism on one extreme or hyper -Calvinism on the other. It's extremely difficult to walk the razor's edge of faith, and I would like to just address that, if I may, because that's a very important part of the doctrine of Christ, and in the providence of God, Jesus actually addresses that tension in the very passage that we were talking about, about God's plan,

God knowing all things possible, God deciding what's actually going to happen, because it pleased

Him, not because He foresaw what this one would do, or that one would do, He didn't choose people because He foresaw they would repent.

That conditional election is false, and Jesus said so. But then look what Jesus goes on to say next.

He goes on to address the tension between the sovereignty of God and the free offer of the gospel and salvation.

He says, at that season, so He's still thinking about people rejecting gospel light, and He says, at that season,

Jesus answered and said, Matthew 11, 25, I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you hid these things from the wise and understanding, and revealed them to babes.

Yes, Father, for so it was well pleasing in your sight.

So, Jesus says that with respect to the application of salvation,

God does not do the same thing to everyone alike.

You hid these things from the wise and revealed them unto babes.

And why? Because it was well pleasing in your sight.

Amen. Without getting bogged down in exegesis,

Christ is basically observing that the vast majority of the religious leaders, the men of renown, the rich, the brokers of power and influence among the

Jews in His generation rejected His ministry. And He attributes that to God's action of hiding these things from the wise and prudent.

Because these leaders rejected Christ because His Father hid saving knowledge of His Son from their eyes.

And in stark contrast, many ordinary people, babes, received

His ministry because the Father revealed saving knowledge of Christ to them.

He discriminated. He didn't do the same thing to everyone alike. He hid it from some.

He revealed it to others. Why? Yes, Father, because it was well pleasing in your sight.

God's sovereign prerogative. But Paul goes and tells us in another text that God is not totally arbitrary with regard to this, where He says, not many wise, look at your calling, brethren, not many mighty, not many noble, but God chose the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, the weak things to put to shame the strong, the base things, the things that are despised, the things that are nothing to bring to nothing, the things that are that no flesh should glory before God.

So God has chosen His people with a distinctive purpose to drain us of every ounce of pride so that He would receive all the glory for the application of redemption.

So He hides it from the wise and prudent. He reveals it to babes. It's well pleasing in His sight.

So He will get all the honor and all the praise and all the glory.

So that's what Jesus is saying actually happens in history. And Jesus is saying,

I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that in your sovereignty, you so order the application of salvation, which means in sovereignty,

He so ordered the planning of salvation, because what He does in history is exactly what He planned in eternity.

I thank you, Father, that you so ordered the application of salvation, that you get all the glory and people have nothing to brag about.

Amen. It's absolutely sovereign, the application of salvation. So now that's the background.

Now look what He says next. This is the mystery. This is the tension.

After He extols and blesses God for His absolute sovereignty in His discriminating actions, in applying salvation in such a way that He doesn't do the same thing for and to everybody, and He does that so He'll get all the glory and people won't be able to brag.

Then He goes on to say this. All things have been delivered to me of my

Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Neither does any know the

Father except the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son wills to reveal Him. Amen.

And He says, come to me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, learn of me, because I'm me, and lowly of heart, and you'll find rest to your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Now there you have the free offer of the gospel.

He's talking about unconditional reprobation. Gospel discrimination, where God hides it from some people and reveals it to others, so He'll get all the glory, and He brings it to the closest, most intimate connection with an indiscriminate, well -meant, sincere offer of the gospel.

Amen. Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest, permanent deliverance from your spiritual burden.

Every sinner that comes to me in repentance and faith, I'll give you rest. He displays sincerity, goodwill.

He motivates them to come by saying, I'm approachable, I'm gracious, I'm meek, lowly of heart.

My yoke is easy, my burden is light. And so the well -meant, indiscriminate, free, sincere offer of the gospel harmonizes in God's Word with unconditional predestination, gospel discrimination, and sovereign grace.

Amen. And Jesus brings them right there, right together. Now this involves mystery.

It involves inexplicable mystery. It involves mystery that can never be solved by human philosophy, by human logic, by human wisdom.

I remember, Chris, I struggled with this when I was a young Christian. I was studying at the academy in New Jersey, and I could not illustrate it.

Every time in my, you know, I was Calvinistic. I believed in sovereignty of God and salvation, but I couldn't explain how

God could be sincerely offering Christ to totally depraved and totally unable people who could never respond to that offer positively unless he regenerated them.

It's impossible. They can't do it. The carnal mind is entity against God, not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be.

They have no ability to come to Christ. Amen. They sincerely offer Christ if he knows they have no ability to come to Christ, and he has no intention of giving him that ability.

And I'm struggling with this, and I can't logically see how this could possibly get together. And this is the root, this very seeming contradiction is the root that drives people to hyper -Calvinism on the one hand or to Arminianism on the other, either to deny the sovereignty of God or to deny the well -meant offer of salvation to people that are totally depraved and totally unable who cannot respond in faith and repentance unless God draws them, unless God regenerates them.

So that's the struggle, and I'm struggling with that. I didn't know what to say, so I just kept my mouth shut.

Then I was in class, and I was studying the doctrine of man, and I'm reading

Professor Murray, and I'm studying the fall, and Professor Murray talks about the three problems that cannot be solved associated with the fall.

And one of those problems is a seeming contradiction between God's sovereign will, God's decree of will, and God's revealed will.

And the sovereign will of God says, you will certainly fall. I will it.

You will eat from the tree. But the revealed will of God says,

I don't want you to eat from the tree. Don't eat from the tree. I have no pleasure in you eating from the tree.

If you eat from the tree, you're going to die. I don't want you to do it. I warn you not to do it.

I have no pleasure in you doing it, and I'm going to punish you if you do it. And yet God ordained that he does it, and God willed that he does it, and God decided that he'd do it.

And Professor Murray says, there is no way to explain that seeming contradiction. You just have to live with the fact that the

Bible teaches both God's sovereignty over sin and man's responsibility for sin.

And when I read that, and I thought about that, I said, booing, the light went on!

That's the exact same problem I've been struggling with. It's the, what

Mary calls, ontological problem, that the seeming contradiction between God's revealed will and God's sovereign decree, because God's sovereign decree says, you're not going to repent.

You're not going to believe. I'm going to offer you Christ, and you're not going to come. And because you reject my sincere, well -meant offer of mercy, you're going to a hotter hell than Sodom.

That's the decree. And yet the revealed will of God says, I don't want you to die.

I want you to repent. I want you to believe. Why will you die? Why will you stay in your sin?

I have no pleasure in your sin. Don't stay in your sin. I don't want you to sin. I don't want you to die.

You can't explain it. There's no way human logic or philosophy can put together the seeming contradiction between God's revealed will and God's sovereign decree.

And that impossibility is what drives people to hyper -Calvinism, because we're not going to give up Calvinism.

We're not going to give up God's sovereignty. So unless we're prepared to humble our minds and submit ourselves to the

Word of God, we're going to wind up in some form of hyper -Calvinism, because the free offer of the gospel is simply not logically consistent from man's one limited point of view.

There is a seeming, not real, contradiction between God's revealed will that says, come to me, all you that are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That says, goodness of God leads you to repentance. That says, these things have

I spoken to you that you might be saved. That says, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that he turn and live.

Turn ye, turn ye, why will you die? That's God's revealed will, and yet God's secret decree says,

I'm not going to regenerate you. I'm not going to create faith in you. I'm not going to give you the regeneration, repentance, and faith that will bring you to salvation.

I can't explain it, but I'll tell you what. I am not going to give up either the absolute sovereignty of God and salvation, or the sincere, well -meant, free offer of the gospel, because the

Bible clearly teaches both. And I can't explain how they fit together, but once I realized that I was dealing with the same problem, the same problem of the same proportions, inexplicable proportions, as the ontological problem associated with the fallen, then

I had peace, because I said, I don't have to explain it. I know I can't explain it.

Now I have peace. Now what I have to tell people is, I want to make it so clear why you can't explain it, so that you understand, hold to everything the

Word of God says, and don't exalt human logic and human philosophy above the

Word of God. Amen. And I think we also, which goes right on the heels of what you said, we have to consider the whole counsel of God whenever we are developing an established theology in our hearts and minds.

We have to always consider the whole counsel of God, because both the Hyper -Calvinist and the

Arminian seem to only—although they would never admit this—they seem to only hold to the portions of the

Bible that agree with their presuppositions on doctrine. Well, it's difficult to hold to things that you can't logically explain how they all fit together.

I'm sympathetic with people that struggle with that. As I told you, my story of how I struggled with it, and what the

Lord used to get me free from it, when I realized that there was no logical solution.

I had to just embrace the Word of God, and I was dealing with a problem of the same proportions as God's sovereignty over sin and man's responsibility for sin, that God is sovereign over sin, that God is not the author of sin,

God is not guilty of sin, and God doesn't want people to sin even though God ordained that they sin.

His revealed will says, I don't want you to sin. His secret will says, you will sin. I can't explain that.

And there he says, nobody can. And I think he's right. And I think it's a problem of the same proportion.

If we realize what a serious problem we're dealing with, embrace the Word of God, and not think that we have to make it all fit together in terms of one logical scheme that we can logically defend and illustrate.

I think that's the driving force that drives Calvinists into hyper -Calvinism. That's the main issue.

Now there's one other thing. And then we could go to that one other thing after we return from our final break, because we have one more break.

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This is a different book by Anthony Sivalgio, The Proverbs Driven Life. We're going to be going to our final break right now.

And if anybody likes to join us with a question, now is your time to do it before we run out of time. And we do have a couple of you waiting to have your questions asked.

We'll get to as many of you as we can before we run out of time. Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back with Greg Nichols.

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That's liyfc .org. Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the

Pastors Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am

.com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the

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Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the Pastors Study, because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the last 90 minutes in the next half hour to come has been and will continue to be

Greg Nichols, one of three pastors at Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

We are discussing one of the volumes from his lectures in Systematic Theology, The Doctrine of Christ, the

Plan, Promise, and Accomplishment of Salvation. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name, city, and state, and country of residence. And before the break, you said you had one more thing that you wanted to say in reference to Hyper -Calvinism versus Arminianism, I believe.

Yes. What I wanted to say briefly was that the canons of the

Synod of Duart, commonly called the Five Points of Calvinism, are very balanced and biblical and walk the razor's edge on this issue of holding, on the one hand, to God's absolute sovereignty and salvation, and on the other hand, to the free, well -meant, sincere, unfeigned offer of the gospel.

I use unfeigned because that's the very language in the third head of doctrine, which is the corruption of man, his conversion to God, and the manner thereof.

In Article VIII, they say, quote, As many as are called by the gospel are unfeignedly called.

Four, God has most earnestly and truly declared in his word what is acceptable to him, namely, that those who are called should come to him.

He also seriously promises rest of soul and eternal life to all who come to him and believe.

And then they go on to say a lot of other things, but they're alluding when they say he promises rest of soul, they're alluding to the passage we just considered, come to me and I will give you rest.

So they, in the midst of defending against the errors of Arminianism, in the midst of stating

God's sovereignty in conversion, they confess the free, unfeigned, well -meant offer of the gospel to all that God indiscriminately calls in the gospel.

It's an amazing statement, and it's very, very balanced, and I just wanted to say that before we move on.

And one thing I think that it would be important to clarify, before the break at some point, you used the phrase, unconditional reprobation.

And a lot of people who are not Calvinists, in fact, even a

Roman Catholic that debated me, I was interviewed on a British radio program called

Unbelievable, and what I did not know when I entered into the interview, because I was giving my testimony of how

I was saved out of Roman Catholicism, what I did not know is that I would be debating a Roman Catholic, and I never debated anyone publicly in a formal way before, although I have, as you may know,

I have arranged many debates, but I was never a participant as an actual debater. But anyway, the

Roman Catholic on this program assumed that Calvinists believe in equal ultimacy.

He did not use that phrase, but it's obvious that's what he was referring to. And when you use the phrase, unconditional reprobation,

I know that you are not intending to mean by that, as many may wrongly presume, that God has to supernaturally intervene to make neutral men wicked and therefore undeserving of heaven, that they otherwise would not have deserved hell if God had not intervened.

We do not believe that part of it. We do not believe that at all, as far as the state of man.

Man already deserves hell. God does not need to introduce anything to man to make him more worthy of hell, am

I right? You're absolutely right. Thank you for pointing that out. You know,

I still struggle with whether I should use that word. I am not sure, and I think you may have just given me a good reason not to, rather than try to explain ten times over what

I mean and don't mean by it. I certainly don't mean that, you're absolutely right. What I mean to convey is just what

Jesus said, that conditional election is not true.

It's not true that God chose them for eternal life because He foresaw that they would believe. Right, amen. And similarly, it's also not true that He didn't choose them for eternal life because He foresaw that they wouldn't believe.

That's equally not true, and that's what I mean. And then Jesus points out that that's not true.

That's exactly what He says. It isn't that God didn't choose them because He foresaw that they wouldn't have believed anyway.

That's not true. Jesus says exactly the opposite in that text. That's what I mean. Now, when

God is making a decision of election, who He's going to choose for life, and reprobation, the ones that He's going to leave in the state of sin, you, the assumption, the background is that He is viewing the entire lump as one lump of humanity fallen in Adam and deserving of hell already because of Adam's sin.

So, yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm not getting into any of that stuff that, about, you know, this equal ultimacy and all that stuff.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm talking about God making a decision with respect to those that He chooses.

All right, are you there? I think that our guest accidentally disconnected himself. Well, I'm hanging up on Pastor Greg, and hopefully he's going to call us right back.

And in the meantime, I'm going to give another plug for Solid Ground Christian Books, Solid -Ground -Books .com.

Solid -Ground -Books .com. Remember that Solid Ground Christian Books has entered into a slump, a sales slump, after they relocated from Alabama to Florida, so please do most, if not all, of your

Christmas shopping from Solid Ground Christian Books. Well, I think I'm sorry. That's okay. Connection.

My phone went off the hook and I lost the connection. I'm so sorry. My bad.

That was not Chris's issue. That was my phone. Well, I don't know if you completed what you were saying, but just to add a bit to what

I was referring to, the Roman Catholic, in his final statements, one of the things that he wanted to horrify the listeners with was my belief in double predestination, and he wrongly defined that.

And he said, Chris believes, and the wicked doctrine of double predestination teaches, according to this

Roman Catholic, that no matter what you do, no matter how good you are, no matter how often you repent, no matter how much you love

God, you will go to hell simply because you are not of the elect. And of course, you and I, Pastor Greg, know that no elect person, or should

I say, no non -elect person is going to be standing before the judgment as someone who has repented, who has loved

Christ, who has followed him, and is going to be going to hell because he doesn't have a lottery ticket of the elect.

If he is non -elect, those things are not going to develop in that person's life.

They're not going to love God and follow him. They're not going to repent and believe upon him. That is a complete straw man.

There's no such person as that. No such person. That is complete falsehood, misconstrual, that's not what we're saying, not even closed.

There is no such fellow as he presumes. No such person exists, and never will exist.

The carnal mind is enmity against God, not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be.

So there is no such person that loves God with a carnal mind. They all hate God with a carnal mind.

They're enmity against God, they're not God's friends. The whole thing is a complete lie, it's a complete denial of total depravity, total inability, and of the fall of man.

It's a complete misconstrual of what the Scripture teaches about the state of people in the state of sin, or the condition and moral condition of people in the state of sin.

Amen. Well, one of the things that you are discussing today is the accomplishment of salvation, and those who are outside of the

Reformed faith believe wrongly that if you believe that God has thoroughly and completely and perfectly accomplished salvation, there is nothing to worry about.

What are you evangelizing people for? What are you praying about? What are you praying for? This should be just a cakewalk like you're lying on a conveyor belt going into heaven with your hands folded behind your head, and let's just deal, we got to deal with here on earth because it's just going to be a no -effort, one -way ticket to heaven, and why even bother doing anything?

And obviously they wrongly think that is the necessary fruit of believing in a perfectly accomplished salvation, but that's not the truth.

Oh, it's not even close to the truth, and what's basically fundamentally wrong with it, okay?

By the way, you sound a little distant. Are you farther away from the phone or something? No. Now you're perfect.

I needed to turn around to look at my Bible, and I should have kept my mouth shut with my head turned.

Well, then there would have been dead air. But yeah, remember dead air?

We don't need that, do we? No, we don't. 15 to 15.

Yeah, not as bad as knocking my phone off the hook. Now we are obliged to give thanks to God always concerning you brothers, beloved of the

Lord, because God chose you. Now, buried reading, and I don't want to get into that.

It's from the beginning of First Fruits. It's not the main point. I'll just read it without that phrase. God chose you for salvation by sanctification of the

Spirit and faith in the truth, unto which He called you through our gospel to the obtaining of the glory of the

Lord Jesus Christ. So, what's wrong with that whole mentality is that it fails to take into account that when

God chooses the ends, He also chooses the means to those ends.

He chose you for salvation. How? Through sanctification and belief, well, until He called you through our gospel.

He chose you for salvation, and He also chose to save you through the gospel call.

That's His plan of election. His plan of election includes saving people through the gospel call, coming to them in power.

So, when He chose to save, He chose to save through the gospel.

So, don't tell me the gospel is superfluous, because that's the very means that God chose to save people.

That's what it says. He chose you, and He called you through our gospel.

So, God, in His eternal decree, chose to save people by them hearing the gospel and by the gospel coming to them in power.

So, what should we do? We should bring the gospel, and we should pray that God would make that gospel come to those people in power.

There's no incompatibility between ardent prayer, gospel preaching, evangelistic zeal, and election, because God ordained all those as the means that God would use to save sinners and to accomplish

His decree of election. He embodied it all. And then the means, the prayer, the gospel passion, evangelism, the gospel message, all of it is in His decree.

And therefore, it totally misrepresents, misconstrues what the scripture teaches about God's plan to save.

To say that, oh, well, therefore, it doesn't matter. Why do you have to pray? Why do you have to evangelize? Who needs compassion?

Who needs the gospel? Well, that totally misconstrues what the Bible teaches about God's plan, because God's plan clearly includes all those things.

It includes prayer, it includes compassion, it includes the gospel. Whereunto He called you through our gospel.

Amen. It means that before the foundation of the world, He planned to call you through the gospel. Because what happens is exactly what

God planned to happen in eternity. Because the will of God, what is, because He works all things after the counsel of His own will.

If you want to see what God's plan of election is, look at how God executes that plan in history, and that's exactly what

God planned in eternity. And that text in 2 Thessalonians that I just read, look at Thessalonians chapter 2, verses 13 to 15, that text clearly said that the

God that He ends also planned a meeting for the world. We have a listener,

Robert, in Westchester County, New York, and Robert asks, there's been a lot of talk, especially on the internet lately, where Calvinists are battling each other as to whether or not our non -Calvinistic brethren are truly our brethren at all, and whether or not only someone who believes in what are known as the five points of Calvinism can be saved.

What is your guess, Pastor Greg's opinion on this? I think we should love all of our brothers in Christ, and it seems to me that sad to hear about stuff like that.

And it gives me a sense of prudence in staying off the internet and staying out of those kind of things.

I think that Jesus says love one another, and by this will all men know that you're my disciples if you have love one another.

Well, then I'm assuming by that answer you believe that there are many outside of the Reformed camp that are truly

Christian. Yes. Now, obviously you wouldn't take that to an extreme, whereas you would say anybody who says they love

Jesus is our brother and sister. Obviously, there are lost people that make that profession.

There are hosts of Roman Catholics, and there are hosts of Eastern Orthodox, and there are hosts of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and liberals, and all kinds of people that say that they love

Jesus and follow Jesus. I think that's a reasonable good point. My answer to that is basically this, that the way

I discern what a heresy is, is if the

Bible teaches that it's a heresy, then I say it's a heresy. But I don't go around calling everybody a heretic because he doesn't agree with me about it.

If you can find where the Scripture refers to it as a heresy, and you mention some of those things that the

Bible says are heresies, if someone preaches a different gospel of justification by works instead of justification by faith, then let him be anathema,

Paul says. And if someone doesn't teach the deity of Christ, then he doesn't know Christ, John says.

And so, you know, there are things, false doctrines, that the

Scripture explicitly identifies as heresies. Doctrinal errors that are so serious that if you believe those doctrinal errors, you're going to go to hell.

And I think that what we should do is we should not add to what the Scripture identifies those heresies to be.

We should just take what the Scripture identifies as heresy and stay with that. We don't need to add to that list of heresies.

God knows what doctrines are damning doctrines, and if you believe them, you're going to go to hell. And we don't have any business adding to them.

Amen. So... I didn't hear the last thing you said, brother. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I said the

Scripture defines those damning doctrines for us. Yes. And we shouldn't add to the list that the

Scripture creates. Yes. Well, every false doctrine or every error, a heresy that's inconsistent would go into heaven.

That's not charitable. Right. Amen. So, I'm assuming you believe that if one believes that the triune

God saved them from their sins and from the penalty of their sins, and that Jesus Christ's death on Calvary was the only payment that satisfied the

Father, that enables us to be saved and enter into heaven, and that Jesus Christ bodily rose from the grave.

Jesus Christ, who was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died for sinners, and rose from the grave bodily, and is ruling and reigning from heaven, and will return one day.

That is really what needs to be believed to be a genuine

Christian. Although a person can believe those things and fall into many serious errors, we can't tack on unconditional election and predestination, the way

Calvinists read those things, as requirements for the gospel to be faithfully believed.

Am I right? Well, I'm not sure you got the whole list, but all the things that you mentioned certainly are essential.

What would be added to that list of what you would believe to be necessary? The Bible clearly says if you deny the doctrine of hell, that's inconsistent with being in a state of grace.

If you deny the future, the second coming of Christ and the future resurrection, if you say the resurrection's passed already, you're overthrowing people's faith, and it's inconsistent with being in a state of grace.

Like the hyper -preterists. Yes, that's right.

There are certain things that the Bible explicitly identifies as heresy.

The Bible shows us what those things are. We should learn them for sure. We should study the

Bible and know what they are, and we shouldn't add to them, and we shouldn't subtract from them either. Now, when you brought up hell, and I agree with you that eternal conscious torment is hell, but do you actually believe that that is a requirement for one being a brother in Christ?

For instance, we all know that John Stott at least held to the fact that it was plausible that the wicked were annihilated, although I don't think he ever came firmly down on it like it was something he certainly believed.

I think he viewed that as something that was plausible or possible. Now, would you not view

John Stott as a brother in Christ because of that? Well, I'm not going to comment on John Stott.

That would be totally inappropriate. I've never met him. I've never spoken to him. I don't know about that, but clearly the doctrine of hell is an essential part of Orthodox Christian faith.

I agree with that. And that is very clear from the book of Revelation and other passages.

It's very clear, it's explicit. The Bible identifies it as a heresy, and again, it may not be popular for me to say things like that, but I'm going to say them because on the one hand,

I'm not going down the road to adding to that list, but on the other hand, I can't with good conscience subtract anything from that list of heresies either.

So you don't add to it, you don't subtract from it, you just say what the list says, and where do

I get the list? Oh, I get it from the Bible. I get it from studying all those passages where the Bible identifies doctrines that are such serious errors that they're incompatible with going to heaven if you hold them.

Amen. And we who are Reformed, perhaps you don't add, you identify them, and you don't go any further.

Right. It seems that we who are Reformed are more prone to add things that are heretical, meaning not that we believe in those heretical things, but add to a list of things that are damnable than those things that the

Bible would list, and those outside of our camp are more prone to remove those things from the list of damnable heresies.

Unless, of course, we do have many of our fundamentalist brethren who may be anti -Calvinists but would be neck and neck with us on trying to add things to the list of damnable teachings.

I think you're right about that, and I think to add things to that list is uncharitable. It's not that it's not showing the love that Christ wants us to show to those that he loves, and it's uncharitable to do it, and I don't want to be guilty of it.

And I know there are people that might listen to this that might accuse me of being uncharitable, because I said if you don't believe in hell, it's inconsistent with being the state of grace.

People could say, that's uncharitable. I don't think so, because I believe that's what the Bible says.

I didn't say that. The Bible says that. And of course, as you also said earlier, it's hard to walk that razor -thin edge.

I'm falling into error on either side. Walk the edge, and yet I think that's what we need to do, and we don't need to add to that list that God defines as heresies.

It's long enough. God knows what he wants on the list, and we certainly have to have the courage not to subtract from it.

And I'd like you to have two minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about this subject before we go off the air.

Oh, that the only possible way that anybody could ever be saved is through the person and work of Jesus Christ.

How important it is that we know what the Bible says about the story of Jesus.

It's so important, because the person and work of Jesus Christ is the very heart and soul of what the

Bible is all about. That's what I would say. And the doctrine of Christ is therefore absolutely vital to a growing disposition to love and appreciate all that God's done for us.

Amen. And the location or the resource where you can get

Pastor Greg Nichols' volumes that are in print already, and those that will be in print eventually,

God willing, as we were calling them, the Lectures in Systematic Theology, you can go to solid -ground -books .com,

that's Solid Ground Christian Books, solid -ground -books .com. And you can also, if you want to visit the

Grace Emanuel Reformed Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, if you are visiting Grand Rapids, if you live there already, or if you have loved ones that already live there or are visiting there, go to girbc .org,

g -i for Grace Emanuel, r -b -c for reformedbaptistchurch .org.

Do you have any other contact information that you care to share, Pastor Greg? No, that's fine. I just want to thank you so much for the privilege of being with you again.

I so much enjoy—I just can't believe how fast the time goes. I know. I just can't believe it.

And I thank you so much for the privilege of being with you and talking to you, and to those that listen, thank you very, very much.

It's a great privilege. Amen. And if you could wait until we go off the air, because I'd like to invite you back on the program again.

And don't forget, folks, that if you live near Carlisle, Pennsylvania, tomorrow night—I'm sorry, not tomorrow night, tomorrow morning at 1130, going through 1 p .m.,

the Christian Businessmen's Connection is having a Christmas lunch on the theme, Joseph, the

Quiet Hero of Christmas, featuring keynote speaker Marcus A. McKnight III.

And if you would like to register, call 717 -249 -2353.

717 -249 -2353. Mention Iron Sherpins Iron Radio, and your $20 registration fee will be waived.

You will be able to enter that luncheon for free. I look forward to seeing as many of you as possible at that luncheon.

Tomorrow, we have a fascinating topic, a heretical movement called the

New Apostolic Reformation, which will be addressed by Holly Privick and Doug Guyvet. So make sure you tune in tomorrow.

And I look forward to hearing from you and your questions tomorrow. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. I hope that you all have a safe and blessed

Christmas season, and I hope you find a good, solid, Bible -believing church wherever you live if you are not currently a member of one.

And just send me an email if you need me to help you find one, because I have a list of pastors and churches that are faithful to the