Interview With Ken Ham

Justin Peters

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Welcome to the program, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today.

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I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast. It is my special privilege to be interviewing

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Ken Ham today. Ken is the founder, president, CEO of Answers in Genesis, the

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Creation Museum, the Ark Encounter. I imagine most, if not all, of you who watch my channel know who

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Ken is. It's been a special privilege of mine to be able to meet him on a few occasions, have a couple meals with him, and I can honestly tell you he's a genuinely, genuinely nice guy, and so it's a privilege for me to be able to interview you.

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Ken, how are you doing today? Hey, Justin. I'm doing real well. I didn't even pay you to say that.

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No, you did not, and you didn't know I was going to say it either. That's true. But I'm in every word of it.

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You're a really nice guy. I think the world of you, Ken. I appreciate so much what you and all of the fine folks at AIG are doing.

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It's a great, great ministry. Well, thanks, Justin. We appreciate your stand. It's great to be able to work with others who are like -minded in regard to God's Word, and that's so special.

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Amen. Thank you. Thank you, Ken. Well, Ken, I must tell you, as we get started, I called

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Ray Comfort last night, and we had a nice little conversation, and I said,

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Ray, I'm interviewing Ken Ham on my YouTube channel tomorrow, and he said,

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Ken who? And then I said, you know, Ken Ham, the Arc Encounter Creation Museum guy.

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He said, oh, oh, he said, he said, isn't that the guy that built a big boat with a bunch of wood that's millions of years old from New Zealand?

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That's what he said to me. Well, he always likes to harass me, calling it a boat, because he knows we don't like the word boat when talking about the

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Arc. It's ship. And actually, it's interesting that Ray and I talk to each other every day by text, and we try to insult each other.

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See, one of the things about an Australian, Australians like to insult their friends. I mean, that's how you tell them you like them.

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Right. So, if you insult them, you like them. So, Ray and I try to out -insult each other every day.

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Yeah. I think Americans might not understand that. But anyway. Right.

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Right. I just sent him a fridge magnet for his refrigerator, and it's

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Judge Judy saying something to him. But anyway. Oh, funny. We do.

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We do funny things all the time. So, yeah. And I'm always talking about how short he is and how small he is.

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Right. That he must have a really small brain, poor guy. Yeah. That's hilarious.

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Yeah. Oh, that's so good. I'm so glad y 'all have such a good friendship. That's heartwarming. And two compatriots in the gospel.

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So, I appreciate both you and Ray. Ray's a great guy. Super, super nice guy. So. All right.

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Well, Ken. So, here in the last, I don't know, year or so, there have been some within even conservative theological circles that have tried to say, well, it's, you can interpret

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Genesis 1 as not being six literal 24 -hour day periods and still be faithful to Scripture.

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You can still be a conservative evangelical, even if you don't take Genesis 1 literally.

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What would your reply to those folks be, Ken? Well, it's interesting. I've had people say to me, look, they have this system of dividing up your beliefs into different tiers.

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There's a first tier and a second tier and so on. And they say, when it comes to dealing with issues of age and the days of creation, it's not a first tier issue.

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Not like, if you don't believe Jesus rose from the dead, then you've got a big problem, because that means

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Christianity is gone. But what I say to them is, is biblical authority a first tier issue?

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Because if the Bible is not the authoritative word of God, then we've got a problem.

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And therefore, biblical authority is a first tier issue. And that means taking

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God at his word. One of the things that you'll find is that people who believe in millions of years, they're not getting it from Scripture.

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They're getting it from outside of Scripture. And the reason that they're not taking those days as ordinary days has nothing to do with what

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Scripture actually says. They're really reinterpreting those days because of their belief in millions of years.

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I'll guarantee that people who question the days of creation have been impacted by outside ideas.

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Now, if you just take Genesis as written, and you take the words there in Genesis chapter one, and for each of the six days of creation, you have the

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Hebrew word yom. Whenever it's qualified by evening or morning or number or night, it means an ordinary day.

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Now, you'll find for the first day, and actually the first day, the way it's written actually says one day.

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It's actually defining the word day. And you've got yom with evening, morning, number, and night. And then for each of the other days, you've got evening, morning, and number.

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It's as if God is saying, I'm going to qualify this over and over and over and over again. Because if the word yom is with a number, it means an ordinary day.

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If it's with the word evening, it means an ordinary day. Or the word morning, it means an ordinary day. Or the word night, it means an ordinary day.

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Or if it's just the phrase evening and morning, it means an ordinary day. And so God's qualifying it over and over again.

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I think he's saying, you know, these people in the 21st century are going to be so thick, I'm going to qualify this over and over again.

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And they're still not going to believe it because they don't want to believe my word. And you see, it really relates to an issue of biblical authority.

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Because if you are starting outside of scripture and then going to scripture and reinterpreting the words of scripture, you're undermining the authority of the word, which then

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I would say is a first tier issue. Because that's what it's all about. And the reason I take those days as ordinary days is because I start from scripture first.

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And Justin, you know, you would be very familiar with the fact there's a big difference between exegesis and eisegesis.

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And really what's happening in much of the church in regard to Genesis is these people that are really doing eisegesis, starting outside of scripture.

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And yet for so many of them, once you get through Genesis chapter 11, then they're prepared to do eisegesis for the rest of the

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Bible. And why is it only the first 11 chapters that there's a big problem? And particularly when it comes to issues of the days of creation and age.

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And I think a lot of it has to do with intimidation by the world. There's a lot of academic peer pressure.

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If you believe in six literal days and a young earth and universe, you'll be called anti -intellectual, anti -academic, anti -scientific.

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You won't be published in the journals or papers. The peer pressure is immense. There's a lot of academic pride out there, intellectual pride.

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And so people tend to succumb. And you know, it's a sad thing because when you have taught generations in the church or generations of pastors, you don't have to take

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Genesis as written. You can start outside Genesis and take man's beliefs and reinterpret what the

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Bible says. Then eventually, once you've unlocked that door, why shouldn't that happen with marriage?

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Oh, by the way, it is happening when we see even pastors becoming soft on the gay marriage issue and LGBT issues and transgender issues and so on.

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And then I just want to add this, and that is when you believe in millions of years, it came out of atheism, atheism of the early 1800s particularly, and the belief that the fossil layers were laid down millions of years before man.

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Those fossil layers are full of dead things that show evidence of diseases like cancer and arthritis and abscesses.

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You're saying all that existed before sin. And yet the Bible says after God made everything, everything was very good.

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You can't have millions of years of death, disease and suffering before sin.

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We're living in a groaning world, Romans 8 .22, because of sin. It was once perfect.

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It was once very good. Now it's groaning. One day there'll be a restitution, a restoration. What will it be restored to?

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Death, suffering, disease? No, the Bible says no more death, no more pain. In fact, death will be thrown into a lake of fire.

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And you know, remember this too. Where does our seven -day week come from? It doesn't come from any astronomical observation.

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A seven -day week comes from the Bible, because God made everything in six days and rested for one, which is why when you read

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Exodus 20 verse 11, which is the basis of the fourth commandment, it says in six days, God created everything, rested on the seventh day.

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That's where the seven -day week comes from. So, you know, when I'm talking to atheists and I ask them, you know, do you believe in a seven -day week or you have a 10 -day week or 11 -day week or you have a seven -day week?

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Oh, so you do believe the Bible, because that's where it comes from. So no, it is real important to take

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God's Word as written. And that's what our ministry is all about. It's a biblical authority ministry. And you know, people think our main emphasis is the age of the earth or six literal days of creation.

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Our main emphasis is biblical authority and the gospel. And when something undermines biblical authority, like the supposed millions of years belief, then we certainly deal with that.

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Yes, indeed. That's one of the things I appreciate so much about Answers in Genesis is that that's where you come from.

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Scripture is your authority. And we base our worldview upon that. Again, there's people today who claim to be, again, claim to be theological conservatives.

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And they would say that the age of the earth is really not a big deal. And you hinted at it just a moment ago.

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But if you hold to millions of years, then that necessitates death before sin.

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Now, these people would say, well, you can still believe in the resurrection, the gospel is still intact, even if you hold to an old earth and millions of years.

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What would your response be to those folks? You know, what do we read in Scripture? If you confess with your mouth the

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Lord Jesus and believe in your heart God has raised him from the dead and believe in six literal days in a young earth, you'll be saved.

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Well, we know that Scripture doesn't say that, right? Scripture says if you confess with your mouth the

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Lord Jesus and your heart God has raised him from the dead, you'll be saved. In other words, is there anywhere in Scripture that says you have to believe in six literal days in a young earth to be saved?

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And the answer is no, it doesn't say that. Then people say to me, so you can believe in millions of years and still be a

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Christian? And I say, well, I know a lot of Christians that I believe that, you know, perhaps accept their testimony that they're born again and they trust

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Christ for salvation. Salvation is by grace, through faith, grace alone, faith alone.

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There's no addition to that in regard to, you know, what you believe about the age of the earth or the days of creation.

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And then they'll say to me, so it doesn't matter then? I say, no, that's where you're wrong. It really does matter because it really comes down to an issue of authority, biblical authority, as I mentioned earlier.

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And that is that when you believe in millions of years, you didn't get that from Scripture.

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You got that from outside of Scripture. You're taking it to Scripture. And it's interesting that when you look at all the different positions on Genesis, I mean, throughout church history, there's been particularly in modern times, particularly since the 1800s, there's been so many different positions on Genesis, gap theory, progressive creation, threshold evolution, framework hypothesis, theistic evolution, day age theory, local flood.

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I mean, all these different positions, but you know, they all have one thing in common. You know what that is? Believing in millions of years and trying to come up with some creative way of feeding it into the

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Bible should tell you right there, there's a problem. You know, and people say to me, well, what's your position? I say, oh, the biblical one.

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I just start with the Scriptures as written. And see, the other thing is that I mentioned, if you believe in millions of years, you have to accept that the death, disease, suffering we see today has gone on for millions of years.

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And you know, that is an incredibly big issue because a lot of young people today, and in fact, a lot of people, but the younger generations, one of the big issues to them is, how can you believe in a loving

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God with all the death and suffering we see in the world today? And if they go to church and they've been told by their

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Christian leader, their pastors, no, you can believe in millions of years, just trust in Jesus. But that means

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God's responsible for all this death and suffering and disease. And if it existed millions of years before man, he called it all very good because after God created man, he said everything he made was very good.

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So then we're blaming God for death, suffering and disease, but the Bible blames our sin.

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That's the important thing. And really, when you say God used death, bloodshed, disease, and suffering to bring man into existence, and he's responsible for all that death, it's an attack on the character of God.

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You know, you remember when Jesus came to the tomb of Lazarus and said, Jesus wept. I believe he was weeping at death.

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That, you know, there's that separation because of death. And I believe he was angry at death because death was in the world because of our sin.

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And so what did he do? Lazarus come forth. He healed Lazarus from the dead.

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You know, the Bible makes it clear one day in the new heavens, new earth, there'll be no more death and death is going to be thrown into the lake of fire.

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Actually, what does the Bible call death in the New Testament? An enemy. It's an intrusion, right?

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And so we need to make sure that we're blaming our sin for the judgment of death.

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You know, that's why death is here. We rebelled, we committed high treason against the

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God of creation. It's not because God used death and suffering and disease to bring man to existence.

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So these issues are very, very important. And, you know, if death has always been here and then

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Jesus died on the cross, what has his death got to do with anything of paying the penalty for sin? It doesn't make sense.

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It doesn't add up. In fact, the first death, I believe, was recorded in the

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Bible in Genesis 321, when God gave Adam and Eve coats of skins, so he would have killed animals.

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And really, that was the first blood sacrifice as a covering for their sin. We know that people in the

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Old Testament, you know, Cain and Abel knew about the sacrificial system. There had to be a sacrifice, a payment for the penalty of sin.

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But of course, it was looking forward to the one who would be the ultimate sacrifice, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

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You know, the Scripture says without the shedding of blood, there's no remission of sins. And the life of the flesh is in the blood.

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Blood represents life. And so there had to be the giving of life to pay the penalty for sin, which means the shedding of blood, which pointed to the one who would be the ultimate sacrifice, who shed his blood, because the blood of bulls and goats can't take away our sin.

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That was just a picture of what was to come in Christ and what he would do on the cross. Yes. Yes, indeed.

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Amen. Well said. Thank you, Ken. Thank you. That's helpful. Ken, there's also been a recent push for saying that the flood was just a localized event.

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Now, this is not a new idea, of course, but it seems to be at least a new idea within our theologically conservative circles.

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And there's one individual in particular, but he argues, one of his arguments is that the word in Hebrew for world, in Genesis 6, talking about the flood and it covered the entire face of the earth, he says that that word earth,

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Eretz in Hebrew, is used elsewhere in other parts of Scripture when it's simply referring to a localized area.

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For example, Genesis 13, 9 says, is not the whole land before you?

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And that word land is Eretz. So, you know, depending upon the context, it could mean the entire world, but it could mean, he says it can also mean just a localized area.

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And so therefore, there's really no reason for us to believe that the flood was global, it could have been just a local flood based on Eretz.

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What would your reply to that be? You know, Justin, when you study theological works and so on, if you study theology, what is one of the things they tell you?

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Context, context, context, context, right? Right. You know, we talked about the word yom before, the

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Hebrew word yom. And I've had, I remember an instance once where a pastor came to me and he said, but the word yom can mean something other than an ordinary day.

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And I said, that's true, but it can also mean an ordinary day. And he said, but it can mean something other than ordinary day.

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I said, that's true, but it can also mean an ordinary day. Then he said it again. And I said, look, the point is not that the word yom can't mean something other than ordinary day, it can, the point is, it can mean day.

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And when does it mean day? That's the important thing. And, you know, it's the same with the word

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Eretz. If you look up the word Eretz in a lexicon, you know, Hebrew dictionary, it's got a whole range of meanings.

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So how do you decide which one to pick? Its first meaning is usually given as whole earth, by the way.

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And then it can have meaning of land and parts of the land. And, you know, it can have a meaning of certain communities on the land or land, you know, communities in certain sections of the land.

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And so it goes on and its context. And so let's look at the context there of the flood.

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Let me see. This sounds like a local flood to me, doesn't it? The highest hills under the whole of heaven were covered by water.

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It doesn't make any sense to say that that was a local flood. But not only that, you know, at the end of the flood, what did

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God do? He said, the rainbow, the rainbow, I'm making a covenant between God and man and the animals, and the rainbow will be a sign of that covenant.

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So when you see the rainbow, I want you to remember that I will never again destroy with such a flood.

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Now we've seen lots of local floods since. So did God break his promise or was it something other than a local flood?

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It was obviously a global flood. And, you know, it's interesting, there's a reference to the flood in 2

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Peter 3, talking about in the last days, the scoffers who come and they'll reject creation.

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And then it says they'll reject that the world that then was being overflowed with water perished. And then they'll reject the coming judgment by fire.

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And it's interesting, the coming judgment by fire is talking about, you know, then a whole new heavens and a new earth is talking about the whole earth.

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And in the context of the flood there, the world that then was perished, is talking about the whole world, is talking about the whole earth.

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It's very obvious it was a global flood. I mean, why would Noah build an ark for these animals if it was just a local flood?

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And it says all flesh that had the breath of life, all flesh died. The scripture makes it very clear, even in the

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New Testament in Peter, that only eight people survived the flood. And that's what it tells us there in Genesis.

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And we also know when Noah and his wife and their three sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, and their wives came off the ark, then in Genesis 9, it tells us that those three sons gave rise to all the people on earth since that time.

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And so there weren't any other people that survived the flood. There were only those eight. And all flesh died.

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And the highest hills under the whole of heaven, it repeats that there in those passages in Genesis 6 through 9 concerning the flood.

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And there's lots of other reasons we could talk about that, no, that had to be, it was a global flood.

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It was very obvious that it was a global flood. So, as in the days of Noah, so shall the coming of the son of man be.

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Are we going to have a localized second coming and a localized judgment by fire in the future?

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Of course not. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And a localized flood just brings up some absurdities too.

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You said, why would Noah build the ark? He could have just relocated the animals, gone a hundred miles away or something like that.

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And then you, I don't know if, did Lalo show you the picture that I texted to him right before the interview?

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Oh yes. That's one of the pictures that I've used in my talks to show the absurdity of a local flood.

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Oh, okay. So that picture probably, it comes from you, huh? Yes, it comes from Answers to Genesis.

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Yes. All right. Well, that's good to know. So yeah, it's just absolutely absurd. And it's,

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Ken, you almost get the sense that unfortunately some of these folks, it seems like they're trying to accommodate scripture.

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They're almost embarrassed by some of the miracles that the Bible records. And it's like they're trying to gain a level of credibility amongst the world, you know, say, well, we're not as Christians, we're not that crazy to believe that God would flood the entire planet, or we're not that crazy to believe that the world is only 6 ,000 or so years old.

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Is that what we're seeing, an attempt to make the Bible a little more palatable to the world?

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Well, you know, particularly since the 1800s, we live in what's called a scientific age. And of course, in the 1800s, you also have the rise of naturalism to combat, obviously, biblical things.

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And people today see the technology that we have. And there's been an incredible indoctrination that, you know, if you're scientific, you would not believe in Genesis.

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And, you know, if you're scientific, you would believe in millions of years, and you'll believe in evolution.

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And to be scientific means you can't believe that history, or that it's not history, in Genesis 1 to 11.

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And so there's an incredible peer pressure, intellectual, academic peer pressure out there to reject

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Genesis 1 to 11. And it's, you know, one of the things I often do is help people understand the word science comes from the

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Latin scientia, which means to know, it means knowledge, and that there's different sorts of knowledge and knowledge gained using your five senses in the present is what build our technology.

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And so it doesn't matter whether you're an atheist or a Christian, we can love science. I was approved to be a science teacher in the public schools in Australia as a

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Christian. So I must have fulfilled all the requirements to understand science. And you see, but when it comes to talking about origins, that's your beliefs, that's different.

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That's a different sort of science. That's why I call them when I debated Bill Nye in 2014, 10 years ago, actually,

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I said, we've got to understand the difference between observational science and historical science. We all agree on the observational science.

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It's the historical science, your beliefs about the past, where we disagree. And unfortunately,

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I think many Christians today have been brainwashed into thinking if I believe in Genesis 1 to 11 is literal history,

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I'm denying science, which is not true. And there's a lot of intellectual pride out there and academic pride, because you will be scoffed at.

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You will be ostracized by your secular peers. If you believe in six literal days in a young earth and a global flood like we do, which is what the

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Bible clearly teaches, by the way, they'll be ostracized by their peers. They won't be published in the journals.

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And so, you know, and Genesis 1 to 11 is interesting. I believe there's been an incredible attack on Genesis 1 to 11 in our time since the 1800s, because it is the foundation for everything.

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There's nothing it's not the foundation for. It's a foundation for the rest of the Bible, for all of our doctrine.

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It's a foundation for the gospel. It's a foundation for our biblical worldview. It is the foundation for everything.

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And the devil knows that. Think about it. It's a foundation for marriage. It's a foundation for gender. It's a foundation for understanding life, the sanctity of life.

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It's the foundation for work. It's the foundation for understanding true climate change, which was produced by the flood and the ice age and not the climate change religion they're talking about today, which is a worship of man and making man his own

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God who can save the planet and so on. And so you see, Genesis 1 to 11 is the foundation for everything.

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And that's why there's been such an attack on it. And sadly, so much of the church has succumbed to it. Yes, indeed.

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It really is sad. It really is sad. I'm so grateful that you're out there and you have this wonderful ministry to equip believers to speak the truth, speak the truth in love, be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within you.

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And yeah, y 'all are doing such good work. If I may, Ken, let me ask you a couple of final questions about this area as far as origins and creation go.

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So these are a couple of questions that I'm posed myself, I hear quite often. So if you hold to a six literal 24 hour day period and a young earth, then how do we explain all of these animals that are clearly designed as predators?

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For example, the alligator snapping turtle, he has this little pink tongue and he opens his mouth and wiggles, it looks like a worm and it draws fish in and then he clamps down and has his lunch and the teeth of a great white shark, they would say clearly these animals aren't designed to be vegetarians.

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So if death did not come before the fall, then why were these animals created to be predators?

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You know, Justin, let me make a statement. The present is not the key to the past.

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You see, secularists use the present as the key to the past, right?

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And that's really the basis for what they would call uniformitarianism. In other words, you look at present processes and then extrapolate into the past.

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And that's how the idea of millions of years came about. Oh, we see layers being laid down slowly today.

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Therefore, in the past, there must have always been laid down slowly. So all those layers you have all over the earth, if there really was a global flood, you'd find billions of dead things buried in rock layers laid down by water all over the earth and that's what you find.

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So they couldn't be from the flood because they must have been laid down slowly over millions of years.

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And since that time, of course, they say, oh, well, we do see some local catastrophes.

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So maybe there were some local catastrophes over time. But basically, what we see in present day processes has gone on for millions of years.

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Now, we as Christians, unfortunately, tend to think like that, too, because we don't have a biblical worldview.

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You see, you can't look at the present world to interpret the past. We need to start from the

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Word of God who knows everything, who's always been there, who's given us a record of what happened in the past so we can build a true biblical worldview to understand the present.

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Most churches don't teach biblical worldview. Less than 6 % of Christian schools teach worldview.

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I'd say most Christians, they think a biblical worldview is adding the Bible to your thinking and adding

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Bible verses to your thinking. And that's why when they ask me about questions like dinosaurs, and by the way,

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I'm getting to the answer to the question. I just take a long time to answer this question. But that's why I had people say things like, how do you fit dinosaurs into the

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Bible? And I say, well, you don't. And they say, what do you mean you don't? No. You're starting with the present world and man's present interpretation of things, and you're saying, how do you fit that with the

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Bible? You start with the Bible that gives us an account of the origin of land animals, the origin of death.

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It tells us about Noah's Ark and so on. You've got to have the right history concerning the past to then understand the present world.

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So when you look at fossils, you say, how do you fit fossils to the Bible? Well, you don't. Start with the Bible, and you know there was no death before sin, so fossils weren't laid down before sin.

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The Bible tells us about a global flood. If there was such a flood, you'd find fossils all over the earth. Now, I say all that to say to us, what people tend to do is look at the present world and they say, look, we see animals eating animals, and we see them using their sharp teeth to eat animals, and look at the great white shark.

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So how could there have been no death before sin? I say, wait a minute, wait a minute. Let's start with what the

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Bible says. Originally, when God made Adam and Eve, they ate fruit.

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They were vegetarian, Genesis 1, verse 29. And then chapter 1, verse 30 says the animals were eating plants.

30:15

Now, if you jump over to Genesis 9, verse 3, after the flood, God changed our diet as humans and said, just as I gave you the plants, now

30:25

I give you the animals as well. Now you can eat everything, which I tell people is the reason you can eat a hot dog, because it is everything.

30:33

But if you go back to Genesis 1, 29, and 30, verse 29 is talking about man being vegetarian, substantiated by Genesis 9, 3 as well.

30:47

Verse 30 is written in the same way for animals. They were obviously vegetarian. So the point

30:53

I want to make is you can't start from an interpretation of what's happening today and say that doesn't fit with the

30:59

Bible. We need to start from the Bible and say, oh, they weren't always like that. Oh, we're living in a fallen world.

31:08

Romans 8, 22 tells us the whole of creation groans. And people say, but a great white shark has sharp teeth.

31:16

Well, just because an animal has sharp teeth doesn't mean it's a meat eater. It just means it has sharp teeth. And you need sharp teeth if you're going to eat even plants and certain types of plants.

31:27

You know, in Australia, we have this little creature that goes around Australia. It's got incredibly long, sharp teeth.

31:33

It looks like the most savage thing you've ever seen. And it eats fruit. That's all it eats is fruit.

31:39

Well, think about a giant panda. Now, a giant panda mainly eats bamboo, and you need real sharp teeth.

31:47

You look at its teeth and you say, wow, it must have been a animal. Well, it's mainly bamboo. Most bears, even though bears will eat small animals and so on, but most bears primarily eat berries.

32:00

They'll even eat grass after coming out of hibernation. And, you know, there was a discovery channel,

32:07

I believe, where I've got the video of it in Australia. Somebody did a test, a bait test on sharks and the great white shark, and they put out squid and they put out brown seaweed as well.

32:23

And they put out another animal. And so what happened, the great white shark came along and he took the brown algae, the seaweed, he took the plant first, and then second came back for it, and then came back later and ate the squid and so on.

32:41

In other words, yeah, they will eat plants too. I've got a video of an alligator in Florida eating kumquats off a tree.

32:50

So I say that to say, you know, there are animals today that certainly eat other animals.

32:57

There are some animals that eat primarily fruit and so on, and plants, but we'll maybe occasionally eat another animal.

33:06

We're living in a fallen world. Originally, it was not like that. And even though things look like they're designed today in a sense to, you know, eat other animals or whatever, we've got to remember they could possibly, isn't it possible there's something we don't know where they could have used it for a different function?

33:25

Like mosquitoes. You say, well, mosquitoes suck blood. Well, the female sucks blood. The male mosquito sucks plant sap.

33:34

Is it possible they all sucked plant sap originally before sin? So you see, there's lots of different ways of interpreting that.

33:42

And I don't have all the answers because I've never seen a perfect world. I was born in an imperfect world.

33:48

I was born in a fallen world. I'm growing up in this. It all seems so normal in one sense, but it's abnormal in a biblical sense.

33:58

And that's what we've got to understand. Yes, indeed. Great. That's helpful. Thank you, Ken. And maybe,

34:06

Justin, I'll say one other thing. Some of those people then come back and say, well, plants die then.

34:11

They're eating plants. Well, there's a Hebrew phrase, nefesh. That's a life spirit that animals have that plants do not.

34:19

There's something different about plant death. I mean, if you were to take your wife or your girlfriend out on a hike and say, let's sit here and watch the sunset, and you sat on a dead tree lying there, you could have a romantic evening.

34:34

But you wouldn't say to her, let's sit on that dead rotting deer over there and enjoy the sunset. There's something different about animal death.

34:41

That's right. That's right. Exactly. Exactly. Good point. The other question,

34:46

Ken. So Genesis 4 records the birth of Cain and Abel, and then

34:52

Cain's murder of his brother. And then just a few verses later in the same chapter,

34:58

Cain is building a city that he named Enoch, that he named, of course, after his son.

35:04

So some have asked me, well, how do you go from Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, and then just in a few verses after Abel is dead, so you're left with Adam and Eve and Cain, now he's building a city.

35:17

Where did all these people come from? Yeah. So first of all, we really need to understand that God doesn't give us everything in his word.

35:30

Correct. Everything that happened, all the details. In fact, if God told us everything, we'd have an infinite number of books and we'd never get through them.

35:37

That's right. But he's given us the relevant information we need to have. If you think about it,

35:44

Genesis 1 to 11 covers, what, 1 ,700 years of history from creation to the flood.

35:54

And it's just a summary. Now we have some specific details in Genesis 5, for instance, of all the different generations.

36:03

But I wish the Bible gave us more history about what sort of houses did they build, and what happened, and all the other history.

36:11

But there's enough there, nonetheless, for us to answer even these questions like the ones you ask.

36:17

For instance, first of all, Genesis 5, 4 says, and Adam had other sons and daughters.

36:26

So from reading scripture, it seems very obvious that Cain was the first child.

36:33

Now, when did Adam have Seth? That was when he was 130 years old.

36:38

That was 130 years later. Now, when God made Adam and Eve, he told them to be fruitful and multiply.

36:44

If they obeyed, Cain could have been born back there, you know, very close to the beginning, right?

36:52

Certainly, I believe, after the fall, which I think was very quick. I don't think that took a long time.

36:57

So when Cain killed Abel, he could have been close to 130 years old, if you think about it.

37:05

Now, you know, Seth is said to be a replacement for Abel.

37:11

That's what Eve seems to say, that he's a replacement for Abel. And so that would mean when

37:20

Cain killed Abel, so maybe Seth was very, very, you know,

37:29

Seth was born then as a replacement for Abel. So how old was Abel when

37:34

Cain killed him? Well, we don't know. And where is he in that genealogical line?

37:42

But we're not told all the details. We're not told all the other sons and daughters.

37:49

So it's very possible that Abel was very young. He could have been a teenager, maybe, or in his 20s, or whatever.

37:56

Now, there's another aspect of this. You know, when Cain killed Abel, it says that Cain went out and knew his wife.

38:02

And people say, where did he get his wife from? Well, knew his wife implies he was already married.

38:07

Already married, yeah. So if you think about it, if he was close to, you know, 130 years old when he killed

38:14

Abel, and marriage is one man for one woman, and we all come from Adam and Eve, there could have been a lot of children who were already married and had children, including

38:27

Cain. And so there was a lot of family members there, many more than we realize.

38:33

See, that little phrase in Genesis 5 -4 is important. Adam had other sons and daughters.

38:39

And only three are singled out, particularly Cain and Abel, and for the particular reason that Cain killed

38:46

Abel, and there's a lot of teaching in there for us. And then Seth is singled out because, and there's a godly line that comes from Seth, and because Eve saw him as a replacement for Abel.

39:01

So, you know, put all that together. Who was Cain frightened of when scripture says, you know, but when people see me, they'll kill me.

39:11

He was frightened of his other family members, which is why God gave him some sign, whatever it was, that no, they're not going to kill you.

39:21

And, you know, gave a warning about that. And I think that's important because when you look at all the laws of the

39:27

Old Testament and so on, when people had to be judged by being put to death, their close family members were not to be the ones involved and so on.

39:36

So I think there's a lot there in regard to that whole family relationship. And then he went out and built a city and probably already had children and wanted some fortification, maybe just keep himself safe, even though God said, you know, that's not going to happen.

39:54

But I hope that answers the question. I think when you read this very, very carefully and put it in context, you start to realize, oh, yeah, now a lot of people, oh,

40:03

I haven't thought about that before. They just think, I remember once when I was in a restaurant in London, in England, and the chef heard we're doing a conference nearby.

40:13

And he came over and said, I heard you people are doing a conference on the Bible. I said, yeah. He said, well, I don't believe the Bible. I said, why not?

40:19

Well, he said, the Bible says God made Adam and Eve, and then they had Cain and Abel. Where do all the people come from then?

40:26

And I showed him the Bible. I said, Genesis 5, 4 says Adam had sons and daughters.

40:32

And he said, oh, I didn't read that far. And, you know, that's a problem with a lot of people. They don't read that far.

40:38

That's right. So there are answers to these questions if we read them. And, you know, there's an important lesson for us to learn from Cain and Abel.

40:54

And there was something about the sacrifice. It could be that, you know, Abel didn't bring the right sacrifice, but there was jealousy there.

41:02

He had anger in his heart. And this is the important thing for us to know. God said to him, sin desires you.

41:09

Sin wants to master over you, but you need to master over it. Don't let that happen.

41:15

And he let his sin master over him, and he killed Abel. And that's a warning for each one of us.

41:21

Our sin nature wants to master over us every day. And that's why we need to continually look to God's Word and look to the

41:27

Lord Jesus Christ to be conformed to his image so that we don't let it master over us every day.

41:34

We can't trust our feelings. See, the young people today are being told, trust your feelings.

41:40

And, oh, I feel I want to be a girl or a boy. I can change or whatever. No, you've got to judge your feelings, your behavior, everything you believe against the absolute authority of God's Word.

41:50

That's why it's so important to stand on the absolute authority of God's Word and to know God's Word.

41:56

Amen. Amen. Excellent. That's very helpful, Ken. Thank you. Ken, one of the things that I've really appreciated about you is that you are willing to engage some of the most egregious and dangerous false teachings out there.

42:13

And quite honestly, I've told other people, I can't believe Ken is still on Twitter. I guess it's now X, but I figured you would have been kicked off a long time ago.

42:22

But you're so courageous and you engage these things. And you've also done so, thankfully, to some of the more dangerous teachings within Christianity.

42:36

And I want to ask you, I think going back to about 2015, if I'm not mistaken, you have called

42:43

Andy Stanley a false teacher. Andy Stanley is a pastor of one of the larger churches in the

42:51

United States, and he has famously or infamously said that we need to unhitch from the

42:57

Old Testament. He said that, and I quote, we believe

43:02

Jesus rose from the dead, but we don't believe Jesus rose from the dead because the Bible tells us so.

43:09

It's actually the other way around. If Jesus had not risen from the dead, there would be no

43:14

Bible, there would be no church, and I would have no job. So, why have you called

43:22

Andy Stanley a false teacher? What makes his teaching so dangerous? Well, you know, for Andy Stanley, if you listen to his sermons more and more, one of the things

43:33

I've always said, and we're starting to see this more and more with him too, even some of his statements dealing with the

43:39

LGBT issues and the way he gets around those and soft on those and so on. And, you know, it really comes down to once you give up Genesis 1 to 11, ultimately you will see that impacting how you view the rest of Scripture.

43:57

And he certainly doesn't believe in Genesis 1 to 11 as literal history. He believes in the Big Bang. He believes in billions of years.

44:05

He says when it comes down to what he calls science in the Bible, he says science must win. You know, he's got that statement in one of his sermons.

44:14

And when religion and science conflict, at the end of the day, if you are an honest person, science must win.

44:21

And what he's talking about is science. He's talking about millions of years and evolution and that sort of thing.

44:27

And so, you know, when he says you have to unhitch the New Testament from the Old Testament, well then the

44:33

Old Testament is foundational to the New Testament. Or you could say the New Testament is all founded in the

44:40

Old Testament. And all of that's founded in the first 11 chapters of the Bible. So once you unhitch that from the

44:45

Old Testament, you have no foundation for what's in the New Testament. You know, what he's really doing is undermining the authority of the

44:53

Word of God. He's attacking the Word of God. I mean, how many times do you even read in the

44:58

New Testament where they're saying, you know, and Christ rose, you know, according to the scriptures? Or you think about when

45:05

Jesus was asked about marriage in Matthew 19. It's recorded in Mark 10 as well. Well, have you not read, you know, talking about the authority of the written

45:15

Word? Or when Jesus was tempted by the devil, what do you say? It is written. And then the devil even said it is written, but he quoted it, misquoted it, put it out of context.

45:25

Then Jesus said, but it is written. Again, the authority of the

45:31

Word of God. And so, you know, when it comes to the resurrection, let me ask a question.

45:40

You know, as a Christian, how do we know Jesus rose from the dead? How do we ultimately know? Do we see it happen?

45:46

No. Do we have a movie rerun of it? No. So how do we know? We only know because God has told us in his

45:54

Word. That's how we know. You can't know that apart from scripture. You can have all this circumstantial evidence.

46:02

And I mean, you know, you could look at Josh McDowlesworth, who did some great work on, you know, apologetics in regard to the resurrection, for instance.

46:10

And there is others who have done this, who point to all sorts of different sources and so on.

46:16

And that may be true, but that still doesn't prove Jesus rose from the dead. The only way we know

46:21

Jesus rose from the dead, ultimately, is because the scripture tells us.

46:29

I mean, how do we know Jesus healed a blind man? Because the Bible says. How do we know he raised

46:36

Lazarus from the dead? The Bible says. How do we know that he fed thousands is a miracle?

46:42

The Bible says. How do we know Jesus was born of a virgin? The Bible says. How do you know anything, ultimately, as a

46:50

Christian? The Bible says. And so, you know, Andy Stanley is really attacking

46:57

God's word, undermining the authority of the word of God, which means he's attacking the person of Jesus Christ, who is the word.

47:05

Exactly. Yeah, that's right. These are the compromises that Andy Stanley is making.

47:12

These are not secondary issues. You know, this is not. We're not talking about matters that we can have differences of opinion on and still have fellowship in Christ.

47:20

You know, your eschatology, who wrote the book of Hebrews, these kinds of things. He's undermining the very gospel itself.

47:28

He is. And, you know, that brings to mind a time when I was being interviewed by a Presbyterian minister, and he said to me, now, you agree in the church, we can have different views of eschatology, pre -mill, post -mill, we can have different views of modes of baptism, different views of speaking in tongue, different views of Sabbath day, and so on.

47:47

And I said, yeah, that's true. And obviously, somebody's wrong, because they all can't be right.

47:53

But nonetheless, yes, that's true. And he said, and we have different views of Genesis, same thing. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

48:00

No, it's not the same thing. You know, when you're arguing about views of eschatology and modes of baptism and so on, primarily you're arguing from Scripture, and you're saying, well,

48:09

Scripture says this. Well, over here, it says this. Yeah, but here it says this. Ah, but we've got to interpret Scripture to Scripture, and here it says this, and look at this.

48:17

But when it comes to different views of Genesis, it's not because, look what Scripture says, but look what man is saying.

48:24

Look what man is saying outside of here. That it's coming from outside of Scripture.

48:30

And you know, with Andy Stanley, he's made it very clear that he takes man's views from outside of Scripture and then adds them to the

48:39

Bible. Well, actually, I'm not sure what he's adding them to, because he sort of doesn't really believe the Bible, or he's rejecting the

48:46

Old Testament. But as I said, once you reject Genesis 1 to 11 as literal history, the rest will ultimately fall.

48:54

You'll start to see it happen in various ways. And another way I make that statement is, hey, if you believe in Genesis 1 to 11 as literal history, that's the key to being woke -proof.

49:09

Yes, that's right. Because you'll always find when people are soft on all these other issues, they will not take

49:18

Genesis 1 to 11 as literal history. Once you take Genesis 1 to 11 as literal history, marriage is a man and a woman.

49:24

There's only two genders, and so it goes on. That's how to be woke -proof. That's exactly right,

49:30

Ken. I agree 100%. Yep, you compromise on Genesis 1 through 11, the camel's nose is under the tent, and the rest of that camel's coming up.

49:38

It's coming in with it. That's for sure. Yep, absolutely, 100%. Thank you so much for that.

49:46

So, Ken, I've been to the art now four times. I've been to the Creation Museum, I think, three.

49:54

Every time I go, there's something new, which I want to ask about in just a second. But a couple of my favorite exhibits at the

50:02

Creation Museum, I love the planetarium. I think that is phenomenal. Jason Lyle has helped design that and write the script for that, correct?

50:13

Yeah, for the Created Cosmos program. We have a number of programs, but that's our premier program, yes.

50:18

Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. And I also love the, and this is my wife's favorite exhibit,

50:24

Fearfully and Wonderfully Made. That's the most powerful pro -life exhibit in the world.

50:31

100%. I've never seen anything like it. For those who haven't yet seen it, tell us a little bit about that exhibit,

50:39

Fearfully and Wonderfully Made. Well, that exhibit was really produced on the basis of some great teaching by the late

50:48

Dr. Dave Menton, the wonderful man of God who was an anatomist. And so they were able to produce models showing the development of a child in the womb, right from fertilization.

51:00

We even have some what are called Pepper's Ghost animation to show you things there as well.

51:06

And these models are exquisite. There's nothing else like them anywhere. We searched the world, couldn't find models that were high enough quality.

51:13

And so we have our own design team, sculptors and artists and so on. And they designed all these models.

51:19

And as you go through, you can see the development of a baby right from fertilization, because life begins at fertilization, a unique combination of information.

51:30

Abortion is killing a human being right from fertilization. And then we go and show people that in the development at various stages and all the organs and so on.

51:41

And then we also have a giant baby, which is exquisitely done and showing the work of the placenta, which is one of the most astonishing, amazing organs in the human body.

51:53

And then we go through and deal with all sorts of issues in regard to development in the womb, and then abortion, and then testimonies from people who are preemie babies born when they're not supposed to survive outside the womb and have done, or from a lady who was a twin and her twin was aborted and they tried to abort her and she wasn't.

52:20

And now she goes lecturing all around the world. We have wonderful testimonies there. And we have all sorts of fascinating information.

52:28

And at the end of that exhibit, we also have a challenge to people to really think about their own lives and what has happened.

52:41

And we make sure they understand, because we have people that go through there, men and women who have been involved in abortion, and they're in tears as they go through and realize what they've done.

52:50

And we want to remind them that God is a loving, gracious, forgiving, merciful God. And He promises to forgive our sins, to remove them as far as the

52:58

East is from the West and so on. And so it's also got forgiveness in there. But it's an incredible exhibit, nothing else like it in the world.

53:05

No, indeed. And that's just one exhibit of the many exhibits we have at the Creation Museum. Yes, indeed.

53:12

Indeed. It is so profoundly moving. Anyone who has not yet seen it,

53:18

I very much encourage you go to the Creation Museum, see this. I don't know how any person who has not, at least someone who has not yet been completely given over to a depraved mind,

53:31

I don't know how they could go through that exhibit and come out on the other end, anything but 100 % pro -life.

53:40

It's just, it's amazing. It's amazing. Well, Ken, what are the future plans?

53:46

I hinted a second ago, every time I go to the Creation Museum or the ARC, there's something new. I see some construction going on behind you right now.

53:55

So what have you, what's in the plan? Oh, we're always on the move. You don't want to stay still. I mean, you know,

54:01

I'm always talking to people about what's the next thing we're going to do before we even finish what we're doing. But there's a lot more people out there to impact with the message of God's Word and the gospel.

54:11

Here at the Creation Museum, actually behind me, we're building a whole new zoo. We were donated money for a massive stage to do live animal programs out there at the zoo.

54:21

And we're also building, it'll be the largest glass conservatory in the state of Kentucky, housing permanent display of plants.

54:29

And we're going to be raising the plants of the Bible in there. And we've got a classroom or two classrooms to go with that, where we'll also have some educational teaching as well.

54:40

Down at the ARC, we're building right now a welcome center, a new welcome center. The funds of this were donated last year, or the year before, actually.

54:49

And also a big building to house. It'll be one of the biggest, if not the biggest, indoor model of Jerusalem in the world.

54:57

It'll be certainly the most up -to -date archaeologically. And it's going to be exquisite, and we're going to follow through the life of Christ.

55:03

And it's going to be absolutely stunning. We also just installed an exhibit on, actually two exhibits on the third deck of the

55:14

ARC. One is a Torah scroll that was donated to us, a decommissioned Torah scroll. And we unwound it from Genesis to Exodus.

55:22

And we have a lot in regard to teaching of how the scripture was transmitted down generation after generation.

55:31

And then we also have an exhibit on the ARCs of the world, where somebody went around the world and they bought

55:37

ARCs in countries all over the world, because everyone's heard of Noah's Ark. And even though a lot of them are little bathtub

55:43

ARCs and all the rest of it, it's an exquisite collection. And we've got it there with our flood legends exhibit, because it fits with the fact that there are flood legends all over the world, and people have heard of the flood.

55:55

We also are bringing more and more programs into the Answer Center. You've spoken at a pastor's conference in the past.

56:04

You've been there for a few times. And of course, we hope to have you back again, because people love you speaking.

56:13

That's very kind. I would love to. And then we actually brought in, we're going to bring them back in in November, a theater group from down in South Carolina who did

56:23

The Horse and His Boy from the Chronicles of Narnia, which was really stunningly done.

56:30

And then in January, they're going to do Pilgrim's Progress. We have the biggest Christian music festival in the world at the

56:37

Ark Encounter, 40 days of continuous concerts. And we do all sorts of other conferences and teaching programs.

56:43

Our women's conference this year booked out real quickly at 2 ,000, nearly 2 ,000 women.

56:49

And so then we were doing a second one in the same week. So we're doing two women's conferences in the same week with the same speakers.

56:56

So we're doing all sorts of things there. We have educational programs for children and for young people.

57:03

We have a couple of science labs where we teach them science programs. We also have at the

57:08

Ark, we have a virtual reality experience. And we have a carousel and we have a zoo at the back of the

57:14

Ark as well. And we have zip lines at both locations. People say, why do you have zip lines? Well, Christians can have fun too. That's right.

57:20

So you can tell we're always doing things. And of course, at the Ark, we have the

57:26

Life -Size Ark, which is the biggest freestanding timber frame structure in the world and filled with 130 exhibits in all three decks.

57:34

So they're amazing places, the two leading Christian -themed attractions in the world. It is amazing.

57:40

It's just mind -boggling. It's hard to comprehend all that y 'all have done there.

57:46

I should say all that God has done through you there. It's just amazing. And anybody who has not yet been to the

57:52

Creation Museum and or the Ark, do yourself a favor. Don't plan on seeing it all in one day either.

57:59

There's a lot of stuff there. So, Ken, thank you. Minimum of three days. Yeah, I would say so.

58:06

Minimum of three days. Absolutely. Absolutely. Your time will be much better spent going to the

58:12

Ark and the Creation Museum than Disney World. Absolutely. Ditch Mickey Mouse, go see the

58:18

Ark, go see the Creation Museum. Yeah. Ditch the woke place, come to the non -woke place. Exactly.

58:24

100%. 100%. Well, Ken, as we close out, brother, can

58:30

I get you to just close us with a short gospel presentation? Well, you know, if I'm going to give a gospel presentation,

58:38

Justin, you know where we should start? We should start with the book of Genesis. And the reason is because we have the foundations to understand the gospel right there.

58:49

In fact, the first time the gospel was ever preached is Genesis 3 .15, where God promised a

58:54

Savior. Because of our sin, because we and Adam sinned against God, death came into the world.

59:02

And then that means we're separated from God spiritually and our bodies die.

59:08

But that's not the end of it. Scripture makes it clear. After death comes a judgment. So as sinners, we can't live with a holy

59:15

God. But God back there in Genesis 3 .15 promised that someone would come who would crush the serpent, who would pay the penalty for our sin, be raised from the dead, and offer a free gift of salvation.

59:29

And so Genesis sets the foundation. Who made us, what our problem is, sin, the consequence of that, our bodies die.

59:38

Everyone's going to die. Everyone watching this program is going to die. But it's your body that dies.

59:44

It's a tent that you live in, but the real you isn't going to die. And the Bible says that if you have received a free gift of salvation, because God promised a

59:54

Savior, and that Savior came 4 ,000 years later, actually. After creation, a

01:00:01

Savior came. God stepped into history as a man to be the babe in a manger, the

01:00:07

God man, the perfect man. Because a man brought sin and death into the world. A man would have to pay the penalty for sin and death, but it can't be one of us.

01:00:14

We're sinners. So God stepped into history in the person of his Son to be the perfect man, to pay the penalty for sin, death on the cross.

01:00:22

He conquered the devil, but he was raised from the dead. He has ultimate power. And for those who put their faith and trust in him, then receive a free gift of salvation.

01:00:33

Then when we die, we spend eternity with him. And the Bible has a warning that if you have not received that free gift of salvation, it says there'll be a second death.

01:00:43

That second death is eternal separation from God. And that's why I always say to people, the

01:00:49

Bible talks about Christians being born again, born again of the Spirit of God, to put our faith and trust in him.

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If you're not born again, if you're not born twice, you're born as a human and then born again in the

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Spirit of God. If you're not born twice, the Bible says you will have a second death.

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You'll die twice. But if you're born again, you only die once and then go to spend eternity with him.

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And I pray that everyone understands if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, you believe

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God has raised him from the dead, you repent of your sin, receive that free gift of salvation, you'll be saved for eternity.

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No one can take it away from you. And you will know, that's what the scripture says, you will know that you have eternal life with the

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Lord Jesus Christ. That's what it's all about. There's no other important message in the entire universe. Amen and amen.

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Amen. Ken, thank you so much for giving us your time. We appreciate you so very much.

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We give the Lord praise for what he's done through you and through all of the fine folks there at Answers in Genesis.

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And may God increase your reach, brother. Thank you. Hey, thanks a lot, Dustin. We'll see you again out here at the

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Arkham Museum. I look forward to that. I sure do. Okay. Bye -bye. Thank you. Bye -bye. Thank you so much for watching, dear ones.

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Until our next time together, may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of his