Isn't It Divisive to Discuss Controversial Issues? | Part 1

The Cost of Silence and the Call to Contend for the Faith

What that means is once you start putting them in the position of influencing, you know, like, especially adult Christian men and teach and teaching them what they should and shouldn't be doing and what is what is right and what is wrong and what's biblical and not biblical and, you know, all of this stuff event, I mean, eventually, it's not surprising that for many people, Christianity is an effeminate religion.

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Hearing nothing but doom and despair on the radio. The message of Christianity is that salvation is found in Christ alone and any who reject Christ therefore forfeit any hope of salvation, any hope.

Of heaven. The issue is that humanity is in sin and the wrath of almighty God is hanging over our.

Head. They will hear his words, they will not act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment, when the fires of wrath come, they will be consumed and they will perish. God wrapped himself in flesh, condescended and became a man, died on the cross for sin, was resurrected on the third day, has ascended to the right hand of the father where he sits now to make intercession for us.

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words, they will act upon them, and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day, their house will stand.

Why Discussing Controversial Issues Is Necessary

Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask. We're your hosts, Harrison Kerrigg and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age-old question, isn't it divisive to discuss controversial issues?

Now, Tim, as we kick this episode off, what Bible verse do you have to read for us about addressing controversial issues? Tim Mullett.

Yeah, sure. So, Jude 1, 3 says, Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

So, there you go.

Jared Okay, so how do you feel like that Bible verse relates to the topic of discussion for this episode?

Tim. I mean, obviously, you're living in a time right now where people have little tolerance for anyone who steps outside the current expected rules of engagement in that way. And I mean, you can just think about the way the denominational structures work, the way that Big Evil works in general, and what you'll find is that there's a strong and silent, powerful expectation, particularly in certain denominations, that you don't shine a spotlight on problems.

And so, basically, you don't really deal with them. And the same thing is true in most churches. There's just this strong, powerful, unspoken agreement that I'm not going to talk about your sin and you're not going to talk about my sin.

Jared. You mean the 11th commandment, right?

Tim Yeah.

Jared Thou shalt be nice.

Tim. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, thou shalt be winsome, right? But then the issue is, I mean, obviously, Jesus says, blessed are the peacemakers, because theirs is the kingdom of heaven and all that. So, I mean, there's obviously a lot of value in being peacemakers.

But then the issue is, I mean, Jude even knows that. He says, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you appealing for you to contend for the faith that was once all delivered to the saints.

And the issue is because certain people have crept in and noticed whose condemnation has long ago been marked out. So, like, the issue is that, yeah, I mean, it would be wonderful if we could all just sit around and just discuss all the things that we have in common and the wonderful salvation that Jesus has accomplished for us, that we accept by grace through faith and all that.

I mean, that would be a wonderful thing that we could all spend our time doing. But the issue is that, I mean, there really isn't any doctrine in all of the scripture that is not controversial to someone, okay?

So, I mean, if everyone agreed on these things, then there would be no necessity to contend earnestly for anything, but then the Bible obviously gives us categories of things that we need to argue over.

And there's obviously some way to weigh the difference between these things, but I mean, there's a category for contending earnestly for the faith. And a lot of what you find in the Bible when you're reading the Bible is there's a lot of war language that's related to a Christian's basic responsibilities, right?

So, I mean, you just think about the shield of faith, the sword of the Spirit, everything, all those kind of metaphors that you're going to find. I mean, the weapons of warfare are not carnal, but mighty in God for casting down strongholds and arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, we're called to go on the offensive.

We're not just called to just endlessly, mindlessly praise everyone and be encouraging all day long. So, there's certainly a place to contend earnestly for the things that matter and contend earnestly for the scriptures in that way.

But then, yeah, I mean, obviously a lot of people, basically their ears have grown dull and they don't really have much of a place for that in their own minds, for sure.

Church Methodology, Big Eva, and the Fear of Offending

Petey. Right. Yeah, and I think you see sort of the downside of that approach that you're describing right now from, you know, Big Eva and those types where you end up having a church that is woefully unprepared when it comes time to go on the offensive, right?

And so, the example that we've used a bunch or that we've referenced a lot is what happened back in 2020, right? And pre -2020, you have all these pastors, seminary professors, well-known, platformed Christians online who are all saying, hey, when do you resist the government?

When do you resist the government? Well, you resist the government when they tell you to sin, right? And so, if they start taking away the Bible, then you resist them. And if they start taking away church, then you resist them, all of this.

And then 2020 came, and it was like all that just went out the window. And all of a sudden, it was no, you know, Romans 13, you do what the government says no matter what, and you're just kind of looking around, you know, and you're saying, hey, what's going on?

I thought we were all in agreement on this, but I guess apparently we're not now. And so, you just, it seems like you have this, you set up the church in a way where, hey, the minute that you start getting any sort of negative pushback from non-Christians, then you know that you're in the wrong because it looks like you're not being nice, right?

You're not being nice because you're not doing what the government said, you're not being nice because you're not being inclusive.

Petey Oh, the world is watching.

Yeah, the world is watching, that was the SBC. I mean, that's a legitimate point. I can't even, it really kind of, it really kind of blows my mind that that was an approved message from the S, or you know, phrase, tagline, whatever you want to call it from the SBC back then is the world is watching because in my mind, it's just like, well, who cares?

God is watching. I care about what God thinks. I don't care about what the world thinks. The Bible says the world's going to hate us no matter what. If we're faithful, the Bible says they'll hate us. So, why do you care?

I mean, why are you pushing for favor from the world at all? But then I think when you have this hey, we've got to be, thou shalt be nice attitude to everyone, what ends up happening is it kind of seems like you're just never really allowed to go on the offensive to fight any sort of spiritual warfare in this fallen world.

And so, it just seems like you're leaving a lot of Christians essentially like totally unprepared to face a lot of the trials and tribulations and persecution that they are guaranteed by Christ to face.

Is that right?

Jared. Yeah, I mean, sure. So, I think a lot of this kind of conversation, you know, is divisive to discuss controversial issues in general. A lot of this just is the result of certain kind of church methodology that has happened.

I mean, particularly it's present in bigger churches. So, you know, you have like the Seekers Instinctive Movement that basically just says that it's our job to try to pull the audience and figure out what they want and give them what they want.

And in many churches, I mean, your pastor basically he functions as like a politician basically. So, it's basically the pastor's job to figure out how to create some kind of artificial unity that typically it just centers around the common interest of people in general.

And so, what you want to do, I mean, and a lot of this is just related to money issues, you know, it's related to the fact that the more that you talk about like issues that are deemed controversial or whatever, the more you talk about these kind of issues, the more that you have the propensity to offend people, right?

So, they're almost in the minds of many people, there's this expectation that somehow it's just sinful to offend people or to say anything that they would possibly find offensive, right? So, it's the job of a pastor in there is just basically like in the minds of most people, the job of the pastor is to try to basically coddle people and gently push them, you know, give them gentle nudges every once in a while, but then whenever he talks about like, you know, topics, like it's just always, you know, it's never like in the sense of, hey, I'm talking to you, right?

And here's some things that you need to think about, or here are some things that anyone else is wrong. And so, I mean, you are living in an evangelical subculture, you know, that we live in where in the minds of many people, like you don't name names, you don't criticize anyone strongly, you don't criticize any idea very strongly.

And a lot of this is just related to just the Together for the Gospel and the TGC kind of impulses where in the minds of many people, you basically are just trying to create this big tent that can fit as many people as possible.

And so, a lot of the church strategies that come along with that is that you water down your statement of faith. So, I mean, if you think about like just going to church websites in general, all their church websites you can imagine going to, I mean, they routinely have very minimal statement of faiths that, you know, can get as many people on board with that as possible.

And then when you have people come to your church, you basically you identify the areas of disagreement, which are many, right? And basically, you don't take strong stance on any of those things. And if you are going to address it, then most of the time what you're expected to do is just kind of do the, let's teach all sides equally and do the hermeneutics of humility where I'm just too humble to take a stand and all that.

But then the issue is that there's a lot of like very important things that need to be discussed. And what you have is you have within the larger evangelical world, you have basically a ceasefire that's been declared on a lot of secondary issues because secondary issues are like issues where there's a lot more disagreement among different kinds of Christians.

And so, you know, the idea has been with the TGC and the, you know, Together for the Gospel crowd is that you try to gain unity around the most essential things and then you declare like a ceasefire on everything else, right?

And so, then like, if you try to discuss any of these topics that have been declared like a ceasefire on, then basically you're viewed as a divisive person and that's the way that most people view these things.

But then the problem is that like this, you know, center-bound organizational strategy here, it just hasn't worked. You look at what's actually happening at all these organizations, they've gone more and more left because basically what they've done is it's like, well, the only thing that you're allowed to even care about is the gospel.

And as long as we can answer those questions right on a theological exam or something like that, sign off on them, then that's all that matters. And then anything beyond that, you know, that's just being divisive.

You don't want to go there. But the problem is that, yeah, I mean, what was ended up happening is you have a bunch of organization who have platformed, you know, individuals who are experiencing, you know, experiencing sex attraction, you know, all the women in leadership kind of discussions that they're endlessly pushing on us.

And so, I mean, you basically, you just have a set of rules that say that, that basically the pastor's job is to be a politician and you don't talk very strongly about, you know, secondary issues. And that even bleeds over into primary issues.

I mean, really, like you just, when you're in the unity at all costs business, then basically you just have to avoid all these things and just hope for the best, but yeah, it's just a mess.

Women in Leadership, Effeminacy, and the Loss of Courage

Pete. Yeah, eventually, eventually you get to a point where you can't even define what a pastor is. You have to form a committee to figure out what the definition is. And it's pretty interesting, you know, as you've mentioned some of these organizations, it seems like they definitely seem to go further and further left as time passes.

And as that's happened, you know, a lot of them have either disbanded or they've become a lot less influential than they were in the past. So like, I think together for the gospel, I can't remember. I can't remember when they disbanded.

Yeah, but they're not together for the gospel anymore. You've got like the gospel coalition, right? And I think it was them that put out a picture a month or two ago that was like, you know, say, Hey, to our staff or our staff is celebrating whatever, you know, whatever holiday was going on at the time.

And it was like, it was like 30 people probably. And it was, I think, 27 or 28 women.

Jared Was that them or was that.

Pete One or two guys.

Jared Christianity Today? I can't.

Pete I can't remember now. It was one of those organizations. I'm second guessing myself on which one of them it is now, but it's interesting that I think that says something about your stuff. Like, I mean, we've talked about this before, how, for example, you know, women tend to be the more nurturing of the two sexes, right?

That's how God made them and God made them with that. That's not a flaw, right? That's designed on purpose because they're meant to be caretakers, the primary caretakers of the children and whatnot. And so, that's a good thing, you know, within their realm of responsibility, their primary realm of responsibility that God's given them.

But then what that means is once you start putting them in the position of influencing, especially adult Christian men and teaching them what they should and shouldn't be doing and what is right and what is wrong and what's biblical and not biblical and all of this stuff, I mean, eventually, it's not surprising that for many people, Christianity is an effeminate religion where you're supposed to be nice to everyone and get along with everyone and Jesus was the carefree, loving hippie that, you know, make peace, not war and all of this when that's just not the case when you read through the Bible.

I mean, yes, obvious, yes, there is something to be said like you were saying about someone wanting to be a peacemaker and that is a big deal, but then at the same time, you know, like peace just isn't always possible.

I mean, we've made the comment before, we have people who when we put out, you know, episodes, especially the more controversial, I mean, they're probably all controversial to someone, but the extremely controversial ones, you'll always have someone who comes out and is like, are you really sure you want to die on this hill?

And the response is like, well, I, you know, for me at least is like, well, I don't, you know, I don't necessarily like want to die on this hill, but do you really want to kill me on this hill? Like, it's oftentimes, you know, like people are going to come after you and like war, you mean, it's like the, you know, Lord of the Rings with King Theoden where he's, they're asking him if he's going to fight and if he's going to join them in battle.

And, you know, he's like, no, we're, we're not going to fight. We're not going to fight. This isn't our fight. And I think it's Aragorn basically tells them, you know, war is here, whether you're going to fight it or not, but you don't really, essentially you don't get a choice.

And if you're going to fight, you're going to fight or you're going to get conquered basically.

Truth, Orthodoxy, and the Need to Speak Against Cultural Confusion

Yep. Well, I mean, I think, yeah, as you're reading the Bible, one of the things you're remembering is that there are all these war metaphors and I mean, like Timothy, guard the sound deposit that has been entrusted to you and, you know, all that.

I mean, so you have that, you have constantly have war language, you have contenderness for the faith kind of language. Like the issue is the truth matters. Like that's, that's the issue. So God's Word matters.

The truth matters. And it's not just, it's not just that it matters in the abstract. Okay. Like, it's not just like it matters to get the test right because that, you know, pleases God. I mean, obviously it glorifies God to have sound theology and to have good doctrine that's pleasing to the Lord.

Our ultimate goal is to be pleasing to Him in everything that we do. And, you know, error is, I mean, obviously Satan's the father of lies and, you know, God's not pleased with that. And at the same time, I mean, like the issue is like orthodoxy leads to orthopraxy.

Like there's just like, you look at the wreckage that has happened in the church over these issues that have been declared a ceasefire on. And I mean, if there's not something inside of you that is stirred up to say, Hey, we have to help people.

So what does God put us on the planet to do? I mean, he's not put us on the planet just to, you know, just be by herself and reading the Bible all day long and ignore everyone else. And we have a mission.

We need to teach people to do all that Jesus began to do and teach. And what you have is you have, you have a lot of areas that are strongholds of the enemy, like that are significant strongholds of the enemy that, you know, our culture is basically just declared that we're not allowed to talk about.

Right. So, I mean, most of the topics that we talk about, it's pretty interesting. I mean, most of the things that we're talking about, we're talking about issues that God has not declared off limits.

Like we're not talking about issues that the Bible says you're not allowed to talk about. Like we're talking about issues that our culture has basically declared taboo. Right. So, like we're living in a time right now where our culture is basically just embracing insanity with almost everything that's in them, right?

And one of the primary means they do this is by ceding control of the dictionary. I mean, basically, they've just decided, they decided what words were allowed to say, what topics were allowed to bring up.

And, you know, most Christians, they just go along with it. And a lot of it is related to kind of a gender difference where, you know, you have men who are called to be strong and be courageous and to stand firm in the faith and, you know, admonish.

I mean, you have all these things, all these passages in the Bible, admonish one another, exhort one another, correct one another, rebuke one another. Like you have all these commands that just absolutely have no meaning in a culture where you basically, like the greatest command that you can possibly have is just to be nice, right?

So, be nice, get along, be friendly and everything else. And so, you're living in a time right now where you don't have a culture, you don't have a society that has really any tolerance for discussing anything, right?

Which is interesting. I mean, just watch a presidential debate and you'll see that we don't even know how to debate anymore. We don't even know how to argue anymore. If you were to, I mean, just go back in history and look at some of the historical things that they argued about.

I mean, they argued about things that we could care less about right now, you know, because it was so important to them to get God right, to get the Trinity right, to get these things right. I mean, the things that we're talking about today, I mean, these are just, like we're living in a time right now where the primary points of contention are just insane things.

Like insane propositions that no one throughout the history of the world ever believed in. I mean, a lot of the things that we talk about, a lot of things that we discuss, they feel like edgy or something like that, but they're just like basic questions that the first few chapters of the Bible address.

They're just basic foundational worldview questions. Like what is a man? What is a woman? What is God's design for the human race, right? So, I mean, you could go through our list of titles and a lot of it is just, it's related to just what are human beings?

What has God called us to do? And you're living in a culture that has so lost its way to the point we're just saying basic things. And a lot of times people will get triggered when you just ask the question, but if you just ask the question, like just a basic kind of question that's been declared taboo, then you're going to have a lot of people who are basically saying, yeah, you're divisive and you're being needlessly offensive and you're provoking people and all this kind of stuff.

But I mean, the issue is do you love God and do you love your neighbor? Because the way of the transgressor is hard and what we're doing is insane. So, when you watch people just running off a cliff to their own destruction, if there's not something that stirred within you to say, hey, we have to help them because that path leads to nowhere good, they don't know what you do.

And a lot of what's happened is we're just living in a time right now just a crisis of courage and you don't have individuals who are willing to stand on much of anything. And just like you said, I mean, with the COVID stuff, I mean, that was just a great example of a time where you thought, I mean, I thought for so long that we've been talking about when persecution comes, we're going to do this, and when persecution comes, we're going to do this.

And just to watch basically the entirety of Christians in America rollover and fold, right? I mean, that was

Pete. Right. And not even just like for a few months, but for years.

Jared. Yeah. I mean, it was just, I mean, that's disturbing to your core, you know, just to watch and say that that's the state we're at right now, right? And a lot of that's the reason why we started this podcast is because we're, you know, we're post -2020, we're looking around the world and we're seeing that, man, there's no one who has any courage whatsoever there.

We're just a bunch of individuals who were afraid, scared of, you know, basically everything. Like we're so weak at this point as Christians and individuals that we will walk around and do insane like things.

We will lie to each other just to avoid the slightest, you know, persecution that you can possibly imagine. So we're at that stage of the church right now. And I think what you need is you need a lot of people to calm, wake up.

And what you need is you need people to look at the example of Jesus and see the way that He communicates. And, you know, that would fix a lot of our impulses related to these topics, because people just, they fundamentally, they don't know who Jesus is.

They don't know how He communicated. You know, they don't know what His mission was, you know, how He talked to people. And, you know, what they think He did was He was just kind of a nice guy who was nice to everyone, accepted them for who they were and patted them on the back and wouldn't dare to say anything that anyone could possibly be offended by, but that's just, that's not who Jesus is.

And we have a mission and we have a mission to call people to repentance, like faith and repentance and what Jesus has done. And, you know, we're.

Living in a very confused time for sure. Pete. Yeah, so why don't you spell that portion of it out a little more for us in terms of what did Jesus actually do? I mean, what, so I know you're saying, hey, He wasn't the kind of person who just accepted everyone the way they were and hey, man, you know, that's all good.

You've got your inner demons, you're fighting men and, you know, like the hippie, the hippie kind of guy. That's how people, a lot of people perceive Him to be, but then you're saying, no, that's not how He actually was.

So, I guess give us some examples of what Jesus was actually like when it came to controversy. I mean, when did He choose to engage in controversy? When did He choose not to engage in controversy? You know, did He choose to engage in controversy?

Did He ever choose to avoid it? You know, give us some examples of that so some of the people listening who might have thought, hey, no, Jesus was the kind of person who, I mean, the Bible says He humbled Himself to the form of a servant.

I mean, He didn't come to bring judgment, right? So, there's no way He could be a controversial person. So, I guess explain a little bit of who Jesus actually was and how He acted for the person that's thinking about Jesus that way.

Jesus, Repentance, and Confronting Sin

Jared. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. So, you know, Mark 1 15, Jesus says that this is after John was arrested and thrown into prison, but this is just a summary of Jesus' ministry. So, John 1 15, Jesus basically came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God and saying the time is fulfilled, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, repent and believe the gospel.

Like that's the summary of Jesus' ministry is repent and believe the good news. And that's, I mean, that's essentially like if you want to think about what He's doing, He's calling people to repentance, like as a feature, like not as a bug, right?

So, like what people think when they think about Jesus is that He came to this earth basically just to love people, right? Like and love people means like not like love in the biblical sense, but like love in the sense of what our culture thinks of it.

Yeah, you know, acceptance, affirmation, what's it called? Universal positive regard. But then you think about His ministry, you think about what He actually does. Jesus basically goes for the jugular in almost every conversation He has.

Pete. So, give us an example.

Jared I mean, like the rich and grueler, right? Like the rich and grueler, like He goes to the identifies that area of the rich and grueler's life that needs to change. He doesn't ignore it, He puts the finger on it right away.

Like first conversation, right? Go sell all you have, follow me. And the rich and grueler went away sorrowful because he had great possessions. And Jesus didn't beg him to come back, right? Like Jesus' strategy wasn't just to say like, well, I just need to get him to hang out with me for a little bit, you know, for a long period of time and just get him used to being around me and acquaint, and then maybe I'll slip it in there that he needs to repent of this big thing that he needs to repent of.

But I mean, like, you know, every single encounter you can think about, you know, you have the woman at the well, he basically talks to her about like, the fact that she's had five husbands and the one she has right now isn't her husband, he brings it up right away.

Like, that's the issue. He goes, he brings up the thing that they don't want to hear the most because the summary of his message is repent, the time is fulfilled, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, repent and believe the gospel.

I mean, you think about the Sermon on the Mount, everyone thinks the Sermon on the Mount is just this wonderful, you know, sermon or whatever else, but like, you don't understand the context that that's given.

Like, he's given this Sermon on the Mount to a crowd full of people of whom include the scribes and the Pharisees and basically the whole time he's sitting there rebuking them in the midst of this. I mean, he says, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom, right?

Like, he's saying, he's basically saying they're all lost, okay? So, what's happened is that people, they read Jesus in the Bible and they don't have any category for him actually talking to real people.

I mean, just imagine someone going into the Southern Baptist Convention and saying, unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of these people, you know, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven, right?

Like, these people, they bind on, you know, people heavy burdens that they won't bear, they're whitewashed tombs, right? Like, the issue is like, you think about the nature of, like, he's talking to people, like, and you look at the culture of society we live in right now, we don't have any tolerance for any of that.

Like, you're not even allowed to name a name. But Jesus, in his sermons, he points at people and he says, like, you know, like, these people are lost, right? Like, these people devour widows' houses. But that's just, like, you think about his ministry, like, that's a feature of his ministry from start to finish.

I mean, like, when he had, he feeds 5 ,000 people. He feeds, you know, he feeds 5 ,000 people and immediately after that, he starts teaching them and he basically says, if you don't eat my.

Flesh and drink my blood, you have no part in it. Petey. And extremely controversial thing to say.

Jared. And then after that, they get all mad at him. Petey.

Some would say blasphemous thing to say. It sounds like it's blasphemous.

They get all mad at him after that and they don't follow him after that. And he's not even, like, he's not, like, upset about it. He looks at his disciples, he says, are you going to go too? And their response to that is, you know, where else are we going to go?

You have the words of eternal life. But I mean, like, the issue is he wasn't in the business of building a crowd for the sake of building a crowd. That's not what motivated him. Like, his message was, the time is fulfilled, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, repent and believe the gospel.

And in every single encounter that he is in, you can just see him immediately talking about repentance, right? Talking about repentance. And the same thing is true of John the Baptist, like, you brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

That was the nature of their ministries, you know? So you're living in a time where we don't have any tolerance for any of that at all. Like, we don't have any tolerance for anyone who is preaching a message of repentance.

And like, the issue is, like, there's no way to preach a message of repentance if you're not allowed to talk about the areas that people are living in open, unrepentant, scandalous sin, right?

Critical Theory, Protected Classes, and Cultural Taboo

TB. Yeah, like the untouchable idols of the day, right?

PW. So, you can look at a list of our podcasts and all the titles that we're talking about, and there's nothing about these, I mean, there's nothing inherently inflammatory about any of them, but the issue with all of our titles is that we're addressing these areas where there's massive cultural confusion right now.

And a lot of it's related to the diversity, equity, and inclusion kind of stuff. I mean, like, basically, you're living in a world that critical theory basically teaches people to view the world through the lens of power dynamics, like, that's the way that critical theory teaches people to even think about these things.

So, when you look at the world, you're supposed to divide the world up into oppressors and the oppressed. And so, then, the issue is, as it relates to racism or something along those lines, the issue is not whether or not, in the minds of many people, racism actually occurs, it's how does it occur in any particular encounter, right?

So, basically, the issue is there are protected classes that exist in our society. So, women are a protected class. So, any topic we've ever done, which talks about the sins of women, we're violating the rules of critical theory, which basically say that women are victims, they're oppressed class, right?

And so, that's viewed as punching down. And so, you can't attack the protected classes. So, women are protected classes, minorities are protected classes, sexual deviants are protected classes. What you're not allowed to do is you're not allowed to talk about the problems that result.

From that. And so, you can look at our They're blasphemy laws.

Right. They're the new blasphemy laws. So, basically, you're not allowed to talk about anything related to any of those things. But then the issue is that that leads to a lot of problems in our society.

And so, when you give people a blank slate to sling with impudence, they will, okay? That's what happens, they will. So, you look at our podcast titles and all of them are just dealing with these categories of diversity, equity, inclusion, kind of categories for the most part.

And they're dealing with these primary fundamental relationships between men and women, relationships between what is marriage? What is marriage designed to do? What is the purpose of sex? You're just not allowed to talk about any of that.

You're not allowed to talk about racial issues at all. But then the issue is, it's not that God doesn't have anything to say about it. He answers these questions in the opening few chapters of the Bible.

I mean, you could pretty much read Genesis 1 through 3 and you have everything you need to answer most of the primary areas of confusion in our society. But what you have is you have a lot of people who basically are taking their cues from the pagans.