Three Mormon rejects

You can say what you want, but you won't around me. Don't hear any music at all. All jamming out, and I have zero.

Bits. I have no music. A misfit in the trailer park at night. A misprint with the six sick. My two cents never made sense either to me or anyone else inside of the Nine Smith on my right side. Why are you staring at your cock died son and my John Hancock on the dotted line?

Tell me what's the bottom line. The bottom line is I'm not right. I'm not left, but the cellophane won't fight. There's nothing left, but the spotlight. Hold my beer. You can find me in the moonlight.

You can say what you want. You can say what you want, but you won't around me.

What.

What's in the deep end, and I can't find my assigned seat to sit in. My theology don't fit in black sheep of the Reformation sheep in. Just another Baptist baptized again. The bastard child of Anabaptist Hostage out of Reformation society.

We don't need your education. Give me a Bible in a bookshelf of dead man. Cigars bourbons and beer cans. Bowties tattoos and bearded men making Reformation. All right ladies and gentlemen welcome to open-air theology.

Introduction, Music, and Show Setup

This is a show that me and my homeboys get together and do. My name is Jeff. I'm one of the co-hosts. I'm also one of the elders at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tallahoma Tennessee. If you're ever in this area we would love to have you to worship the one true God with us also if you like the the intro music to this show.

Well me and my co-elder. Read my co-elder. He remastered it not me. I ain't do any of that stuff, but he remastered it and a lot of people have been asking you know. They would like to be able to have it whenever they want to so we're.

The single drops the single drops. I believe on the 22nd. Yeah, so Sorry, I'm gonna pass it over to Brayden. I don't stumble that I.

I.

Am pastor Brayden Patterson of well, so I got so much things to talk about now. So I am the pastor of Valley Baptist Church in southern, Idaho. We meet on Sundays at 11 a .m.. The morning on the Lord's Day if you live in that area.

I'd love to see you however on that note as well. I have been called to pastor a church in Southern, California Grace Bible Church. It's going to be full-time ministry. It's a confessional 1689 church really looking forward to that and so.

So Cal as I've heard they like to call it.

Anyway.

They meet on Sundays at 1030 a .m.. On the Lord's Day of them. Please if you live in that area and be a great blessing if you were to go to that church check it out even before my family and I get there and Love to see you in December when we do finally move so.

Also, I have reformed ex-mormon as YouTube channel go check that out, and we have a conference coming up in February. So go look up open air theology. Calm right.

Oh.

No, no. Open air theology conference.

Dot org.

Go to Jeff's Facebook click on Get yourself a ticket.

Dot.

Org.

On that note after I've done talking for five minutes. I'll pass the mic down to. We're not doing so well tonight.

No, we're not doing well at all as a matter of fact, so if I'm gonna be I'm gonna be looking in the camera. I know I'm looking at you now, but I don't see these yahoos over here. Oh, you don't see anybody well.

No, I see if I do this, but now I'm not looking through the camera because I'm on my iPad. So I'm I'm gonna do that. I like it or look at me. I know it's it's it's it's a rough day, but it was a good day, but a rough day.

I'm having technical dip so I'm on my iPad my cameras not working on my on my computer and Just so I could keep on whining a little bit more. I didn't even get to hear the new song. I didn't even hear.

It's the same way. I haven't been able to upload it yet. And I'm not gonna upload it to the open air theology until it drops.

Okay, well, I still couldn't hear it and you guys are dancing and it's just not the same. I just I You know cuz you know the song is something that really gets us going the song, you know Draw, you know Jeff rap everybody's going and I got nothing so I'm not motivated at all to do this and now we're talking about Mormonism.

I do have however a Lost City Opus X cigar that I plan on smoking to the glory of God after the show. Let's introduce myself. My name is Tom Shepherd and I'm a member of Grace Bible Church of Bernie and I I am the co-host of open air theology.

I do a YouTube show even if none all about evangelism. But today we're gonna we're gonna be talking about somewhat about evangelism today, aren't we. But I was with some Mormons. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean I'm excited to be here.

I think you're. It might have been.

It's just not fair that's just not fair. So so we are the three Mormon rejects and Because we have facial hair could you imagine.

We got to talk about that real quick. Number one. We had a great graphic for the show that Brayden Patterson Had ready to go and it was all of us know it was looking good. And then he made this fake one where everybody had beards including Brayden.

Weird beard and Jeff wasn't supplied. I don't even have the right. Do you have that you have a different nose?

It's horrible. Awesome.

No, so anyway, Jeff messed up and on. By the way, I can't even see comments on this either. So I can't. That's sovereignty.

That's sovereignty, right.

Horrible graphic. That was one of the worst graphics that we've ever done on the show. We're getting let me let me do this.

You're real fast. I'll show it just in case somebody doesn't have it because I thought it was pretty funny.

And it was it was just fault.

You know, it was without a doubt not none of Braden's none of Braden's that Sean I got nothing.

This is the first one that popped up so that's what I use. I was like, well, you know.

Oh.

My wife would divorce me if I looked like that Mormon with a beard.

Dude your beard and no wait to your chin.

Give me a beard without the nose. It was an AI thing. I did it was pretty funny. Well, what are we talking about tonight besides those Mormons those dim boys dim Mormons.

They're being called Mormons. So the melody is.

Yeah.

They really don't but not necessarily Mormons. We're talking about Martin. Martin I can't say we're Martin modern.

Mod earn. And there's a few words from Pastor Jeff Right.

There's a lot of words that this just straight lingo kid. Is going to write a booklet. Man, it was like well, let's think of a title. Hey, he says the title and I can't even say.

Man the architecture of the New Covenant.

We are talking about modern-day. LDS is actually so actually later later day better letter letter day Saints later.

Latest it's the latest.

These guys just can't get it right. Can they just keep on going ladder and ladder? I don't see how we audience.

Poor guys.

Yeah, please subscribe and share this video around. Let me just.

It's going to get better, okay, I swear here on out it's better now.

So there are. This this conversation really came up after several weeks ago. We talked about doing a show on this and then it was well We should do a show on this and that got precedence and then we're like, well.

Next week and then there was something else that popped up and so every Mormonism kept on getting put on the back burner and then in that meantime I had the opportunity to talk with a LDS individual named Zachary, right?

He's a LDS apologist guy and he was bringing up things. That he believes as an LDS member that when I was LDS, I would never say. And so it really opened my eyes about The lat latest day. Saints are evolving and they're muddying up the water even more in the process.

So would you say that they don't even just they don't even agree with the the the church leaders of the latter-day Saints right now?

That's absolutely.

Absolutely, not. Yep.

Evangelize them.

Absolutely.

You have a harder time putting a pin on what exactly they believe. Because it's going to change even in the middle of the conversation just so you can't actually nail them down on on an actual engaging conversation and so.

I mean.

There's so many things. So I'm gonna share a screen real fast with you. I think this is kind of funny because this happened right. As the show was starting I was I wanted to pull this up just to show people this.

But let's do this. BAM.

BAM.

So.

We talked about different AI programs, right? Pastors stealing chat GPT sermons and that. Well, did you know that there is a website called LDS bot and it's an AI apologist.

LDS Wow. No, sweet website. So I said, what is this jank to it?

Responded and then I called it a heretic and it didn't respond. So.

I don't know.

Yeah, so just I mean you can see the type of ways that they're they're Going about now being able to argue with Christians. And so if I if an LDS person that is really wanting to have a thorough conversation with the Christian they utilize this.

And it's a Christian that's really unknowing. Hmm, you're gonna be thrown with a plethora of things that you don't know how to maybe handle right off the top of your head. So I hope that tonight we can give you some really valuable insights that hopefully will help you engage not only Mormons but Jehovah Witnesses and every other cult in between.

So.

Yeah, and eventually we're gonna have Jake D on here. Mr. Derringer. And We're gonna interview him on Jehovah Witnesses being that he is an ex Jehovah Witness. Right, and he can probably give us some practical tips on how to have those conversations.

Whenever they come knocking at your door or when I see them standing in an airport by a Tall box with information just their arms crossed.

So.

I did want to also start with showing this real fast. So this comes right from. So there's several places. I want to go with this like this conversation a night, but this comes right from Orgs website so when you talk to an LDS person and you bring up things that they are unfamiliar with.

Or at least when I was LDS This was the case if somebody had brought up something to me that I it was it sounded not right. It sounded anti is how I would describe it. It sounded like you're trying to undermine my belief.

I would just say well that that's anti Mormon and that doesn't come right from the LDS website. And so this is the LDS website on this topic right here. This is the 13 articles of faith that they have and these are just short Statements that the church holds to and in Statement of Faith 8 It says we believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God and so when you compare that statement right there to What Joseph Smith claimed when he was 14 or a story he claims when he's much older than 14 years old.

But one that he says he experienced when he was 14 was that Christ appeared to him the father and Christ appeared to him. Which right there are apologists red alarm should be going off because has anyone seen the father Jeff or Tom?

No, no, but Joseph Smith says he didn't and he says that Jesus told him.

Jesus you've seen the father.

Well, this is true, but they he's saying two different two different personages, right.

Different gods correct two different beings. Yep, two different according to Mormonism. Yeah, well.

We'll get into that too here in a moment as well, but Jesus tells Joseph supposedly that all their creeds Were an abomination in his sight. All the Protestant Believers all the Christians in Joseph Smith's day in the 1800s all their creeds were an abomination in sight.

That they drew near with their lips, but their hearts were far from him. And so part of the the creeds is chapter 1 paragraph 1 of the 1689 which is a confession that all three of us hold to. And it says that the Word of God the Bible the scriptures the 66 books are only infallible inspired sufficient rule of all knowledge and saving faith and so the Christian saying the Bible alone Is the sufficient revelation of God and the Book of Mormon is saying no out.

Nope. There's more and By putting in this word as far as it is translated correctly. They're putting a caveat under every contentious or contradictory claim from the book from the Bible That proves Mormonism wrong.

They can just say it wasn't translated correctly. Gotcha.

So kind of a win-win for them. Yep. Yep.

It's a it's a moving of the goalposts to make it so that somebody can never score on you. So I like even you bring up Ephesians 2 8 and 9. Well, that was that was translated incorrectly. Gotcha, you bring up Romans chapter 3.

Well, that was translated. Well, what if you break out the Greek?

Like if you were to just read to them the Greek. Yeah, they're they're.

They're not going to like it because of ultimately they think that it's been corrupted in some degree.

The manuscript.

Yep, and also.

Even in this talk go ahead, but will they pay, you know, like if you point out how the Book of Mormon has been changed Over the years.

When you are talking to your average when I say average I mean the LDS person that doesn't do a lot of doesn't have LDS bought right. Doesn't doesn't. Isn't actively engaging with Christians. That kind of LDS person isn't know any of this.

But.

And they think that there hasn't been any changes to the Book of Mormon but modern LDS apologists now are going way. Changing the changing definitions. That I would have never held to so something that that Zachary Wright guy that's he said that I would have never believed in when I was LDS.

Was that each one of us you Tom and Jeff myself. We are all as eternal as God is. That there's never been truly anything created that we've just been reshaped.

Which which also would include us being former sinners, but now achieving Godhead.

Yes.

So basically that claim would make God the father that we believe in. He would say that that Person was actually a former sinner. Yeah.

So when I was going to a Mormon church Just you know for people that don't know I for about two or three months I was attending a Mormon Church just to find out what they believe. What I was told is that we were spiritual offsprings of heavenly father.

That's how they would you know that that's the lingo so in heaven. The father had sex. Can we use that language here? With heavenly mother and had spiritual offsprings. So that right there eliminates us being internal.

Right if we were in any fact Created so so so even in their own theology. It seems to go against what? Mormons have taught and and so this is something that I was taught in.

In.

2004 ish by this.

Yeah, it is that that saying right there is completely different than anything I'd ever heard growing up as LDS I always had heard that we were spiritual offspring of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother and.

Then that was our pre-existence and then we came to earth to get our bodies so that then one day we could be It's all be like God the father or heavenly father. But now it's now it's removing that and saying well.

Science says nothing has come into existence and nothing can truly be destroyed. It's just that things change their their form. Well, that's exactly how God Or our God works is that we're all ontologically listen to this.

We're all ontologically the same. Just just different different stages of that sameness now would with the Mormon missionaries.

That that used to be the ones that are in the tie. What knocking on doors. Would they do that too or is this.

Yeah, I'm totally different. So something that we're gonna watch here in a moment is a Great brother in Christ. His name is Aaron and I'm gonna butcher his last name. It's Aaron.

Shove of loft.

Terrible. I think that was actually listen. I was practicing before we got on. I think that was the closest time I've gotten to it.

It's a terribly. It's all I've used out of Pentecostal Church.

He has brought to my attention I didn't know this was a thing so one of the ways that why Mormonism is being changed so much is that you have these rogue people that are doing their best to be apologists for the church and so they're changing all these different views on things and trying to arm people with with Answers that the church never officially take so then they have always a cop-out because they say well this hasn't been officially said.

This is just what I it's terrible stuff. And so the the group that it's called. It's called the Calvary.

It's.

Not Calvary is in the mountain of Calvary Christ was crucified. But like getting on your horses and riding a Calvary in the war. The Calvary on Facebook and it's this missionary group. That is I Would argue peddling this new modern more and more Latest day Saints mudding the water stuff and it's it's scary stuff.

Objective Authority, Scripture, and Mormon Goalposts

What now what. What do the true Mormons think of these guys real quick? Uh, I I think that I.

Would imagine as time goes on though. There'll probably be a more of official statement from the LDS Officials that just double down and say well if it doesn't come from us, then it's not the church's authority.

Or.

Or those that are in the main church would get a Prophet that would side with them just to keep that because because they hope to what the living prophets say not necessarily what dead Prophets have said.

That's right.

And so is that something that Aaron in this video discuss on is that in the 1950s to the 1970s? We had LDS prophets standing up and teaching XY or Z things behind their pulpit on general conference that now modern prophets are completely contradicting and having several teachings that are going against these things which which one's true and this gentleman his name's.

It's.

Dustin Dixon. Dustin Dixon. Who's this LDS? I would argue in practice an apologist here. Who's a part of this Calvary group. Who's a part of Zachary Wright and Travis Anderson? I think. Is another name that's in there.

He's he's. Essentially he says well both can be true, but they're contradictory statements and he just doesn't want to acknowledge it. So watch the clip here. I have a clip so I have. I have several clips here.

I will say that this first one that we show.

Does have a curse word in it at the very real quick. Can I ask this much? Michelle a question. Michelle. What is GTS why? She says hey, oh, hey GTS. Why sister? It's good. It's good to see you Jeff.

Jeff you just lol.

I'm just not with it, right? I mean, I'm I'm I'm 44 years old. Okay. I'm not a young buck no more. I get up in the middle of the night to pee five times and hurt myself twice. Listen this is a different kind of show.

Okay. This is a different show. Yeah. Answer Bruce. He asked do we only do vid videos? We would do a podcast. Ugly faces. And what fun would that be?

Yeah.

We will one day hopefully Lord, yeah. Before I play this video I do want to just show and the only reason I show this is not as this is a form of showing authority, but this was. This was my quad when I was LDS and I hope explain to them what a quad is.

It's the Book of Mormon the Bible the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price all bound together in one one go with it, but I just want to let you know that I Was very much an LDS member and so I'm speaking from experience and a What used to be a testimony on these things and I'm telling you when I was growing up This is a completely different form of Mormonism now and it's dangerous.

And so I hope that this is a blessing to everybody that watches. So but on that note, we're gonna watch just the first two minutes here of this does have a curse word in it. So if you don't want to hear the s-word said Skip for a couple minutes, but here it is.

I'm just tough enough. Yeah, just tough enough. We're. It's almost like Johnny Cash flipping somebody off. Yeah, that's.

Yeah, it's like my ability to choose good and wrong my ability to like do works of good or worse of evil. Yeah, but we would define that as a moral public. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah not having a premortal life.

I.

Well, if if I was created from nothing right and in God's infinite foreknowledge. Already knew what what place you're gonna put me in or what decisions I'd made. That's a pretty standard letter to save you though, no, it's not actually most latter-day saints we talked to believe in divine.

Shit we're all latter-day saints have a say but thank you. Doesn't matter to me. Most of your leaders though have taught that.

God knows the definite future when they've spoken on the issue.

But you know the story of Auster and Maxwell.

We're Blake Osler.

Corrects Neal I Maxwell on timelessness and he agrees with them on this point.

I don't I don't know how that what the outcome was, but okay, but the changes but the dominant.

Position of historic latter-day saint theology. Is that God knows the definite future? Okay, that's the dominant position for just traditional Christianity in general. I would expect those Protestant priests up positions to be within Christian dominant general.

I don't I don't. People haven't really give it much thought. Letters a.

Dialogue.

But your leaders have taught that God knows the definite future. I think that the Bible teaches that I'm I'm That who's posing a problem. That's why I brought it up. Yeah with agency and it also would contradict to a lot of the prophecies in the Bible.

I don't think your leaders think that's true. Okay, I was just appealing to your authority, right? My authority.

No, no.

No, if the Bible would disagree. If that oh, you're the objective authority.

The Bible the Bible teaches that.

The Bible holds that God knows the definite future. I would say some verses in the Bible indicate that.

Let me pause here and just I hope you guys heard that.

This.

Dustin gentlemen said there is no objective Authority. Hmm, and that was in response to Aaron saying the Bible is the objective authority.

So that that's my question too, so Aaron is assuming that this guy is going to represent normal Mormon beliefs at first.

Great question. So let me let me be up front and tell us a couple of these things. So this was this is a two hour long video that Aaron doesn't. Let me also say Aaron does a fantastic job in this video and Even in areas where we would say well.

Maybe we could have said this it I would be doing the same thing if I was watching one of my evangelism videos. I'd be like man. I wish I would have done this instead of this, right? And so I know I know that Aaron is getting a lot of slack.

Regarding people saying well, why are you casting pearls before swine? This guy doesn't want to hear the gospel. Why did you waste two hours of your time on him? Listen? We all get led in different ways when we're doing evangelism to try to talk to people in different ways.

And sometimes we immediately shut down conversation. Sometimes we keep on having those conversations and one of the fruits of this conversation. Listen to me. One of the fruits of this conversation is the fact that everyone now can watch what more modern apologetics looks like.

Right, you all take notes and we can all Put these things in our tool belt to be able to evangelize to LDS people. But one thing I would say that I do think here going forward you see.

That.

Dustin is having the presupposition that there is no objective reality. There's no objective truth. So therefore everything he argues for is a hundred percent subjective. Aaron is trying his best to point himself point Dustin to the Word of God that shows objective truths within it.

The the Bible tells us that the natural man will not accept the things of God that we are enemies of God. Haters of God all those Bible verses that tell us a presupposition that we have as believers towards unbelievers, right?

When I was LDS for those 19 years, I would have thought that I could understand the things of God are and it was revealed to me personally and and Through feelings and burnings in the bosoms and all these kind of things, right?

However, it wasn't until God opened my eyes and did something to me that his objective truth was made so bright and clear I could no longer rejected his objective truth. And so Dustin in this video the LDS individual.

He's not gonna accept these things and he even admits it in the video Unless the Lord is kind to him and opens his eyes and changes his heart, which is the prayer.

So we would say the natural man receives not the things of the spirit because these spirits are great, that's right. It's foolishness sent him up this entire conversation. So the things that he's trying to communicate to him are right over his head.

He's trying absolutely. Yeah.

Absolutely. Listen, the this is something I noticed with it, which I Tom I sent you the voice messages of this as we as we decide and listen to it and For accountability and whatnot that. Zachary right gentlemen I want to get your opinion on on what you thought of what he was saying as somebody who wasn't never broke as LDS.

What did you think of him? And what did you think of my interaction with him?

So he was trying to put yourself he well number one. He was just trying to twist everything every single thing that you brought up to him. He went to something else as soon as he knew he was wrong. He would go into well, what about this?

He would never address any of the issues that you brought up. Because he knew he was trapped. So I mean it was it was almost like he was trying to spin Everything that you said to him and going going on to another issue.

In other words, he would spin ten different Opinions. Saying everything was subjective. And that none of the thing that you you were saying were so he was just trying to spin the conversation constantly.

Yeah, yeah, so he wasn't interested in knowing the truth. He was. He was putting himself on the same level ground as you were. Yet he had no standard by which to stand on and you were telling him the standard is the scriptures the standard Or the 66 by you know books of the Bible.

This is what it says. But he would he wouldn't accept any of it. He wouldn't accept any of the truth. He was just argumentative.

Absolutely, yeah. And I think so what we see in those those voice messages from Zachary is the exact same type of Argumentation that this Dustin gentleman is doing in here, right? He he's he's coming at it with a an attitude of arrogance and pride and he this guy he actually admits it.

He says I am arrogant at one point. That's video. He says I am arrogant. Something that you know. Something that I would just say to Michelle too. So she just brought up something about Isaiah with God's Word doesn't return void.

Amen to that. Yeah, we're dealing with men. Listen, let me let me show you this real fast. I'll put this up on the screen and I can bring back this here in a second. But let me Share screen on this. This is I don't know if we'll be able to see this or not.

Oh, yeah. We will so this is just one of the messages that was sent by this gentleman to myself. He says in here so he brings up Isaiah, so that's the reason I'm wanting to bring this up, Michelle. Your comments about Isaiah actually verify my point about you ultimately holding to a subjective standard.

We can't objectively prove that Isaiah wrote all of Isaiah. Because we can't find any manuscripts to that that date that far back. That would be Objective and we just don't have the evidence to back that up.

Have that so you are imposing your subjective opinions into the text to arrive at your conclusion. However, one thing that I bring out to him Is how does Jesus? Treat the words of isaiah. He quotes them and he treats them as historical facts.

And isaiah is prophesying about a thing in the future that according to isaiah chapter 44 to 46. He says I I will tell you these things before they happen so that you may know that I am god and there's none other.

That there's none before nor after me. So god himself speaks. I tell you future events to let you know that I am God and that this was true that I prepared this beforehand so that you would know that i'm the only god and what Zachary is doing and what dustin is doing in these videos is is no better Than the atheist that's trying to take the modern textual criticism approach of trying to disprove every book of the bible.

So that then you don't have any objective reality you have no objective truth.

And so yeah, so georgia georgia just asked the question. Do you think pull it up? Okay. Yeah, do you think that these cults are uh, let me read that again online. Do you think that all of these are just false teachings that are cultivating a secular belief in their religion?

And in my opinion, they're they're basically trying to. To the conjure up a god of their own understanding that's going to suit them whatever god that they want to to follow or That that's the that's going to be the one that they're going to.

That they're going to follow the a god that they've made up in their own mind.

Amen.

That is for sure, right. And that's what we expect from people who are dead in their sins. Absolutely. That follow after the Imaginations of their mind right. That's one that's our layer.

One's not that that's not going to punish me according to my sin that you know, I never forgive myself. I'm accepted by everything. Uh, just a god that's going to suit us and that's what all idolatry is.

We're our own god.

And so the question I kept on trying to hound to zachary which this gentleman I know. I haven't shown you everything and a lot of it was through voice messages. But one thing that he never did was answer my question of how do you believe?

Why do you believe in what you believe in?

And.