Three Mormon rejects

Open Air Theology iconOpen Air Theology

6 views

Join us as we discuss the false doctrine of Mormonism

0 comments

00:38
You can say what you want, but you won't around me They're all jamming out and I have zero
01:11
Bits I have no music a misfit in the trailer park at night a misprint with the six
01:18
It's sick ever since my brother died of a no -dee My two cents never made sense either to me or anyone else's side of the
01:26
My ninth Smith on my right side Why you staring at your cock died son and my
01:32
John Hancock on the dotted line Tell me what's the bottom line the bottom line is
01:37
I'm not right. I'm not left, but the cellophane won't fight There's nothing left, but the spotlight
01:44
You can find me in the moonlight You can say what you want You can say what you want, but you won't around me
01:56
What What's in the deep end and I can't find my assigned seat to sit in My theology don't fit in black sheep of the
02:07
Reformation sheep in I'm just another Baptist baptized again the bastard child of Anabaptist hosted child of Reformation Society Give me a
02:22
Bible in the book ship of dead man cigars bourbons and beer cans bow ties tattoos and bearded men making
02:30
Reformation All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to open -air theology
02:54
This is a show that me and my homeboys get together and do my name is Jeff.
03:00
I'm one of the co -hosts I'm also one of the elders at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tallahoma, Tennessee If you're ever in this area, we would love to have you to worship the one true
03:11
God with us Also, if you like the the intro music to this show
03:19
Well me and my co -elder Read my co -elder. He remastered it not me
03:25
I ain't doing any of that stuff, but he remastered it and a lot of people have been asking, you know
03:33
They would like to be able to have it whenever they want to so we're The single drops the single drops.
03:41
I believe on the 22nd Yeah, so Sorry, I'm gonna pass it over to Brayden stumble that I Am pastor
03:54
Brayden Patterson of well, so I got so much things to talk about now
04:02
So I am the pastor of Valley Baptist Church in southern, Idaho we meet on Sundays at 11 a .m.
04:10
The morning on the Lord's Day if you live in that area, I'd love to see you However on that note as well
04:16
I have been called to pastor a church in Southern, California Grace Bible Church.
04:21
It's going to be full -time ministry It's a confessional 1689 church really looking forward to that and so Kid so Cal as I've heard they'd like to call it
04:36
They meet on Sundays at 1030 a .m. Please if you live in that area a great blessing if you were to go to that church check it out even before my family and I get there and Love to see you in December when we do finally move.
04:54
So also, I Have reformed ex -mormon as YouTube channel go check that out and we have a conference coming up in February So go look up open air theology calm
05:10
Open air theology conference dot o RG go to Jeff's Facebook click on Get yourself a ticket
05:24
RG On that note after I've done talking for five minutes. I'll pass the mic down to we're not doing so well tonight
05:30
No, we're not doing well at all. As a matter of fact, so if I'm gonna be I'm gonna be looking in the camera
05:36
I know I'm looking at you now, but I don't see these yahoos over here Oh, you know Well, no,
05:41
I see if I do this, but now I'm not looking through the camera because I'm on my iPad So I'm I'm gonna do that.
05:47
I like it better. I mean, I know it's it's it's it's a rough day But it was a good day, but a rough day.
05:54
I'm having technical diff. So I'm on my iPad my cameras not working on my on my computer and Just so I could keep on whining a little bit more.
06:04
I didn't even get to hear the new song I didn't even hear this I haven't been able to upload it yet, and I'm not gonna upload it to the open.
06:13
It's the ology until it drops Okay, well, I still couldn't hear it and you guys are dancing and it's just not the same.
06:19
I just I You know because you know, the song is something that really gets us going the song, you know
06:27
Draw, you know Jeff rap everybody's going and I got nothing so I'm not motivated at all do this and now we're talking about Mormonism I do have however a
06:38
Lost city Opus X cigar that I plan on smoking to the glory of God after the show
06:45
Let's introduce myself. My name is Tom Shepherd and I'm a member of Grace Bible Church of Bernie and I I am the co -host of open air theology.
06:57
I do a YouTube show even if none all about evangelism But today we're gonna we're gonna be talking about somewhat about evangelism today, aren't we?
07:07
But I was with some Mormons Yeah. Yeah, so I mean
07:12
I'm excited to be here. I think you're It might have been It's just not fair that's just not fair So so we are the three
07:28
Mormon rejects and Because we have facial hair could you imagine
07:36
We got to talk about that real quick. Number one. We had a great graphic for the show that Brayden Patterson Had ready to go and it was all of us.
07:47
No, it was looking good And then he made this fake one where everybody had beards including
07:52
Brayden We're there and Jeff wasn't supplied. I don't even have the right
07:58
You have a different nose So anyway
08:04
Jeff On by the way, I can't even see comments on this either. So I can't that's sovereignty
08:12
That's that's sovereignty, right? That was a horrible graphic That was one of the worst graphics that we've ever done on the show.
08:19
We're getting let me let me do this here real fast Oh, I'll show it just in case somebody doesn't have it because I thought it was pretty funny
08:26
And it was it was just fault. Oh, you know, it was without a doubt not none of Braden's none of that Sean I got nothing
08:48
This is the first one that popped up so that's what I use I was like well, you know
08:56
My wife would divorce me if I looked like that Look at no that still
09:09
Mormon with a beard Dude your beard and then no wait to your chin
09:21
Was with the nose It was an
09:26
AI thing It was pretty Well, what are we talking about tonight besides Mormons dim boys dim Mormons They're being called
09:46
Mormons. So the melody is Yeah They really don't but not necessarily
09:53
Mormons we're talking about Martin Martin I can't say the word Martin modern
10:00
Mod earn And there's a few words from Pastor Jeff I There's a lot of words that this just straight lingo kid
10:22
Is on the right a booklet man, it was like well, let's think of a title Hey, he says the title and I can't even say
10:36
The architecture of the New Covenant We are talking about modern -day
10:43
LDS is actually so actually later later day better letter letter day
10:49
Saints later Latest it's the latest These guys just can't get it right can they just keep on going ladder and ladder?
11:04
I don't see how we audience Or guys Yeah, please subscribe and share this video around let me just say
11:14
It's going to get better, okay, I swear here on out it's better now
11:21
So there are This this conversation really came up after several weeks ago
11:27
We talked about doing a show on this and then it was well We should do a show on this and that got precedence and then we're like, well
11:33
Next week and then there was something else that popped up and so every Mormonism kept on getting put on the back burner and then in that meantime
11:42
I had the opportunity to talk with a LDS individual named Zachary, right?
11:49
He's a LDS apologist guy and he was bringing up things that he believes as an
11:54
LDS member That when I was LDS, I would never say And so it really opened my eyes about The lat latest day
12:06
Saints are evolving and they're muddying up the water even more in the process
12:12
So would you say that they don't even just they don't even agree with the the the church leaders of the latter -day
12:18
Saints right now That's absolutely Absolutely, not. Yep Evangelize them
12:25
Absolutely it you have a harder time putting a pin on what exactly they believe
12:30
Because it's going to change even in the middle of the conversation just so you can't actually nail them down on on an actual engaging conversation and so I mean
12:46
There's so many things. So I'm gonna share a screen real fast with you I think this is kind of funny because this happened right as the show was starting
12:52
I was I wanted to pull this up just to show people this But let's do this
12:57
BAM BAM So We talked about different AI programs, right?
13:06
pastors stealing chat GPT sermons and Well, did you know that there is a website called
13:11
LDS bot and it's an AI apologist LDS Wow.
13:19
No, sweet website. So I said, what is this jank to it? Responded and then
13:25
I called it a heretic and it didn't respond. So Yeah Yeah, so just I mean you can see the type of ways that they're they're going about now being able to argue with Christians and so if I have an
13:41
LDS person that is really wanting to have a Thorough conversation with the Christian they utilize this And it's a
13:48
Christian that's really unknowing You're gonna be Thrown with a plethora of things that you don't know how to maybe handle right off the top of your head
13:55
So I hope that tonight we can give you some really valuable insights that hopefully will help you engage not only
14:00
Mormons but Jehovah Witnesses and every other cult in between so Yeah, and eventually we're gonna have
14:08
Jake D on here. Mr. Derringer and We're gonna interview him on Jehovah Witnesses being that he is an ex
14:17
Jehovah Witness Right, and he can probably give us some practical tips on how to have those conversations
14:26
And whenever they come knocking at your door or when you see them standing in an airport by a tall box with information just with their arms crossed so I did want to also start with showing this real fast.
14:40
So this comes right from So there's several places. I want to go with this like this conversation a night, but this comes right from Orgs website
14:52
So when you talk to an LDS person and you bring up things that they are unfamiliar with Or at least when
14:59
I was LDS This was the case if somebody had brought up something to me that I was it sounded not right
15:07
It sounded anti is how I would describe it. It sounded like you're trying to undermine my belief
15:12
I would just say well that that's anti Mormon and that doesn't come right from the
15:18
LDS website And so this is the LDS website on this topic right here
15:23
This is the 13 articles of faith that they have and these are just short Statements that the church holds to and in Statement of Faith 8
15:30
It says we believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly
15:36
We also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God And so when you compare that statement right there
15:45
To what Joseph Smith claimed when he was 14 or a story he claims when he's much older than 14 years old
15:53
But one that he says he experienced when he was 14 was that Christ appeared to him the father and Christ appeared to him
16:00
What's right? There are apologists red alarm should be going off because has anyone seen the father Jeff or Tom?
16:05
No, no, but Joseph Smith says he didn't and he says that Jesus told
16:11
Jesus you've seen the father Well, this is true, but they he's saying two different two different personages, right
16:18
Different gods correct two different beings. Yep According to Mormonism.
16:24
Yeah, we'll we'll get into that too here in a moment as well, but Jesus tells
16:29
Joseph supposedly that all their creeds Were an abomination in his sight all the
16:36
Protestant Believers all the Christians in Joseph Smith's day in the 1800s all their creeds were an abomination in sight
16:42
That they drew near with their lips, but their hearts were far from him. And so part of the the creeds is chapter 1 paragraph 1 of the 1689 which is a confession that all three of us hold to And it says that the
16:57
Word of God the Bible the scriptures the 66 books are the only infallible inspired sufficient rule of all knowledge and saving faith and so the
17:09
Christian saying the Bible alone Is the sufficient revelation of God and the
17:15
Book of Mormon is saying no. I don't know. There's more and By putting in this word as far as it is translated correctly.
17:23
They're putting a caveat under every contentious or contradictory claim from the book from the
17:30
Bible Approves Mormonism wrong. They can just say it wasn't translated correctly.
17:36
Gotcha So kind of a win -win for them. Yep. Yep It's a it's a moving of the goalposts to make it so that somebody can never score on you
17:46
So I like even you bring up Ephesians 2 8 & 9. Well, that was that was translated incorrectly
17:51
Gotcha, you bring up Romans chapter 3. Well, that was translated. Well, what if you break out the
17:58
Greek? Like if you were to just read to them the Greek. Yeah, they're there
18:04
They're not going to like it because of ultimately they think that it's been corrupted in some degree
18:09
The manuscripts the Yep and also
18:16
Even in this talk go ahead, but will they pay, you know, like if you point out how the
18:21
Book of Mormon has been changed over the years
18:27
When you are talking to your average when I say average I mean the LDS person that doesn't do a lot of doesn't have
18:35
LDS bought right doesn't doesn't Isn't actively engaging with Christians that kind of LDS person isn't know any of this but And they think that there hasn't been any changes to the
18:48
Book of Mormon but modern LDS apologists now are going way further changing changing definitions that I would have never held to so something that that Zachary Wright guy that's he said that I would have never believed in when
19:02
I was LDS Was that each one of us you Tom and Jeff? Myself we are all as eternal as God is
19:11
That there's never been truly anything created that we've just been reshaped Which which also would include us being former sinners, but now achieving
19:23
Godhead Yes So basically that claim would make
19:29
God the father that we believe in he would say that that Person was actually a former sinner.
19:36
Yep So when I was going to a Mormon church Just you know for people that don't know
19:43
I for about two or three months I was attending a Mormon Church just to find out what they believe
19:49
What I was told is that we were spiritual offsprings of heavenly father
19:55
That's how they would you know that that's the lingo so in heaven The father had sex
20:03
Can we use that language here? With heavenly mother and had spiritual offsprings.
20:10
So that right there eliminates us being internal Right if we were in any fact created so so so even in their own theology
20:20
It seems to go against what? Mormons have taught and and so this is something that I was taught in 2004
20:29
By this Yeah, it is that that saying right there is completely different than anything
20:36
I'd ever heard growing up as LDS I always had heard that we were spiritual offspring of a heavenly father and a heavenly mother and Then that was our pre -existence and then we came to earth to get our bodies so that then one day we could be like God the father or heavenly father
20:52
But now it's now it's removing that and saying well Science says nothing has come into existence and nothing can truly be destroyed.
21:00
It's just that things change their their form Well, that's exactly how God Or our
21:07
God works is that we're all ontologically listen to this. We're all ontologically the same
21:14
Just just different different stages of that sameness now would with the
21:20
Mormon missionaries That that used to be the ones that are in the tie what knocking on doors would they do that too or is this
21:28
Yeah, I'm totally different. So something that we're gonna watch here in a moment is a Great brother in Christ.
21:34
His name is Aaron and I'm gonna butcher his last name. It's Aaron shove of loft
21:42
Terrible I think that was actually listen I was practicing before we got on I think that was the closest time
21:47
I've gotten to it It's terribly. It's all I've used out of Pentecostal church He has brought to my attention
21:58
I didn't know this was a thing so one of the ways that why Mormonism is being changed so much is that you have these rogue people that are doing their best to be apologists for the church and so they're changing all these different views on things and trying to arm people with with Answers that the church never officially take so then they have always a cop -out because they say well this hasn't been officially said
22:17
This is just what I it's terrible stuff. And so the the group that it's called. It's called the
22:22
Calvary it's Not Calvary is in the mountain of Calvary Christ crucified by getting on your horses and riding a
22:30
Calvary in the war the Calvary on Facebook and it's this missionary group that is
22:36
I Would argue peddling this new modern more and more
22:41
Latest day Saints mudding the water stuff and it's it's scary stuff.
22:47
What's now? What what do the true Mormons think of these guys real quick? I I think that I Would imagine as time goes on though There'll probably be a more of official statement from the
23:00
LDS Officials that just double down and say well if it doesn't come from us, then it's not the church's authority
23:07
Or or those that are in the main church would get a Prophet that would side with them just to keep that because because they hope to what the living prophets say not necessarily
23:19
What dead prophets have said that's right And so is that something that Aaron in this video discuss on is that in the 1950s to the 1970s?
23:27
We had LDS prophets standing up and teaching XY or Z things behind their pulpit on general conference that now modern prophets are completely contradicting and having several teachings that are going against these things which which one's true and this gentleman his name's it's
23:46
Dustin Dixon Dustin Dixon who's this LDS? I would argue in practice an apologist here
23:53
Who's a part of this Calvary group who's a part of Zachary Wright and Travis Anderson? I think is another name that's in there
24:00
He's He's essentially says well both can be true, but they're contradictory statements and he just doesn't want to acknowledge it
24:09
So watch the clip here I have a clip so I have I have several clips here I will say that this first one that we show
24:17
Does have a curse word in it at the very real quick. Can I ask this much? Michelle a question
24:23
Michelle. What is GTS why She says hey, oh, hey
24:31
GTS. Why sister? It's good. It's good to see you Jeff. Oh Jeff you just lol
24:49
I'm just not with it, right? I mean, I'm I'm 44 years old.
24:54
Okay. I'm not a young buck no more I get up in the middle of the night to pee five times and hurt myself twice
25:10
Sorry, listen, this is a different kind of show. Okay, this is a different show. Yeah Answer Bruce.
25:17
He asked do we only do vid videos? We would do a podcast Ugly faces and what fun would that be?
25:25
Yeah We will one day hopefully yeah Before I play this video
25:32
I do want to just show and the only reason I show this is not as this is a form of showing authority, but this was
25:39
This was my quad when I was LDS and I hope explain to them what a quad is It's the
25:44
Book of Mormon the Bible the Doctrine and Covenants and the pearl of great price all bound together in one one go with it, but I just want to let you know that I Was very much an
25:54
LDS member and so I'm speaking from experience and a What used to be a testimony on these things and I'm telling you when
26:02
I was growing up This is a completely different form of Mormonism now and it's dangerous. And so I hope that this is a blessing to everybody that watches
26:11
So but on that note, we're gonna watch just the first two minutes here of this does have a curse word in it
26:16
So if you don't want to hear the s -word said Skip for a couple minutes, but here it is.
26:21
I'm just tough enough. Yeah, just tough enough. We're It's almost like Johnny Cash flipping somebody off.
26:29
Yeah, that's You work some good or worse of evil.
26:39
Yeah, but we would define that as a moral public Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah not having a premortal life oppose a big problem
26:48
Well, if if I was created from nothing right and in God's infinite foreknowledge
26:55
Already knew what what place you're gonna put me in or what decisions I've made That's a pretty standard latter -day saint view though, no, it's not actually most latter -day saints we talked to believe in divine
27:10
Shit we're those latter -day saints have a say but thank you Doesn't matter to me most of your leaders though have taught that God knows the definite future when they've spoken on the issue
27:23
But you know the story of Osler and Maxwell you told me We're Blake Osler Corrects Neal I Maxwell on timelessness and he agrees with them on this point
27:34
I don't I don't know how that what the outcome was, but okay, but the changes but the dominant Position of historic latter -day saint theology is that God knows the definite future.
27:44
Okay, that's the dominant position for just traditional Christianity in general I would expect those Protestant presuppositions to be within Christian dominant general.
27:52
I don't I don't people haven't really give it much thought letters dialogue But your leaders have taught that God knows the definite future.
28:01
I think that the Bible teaches that I'm I'm That who's posing a problem. That's why
28:06
I brought it up Yeah with agency and it also would contradict to a lot of the prophecies in the
28:12
Bible I don't think your leaders think that's true. Okay, I was just appealing to your authority, right?
28:19
my authority No, no No, if the Bible would disagree if that oh, you're the objective authority
28:28
The Bible the Bible teaches that the Bible holds that God knows the definite future I would say some verses in the
28:34
Bible indicate that Let me pause here and just I hope you guys heard that this
28:41
Dustin gentlemen said there is no objective Authority.
28:47
Hmm, and that was in response to Aaron saying the Bible is the objective authority
28:55
So that that's my question too. So Aaron is assuming that this guy is going to represent normal Mormon beliefs at first Great question.
29:06
So let me let me be up front and tell us a couple of these things So this was this is a two -hour long video that Aaron doesn't let me also say
29:14
Aaron does a fantastic job in this video and Even in areas where we would say well
29:20
Maybe we could have said this I would be doing the same thing if I was watching one of my evangelism videos I'd be like man I wish
29:25
I would have done this instead of this right and so I know I know that Aaron is getting a lot of slack
29:31
Regarding people saying well, why are you casting pearls before swine? This guy doesn't want to hear the gospel.
29:37
Why did you waste two hours of your time on him? Listen? We all get led in different ways when we're doing evangelism to try to talk to people in different ways
29:47
And sometimes we immediately shut down conversations Sometimes we keep on having those conversations and one of the fruits of this conversation
29:52
Listen to me One of the fruits of this conversation is the fact that everyone now can watch what more modern apologetics looks like We can all take notes and we can all
30:03
Put these things in our tool belt to be able to evangelize to LDS people But one thing
30:08
I would say that I do think here going forward you see that Dustin is having the presupposition that there is no objective reality.
30:19
There's no objective truth So therefore everything he argues for is a hundred percent subjective
30:27
Aaron is trying his best to point himself point Dustin to the Word of God that shows objective truths within it
30:36
The the Bible tells us that the natural man will not accept the things of God that we are enemies of God We're haters of God all those
30:43
Bible verses that tell us a presupposition that we have as believers towards unbelievers, right?
30:50
When I was LDS for those 19 years I would have thought that I could understand the things of God are and I was revealed to me personally and Through feelings and burnings in the bosoms and all these kind of things, right?
31:07
However, it wasn't until God opened my eyes and did something to me that his objective truth was made so bright and clear
31:14
I could no longer rejected his objective truth. And so Dustin in this video the
31:19
LDS individual He's not gonna accept these things and he even admits it in the video
31:26
Unless the Lord is kind to him and opens his eyes and changes his heart, which is the prayer So we would say the natural man receives not the things of the spirit because he's spiritually discerned, right?
31:38
That's right. It's foolishness sent him up this entire conversation So the things that he's trying to communicate to him are right over his head.
31:46
He's trying absolutely. Yeah Absolutely, listen the this is something I noticed with it, which
31:52
I Tom I sent you the voice messages of this as we as we sat and listened to it and For accountability and whatnot that Zachary, right gentlemen
32:02
I want to get your opinion on on what you thought of what he was saying as somebody who wasn't never broke as LDS What did you think of him?
32:10
And what did you think of my interaction with him? So he was trying to put yourself he well number one
32:16
He was just trying to twist everything every single thing that you brought up to him He went to something else as soon as he knew he was wrong.
32:23
He would go into well, what about this? He would never address any of the issues that you brought up Because he knew he was trapped.
32:31
So I mean it was it was almost like he was trying to spin Everything that you said to him and going on going on to another issue.
32:39
In other words, he would spin ten different Opinions Saying everything was subjective
32:48
And that none of the thing that you you were saying were it so he was just trying to spin the conversation constantly
32:53
Yep. Yeah, so he wasn't interested in knowing the truth. He was
32:59
He was putting himself on the same level ground as you were Yet he had no standard by which to stand on and you were telling him the standard is the scriptures the standard
33:10
Or the 66 by you know books of the Bible. This is what it says But he would he wouldn't accept any of it.
33:17
He wouldn't accept any of the truth. He was just argumentative Absolutely. Yeah, I would
33:23
And I think so what we see in those those voice messages from Zachary is the exact same type of Argumentation that this
33:31
Dustin gentleman is doing in here, right? He he's he's coming at it with a an attitude of arrogance and pride and he this guy he actually admits it
33:39
He says I am arrogant at one point this video. He says I am arrogant Something that you know
33:49
Something that I would just say to Michelle too. So she just brought up something about Isaiah with God's Word doesn't return void
33:55
Amen to that. Yeah, we're dealing with men. Listen, let me let me show you this real fast I'll put this up on the screen and I can bring back this here in a second, but let me
34:04
Share screen on this This is
34:10
I don't know if we'll be able to see this or not. Oh, yeah We will so this is just one of the messages that was sent by this gentleman to myself
34:23
He says in here so he brings up Isaiah, so that's the reason
34:33
I'm wanting to bring this up Michelle Your comments about Isaiah actually verify my point about you ultimately holding to a subjective standard
34:40
We can't objectively prove that Isaiah wrote all of Isaiah Because we can't find any manuscripts to that that date that far back.
34:49
That would be Objective and We just don't have that so you are imposing your subjective opinions into the text to arrive at your conclusion
34:58
However, one thing that I bring out to him is how does Jesus treat the words of?
35:06
Isaiah He goes and he treats them as historical facts and Isaiah is prophesying about a thing in the future that according to Isaiah chapter 44 to 46
35:16
He says I I will tell you these things before they happen so that you may know that I am God And there's none other that there's none before nor after me
35:24
So God himself speaks. I tell you future events to let you know that I am
35:31
God and that this was true that I prepared this beforehand so that you would know that I'm the only
35:36
God and what? Zachary is doing and what Dustin is doing in these videos is is no better than the atheist
35:44
That's trying to take the modern textual criticism approach of trying to disprove every book of the
35:50
Bible So that then you don't have any objective reality. You have no objective truth And so yeah, so Georgia Georgia just asked the question.
35:59
Do you think pull it up? Okay? Yeah, do you think that these cults are? Read that again on mine
36:05
Do you think that all of these are just false teachings that are cultivating a secular beliefs in their religion and in my opinion?
36:13
They're basically trying to To the conjure up a God of their own understanding that's going to suit them
36:19
Whatever God that they want to to follow That that's the that's gonna be the one that they're gonna know that they're gonna follow the
36:28
God that they've made up in their own mind Amen That is for sure, right and that's what we expect from people who are dead in their sins
36:38
Absolutely that follow after the imaginations of their mind, right? One that's our layer one's not that that's not gonna punish me according to my sin that you know,
36:48
I never forgive myself I'm accepted by everything Just a God that's going to suit us and that's what all idolatry is
36:55
Yeah, our own God and so the question I kept on trying to hound is accurate which this gentleman
37:00
I know I haven't shown you everything and a lot of it was through voice messages But one thing that he never did was answer my question of how do you believe?
37:08
why do you believe in what you believe in and and He didn't want to answer it because I would assume and this is this would be reason why
37:17
I wouldn't want to answer it as an LDS individual previous LDS Was because you have to admit
37:23
I got a good feeling about it. Hmm It's it's based on my opinion rather than something other than my opinion and and you
37:35
Listen let me let me ask you guys this Jeff if if let's say I Was wanting to argue with you debate you on whatever topic it was, but I didn't believe in the laws of logic
37:46
I said I was a purple cow and you can't convince me any other reason and all the other cows in this world
37:54
Are really chickens and all chickens are really just fire engines How are you gonna debate me on anything?
38:03
Okay, you can't you don't have an objective reality to hold to someone to that's the importance of knowing the laws of logic and understanding presuppositional apologetics in some in some basic understanding, right?
38:17
I've had a conversation with one they spoke about the testimony and the burning in the bosom and I just say yeah, man
38:23
I've had gas before too That's right,
38:29
I love it. Yeah And that's and that's really that's really the issue is is that We are going with the presupposition that God God's Word is final authority here.
38:41
There's absolute authority in God's Word and that we must submit to that that word if John Stott said we cannot agree on anything unless we first agree how to agree
38:53
So what's the standard of our belief? And so what do we do Braden when a guy just keeps on going out spinning and spinning and spinning
39:02
My opinion is that we go right back to the heart issue. What is What's the gospel?
39:08
That's right. Yeah, that's right. I I think every conversation listen and this goes for old
39:15
What my experience of LDS individuals were and even what LDS people of today are modern
39:20
LDS people the latest day Saints And that is you need to tell them about Jesus you
39:26
You can try to bring up different Joseph Smith history bring him young history. Look. I got a quote right here
39:32
That's real easy to show craziness of Joseph Smith He he says in here.
39:38
I was reading it to Jeff earlier Can't fall it says Yeah, so it's it's in the journal discourses.
39:45
It's in volume six This is produced by the LDS Church, which they reject now as doctrine That's you can find that on their
39:51
LDS website, but this was preached by Joseph Smith he says this It is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so For I'm going to tell you how
40:06
God came to be God We haven't imagined and suppose that God was God from all eternity
40:11
I will refute that idea and will take away and deuce away with the veil so that you may see
40:18
Okay He says in the following page Here then is eternal life to know the only wise and true
40:26
God and how you have got to learn how to be gods Yourselves and to be kings and priests to God the same as all gods have done before you that That's the founding of Mormonism is wanting to become your own
40:45
God Yeah, and listen That's the reason why
40:50
Joseph Smith talks about not wanting to believe in the confessions because the confessions are very clear about this that there's only one
40:56
God from all eternity to eternity because God's Word that is inspired infallible inerrant and Sufficient tells us that there's only one
41:06
God from all eternity to eternity. That's right I Do I you know one of the questions that that was asked that you put up on the screen just a little bit ago
41:17
Yes, they are they are starting to use secular reasoning to influence their beliefs Big time big time.
41:26
So I do have I do have another minute marker here If you want to put this one up on the screen Jeff Check this out guys
41:37
And why should we assume that being God thus means that it they can't sin. I don't
41:43
The Bible doesn't speak the same way about David as it does about God No, it's there's only it only says
41:51
It only says of God holy holy holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and is this to come
41:56
No one's described that way other than God So when the Bible talks when there's a psalm that was read to the
42:03
Davidic Kings calling them Elohim, right? What are you thinking of? Which some are you thinking of Choosing where you wanted me
42:18
Just as a courtesy, we are Yeah, some 45 67 when to read it
42:39
My throne Oh God, it's forever and ever that scepter of thy kingdom is the right is a right scepter
42:45
Now love us righteousness and hate us with wickedness Therefore God thy God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows
42:53
This was specifically the psalm written to the Davidic teams Okay, all them Okay And so when the author
42:58
Hebrews uses it in reference to Jesus Christ and God the Father that is exactly what you were just asking me or about when is
43:07
The Davidic King you ever equated the same way as God is equated right here in Psalms and right here in Hebrews So in the history in the
43:15
Christian tradition Reading that hold up. I Would I would recommend not following the rhetorical patterns of Travis Anderson here?
43:23
I don't know what you're talking about You learn this in Travis Anderson Well, maybe the community that you're in has a has a style of rhetorical aggression that doesn't allow for complete thoughts
43:32
I actually think you're I feel the same way about probably all of traditional Christian theology
43:38
I don't I don't necessarily subjective claim I don't know your opinion is talking about the mode of speech and interfaith dialogue
43:43
I think we should there's a there's a little bit of a threshold of interaction of interruption Where there's a kind of like excited back and forth, but we should allow each other to finish most thoughts
43:54
Unless I'm going on and on and on but that in the Christian tradition when we read such passages The idea is that David is a type of Christ to come that there are certain things said of David that are more true of Christ and there are of David that there are exemplified in Christ in the way that they're not exemplified in David that they be coming
44:12
So, you know, there's scriptures that talk about David the same way to talk about Christ Moses Abraham Because you just said originally said the opposite know that the things that are true of these
44:28
Typological figures are Pointing to something that's crystallized on the person of Jesus that is even more true of Jesus than it is of these sinful
44:43
So I What what's the guy's name? Who's doing the the
44:48
Christian guy? The Christian guy is his name is Aaron. So Aaron so Aaron number one.
44:54
I think he's doing a great job He's absolutely, you know talking about what the truth is that there are typological featured
45:02
Figures in the scriptures that is pointing to Christ the issue of that Not that he's and I don't mean to be dogging him at all.
45:11
I'm not I don't he's speaking truth But this is something that that that even
45:17
Christians have a hard time understanding That this guy's just like I wouldn't even go there
45:25
I Mean, I there's just no way he's gonna be able to understand You know what what the
45:31
Bible is pointing to But I but I do know to be fair in minute 20 when you get there
45:37
He starts talking about who God is and then the other guys trying to make his argument
45:44
Why God was in the center in the past and so he eventually gets there
45:49
But in case anybody's looking at this saying why is he even discussing this about it? Does get there you want to bring that up?
45:56
Yeah, let's hear Think maybe my point was there's certain superlative extreme
46:10
Categorically unique statements about God that are not made of David are not made of any other figure So for example, holy holy holy is the
46:17
Lord God Almighty who was and is and is to come there's no other figure in the Bible Spoken of like that.
46:23
Nope. Nobody even comes close or even possibly close to that And so back to what we're originally talking about you're saying that those verses teach that to be a
46:31
Christian It's required that you believe that God was not Well, I'm making the observation. There has never been a
46:37
Christian that has believed God may be sent As it as it or your criteria of Christian sure
46:44
The historic Christian position. Okay, that's unanimous for the criteria of the Bible Like what is the what is the criteria to be a
46:51
Christian for the Bible to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? Substantially and not merely superficially. Okay. So what does that mean?
46:57
Substantially not superficially to repent and not be an idolatry but to look to God as In the past thought that God was a sinner.
47:05
Is that not what they're because you could they not fit under that criteria They that would be idolatry would not be the same God Then so that I asked you where the
47:12
Bible that that doctrine is contained right Revelation 4 8 so it says like it doesn't say that God was never a sinner.
47:20
It says that he was holy, right? Holy, holy. Holy is the Lord. God Almighty To be holy in Leviticus, right?
47:26
So we're even supposed to be that way. Can you see though the difference? Holy, holy. Holy is the
47:32
Lord God Almighty who was and is and is to come that's not true of you Right so Correct me if I'm on brain
47:43
He's the other dude is trying to make the argument that God was Formally a sinner and the reason why he's doing that is because of the
47:50
Mormon beliefs that they believe Then as a sinner at one point by grace somehow they were saved and they could achieve
47:58
God it God was once a man. And so it was once a man that would
48:05
Include him being a sinner, right? Listen, this comes from the words of Brigham Young again
48:10
This is sometimes accepted and sometimes not depending on the group of LDS that you're talking to because again
48:16
It's all based off of subjective how I want to feel about the opinion at the time But in the journal discourses again, this is
48:22
Brigham Young during a message. He says They appear to be bounded in their capacity for acquiring knowledge his brother
48:28
Orson Pratt has a theory bounded Has in theory bounded the capacity of God so he's referring to another person who's
48:36
LDS Who is not teaching what he's gonna say right here so right there that should throw some what like how does that work if both are
48:44
Inspired of God, but still we'll keep on going. It says this according to his theory God can progress no further in knowledge and power but the
48:54
God that I serve is Progressing eternally and so are all his children.
49:00
They will increase to all eternity if they are faithful So right listen
49:06
They believe that the father depending again on the LDS person if you but if they are just this
49:11
LDS saying that that we're all Eternal ontologically beings that we've never come into existence, but we've always listened
49:17
That's just weird to think about right that statement of God I am that I am if we're wanting to say we're of ontologically the same makeup
49:25
Can any of us say I am that I am? absolutely not and so Brigham Young is arguing and what this gentleman is arguing for is that that the father was able to increase and he's still increasing today
49:42
Which is completely different than the immutability doctrine of yeah, what do you do if I am the same yesterday today and tomorrow?
49:49
What do you I mean? What do you what do they do with those verses? They would say just because I think of plastics listen here plastic cup
50:00
Was something else prior It just has changed a little bit and you see they would try to throw something out there like well
50:07
Did Jesus change when he became flesh or did Jesus go through puberty or did
50:12
Jesus? did he turn 29 to 30 years old like things along those lines, which we know as Christians and as as as As evangelist became flesh
50:22
God took on humanity That's right, right and we and that that right there is falsely understanding the hypostatic
50:28
Union the nature of God Never changed, but it's part of the nature of man is that you grow old and you do change, right?
50:38
So there's some things going on there But that that's just this type of argument and reasoning that tries to make the
50:44
LDS sound right and and and whatnot So what one thing I hope that this proves everybody that's listening to this
50:52
Is that LDS are dangerous and they're educated on this matter right now.
50:58
Mm -hmm so Given given this You're you're going here that you're trying to achieve
51:05
Godhead. I mean do you go to just just the scripture when you
51:11
You know that listen if God if God was a sinner if Christ was a sinner He's not qualified to die on the cross to pay for your sin
51:19
He's not qualified as a sinner to be able to pay the penalty for your sin because you would have to die for his own well, they're not covenant theologians, so And they're also saying that Jesus they would say that Jesus didn't sin.
51:34
They would say Jesus was perfect and Didn't sin. Oh, however, they're saying but Jesus, you know
51:44
Really One of the things is is that Joseph Smith in in one section
51:50
I should have read for you right there Joseph Smith seems to admit that the father was the
51:56
Savior of his earth of his world Whatever world that was called that he was that to that one
52:02
However, that he could save that world as a sinner But he creates a world for his son
52:09
To save them, but he could not be a sinner Yeah, yeah one of those things with it's crazy stuff and I would say that not all
52:20
LDS believe this by any means I think this is just them throwing something out there saying well, you see
52:25
David was a sinner But yet David is called Elohim from Psalm 45.
52:31
So why couldn't the father? It's not admitting that he was a sinner. It's saying he could have been and not violated the term
52:38
Here's the issue not mom, so I'm not saying and the Orthodox Christian faith, right?
52:45
Christianity there are You know beliefs that we can differ over right and still remain a
52:53
Christian, but there are certain things Core issues the doctrine of God the doctrine of the
52:59
Trinity justification by grace alone through faith alone Essentials of the faith. Yeah, it cannot be messed with right and if you mess with it, you're not a
53:09
Christian What are those? Essentials in the Mormon Church because it sounds like it has
53:15
Like like you can just pitter -patter all you want to with the with their view of God Like what yeah, what are the you know, like like like for someone to claim to be a
53:28
Mormon Listen This is the moving of the goalposts that I'm talking about with this
53:37
I'm gonna change the definition to fit whatever I wanted to fit at the time according to these LDS people I would argue that in order to be considered
53:46
LDS It would be a person that holds to the 13 articles of faith that we looked at earlier one of those being that the
53:52
Bible Is not trend or the Bible is the Word of God as far as it's translated correctly Word about there's several other statement of faiths in there that you to have would have to believe in Second you'd have to believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet who received priesthood authority, which is completely different than the biblical propositions of what the priesthood was and is
54:12
But that Joseph Smith was a prophet that there's a modern prophet today and that you've been baptized into the church
54:18
Who's the modern prophet today? It's oh gosh, dang it. Of course, you'd have to ask that it's
54:24
The modern prophet be the the president Yes. Yeah, they call it the the president of the church
54:31
Yes, whenever I was going to that Mormon Church, it was Gordon B. Inkley. It was yeah, it's
54:37
Russell M Nelson I can't believe I didn't remember that. But yeah, he used to be Gordon B. Hinckley That's what I grew up with to Jeff then it became
54:43
Thomas S Monson and now it's Russell M Nelson Just one step closer to God then right godhood one step closer to Godhead.
54:51
Yep in their eternal progression So you can Manipulate the got the doctrine of God all you want, but just don't manipulate
55:00
The doctrine of Joseph Smith. I would agree with that. That's that's one of the things and listen listen
55:06
So this is something that I brought up with that conversation. I had with Zachary, right? At one point in the conversation.
55:13
I said look, how would you like it? If I claimed to be LDS and I went to each one of my neighbors and told them
55:19
I am a Mormon But I reject Joseph Smith I reject the Book of Mormon I reject
55:26
Baptism and priesthood authority in temples and so on and so forth I reject it all and I tell them
55:31
I'm LDS and I'm speaking as an LDS person to you and I represent LDS doctrines
55:36
How would you like it? And every time I've had a conversation with a missionary in person, they always say well
55:42
No, you can't claim that you gotta wear your white undies. I write and I look at them and I say listen
55:48
You can't claim to be a Christian for the exact same reason I can't claim to be a Mormon That's because definitions matter, right?
55:56
And so with this Zachary, right gentlemen, I I kept on pointing him to What the historical and biblical?
56:04
Essentials of the Christian faith are which is when Christ says you must do believe X and where you'll receive
56:10
Y like John 8 unless you believe I am you shall die in your sins If someone doesn't believe in Jesus Christ as the ego
56:17
Amy that I am You will die in your sins. That's a promise from Jesus.
56:23
That's an essential of Christianity You cannot be a Christian and deny the fact that Jesus Christ is the I am However, that that's a great flip by the way.
56:30
I mean that that's you're flipping their own their own thing Absolutely. Yeah, that's great
56:35
He then argued with me that I was being responsible for the true Scotsman fallacy
56:41
Which is the the fallacy that says well, no true Scotsman Scott Scotsman would eat porridge with honey
56:47
Because you have to eat it with peanut butter. Whatever the example is The issue with that is that is not a true
56:54
Scotsman's fallacy because in order for a true Scotsman fallacy to be a fallacy is you have to have an objective standard of what makes a true
57:04
Scotsman a Scotsman in the right They don't have that they don't so listen this is this is where a lot
57:12
This is where presuppositional apologetics and really logically thinking through these kind of things can really help you because if you were accused today
57:18
Well, you you're just you're you're making things up so that you can claim the title of Christianity, but I can't well
57:25
No, the Bible is coherent together and it tells us the definitions It tells us what the true
57:32
Scotsman is what the true Christian is Right, you're just not meeting those standards and then they would go right into well that you know, we have the
57:39
Bible too As far as I can be translated correctly, yeah but again, like craziness, so What happened?
57:57
I don't know. Do you guys hear that? No, what Oh an ad popped up on one of my other screens
58:09
It was some Joseph Smith's coming to get you
58:16
So there is one thing I did want to show show people this If you wouldn't mind pulling up this screen
58:22
Something that the Zachary Wright gentleman did that I think this is where I if I had the opportunity to talk to Dustin in that Conversation there there are times where men are called
58:33
Elohim's in the Old Testament. There's no Here hey, I just shared two pictures to our
58:40
Facebook chat I'm in our group messenger at the very end. Could you pull those up?
58:45
Whenever I'm done, okay, I should be able to do that. I should be able to do that. Remind me if I forget We need to start doing that.
58:52
Yes, we do But however, so one thing that I took Zachary right to which he just couldn't comprehend this which again
58:59
I think that goes to show that this is the the things of God are folly to those that are unconverted, right?
59:08
but Philippians 2 so he's he referenced Philippians 2 so again, how can an LDS person
59:14
Reference anything in the Bible if it's not the objective standard exactly. They can't they just can't they can't
59:22
It is but he said in Philippians 2 That it's
59:28
Jesus. So whenever we see Jesus being worshiped because that was one of my arguments was that Jesus is worshiped
59:33
God's only one that receives worship. So therefore Jesus is God and flesh worthy of worship Unlike other humans, right?
59:40
No other humans worthy of worship And he said well, no Jesus receives worship, but he gives it to the father
59:47
It's he's working as a mediator for us to worship the father not him Which that goes against exactly the words that it says that they worship
59:54
Jesus, but regardless of that So he referenced Philippians 2 which has nothing to do with the son giving worship to the father
01:00:03
It's only to the glory of the father that's right. So listen to this
01:00:10
Verse four over verse five and on is what exactly brought up and I'll read it It says have this mind among yourself, which was also in Christ Jesus who though he was in the form of God Did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped but emptied himself found in human form
01:00:26
He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death even death on a cross Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name so that the name of Jesus Every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is the
01:00:45
Lord to the glory of God the Father Amen now listen to this
01:00:53
Jesus who existed in the form of God When he becomes in the form of man, where was the father at during this time?
01:01:03
He he was sitting on the throne receiving worship from angels He was hearing
01:01:11
Glory, glory, glory, right? Where where was
01:01:17
Jesus at the one who's also God that is worthy of all that worship. Where is he on earth?
01:01:23
He's on earth hearing crucify Crucify away with him away with him.
01:01:28
That's the humility that's being talked about in here Is that Jesus Christ who was in as who was in the form of human was also
01:01:35
God in flesh? And that's why it's talking about humility have this attitude in yourself
01:01:41
However, that's not the point that I took Zach so Zachary references verse I loved it that he brought it in here because this verse right here unequivocally approves approve
01:01:52
What is the word? approves demonstrates Whatever you want to say
01:01:58
Demonstrates to us the deity of Christ here in verse 9 and on it says therefore
01:02:05
God has exalted to him and bestowed on him The name that is above every name so that the name of Jesus Every knee should bow in heaven on earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is
01:02:18
Lord to the glory of God the Father That is a quotation From somewhere in the
01:02:25
Old Testament It is a quotation from Isaiah Somewhere in 44 to 46 don't don't
01:02:32
I can't I can't remember off the top of my head exactly where it is Don't don't stone me, please but it
01:02:38
Isaiah says that at the name of Yahweh Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Yahweh Is Lord you see what
01:02:51
I'm saying? So what is Paul done in here? He says at the name of Jesus So Jesus connects
01:02:59
Yahweh the one and only God that there's none before nor after nor like Jesus and so Yeah Our times where men are called
01:03:11
Elohim. There is not a single time that another man in the Old Testament is called Yahweh Amen In fact, that's the whole reason that the
01:03:20
Jews Crucified Christ because he being a man made himself out to be God He being a man made himself out to be the
01:03:26
Son of God and he himself made himself out to be equal three accusations of why they try to kill him and stone him the
01:03:34
John and each time it comes after he claims that he is the great I am that's right straights his deity
01:03:44
Yahweh the one and only God Yeah, that's right, that's right, yeah, so I I yeah it's
01:03:53
It's a crazy Read it send it. That's it. You know,
01:04:05
I actually reference this Philippians 2 5 to 11 today.
01:04:11
Mm -hmm. I don't even know what I'm doing, man. I'm over here looking in Ezekiel All right, what
01:04:23
I say 45 23, yes, sir. Okay. Here we go Okay, yeah, it says about myself
01:04:35
I have sworn from my mouth has gone out in Righteousness a word that shall not return to me every knee shall bow
01:04:48
Every tongue shall swear allegiance only in the
01:04:54
Lord capital L or D Which is y 'all it shall be said of me all righteousness and strength to him shall come and be ashamed all who were increased in again increase against him and The Lord capital are they
01:05:18
Yahweh all the offspring of Israel shall be justified and shall worry
01:05:25
Then the very first few verses of 46. It says that Bell will bow down and Nebo will stoop over Speaking about the false gods of Babylon.
01:05:34
They will bow their knee to the name of Yahweh and then you go to Philippians 2
01:05:40
Listen LDS Dustin Zachary any other LDS person that might watch this you will either have your knee bowed one day
01:05:49
Under the wrath of God or today is the day to bow it to the Lord Jesus Christ.
01:05:55
That's right Hey, I think that Aaron guy is watching. Yeah, he is. Yep So I do have another spot up here
01:06:05
We can watch if we want let me I haven't presented it to you, huh My fault my fault
01:06:13
I get passionate about this stuff guys, so I hope It's received.
01:06:19
Well, this is it
01:06:27
Who wasn't isn't is to come those Let me ask a question
01:06:34
I'm just asking you a verse like Revelation 4a as previously quoted if I understand you correctly that does not
01:06:42
Suffice to establish that God never sinned. Is that fair? I'm just I'm just Under minor your theology that verse does not suffice to say that God was never a sinner period under any sort of Theology on the book of Revelation alone
01:06:58
Then you think that the Bible is sufficient to make a case that Heavenly Father never was a simple No, that's that was my whole point.
01:07:05
No, okay. That's why I was asking you about that Okay, so that's why I asked you why it was a criteria for someone to be a true
01:07:11
Christian They have to believe that God was never a sinner Yeah, that's built into the very definition of I mean the father of all three persons of the
01:07:21
Trinity Is not in the Bible. So again, we can Like Wow, I'm asking about typically got the father
01:07:29
We can formulate the Trinity if you want to but it's not that the two normally It's hero
01:07:35
Israel the Lord our God the Lord is one and And then and then sort of the the creed or the confession
01:07:42
Jesus is Lord To say that God is one. So what does God is one mean to say that God is one?
01:07:49
To say that God is one So, I hope you guys are seeing listen to how this gentleman
01:07:59
Dustin is not wanting to hear the actual argument And he's just going to go off on this rabbit trail.
01:08:04
Let's chase this other thing. Let's chase this other thing Let's chase this other thing instead of letting Aaron rightly so get out the the biblical view of this
01:08:12
Let's just stop it and cut it short and chase something else. So is Dustin claiming that that God Was a sinner and he's no longer a sinner
01:08:24
That he's now holy. Is that what he's claiming? Dustin's Dustin's argument if I have not mistaken
01:08:31
He's saying that the Bible is not sufficient at teaching us that the father never sinned
01:08:39
And and and I don't think Dustin Dustin believes that he ever sinned
01:08:44
I think he's just saying that the Bible isn't sufficient at making that case Wow He's saying that you need modern profits for that.
01:08:52
Yeah to be a Christian He's saying yeah, so he said that you know, it doesn't prove that that the father didn't sin
01:08:58
So what is the criteria for being a Christian? Mm -hmm. I mean so one of the Again, if if and you're saying you said that Mormonism does teach that's that Jesus never sinned, but the father did
01:09:12
It leaves it. I think it leaves it open for interpretation, especially Because the
01:09:18
LDS in modern times haven't continued to talk openly about it It's it's not with clarity that you could say one way or the other according to the
01:09:26
LDS But it is clear to say that God is not Trinitarian Oh, yeah. Yeah, they would dust the dust in all
01:09:33
LDS people would say that there's a plurality of gods within the Godhead that that the Deuteronomy 6 4 is is more or less
01:09:42
The way that I would have argued it was that the father is a God the son is a God and the spirit is a
01:09:47
God Hey God one in purpose. Yep. Wow This Though I think is pretty interesting.
01:09:56
There's two other spots. There's three other spots. I want to show so I'll be quick and show on this Oh clicked off a bit
01:10:05
Though it's a few say interpretation of Scripture by your prophets and apostles matter to you.
01:10:12
Yes. Yes Okay, so if you believe that says one thing but your prophets and apostles have interpreted to mean something else
01:10:18
Does that have any bearing on you? Yes, okay Yes, good Yeah, I can give an example is equal 37 has been interpreted by to this day is in the preach my gospel manual
01:10:31
Suggesting that the prophecy is by the students gathering is about the book a moment in the Bible together Okay, when
01:10:37
I read that I and I'm and I'm taking my LDS presuppositions out of it I see it as about the two nations of Israel and a restoration of Nations of Israel going back into being one so do that Israel together, right both and or either were for you
01:10:50
So that's where I was getting it. Why can't why can't it be both? why can't I agree and respect and fear the interpretations of my latter -day
01:11:00
Saint apostles and Also and also say that this is about the nation division.
01:11:06
Why can't I have my take and eat it, too? Did you guys catch what he's getting out with them
01:11:11
Right, right saying just because something is LDS doctrine official that has been taught and proclaimed and LDS Little kids are learning this right now just because that's the case doesn't mean that it's necessarily true and in other words your interpretation of the truth is your truth and my interpretation truth is my truth and we can we could just Agree to disagree and keep on going on living peacefully.
01:11:36
That's right. That's right I couldn't help but notice Aaron if you're still home brother What kind of Bible is that?
01:11:42
It looks like a nice Bible. Oh What Bible he's got there yeah, yeah
01:11:48
When you hold him, bruh Bible you think it is Jeff. I don't know. I couldn't hardly see him the way he was moving in but it looked like a nice Bible, of course
01:12:00
I'm a Bible enthusiast. You haven't gotten a post on a Bruce Lutz Bible rebind yet ESV creasing confessions.
01:12:07
He says oh You might need to get yourself a PTL post tenor
01:12:12
Bruce Lutz Jeffrey rice special This guy is the best Bible go grab your belt go grab your world champion
01:12:18
Bible Hey Aaron, man,
01:12:30
I mean seriously what a great job you did with this young man. I don't I don't I Don't think
01:12:36
I've been able to stand up there with him that long. I would just you know, what I've had enough
01:12:43
Good patience there good job Let me let me just say Jeff's Bible if you buy a
01:12:49
Bible from Jeff it will last you your kids lifetime They'll have the same Bible as you it's it's that's right.
01:12:56
It's quality is unbeatable. Look at that. There's the Bible Just wear that the rest of the night dude
01:13:09
Love it. All right. Listen to this now You are you professors can see more than They think that sometimes yeah, you're missing the point where the prophets and apostles are
01:13:27
Late our theologians. They interpret scripture publicly for the church. So they're not theologians.
01:13:32
They're not philosophers They're not really studying those arts and unless there's to be ultimately before their calling was in those arts maybe like a little bit like Jeffrey R Holland and so when the church has
01:13:41
People who write books for Deseret for scholars like that it is explicitly their job to go into the history to do like things like the
01:13:49
Joseph of Faber's project and to Interpret history and have a more accurate representation of history.
01:13:54
That is explicitly not the prophets and apostles job It's just explicitly not I don't I don't to interpret scripture.
01:14:00
That's not what I said I said to him like to go to the Joseph Smith papers and interpret history and see like who taught what when and all this stuff
01:14:07
That's explicitly not their job. That's that's not what they're claiming to do. How are you linking that with stuff like second?
01:14:14
He 525 23 Because it's not their job to study the English language Enough to understand that the word after and that in the way that it was used at that time when the broken one was translated
01:14:24
Could have meant despite it is it is their job to proclaim the doctrine of the church
01:14:29
That is that is their job, right? So as they're doing that they're interpreting scripture, right?
01:14:35
Yeah So when they get up for Millions of people in the general conference pulpit and they interpret a passage like second
01:14:41
Nephi 25 23 after all we can do They have a responsibility I hope you'd agree to do responsible interpretation and responsible exegesis at some basic level before before they get up as a possible exegesis
01:14:53
No, that's not at all. When like Matthew was doing. No, what are you talking about response to LDS prophets and apostles have a responsibility to responsibly exegete
01:15:02
LDS Canon from the pulpit of general conference. I Would I would say no why they have no
01:15:08
I don't think I have any training in exegesis Why would I expect them to give perfect exegesis when they use
01:15:13
LDS scripture? How do you communicate? Saints and be able to trust
01:15:18
Latter -day Saint prophets and apostles to publicly interpret scripture Over the church.
01:15:24
Yes. Do you trust the LDS prophets and apostles from the 1950s to the 1990s to interpret second
01:15:30
Nephi 25 23? I do trust that and respect their interpretations. Okay, a man would have respected so much to claim that they're even inspired.
01:15:37
Okay Guys I can't watch this again, you know, I mean seriously,
01:15:43
I don't know what he believes I mean,
01:15:52
I would like him to write down on a piece of paper What this is what I believe and let's you
01:15:58
I'll even start with you there Let's just go here and now let's compare it with the Bible it just crazy stuff listen, if Dustin sees this you are formally invited to come on to open -air theology and Have a conversation with us.
01:16:15
Yeah Zachary right you are formally invited to come on here and have a conversation with the three of us
01:16:23
I might have to I might have to plug my earphones just saying Now this is the sad part guys, let's listen to this real fast.
01:16:33
Yeah This is where let me be really like, I don't let me clear something up real quick.
01:16:39
They're talking about my Bibles So it cost me $125 in material cost to make a
01:16:47
Bible and if I buy the Bible I buy a nice Bibles So like those
01:16:52
LSB's I spent $70 for the Bible and So that's 120 25 plus the 70 75 with shipping so I got like right at $200 out -of -pocket
01:17:09
All right, and then the eight days it takes them to make a batch and the labor is worthy of his wage and I am you know hand stitch and like the stitching everything is hand done.
01:17:25
Everything is hand. That's like These things do not fall apart You can't buy anything like this even all the rebinders out there
01:17:34
Like the style that they do they stowed it for me. I came up with a style On this
01:17:46
LSB leather the leather they get they get for those be not as good as the leather I get They get theirs from China and China and I'm sorry still in it, but China and Korea I get mine from from Italy and and this
01:18:05
Mostly from Italy and just so everybody knows that this is the This is the judge of PTL Bibles right here
01:18:14
There's not another one made like it if you notice. I Mean, I make them.
01:18:19
Of course. I'm gonna make myself the best one I mean look at I mean got blue and you got silver
01:18:27
We gotta get back to the video you guys This is
01:18:36
Hey, your Bibles are nice. I are they are absolutely look you pay how much for a new phone?
01:18:44
Two years at most two years. I bought a John MacArthur Church Grace community.
01:18:50
Did you give it you have a 2002? What's her name didn't Dineen Dineen, oh,
01:18:56
I wonder she has one of them. Oh, I wonder if she does the NASB Grace Community Church, you know the the conference one.
01:19:04
Oh my goodness. The the Shepcon one. Do you have one of those? Oh Sorry, okay
01:19:11
Bible Well, I do think you are a polytheist
01:19:22
I don't I think that if your God were to exist. I would want to go to hell. Okay. Yeah, it's free
01:19:31
That's how the video ends Dude I really hope you get the gospel and repent and believe or else your wish is gonna come true my friend.
01:19:41
Yeah that is but But you know what? I mean, listen,
01:19:46
I mean The gospel we've we've said it before the gospel is in Purgatory It is judgment on those who want to remain in their sin
01:19:58
Who cannot see God for who he is who want who loved their sin more than Christ who died?
01:20:05
To pay the penalty for your sin if you would just repent and submit and bow the knee
01:20:10
You can have life eternal But if not You will you will go to hell and you will burn and it will be a darkness that none of us could even imagine
01:20:21
That's the reality of it Right now you want me to pull that video back up? Yeah, pull back up real fast.
01:20:27
I do want to just show this Look at this light dark
01:20:37
This is a man that spent several hours trying to get through to this Blinded individual who's dead in his sins.
01:20:45
That is a true it a Christian needs to remember that these these people these
01:20:51
People that reject Jesus Christ the biblical Jesus Christ They are dead in their sins and you could spend another 10 hours here and never talk this person into heaven and and Yeah, I'm sorry to interrupt.
01:21:04
I was just gonna I was just gonna add that and God is glorified in there right there
01:21:10
He's glorified Aaron. Good job, man. Aaron is a man that loves Dustin enough to stand out there for two hours
01:21:16
Amen, no, and I got and he's a man that loves Jesus enough to tell it this individual about him
01:21:21
But the LDS are claiming to believe in Jesus Christ however, Jesus Christ claimed that all the inerrant and sufficient
01:21:33
Old Testament Scripture pointed to him and The LDS are not being consistent and looking at the
01:21:42
Word of God alone for their sufficient rule of all saving faith and knowledge And so that you're not believing in the same
01:21:48
Jesus and that's why you have started to deny the deity the singularity of the deity of Christ and that he is
01:21:55
Immutable and that he does not change that. He is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the last
01:22:02
That there's none before him nor after him You want to claim you have made a
01:22:08
God in your own mind and you are wanting to claim that you are Ontologically the same or similar to the father and how dare you?
01:22:17
That is not that's not biblical Christianity. No, it's not By at least the first two commandments, that's right
01:22:24
Yeah Yeah, yeah Aaron are you on Facebook by chance he is yeah
01:22:33
Okay, I'll look for him. All right, he's a good dude Yeah, he is. He has a great debate with I can't ever say his name
01:22:41
It's the guy that James White had a conversation with him with Jeff Durbin. It's the LDS Kwaku or L How are you?
01:22:50
Yeah, quake quake. Yeah Bibles, man. Yeah That's bad a
01:22:56
Mormons got one of my Bibles and most of my peeps on here. Don't you know? It's answer her she asked if she would have sent me a
01:23:03
Bible it it really depends if you you know But you can get one bound for 300, you know, and you're
01:23:11
I mean the leather itself The materials cost of me nearly 125. I'm not making a killing.
01:23:17
I wish that was If everyone would pay me my royalties, they owe me All right,
01:23:24
I wouldn't complain a bit Tell me how many
01:23:30
Bibles can do this. Just let me show you this real quick Look at this flop. Yeah I know it's already
01:23:42
Like that is just But man that is nice stuff
01:23:53
All right, well That's all I got. I will say this and this is a true statement.
01:23:58
I am the only one that has the totalist I Imprint right there
01:24:05
Right now This is the goat this is the goat
01:24:13
Brighton if you could pull up those two pictures. Oh, yes. Let me do that right now my fault
01:24:21
Yeah, we got one of Iran elephant don't worry we'll bring it up it's with your weird nose to what
01:24:32
I have a picture of Jeff. No, if you don't It's about to be a one -man show
01:24:46
So I'm over here trying to advertise for my upcoming conference Yeah, oh this is fantastic, yeah
01:24:57
You are gonna I take you to war that's right Listen if you're not coming to this conference missing out like like what are you doing with your life?
01:25:12
I could do without three people being there. Actually, I'll say for Jeff myself Tom and obviously doesn't gonna be there
01:25:24
A Really good conference listen as good as the conference is like We also have
01:25:36
Kenny and Claire coming back as good as the conference is which the conference is phenomenal The conference alone is is worth the money, right?
01:25:45
But the fellowship like you Actually come and hang out with us afterwards meet us at the restaurants meet us at the cigar shops and hang out with us dude, it is a blast and I Guarantee you
01:26:01
I guarantee you listen. I talked to a guy the other day. He goes to the g3 He goes to all the the
01:26:06
MacArthur stuff, right and he says open air theology is the best conference Absolutely Hands down.
01:26:14
We just we have fun. It's well organized as I put it together and But other than but we have a lot of women can come as well
01:26:23
Yeah, man, yeah, this is not for men and women Children bring the children
01:26:31
Yeah, don't give the children Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if you want to go hang out the cigar shop with us don't bring your kids
01:26:40
No, the preaching is God glorifying. I mean, yeah much of Christ. We're gonna go out there
01:26:46
We're gonna have an evangelism event where we actually go out on the streets come and watch us do it
01:26:52
Participate with us hand out tracks with us. Yeah, I mean we make much of Christ at this Conference.
01:26:59
Yeah, absolutely. And Greg Moore is going to be the host and Greg Moore from dead men walking podcast
01:27:07
That's phenomenal And then we have over here at the other top is
01:27:18
Jeremiah nor tear and we'll pull up his Graphic Vader Yeah, so we're having a debate we don't have the graphic made for the pre -conference yet,
01:27:30
I'm hoping to get it out To Monday or Tuesday but we'll have it for the next show and the pre -conference is going to be on evangelism boot camp where we're going to be
01:27:40
Walking through people how to evangelize. So here's the debate that we're having Listen, this is going to be good.
01:27:47
Jeremiah nor tear has become a really good friend of mine He him and I talked for hours and you might think oh y 'all just you know agreeing with everything
01:27:55
No me and Jeremiah we fight just like me and these two guys We fight about it and and we and we have fun doing it like Jim Yeah, it is what it is.
01:28:07
That's why we have Jeremiah on here. Sometimes he He's someone that throws a sword out and he's not afraid to catch it
01:28:16
So but and then Lucas Lucas is a guy he debated one. I believe he debated him apology a church one of the deacons there and And so and and he seems to be a really good guy like I've text back and forth with him and and then like I'm Hearing really good things about him and I Just a lovely guy.
01:28:37
I can't wait to meet him. I mean he's wrong on this subject But we gotta have somebody to debate right?
01:28:43
Yeah but yeah, so This will be the debate.
01:28:49
This will be the last thing that happens on Saturday And then after the debate we'll be headed back out doing some street preaching
01:28:56
So I would encourage you to to come and join us come and hang out with your boys and have a good time and Listen I say this because I love you if you come to the conference.
01:29:09
I'm gonna expect you to buy me a sandwich Okay, that's it is what it is My favorite food is free.
01:29:17
Okay, if you come to the cigar shop, I'm gonna expect you to buy me a cigar Oh It's right, so I just Yeah, yeah, oh you sure do both you do don't you
01:29:29
I'm gonna get you a cheap one no I'm a buy a $20 one from here in Idaho.
01:29:38
It'll be a $2 one there in Texas I Jack legs is what they both are off the screen and we'll close.
01:29:50
We'll shut it down Cuz I gotta go smoke me a cigarette I get on my nerves that's
01:29:55
I'm gonna do too cuz yeah Lost City. This is an Opus X by something or other
01:30:04
Listen, I got a $2 cigar over here that burn just as good. I Don't know
01:30:11
Where's the thing there it is, you know, where you going you guys Really good.
01:30:17
It's not dark enough for me. No, this so this is really smooth. It's a good full flavor
01:30:23
This is a good cigar. Oh, there we go Better We need to have props given where props are do look look your neckline fits perfectly my neckline look at that seamless
01:30:47
Look at that even Don't have a net I Did I just got lift up Anyway, that's what the thumbnail is supposed to be
01:31:07
Jeff Jeff messed it up You messed it up I'm a week.
01:31:12
I'm and just say everybody knows we got on them too. I mean we got on the hard He'd cried a little bit
01:31:21
All right last words Go ahead
01:31:30
I gotta pull it up. Okay. I'll pull this one come to the conference. That's that's last word.
01:31:37
What is this? There's your last word
01:31:52
Grace Bible Church in Moorpark. If you live in that area Southern, it's Ventura County Go check out grace
01:31:58
Bible Church and oddly enough we go I go to grace Bible Church, but Bernie, Texas So we're a thousand miles away from each other same same
01:32:08
That goes to a church that actually has a name that if you hear it, you know, what exactly we believe
01:32:15
Covenant Reform Back this church in Tallahoma, Tennessee. Hey now mine that my church name.
01:32:22
I thought you just said I thought you said your name was Covenant Covenant No, but I mean it the name is
01:32:36
Covenant, but we are a Reform Baptist Church And so you say Covenant Reform Baptist Church.
01:32:41
I mean it could be Covenant doctrine covenants You know No, we beat
01:32:50
Mormons Covenant 1689