June 12, 2023 Show with Jarrin Jackson on “Christian Nationalism is Inevitable & That’s Good News!”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

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George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 12th day of June, 2023.

We are addressing, once again, a very controversial subject. I believe it is the third interview that I have done on this subject with a different guest.

All three interviews have involved different guests taking slightly different perspectives on this issue that we are about to unfold right now.

We are going to be talking about Christian nationalism, and specifically, from the viewpoint of my guest,

Jaron Jackson, who is a first -time guest today. He is a combat veteran, recipient of two

Bronze Stars and the Combat Infantry Men's Badge, and the host of Jaron Jackson ThoughtStream.

We're addressing his book, Christian Nationalism is Inevitable, and that's good news.

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jaron Jackson.

Chris, God bless. Thank you for having me on. It is a privilege to be on this program. It's a privilege to have you on the program.

I don't know if anybody has ever told you this, but your name is the perfect action hero name as far as I'm concerned,

Jaron Jackson. Jaron, tell us, first of all, we have a tradition here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, where first -time guests give a summary of their salvation testimony, and that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which you were raised, and the kinds of providential circumstances our

Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you, so let's hear your story. Well, thank you.

I was raised Church of Christ. I still attend a Church of Christ denomination, and from my salvation story,

I've always believed there was a God. I've never doubted. It's never been an issue in my life that I've ever doubted.

With that, both of my parents, loving Christian parents, Christ was a conversation topic, conversation focus in the house, and so I am one of those that benefited from two godly parents.

My father just went home February 1st, but he and my mom were married. It would have been 45 years,

April 29, so he just passed away from stage four cancer.

But other than that, very loving Christian home. All four of us kids are gospel believers.

We're all Bible believers. I saw the towers fall on 9 -11. I decided to—well,

I saw them on TV, so I wasn't there. I'm from Oklahoma, so I wasn't there.

Actually, my brother who worked in Manhattan nearby Ground Zero saw them fall. Okay. Well, yeah, so I remember walking into high school.

I was a junior in high school, and I remember that was a Tuesday, and it was the biggest news around.

That was the day that I decided to go into the military. So it was two more years before I graduated.

Long story short, I went to West Point. I graduated Ranger School. I chose infantry to be an infantry officer so I could get as close to the enemy as I could because, like all

America -loving, red -blooded men, I wanted to go do the damage to the enemy.

In fact, I wanted to be as close to the enemy as possible, which is why I live just a few minutes from the

Democratic headquarters here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. Yeah. And there's—Carlisle, you guys have the

War College there too. That's right. We do. We do. You have all the brass has gone through Carlisle at some point.

In fact, if your listeners didn't know that, that's something that I would—I mean, that's a great apologetic. That's a great mission field.

Oh, yeah. If you want to influence the U .S. military, every general, just about every

Army general has gone through Carlisle, Pennsylvania for the War College. And I know friends who are

Christians who are retired military who are actively involved in evangelism over there, and I've had at least one chaplain from the

Army War College come to my Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon. It may have been two, but I've definitely had at least one.

And of course, they vary in degree of whether or not they're truly Christian, being a chaplain in a place like that.

But I hope to have more visits from chaplains over there and members of the military.

Well, and if you look at our military today, basically everything's a mission field right now.

I mean, you can throw a stone at anything, and that's a mission field. So if you have the hankering to evangelize to some high -ranking

Army officers, Lord knows we need it. The military is not going the way that it should be going.

But it was as a junior officer, so I was an infantry officer, deployed my first time out of Fort Campbell, a member of the 101st.

I was there for about 14 months in eastern Afghanistan. Right before I deployed,

I met my wife. I dated her for five weeks. I asked her to marry me after five weeks.

We got married four months after, and then three weeks after my wedding day, I was in Afghanistan for 14 months.

So yeah, so we moved quick, and we survived, still married.

We got three kids. We homeschooled, and that first deployment really grew me up. It was a very kinetic, very lethal—you'd basically think of anything you could think about in combat, and if I haven't done it, it's been very close.

And so there were multiple instances there. I hit three dismounted IEDs, which is basically a bomb on the ground that blows up with unit right next to it, and every single time that the device detonated, it knocked me to the ground, but the insurgent had put the shrapnel on the other side of the berm.

So the shrapnel just would have been a loose collection of rocks or nails or glass or bullets, just something to rip through flesh.

And whenever they put in the device, they would put the shrapnel on one side of the berm, expecting the victim to be on that side.

Well, by God's grace, he put me close enough to the explosion, which knocked me down, but all of the shrapnel went the other direction.

So yeah, that was three times. I also got hit when

I was in a truck. I got the video of that. I'll send it to you after so you can see that. It's just a big bomb exploding a truck.

It's nothing special. But so anyway, I have multiple, multiple times when before I even knew it,

God was protecting me. And I mean, it doesn't make sense. Statistically, to hit three dismounted

IEDs on one deployment is rare. Personally, to hit three dismounted

IEDs. Well, I hit three and every single one of them, the shrapnel was on the other side. Wow.

That's not I don't know what the statistics are, but that's not common. Other than that,

I mean, so I could give you lots of other ideas. But the biggest one was after I got out of the military.

My father had cancer. He had complications from surgery where they took out his prostate and he went septic and he was in the

ER. He was in the ICU. And I remember, you know, the doctor coming up to my mother and asking her to sign the do not resuscitate.

And my mother being the godly, faithful woman she is, she said, no, he's going to get better. And the doctor's looking at all of us like we don't know what we're talking about because he knows the science and he knows that my dad's body is failing.

And I remember pulling the hoodie. This is February 5th, 2018. So it's winter.

I remember pulling the hoodie over my head, saying, God, if you restore my father, I will be shameless for you.

And my father did not die at that time. He came back to a good recovery. And that was really the first time that I had that, you know, that weight that said, go tell people about Jesus.

So I'd walked with Christ since 1997 when I was 12. But in 2018 was really the first time that I had this.

You need to go tell people about Jesus type of situation, like do it earnestly, do it purposefully.

And given my background as an infantry officer, I debated and did speech at state champion level and national level in college.

So public speaking is not hard for me. It's a gift. And so that was the first time

I said, OK, I'm going to start doing this. So I'm a little bit combative. You know, I can be,

I should say. And so I do things online. And then all of a sudden, when 2020 rolled around,

I lost both of my restaurants in COVID. They were both shut down. So I lost both of them there.

And I decided to run for state Senate in Oklahoma in 2022. And long story short, the press caught a hold of a

Bible believer who spits fire and quotes the Bible. And, you know, what kind of restaurants did you own?

So I owned two Subway restaurants, two Subway franchises. I didn't know anything about business, but I figured if I just do what they tell me, kind of like the

Army, you know, I can succeed. And I was hitting record sales. Things were going really well.

And all of a sudden I had two police officers come in my restaurant March 18, 2020. And they said, you need to shut down.

Don't let anybody in. And don't let us catch you with anybody in. And one of them was a vet.

And one was a veteran. And I remember telling him, what are you doing?

You know what you're doing is wrong, right? Like, you know, this isn't America. And he goes, I'm just following orders.

And I was like, dude, the Nazis said that. Like, that's the

German answer. That's what the Nazis said. And he just goes, my hands are tied.

I was like, okay, I got you. And so, you know, for all of us, I'm sure COVID was a wake -up call for many people.

And for me, I was just trying to make a living, trying to do things. And I said, if you're not going to leave me alone, then we homeschool my kids.

My kids get an internet pre -roll ad on YouTube. It's a program teaching them how to play piano.

And the ad is a cartoon LGBT material. And I said,

I'm homeschooling my kids, and I can't even let them watch a piano video. And this is back in 2020.

So I said, okay, I'm in. So I ran for state senate. And a lot of people didn't like what

I had said, because, you know, the comment was about if you don't believe the gospel, you're going to go to hell, which is true.

I mean, that's a biblical comment. But there's a contingent on the internet that really hates

Jews. And I never said anything bad about the Jewish people, because I want to study their culture.

I mean, I want to know, you know, that's where my messiah comes from, right? Like, that's— And so—

And the church initially was entirely Jewish, initially. Right. So they want to know, why do

I never say anything bad about the Jewish people? Because God chose them, and I need to learn about them.

And so I said, if Jews don't believe the gospel, they're going to go to hell, just like everybody else. And of course, our biblically illiterate, godless, anti -Christian media, of course, they take that and they run with it.

So, you know, that's how things go. If you love Jesus in the public square, you will be skewered.

You will be attacked, which is kind of the basis of where I'm coming from in this book. Amen. And just to do some damage control, so we don't waste time when we may have listeners sending in questions about your

Church of Christ background. You are not a stereotypical member of the

Church of Christ. You were talking before about introducing—aggressively and passionately introducing people to Jesus.

You weren't, or are not, aggressively and passionately introducing people to a baptismal tank or a swimming pool.

And as I was telling you, as a young man, a teenager, when my brother was first involved in the

Church of Christ, he and his friends wanted to drag me into any deep enough body of water to immerse me, regardless of what

I understood about Jesus Christ and the gospel. You are not that. You are not some cultic individual who believes everyone else on the planet is damned.

Right. And you have a close fellowship with theologically reformed people and even

Pado -Baptists. Yeah, so I am good friends with the

Moscow, Idaho crowd. I have wrapped my arms around Jeff Durbin and given him a hug.

He's a good friend, by the way. Yeah. So he was at the Oklahoma Capitol.

I'm an abolitionist, so I work here in Oklahoma trying to get rid of abortion because it's murder.

No, my theology is that 1 Corinthians 15, 1 through 4, this is the message that saves, that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins according to the

Scriptures, that He was buried and He was raised three days later according to the Scriptures. I don't push the denomination.

Like I was telling you off air, probably one of the greatest,

I would say one of the greatest influences on my faith is Greg Bonson.

The presuppositional approach, it just clicked with me. With my debate background, he approached it from a rhetoric and a logic perspective.

I understood it from a begs the question perspective. You have to have some type of foundation for your knowledge.

It just made sense to me that whenever we're speaking about the Bible, the Bible has to be self -referential and self -authenticating because if it's not, then

God's Word needs someone who's not God in order to verify what God said. That just made sense to me.

I didn't even know that Bonson was Reformed whenever I was reading his book. So I had no idea, but I was like, this guy makes sense.

And he kept talking about Cornelius Van Till. So I became a student of Van Till. So that should flash my bona fides.

Yeah, I had the great honor and privilege before I was even a talk show host to interview

Greg Bonson in the study of a pastor, my friend Steve Schlissel of Messiah's Congregation in Brooklyn, New York.

Years ago, back in the early 90s, Steve had Greg Bonson preach at his church in Brooklyn, and I can still remember it was the first sermon that I ever recall having heard on the theme of the ascension of Christ.

And Steve said to me, I know you're not a talk show host now. I worked in Christian radio as an advertising salesman.

And he said, I know you're not a talk show host yet, but I know you will be. He was not speaking as he believed he was a prophet, but he just recognized some of my gifts and my passions.

And he said, so I want you to record an interview with Greg Bonson in my study. And I did.

And amazingly and astonishingly and tragically, I lost the tape.

So my one interview with Greg Bonson, who

I'm almost certain passed before I had my own show, it's gone forever unless someday somebody finds it in a trash heap somewhere and mails it to me.

But you've heard his last sermon, right? Like you've heard his very last sermon that he preached.

I actually don't know if I have. Well, so his last sermon, he speaks about the fact that he's about to go underneath or under surgery.

Like he died from complications in surgery. And his final sermon, he speaks about that.

He says, it's God's sovereignty. It's God's will. If I die, then

I'm going to be with Christ. If I don't, then, you know, because he had heart problems. And I just found it so profound.

And it reminded me a lot of my dad. My dad, right before he died, his last words.

And this is a stage four, you know, cancer victim. His body is withered and ravaged from cancer.

My dad's last words were, his grace is sufficient. And I was just, you know, and so it is just so profound to me when someone speaks about our

Lord endearingly right before they die. Because it's like that,

I mean, that's right where you want to be. That's right where you want to be. Amen. Well, we are going to our first commercial break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Jaron Jackson on Christian nationalism, our email address is

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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Let's say something we are addressing is something that you agree with, but you know that your own pastors are very radically opposed to something that you may believe about this subject, and you don't want to identify yourself at this point.

I understand that. But you may be the pastor yourself, and you may have come to adopt a view that supports

Christian nationalism, and you're not ready to identify yourself because you're at odds with your own elders, you're at odds with your denomination, or what have you.

Or perhaps you even radically oppose what my guest is saying, but you don't want to identify yourself because you really haven't thought the whole concept through completely yet.

We understand all those reasons might be compelling enough to have you remain anonymous.

But if you are just asking a general question, please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And don't go away, because we are going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of Jaron Jackson, and Christian nationalism is inevitable, and that's good news.

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Iron Trip and Zion Radio to ensure that we will get 100 % of the profits. We are now back with our guest,

Jaren Jackson, combat veteran, recipient of two bronze stars, and the Combat Infantryman's Badge, and the host of Jaren Jackson ThoughtStream.

We are addressing his book, Christian Nationalism is Inevitable, and that's good news.

If you want to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We already have some folks waiting to have their questions asked and answered by my guest,

Jaren Jackson. Before I go to them, is there a bare minimum workable definition that you can provide for Christian nationalism that the majority of professed adherents to that concept have some kind of mutual agreement over?

I mean, one thing that I've learned about this topic is that it is not a monolithic group of people who identify themselves as Christian nationalists.

There is diversity. There is disagreement. In fact, I want to let our listeners know that after this program is over, after this live interview is over, if you go to ironsharpenzionradio .com

and you type in Christian nationalism in the search engine, you will find two interviews that I've already conducted on this theme.

The first on May 18th with my friend Virgil Walker of G3 Ministries, who conducted an interview on Christian nationalism, a review of the broad spectrum of its professed adherents.

He takes a more cautious view of this concept. And then on June 2nd,

I had my friend Doran Ray, who is the pastor of Union Baptist Church of Ahoskey, North Carolina, address

Christian nationalism, a pastoral examination, where he is a passionate advocate of Christian nationalism.

And what makes him unique in having this view is that he is a progressive dispensationalist and a premillennial pretribulationalist, which seems to be a very rare group of people that would endorse something like Christian nationalism.

Most of the people I know that endorse it are post -millennial and theonomic. But going back to you,

Jaron, can you provide us with any kind of a minimal definition? Yeah, one of the things that I try to do in my book is

I try to let the Bible define a word. I don't think that God speaks like a dictionary, and I don't think that he answers questions like an algorithm.

And so there's some type of maturity we have to have whenever we approach it, when we have to say, does

God speak on this? God, I do think he speaks on Christian nationalism. He needs to be heard, though.

So Christian, Acts 11, 26, is the first time that Christians are called

Christians at Antioch. That's chapter one, where they love each other.

They witness to people. They tell people about the Messiah. They preach the gospel. They do life together, and then they get called

Christian. So we might even disagree on what the definition of Christian is.

But I would say someone who's born again has their heart circumcised by the Holy Spirit, according to the gospel, as Paul taught.

At the same time, for nationalism, I think a nation is simply a people in a place with a purpose, a people in a place with a purpose.

And I believe that it is Christ's mission to his church that we should all want, that he wants everything to obey him.

And so that means all people in all places and all their purpose is going to be his purpose to obey his commands.

And so that's not really a working academic political definition. And I think that's kind of the point.

But at least hopefully that reflects some of my thinking about how to come to that idea.

Well, we have our first listener question, Seth in Hummeltown, Hummelstown, Pennsylvania.

And Seth says, Greetings, Mr. Jackson. Thank you for your service to our country.

How has serving in the military given you a unique perspective on the Christian nationalism topic?

And this is going to be raw. I was I've killed people for our country.

And I've lost friends in service to this country. If your country is led by people who don't love

Christ, then you're going to be doing things that I mean, just take that to its logical conclusion.

One of one of the worst moments of my life was on October 5th, 2010. We engaged five insurgents bearing a bomb.

So it's a legal target. They're planting a bomb. It's two o 'clock in the morning. And we kill them, you know, because they're putting in a bomb.

There's they're they're doing what they should not be doing. And it hit me. I was 25 at the time.

It hit me. This is a Muslim country. I'm 11 months into my deployment here.

And it finally hit me. They're Muslims. And they I mean, they're probably

Muslim. It's 99 .9 % Muslim country. And it hit me there in hell because they don't know

Christ. And so that really got to me because now I'm still, you know,

I still got three months left in country. And there were still people that we engaged after that.

And I guess my purpose in the military is if you're commander in chief, or if you're not serving the king, the implications are dramatic.

And so if your actions are not, if your actions and your path is not with Christ, it could be catastrophic.

And that could be small, you know, whether that's a sin nobody knows about that's hidden in your deepest recess of your heart, or you're using lethal force on a foreign battlefield against an announced enemy to your state.

The ramifications are, are profound. Yeah, well, even right here on our soil, here in America, we had

Barack Obama advocating drone strikes against American citizens for reasons that he deemed to be fit to do that.

So if somebody is going to be doing something like that, there's got to be somebody in the military operating that drone.

And if you're a Christian, you don't want to just be like a Nazi, I must follow orders where you're killing somebody that may be a who knows the way the direction this country may go with the leftists imposing their insanity upon the population.

You may have drone strikes against people because they are born again evangelicals, they are openly opposing transgenderism or who knows, but am

I making sense there? Yeah, I think what I would call it is first principles, you know, or as Jesus teaches at the very last of the

Sermon on the Mount, the wise man builds his house upon the rock, the foolish man builds his house upon the sand.

I believe he's talking about your epistemology there. I think he's talking about your knowledge and how you build your worldview.

And, you know, I can have someone in my chain of command like the president. I mean, I was deployed in 2010.

My commander in chief was Obama. So I'm using force in pursuance of the

Constitution according to Obama's authorization, presumably. And so you can be a

Christian participating in doing things, you know, under a godless leader, but you need to make sure that you're ultimately responsible for pulling that trigger.

You are ultimately responsible for that battlefield effect. And I think that that's probably where I'm distinguished from most folks on this topic.

And, you know, I'm not trying to bristle or anything, but I mean, how many people talking about Christian nationalism have actually killed anybody?

Right. And I don't say that from an academic perspective. I mean, like whenever you take a life and you walk over the body, there's a consequential part of that.

You did that. And so what I advocate for in my book,

I don't take it from a political perspective. A lot of people hear Christian nationalism and they automatically think politics, government.

I don't do that. I take it from a what does the Bible say and who is Christ perspective, which gives some nuance there because and I write that in what chapter three where I talk about what

Christian nationalism is and what it is not and what it is not. It's not idolatry.

I don't love my nation more than I do love more than I love my savior. I'm also not a

Nazi, so I'm not trying to hunt people down and compel people to obey me or to believe the gospel because that's not how

Jesus did it. So it's what I try to do is get back to what the

Bible says and let the Bible provide a methodology for exploring the ideas. In fact, you said something very crucial here, because when the

Roman Catholic Church was involved in a theocracy, they tortured and in very gruesome and nightmarish and grotesque ways individuals and eventually martyred them to force them to believe in Christ and adopt

Roman Catholicism. We know that the Bible teaches you cannot force anybody to believe in Christ other than in an intellectual sense.

You can't force someone to be born again. That is a gift of God alone, and the church has enough false professors in it without us forcing people to make professions.

So this is not a part of your concept because that would be the canard of many people who oppose the very notion of what you are talking about.

They would try to associate you with the atrocities of Rome in centuries past, and also magisterial

Protestantism did the same thing, although I don't believe that they were trying to compel people to come to Christ through the threat of violence and the actual violent acts.

They were just punishing people who disagreed with them on various issues. So put our listeners at ease in regard to this.

I have actually used the phrase to contrast what a theocracy would be, which would be a nation governed by God's moral law.

I've compared that and contrasted it with an ecclesiocracy, which is where you have a denomination trying to impose its specific ceremonial law and other things that are not a part of the moral law of God, imposing that upon a nation.

Like, for instance, you mentioned your Church of Christ background. I know that you would be adamantly opposed to a

Church of Christ theocracy where if people were worshipping with musical instruments, they'd be dragged off to prison and tortured and executed if they didn't repent of that.

So am I making sense here? Yeah, absolutely. I also think, and maybe this is where I can draw some nuance, and I write this in my book, when you hear nationalism, your brain, all of our brains have been trained to think something.

We probably have elements of World War II and Nazis and goose -stepping Germans conjured up.

You have that mental picture. Then whenever you hear Christian nationalism, there will be people that bristle for all sorts of reasons because they don't want their

Savior's name run through the muck to be brought down to just another political thing. I get that.

But for me, it starts with a nation is a people in a place with a purpose.

Paul writes in Romans 11, he's going to do anything to provoke the Jews to jealousy.

He's not going to compel them, but he's going to teach in a way. He's going to show the fruits of the

Spirit. He's going to bring the gospel in such a way. And I think that Christ is so creative, and I think that Isaiah 9, 7, he is so zealous to make this happen.

He's going to do it in a way that none of us expect, which is where, you know, I can't think, but what's it,

Isaiah 2, when your swords are beaten into plowshares. And so we're talking about government, but from Christ's perspective, and this is all throughout

Scripture, we're talking about a time when people aren't behaving the way that we see them behave, because I think that the working of the gospel is so victorious, and Christ is so creative that as this happens, we start to realize, well, we don't really need this mechanism or this mode of government anymore.

And so if we look at Christian nationalism as exclusively a political term, we're actually, you know, bracketing our brains into, you know, a concept that one, isn't necessarily biblical, but two, because it's not leading with the gospel, we're actually restricting our words and our ability to think about what this actually means.

And if I could say one last thing, I took on the term Christian nationalist, because when

I ran for state senate last year, my slogan was Christ, not communism.

And I got called a Christian nationalist, and I said, you know what, the enemies of Christ are using this label to tell

Christians to shut up, to get them out of the public square. And so I said, I'll jump on that grenade.

I will completely embrace this term, which I believe is the way that Christian came about, Antioch in Acts 11, 26.

I think that was an insult. I don't think it was something that the Christians came up with. I think that they were made fun of, or at least that's how they were identified.

And so, you know, I say in the book, the word gospel, well, that word was used for Caesar.

Jesus took that and made it about him. So, we have a long standing history of taking what the world is using and bending it back towards Christ.

And so, from that perspective, I am more than willing to say, whatever we think about government, the gospel will make it bend its knee and proclaim

Christ as king. 05 Thank you, Seth. And you have won a free copy of Christian Nationalism is

Inevitable. And that's good news. Just provide for us your full mailing address in Hummelstown, Pennsylvania.

And our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com will ship that out to you at no charge to you or to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

An anonymous listener says, I'm remaining anonymous because I'm getting negative feedback from my brothers and sisters in my own church because of my leaning toward Christian nationalism.

My question is, your book has an intriguing title, which is

Christian Nationalism is Inevitable. Are you revealing here that you are post -millennial?

And if not, what eschatological view would you embrace? 06

Yeah, that's a great question. And I don't know how to answer that directly, except for I like to use Bible words.

And when people say post -millennial, they've gone to one chapter in one book for one very specific idea.

I am a great commission guy. When Jesus, who is my king, says, go make the nations obey.

I say, Roger that, sir. And my spiritual tie to that is that the

Roman centurion, the guy that says, Jesus, don't even come in my house, just give the word and it's so.

And if you think about it, that's the first time that Jesus heals from afar. Every other time he's right there to lay on hands.

And that's the first time by a pagan who believes in Christ enough to say, just give the word and it's done.

So, you know, to ask what my eschaton is, I believe that, you know, the

Hebrew says we've been in the last days for 2000 years. So I'm not going to just count my watch towards what the times are anymore because Christ is king.

And he said, go make the world obey, go make the world obey and teach them to be disciples.

And from my perspective, that's the mission. That's the focus. When people bring it to the academic and they start saying post -millennial, well, let's get to that presupposition.

We're now going to talk about the millennial kingdom. Well, hold on. Do we care about the millennial kingdom if there is no king?

Do we have a king? Yes. How do we know that? The Bible says he rose from the grave. Amen. So people are talking about a millennial kingdom and I'm saying the king's on the throne.

Hebrews chapter 10 verse 13 says that he expects everything to be brought to his feet.

He expects it to be. So you have a king on his throne expecting everything to be brought to him.

Psalm 110, everything will be brought to him. He expects that. From my perspective,

I don't really like the pre -millennial, amillennial, post -millennial debate because for me, the

Bible settles it. It's Christ is king and he's on his throne and he expects obedience. By the way, every post -millennialist

I know would agree with every word you just said, with the exception of saying that it's only found in one verse of the

Bible. And also the avoidance of the term. Those would be the two areas where they would disagree.

But they would be saying, they're probably shouting at their radios or computers, amen right now for most of what you said.

Yeah, and this is just the debater in me, my debate background. I don't like to take on a label because then

I have to defend it. But yeah, I mean, I would be in that camp. Yes, I would be a post -millennial. Okay.

And we have to go to our midway break right now, folks. Oh, by the way, Anonymous, give us your complete name and mailing address, obviously, through email.

We're not going to identify that on the air. Email me your full name and mailing address, because you have also won a free copy of Christian Nationalism is

Inevitable. And that's good news by our guest today, Jaron Jackson. So CVBBS .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service will ship that out to you. We're going to our midway break right now. Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is longer than the other breaks in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, is required by the FCC to localize geographically

Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida, where they are located. And they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air in the middle of the show, while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

Use this time wisely. Write down as much of the contact information as possible for as many of our advertisers as possible, so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers.

And at the very least, if you love this show, simply contact them to say thank you for sponsoring

Iron Trip and Zion Radio. And also send in your questions to Jaron Jackson, to chrisorensen at gmail .com.

We'll be right back after these messages with more of Jaron Jackson and Christian Nationalism. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia, again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd, on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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Chris Arnson, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Riley, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show he really loves hearing interviewed,

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Atai in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

Dr. Joe Moorcraft. If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards, and Dr.

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight -volume commentary on the larger catechism. Heritage is a member of the

Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great

Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone, grace alone, faith alone,

Christ alone, and God's glory alone. Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, or call 678 -954 -7831.

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Joe O 'Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener, and Mattai in County Kildare, Ireland, send you.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training, assessments, and certifications. But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent. My name is A .M. Brewster. I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider

Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net,

that's hopereformedli .net or call 631 -696 -5711, that's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Before I return to my guest, Jaron Jackson, author of Christian Nationalism is

Inevitable, and that's good news, we just have a couple of very important announcements to make.

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I want to remind you that my dear friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is going to be visiting

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This will involve a two -day debate. This will involve also a Lord's Day worship service at two different locations.

And there's also in the works, although it is not finally established at this point,

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Finally, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church, no matter where in the world you live,

I may be able to help you find a church, just as I have done with many people in our audience all over the planet

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Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you could send in a question to Jaron Jackson, our guest today, on his book,

Christian Nationalism is Inevitable. And that's good news.

Let's see, we have a listener, Ted in Moundville, Alabama.

And let's see, Ted says, what is your guest's view on freedom of religion?

I have heard Christian nationalists say that the First Amendment of the United States Constitution is essentially an anti -Christian document.

John MacArthur has said that freedom of religion is not a good thing. What does your guest believe?

And that kind of goes hand in hand with what we were saying before when I was trying to compare and contrast a theocracy with an ecclesiocracy, whereas an ecclesiocracy would not tolerate a freedom of religion and would impose on its citizens or subjects the adherence to one specific denomination.

And I gathered that that is not what you are advocating. But if you could answer our listener's question about freedom of religion.

Great question. Dr. MacArthur is a staple in my thinking. He's a titan.

He's a legend. So all respect to Dr. MacArthur. He's...

So the answer that I would point out is that we have the common law. And in America, and I pointed that out in one of the chapters,

America the Beautiful, when I said that our founders gave us a common law, which comes from the

Protestant tradition from Great Britain. This is the Puritan, you know, so let it be written, so let it be done.

Where's the say in the Bible? Sola Scriptura. Freedom of religion in that capacity, when the founders wrote it, was that you had the freedom to practice whatever form of Christianity you wanted.

And because that's what they believed. One of the maxims of law in the common law tradition says

Christianity, the Christian religion is part of the common law. So this is a

Christian nation. It has Christian foundations. And so those words are not anachronistic.

They're not a way just because our society has changed. You have the freedom to worship whatever religion you want.

At the same time, if your religion is deleterious to other people, like there's

Satanists that are suing the federal courts so that they have the right to perform abortions.

The common law tradition coming from Christendom is that you can't violate the rights of any other person.

And clearly, murdering a baby in the womb is violating that baby's right to life.

And it goes against the word of God. I also believe that in America, you want

Christianity. And I don't want someone trying to impose that on other people.

So I am fine with other people worshiping other faiths. I'm also of the belief that because Christianity is true, if we are faithful in the proclamation of the gospel, other faiths will look at what we have and say that's better because it's true.

That's not a turnkey answer. And that might disappoint people. But that's where I am willing to rely on the sovereignty of God because he's in charge anyway.

And he's going to be faithful working through his body. And so I think that the question of the

First Amendment, the First Amendment is actually to secure people's ability to give remonstrance to their government, to keep their government in track, to make sure that their government is doing what they're supposed to because we live in a constitutional republic.

And so if we have a right understanding of civics in this nation, we'd understand that that is a power reserve, the right reserve to the people.

It has nothing to do about what version of Christianity. It says, government, keep your hands off of me practicing my religion.

By the way, to piggyback on that, I want to highly recommend a book written by a long time dear friend of mine,

David Dykstra, Yearning to Breathe Free, Thoughts on Immigration, Islam, and Freedom.

And Dave Dykstra makes an excellent case using the nation of Israel in the

Old Covenant as an example where they had different categories of people who were not worshippers of Jehovah, who were either welcomed, tolerated, or prohibited from living in their midst in Israel.

It wasn't just a completely open door policy like leftists want us to have here in this nation, a borderless nation where people can just flood in here no matter what they believe.

But at the same time, it wasn't the Iron Curtain either, where the author,

Dave Dykstra, is demonstrating in the book how the nation of Israel did have categories of those who did not worship

Jehovah dwell among them in peace. So I would highly recommend that.

You could get that on Amazon, Yearning to Breathe Free, which is a quote from the

Ezra Lazarus poem that you see on the base of the Statue of Liberty, which reminds me to ask you about Islam.

There are many wonderful citizens of the United States who are patriotic, who love

America, who actually fled even though they are Muslims themselves. They fled Islamic persecution in other lands because they were not specifically the same kind of Muslim.

In fact, the greatest targets for persecution by Muslims are other

Muslims. So you have people who are wonderful neighbors that live in our midst who are

Muslims, but you have those who are not yearning to breathe free.

They are not interested in a constitutional republic where there is freedom of religion.

They do desire a Sharia law here in the United States. They do desire to even commit terrorist acts.

And that's where Dave Dykstra would differentiate what kind of a Muslim should be permitted to live here.

Would you make that same differentiation? Yeah, absolutely. And that's because if you, you know, my first deployment,

I studied with an imam or I studied with a mullah for two hours every day for seven months.

And I was, he was trying to convert me and I was just trying to learn the language and the customs. So I know

Islam really well. And the God of Islam is not the God of the Bible. That is a demonic religion.

And if anyone is a Muslim, they need to repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. And I think that there's so many opportunities for Christians to witness to Muslims.

At the same time, Muslims will follow, generally speaking, will follow the pattern of the prophet where he was peaceful in Medina and he was militant in Mecca.

So whenever he was the minority, he was peaceful preaching tolerance. And this is where you get surah five.

There is no compulsion in religion. Well, he said that in Medina when he's outnumbered, but then whenever you get into Mecca and he becomes a warlord, he starts to get into surah nine which is one of the last major revelations of the

Quran. And he's saying there in what surah 929, he says, fight those who do not believe until the last day and strike at them.

Strike at their necks, surah 973. So when Muhammad got military power and he became the warlord, he said in the

Hadith, he makes his living under the shade of his spear. He was a tyrant. He was a sexualized deviant.

But whenever he was the minority, well, he was peaceful and he would preach tolerance and religion and peace.

So if a Muslim is going to be faithful to the text of the Quran, I would rather they never, ever, ever get a foothold in the nation because once they get a foothold in the nation, they're gonna grow.

And I'll speak to this just to edify the people. And this has nothing to do about the book that I'm talking about, but that's fine.

The only two ways in Islam to be saved is either to die in jihad, to be dying as a fighter against an infidel, to die in combat or to settle an infidel's land, a kafir's land and to populate.

So if you travel outside of Islamic lands and you start to have families and start to produce and start to procreate, those are the only two ways you're guaranteed salvation in the

Quran. And I know this because there's a Hadith that talks about Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr was a lieutenant of Muhammad and Abu Bakr was asked, how do you know that you're gonna be in paradise?

And Abu Bakr, this is a friend of Muhammad. He said, I would not believe that I'm in paradise if I had one foot in paradise.

And this is because they have no mechanism for salvation. They have no assurance of eternity, which of course as a

Christian, we do. We've got, I'm sealed by the blood of the lamb. I'm sealed by the Holy Spirit. And so I can trust

Jesus because he says that I am saved. He says that those who are given to him, he will not lose.

And I know that the Bible says in Titus chapter one that God does not lie. The Quran by contrast in Surah three says that Allah is the greatest of deceivers.

So we don't serve the same God. It's a completely different religion. I don't have anything against Muslims worshiping, but you have to be vigilant because as soon as they start growing in numbers,

I mean, look at Minneapolis. There's a bunch of Somalis in Minneapolis and that doesn't look anything like Minnesota.

And you have to understand the effects of demographic change and mass immigration.

And of course, Islam is not the only religion of Satan.

You're typical, and I'm not speaking for the entire denomination because there is a remnant of believers, but your

United Church of Christ denomination for the most part is a religion of Satan. Your unitary and universalist church denomination is a religion of Satan.

And every Christ rejecting synagogue is a synagogue of Satan.

So we don't want to act as if this is the one group that has earned that title.

In fact, this country is far more dominated by leftists who are professing

Christians than Muslims. Leftists who support having your child, even prepubescent child, sexually mutilated, castrated through surgical and pharmaceutical methods without even your consent.

In fact, I think if a parent gave consent to that, they should be in prison along with the physicians and so on that were involved in that.

But there are leftists who are professing Christians who are on the forefront of fighting for a woman's freedom to murder her baby in the womb.

And even after it's born, if it is born quote, quote, accidentally during an attempt at an abortion, you have all kinds of nightmarish, horrific things that even

Muslims look at and say, my goodness, this is a religion of Satan.

And these are professing Christians. I have to emphasize the word professing. So it is something that is a shock to the consciences of 21st century individuals who especially are living in a country like the

United States where they've known nothing but religious freedom. It's a shock for anyone who may recoil in outrage and disgust at the very thought of religious freedom having any limitations at all.

But it's interesting how many of those same people are liberals who without question want legal limitations put on us who are

Bible -believing Christians. I'm sure there are many liberals and leftists. And I would say this would be more in the arena of leftists because it is a different phenomenon.

Liberalism is not leftism necessarily. But there are leftists who would love to see parents in jail for homeschooling.

So you could go on and on and on with that comparison. Let's see here.

We have a listener who was actually an aforementioned guest that I announced earlier who was a guest of mine recently defending

Christian nationalism ironically as a progressive dispensationalist pre -millennialist and pre -tribulationalist.

His name is Pastor Doran Ray of Union Baptist Church in Ahoski, North Carolina.

He has a question for you. He says, could you comment on this statement?

And he has this statement in quotes. I have no idea where he got this statement. But it says, it seems a great many

Christians would be fine with the nations coming to Christ and worshiping at his throne as long as no

Christians are involved with it happening. That's an interesting comment.

And he wants to know your assessment of it. Yeah, my first assessment is that it's sarcasm.

And with that, I think that there's a lot of Christians that say that they follow

Jesus, but then they don't want to actually live out on earth because they're just a passing through, this world ain't their home, that kind of thing.

And so they're so heavenly focused that they're of no earthly use.

And very often there's a contradiction in their logic and theology, because many people view post -millennialists as working their way to establishing a

Christian nation as if the deeds and activities of men create new hearts in the population.

And the irony is that you have very often Arminians accusing

Calvinists of this. Calvinists don't even believe that a man's will is a part of his salvation, other than the fact that God changes the will of his elect by giving them new hearts.

But Calvinist reformed Christians do not believe that man innately can do anything to please

God, which would include coming to him and saving faith. So it's ironic that these people would be charging post -millennialists with that, who in the majority are reformed.

But anyway, I interrupted you. You could continue on with your comment. Yeah, I mean, it reminds me 1

Corinthians 3, I have planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. If God wants me to die,

Romans 8, 36, 37, I am led like a lamb to the slaughter to the glory of God all day long.

I just watched my dad die a vicious death to stage four cancer. I mean, he looked worse than people that I've seen overseas in combat.

And his last words was, his grace is sufficient. You can't tell me that my dad didn't fight in the arena for Jesus.

He didn't run the race and finish the race to God's glory. And if God gave him that, and that's where he was at, amen.

And there's other people that died peacefully in their sleep at age 94. So I don't know how long

I have here, but I do know that Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians to do everything, whether word or deed to the glory of Lord Jesus Christ.

And I know that I can plan. I know that I can think about, you know, saving money for my grandkids.

I know that I'm gonna leave here, you know, after your show and go find something to eat.

Like I know I can think about stuff. God gave me a brain. He gave me the opportunity to engage his creation.

And I know lastly, if to live as Christ, to die as gain, I've got whatever time he gives me to work for his glory, not for my salvation, not for my salvation.

That is 100 % the work of the spirit. That is not me at all. I contribute nothing to my salvation.

And so if he's got me here, he's got me here on a mission. And I believe that mission is the great commission and that is get to work.

And so I'm gonna, you know, by his grace, try to do all things that I can, whether that's thinking differently and searching the scriptures and figuring out how

I can apply my talents in a way that I haven't thought of before, because our God is a creator

God. He's creative. I think that's well in hand. I think that is all implied in the task.

And so there's a lot of people, it seems to be going back to the pastor's question, that there are people that want everyone to come to Christ.

They just don't want Christians to be part of it. And what I'm getting them from that is that the subtext is that Christians can't participate in that.

And that's where I want to cut a very fine line because I'm not the one that's doing anything.

I'm working. And if God decides to bless it, that's him and he gets everything.

If, however, I'm working and he doesn't bless it, to him be the glory.

I guess it's just how it is. And so I don't believe that Christians are going to force the world to come to Christ.

I do believe that because Christ is good and most importantly, he's zealous for this.

This is what he wants. Because this is what Christ wants. He's going to be creative.

He's going to be working through his body, doing things, preaching the gospel, serving, loving.

He's going to be doing those things. And by Christ doing that, the world will come to obey.

And you won't be able to plan it. You won't be able to figure it out. You won't be able to track it as it's happening because it will be like a mustard seed.

It will be slow and steady to grow, but it will eventually increase and increase throughout the entire creation.

Well, Pastor Doran, you have also won a brand new free copy of the book that we are addressing today by our guest,

Christian Nationalism is Inevitable. And that's good news. Make sure you give me your full mailing address in Ahoski, North Carolina and CVBBS .com,

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service will ship that book out to you at no charge to you or to us. Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania wants to know, can you clarify what you mean by a

Christian nation? Because after all, Christians do want to be in the midst of a mission field that disagrees with them theologically.

How else are they going to evangelize and lead the loss to Christ if they are not in their midst?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I would also remind that Deuteronomy 6 says that we should teach the scriptures to our children so I can evangelize to generations by keeping my home.

But I agree that we should be in the mission field. What I mean by a Christian nation is a nation that's built on Christian ideas,

Christian precepts. And that's what I talk about. Chapter 5, I talk about the common law. The common law has over 1000 years of usage, tradition,

Christian experimentation at governance, starting with Alfred the Great. And before him, there was some people in Wessex and Northumbria before him trying to establish government based on Christian ideas, based on the

Bible, based on the gospel. Alfred the Great was just the most significant. You've got the

Magna Carta in 1215. You've got the great remonstrance. You've got, what was it?

The Magdeburg Confession. You've got Christians throughout the last 1500, not 1500 years.

Yeah, probably 1500 years close to it where they're making attempts at bringing government into comport with Christ.

And it's over time. It's not bit by bit by bit. And we get a lot of things wrong.

We get a lot of things wrong. But the effort is to pursue Christ. And where I think that America is a

Christian nation, you look at the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence. All of them,

I mean, one of them was a Catholic. And other than that, you had a couple Unitarians, maybe one

Quaker. Other than that, they were Presbyterians. They were Congregationalists. They were Baptists.

These are people of confessional faith that had different denominations, but they all agreed on the authority of Scripture.

And they all agreed in the Lordship of Jesus Christ. And that one unifying thread was what they did whenever they installed common law as the law of the land.

And that's your Seventh Amendment. Most people don't know what the Seventh Amendment to the United States Constitution is.

Go read it. It talks literally about common law. Go read the Article 6,

Section 3 of your Constitution, where all judges are sworn to the supreme law of the land.

Law of the land has a specific usage and definition. It's not case law.

It's not precedent. Go look up a Black's Law Dictionary and go look up law of the land.

To that matter, look up common law. These are Christian ideas. They've been thoroughly vetted over a long period of time.

And that's exactly what our founders gave us. So I speak to that in Chapter 5 whenever I talk about America the

Beautiful. By the way, you mentioned the Magdeburg Confession. My friend

Matt Trujillo, who's been a guest on this program, has had that translated into English for the very first time.

And every Christian who cares about a

Christian identity remaining in existence in any fashion in the United States should get a hold of that.

You can get it at magdeburgconfession .com

And I thank Matt Trujillo for making that available in the English language through his ministry.

It was mightily used of God to prevent the Roman Catholic Church from completely wiping

Protestantism off of the landscape of Germany. So a very important document.

We're going to our final break right now. If you have a question of your own for my guest today, please try to submit that as quickly as possible, because we are rapidly running out of time.

Once again, the email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We'll be right back after these messages.

Do not go away. James White of Alfenbega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

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We're now back with the final segment of our interview today with my guest,

Jaron Jackson, on Christian nationalism. We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, the

First Amendment provides that Congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting its free exercise.

Are you a constitutionalist? And if so, how could that possibly be reconcilable?

Yes, I'm a constitutionalist. We need to understand civics. And I'm not trying to say that he doesn't understand civics.

When the Constitution says that Congress shall make no law, an enactment of Congress is not the law of the land.

And this is where I would encourage people to go look the definition of law of the land. It literally says an enactment of Congress is not the law of the land.

And so the Constitution is the law. Congress is granted power as a trust indenture by the people.

So we, the people of the United States, we're the ones that created the Constitution. The Constitution then creates the

Congress and grants Congress powers. Congress then writes statutes. And those statutes are to govern those who are in contract with the

Constitution. Well, you and I aren't in contract with the Constitution. We're we, the people. So we, the people, can exercise our religion freely because that's a power that we reserved to ourself.

And a reserved power means the government can't effectuate that idea.

And so I can practice my faith because I'm made in God's image. I'm his image bearer.

This is the declaration. All men are created equal and endowed, given by their creator, certain unalienable rights.

You can't put a lien on a right and you have the right to freely worship. So when the Constitution speaks about the

First Amendment and Congress shall make no law, the people didn't give the

Constitution the power to grant Congress the ability to legislate religious affairs.

And you also see this Article 1, Section 8, where there's 18 enumerated powers of the

Congress and regulating religion is not one of them. So, yeah, no,

I completely am a constitutionalist and I don't see any, I don't see any,

I don't see any conflict. From a Christian perspective, first of all, everything that I just explained to you is marinating in Christian presupposition.

That of a republic, which the government is open to the people. That of the common law, which is literally predicated on the truthfulness of Christ rising from the grave.

That's a 100 % Christian tradition. And I would even say that rights, people get this confused.

Our rights, if you look up the definition of rights, it just means the power of free action.

So whenever Christ says all power is given to me, go therefore and make disciples.

That's where your rights come from. That's the power that Christ gives the church to go fulfill the

Great Commission. Go obey me. Go make other people obey me. And that doesn't mean to compel them.

It means by dying to ourselves, by picking up our cross daily. And so, no,

I don't see any conflict there. In fact, as many people might not know, right here in the

United States, we have states that at one time here in America had their own official religion.

Virginia was officially an Anglican state. Massachusetts was officially a

Puritan congregational state. Maryland was officially a

Roman Catholic state. So a lot of people don't even realize that. So I'd like you to summarize now what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding this topic.

The most important thing is the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's God's power to save. And I believe that whenever Paul started the book of Romans, which is really where we understand what

Christians believe, that's Theology 101, he bookends it, Chapter 1 and Chapter 16 with a call to obedience.

Christians are to obey our King. He has saved us through his shed blood on the cross.

By doing that, Christ wants the world redeemed. That's his objective.

And I believe in a victorious gospel. I believe that the gospel is so powerful and so awesome and so victorious that it won't be stopped.

And I admit there's times where I say, I don't see that happening, God. I can't see that happening.

And that's just where my faith needs to increase. But what I would want people to understand is that not to divide with your brother or sister, but to bring it back to the scriptures.

Isaiah says, let us reason together. And in this case, the Christian reasons with the scripture and the conclusion is the gospel is true.

The gospel saves. And Christ wants to conquer all creation through the gospel.

Amen. And we're out of time. If you want more details on my guest, go to jaron .podbean .com.

Thank you so much for being such a superb guest today, Jaron. I look forward to having you back on the program.

I hope that many of you listening order his book, Christian Nationalism is Inevitable. And that's good news.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater