Mormon Argues With Christian (audio)

How you doing, man? Merry Christmas. Some basic teachings of the LDS Church, in comparison to the Bible on the inside.

I'm good, thanks.

Are you LDS?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, they're for you.

Thanks.

The Missionary Approach to Mormonism

Things like, do you believe you're going to come to God one day?

Yeah, I was a missionary.

Yeah.

So as a missionary, what did you do with, like, texts from the Scriptures that teach that there was no God's form before God, none after Him?

Well, I actually worked with refugees.

Okay.

So we really didn't get into a lot of doctrine.

It was more about converting...

I mean, you personally.

Converting them to believe in Jesus Christ.

Which Jesus?

Our brother.

Satan's brother?

If you're just looking for arguments...

No, I'm sort of like... Example, like Paul. Like, Paul went to the synagogues to prove that Jesus was the Messiah. He went to the Areopagus, and...

I actually, I come to pick my father up. He works at the temple.

Cool.

And I usually sit in the car. I was just curious what you were doing. Because I've been out here many, many years, enjoying the lights, and, you know, there's people that are anti, and it just kind of detracts from the experience.

So I was just curious. When you say anti-Mormons, so like a Christian like myself that loves you guys and has a burden to share Christ with you and the true Gospel...

Do you have a lot of Mormon friends?

Yes.

I've seen lots of Mormons actually come to Christ out of Mormonism as a result of this kind of ministry, personal relationships, things like that. But say, for example, like for me as a Christian, how would you approach me as a Christian who has a burden for you?

You went on your missions. Obviously, you're zealous.

You care about people.

A Christian that has a burden for me?

Yes, for Mormons.

Okay, well, it wouldn't be for me, your burden.

No, it definitely is.

I care for you as a person,.

As an image-bearer of God. This church is led, I believe, and you can steer me in the right direction if you believe I'm wrong. I believe the church teaches you a false God and false Gospel. Joseph was a false prophet.

That would be what my contention is. But here's what I was getting at. When you were a missionary, you went and gave the account of the First Vision.

Correct.

So you approach people on your first lesson with Joseph's First Vision account where he says that God told him join none of the churches because they're all wrong, their creeds are an abomination, their professors are corrupt.

Well, I actually have studied a lot of religions. I study Hebrew right now and Arabic. Awesome. And I spent 20 years studying Buddhism. So, I mean, I'm pretty, you know, open-minded into what's out there and being tolerant to other people's beliefs.

The First Vision and the Claim of Apostasy

And that's why it just amazes me that us being Christian brothers, how it'd be like me being a Muslim and going to a mosque and kind of handing out things which are...

Well, that would kind of beg the question, wouldn't it? Because, well, how would you say that I'm a Christian if Joseph says that God told him that I'm corrupt, my creeds are an abomination?

I think you're getting hung up on wordage rather than the spirit.

What does it mean that my creeds are an abomination?

Rather than the spirit.

What would that mean to you? Explain that to me. That God tells Joseph the creeds are an abomination, the professors, that's me, are corrupt.

Well, I think the emphasis behind it was there was an apostasy.

Right, so how can I be your brother if I'm part of an apostate church?

Well, Lucifer's my brother, he just fell away.

Well, you are implying brother in Christ.

Absolutely.

So we share the same God?

We all have the same Father, thus makes us brothers.

Well, I don't believe that God was once a man who became a God one day.

Whether you're a Jehovah Witness,.

Whether you're a Mormon,.

Whether you're a Catholic, we're still brothers.

So Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, do you believe that?

I don't get hung up on the labels. You know, I look at you. If I was out on the street and I saw a homeless man, I wouldn't go up and say, you know, are you a Jehovah Witness or a Catholic? Because if you are, I can't help you because I'm Mormon.

Well, I don't believe in that in the sense of us helping one another and loving one another.

That's a different story.

But I think the greatest act of love that I can show you is to show concern for you and to come here and to tell you that this church is teaching you a different God and a different gospel.

Me as well, that's why I got out of the car.

I know, and I genuinely appreciate that. Genuinely do.

Because I usually will be studying my language tapes right now,.

But I thought it was important.

And I know what it's like to study Hebrew, too. So, yeah, it's a piece, man. Well, I mean, the big point...

What's your name? Jeff.

Jeff, my name's Sean.

Hey, pleasure to meet you, man.

Pleasure to meet you.

Jesus Christ, the Only Way, and the Problem of Other Jesuses

Well, I would ask, say, for example, we talk about Christ. Jesus says, and I know you'll agree with this, I'm the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me. So, he says he's the only way to the Father.

And yet, Paul warns in 2 Corinthians 11 that there are other Jesuses, other spirits, and other gospels that can't save. So, for example, the Muslim you brought up. He doesn't believe that...

He says Jesus, that they revere him,.

But he doesn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Yeah, and he doesn't believe he died or rose again. But that's not Jesus, is it?

It's not the Jesus that I know.

It's not the true Jesus?

Yeah.

If he's not the Son of God, he didn't die for sins, and didn't rise from the dead, then that's not the Jesus that you would accept.

Well, I think it's no different than you and me seeing someone, and we may look at them differently just because of our experiences.

So, if I said to you, he's not...

He's a good man, and I may say, no, he's a bad man.

I saw him do this and that.

What if I said Jesus is not the Son of God, and he didn't die for sins? You wouldn't refute that?

If you said that, I wouldn't agree with you.

So, it's not Jesus, is it?

Oh, that's my dad right there. The Jesus that I know is the one who was born at Christmas, and we celebrate his birth, we celebrate his death.

He's Satan's brother. He's one God among many gods. He's the physical offspring of Elohim and one of our goddess mothers. The Jesus of the Bible is the creator of all things. John chapter 1 says, without him, nothing came into being.

That's come into being, that he created all things, including Satan.

You're very well versed.

He's not his brother. You're very well versed. Well, I would encourage you to just, if you want, take this.

I would encourage you to also to feel the spirit of Christmas and to understand what people are doing here when they come with their families, to see the lights and to think about Christ.

Which Christ? Satan's brother?

Once again, I'm not going to get into semantics.

Well, it's an issue. For example, your name is Sean.

Yes.

If a police officer came tonight and I said, I met a guy named Sean. He's a 7-foot tall black dude. He's about 300 pounds. Name is Sean. He's wearing a blue vest and some nice pants and black shoes. Would I be identifying you?

As well as you know.

So you're a black man, 7 feet tall, 300 pounds?

If that's how you saw me, then yes.

So truth is not objective to you.

It's relative.

Well, it's based upon our knowledge, and it's based upon our awareness, and it's based upon our experience.

What knowledge?

Our experiences, which are different.

So if I experience that sex before marriage is a good, holy thing, is that a good thing?

That's your experience.

Okay, so is it true, though?

I can't contest your life, your journey.

Is it true? Can I steal?

That's between you and God.

But what does God say about it?

Well, that's about something. I would love to talk to you, Jeff. My dad, he called to pick him up.

Truth, Moral Authority, and God’s Standard

Well, I would encourage you with love, Sean, to think about the fact that this church teaches a different God and a different gospel, and if you have the wrong God and wrong gospel, you have a God that cannot save and a gospel that damns you.

I appreciate it. There's a better way to talk to Mormons than this type of experience.

Well, I'll rest, thankfully. Sean, I'll rest, thankfully, on the many Mormons that have come to Christ because of this. God bless you. Merry Christmas, Sean. Have a good night, man.