August 17, 2021 Show with Bill Potter on “Exposing the Lies of the 1619 Project Fraud”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday, on this 17th day of August, 2021.

And at the very enthusiastic urging of my very dear friend,

Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, who is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, and also at the enthusiastic urging of his wife,

Becky, I have invited on the program today, for the very first time, Bill Potter, who received his

BA from Cedarville College, his MA from the University of Dayton, and his

PhD from the College of William and Mary. He's an author, a conference speaker, and chief historian for landmarkevents .org.

And today, we're going to be addressing Exposing the Lies of the 1619 Project Fraud.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Bill Potter. Thanks, Chris.

I appreciate it, and I appreciate the kudos from the Moorcrafts, who are dear friends. Yeah, wonderful folks.

And everyone who listens to this program regularly knows full well that Dr.

Moorcraft is one of my favorite guests, which is made evident due to the high frequency of my interviews with him.

Well, first of all, tell our listeners about Landmark Events, where you serve as chief historian.

Okay, Landmark Events is a company that provides history tours and history teaching for Christian families by going to the places where history was made.

We do a lot of domestic tours, and also Ireland and Scotland and England when they're open, which they aren't at the present moment.

And we teach from a, you might say, a biblical worldview, providential perspective, and that kind of sets us apart from other groups, as well as the fact that we teach at every place that we go.

And we do maybe 12 or 13 tours a year, and still coming up this year, especially

November, is the 400th anniversary celebration of the pilgrims in Plymouth.

And that will be a sort of a landmark event in a very real way, a week before Thanksgiving.

But that's what we do. We go to the places where history has happened, and we look for the providence of God and his hand in our history, and in all the history that we cover, whether it be battlefields, museums, or historic homes.

Now, when you say that you view history through a providence perspective, I'm assuming, being a fellow

Calvinist myself, that you're talking about God's foreordination of all things that have ever occurred and will occur in heaven and on earth.

Indeed. That is the bedrock of our theology, in a way, the sovereignty of God.

And what we're looking at oftentimes are just the means that God has used to fulfill his purposes in history.

We look at the past, we see his hand, and we study the various means that he used to accomplish his will.

And so that is a very real part of the way we approach our study of history. Amen. In fact,

I can think of no other fact of God's sovereign control over all events of history that gives me comfort during the greatest of trials that I have personally experienced in my own life.

So, to know that everything comes from his foreordination is a great comfort and should be to every single believer.

Oh, it is a great comforting doctrine. I agree. And it's amazing that anyone would view our understanding of that to be preposterous and even ugly and depressing.

And it even drives some opponents of Calvinism to go to the extreme of saying, a

God like that, I will never serve. That runs chills up my arms and my spine when

I hear. No, they're serving their own God. That's right. Amen. Well, I'm going to give our listeners right now our email address.

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. If you have questions for Bill Potter regarding our theme, exposing the lies of the 1619

Project Fraud, please give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say your family or your church is promoting the 1619 Project Fraud.

You don't feel comfortable at this point identifying yourself as being in opposition to them or anything like that.

We understand that you would be compelled to remain anonymous. But if it's just a general question on history, on the specific subject of the 1619

Project, on theology, general questions, please include your first name, at least your city and state and country of residence.

Oh, and although I intend to repeat this website later, for those of you who are interested in investigating more about landmark events, go to landmarkevents .org,

landmarkevents .org. Bill, we have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Before we enter into the main theme of any discussion on my show, if I am interviewing a first -time guest, we always have that first -time guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, including what kind of religious atmosphere they were raised in, if any, and what kind of sovereign or, should

I say, providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them, and that would include you.

So if you could give us an abbreviated testimony of your own journey to Christ. Sure, be happy to.

I was born into a family that was a very devout Bible -believing

Christian family. I was raised in a church that was actually founded by my parents and five other couples who abandoned a liberal church and started a

Baptist church that was deeply devoted to the Scriptures and to the sovereignty of God and to the doctrines of our faith, and I was taught them from probably before I was actually born.

And so I was raised hearing the gospel my entire life. I frankly don't remember a time in my youth when

I didn't love Christ, but I made a commitment, I guess

I would say now, a repentance and public profession of faith in Christ when

I was around eight years old or nine years old, and from that time forward was never out of hearing or participation in the means of grace, in the preaching of the

Word of God, prayer, sacraments, and the faithful attendance at our church.

Over the years I have changed my views on certain things, and I'm a

Reformed Presbyterian, but my family, my parents, my grandparents, all of my first cousins and aunts and uncles, my brothers and sisters, my second cousins, and even back maybe five or six generations

I haven't found anybody that wasn't a believer. God has been very faithful to our family.

In fact, some of my lines I have back 13 generations that we can really confirm the biblical faith of our ancestors.

So God has been a real covenant God to our line, and my prayer, of course, is that our eight children and 22 grandchildren follow in the faith as we are faithful to present the gospel to them.

But that's the thumbnail sketch. Yeah, in fact, I was raised

Roman Catholic, and after I had become a born -again believer, after the

Lord and His sovereign providence guided me to a Reformed Baptist church, where I eventually very quickly collapsed on my knees and cried out to the

Lord for salvation and came to, after a couple of months, even embrace

Reformed theology. After this had occurred,

I found out that my ancestors on my father's side of the family were

Baptists in Norway, and they immigrated in the late 19th century to Brooklyn, Rhode Island, and Virginia.

And I had discovered that many of my relatives, especially in Virginia, are still

Baptists. So it was kind of an interesting providence to discover this after I was a believer, and it really warmed my heart.

Yeah, that's very exciting. Yeah. I have heard, if I'm not mistaken, from our mutual friend

Dr. Joe Moorcraft, that your ancestry even includes a martyr who was a

Covenanter Presbyterian. Yeah, so I'm a kinsman of the

Reverend James Guthrie, who was the pastor of the church in Stirling in Scotland.

He was the second Covenanter to be martyred by Charles II, the first being the

Marquess of Argyll, and the second being James Guthrie, who refused to recognize the

King of England as the head of the church. And he was willing to die for his faith, and he was very stubbornly held to biblical doctrine, and was a tremendous man.

Great influence on his generation and on the history of Scotland. Well, we've got to do a program on that in the future.

If you enjoy yourself today and you want to return, God willing, let's have you back to discuss that very subject of your ancestor and the

Covenanters in general. And aren't you writing a book on this? Yes, I'm still in the process, after a number of years of writing a biography of James Guthrie, there isn't a good one.

I'm just a couple of brief ones from the 19th century, and I've been working diligently until recent, the last year,

I've been working diligently on completing a biography of him. Now, how did you develop such a deep affection and enthusiasm for history?

Well, I would say that very early in my life, when my father was building our home, we lived with my grandparents.

I was in the first grade, and my grandfather had a trove of photographs, and it turns out we had a family member who was a photographer all the way back into the 1840s, which is really at the beginning of photography.

And we had a collection of family photos that went back that far, and I would compel my grandfather to sit and go through each picture and tell me stories about these people, some in uniforms, some with gutted deer hanging up in a tree and rifle over their shoulder.

I wanted to know who they were and how I was connected to them, and it really piqued my interest in history.

And then even when I was in the second grade, my best friend came home from vacation with a stack of Civil War centennial postcards with soldiers on them, and I grabbed those and I never looked back.

And I've been studying military history ever since, along with everything else, and I knew by the time

I was in the sixth grade that I had a great sixth grade teacher, and you can't underestimate the power of a really excellent teacher.

And I decided in the sixth grade that I wanted to be him. And so from then on,

I was determined to be a historian wherever God would direct that interest, and my parents supported me in every conceivable way.

And one of the reasons I went to Cedarville College, or two reasons, they had a four -year grant to play basketball, but they had a great history department, which was the number one thing that I was looking for from a

Christian perspective. And from there to graduate schools that were not in the least of the same faith as I, but I pursued the study and teaching of history for about, well, it's going on 45 years now.

Praise God. I would love it if you or some very knowledgeable and gifted historian,

Christian historian, would write a biography of the man who lived in the building

I am sitting in right now conducting this interview. This is the former parsonage, 19th century parsonage, of a

Presbyterian pastor here in Carlisle, George Norcross, who was the very first pastor of Second Presbyterian Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, which was created due to a church split from First Presbyterian Church, because Second Presbyterian Church was an old school

Presbyterian congregation, and they had left First Presbyterian, which had become a new school

Presbyterian Church. And from what I have learned, I just have learned a little, but from what

I've learned of this man, he was quite fascinating. And his brother -in -law was a missionary to the

Native Americans, planted over 100 churches, and actually rescued

Eskimos from a famine by being the first to import reindeer from Siberia to Alaska in order to rescue these

Eskimos. And Time magazine lists this missionary as one of their top 10

Alaskans of history. This is the brother -in -law of Reverend Norcross. But I would love for somebody to pick up that project and do a thorough biography.

Oh, what a family. Yeah, wow. Well, we are discussing a very controversial issue today, and I've gotten a lot of enthusiastic responses from those who have heard about this interview

I'm conducting with you on the 1619 project fraud.

And if you could, first of all, tell us about this 1619 project.

What is the significance of the date, and why was this project launched? Okay. Well, the creator of this project, the one who has the main writer of it, is a journalist of the

New York Times. Her name was Nicole Hannah -Jones, and she gathered together a group of Black writers, journalists, historians, and other sociologists to write articles that conform to the main thesis, or the main aim.

And she stated it this way, this project aims to reframe the country's history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of Black Americans at the very center of the

United States national narrative. And in so doing, every aspect of the project has to make the data and the content of the writing conform to that aim, and that is to rewrite

American history based on, really this is a practical outworking of another theory called critical race theory, and that's even a bigger subject.

But this project is designed to be put in the hands of millions of people, especially school children, so that the actual, what they call the narrative of American history, up until this point is totally erroneous, and it's part of a tool, a power tool, in the toolkit of white supremacists who have spent their life oppressing other people.

And so this is to right that wrong, to rewrite American history, and have it be based on race.

So that's the larger picture of what the project is about, and some of the, it was published in the

New York Times Magazine, and there were 16 different writers, and they've also turned this, which includes a lot of fiction, and ironically,

I think, in my opinion, much of the reported history is also fiction, but it includes poetry and all sorts of other types of literary writing, and it's designed to be put into curriculums, to be put in the hands of, as they say, everybody from the lowest elementary grades through college, and it has been adopted as the narrative of American history by hundreds of schools across the

United States. And one of the ironies of this project is that these things actually have been being taught for 40 years.

This isn't something brand new. This is the project that's brand new, but the idea, the ideas behind it and the origins of it have been around for quite some time and have been being taught.

Well, now it's out in the open with a literal curriculum based on critical race theory and other critical theories that go along with this new post -modern approach to the past.

Of course, it involves destroying the past as it now exists and the interpretation of it, and then going forward with a whole new way of looking at American history.

And if you look at some of the works that are involved in it, they have titles like America Wasn't a

Democracy Until Black Americans Made It One. That was written by Nicole Hannah -Jones, the journalist.

American Capitalism is Brutal. You can trace that to the plantation. Another one is

Why Is Everyone Always Stealing Black Music? I think there should be anyone who loves black music should be very complimented, not that it's being stolen, but that it's being imitated.

I happen to love a lot of music that would be categorized that way, including especially the older black gospel music.

Oh, yeah. Well, it goes on and on like this. They call it cultural appropriation, and it covers a wide swath of popular culture.

A New Literary Timeline of African American History, which is a collection of poems and stories.

It could go on and on. And a lot of it is actually of historical interest, and is part of what is taught in typical

American history courses anyway. But these are taught instead of other things.

These are really the center. Keith Lehmann on Reverend Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition speech.

I'm sure one of the most important documents that any American could ever read. And so it goes.

It did not happen overnight. It isn't something that was made up in the fevered brow of a

New York Times journalist. These ideas and the background to this came from things that have been produced in the past.

Other books, other movements, and they've come together in the 1619

Project. Something interesting that came out pretty quickly, there were five or six really preeminent

American historians, which included James B. McPherson, who's sort of the

Civil War studies in American history, and several others of his caliber.

And they came out with a real strong criticism. In fact, could you pick up right where you left off there, because we have to go to our first break right now.

Sure. But this is very important, so don't forget where you left off there, because I've got to hear more about this.

If anybody wants to join us with a question of your own, send it to chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. We'll be right back with more Bill Potter, right after these messages. Hi, I'm Phil Johnson, host and executive director of Grace to You, the media ministry of John MacArthur.

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Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Avino, and thanks for listening. And that was the 1689

London Baptist Confession of Faith, not the 1619. Some decades off.

But anyway, we are interviewing today Bill Potter, who is the chief historian for landmarkevents .org.

We are discussing exposing the lies of the 1619 Project fraud. If you have a question, send it in to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your name, city and state, and country of residence. You just before the break,

Bill, were starting to introduce to our audience some historians who negatively responded, pushed back as it were, on the 1619

Project. And from what I understand, a considerable percentage of them are even correctly identified as liberals.

Yeah, I think probably all of them that wrote the letter to the New York Times would politically be considered liberals.

And let me give a little bit of a timeline here too to put them in their proper context. The 1619

Project came out in August of 2019, and there was a reason for that.

It was the 400th anniversary of the landing of the first Africans at Jamestown, Virginia.

Now, I live in Virginia, and I've taught Virginia history and have studied Jamestown for many, many years.

And in 1619, three things happened that year at Jamestown. One was, it was the founding of the

House of Burgesses, the representative government in the New World. And also, a shipload of young ladies arrived that year also to help perpetuate the existence of the colony.

They forgot to bring women with them when they came originally and suffered tremendously for that oversight.

And in 1619... They forgot? What a thing to forget.

Well, they remembered when they arrived. The first Africans were landed, and more about that later.

But the idea behind it is that these were the first slaves to be brought to America.

They were the opening wedge of the slavocracy that was going to dominate the

American colonies over the next 100 or more years, etc. And so they chose 1619 as the project title to commemorate the arrival of first Africans and the introduction of slavery into America.

Now, the critique of the project was published in December of 2019, so from August to December.

And the critique that came as a letter to the Times was from a small coterie of academic historians who are really at the top of their game.

Gordon Wood, James McPherson, Sean Willens. McPherson and Willens are both

Civil War historians, among other things. Victoria Bynum and James Oakes.

I also, I read an article that stated that they had invited a couple of black scholars, historians, to join them in their protest.

And what they called strong reservations about the factual inaccuracies in the 1619 project.

And that none of them joined them at that time. And the article, the point of the article was that what they said was, we agree that there are factual errors in the project, but this project is absolutely necessary to right the wrongs that have taken place over the years, or something to that effect.

So they were acknowledging that much of the information is false, or at least a substantial percentage of it.

We've got to use it to right wrong. But the idea of it is so important and necessary.

And they didn't want to have their names associated with a critique of it.

And then in May of 2020, on May 1st, Hannah Jones was given the

Pulitzer Prize, and their project was given the Pulitzer Prize. Much to the protest and dismay of many other historians and those who are really concerned about the interpretation of American history being as accurate as possible and as free of political cant as possible.

And that is not, that did not happen. And so they received the amount of errors.

But an interesting article that was published shortly thereafter in the Atlantic, the title, let's see,

I might even have the title here someplace. While you're looking, I'm going to announce our email address again.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence only remain anonymous if the question involves a personal and private matter.

Have you found what you were looking for? I didn't find it, but I remembered it. And it's something to the effect that the problem is not with the facts.

And by using that as the headline, they instantly marginalized those historians by saying, nobody disagrees about what happened, nobody disagrees about the facts, but it's actually how those facts are interpreted.

Now, in a certain sense, that is true of historians.

They choose the facts they want to choose, and they present the interpretation that they believe is the most accurate.

But by using that headline and saying that we all agree on the facts, they completely eviscerated any critique of the project.

And the problem is, one of the problems is that we don't agree with the so -called facts.

The whole 1619 group of Africans, the

Ndongos from Angola that arrived, the Bantu -speaking people that had been attacked and seized as war captives and taken to the shores of Africa by African tribes that were warlike and sold slaves for a living, and sold them to the

Portuguese or to the Spanish. They ended up on a Spanish ship. I think they were originally sold to Portuguese because Angola was ruled over by Portugal.

And these particular Africans spoke Portuguese, and they had Christian names. In any case, they were taken off a

Spanish ship by some English privateers. And there are all kinds of problems with that because King James had come to the throne in England, and he had declared that there would be no more privateering against Spanish shipping.

And the kidnapping of, or the taking of those Spanish ships that they hoped had gold and silver, and they actually had 20 -odd

Africans instead, huge disappointment, and also a frightening occurrence because King James had recently beheaded

Sir Walter Raleigh for the very crimes of what

King James now declared to be criminal activity, attacking Spanish fleets. He wanted peace, and he did not want the

English causing international incidents. And so the two English ships that were involved in capturing the

Spanish ship were stuck with 20 prisoners they didn't know what to do with.

And they brought them into, they operated out of Jamestown illegally. They brought them into Jamestown.

They went to the governor. We don't know what to do. And he said, I will take them off your hands, which he did.

And in the course of however many next few years, those

Africans were indentured out to plantations along the

James River and the York River. And a plantation, of course, is just a replanting of a culture.

It doesn't mean a huge farm that has hundreds of slaves or anything like that.

It's really the replanting of one culture from one place to another. And so that was the origins of the word plantation, and that's how they thought of it.

And so they were indentured. And 90 % of the people at Jamestown were indentured servants. And these

Africans were indentured also. And most of them worked off their indentures and became free.

And none of that appears anywhere in this 1619 project.

And it's interesting. There's a very fine book on the subject.

A young man decided to trace his genealogy, a young historian. And he's white.

And he traced his genealogy back and he found that he was descended from these Angolans.

And his name was Tim Hayshaw. And he wrote a book about his searching for his ancestors and what he discovered about the first African Americans.

And it's called The Birth of Black America, the First African Americans and the Pursuit of Freedom at Jamestown.

And almost all of them became free. And in fact, one of them that became free enslaved one of his fellow

Angolans as a slave who ran away.

And he sued in court and got him back. But these Africans, these

Angolans, intermarried with local people. Some married white, some married fellow

Africans, some probably married some of the local Native Americans. And just blended into the fabric of the colony.

Like everybody else that worked off their indentures and were able to buy land and become productive members of the colony.

And so that was sort of the fate of that first shipment. And in, you know,

Virginia jurisprudence, you don't find any real specific references to African slaves or special laws for slaves until around 1660.

So for, what's that, 40 years, this first ship that arrived with Africans, most of them become free.

And he was able to trace their families down to modern times and discovered among their descendants, both

Union and Confederate generals, and all sorts of interesting people that are descendants of these first Africans.

And some of the very first Americans that settled in Texas were some of these same people.

And they even, because they were cattlemen back in Africa, they even brought some of their cattlemen vocabulary with them to Texas.

You know, the word, for instance, the word doji was the Ndongo word, the

Bantu word for calf. Yeah, in fact, Joe Morecraft told me that. Yeah, that's right.

So anyway, this, taking the 1619

Africans who came, they were enslaved, they were slaves to the

Spanish, but they were taken by these English privateers. And they were sort of in a no man's land until the governor took them off, took them off his hands and kind of parceled them out around the colony, just like they did any other indentured servants.

So that fact is never mentioned. And in fact, just the opposite.

And so much of this alleged historical data that is used is actually the opposite of what actually took place.

Not in every case, but certainly enough to do this project as being historically credible.

And as I said before, it also, it was nothing, it didn't happen overnight, as far as the creation of this project.

And it's a perfect illustration of the application of critical race theory, you might say, in a very practical manner in teaching history.

And it does come, it does have a history that goes back to the 1960s. In fact, let's pick up right where you left off there.

So I don't have to interrupt you in mid sentence, we have to go to our midway break right now. And if anybody has a question, and there are some waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But if anybody wants to get in line and ask a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state and your country of residence.

Please be patient with us, folks, because this midway break in the show is always the longer break on Iron Trip and Zion Radio because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, is required of the FCC to localize this program and all of their programming geographically to Lake City, Florida.

They do so by airing their own public service announcements and other local things during the program.

While they do that, we are globally heard commercials simultaneously.

So please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the information as you possibly can provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

Now, I would love it if most of you could purchase our advertisers' products, use their services, visit their churches, support their parachurch organizations.

But when you can't do that, please, I'm urging you, at the very least, simply respond to our advertisers to thank them for sponsoring

Iron Trip and Zion Radio. That is, if indeed you love the show. You don't want it to disappear.

We absolutely positively depend on the funding that comes through our advertisers to exist.

I know some people complain about the number of ads we air on the show, but I'm sorry, folks, we need these advertisements to exist.

The donations that come in, as much as we love them and need them and appreciate them, there's not enough of those donations coming in to fund the show on their own.

So we need our advertisers. So please keep our advertisers happy and also send in your questions to Bill Potter on the fallacies of the 1619

Project, chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. We'll be right back with Bill Potter after these messages don't go away.

Hello, dear ones, my name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I are frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the

United States. We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, September 30th through Saturday, October 2nd, on the theme,

Christ is supreme over all. I'll be speaking there along with over 20 other speakers, including

John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Voddie Balcom, Joel Beakey, and James White.

For details, visit g3conference .com. That's g3conference .com.

Please join Chris Arnzen and me September 30th through October 2nd at G3 2021.

This is Justin Peters reminding you that Christ is supreme over all. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, or maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ, today and always.

Here's what Gary DeMar, President of American Vision, had to say about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time. I have to tell you, I'm one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself.

Tell your friends and loved ones about Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m.

Eastern Time, at ironsharpensironradio .com. Hi, this is

John Sampson, Pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the

Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key doctrines of the

Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the

Internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift, or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com,

where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped, and how he shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship, and how to worship

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or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Like Church of the

Shoals. Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations, theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see how

God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally, as well as locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth .org.

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Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net. Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa on Iron Sharpens Iron.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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You need to read. Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And please never forget, folks, how incredibly valuable and vital solid -ground -books .com

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barring a financial miracle from God, of course. So please visit solid -ground -books .com

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today, purchase generously, and always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before I return to Bill Potter, we just have a couple of important announcements to make. If you are a man in ministry leadership, whether you are a pastor, an elder, and by the way,

I believe those are the same office, a deacon, a parachurch leader, no matter what leadership you have in the body of Christ, if you are a man, you are invited to my free

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio pastor's luncheon this September on Monday, September 27th, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

My guest speaker this fall is renowned evangelist and the man that I believe is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet earth, and I'm not exaggerating,

Dr. Conrad M. Beyway, pastor of Coboata Baptist Church of Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and founding chancellor of African Christian University.

If you'd like to attend this free event, send me an email to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. Not only will you be fed physically for free and be fed spiritually for free by a great message,

I'm sure, from Dr. Conrad M. Beyway, you're also going to be leaving that event with a very heavy sack of brand new books personally selected by me from major publishers all over the

United States and the United Kingdom, enough that every man in attendance gets his own copy.

So you'll be leaving there with dozens of free books, and they're all going to be excellent books.

I wouldn't be selecting them if they weren't. All of this is free. My late wife, my precious late wife,

Julie, in the 1990s, came up with this idea to treat my pastor friends to a lunch.

At that time, it was a Christmas lunch, and she didn't want anything sold there.

She didn't want a hidden agenda, an ulterior motive. Everything was to be free to bless ministers of the gospel to a time of rest, relaxation, refreshment, and fellowship over a great meal with a great guest speaker and free books.

I know pastors, especially Reformed ones, love books, especially if they're free. So if you are in that category of being a man in ministry leadership, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. Once again, that pastor's luncheon will be on Monday, September 27th, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at the Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Also, folks, all of you who have been praying for my oldest brother, John, 76 years old, in a skilled nursing facility in Denton, Texas, who was sadly given a very grim prognosis of having at best six months to live.

He has critical stage emphysema and cancer. On top of that, he has

COVID, and on top of that, his dear wife, my sister -in -law, Jan, has COVID and pneumonia.

Please pray for them. Please pray for salvation. I have a lot of reasons for hope now that my brother

John is truly regenerate. I obviously don't know that for certain, but he is giving very promising evidence that he is trusting in Christ.

So, please continue to pray that he continues to bear fruit in that direction, and that I can be completely confident that he is heading to be with his

Savior for eternity. Also, pray for his physical healing, that he may have more time on this earth to share the gospel with his family and enjoy his family.

So, thank all of you who have been praying. I will continue to keep you updated. Also, if you love this show and you do not want it to disappear, please go to irontreppanzionradio .com,

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Please, folks, always remember that I don't want my listeners siphoning money away from what you would be regularly giving to your own local church where you are a member in order to give to Iron Treppanzion Radio.

I started this church—I'm sorry, I started this show, I should say—I started this program back in 2005 with a very key reason, or at least a part of the key reason, was to bless the local pastor and local church to be a friend, a platform, an extension, and a helping hand to the local pastor and the local church.

I never wanted to harm the local pastor and the local church in any way, including financially, so please don't take money away from your regular giving to your local church in order to give to us, and please also don't plunge your family into further financial peril by giving to us if you are indeed struggling to survive.

Those two things are commands of God in Scripture, providing for church and providing for your family, providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of Scripture, but if you're financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, you have money in the bank collecting interest, you have money for recreational purposes and trivial purposes, and you love this show, you don't want it to disappear, please go to irontreppanzionradio .com,

click support, then click to donate now. Also folks, if you want to advertise with us, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line as long as whatever it is you are promoting is compatible with what we believe.

I would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we are in really urgent need of your advertising dollars.

We have been hit really hard financially because of the coronavirus pandemic hysteria.

Many people in our audience have been hurt by their local governments and the federal governments.

They have either lost income or lost businesses, some of them perhaps even that have been owned by their families for generations because of the exaggerated response by those in authority to the pandemic.

Many people in our audience have cut out giving out of necessity or cut down on giving, so please help us replenish that which was lost.

Go to irontreppanzionradio .com, click support, then click to donate now. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a local bible -believing church, please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. I have helped many people in our audience all over the world find churches near where they live, sometimes even within minutes from where they live all over the globe, and I may be able to help you to find a church, whether it's for a permanent church home or if you're going on vacation somewhere or if you need to find a church for a family friend or loved one.

I have extensive lists spanning the globe. I may be able to help you find a church. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest today, historian

Bill Potter, on exposing the lies of the 1619 Project fraud.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Do you have anything that you'd like to say to pick up where you left off before I ask a listener question?

Well, I wanted to say that this idea of the 1619

Project is actually the fruit of historians who were being trained or teaching in the 1960s, and not just historians but radicals of various sorts.

The book by Charles Hamilton and Stokely Carmichael, Black Power, really sets out the, you might say, the philosophy behind the idea that whites by definition have instituted institutional racism so that it can't be, it can never be completely obliterated and it'll go on and on and on because it's institutional.

And then other radical ideas that are, some of them absolute nonsense and others with a grain of truth that it's blown all out of proportion.

And the other thing I wanted to say is perhaps the most influential historian of the

Marxist American history coterie is

Howard Zinn, and his book, A People's History of the

United States, has sold three million copies, is promoted by college professors, knowing that most of it's nonsense, but it has become the core of curriculums in high schools, and it's almost laughable if you know anything about American history when you read it.

There's a very fine book entitled Debunking Howard Zinn by Mary Graber, published by Regnery, and they're coming out with another book by her entitled

Debunking the 1619 Project. Oh great, I've got to get her on. So that'll be out in the next month or so.

Her name's Mary Graber, G -R -A -B -E -R. Oh, I've heard this promoted, perhaps even by Dr.

Moorcraft, but also I'm almost certain Gary DeMar. Oh, probably so.

Debunking Howard Zinn is a very fine, very fine book, and I'm looking forward to the

Debunking of the 1619 Project. I don't agree with her 100%, but she does lay the axe to the root of the tree.

And there's another book called Before the Mayflower, if you want to see some other 1619

Project reference materials. There's one by LaRone Barrett, or Bennett, rather, a journalist for Ebony Magazine, a 60s radical, and he's sort of been the inspiration.

He wrote the book Before the Mayflower. So there are some other things along that line.

And before we're finished today, I want to give you one anecdote that goes back to my college days.

Do you want to give it now so you don't forget before I go to any listener questions? I will. I'll give it now.

When I was in college as an undergraduate, I had to take a course, gun to my head, on psychology.

And Professor Jack Scott was the professor. This was at Cedarville College, now Cedarville University.

And he had been an army psychologist in the Korean War. And his job was to interview prisoners of war that were repatriated from North Korea.

And one of the things that he discovered, and he wrote up for the U .S. Army, was that when they were captured, when

American soldiers were captured, they right away separated the officers from the men.

And then when they approached the men, not so much the officers, but the privates and corporals, they divided them again.

And they divided them based on if they had a strong religious faith.

They knew that it would be very hard to brainwash them and propagandize them.

If you know anything about Korean War, the North Koreans were really the worldwide specialists in brainwashing, or what was called brainwashing then.

I don't know what the modern term for it would be. But the other thing that he discovered was that men in the army who did not know

American history were turned easily. And they were given a whole new narrative of American history by the

North Koreans. They were told that American history is the story of the oppression of minorities, of black people, of Indians, of women.

And that is the core narrative of American history. And that was pounded into them.

Using examples from each of those types of oppression, there are always stories and individuals that can be pointed to as being wicked and evil, and having committed atrocities against various other people,

American people. But the whole tenor of American history is one that is a downward arc of more and more oppression, and that they needed to abandon that horrible country and join the people's paradise in North Korea.

And a number of men did it. And what was discovered was that they were really the ones who didn't understand

American history. They hadn't paid attention. And they didn't know the pit from whence they'd been dug.

They didn't know that, you know, the arc of America was towards more and more freedom. And this whole institutional racism was a myth and a lie.

And they were the easiest ones to propagandize and to brainwash. And that was the discovery from the

North Korean torture during the Korean War. And that's the one thing

I came away from that psychology class that I've never forgotten. And now the narrative is the narrative of American history promoted by the

Smithsonian, and by the federal government, and by the schools. Amazing.

We have a question from Cindy in Findlay, Ohio.

You've already mentioned some valuable resources on this issue for adults. But Cindy asks,

Please forgive me if my question has already been addressed. With three grandchildren today, under the age of four,

I missed the first part of the show. My question is this, what resources, which are geared toward elementary, middle and high school students, respectively, are available that would correct the errors of the 1619

Project? Thank you for this enlightening interview, Mr. Potter. Thanks for another great show,

Chris. Okay, I'm not an expert on the current publishing of materials that specifically address these things.

But my answer is that they need to be told the truth. And it's likely that a grandparent actually has learned a good deal of truth about American history.

And I would turn to some of the standard Christian history publishers.

Anyone from Bob Jones to Rebecca to Gary DeMar publishes some very, very good history,

U .S. history books that address these things. There are a number of very fine resources for elementary level students that still teach, teach from both a

Christian perspective, and one that's Christ honoring, and at the same time, tells the truth about American history.

So I would go to some of the standard Christian publishers and just tell the truth.

You don't even need to counter, you know, counteract necessarily what's out there in the popular culture.

The truth will win out if you tell it to the truth. Well, thank you, Cindy. Keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in Findlay, Ohio and beyond.

We have Johnny in Queens, New York. He says, Sorry, I jumped on today's program a bit late.

The current cultural and political climate has given credence to this atrocity, or should

I say atrociously, poor piece of ideological indoctrination.

The 1619 Project is terrible as legitimate history and is taken as gospel truth of America's founding.

How can Christians and history students be equipped to discern terrible scholarship and false history?

What tools would you recommend for true students of history to discover what is true history?

Of course, you've already covered some of that, but any other words of advice that you could give to Johnny in Queens, New York?

Sure, I would go back to some of the primary sources written by the

Founding Fathers. One of the devils in this story is

Thomas Jefferson. Even the Constitution, the

Declaration of Independence are now considered part of white oppression of minorities.

In fact, the National Archives has a racism task force for the rotunda.

They're going to try and reinterpret the structural racism of the founding documents.

But I think that a cursory examination of even the Bill of Rights, for instance, dispels much of what's being purported to be so -called structural racism.

But go back to the Founding Fathers and read what they wrote about why they seceded from England, why they broke away and declared independence.

They were very forthcoming and forthright in what they said about why they did what they did.

So when it comes to the founding, and of course there are many really excellent books on the subject that are still in print and that have been used for generations in examining that period.

Not every historian is going to agree on every point, but the general theme is self -evident in the primary sources, but also in some of the more modern works on the founding of the nation.

There's lots of really good stuff, not all written by Christians either, but from God's common grace.

There's a great deal of great historical writing and it's quite a bit available out there.

Thank you, Johnny. Keep listening and keep spreading the word about Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio in Queens, New York and beyond.

We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, are not these history revisionists doing a great disservice to the many true and wonderful African -American heroes that we can learn about by introducing falsehoods as if this was necessary?

Oh, that's a really good point. And a goodly number of Black historians and even social activists have weighed in on these issues.

There's a book entitled Red, White, and Black, subtitled Rescuing American History from Revisionists and Race Hustlers.

And that's written by the senior editor is Robert L. Woodson, and all the other authors are

Black historians, including Shelby Steele and Clarence Page, who's a liberal.

They've come out with a book of essays on that very subject.

And they are doing a great disservice because a lot of the

Black heroes of American history, from inventors to military men, to poets, they get a great twist in the teaching of American history and have been for, well, have been for 50 years since I've been studying history.

It's not like they have been left out or are excluded. So it is a great disservice.

And they have eliminated some of those people. Some of those people soon choose to read up from slavery.

And other things by even great

Black abolitionists during the 1850s and 60s pulled down their statues.

What is the reason for that? Well, all revolutions try to start history over again.

And in order to do so, they have to completely eradicate the past. Look at Cambodia and the

Khmer Rouge, and China, Red China. One of the first things they did when the

Communist Chinese took over China in their revolution was to change the street names, to get rid of all the names of past Chinese heroes and historical figures.

They finally just began destroying the graveyards. They tore down the statues, the memorials, and then they turned on the graveyards, tear down gravestones that memorialized the past because they're starting over again.

You know, the new Communist man starting year zero, as they tried to do in Cambodia.

And of course, along with that was the bloodbath of millions and millions of people. But it's sort of a revolutionary imperative.

The French did it, the French Revolution, the Russians did it, the Russian Revolution, the

Chinese, the Cambodians, the Cubans. Another destruction of the past is starting over with the new

Soviet man, or whatever. So revolutions tend to annihilate the past, even those who would otherwise perhaps seem to be sympathetic to their cause.

But starting over again, getting rid of the old, as Chairman Mao said, the old way of thinking, the old people, the old history, all have to be done away with.

You know, I find it remarkable, I probably have mentioned this on my show before.

But Cassius Clay, the great heavyweight, who became a member of the

Nation of Islam in the, I believe it was the early 60s, when he did that.

He adopted the name Muhammad Ali, because he said he no longer wanted to go by his slave name.

He wanted to abandon his slave name, Cassius Clay. And the thing that is amazingly absurd about that is that Cassius Clay was a 19th century emancipationist who worked for the abolition of slavery in Kentucky, of all places, where Cassius Clay was born and raised himself.

And I'm speaking of the latter Cassius Clay, I'm speaking of Muhammad Ali. And I would have to think his parents named him that after that great emancipationist.

And I'm baffled as to how he could not know that, or if it didn't matter. But anyway, really, really strange.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York.

And CJ asks, when these so called historians who are a part of the 1619 project are confronted with specific fallacies, what is their response?

Is it only stone cold silence? Do they give excuses? Do they say that those correcting them are lying?

Is it a combination of all these things? I find this absolutely mind boggling. The absurdity of it is mind boggling, for sure.

I can give you one example. After those historians wrote the letter, really criticizing the project for putting ideology before historical understanding,

Jake Silberstein, the editor of New York Times Magazine, defended the accuracy of the 1619 project.

But in March of 2020, the Times issued a clarification, modifying one of the passages on the role of slavery in the

American Revolution that sparked controversy. And what it sparked controversy is they said that the

American Revolution was all about saving slaves and preventing the

English, the British, from emancipating the slaves. And what they do is they change one word, and they say some people, or most people, they use a qualified, they exchange an absolute word for a qualifying word to try and step down the radicalness of their previous statement.

So sometimes, in some cases in the 1619 project, they made quiet modifications based on the criticisms.

But the central core of it is, stays the same.

Doug Wilson wrote something interesting, where he says that while he's dealing with the whole idea of critical race theory and the project, he says, relativistic postmodernism has morphed into an absolutist cult.

That is, an absolutist conviction that every form of hierarchy and privilege is evil on the face of it.

This is simply assumed, never demonstrated. It is their foundational presupposition. Thus, things that are stated that simply aren't true are part of the ideology.

They are probably true, or they would be true if. And that's the same as they're true when it comes to, you know, these types of arguments.

In fact, it's been declared that logic now is part of white supremacy.

And so logic is no longer valid in discussing these things. It's absurd to stand.

That makes absolutely no sense. So you're saying that if you are a person with more melanin content than Caucasians, that you think illogically?

I don't even understand. Well, I think the vast majority of American people not only don't understand it, but don't, wouldn't hope to, if it could be explained to them.

I see recent arguments have been, critical race theory is something they teach in college, and you wouldn't understand it.

And when some of these guys are confronted on, like, talk shows and on television, that's their response.

This is something we've been teaching for years, and it's on the college level, and you're really not, you really can't, the average layman can't understand it.

These theories are for experts. And a lot of people are just put off by that. They're intimidated by professional historians, or journalists, or whoever's shouting the loudest in the street.

Yeah. One thing that perpetuates all of these lies is a failure to recognize the universality of total depravity.

People of every skin color and ethnic group and national origin are sinners and deserving of hell.

And there are bigots amongst all of us. And to claim that certain people are exempt from that because of the color of their skin, often accompanied by the lie that only people who have authority and power can be guilty of bigotry.

If you are a Christian, you cannot believe that, because obviously the

Jews were amongst the most persecuted people on the planet Earth, and yet the

Apostle Paul seriously rebuked the Judaizers for their anti -Gentile bigotry, even though the

Gentiles had enslaved and persecuted and slaughtered and tormented

Jews for centuries. That did not give Jewish Christians a license to treat them differently.

Am I making sense here? Oh, yes. And there are other,

I mean, we could really give a pretty keen biblical analysis of the various problems that are in common, or that come along with these theories.

And one is, most of these guys and ladies don't believe in objective truth.

And for the Christian, we have a standard. We have a signpost of objective biblical truth.

That's why math is racist. We have something to weigh these things against. They don't.

And so they're adrift in a sea of relativity, as Rush Dooney used to say.

And it's coming out in this, what was relativistic postmodernism has now become an absolutist sort of thing.

Okay, we have to go to our final break, and pick up where you left off there. This is going to be a much more brief break, so if you have a question, send it in immediately to chrisarensen at gmail .com.

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Okay, thanks. What I was going to say right before the break was we've gone from authoritarianism in the educational system, which tells you what you're not allowed to say, what you can't say.

We've gone to totalitarianism in the educational system, and beyond in business and government.

Totalitarianism, according to Theodore Dalrymple, who made this point, I think rightly so, they tell you what you have to say.

And as Orwell said, two plus two equals five. And that's what you have to say.

You have to say that girls can be boys and boys can be girls, or whatever it is in the general popular culture.

And the 1619 Project is just one subset of a larger war against Christ and against the idea of objective truth, and certainly the biblical and Christian history that has permeated

American history. And it's not just this project. A book came out recently entitled,

Forget the Alamo, the Rise and Fall of an American Myth. And it's in the same predictable 1619

Project style. The central piece of the book is that the

Texan War for Independence for Mexico was waged to protect slavery and enshrine white supremacy.

And this is a 400 -page book just on that subject. But one thing we haven't talked about is, other than on an individual level, what can

I do for my own children or grandchildren, is that you can also have any public influence in your local school boards.

I mean, we homeschool all of our children all the way through. And so we haven't had any contact whatsoever with the public school system.

But for those who do, and those who are still trapped in the public school system, they need to speak up at their local school boards and elect people who understand what's going on and are willing to take a stand.

Now, in Texas, that's what's happened with this particular book. The lieutenant governor came out and called

Forget the Alamo a fact -free rewriting of Texas history. And Texas historians debunked it altogether as a polemic posing as history.

And so there are those who occasionally will take a stand, usually not on state level like that. But locally, certainly.

And with the 1619 Project becoming the American history curriculum in so many schools that people need to know what it is and people need to stand up and fight against it.

I know some states have banned it. I think four or five states have banned the teaching of critical race theory.

Well, they've been teaching it in those schools in those states for 40 years. I mean, you know, banning it now, it's not going to change all those teachers who are trained in all those education schools and believe that that's what history is all about.

So it's going to take a lot of pushback. But for the average

Christian family, you need to be teaching the truth at home. And children need to understand that this is part of a larger war that has continued since the beginning of time.

And this is the permutation of it in our generation. And, you know, the world of our children and grandchildren is going to be very, very different from the world in which we live now.

And they're going to need to learn to stand in the day of battle.

And, you know, things like this curriculum ought not to be a part of a

Christian family's study in any conceivable way. We have

Christopher from Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says,

I know that there have been quite a number of pastors and theologians who previously were trustworthy, it seems, and agreed on much of the things that I'm sure you and the host,

Chris Arnson, believe in regard to Reformed theology, but who somehow, nonetheless, caved in to adopt and even lead the charge promoting the woke movement.

Have there been any people of note who have otherwise conservative theology and doctrine who have swallowed the 1619

Project, whether they really believe it or not, and are promoting it? Well, I think that there are, but they aren't people that I read or that are in the circles that I'm interested in pursuing.

I hear about them from time to time. But it's never been that way in the history of the

Church. Whenever there's been a crisis, and whenever there's been a majority of popular culture flowing against the

Church, there have always been compromisers. It's nothing new. It'll probably continue to the second coming.

But the false suns within her pale are going to step out and compromise.

It's always been that case. So we can expect it to happen and to continue to happen, and people buying into the woke culture and the new permutation of postmodernism as we see it in the study of history.

Well, Bill, I already know that I want to have you back again frequently on this show.

You've been a real blessing to me. If someone desires to have you speak at their church, at their school, any other venue, how would they go about that, and what specifically would you do on any given number of presentations on different themes?

Well, it depends on what it is. I have hundreds and hundreds of lectures

I've been teaching for more than 45 years, and they just have to drop me a line on my email address, which

I'm not fearful to give out over the air. It's billpotter .historian at gmail .com.

I speak at Father and Son retreats, at history conferences, all sorts of venues and occasions.

So they just have to drop me a line and start a dialogue. So I'm happy to travel and happy to teach.

Great. Well, I want to remind our listeners also of the website for Landmark Events. It's LandmarkEvents .org.

That's real easy to remember. LandmarkEvents .org. Thank you so much, Bill, for being such an extraordinary guest.

I look forward to your frequent and soon return to Iron Trip and Zion Radio. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write.

Don't forget, if you're a man in ministry leadership, send me an email if you'd like to attend the Iron Trip and Zion Radio Pastors Luncheon featuring

Dr. Conrad Mbewe on Monday, September 27th, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the

Bongiorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater