Episode 3 - What About Those Who Have Never Heard?

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00:03
I mean we're looking at a man built by God and it shows. I appreciate
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God building me. That's always a good thing. I appreciate God building you too. It's nice to be here again.
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The way you did it. And you're a threat. I'm a threat? You're a threat to many people including apparently
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Josiah and I need to hear the story. Yeah. Let's get this over with. Let's just go ahead and humiliate myself in front of everyone.
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Alright. I was, this was many years ago. I'm going to say if I had to guess this would probably be 2013 would be my guess.
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Was I in college? I don't think. Yeah man. That's eight years ago. Okay. Yeah. That was eight years ago.
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You know we have the Sog MMA ministry here at Witten Baptist. Teaching people to fight.
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We call it fight for the mic. Okay. I was very worried that this story just happened where he just went off and absolutely on the street. No, no, no.
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It's not that bad. It's actually worse than that. Let me explain. Worse than that? Do I? Just hold on.
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Everybody has a breaking point. So we do Sog here and that's where we teach people to fight. We fight for the mic so we can share the gospel.
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Well, I was teaching Andrew who came to me and asked me and a couple other people if I could teach him how to box.
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He didn't really want to do MMA. He wasn't really interested in ground game or kickboxing but he asked me if he could teach him how to box. I'm like, sure,
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Andrew. I can show you. Well, we trained, man. We were at the youth house and we trained for like, I'm not kidding you, a couple hours.
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It was like three people in there. It was intense training. Andrew, being the man that he is, was sweating so much it was almost flooding the room.
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I mean it was that much. It was bad. I am a sweater. Yeah. You're putting work in.
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That's how it shows. Sweat equity. Let me teach you. Oh my goodness. That was awesome.
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Let me teach you how to spar. He's like, okay, man. I'm like, look. Stick out your left hand. That's a jab.
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Okay. Stick out your right hand. That's a power. Alright. We started sparring. I'm taking it light on him.
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I'm like, jab, jab, jab, little body shot. May I add to just one quick thing? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so what he told me was, now, remember,
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I've never sparred before. He says, alright. This is band nerd Andrew. He's never sparred one time before ever.
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I've never done this before. He goes, alright, man. I need you to go no more than 60%.
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Yeah. So in my head, I'm like 60%. That's more than half.
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I don't know what that is. Apparently, because as we continue the story, you're going to see. So he says 60%.
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I'm like, sure. That sounds great. Now, for everyone listening, 60 % is just barely more than half.
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Well, meathead Andrew hauls off. Built by God. Right. And the massive traps and delts go in motion.
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And with all his might and the little knowledge he has in the past two hours, throws that right cross, lands directly in my eye socket.
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Notice I said eye socket. Goes into my eye socket. My contact lens falls out, lands on his glove, and I am taken aback.
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And I'm just like, dude. And he goes, dude, I'm so sorry. I'm like, dude, don't be sorry. You hit me.
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That's what we were supposed to do. You want me to try 65 %? I think afterwards
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I said, how about a good 25 % flow spar? Because he knocked just the crap out of me.
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It was. I have to admit, I felt kind of good. I was like, oh, I just like almost knocked
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Josiah out. And I was like, oh, no, I just almost knocked Josiah out. I hope we can still be friends after this.
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I think if we hadn't had gloves on, I probably would have tasted the ground. I feel like that makes you better friends.
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I feel like closer to a person when I have punched them in the face or vice versa. I can't say that's my measuring rod.
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It's not a measuring rod. It's a measuring. It's not the measuring. It's a measuring. It's a measuring. Now we know there's mutual destruction if we ever got in a real fight.
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We would both feel some pain. So we're like, hey, let's just be cool. And there's respect built on that. Who was it that hit?
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Someone hit me in the spleen or something. I can't remember what it was. Sorry, did you just say someone hit you in the spleen?
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Yeah, we were sparring. I don't want to have too many spleen shots. It's right here.
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It's a secret technique. There are liver shots on the right side. That's what it was, because I guess I was going too much.
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And then they went, boom. And I was like, can you tell me? Show us on the doll where the spleen is.
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The doll. OK, so the spleen is right about the middle of the cup right here.
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If I do, if my anatomy and philosophy. That would put you at like right here. We'll have him teach that in the next class.
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Show us your spleen strike. Welcome to the
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Point Taken Podcast, a podcast where we make and take spiritual and biblical questions.
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And as you know, chat it up. Chat it up. My name is Hunter Wilson. I am the host of this beautiful podcast where we have all punched each other in the face, except apparently for me and Andrew.
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I'm sure you've never punched each other in the face. We grew up punching each other in the face. Many times. Well, you've never punched.
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I am new. I am. Technically, I'm still new to the pack here. So, you know, new to the pack.
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This was. I just I disagree. Thirteen. I disagree. No, no, no. I mean, like me and Hunter have never had the opportunity to literally punch each other in the face.
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Oh, man. OK, you're going to punch me in the face after this. I don't want to punch you in the face.
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It's a pact. Oh, great. This is Josiah Shipley. Pastor Josiah Shipley. Right here to my left.
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How are you doing, Pastor? I'm doing well. Glad to be here. These are fun. They really are, by the way. I enjoy it.
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It's been a long time. It's been a little while since we've recorded. This is Andrew Cook, built by God.
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The the only punched Pastor Josiah in the face one time guy. Music minister, band nerd, gamer and jock who can punch.
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And jock. And jock. Yes, I definitely played sports. Oh, yeah, he knows. He knows how to sport.
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Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who. Ever listen to Lonely Island? Yeah. Do you know what
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I'm referencing? Do you? No, no idea. We like sports and we don't care who knows. No, that is a song that you would love and that I need you to look up.
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All right, deal. You need to do that. We have our homework. I'll look up Lonely Island. You punch him in the face and we're good.
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And that's a pact. And if you back out of it, everybody knows. OK, because we can't edit that out either.
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No, you're not. I am the king of email forwards. I can do whatever.
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He said, I own this. I edit whatever I want.
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They're just edits of us just saying just the most heretical things ever. I will release. You have heard of deep fakes, right?
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Yeah. OK, so I can just do that because, you know, I could just. I doubt you can't pull off deep fake.
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Can you pull off a don't don't underestimate my power. I can do whatever I need to do. All right. OK.
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Yes, sir. Yes. Yes, sir. Done. I thought it would be nice because we are a
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Christian podcast. To do deep fakes? No. Oh, OK. All right. We've moved on. OK, we've moved on.
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Got it. I thought it'd be nice if we mentioned something in our spiritual lives this week that either we realized that we need to be better or that we just we just messed it up.
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You said you had something or was that the good? Did you have something good? Well, it was good because God taught me out of it.
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So, yeah, sure. There we go. There we go. We'll start with you. I'm ready. OK. We read this this morning for the opening scripture in service.
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Brother Andrew always asked me on Mondays, hey, what do you want the opening scripture to be? And it's almost always based off something personal, personal study, something
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God illuminated me that week, whatever. And a lot of times, you know, for obvious reasons, when bad things happen, we ask the appropriate question of why, which is totally natural and fine.
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Now, in the in the weeks after that, where sometimes we and in this case me fail is not accepting the answers
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God gives to that or being impatient with his answers to said questions. And then
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I remembered what I have taught others many times. And maybe
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I'm different than others. God has never audibly spoken to me. He speaks primarily through his word.
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Mm hmm. And I came across a passage I read a while back, and this spoke to me greatly.
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And those of you who are part of Witten probably know the event I'm referring to and asking why.
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You know, when we lose people we love, so on and so forth, when negative things happen, we always want to ask that.
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And that's a fine question to ask. The point is, there's none of us are
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God and we don't know. In Deuteronomy 29, verse 29, after revealing 613 commandments in his law at Sinai, 613.
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God said this, the secret things belong to the
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Lord, but that which he has revealed belong to man. So after delivering 613 commandments, he still wanted everyone to know, hey, the secret things still belong to me.
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I haven't revealed everything to you. Then go all the way to the book of Revelation, where in the 66th book of the
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Bible, God has revealed a lot over thousands of years, four languages, three continents, 40 different writers.
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This is what God says, Revelation 15, 3 and 4. And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the
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Lamb saying, Great and amazing are your deeds, O Lord God, the Almighty. Just and true are your ways, O King of the nations.
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Who will not fear our Lord and glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.
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The secret things belong to the Lord right now. But one day he will reveal all of his acts and they will all be called righteous.
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And all nations will come and worship him. The entire universe, spiritual and physical, will all look on everything
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God has done and agree that it was the righteous, good, gracious thing to do. Our job is not to try to make revealed that which
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God has chosen not to reveal. It's to trust he has a plan and he will reveal it in his time, not ours.
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That is how he encouraged me this week. Man. Dude, it,
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I mean, hit me square between the eyes. His righteous acts have been revealed.
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You know what's funny, dude? Is that no longer, no, it doesn't matter how long you've been a
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Christian. Yes. It doesn't matter how much you study, you can read every day. And I don't say that from experience, unfortunately.
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You could read every day and you still need reminders about, you need to be faithful to God.
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You still need to have that encouragement of, hey, remember, I'm still worthy of that. And it's almost like, to that point of reading every day, you think about this, you look at the older writings.
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And nowadays, all you have to do is get on your Bible app and you can click a button and you can see every cross -reference.
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You can see every scripture. The amount of time it probably took for someone to really sit down and study and write all this stuff out and say, this first goes with this, this first goes with this.
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How much time and dedication that we just don't do anymore. Do you think the ease that we have when it comes to knowledge, when it comes to studying
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Bible or otherwise, do you think the ease that we have in it kind of promotes laziness?
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Absolutely. There have been studies that have shown, and this is just going off of that.
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There have been studies that have shown that if you have someone who reads an article on a tablet versus someone who has a physical piece of paper and they read the same exact article, the retention rate is about,
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I think it was between 40 % to 50 % higher on a written piece of paper than it is for digital. Because what are we used to with digital?
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You see it, you process it, you read maybe the first couple. That's why the...
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Push through it. What are the headlines called? Clickbait. That's why clickbait is so big because people will read the first three sentences of a paragraph and say, oh,
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I know exactly what the article says. And then they move on to the next thing. So you're not retaining, you're just looking going, oh,
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I agree with that or disagree with that, and then move on. Versus having to have a piece of paper and sit there and read it.
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You're going to have to comprehend the words, the sentence structure and everything. So yeah, it...
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Would you say the same thing for audibly playing it? Like we have our Bible app where if I left my
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Bible at church or if I don't have that on me or if I'm driving, I can hit play and that Bible app will read it.
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Do you think it's more likely that you're not going to... See, I am, me personally,
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I learn audibly. I don't learn, well, I learn better audible than I do written.
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I don't know the academic terms, but... You're a jock, why would you? Exactly. But then again, think about the accounts
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Jesus preached. These were written, they were written down either after or during the event.
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They were spoken first. That's true. So the word of God was spoken, it speaks. So I would say that probably in order to even get a better enrichment of the scriptures, you probably need to either read it out loud or hear someone read it, especially if you want to get the right inflections and kind of follow the way that the...
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Because I know there's a lot of sarcasm in the Bible. And if you're not reading it... Mostly from Jesus. Yeah.
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That's something different with the Bible though than when you're studying anything else is that the Holy Spirit can speak to you in any way.
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Sure. So, you know, I could listen to Ask Pastor John or I could listen to Voddie Bauckham and I don't even know if that's how you say his name.
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Yeah, that's right. Voddie Bauckham or Bauckham? Bauckham, Voddie Bauckham. I could listen to all that and I could retain bits and pieces, but God can show me things through that or I could read the same sermon, you know what
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I'm saying? And get the same thing out of it because the Holy Spirit's gonna illuminate what he will illuminate.
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But I'm 100 % agree when it comes to the ease that we have in studying like I have so many ways to read the
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Bible. I could literally Google Matthew chapter 7, find a link and read it on any device.
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And not only that, you can get any commentary typically. Oh, for sure. Any commentary. I could hit the videos link and there'd be this person explaining
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Matthew chapter 7, this person explaining Matthew chapter 7. Which is like, I really like them. They're a really good group.
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And or I could get a Bible. I have three different Bible type apps.
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I could do all of that. When with all the ease, there's a lot.
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I just don't. A lot of the times I just, I don't. And I would, I'd venture to bet. I'd love to,
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I'd love to do to kind of that point I made earlier about retention. I'd love to test that out.
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At least around here at Witten is just to say, hey, read this, read a passage you know, like you know it really well.
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Read it to me and tell me exactly what it says. And then do the, do like the physical
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Bible in their hand versus their phone. I'm curious if it would be, if it would be the same type of results to say retention rate is higher or lower.
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I think a lot of it has to do with how easily distracted we are. We're such a instant gratification culture.
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And I mean, all of us, myself included. Whenever I am actually reading the Bible and I'm going to use my iPad or my phone,
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I try to make it a, the first thing I do is turn off all notifications. So what
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I encourage people is if you're sitting in service and you're going to use your
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Bible or your tablet as, my bad, you're going to use your phone or your tablet as your Bible, okay, turn off all notifications.
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And that at least, and it doesn't help with everything, that at least gets rid of the distractions.
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Because look, we're all, I'm guilty of it too. And if I'm here and I'm casually reading my
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Bible, not to really read it, but just to say I did, to make myself feel good for that day, Atlanta Braves, home run,
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Freddie Freeman. Ding at the top, right? CNN, blah, blah, blah, Afghanistan.
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Okay, am I, I'm allowing all these other distractions to not let it speak to me.
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So that's one thing I do to help with that. I think that's a lost, like it's all, it's becoming a lost art of how to study something.
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Yes. I know to answer the original question of what is something we've, something that I have,
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I've been, so I just started my new job and I'm teaching a Bible class.
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Love it. It's awesome. It's so cool. And it's cool to get the kid's perspective because it's different than my own.
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And that's good. It's always good to get their first perspective. So, you know, the other side of the coin, which is what part of this podcast is based around.
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Point taken. Yes. Proverbs, what did we say? Proverbs 17, 18? 18, 17.
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18, 17. I'm sorry. 18, 17. I can't remember. It's a good one. You should look it up,
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Pastor. It's a good one. What does it say? It's fine, it's fine. But one thing that I've been really convicted about with studying is, you know,
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I'm teaching these kids how to study the Bible. And as I'm reading through the material,
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I'm like, you know, I actually don't study this way. So the way they teach it is to observe, to observe it, to interpret it, and to apply it.
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So the observation is literally what does the text say? What is it? What comprehension? What it's talking about?
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Interpreting is taking it into context. So not out of context, but into context.
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And then the last part is how does what I just read, how can I apply it to my everyday life?
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And it's something that I'm just, I've never really been good at it, at least the first part, observing.
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And I love it in the textbook, it says, observing is the hardest part because you have to sit down and you have to read it and actually know what it's saying.
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Tell you the truth, that's much easier to me than point three. The whole application?
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No, the thinking, like intentionally thinking about how can I put this to use in my life?
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Because I will do the observation. I will do the, who wrote it? Who's he writing to? What does it say before?
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What's it saying after? What's the history? And I can do all that studying, but do
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I sit down and say, okay, now that I have that information, what's something tomorrow? What's something right now?
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What's a mindset that I can change? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think that's crucial.
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That's critical. Yeah. So it's just been one of those things that hits me like, oh, if I'm gonna teach these kids how to do this,
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I need to make sure I'm doing it too. So that's been something that's kind of pushing me to go, yes, you need to, with the ample amount of time
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I have to do stuff, I need to do this better. I don't have a lot of time to do it. Yeah, making that time.
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You're up next. Here's what I learned, man. God convicted me about trying to overrule what his opinions, about his, like what he says.
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Uh, I deal with a low self -worth. That's something.
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Me too. Oh, you should punch me in the face later. Oh my goodness. That'll help.
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Andrew. Yeah. Yeah. Help me. I'll be happy. Yeah. But no, that's, that's something that I, I actively work to try and fight the lies and do all that.
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And so, you know, I'm struggling with that and I know, and God's, God's reminding me, this is actually who you are.
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No, no, no. You're finding your identity in something different. Nice. This is who you really are.
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But then I'm saying, yeah, but I've not really been listening to you recently. Yeah, I haven't,
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I've not been reading. I've not been praying. My worship is only real worship when
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I'm doing it for somebody else. And I, you know, I'm doing this. So I'm trying to talk God out of what he's saying.
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So in other words, I'm equating my failure with my worth. And I thought of it like this.
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The difference between a human and a piece of technology.
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So I can take out my phone. Oops, my bad. Take out my phone. You're going to need to move your mic up to your face again.
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There it is. Thank you. Hello. I'm going to take out my phone. You see my little nephews. And in a year, this phone is going to be real slow.
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And this phone is meant to do things at a high speed. It's meant to call, text, search, and all that.
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The second that it stops doing that quickly and it starts to slow down. It will be my phone.
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I will say this is a piece of crap. Ah, this stupid phone. I hate this phone.
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This phone is worthless, right? Because it's a piece of machinery that's not doing its job. And I realized the value of not doing that with a human being.
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That's right. And not treating myself the same way. Man, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing that.
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Therefore, I am crap. Therefore, I suck. I am the worst. And in reality, what
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I'm doing sucks. What I'm doing is immature or irresponsible. And that doesn't change who
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God has made me to be. That's right. Um, and so my conviction wasn't, boy, you sure do hate on yourself a lot.
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It was, boy, who are you to try and put your opinion above mine? And so I was like, man, that's another, just humble.
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Like, when you're dealing with self -worth issues, the last thing you think about is you need to be humble.
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But that's the answer. Well said, man. Amen to that and echo that. That's so true. Because people, self -worth, humility is the key.
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You know, a couple weeks ago, I did one of these. Do you ever do this when you remember something stupid you said or did a long time ago that you had forgotten about it?
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And for some reason, it creeps back in your brain and you quite literally facepalm. Oh, my
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God. Dude, like the past three days, I think I've done it five times. Yeah, yeah. It's my pastimes.
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It's my favorite game to play before I go to sleep. It's just like, oh, my gosh. I wish I could erase that Men in Black style from my own brain.
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Yeah, exactly. It's just a cringe at it. I had one of those from something
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I said to a brother at our church, Brother Paul. I talked to him about it this morning. I'm like, hey, man, something popped back in my brain this week, something
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I said to you about five years ago. And the instant it left my mouth, I wanted to take it back.
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And your facial reaction was all I needed to say. It was too late. You heard it loud and clear. Do you remember this?
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And this didn't help at all. He goes, oh, yeah, I remember that perfectly. Thanks. Appreciate that. Thanks for that.
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But I kind of at least talked him through it. I'm like, man, that was really dumb of me. And you know what he said?
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He goes, yeah, Pastor, but we all make mistakes. And I'm just right there with you. That actually helped a lot, man.
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So yeah, that was one of those facepalm moments. But it was Michael Scott cringeworthy when I kept thinking about it.
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This is Scott Stott's moment. That one is almost painful to watch.
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Oh, no, it isn't almost. It's not almost. Sometimes I do have to skip it if I don't have somebody there. Rachel told me she saw something on Facebook one time and said,
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I've watched The Office all nine seasons five times through. I've watched Scott Stott's once. I've made it three times.
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But sometimes, no, I can't. I remember my wife, we watched that. And she goes,
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I just can't do this. I was like, it gets better. It gets better. We got to get through the rest of it.
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And the lady's like, all these politicians going here promising this and that. But you've actually done it.
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You actually did it. I'm going to get you all computer. You know, you know what's better than intuition?
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Intuition. It's when you can perceive something that's about to happen. Anyone here have intuition? Nope. Just got to say it then.
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I don't have the money. I think that's kind of important what you said, though.
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You had an issue where you had that past memory that was dredged up.
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And you were just like, oh, boy, this is terrible. And where we differ and where we need to not differ, where I need to step up, is you went and spoke to him about the issue.
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I was like, oh, god. Oh, I think if I didn't. I wish it just didn't exist. I think if I didn't, tonight when
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I go to bed, I would still be facepalming people. I had to get that out of my system. Like, hey, man, I'm sorry in case you remember this.
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Because I do. And he goes, yeah, I do. Oh, thanks. Oh, of course. You mean July 5th of 19 -
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Yes, yes. Oh, goodness. Were you going to say 19? I almost did. You almost did. That wouldn't have been accurate.
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1984. Probably four or five years ago. Enough to where I should have forgotten it by now. And I did until last week.
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Your brain never - I never called it either, so. I call it the vault. As soon as you do something you really regret, your brain vaults it.
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Your mind palace. Yeah. Yeah, something positive about yourself. You'll forget you did that. Oh, for sure.
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Oh, for sure. All right. We have, and I'm going to pull it up. Oh, we have a listener question?
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No, no, no, no, no, no. We have a listener question. Yes! Guys, don't forget, if you have a question, we have an
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Instagram page, Point Taken Christian Podcast. DM us. We have an email, listenpointtaken at gmail .com.
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Which is going to be right here. Which is right - Oh, can I do it? Yeah, go ahead. There. Yeah, point it right there.
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Listenpointtaken at gmail .com. You send us in a question. We're just going to answer it. We are the podcast that makes and takes spiritual and biblical questions.
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And chats it up. That's what we do. So send them in. I'm on the wrong email.
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Here we go. That's right. I have like four emails. And some members of the podcast don't have an
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Instagram, but are going to figure out how to get on this one so we can read them. Absolutely. Yes. If for nothing else.
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And DM means direct message. I think everyone knows that. Yep. It's at the top right of your screen. We're just testing it to make sure we all know.
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That's exactly what I was doing. Yeah, just want to make sure. All right. All right. Here's the question. Let me get some water.
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Hold on. Dude, that was so cool. You're drinking water at the same time. Yeah. He's going to punch me in the face.
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I know. I can't. Can you believe it? Keep being in that goofy SpongeBob episode. We're going to be such good friends. He's like,
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I'm going to kick your butt. They're all goofy. Oh, flat. Is that a name? Flats. Yeah, flat.
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Because he's a flatfish. He's a flounder. Here's the question, guys. There are people who live in remote places of the world and have never been visited by a missionary.
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Therefore, they've never heard anything about Jesus and salvation. Since they've never heard of Jesus, what will happen when they die?
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Will they go to heaven or hell? If they don't know anything about Jesus, how can they neither deny or reject him?
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Good question. What about those who've never heard? Who's first? What about that one little island?
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It sounds like a pastor Josiah question to me. Well, I'm good for that, but I don't want to steal your thunder.
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Oh, no, I have no thunder. You were built by God. Oh, my goodness gracious. With no thunder.
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You gave it all to Josiah in 2013. He said 60.
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I did 100 % transfer it. So there we go. This is 60 % of my power.
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All right, I have been given the power of Andrew.
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The look he gave me was like... Let me at least get us started here.
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All right, a couple things to keep in mind. First off, let's get out some of the silliness away.
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And I don't mean to be rude or whatever. Let's just get out some silliness. First off, the Bible was not originally written in English.
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If any of you are surprised by that, go ahead and save yourself the embarrassment now so you don't have to later when you're in front of other people, okay?
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And no, the first Bible was not the King James Bible. That was 1611.
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The first English Bible was Middle English, John Wycliffe, 1380s, okay? So yeah, long predating that.
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We had the Tyndale Bible. That is more than five years. Yeah, two or eight. Yeah, we had the
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Tyndale Bible, the Wycliffe Bible. We had the Geneva Bible. We have a list of English Bibles before we ever get to the
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King James Bible. Okay, my point being is this. When the Bible says, neither is there salvation in any other for there's no other name given among heaven whereby me must be saved.
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If you think the phonetical English letter is J -E -S -U -S, when you read that, you're not seeing the whole picture.
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Okay? When Philippians 2 says, at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
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When Proverbs says, a good name is to be desired than great riches. It's not meaning the phonetical spelling of your name.
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Right. It's who and what that name represents. Can you say that point one more time?
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Absolutely. Because that was extremely critical to your argument. Sure. And I think it needs to be said again. When we talk about the name of Jesus, it is not the phonetical letters
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J -E -S -U -S or E -A -S -U -S in Greek. Otherwise, people would have to know at least one Greek word to be saved.
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Right. Okay, okay. Oh, if it was originally said in Greek, you should all know that E -A -S -U -S. Right. I -O -D -A -Epsilon.
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Okay, Sigma. Okay, we got to know that. Oh, no, it was spoken in Aramaic. We have to know, okay, and then yes, she was. No, it's who and what that name represents.
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When Proverbs teaches us, a good name is to be valued more than riches. It's not that A -N -D -R -E -W.
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Did I spell that right? A -N -D -R -E -W. That's my name. Yes, yes. You spelled it right. It's not that that name is to be desired more than great riches.
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It's who and what that name represents. When I say the name Andrew, everyone listening to this has either positive or negative connotations of that name based on a person that name represents.
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Sure. When everyone hears Josiah, they hear positive and, unfortunately, negative connotations of a person you know named
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Josiah and the good and bad qualities of them. There are names of you listening that you will never name your children because someone you knew from high school that you hated that had that name.
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There are names that you will pick for your children because someone you love or care about had that name and that name means something to you beyond the spelling of the sound of it.
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When we say Jesus is the name above all names, it's not because it's two syllables and starts with a
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J. It's because who and what that name represents is greater than anything or anyone that has ever existed.
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Therefore, let's take it to the other side. That does not mean that someone can have a spiritual experience and, oh, well, that is
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Jesus to them. That's not what I said. Who and what the name Jesus represents as recorded in the
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Word of God is where salvation takes place. Okay, so we got that basis there.
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Right. Abraham believed God and was credited to him as righteous. Abraham knew there would be some plan of God for salvation.
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Moses acted as a mediator. Job spoke about needing a mediator. David knew there would be a king coming from his line that would rule forever.
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David knew people didn't live forever. Okay, so someone from my line is going to rule forever.
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They believed based on the information God had revealed to them at the time. Having said that, let's answer the question directly.
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And if I go on too much, shut me up. Okay, the question was, what about those who have never heard?
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On some remote island, a missionary hasn't gotten there yet. They haven't heard the gospel. What happens to them?
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Here you go. First off, Romans 1 makes it clear. There is no excuse for not believing in God.
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Notice I didn't say a God. Romans 1 says for God. For creation has clearly displayed who
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God, capital G is. Right, and caveat, that is not something that you have to defend when people say, oh, well, that's not enough.
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Because you can quote Romans 1 .20, which is what he was just quoting, to somebody and say, they'll say, oh, that's not really enough.
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That's not really fair. God is the ultimate decider of what is and is not right, what is and is not fair.
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We are saying what he said in Romans 1 .20. What's the scripture?
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Who are you, O man? Who are you, O man, to judge? To answer back to God. Yeah, to answer, yeah. He says it in Job and he says it in Romans 9.
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What's the one that's the clay? That's Romans 9, he's quoting Job. Listen to me when
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I say, and anybody who knows me knows exactly what I'm about to say. Job chapters 37 through 41 are the greatest books in the entire
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Bible, my opinion. They are incredible. Trademarked.
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God, was God built by God? I don't know. God shows you who he is.
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Yes. He just lays down the wall. That's where he lays in Job, right? I am literally reading, and it's just like the hair,
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I'm just like, jeez. Like this is what, who was it who sang, When the
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Man Comes Around? Oh, that's Johnny Cash. Johnny Cash was reading this when he wrote that song, 100%.
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Oh, I love that song. Look it up, Job chapter 38. So let me give an example in the
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Bible to help answer this question. So what about those who have never heard? Because I want to answer it as directly as possible. So God reveals who he is through creation.
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However, the Bible teaches us this here, that anyone who seeks him will find him if they search for him with his whole heart.
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He has appointed the boundaries of the nations where everyone will live, and the times they will live, so that they may reach out to him, though he's really not far from each one of us,
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Acts 17. Cornelius, Acts chapter 10, says in verse 2,
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He was a devout man who feared God. In this chapter,
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Peter comes and preaches the full gospel to him, and Cornelius gets saved. So what's the message here?
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If someone seeks God through creation, through a missionary, listen,
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God can use whatever means he wants. God will send them more revelation.
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God will send them more revelation. We have Cornelius here who is actively seeking the true God, and what does
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God do? He sends him more revelation so he can be saved. Okay, when we see
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Paul go to an island and tell them about the Jesus, and they say, we already know about Jesus. Guys, to get his gospel out,
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God can use a missionary, a dream, creation. He can use whatever means he desires, whatever means he sees fit.
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But if someone is seeking him, they will find him. That's what the Bible tells us. Now, God has always judged people based on the information
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He has given them at that time. So the example of the island of those who have never heard,
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God is not going to be currently, right now, judging them for not showing up to church on Sunday.
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Right. Right. Because He has not revealed that to them. What has He revealed to them? Creation.
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At minimum. When they seek Him through those means, excuse me, when they seek
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Him through those means, He will send more revelation. He will, through whatever means
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He sees fit, to bring His children home. So my short answer, my short answer is this.
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What about those who have never heard? Creation is enough to start seeking
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God. And when someone starts seeking God, He will send them the revelation necessary to bring them home.
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Just like He did right here in Acts 10 with Cornelius. Cornelius feared God. God sent him more revelation through Peter.
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That happens throughout the Bible. Throughout the Bible. And sometimes
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He does it through dreams. Sometimes He does it through, I mean, that, I imagine, is a normal mode
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He uses in, especially other parts of the world. Okay. So there's my short answer.
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And I'd say, remember not to limit God and His faithfulness. Because these are promises.
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These are things, these are, He's laying it out. I have given you what you need to find me.
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If you seek me, you will find me. And He's not just faithful to those who already believe.
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He's not just faithful to people who live in a city. He's not just faithful to people who speak a certain language. So let me answer probably two follow -up questions that are in people's mind that I feel like I didn't do a good job.
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So if your question was, does God give them a free pass? The answer is an astounding no. I meant resounding.
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I said astounding. Well, astoundingly resounding. Yes. The answer is no. But the answer is, for those who seek
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Him, He will send them the revelation needed. And I need no other proof than that, than the book of Revelation.
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It says, in Revelation, I believe it's chapter 14, when all of the remnant are gathered together, is a multitude no one can count from, quote, every tribe, nation, tongue.
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Every tribe, nation, and tongue. To quote you, what does every mean?
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It means every. Oh, wow. So my point being here, my point being here, here,
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I'll just go to it. How about that? Can I go to it? Can I do that? Am I allowed to do that? As long as you're talking in the microphone.
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Am I not talking in the microphone? You're getting closer away from it. How am I getting closer away from it? You don't want to see that 65th percent,
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Josiah, just talking in the microphone. I don't want to see the 66th percent. I will bring the non -existent thunder. All right, let's see.
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All right, someone talk while I find this thing. Hold on. This is just like his Sunday night Bible studies. Hey, hey, you know what?
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Quit saying true things out loud. Well, I would say, I would say this. When you're speaking about the revelation of people who live in remote places, an issue that I find myself having sometimes.
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Oh, thank you. You're welcome. An issue that I find myself having sometimes, unintentionally,
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I tend to limit God's abilities to my own. Yes.
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In other words, I'll say, well, how is God going to get somebody out there?
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You know, or in what way, you know, how is he going to sneak past? How is
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God going to deliver that message? When God, I mean, we're talking about a God who was a pillar of fire, who was a burning bush.
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You know, unless you believe that Moses was high, you know, whatever. We're talking about a
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God of revelation. Can I add to that real fast? Sure. So, think about this for a second.
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God is also the one who split it up. Dude. Tower of Babel.
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I'm going to need you to do something for me. I need you to extend your index finger. I need you to direct it my way.
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I need you to extend your arm. Point taken.
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Thank you. Thank you. That was a great point. Because I was, as y 'all were talking, I was thinking, okay, well, where did we get languages, different languages from?
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Oh, when we tried to build a giant tower to reach God, and God said, mm -mm, and split us all up.
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And what happens in Acts? The Spirit of God comes, and you can speak, like, you can understand different languages.
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So, the only way that we're going to, like, when they say people have, because I was thinking, all right, so, you get to a tribe, you don't know what they're, you don't know how to speak their language, especially if they use sounds, they don't use actual words.
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How are you going to communicate the gospel? You're going to say it to them, and they're going to be like, I don't know what the, well, they won't probably do that.
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They're probably, I don't know what they would do. But I feel like the Holy Spirit will, yeah,
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I feel like the Holy Spirit, 65 % of the thunder will come into it. But I think that the Holy Spirit will just go ahead and either through, it'll be through the
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Spirit, have them, their ears, they will be able to understand what you're saying.
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There are biblical examples of that exact thing that you just said. So, they don't even need, what
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I'm trying to say is they don't need a messenger. Because I will go one minute, and I'll say, you know what
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God showed me? You know, God illuminated something in my head, or in my mind.
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You know, God showed me through the, He doesn't need somebody to come up and say, hey, so Jesus died on the cross, and get this,
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He did it for your sins. And He lived 33, perhaps, mayhaps, years of perfect life, sinless, all that.
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He doesn't need that. Whatever is needed, He can illuminate and give revelation.
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Like, by what delivery source is He dependent? And that point right there, that point right there, that's the thing a lot of people get,
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I think they get crossed, is they think that God needs us.
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And that, absolutely not. God can do whatever He wants. That's, what is that, Psalms? Is that in the
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Psalms? The entire Bible, yeah. But there's a specific verse that says - Psalm 115 .3, our God is in heaven and does whatever
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He pleases. Does whatever He, whatever He wants to do. How do you just have that one memorized, dude?
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Because that one was a groundbreaking one for me years ago. Because - Me too. Well, I put it together.
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Psalm 115 .3, our God is in heaven and does whatever He pleases. Romans 5 .8, God demonstrates
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His love toward us, why we were still sinners. Oh, man. Christ died for us. He can do whatever He wants. If He does whatever He wants, and He died for sinners, that means it pleases
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Him. He wanted to do it. To die, yes. I found it, by the way. I said Revelation 14, it was Revelation 7.
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So, half of it. Half the man Andrew was when he punched me in the face. It only, was it 45?
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Well, you took more than half of his thunder, so it's okay. Well, he gave me 65 % of his power in my eye socket.
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Revelation 7, verse 9. Yes, my contacts are expensive, by the way.
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After this, I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the
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Lamb. I read the Bible literally until the
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Bible tells me not to read it literally. So, if Jesus says, the parable of the, I'm going to read it as a parable.
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Okay? This says that John, the inspired writer, looked and saw a multitude no one could number, but he could see that there were people from every nation.
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Now, I didn't say every person from every nation. This is not a, you know, this is not one of those universalism type thing.
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From every nation, all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and the Lamb, clothed in the white robes.
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I want to make one more point. And I think this answer gets kind of passed over.
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Please remember, after the rapture, seven year tribulation, or for some of you, three and a half years or two minutes or whatever,
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I'm not, it's a matter of that, that's for another podcast. When Jesus returns, He sets up a millennial reign of a thousand years.
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A literal one thousand years. He will be ruling with a rod of iron.
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He will reign in the midst of His enemies. And there will still be rebels, because at the end of it all,
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Satan gathers the rebels like grains of sand and all that stuff. He releases Satan from his thousand year captivity and all this.
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However, when Jesus Christ is ruling from Jerusalem, the world is going to look a whole lot different.
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It will be nothing like it is now. Nothing like it is now. And though there will still be rebels, nations in general will be
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Christianized. And I don't mean that in a religious sense. I mean, because Jesus Christ is ruling. And imagine the amount of salvations that will happen in those thousand years.
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Of course, there will still be rebels. But imagine the proclamation of the gospel with Jesus Christ ruling the universe.
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Now, He rules now. Don't get me wrong. He is ruling from heaven now, waiting for His enemies to be weighed at His footstool.
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Now, don't misunderstand my eschatology. Listen to me. But He will actively be ruling in physical
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Jerusalem for a thousand years. And there won't be a question about, what are those who have never heard anymore?
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I make that a promise. So, okay.
47:24
Kind of going off kilter just for a second. Go off the kilter. Point taken.
47:30
To what you said about Revelation. One thing that always, or one thing that really caught me, because I had never put it together in my head, was that, so just like with Moses, and the signs that the magicians were able to mimic up to a point.
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You read about the seven seals. You read about the bowls. You read, and God is pouring out
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His wrath onto humanity. And what people will still, still say, well, there's no such thing as God.
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They'll refuse Him. They'll refuse it. What is it?
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A locust the size of dogs or horses. We're going to come out, eat people, like eat things.
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And, oh, it's just, it's radioactivity from our way of killing the earth.
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That's, it's going to be rationalized. Not, oh, look, it's already happened.
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It's right there. It's right there. No, we got to rationalize it because there's no such thing as God. It just, it baffles me that that's what it's, because you see it now.
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You see it right now with every, I mean, not the seven seals. But you could ask somebody right now, if you knew for a fact that God was real, would you believe in Him?
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I have heard it. I have seen it. They say no. They say no.
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I say, okay, I've, I've been angry before too, but I mean, come on. You know, there's a, there's two sides of the coin here.
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And one side is this. In one sense, that person was every one of us at one point.
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Absolutely. We were all, according to Romans 3, God haters, rebels, you know.
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Romans 3, 11 says no one seeks God. Right. What does no one mean?
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So my question is, how does anyone ever find Him? You know what I said earlier about if they seek
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God, how does anyone ever find Him? They don't. He finds us first. We love
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Him because He first loved us. The other side of that coin is, however you want to play this out in eternity in your timeline of soteriology,
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He commands all men everywhere to repent. Hmm. And what we are proclaiming to the world is, guys, the time for repentance is now.
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And one day that time will be up. We all may have started in the same boat, but it's time for you to repent before God, because one day there will be judgment for all that has been done wrong.
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And someone will be paying for those sins. It will either be Jesus or you. Those are the only two options.
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And that just... And, you know, as we say this, if there's anyone listening now, hear me for a minute.
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The Word of God has proven itself true time and time again. When God speaks, you only have two options.
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Harden your heart in rebellion more or submit. Or submit. The mark of a
50:58
Christian is not how high you raise your hand in worship, though there's nothing wrong with that.
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It's not how high you raise your hand in worship. It's not how loud you sing. It's not how much scripture you have memorized.
51:11
It's submission to God and obedience to His Word. The word struggle. What does the word struggle mean?
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Anyone listening right now, get on your phone, go to Safari or Chrome. Chrome is better for nerds, right?
51:25
Yeah. Okay, whatever. Type in the word struggle and it will say something like this.
51:31
To make forceful or violent effort to get free from. The Christian life is a struggle.
51:37
And when we say that, we mean that in the actual sense of the word. Struggle. To fight against. To fight against.
51:44
That's the idea. We were all in that boat. We're struggling against it.
51:50
If I go on, tell me to shut up. But I got one more point on that, about that people still refusing.
51:56
Someone asked me today, a genuine person. They're an invitation at church service today.
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And I don't like the term church service. None of us do. But they're at a worship meeting today. Hey Josiah, I'm here.
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I'm not sure about this Christian thing. I have questions. By the way, that's a great thing. So do I, by the way.
52:18
So do I. And I'm a pastor. Yeah. Questions are how we learn. Nicodemus had questions. Jesus answered them.
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The eunuch on the chariot had questions. Philip answered them. Questions are a good thing. And I told him an account.
52:34
And you can find different variations of this. It's a true account. There's different variations of a story online. Basically, a guy's about to die.
52:41
He calls the, as he calls him, the preacher man to his hospital bed and says, hey, I'm dying.
52:49
If there is a God, I'd sure like to come to terms with him now. Before I meet him. Can you convince me in five minutes there is a
52:57
God? The pastor said, I don't need five minutes. I just need one word.
53:03
Israel. That is probably a odd word for me to use for some of you. But just hear me just for a minute.
53:12
We know of some ancient peoples from 3 ,000 years ago. We bury 20 feet in the sand and find a rock.
53:20
And then eventually you find a city and a village. The Phoenicians, let's say, for example. We can find some pieces of clay and say,
53:28
OK, maybe this was the Hittites. Of all the ancient peoples we know of, where are the
53:36
Hittites today? They're dead. The Perizzites, the
53:41
Canaanites, the Phoenicians. Where are the Babylonians? Where are the
53:47
Assyrians? Where are they? They're all dead. You need a 23andMe
53:55
DNA reader just to find out where people are that were around just 300 years ago.
54:05
If I were to give you a map and said, find Israel, could you find it? How is it that only one of those ancient civilizations we can still find on the map today?
54:16
And I'll tell you the answer. I have an answer. I question what yours is. My answer is this.
54:21
Deuteronomy 7, verse 6 through 9. It is not because you were more numerous than the other nations that the
54:27
Lord set his love on you, but it's because the Lord loves you and has chosen you as a heritage for himself and is keeping the promise he swore to your fathers and that he promised
54:36
Abraham your offspring will be as numerous as the stars of heaven and they will be getting the land that I tell them to.
54:42
All of a sudden, after World War II, after 2000 years of not being a nation, the
54:49
Allied forces, which includes France, by the way, agreed to give the persecuted people called the
54:56
Jews a plot of land. You know what land they agreed to give them? Guys, that is a coincidence that I have an answer for.
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It's called God. If you are an unbeliever listening to this, I beg you, write it in. I'm not afraid.
55:13
What is your answer? How does that happen? You should put it in the comment section, right?
55:18
Yeah, put it in the comment section. When I figure out how to access that, I'll answer it. There's no answer other than God, because he said they will be getting the land that I told them they will be getting.
55:30
Not to mention that they were attacked by every nation around them and survived. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
55:36
Six -Day War. Wikipedia. Yes, the Six -Day War, 1976, something like that.
55:42
All right, I've got them. This goes to show you that the answer to a lot of these questions that you will have or that an atheist will pose and will make you say, the answer to a lot of those questions is, where is your faith, man?
55:56
Like, where does it lie? Do you believe in God who identifies as I am, who introduces himself to them,
56:05
I am sent to you? Or do you believe in Jesus at Sunday school?
56:11
Do you believe in the Jesus that makes you feel good? Or do you believe in Yahweh, the
56:17
God of power? Do you believe in the racist Jesus?
56:22
Or do you believe in the actual King of Kings and Lord of Lords? Exactly. And I learned that, man, my first year of leading, of being a youth leader.
56:35
And I prayed for those youth, and I prayed that the things that we would do would benefit and that God would move.
56:45
But deep in my heart, I said, realistically, probably this person will finally get over themselves, but I don't see the rest of these people doing much.
57:04
And when God decided to move and said, excuse me, did you forget who
57:12
I am? Did you forget that I am powerful and I do as I want, as I do, as I please?
57:20
And I can bring any to repentance, any. That atheist that you're so afraid of, that is so well spoken and so well studied, it doesn't take, you know, it doesn't take a
57:37
Pastor John, a Pastor Josiah, a Votie Bauckham, it doesn't take these big hitters, it takes the word of Jesus.
57:48
It takes conviction from the Spirit to bring anybody. In Corinthians, it says, bring me your scholars.
57:56
Bring me the smartest people in the land. God has come to shame them. Well said. Well said.
58:02
Claiming themselves to be wise. They became fools. Any questions about the
58:08
God who can do as He pleases, and yet chooses to die for us, not when we fix ourselves up.
58:16
He chooses to die for us, not when we've gone to church. Right. He chooses to die for us, not when we've wanted to fix our kids.
58:25
He chose to die for us while we were still spitting in His face, while we were still nailing Him to a cross, while we're still laughing at His pain.
58:32
And that pleased Him. If you've got questions about that, remember, you can always write us in.
58:40
Write us in. We are always happy to talk to you and share with you the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ who has changed all of our lives, and will continue to change lives until His day comes, when
58:54
He will decide to change the world. Yes. As a whole. Yep. Awesome.
59:01
So that was the listener -submitted question, which, again, was...
59:08
We did answer it. We answered it. I feel like we answered it pretty... I want to go ahead and just recap that. Yeah, the question was, what about those who have never heard islands, all that stuff?
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Yes. About those who have never heard... Yeah. This is a great recap. And our answer was that, first off, creation reveals who
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God is, the actual God is. Right. Okay? And that when someone seeks God based on revelation
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He has sent them, He will always send them the necessary revelation to bring them to His fold.
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Cornelius seeking God, Acts chapter 10, God sends him Peter to tell him the whole gospel.
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God can use a missionary, a vision, a dream, speaking to someone. He can use whatever means
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He wants. That was Brother Hunter's point. It means that we don't even know. Yeah. Whatever means He wants, it will... Now, this is the caveat.
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This is not a free pass. God will send them the revelation required and save them with the same faith it takes to save anybody else from Abraham to John to present day.
01:00:09
He has always been by faith and that will never change. He sends them the necessary revelation to achieve that goal.
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He has always judged people based on what He has revealed to them at that time. Okay? So, He has revealed to us letters in the
01:00:28
New Testament of how we're to operate in the church, for example. Well, some of those commands He has chosen not to reveal to other people yet.
01:00:35
That's His prerogative. That they have been revealed to us, we will be obeying them. That kind of stuff. I have a final segment of Pastor Josiah's dork.
01:00:46
Sure. Would love it. Just make fun of myself real quick. Let's do it. Oh. Earlier you said the word comma.
01:00:53
Marco Polo, very useful app. Brother Andrew and I use it quite a bit, probably every week. Well, I used to voice text a lot.
01:01:03
I still do. For the first three months of me using Marco Polo, I'd get on here. It's a video messaging app, by the way.
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I'd get on here and be like, hey, Brother Andrew comma, what do you want the opening scripture to be, question mark, dot, dot, dot.
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See you tomorrow, man, exclamation mark. Love you. The next few seconds later, you go, hey, man,
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I just realized I wasn't doing a voice text. Oh, my gosh. It's another facepalm thing, but at least this one wasn't sinful.
01:01:34
Yeah, this is just not knowing how to use technology. That's okay. Not a problem. I totally don't understand that at all.
01:01:40
I haven't done it anymore. That was a long time ago. I got it out. That was at least three months ago, as you. Oh, come on.
01:01:46
I thought it was longer than that. Did I say three months? You did. I'm going to say that it definitely hasn't happened in the past couple of weeks.
01:01:52
So that's good. And I thought it went from months to weeks, years. Did I say months? I've caught you a few times.
01:01:59
I just don't say anything. Do I do it on my Sunday night Bible study videos? No, what I have to watch out for.
01:02:06
Have I done it on this podcast? You know what he just said? Man, I haven't watched those. No, probably not.
01:02:12
Dot, dot, dot. No, there comes a point when I'm like, all right, my favorite.
01:02:18
I've said it before. I'll say it again. My favorite part about editing your Sunday night Bible studies is the mere fact that I'm going to have to deal with this.
01:02:27
Let's read the Bible, shall we? Get my tissues, man.
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That kind of stuff. And I'm like, all right, so we're going to. Cut, cut, cut. My favorite is this.
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All right, we're going to read the Bible. On screen the entire time.
01:02:48
Well, it's funny because he'll duck out of the way. Like he's out of the camera.
01:02:54
No, he's still in the camera. There's no getting around that camera. He's like, is this the best
01:03:01
I have to deal with? Is this him? This is all. It looks like he teleports because he's like, he's sitting like this one.
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And then you edit me and my head's over there. I never. Like my head's over there. My body's there. Like you just punched me at 65 % or whatever.
01:03:13
I'm just decapitated. His contacts all the way across. You can see the contacts on his desk.
01:03:21
Well, guys, that's the podcast. There we go. If you enjoy watching the
01:03:27
Point Taken podcast, listening, getting fed. You know, catch us every
01:03:33
Saturday. Getting fed, getting fed by the
01:03:38
Holy Spirit. Well, I'm good at delivery. I was, you know why that happened?
01:03:44
It's not delivery. I was thinking he was talking.
01:03:50
He said, stop me if I'm going too long. I was like, bro, I'm, I'm straight up just getting fed right now. I'm just like, no, just keep on going.
01:03:56
This is much for me. That was good for these guys. That was good. I haven't said a pun today.
01:04:02
We need to, all right. So let's go ahead and wrap it up before we pass you to the side. Try to say a pun. Guys, catch us on YouTube.
01:04:08
Get us on SoundCloud. Soon to be on Spotify. That's, that's the audio.
01:04:14
On Saturdays. I'm just kidding. But until then. We know what SoundCloud is. Love God more than you love yourself.
01:04:20
Pursue to love your neighbor and to humble yourself before him and increase your faith daily.