Post Election Thoughts (Rebels Hate God), Van Til and the Use of Evidence (Matt Walsh)

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:31

Well, here we are The day after I don't know the day after what but I Can think a number of times now of post election dividing line

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Webcasts where There was there was just a lot to think about and a lot that had been revealed

00:56

I Honestly think that the main thing that we saw yesterday, well, okay, let me just say there are still

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I I can't fully explain it, but I live in a state that can't do what

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Florida can do according to our elected officials, it's because of our legislature and the

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System that has been put into place in regards to early balloting and Mail -in ballots and all this stuff that just makes it impossible to have any get it get it done and I was just listening to Really?

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It's the primary local news station. Now. It's KFY. I still around it is. Okay I mean,

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I don't listen to them very often, but I actually I I was sitting in line in my truck and I'm going okay.

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How does the radio? Hmm haven't that's just I don't use it very often.

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And so I finally tracked him down. It was a long process of Radio what a

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Terrestrial radio what it what a fascinating concept it is. Anyway, and they were basically saying that Friday evening, maybe

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Saturday at the latest And they're still I think they had said like four hundred thousand votes or something sitting out there that haven't been counted yet So we don't know

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For certain I'm with you The longer it takes the more time there is for mischief to be done.

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I get it you know, you got all the time you need to print all the ballots you need and Are there people that would do that?

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Yep. Nope. No, no question about it But that's where we are and I assume at least right now

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As somebody said you you couldn't throw a dead cat without hitting a lawyer in in Maricopa County right now, so I I would assume there are so many eyes on that you know, you just you just hope for the best you just hope for the best and Right now they're saying things are trending in a in a direction that Let's just put this way if things go well here in Arizona, I could see another four years of at least some level of Freedom to worship and evangelize and do things like that.

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I don't want to become, California I I do not want us to become, California The problem is as everybody knows people flee,

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California because of its idiocy and they come here to Arizona and they bring their the idiocy that they fled from with them here and That's why

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I know a lot of people who've lived here in Arizona for decades that really really really really don't like The people who've moved here in the past 10 years bringing their leftist insanity with them

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Anyway So things are not settled yet. We don't know what the final outcome of all these things going to be

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But we do know That a man who cannot put two coherent sentences together

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But has before his stroke Said that you know, all drugs should be legal pretty much everybody should be let out of prison

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Get rid of the filibuster in the Senate You know pro every kind of sexual debauchery on the planet

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We do know that That man will be in the United States Senate Which just makes the entire country go what has happened to us

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There was a time in my lifetime when that would not have happened and in fact, there was a time in my lifetime when a

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Political party would have been utterly embarrassed to have even run a man in the condition of soon -to -be senator

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Fetterman But not now because everybody knows he like Joe Biden is a placeholder you're voting now for Policies not individuals who actually have the capacity to reason argue express themselves things like that now obviously in many of these situations

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The people that were running on the non leftist side weren't overly impressive but Still it is astonishing that someone could cast those votes, but all of that aside

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California and Vermont Passed Bills, I guess

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I'm not sure they'd be called bills technically, but Depends on state state enshrining in law

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The culture of death enshrining in law The Right to murder an unborn child up to the point of birth and they

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Did so because of the Dobbs decision and what we are seeing.

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I don't know if you've seen the the numbers but The 18 to 29 year old demographic is so hard left

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That you might as well just call them the the communists Gen z

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Is fully secular Um They are the they are exactly what the educational system has been seeking to produce for decades now, this was this was the

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The goal and it has been accomplished And as the rest of us who have grown up and become adults

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Die off these folks who don't grow up And don't know what an adult is they've not had adults in their lives

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These are these are the young tiktok teachers that we see promoting uh every kind of sexual debauchery

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To their students coming out to their students These are the parents that we see taking their young children

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To drag queen story hour. These are the parents that we see sitting there laughing

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As their five -year -old stares in astonishment at some ghastly looking drag queen

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Spreading his legs in front of them uh at at in in a public place

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And they think it's just awesome And now they're voting and shockingly they're voting to end civilization

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Uh and freedom and liberty and mainly because they don't want freedom and liberty They want to be told what to do.

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They want to be controlled Um their status to the max. I forgot to pull it up drat

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Who what? Oh, wait a minute. I can find it because I retweeted it

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And i'm i'm hoping at the very least that before long there will be a um

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Yeah, there it is Some more improve improvements to twitter, um

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That would be pretty cool but um Let me see if I can um

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Yeah Yeah You got this Yeah, I don't know if you saw this

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But a video came out of north korea if you want to see unbridled statism what does what does the enshrinement of the state as our father and our mother

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Uh, what is the end result? Of quote -unquote progressivism, which is obviously regressivism uh but this

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The reality that the young people in our nation Believe that every problem the answer to every problem is to be found in the state

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You go to the government um you You you go to somebody else you run to mommy and mommy is the government

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And the result of that is what you what you see In our legislatures both on the state and federal level

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They're constantly passing laws and most of us go.

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Well, why else would they be there? And there's the problem That wasn't how things were designed at first The You know, we've all heard the statement over and over again and and the guy is not inspired.

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So it's But adams John, adams Said that the the constitution was designed for a religious and moral people.

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It is thoroughly inadequate For for any other kind of people. We are not a religious and moral people.

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We are an anti -religious Anti -moral and he meant religious as in christian And so the hatred

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Expressed by our society of god's law The hatred that the left shows toward the fact

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Of the humanity of the pre -born child, and that's what they That's exactly what they express.

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They hate the fact That on any Level, we're talking about a human being a unique Genetically unique.

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We now know exactly why Never to be repeated unique individual

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Is developing In that wound we know this and our society hates it.

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It's a culture of death It's a culture of death and once that becomes Associated with statism

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The rejection of all that's good from god his law. You've got to have something else. There's you know nature abhors a vacuum and so In fly is the state

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And I don't know if y 'all saw this But this is a video coming out of north korea now north korea is a cult

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It is a cult the size of a nation And it is a a cult that worships a family

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And anyone who questions that family questions that state It just simply disappears

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This is a nation filled with people Living on the edge of starvation It is one of the most evil dark places on the planet

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And it is the greatest example of what the state is. China's right there. Xi Jinping right there

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But north korea doesn't have the class to cover things over to try to make it look like they might fit into the global community

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And so here is a recent video That came out

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All of a minute long and I have no translation Sorry But um here is here is statism of as as it expresses itself

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Foreign Foreign Foreign There you go there is your there is statism and it will that was that not a religious gathering

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Um, let me guarantee you something remember that picture from world war ii where there's that one guy

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Everybody else is doing the salute and there's that one guy And I think we actually know who the guy guy was

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Um, you're not gonna find that guy in there Uh, there's not gonna be every

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There may be people in that room in those uniforms That don't want to be clapping

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That know that this is all just insanity But they're clapping because if you're the one guy not clapping

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You'll never be seen again I've heard it said and I and I don't doubt it that he has actually executed some people using anti -aircraft guns

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You know you put them out there and then you hit them with an anti -aircraft gun just obliterates them, you know woodchipper type stuff um, so You know, there there is zero respect for life

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This is The worst example that we can give you of what statism is

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And we have a Young Cohort in our in our culture

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They are statists That's all they are They're statists. They look to the government for everything and so When the government says

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Democracy is under attack and freedom and they just get to redefine all the words

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They redefine all the words And they they they're not educated they're indoctrinated

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They haven't been taught how to think critically in in any way shape or form And now they vote

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And if they had not voted in this election Then the reality that people are sick and tired

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Of being sick and tired they recognize the incompetence Of the current regime they recognize that the direction is all wrong um, there could have been a correction, but there won't be now, let's say

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Let's say it works out to where um Minimally the house is republican.

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Let's say they get the senate as well You you still got biden in the presidency.

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So you still got the veto power so that people have to recognize That even if you tap the brakes

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In two years, you got to push harder or Nothing's accomplished and so what we

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What we saw Last night is simply the the continuing reality

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Of the worldview rot that rebellion has brought to the united states this nation

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Designed its system of laws based upon a christian consensus There is no question of that The law was based upon God's word there were constant quotations from scripture the worldview that gave rise to Innocent until proven guilty and all of the freedoms that we have that Generations before not the current generation be honest with you uh have

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Cherished and recognized were special um All that has been repudiated

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And yet people are so foolish. They think they can still have the benefits without the foundation and it can't happen

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And so the States of california vermont Giving open vent and expression to this hatred of god's truth

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Once again, i've i've been saying this for decades, but it it only gets truer as time goes on We know more about the humanity of the unborn child today than we've ever known before And so the sinfulness the depravity the evil

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Of what california and vermont did look let's just be honest if god did the fire and brimstone thing

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Is there anyone who say could say you're wrong to do that? If he's done it in the past sodom and gomorrah what

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What what what excuse can be made? Now I realize vast majority of people don't

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Don't actually believe that god judged sodom and gomorrah the vast majority of People who call themselves christians today don't actually believe that actually took place jesus did but hey

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He was just a man of his day, right Uh, yeah progressivism, what can

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I say? so I don't know what we were expecting I Think a lot of us were like, well, it's just such common sense these people

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Are driving us into the ground. They're destroying our nation. Isn't it obvious? Well, it may be to some of us but obviously to a

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Sizable number of people it's like nope And they're the ones they don't know where their freedoms came from.

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They don't know where this economy came from It just you know, they don't know anything about history they haven't been taught anything about history.

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They don't even know where to look And so they're easily controlled they're just they're just very very easily controlled and uh

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What's going to happen between now and 2024? It's gonna change any of that And I can guarantee

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I I'll give you my my personal take whoever runs for the presidency of the united states in 2024

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If they are not a person who can enunciate clear and consistent worldview values They will accomplish nothing even if they win from the republican side that should tell you everything you need to know right there because there are very few republicans who have any worldview capacity at all

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Any understanding And what we're dealing with today is a worldview crisis it is the fundamental assertions of secularism

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That cannot coexist With the american form of government this government is done for Unless there is a massive massive change because when adam said what he said he was recognizing the fact

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That the freedom and liberty granted by the u .s constitution assumes the self -regulation

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Of the behavior of the citizens based upon morality and ethics found in the christian faith

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And once that is repudiated and rejected as it has been The very foundation of freedom and liberty is gone

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You cannot have a free people That are not self -disciplined

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And every time you see one of these wackos one of these evil sexual perverts

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Prancing around on stage. Oh, and then we had It was all over the place, but I I probably won't find it now, but I don't know if you saw it today

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But we have the beauty pageant And you have

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And I I don't think I don't think I retweeted it or anything so I can't go to it so I won't be able to pull it up here, um, but You had there it is ding ding ding ding

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Sorry, I found it Really literally, sorry, I found it um

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I don't know That's not gonna do anything for me I Don't know how to get that thing.

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Uh, that's close I can get

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Um I don't know if you saw this But here are some pretty young ladies and some pretty young ladies

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And a dude in a dress Who is neither pretty? He's revolting ugly um and It won

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What what? What can you even say? What what what is there to say?

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I I I don't even get it. It's uh, yeah, there you go

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That's um, that's where we are. That's where that's where this nation is Doesn't know what beauty is destroying god's standards right left and center

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And uh, so yeah There you go. Um So, I don't know what we were expecting uh when

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I see you know, there's certain things that would start to Give an indication to me of a major work of the spirit of god in our society and chocolate knocks

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On twitter this morning Said um

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What Now I haven't heard. Uh Doug's new blog post a new blog post just came up Even the best case scenario.

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It is very hard to escape the conclusion that our country is broken That's the bad news The good news is we might finally be in a position to admit that our country is broken

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Well, it's um Yeah, it's not it yeah, it's not just broken

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But I did respond to chocolate knocks And I said to him, uh, there it is

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He said, um He was responding to an action.

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Idaho Tweet that said if the gop cannot win in this environment, they cannot win period The dem mode of governance has been a disaster inflation tranny sexualization crime crt covet madness

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People favoring gop positions on a host of hot issues still a non -victory big problem Chocolate knox's response was

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Dead men can't see Our political bankruptcy is due to our being dead

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We need the work of the spirit to make us alive first There'll be no political sufficiency apart from regeneration.

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We need life What have I been saying? For for years and what have

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I been saying in regards to christian nationalism You have to you have to have

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Something's got to change in the hearts and minds of a bunch of people It's easy to sit here and say the gospel's the answer yeah it is

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But the gospel is made alive by the spirit of god in the hearts and minds of people And all the politicians and all of the polls and all of the clear obvious reality

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That over the past two years our nation has been fundamentally dragged into the pit

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Purposefully by our enemies who are in charge Didn't really change much.

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Oh, you got florida. It's okay Hey, i'm glad that miami -dade i'm glad that that places that are 70 hispanic are going

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Wait, this is stupid We're we're not helping ourselves here.

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Let's let's vote for the people that will actually Do something. That's great wonderful,

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I've I I you know, it'd be wonderful, you know, it'd be really super duper

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Is if these millions and millions and millions and millions and millions Of illegal aliens that have been purposefully brought in the united states

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Illegally by the regime. There's no question about the fact that's what we're doing We're to get here and go.

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Hey, you know, uh Really like it here, but we realize um, if we keep doing it the way those guys doing it

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This is gonna turn into same place we came from So let's do something else Let's let's actually try to keep this place.

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Whoa Wouldn't that be a a whopper of a change, um

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It could happen I suppose, you know, you never know but If the spirit doesn't isn't involved

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All the politics in the world Going away, um, so I In talking to some folks last night

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Uh The issue of matt walsh came up and I had a bunch of nasty people taking shots at me because I I made a comment

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Matt walsh. Hey, give the guy credit. Okay as a roman catholic He seems to be pretty much fearless um in doing as much as his roman catholic natural theology

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Type thing can allow him to do This has always been the problem and I I made reference to the fact that if you

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You know once in a while i'll tune into catholic answers live and and they'll be taking phone calls and an atheist will call in and I I listen to the conversation and I'm always struck by how completely different The conversation

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I I have with an atheist is from the conversation they have At best they are limited to the idea of The existence of god is a probability and the natural law

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Argumentation That is the hootie tootie snooty stuff in ivy league schools

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Um simply isn't biblical it doesn't it it's embarrassed

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By the claims of christ Okay, and when matt walsh is on with joe rogan

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His defense of marriage is all natural law stuff not well jesus said

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And you know matt walsh like yeah, but there are people who don't believe the bible. Yeah, but jesus said And as soon as you go, well, there are people don't believe the bible what you're saying is okay

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And I will grant them their rebellion And if you're thinking the only way to change your mind is to Trick them then that's what you're going to do

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But you see that the natural law argument has no place the spirit of god to bring conviction

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And so when even jesus has said from the beginning male and female well, that's what the bible says

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Yeah, that's what jesus said that's the best you've got and if you're embarrassed by that Okay And so I had

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I had raised that that issue And there were people popping off and i'm i'm sure if I went back

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And I I rarely do but i'm sure if I Went back

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There'd be all sorts of interesting comments that we could look at And I saw some stuff today that I thought well we could cover that in the divine line

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We cover that in the divine line and you know, I didn't didn't get around to it um But it was interesting because at at some point

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I basically said You know, I I pointed out consistent reform apologetics presuppositional apologetics

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Would have a very different approach In in responding to these types of of things

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And I had various people respond to that And in in the process, I said, you know, it it seems like there's a need to Revisit some aspects of presuppositional apologetics because I don't think they're well understood

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And I got thinking about it and so I looked up Um On youtube and we only you only have till tomorrow.

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So let me get this out here right now Eli didn't ask me to do this, but eli ayala with revealed apologetics is doing a

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Epic presuppositional thing on saturday the 12th Um, I know jason lyle's going to be joining him and some other people and it's gonna be hours on end um and so My understanding is to be a part of it.

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You need to sign up for it by tomorrow evening So if you go to revealed apologetics on youtube just put in revealed apologetics, you'll find um

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Eli's stuff there and i'd subscribe to his channel and then you should be able to get the information on What they'll be doing this saturday on presuppositional apologetics and i'm sure it'll be really really good

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And this morning while I was writing I listened to a Uh little book study that eli did uh on van till and the use of evidences and uh, he

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Held this up And said I have no idea where to find this I it was interesting because I went on uh, he even

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Live went on to amazon wasn't available. I found one uh for 45 bucks on amazon

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Maybe somebody saw that and said hey, I can make some money because my copy cost three dollars and 75.

34:25

Whoa. Hello three dollars and 75 cents Uh for my copy and it's not a big book as you can see

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And this one was from presbyterian reform back in I believe 19 1980

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Is the the date on this? tom notaro uh

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Wrote this And he just did uh, eli did the first chapter just a few pages and um

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So I listened to that while I was while I was doing part of my ride today but It reminded me of a lot of stuff in regards to the idea of evidence and apologetics

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And so before i'm just watching my time here Before we look at um the subject to conclude the hour, uh

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Taking us back to sufficiency of scriptures and stuff I want to just read a couple sections from the defense of faith by cornelius van till As you probably are aware there are all sorts of interpreters of van till Bonson is considered the most

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Well, he's he's the most widely read but frame Olyphant, uh, they've all written on van till and his his methodology

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And if you if any of you caught my presentation At reformcon last week week four last

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I just focused on some introductory comments that van till made that demonstrates that his his whole purpose

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In developing his apologetic was to Do evangelism.

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I mean he was a He was not a pie in the sky philosopher sitting in his tower

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Looking to be admired by the other philosophers, uh as they

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Uh did their thing that that's that's not what van till was about It was very much

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How can we reach a secularizing world and that's why

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I think this is so so so important because So much of the apologetics of the past was developed within a christian culture context where they're already given presuppositions and assumptions in place and those are gone now and so the apologetic methodologies that were developed at a different time just Don't work now because those those assumptions aren't there um

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But he wants people To know the gospel and he wants us to be able to present the gospel without compromising christ in the process

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And the danger is when you're dealing with people who've been taught their own autonomy they they

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They have been taught that they're nothing but a cosmic accident that's the first problem But because they're nothing but a cosmic accident then they are autonomous

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There's nothing Um above them. There is nothing to which they have to um

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Show any kind of You know recognition shall we say of authority

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We don't have to bow the knee to to anybody else. We are Nothing and everything at the same time

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We we're nothing because we're an accident and when we die, that's it But we're the center of all things.

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We're autonomous We have to make sense of everything and we can't function that way so the the chaos

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That you see around us christ or chaos Why is it christ or chaos two reasons?

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Christ is the creator. He is the one in the center that makes sense of everything else And when he's not in the center, we get sucked into that vacuum and the results chaos because you and I Can't function that way

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We are insufficient To have true knowledge of all fields around us We have to be out here

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The triune god's in the center as we know him then we can have true knowledge of everything else history and ethics and love and science and and everything

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But it's only as we relate to the triune god who is in the center And this was the genius of van till and I think very consistent with calvin that calvin's not

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Working with a secular system But when you apply calvin's theology,

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I think if calvin were alive alive today, he would look at Van till and his concerns ago.

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Yeah, that's that's what I that's what I meant. That's what I was saying. So um

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I I look back at these books and i'm not sure if I put a wow,

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I didn't even That's interesting. Normally I would sign my books and I eventually got a little

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Bookmarky thingy, you know imprint thing Uh, but I didn't on these um, this would have been late 80s

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I think when I got this one And what's interesting is in the defense of the faith um

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There is All sorts of neat stuff in here that we could spend a lot of time, you know

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I I just happened to look here and he's quoting warfield with respect to the ontological trinity

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I try to follow calvin and stressing it. There was no subordination of essence as between the three persons warfield points out when speaking of calvin's doctrine the trinity the father the son the spirit is

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Is each this one god the entire divine essence being in each? um, this goes back to um

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Calvin's emphasis upon the sun as autotheos um, which is a departure from post -nicene

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Post -nicene speculative theology or some people would call post -nicene orthodoxy, but it's post -nicene speculative theology um that has the the father communicating the essence to the sun and through the sun to the spirit and calvin recognized that that had

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Bad juju all over it. Anyway, um There's all sorts of things we yeah, you can sort of see the markings they're not as bright as they used to be because the yellow marker is probably uh

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Coming up on 35 years, uh old But what's interesting is right before?

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He gets to a section on apologetics The The sections that van till deals with are christ and his work and for whom did christ die?

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So for whom did christ die? Is the section right before apologetics fascinating um

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He see What why is why is it fascinating he sees? That your apologetic methodology flows from your theology

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And not the other way around you don't Amend your theology to to fit an apologetic methodology that you stumble across and go.

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Hey that worked pretty good No, it's it's the opposite and so um

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Let me just read some of this. I'm not sure how far i'll get but there's some really important stuff here Coming now to a brief statement of the method of defense that I use the propagation of what

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I believe And how it differs from the traditional method. I may note first that you have not for all the length of your article

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Anywhere given a connected picture of my argument yet. You at once characterize it in contrast with your own as being negative and universal

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Without the least bit of qualification. I am said to deny that there is common ground of reasoning

42:56

Between those who accept christian presuppositions and engage in the spread of the gospel And those who do not accept christian presuppositions and reject the gospel the facts

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Are far. Otherwise, that's that's that's van till saying if you say that I don't believe there's common ground

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You're wrong now but you've heard You've heard said over and over again van till says there is no

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Neutral ground, right? There is no neutral ground There is no neutrality

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But there is common ground And in case you're wondering the common ground is the fact that we're all made in the image of god

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I am to be sure opposed to the traditional method of apologetics As this has found its most fundamental expression in the summa of thomas aquinas the roman catholic

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And in bishop butler the arminian I seek to oppose roman catholicism and arminianism in apologetics as I seek to oppose it in theology

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Oh Your apologetic methodology flows from your theology Does that make my main thesis universally negative

44:08

I think there is a better and more truly biblical way Biblical, it's even capitalized

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Well, no wonder all of our new thomas are former van tillians

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And there is a better and more truly biblical way of reasoning With and winning unbelievers than the romanist arminian method permits.

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I noticed romanist arminian That have been put together To begin to begin with then

44:37

I take what the bible says about god And his relation to the universe as unquestionably true on its own authority

44:46

The bible requires men to believe that he exists apart from and above the world And that he by his plan controls whatever takes place in the world

44:57

Everything in the created universe therefore displays the fact that is controlled by god That it is what it is by virtue of the place that occupies in the plan of god.

45:05

Do you? Do you see something here? What's he contrasting this against Romanist arminian method and I can't help but think back

45:22

When was that? uh, it was 15

45:28

Years at least ago Um I had been invited to a local church here

45:39

And I I mean, I I think I gave a presentation on mormonism something like that Long story short it was uh when we were still going up to salt lake city and What it boiled down to was folks from this particular church that i'd spoken at Really couldn't come with us because of the literature we were passing out

46:06

And the literature we were passing out emphasized the sovereignty of god which of course mormons reject

46:14

But then again, so did they and my conversation with the pastor was, you know, this is erasmus and luther

46:24

This is back to freedom of bondage of the will But it really goes to something even deeper than that And and that is is there a divine decree

46:35

And in our days you look at the provisionists. There's no divine decree um

46:42

Vast majority of arminians. There's no divine decree What vantilla is saying is if there is no divine decree

46:50

Then you have abandoned the very matrix and fabric that allows the christian to say that everything that is

47:01

Is what it is because god made it to be As it is to function in the way.

47:07

It's functioning. God has a purpose in that And so, you know, the question is often asked

47:16

Can a non -reformed person be a presuppositionalist? And I have seen non -reformed people

47:23

Try to borrow certain elements of presuppositional argumentation. It's not consistent.

47:31

They're not being consistent They may see that it works in a certain sense

47:38

But it's not consistent with theology And so here you have The very sovereignty of god as an element of the apologetic

47:50

Everything in the created universe therefore displays the fact that is controlled by god That is what it is by virtue of the place that occupies in the plan of god

47:57

The objective evidence of the existence of god of the comprehensive governance of the world by god is therefore so plain

48:04

That he who runs may read Men cannot get away from this evidence. They see it round about them.

48:10

They see it within them their own constitution So clearly evinces the facts of god's creation of them and control over them that there is no man who can possibly escape observing it

48:21

If he is self -conscious at all, he is also god conscious No matter how men may try they cannot hide from themselves the fact of their own createdness

48:30

Whether men engage in inductive study with respect to the facts of nature about them or engage in analysis of their own self -consciousness

48:37

They are always face to face with god their maker Calvin stresses these matters greatly on the basis of paul's teachings in romans and he does and he does

48:48

There is so much there that we could go for but I wanted to Get to this um

48:59

This is on page 197, by the way, that was 195 If you have this edition the pnr edition of the fence of faith

49:08

I can't imagine it's changed much but it has been decades since about this The first and most basic point on which my approach differs from the traditional one is therefore that a

49:19

I start more frankly from the bible as the source from which as an absolutely authoritative revelation

49:25

I take my whole interpretation of life Roman catholicism also appeals to scripture, but in practice makes its authority void

49:33

Its final appeal is to the church Huh? What's my phrase to that? sola ecclesia

49:41

Its final Appeal is to the church and that is in effect to human experience

49:48

Even arminianism rejects certain scriptural doctrines such as election because it cannot logically harmonize them with the general offer of salvation

49:56

I stress the objective clarity of god's revelation of himself wherever it appears both thomas aquinas and butler

50:04

Contend that men have done justice by the evidence if they conclude that god probably exists

50:13

I have discussed the views of aquinas in the infallible word and those of butler in the syllabus of evidences I consider this a compromise of simple and fundamental biblical truth

50:23

It is an insult to living god to say that his revelation of himself so lacks in clarity that man Himself through and through a relation of god does justice by it when he says that god probably exists

50:36

The argument for the existence of god and for the truth of christianity is objectively valid We should not tone down the validity of this argument to the probability level

50:45

The argument may be poorly stated and may never be adequately stated but in itself the argument is absolutely sound

50:51

Christianity is the only reasonable position to hold It is not merely a re as reasonable as other positions or a bit more reasonable than other positions

51:01

It alone is the natural and reasonable position for man to take By stating the argument as clearly as we can

51:07

We may be the agents of the holy spirit impressing the claims of god upon men If we drop to the level of the merely probable truthfulness of christian theism we to that extent

51:18

Lower the claims of god upon men accordingly

51:25

I do not reject the theistic proofs Now, dr. Bonson did

51:31

But van till did not Accordingly, I do not reject the theistic proofs But merely insist on formulating them in such a way as not to compromise the doctrines of scripture so When I debated dan barker

51:50

University of illinois Did I present evidence? I did but how did

51:56

I do it? I started off by saying, you know before I presented the evidence for example of design so plainly found

52:06

In the mitochondria of all of our cells I said i'm not inviting you to sit in judgment

52:15

Over the creator who made these things I am presenting you this evidence to demonstrate the inconsistency

52:25

Of your rejection of the god you already know exists And so as I said on twitter yesterday the issue

52:36

You know, even van till says in his own writings Even van till says

52:42

I'm not against theistic proofs It's how you formulate them And what you're doing with them

52:50

If you formulate them as if there is a um Naturalistic neutral mechanism

53:02

Of looking at the world that doesn't start with god then i'm going to reject that and We don't have time to go into it today but if you go back and I don't

53:13

I don't know the searcher bring this up, but many times over the years I have pointed out that The best

53:25

The best formulation Of the cosmological argument that i've ever seen was in a book intro book on philosophy by row r -o -w -e

53:42

And the conclusion of that particular article was

53:48

This would be a valid argument If we could demonstrate

53:55

That its foundation Is universally binding and what did he identify as its foundation?

54:02

It's called psr the principle of sufficient reason And the principle of sufficient reason is where you've got a connection between what he's talking about and what van till's talking about uh, the grounding of psr

54:18

Is in the created world that god made So there's you see you see the connection there um

54:26

But his point obviously is that when you

54:34

When you make your your argument when you let's say you have a form of the cosmological argument you want to use

54:41

Are you presenting it to the rebel sinner as if you are approving of the fact that they have climbed their little tushy

54:49

Up onto the throne The judgment seat

54:55

And they are pretending That they have the capacity to judge whether they are pots or not

55:03

If you present yourself in such a way That you are encouraging their belief in their own autonomy

55:15

There's the issue There's the problem And that's a theological problem because many of you have a theology of the gospel

55:26

That starts with the fact that they are autonomous And that god cannot take out their heart of stone.

55:35

Their heart of stone has to be convinced to leave on its own It's kind of foolishness

55:40

That's why I say You know when I hear uh Non -reformed guys trying to borrow

55:51

Transcendental argumentation from the presuppositional system. I just chuckle It's like keep going guys

55:58

Keep going. You'll figure out what what what's behind this, you know Way to go, but they're being inconsistent

56:05

They're being inconsistent And you want to have your theology and your apologetic communicating the same thing

56:13

And that's what van till is helping us to try to do And that's why when people you know, what do

56:24

I do with it? Oh Vantil and the use of evidence. There are people that you can't use evidence.

56:30

You're a vantilian. No the whole point of until is everything

56:36

If it exists is evidence of god Because it came from his hand But you don't

56:45

Sit there and put man in the judgment seat and say to him

56:51

Here, let me give you some more evidence. Now. Will you believe? Because he's already holding down Cata canton romans 1 suppressing the knowledge of god.

57:04

He's holding it down with all he can already So you give him some more and he just makes a little room and holds that down too

57:16

What you've got to do is you've got to start prying those fingers up by showing him the inconsistency

57:25

Of the fact he lives in god's world He's stealing from god

57:31

To hold his worldview together And you hope and pray that the spirit of god

57:38

Will use that And and that's why I think some people were going Yeah, but You know joe rogan already figures that you know, it's just your religious belief well

57:52

Joe rogan needs to be joe rogan Needs to be shown that his worldview

58:00

Has to have a foundation as well and he's stealing From the christian god to hold his worldview together

58:08

He's made in the image of god Appeal to it Appeal to it

58:14

That's that's what van till's saying and that's I think what we have to be doing as well Yes, sir.

58:20

You uh, you seemed interested. I'm having a thought Um, it it strikes me a question that i've asked my sunday school class.

58:30

Uh, Do you believe in god And of course everybody's like well, yeah.

58:36

Well, then why don't you talk like it? Yeah Yeah because if you Again, it's back to that worldview perspective.

58:43

It comes out of your mouth And if you're entertaining any of these ideas about probabilities or neutrality or any of these things you're undermining the thing you say you profess to believe

58:56

You're undermining it's not there So if if you believe in god talk like it if you believe in christ live like it if you believe salvation if you believe in the five solas then

59:11

Where is your worldview that comes out of your mouth and is in your life? That actually reflects that it's it's not there.

59:20

You're out here living like the world lives with a religious veneer And and that's what drives

59:26

I think both of us crazy when we try to communicate with these people. It's like you You don't understand what we're saying.

59:33

We're saying you're not living like that What you say you believe it's just that simple

59:40

Well, and the lost person cannot live consistently with their rejection of The knowledge of god because they live in god's world and therefore there's going to be inconsistencies

59:50

And so it's the internal critique that reveals these things but like I said

59:57

There was the the the article the third article from baptist dogmatics

01:00:02

But all of my time for that was taken up by rich's sermon. So, um, i'm, sorry

01:00:07

We were gonna get that today, but you know, I needed to let you know, I could tell that You could see the pressure, you know building up in the little teapot in the other room.

01:00:17

And so he just don't want it Exploding, right? anything like that Anyway, so, uh, like I said, uh go to revealed apologetics on youtube um, eli ayala, um

01:00:35

Saturday if you want a whole bunch more of all of this Um, like I said, jason lyle is going to be one of the folks.

01:00:43

Uh, That's going to be on that. I don't have the whole thing in front of me and um, it's going to go for like four hours or something like that, so um

01:00:52

If you really want to dive into that there is so much and it's so useful And there's so much misrepresentation of vantill out there

01:00:59

Um and so many former vantillians today Who have discovered?

01:01:05

The the great light of thomas aquinas and I just want to go that's because you never understood what you're talking about in the first place

01:01:12

Huh? Yeah, um, that's that's definitely the case So, uh,

01:01:18

I think however that eli and I are the only two people left With a copy of this book and I don't know how

01:01:25

I found this today. I Generally I have an idea Because the one the one failure

01:01:32

We've been here since 06 so 16 years And I've I've bought the little scanner thing.

01:01:42

I I've I've tried to do some organizing of my library, but just to be honest with you

01:01:48

I just sort of know where things are because i've seen them there before but I didn't know what this looked like and so I don't know how many

01:01:57

Thousands and thousands of volumes are in my library but trying to find that Especially as your eyes ain't what they used to be.

01:02:05

Um, I found it it it's and it wasn't really near What would have helped me with that?

01:02:12

But I think eli and I are the only two people left on on the earth that have that little That little book so, um, anyway, so there you go.

01:02:20

All right, we will uh, press on uh next Like I said Got a church function this weekend.

01:02:28

It's going to be sort of unusual because nani and I my wife And I her name's not nani, but for the grandkids it is um are taking two of our five grandkids with us up north to a church function

01:02:45

And I think that's the first time we've done that um, and so, uh, another of the families contacted us

01:02:53

And one of the is the music already going Oh, I was just gonna say one one of the young young guys

01:03:01

Uh, I think he broke some bones in his foot or something like that. And so he's asked Am I going to bring a chess set?

01:03:08

and my and my uh uh telescope So I was thinking about bringing the chess set anyways

01:03:15

Uh, but now i've got to figure out how to get the telescope in the back of my truck and keep it in one piece Uh and get it up there.

01:03:22

Um And in fact, I think i'll probably bring the solar scope too if i'm gonna bring all that stuff. I might as well um and um, hopefully we'll have some clear skies and And do some fun stuff up there.

01:03:34

So we're gonna be doing the grandma and grandpa thing Well, I do the grandpa thing. She does the nani thing.

01:03:40

She's not into the grandma terminology whatever Um, but we'll be doing that this weekend.

01:03:46

So, uh lord willing, uh next week we'll be back at it We'll have that week And then the week after that is thanksgiving

01:03:54

And the day after thanksgiving I head out and we're going to be going to st. Charles to uh, jonesborough uh to emory uh lubbock

01:04:07

And now amarillo i've added a church. Um Toward the end of that trip.

01:04:13

So there's gonna be five churches We're gonna be visiting on uh on this particular trip

01:04:19

And um I'm just going to enjoy it immensely Because I just don't know how long we're gonna be able to do this but as long as god's people make it available i'm gonna enjoy getting out there and uh

01:04:34

So we'll give you some more information next week about the specifics on those dates I've got the dates but you know like addresses and stuff like that And so we'll be heading out the day after thanksgiving.