November 28, 2017 Show with William VanDoodewaard on “The Quest for the Historical Adam: Genesis, Hermeneutics & Human Origins” AND Terry Mortenson on “Searching for Adam: Genesis & the Truth About Man’s Origin (Part 3)”

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Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com this is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Tuesday. On this 28th day of November 2017 we have a jam-packed show today on the subject of The historical Adam and we have two guests to discuss this very important topic in a day and age when the existence of this vital biblical character Is being questioned not only by liberals, but even by those who profess to be Conservative Bible believers and even those who profess to be believers in biblical inerrancy.

Which is quite disturbing to many of us in the Christian community. Who believe that in order to deny the existence of this vital historic character? Figure from history You would really Be compromising or even denying the inerrancy of Scripture no matter what you claim.

But the first guest that we have on today to discuss this important matter is William Vandewaard and He is an author. He's a professor of church history at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

And that is a seminary that is very familiar to most of our iron sharpens iron radio listeners. I believe since we've had so many of the faculty and people associated with that seminary on the program including the founder Dr. Joel Arbeekie, who's a personal friend of mine for many years and We are looking forward to our discussion with dr. Vandewaard on His book the quest for his for the historical Adam Genesis hermeneutics and human origins.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio Dr. Bill Vandewaard.

It's great to be with you Chris. Thank you so much for the kind invitation to join with you and your listeners as we discuss these things.

And by the way, am I butchering the Dutch pronunciation of your name? Okay, that's great that's a relief. And In studio with me is someone who is a frequent visiting co-host on iron sharpens iron radio.

Especially when we are discussing anything involving Creationism especially in regard to a young earth position on that very topic. We have Charlie Liebert in the studio today who is founder of six day creation comm it's always great to have you in the studio.

To co-host thanks Chris. It's great to be here and we look forward to you returning as a guest as well on the program. Yes, thank you. That's coming up soon. And if anybody would like to join us with a question on The quest for the historical Adam, please send us a question.

Quickly to Chris Arnson at gmail .com if you have specifically a question for our first guest. Dr. Bill Vandewaard. Because of the fact that he's only on with us for the first 30 minutes of the show. But first of all, dr. Vandewaard What led you specifically?

To write this book the quest for the historical Adam since as you are fully aware, there have been other books that have focused their their their their subject matter on the historical Adam, especially since liberalism has crept into the church beginning in the late 19th century perhaps earlier and has really begun to Overturn the faith of many but it has continued to overturn the faith of me.

But if you could tell us why the Quest for historical Adam and why do you believe it's a needed volume in our libraries? To be added to what has already been written.

Sure, great. Thanks Chris. Who's actually our second guest today. Yeah in terms of looking at. You know, in fact, it should please you to know that the last time I had dr. Terry Mortensen on the program.

He spoke very highly of your book. Certainly a mutual feeling I very much appreciate. And well, why don't we go into. Because we're not gonna have a lot of time today obviously since you're only on for the first half hour, but why don't we go into some of.

The.

Primary things that you believe in Orthodox Christian needs to know and believe about Adam in regard to Adams origins in the scriptures themselves, and then if we can we'll try to get into some of the patristic evidence as well.

Sure.

That's a very important factor because this is Charlie Liebert by the way. That's a very important factor because a lot of the old earth people and even some of the young earth people that are kind of Off want to bring other people other races in there and other people before Adam.

That's a critical factor. Even young earth people are saying there. There's a couple there some of the ones that are more deviant. That that's odd there. You would wonder why they would even bother. Well, they want to explain something about Cain's wife.

That's a long story.

Okay. Yes, so this this idea that That there were hominids that were not quite human that were Adams parents. That is a completely dangerous not only a false but a dangerous concept to have I'm assuming you would believe.

Absolutely, and it's interesting. It's not something that only appeared with Darwin. We look further back. There were a number of sort of and they actually are which argued that only Europeans of other origins.

Really and and that Herman with fear quite a number of key theologians who are responding to that error.

And what the error would Francis Turretin be from specifically?

That's church and would be from the late 1600s. So that that's a bizarre theory.

That I know that there is even a Christian cult, I don't know if you're familiar with it. Some of them they're really almost nearly died off. But there's a doctrine called the two seed in the spirit teaching that That all of the non elect are actually the biological offspring of Eve and the serpent.

I don't know if you've heard that strange teaching.

But So.

The the the old earth folks who Introduce into the the biblical account many of them if not most right will claim to be believers in biblical inerrancy. Right, and they will say that the reason why their view one of the reasons why their view is compatible with the scripture is that They will say that the only death that came about through the fall was the death of human beings and They will say that since Adam's parents and his other ancestors were not fully human Their deaths would not violate the biblical teaching on that.

What is your response to that?

Simply does not code by God and This is. And so before we take any of our listener questions because we've already got a number of them.

Please give us some of the patristic background on this issue of the historical Adam.

Sure, if we begin with the at the early church and Woxie to this I'm sure the I'm sure the Mormons quote him.

Yeah.

And then as we move to the Reformation era, you know, there were some allegorists because of this. Because of this literal interpretation of the day. All right, we're gonna take some of our listener questions and I typically do not read.

The entire name of our listeners.

But.

Since this pastor is someone I know Who actually is pastoring a church I can confidently recommend the Knox? Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Lansdowne, Pennsylvania. I'm speaking of Dr. Jeffrey Waddington who pastors there.

He.

Asks, can one maintain the two Adams structure of Paul and Romans 5 and 1? Corinthian. I'm sorry in Romans 5 and 1st Corinthians 15 if one denies that Adam was a real historical person the first human ever.

That is Dr. Waddington's question.

Without historical Adam. You're gonna run into all kinds of that comparison with Christ and who he is and his reality in history. Because it's going to undermine all that all that basis.

Yeah, the fact that Adam is in the genealogy right of Christ in the Bible that would make that a fictitious.

Genealogical record. And it would be you know, first Adam. Second Adam. If there's no first Adam then. Where do you get the second Adam? Right?

All right. Well, thank thank you Dr. Jeff Waddington and you have won a free copy of the book. That we are discussing today. Compliments of.

The.

Reformation heritage books that is the quest for the historical Adam Genesis hermeneutics and human origins and we want to thank The our friends over at Reformation heritage books who frequently provide us with books To give away to our listeners who submit questions, and this is quite a substantial book a 400 page hardcover that retails for $30, so This is quite the gift.

And so please make sure we have your mailing address Dr. Jeff Waddington so we can mail that out to you. We have another listener who has a question and Let's see. Just had it in front of me and it disappeared.

Gotta find that fast because we are limited on our time today. Okay here we have Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Ted says hi Chris the question of a historical Adam plays prominently in the debate on the age of the earth.

Though for the life of me, I don't know why for some reason young earth creationists tend to assume that old earth creationists don't or can't Believe in a historical Adam and your guest view is an old earth view inconsistent with a belief in a historical Adam and if so, why.

Well I'm assuming the first would be the the how Adam was created, but if you could If you could answer the question of Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

Sure. I'm glad to answer Ted's question. What I knew many stand on common this one. And that doesn't a Genesis to further down it. Well, thank you, Ted.

You've also won a free copy of the book the quest for the historical Adam. So please make sure we have your full mailing address. And we thank once again our friends at Reformation Heritage Books and also our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service Cvbbs .com who will be shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to our interpreters on radio.

We have David in Ada, Ohio. He says could you explain the timing between the fall of Satan and the sin of Eve and Adam?

Yeah, the Bible's silent on that, isn't it? Yes scripture is silent on that. So it has to be. Clearly somewhere between the time of the creation of the what happened on that.

And this is Charlie Lieber. Yeah, I would make a comment on that, too. I think it almost has to be after the sixth day because of the declaration of everything. He saw was very good. Right. I can't see the fall of Satan before that.

But sometime between then and when he shows up in the garden is when he would have that's an excellent point. Yeah, well that because that that does great disaster to the gap theory. So there's actually a reason I have you in the studio.

Well, I hope so.

Just I mean it's kind of off topic but very quickly, what do you think. I've heard the theory posed by some that.

The.

The account of Lucifer rebelling in heaven and so on is not necessarily the same entity as Satan. Have you heard that. And what is your your thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on that?

And my thoughts would okay.

That's not our topic today, but I was just curious because of the I'm hearing that from not liberals and not not even old earth Creationists or anything like that. I'm hearing that's from conservative Inerrancy advocates.

Just was curious we have Joe in Slovenia. Joe says hello brothers Chris William and I will include Charlie here because I guess he didn't know Charlie was gonna be on. One of the most common objections I hear from those doubting the literal historicity of Adam is That there are so many different races or ethnicities present on earth today.

They doubt that all this diversity could come from just two original parents. One line of reasoning that I've heard is that Adam and Eve contained the total of all possible features within their perfect DNA then after the confusion of the languages at the Tower of Babel and Division of the people into nations which then scattered across the globe the smaller gene pools over time concentrated the narrower range of possible characteristics Into the ethnicities we recognize today.

Is this a valid and plausible? Explanation of the situation. Are there other aspects from Scripture science and history that further corroborate Acts? 17 26. I don't even I don't even know why. Someone would find it hard to believe That two parents could give birth to so many different people with With facial features and skin tones when even in the same families today We see sometimes a wide variety of characteristics and children of the same parents.

I don't know I'm just I don't know why that would be such a leap of.

Logic to to believe that you have to look at the the structure genetics. Okay, genetics come in in pairs and there's two kinds. So the diversity of John Adam and Eve is pretty simple. They have the diversity of all mankind which means they have one capital letter or one dominant than one recessive gene in every case.

Which means all of humankind can come from those two individuals. It's not really a genetic problem. It's a problem more of people are arguing about the amount of time it takes. But it doesn't take much time at all because you look at the people today is tremendous.

Genetic diversity has been radically declined. I mean who did Abraham marry? You married his half-sister. Was it a problem? No later on would God would say you can't do that because what genetics are gonna dictate.

Problems with the progeny. Another thing we know about skin color is as it sorts out through natural selection. Which is a real process in nature as it sorts out. You get the darkest skin at the equator and then lighter skin as you go north or south.

So that's actually a working out of the of the thing related to the position of the Sun and the people that are living there. The people that are more adaptable survive simple. That's not evolution people.

Well, we have time for only one more questioner because of the fact that our guest has to leave to make an appointment. We have Susan Susan Margaret and Dauphin County, Pennsylvania who wants to know.

What do you think the one most significant reason that? Christendom began to adopt an unbiblical view of Adam is I.

Believe in it. Oh, I remember that coming up in an interview. I did with Fred years ago. Yeah, and just realizing, you know, some of the implications and and I think some of the. What not in the 19th century?

Well, I want to let all of you know who wrote in questions. You've all won a.

Free copy of the quest for the historical Adam by our guest William Vandewaard and this is compliments of Reformation heritage books. The website for Reformation heritage books is heritage books org. Heritage books org.

The website for Puritan reform theological seminary where our guest dr William Vandewaard serves on the faculty is Prts .edu PR for Puritan reform TS for theological seminary dot edu Prts .edu. Do you have any other further contact information that you'd like to give brother?

Yeah, I would love to have you on for the full two hours at some point in the future because as you see the time Flies by very quickly on iron trip inside radio. It does. Well, thank you very much brother.

And we look forward to your return. Thank you. Okay, and don't go away folks because our second guest is going to be joining us at any moment and that is Dr. Terry Mortensen. Dr. Terry Mortensen is returning for his third discussion with us on his book searching for Adam Genesis and the truth about man's origins and if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for dr Mortensen our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

That's ch r is a r n z n at gmail .com. Please give us as always your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA and Please only remain anonymous if you are asking about a personal and private matter.

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Well now we have joining us for the remainder of the show Dr. Terry Mortensen who received his Master of Divinity degree from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School his PhD in history of geology at Coventry University he is a historian of geology and researcher for answers in Genesis a lecturer on the creation evolution controversy in 25 countries since the late 1970s.

He's a university campus ministry leader in the United States and Eastern Europe with campus crusade for Christ. He's the author of many articles and books including the great turning point and the editor and contributor For coming to grips with Genesis and he is going to be discussing for the third time on our program Searching for Adam Genesis and the truth about man's origin.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio. Dr. Terry Mortensen. Good to be with you and in studio with me again is my frequent co-host Charlie Liebert founder of six day creation calm.

You might want to say that again. Charlie had you on mute. Well, this is a Very vital topic as we have even begun to learn about. From our first guest who is on today. Dr. William Vandewort. And by the way, dr. Mortensen He was speaking very highly of you and your work before you came on the program today.

I just wanted to let you know that.

And so.

Tell us once again About why you believed the book. Searching for Adam. Genesis and the truth about man's origin was a needed volume. To be included on our library shelves and to be included most of all in our minds.

The content. Of course to be included in our minds when there are other things available on the historicity of Adam.

Most of them mainly dealt with theological The theological side of the issue and I felt that there was a need for a much Adam Looking at it. His plea theologically genetically Even anatomically the difference between man and apes in terms of our physical arrangement and then ethically and and Archaeologically volume that dealt with all of those different angles to show that there's a really full orbed defense of Adam that is intellectually very credible and.

Satisfying by the way, dr. Mortensen, I don't know if you're using a speakerphone or a cell phone. But whatever you're doing the way that you were just speaking a second ago is perfect. But there were a couple occasions where you faded out nearly completely during your response.

So, oh, yeah, in fact, it's happening again right now.

Yeah.

Now I can hear you good. Well fairly good. I guess what we'll just have to we'll have to cope with the in-and-out syndrome here. Well, I'm gonna go to some of our questioners in our audience. Let's see, we have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, and I have to enlarge Tyler's font on his email because it's microscopic.

He says is it true that when scientists discovered that the universe had a beginning? It was troubling to them because it reflected the Genesis Historical account of creation. I'm not sure exactly what he is referring to about Scientists discovering that the universe had a beginning.

Is there some News that I missed where scientists are you not unanimously agreeing that the universe had a beginning of some kind?

Pointed to a beginning because you start with The universe in a very very very tiny Highly dense bit of matter energy and space and it expanded Supposedly according to the theory and to the universe we have today.

But are uncomfortable with that idea. But they shouldn't have worried about it because the Big Bang Theory is completely incompatible With the Genesis one account of creation which says that God created the earth Before he created the sun moon and stars so that the Big Bang Theory is not a scientific description of Genesis 1 In fact actually an attack on the truth of Genesis 1.

But some scientists who don't read the Bible very carefully and are so committed to atheism They became nervous that it might point to a beginner but Big Bang proponents the Big Bang doesn't point to a beginner because The Big Bang was preceded by a big crunch of a previous universe Which has expanded from a tiny speck of matter energy, which had? Crunched from a previous universe.

So they talk about multiverses. Of course, we only have scientific evidence for one universe and that's the one we live in. Well, thank you Tyler.

And if you haven't won it already from our previous interviews with dr. Mortensen, you have won today a Copy of his book Searching for Adam. So make sure we have your full mailing address. This is a $24 .99 book Retailing for $24 .99 and this is a gift to you from new leaf publishing group also known as master publishing one of the Subsidiaries of new leaf publishing group and We are also thanking our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com for shipping that out to you at no charge to you or to iron trip and Zion radio.

So thank you very much for your participant participation today. We have Joey in Clifton, New Jersey. He says dear. Dr. Mortensen. I have been very sad to see even some of the more traditional biblically sound churches such as the PCA and OPC which for our listeners who aren't familiar with those.

Those.

Those initials or abbreviations. That's the Presbyterian Church in America and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church now holding to framework and even day age theories of Genesis 1. As You well know these views hold to a reinterpretation of the Hebrew word Yom or day in Genesis 1 to be long.

To be a long to be long time spans or ages rather than roughly 24 hours. Their thinking is that as long as they believe in the supernatural creation of man apart from an evolutionary process These views still fall within the scope of orthodoxy.

However, I fear that once we give ground on simple and clear Interpretations such as the simple meaning of the word day Everything else opens up for redefinition furthermore lay people who are less familiar With the issues will almost inevitably associate long Timeframes with evolution.

My question for you is what steps would you take to reach these individuals? Especially given That in spite of their strong biblical literacy They are very convinced on this subject. Have you found any particular approach useful?

Let me just quickly add that not everyone in the PCA or OPC Holds to those views. In fact, my co-host Charlie Liebert Who is founder of six day creation comm is a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

Yes, that's correct Chris. So I'm sure you're more dismayed than even our listener is that any of that would be at all present in your denomination?

I'm dismayed most about the framework hypothesis. I think that's a an escape but dr.

Mortensen, do you have a an answer to Joey and Clifton, New Jersey's question?

The beginning of the 19th century when geology was developed as a science and people embraced the gap theory. The local flood view and then Darwin's theory came along and they said, okay.

Well.

We can accept animal evolution, but not human evolution. And then Darwin publishes descent of man and 1871 and then much of the church said okay can accept human evolution of the body. But God breathed into and ape-like creature.

And then of course the liberals finally jettisoned Adam completely. And now and Evangelicals are just a few decades behind the liberals and we now have. Dr. Mortensen, dr. Mortensen, we could barely hear you at all.

I know.

Yeah, I don't know what's going on.

But.

Yeah, that would be it. That would be perfect because we have to go to a midway break anyway. Okay, great. And if anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Don't go away. God willing. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsor.

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