July 15, 2022 Show with Virgil Walker on “My Letter to Black Pastors: A Challenge to Repent from the Apathy Over & Advocacy of Abortion”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister

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George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

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This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this 15th day of June 2022, and I'm thrilled to have one of my favorite recurring guests back on the program.

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He will be no stranger to the vast majority of our audience. His name is Virgil Walker, executive director of operations at G3 Ministries, co -host with Daryl Bernard Harrison of the

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Just Thinking podcast, and co -author with Daryl Bernard Harrison of Why Are You Afraid?

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and a number of other books. Today we are going to be addressing something extremely vital, and this is

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Virgil's letter to black pastors, a challenge to repent from the apathy over and advocacy of infanticide, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Virgil Walker.

02:20

Hey, it's always a joy to be with you, Chris. Thanks for having me and looking forward to our conversation today.

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And as we always do, for the sake of those who have not yet heard about you, which is,

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I know, probably very rare, especially in my audience, but tell our listeners about G3 Ministries.

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Sure, G3 Ministries was a massive conference, a conference -based ministry that has really shifted its kind of direction in that not that we're not doing conferences anymore, but from a standpoint of wanting to be a content -driven ministry.

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We have every desire to connect with local church pastors. Our goal is to educate, equip, and encourage the local church in every area, everything we do.

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We've launched G3 Press, where we're cranking out great works for pastors and lay people to take advantage of, everything from commentaries to books.

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In fact, the book you just mentioned, Why Are You Afraid?, was a book that Daryl and I co -authored, and it's on G3 Press.

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And so we're excited about that curriculum for churches. You name it, we're producing it. So really,

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I've shifted focus to really drive home the point that while it's wonderful to come to and attend conferences, and we'll continue to do that.

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We'll have a regional conference coming up, which I'm sure we'll talk about, and a national conference thereafter that we're engaged in.

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We really wanted to be able to, as a ministry as a whole, equip the body of Christ, again, encourage, educate, and equip local church pastors.

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That's what we do. That's what we're engaged in. Again, G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and it's a ministry that's founded by Dr.

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Josh Bice, who is its founder and president. Myself, I'm the executive director of operations, and so I actually provide oversight for a big portion of all of the conference pieces.

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In addition to the conferences, we have expository preaching workshops, we have worship workshops that we do at local churches, and then our executive vice president, editor -in -chief,

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Scott Annual, he's providing oversight for all of the print materials and all the books and things like that that we develop.

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So great team of people. It's fantastic to get up and get to work every day knowing that what we're doing really is making a difference.

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Amen. And the website, for those of you interested in finding out more about G3 Ministries, is g3min .org,

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G -3 -M -I -N .org. Now, tell us about the

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Just Thinking podcast that you co -host with Darrell Bernard Harrison. Yeah.

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Just Thinking is the brainchild, actually, of Darrell Bernard Harrison.

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He had a blog by the same name, Just Thinking for Myself is the name of his blog, and he'd been writing that for quite some time.

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He and I connected right around 2000, I believe it was December 2017 was when we first connected and then launched shortly thereafter the podcast in 2018.

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To date, I think we've got 119 shows, episodes that we've done and growing regularly.

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We try to connect once a month now to do a podcast, an episode, but for those who are thinking once a month's not often, these are three -hour -long podcasts.

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So there's a lot of meat to chew on for quite some time. We've been doing this for the last four years or so, loving what we're doing.

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We've been a top 10 Christian podcast in the country over the course of those years off and on, and we absolutely love what we do.

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We take the issues of culture and examine them through the lens of a biblical worldview, and it's something that Darrell and I really, really enjoy, just talking to one another about issues regarding the culture.

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The most recent episode that we just dropped is called Cultural Denominationalism, and really it was kind of the linchpin coming out of the

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Southern Baptist Convention, thinking about how churches start out with denominations going in the right direction, and then we gave kind of warning signs and issues to be watchful for as people begin to take the wrong direction.

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So that episode is a three -hour episode, so anybody who's listening for the first time, not used to an expository podcast would definitely need to buckle up, sit down, get ready to take notes, because we're definitely taking you somewhere with that particular episode.

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Amen. And the website for that podcast and ministry is JustThinking .me.

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Yep, absolutely. Yes, sir. JustThinking .me. Now, I, God willing, am going to be manning an exhibitor's booth at a couple of events coming up where you are going to be speaking, the first of which is going to be at High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, on Saturday, August 20th.

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It is titled The Just Thinking Conference, and I believe you're going to be highlighting a critique of critical race theory.

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If you could let our listeners know about that event, then perhaps if they are unbelievably in the dark over critical race theory, since it seems to be the topic of discussion almost daily in the media, why don't you let our listeners know about this conference and its theme?

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Yeah, it's going to be exciting to be there and to connect with the folks at High Point. With regard to issues in their local geography, what they're seeing is

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CRT really creep into the educational systems, and so for parents who have kids in public school settings, they're not calling it

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CRT. They're really kind of disguising some of the language, some of the issues that surround it.

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This church, mindfully, said, you know what, let's bring the guys who've studied this stuff and have looked at it and have them walk us through it.

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Daryl and I intend to do an incredibly deep dive, walking them through the worldview from which a lot of this stuff originates, its

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Marxist origins. We're going to, in addition to that, be talking to them about how it went from something late in the 20th century to where we are now, where we're seeing it almost on a daily basis really invade every facet of culture, everything from health care to climate issues, reproductive rights.

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You name it, it's there, and so it will be important for us to talk about those issues, unpack those poor people, and then to show them, unfortunately, how those ideologies have crept into the church.

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When Daryl talks about these issues, he likes to say they don't just creep into the church, they actually kick the door down and walk right into some of the spaces and places that call themselves a church.

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We'll be walking through that in great detail, looking forward to meeting with the people up there, but they will be putting in work that weekend, that's for sure.

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Yeah, not only do the leftist government schools mask their inclusion of critical race theory, they actually publicly, very often, outright deny that it exists in their curriculum, and do so sometimes with a laughing sneer.

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And the thing that's ironic is that if they really believe in critical race theory, why are they ashamed of it?

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Absolutely. A lot of them are disguising it now in things like social -emotional learning, and when they use that language again, it's a veneer to kind of cloud what they're doing, because like you said, they're not proud of it because everybody now knows what it is and has rejected it.

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So they come in with a social -emotional learning. The learning standards are based upon issues of ethnicity or social class or culture, rather than right being right, wrong being wrong, and regardless of whether or not a student had a background in the area or not, then working to teach that young person what they need to know from an academic level to do well, doing well now is seen as racist.

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Good grades are now seen as racist. Being to class on time is now seen as racist. So it's an absolute, just jumbled up mess that, again, we intend to unpack and walk some folks through when we're there at High Point.

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You know, that's an interesting inclusion in that description. Being on time to class is racist.

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And in reality, what is racist is the idea that all black people come to class late.

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That's racist! Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, but that's not how folks are thinking nowadays.

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I mean, just everywhere you turn it seems to be that, ideologically speaking, things are just absolutely upside down.

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But that's exactly what we should expect when people abandon a biblical worldview. And, by the way, a little correction, this is a two -day conference.

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It's Saturday, August 20th through Sunday, August 21st. And the theme is

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Deliver the Truth, Confronting the Error of Critical Race. And that is at High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania.

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The website there is highpointbaptist .com. Highpointbaptist .com.

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And finally, in regard to events, I am so excited to be attending once again the

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G3 conference. Although I've attended and manned my exhibitors booth for Iron Truck and Zion Radio at many

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G3 conferences, this is my first regional conference. And, in fact, it's going to be my first time in Washington, D .C.

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in years. I haven't been in Washington, D .C. other than passing through it in a train. I have not been in Washington, D .C.

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since I was a young child in grammar school going on a field trip. But tell us about the

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G3 regional conference 2022 in Washington, D .C. Yeah, Daryl and I are extremely excited because G3, the ministry of G3, has teamed up with Just Thinking to bring you this conference,

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Just Thinking, about the Bible. It's a conference that has a focus on the sufficiency of Scripture.

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And the reality is everywhere we turn, whether it's issues of anthropology, whether it's issues of hermeneutology with sin, if it's issues of soteriology, seeing the idea of Christ being our

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Savior has been abandoned for government as Savior. Wherever we turn and look, what we're recognizing is that culture has abandoned

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God and has embraced man -made ideology. Sadly, again, the church has effectively followed suit.

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I know we're going to talk about that to some degree during our time together today. But we wanted to anchor our folks, especially as the fall hits, back into the truth of Scripture, the sufficiency of Scripture to handle and address every issue that we can come into contact with.

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Daryl and I have done that now for the last three years very publicly, and hopefully four years, very openly and publicly on the

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Just Thinking podcast, and so we really want to take some folks through particular subject matters, particular issues, and then let them know that the

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Bible is sufficient. Daryl and I will probably be handling most of the cultural kind of heavy lift of the apologetic component of the idea around biblical sufficiency.

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But in addition to that, you'll also have Dr. Stephen Lawson, Dr. James White, Dr.

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Josh Bice, who will also be there helping with a lot of the theological, strengthening the theological and historical components of arguments for biblical sufficiency.

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In addition, Dr. Scott Annual will be joining us as well, and I think,

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I haven't verified this with him, but he's got something up his sleeve, and I definitely know folks won't want to miss what he's going to deliver.

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If he brings a subject matter that I think he's going to bring with regard to the sufficiency of Scripture in explaining and describing the doctrine regarding the

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Holy Spirit, I think it's going to be incredibly powerful. So those are just some of the things that we're going to do.

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We will spend two days at an annual Bible church there in Virginia just outside of D .C.,

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and so the cost is really something that I know folks are concerned about, but we've mitigated that to a great degree by actually hosting the majority of our time there at the conference on Thursday and Friday there at the church, followed by a

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Saturday visit to the Museum of the Bible where folks will hear a couple of presentations, and then what will follow thereafter will be people have the opportunity to go through the museum on Saturday, so that will kind of wrap up our time together.

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But yeah, we're looking forward to this. It's going to be an amazing time. We've got a number of folks who signed up for that, and here's the thing that I'll While I'm here on your show, for a limited time we'll offer a discount code for 30 % if folks go in and register and use the code

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G3JT, okay? So if they use the code G3, G, the number three,

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JT, they'll get 30 % off in the way of a discount on their registration.

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Wow, and that's JT for just thinking. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, and that's going to be

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Thursday, September 15th, and Saturday, September 17th in Washington, D .C.

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The website for more details is g3min .org, G3 -M -I -N .org,

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and that's one week before my annual, or should I say biannual, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon, and this year we are featuring

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Dr. James R. White, since D .C. is not very far from where I am right now, and so you will be hearing ads for the

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Pastors Conference if you are a man in ministry leadership, whether you are a pastor, an elder, and by the way, folks,

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I believe that's the same office, a deacon, any kind of a parachurch leader, you are welcome to this free conference, and that will be

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Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the

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Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, which is in Perry County, Pennsylvania, and you will hear the ads to give you more details.

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Well, that brings us to our theme today, a very controversial theme.

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You wrote a letter, an open letter, to black pastors, and I want you to let our listeners know what the motivation was for you to do this, and just to let our listeners know, they might not be aware of this, but my guest

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Virgil Walker is a black man. I don't think that the melanin content in his skin gives him the only liberty, or to give him only the liberty, and those with shared skin color, to write such a letter, but I think that to many it would seem, it would appear to be an act of racism otherwise.

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I don't believe that that's a fact, unless of course the person writing the letter was in fact a bigot of some kind, but it does add power to the letter,

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I believe, just because of the mindset that is ingrained into the populace globally, especially in the 21st century.

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But why did you, as a black ministry leader, write this letter to pastors, and what was the motivation behind it and the theme?

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Yeah, thanks for asking the question. For me, as a lot of folks are aware of the

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Roe v. Wade, the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the Dobbs -Jackson decision that came out, you began to see within evangelical circles a few typical responses.

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One, you had folks like me who had been on the front lines of that battle for years.

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I spent quite a bit of time in front of an abortion clinic for the course of about six years, regularly, consistently, pleading for the lives of the babies that were walking in, the mothers pleading with the mothers for the lives of the babies that were in their womb.

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And so, having been on that side, never thinking in my lifetime that I would see the overturning of Roe, I was absolutely ecstatic.

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And I think that's a natural response for anyone who cares about these issues, who's involved in trying to rescue these little ones, that would be the response.

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Unfortunately, what I began to witness was an evangelical response that was varied. So you had folks who were happy.

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You also had folks who wanted to temper that, wanted folks to temper that.

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And their thought process was, well, pro -life really isn't fully pro -life until we provide womb -to -the -tomb benefits for mothers who are having these children, and that we really haven't done our job yet until we've provided that kind of a resource.

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And so, you had that response. And then, finally, you had the folks who, you know, were silent, absolutely silent on the issue.

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And I was really, I really made note of the folks who were silent on the issue. As I've continued to survey culture, specifically because the black church, the quote -unquote black church, is something

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I came from, right? We definitely recognize that there's only one true church, and that church is not made up of one color or another.

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But I think folks understand what I kind of label a predominantly black church as the black church. Coming from that cultural background,

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I thought, let me see what some of the guys that I know in those spaces are saying. And I was absolutely jaw -dropped, not simply by the silence, but by the absolute promotion of issues that point women to a pro -choice position.

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Pastors who emphatically said in the pulpit that, you know what, God is pro -life, but God is also pro -choice.

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And what they meant by that, or what they were trying to leverage, was that God gives us choice with the idea that God would promote the murder of the babies in the womb.

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They wanted to convolute those issues so that people would, they could be ambiguous about their positions.

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And so, as I began to see that not once, not twice, but time and time and time and time again,

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I just, I really truly got fed up and decided that I was going to pen this letter to black pastors, specifically address those who

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I knew and were aware of that were silent, one in particular, and then to turn the page as well and unpack what these pastors had said in their pulpit, out of their mouths, and expose how wrong -headed that was, and to call them to repentance.

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So that was a motivation that really started me on this journey. Yeah, and it's interesting how many in the pro -infanticide movement have revealed their hand, their real heart and mind, in that they are not really pro -choice at all.

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That's why they are vandalizing and burning down the clinics that are there to help women and encourage women and enable women to bring their children to full term and give birth to them.

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And it's, the irony is they say they're pro -choice and they are filled with rage when women make the choice to keep their babies.

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That's exactly right. And what, I think you were spot on. It, A, shows their hand when this is the outcome.

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And even worse than that, it absolutely exposes the vile wickedness of the pro -choice position.

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It exposes how really not just pro -choice they are, but how pro -death they are.

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That what we're dealing with from a cultural standpoint are people who are involved in a religion of death.

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This for them, abortion for them, is a sacrament.

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And the blood sacrifice is the aborted fetus. This is how they view these kinds of things.

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One of the things that I've recognized time and time again as I've spent time in front of abortion clinics is the idea that the predominance of women who are approaching these clinics are victims is an absolute lie.

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The vast majority of them celebrated their abortion.

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We're fine with what they were doing. We're very clear and aware, clear -eyed and comfortable with the decision that we're making.

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And they were just willing to sacrifice their babies on the altar of convenience. They didn't want to be inconvenienced.

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They wanted to live their lives their way. And that was their primary motivation.

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As it pertains to these pastors in churches who are advocating, making the choice to have an abortion,

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I was dumbstruck, absolutely dumbstruck. And, again, like I said, it really caused me to sit down and pen this particular article and started out with thinking through who would they listen to, who's a leader that many of them

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The idea of leveraging, at least in imagery,

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Martin Luther King Jr. was helpful, though at the end of my article you recognize how wrongheaded he actually was about the issue.

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I leveraged the idea of a letter from a Birmingham jail. And this letter was written while King knew that he'd have a much larger audience than the immediate audience that he was encountering.

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I, too, knew that though I'm writing a letter to black pastors, I would have a much larger audience given the platform that God's blessed with.

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I'd have a much larger audience who would be able to see the issues and identify where there were shortcomings.

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And so I used the letter from a Birmingham jail. Mine was a letter to black pastors. And then began addressing how

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I came to the place where I felt this letter was incredibly important.

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Well, we are going to our first station break. If you have a question for Virgil Walker on his letter to black pastors, which is basically a challenge to repent of the apathy over and the advocacy of infanticide, send in your email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

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U .S .A. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter. Don't go away.

27:50

We'll be right back with Virgil Walker. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here, excited to announce that my longtime friend

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Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.

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for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

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Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co -hosts of the

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Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

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and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

28:50

So join me and Chris Arnson September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C.

28:56

for the G3 Ministries regional conference. Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org,

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that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

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Attention all men in ministry leadership. You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m.

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to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring me,

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Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

35:53

Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is

36:02

Virgil Walker of G3 Ministries. We are addressing his letter to black pastors, which is a challenge to repent from the apathy over and advocacy of infanticide, if you have a question.

36:15

Our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

36:22

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside of the

36:27

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are a member of a church and you're at odds with your own pastor over the topic we are addressing, or perhaps you're a pastor and you're at odds with your own fellow elders or your denomination over this issue, or whatever other reason would compel you to remain anonymous, we understand that.

36:52

But if it's a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Before we go to any listener questions,

37:01

Virgil, I just want to have some other things explained by you.

37:07

It is such, it seems to be such common knowledge today that the abortion industry has its roots in racism.

37:20

And of course you and I are going to be using that term throughout this broadcast. We know that there's only one race, it's the human race.

37:27

We're just using the term racism because it's a part of the common vernacular, which is a bigoted attitude towards someone due to the melanin content in their skin or their ethnic origin.

37:44

But it is so commonly known and can be easily verifiable and confirmed that the abortion industry has its roots in eugenics, which was a movement very big in the late 19th century and early 20th century, whereby there was a movement upon scientists and those in the elite white classes that were determined to eventually have all other races eradicated from the face of the earth, perhaps especially the black people.

38:32

And Margaret Sanger first envisioned forced sterilization to be one way of achieving this, or at least to begin with voluntary sterilization using, as she had even documented in her own words, black pastors to convince their congregation that this was actually the most loving and merciful thing to do.

39:02

But then the later domino effects would be the forced sterilization and then the murder of the unborn in the womb.

39:14

But how could there possibly be those in leadership in the black community or representatives of the black community who are in leadership over those in all racial and ethnic groups, depending upon what political office they hold, that they are advocating, if indeed they are pro -choice, they're advocating the genocide of the black race, and it seems to be astonishing that there would be those who are ignorant of this who are able to achieve political authority.

39:56

It is staggering to think that pastors would be in favor of this, but it is not surprising.

40:03

Going back to Sanger and eugenics, eugenics is a false scientific theory that by proper breeding of certain races, and again, you've already covered the ground regarding what a biblical worldview entails, that there's one human race, that there are multiple ethnicities.

40:24

However, during that time, the thought was that there were different races of people, and if bred properly, could ultimately achieve the best race of all.

40:36

I mean, this is where the Aryan race and Hitler and his ideology comes from.

40:42

With Sanger, you have positive eugenics, which is the idea of taking folks who were the right size, height, weight, had the right intellect, and making sure that those people married, so you had positive eugenics.

40:57

And then you have the negative eugenics, which you discussed, which really was the forced sterilization at points in time in our country's history of certain people who were deemed either feeble -minded or weren't the best, the dregs of society, so to speak, as Sanger and folks like her began to think.

41:18

She had convinced pastors in the 1930s, late 30s, early 40s, that this idea of sterilization and quote -unquote family planning was beneficial.

41:32

And Sanger and then like her thought that the way that they sold this idea to pastors was this was the economic way up.

41:39

This was the way for you to have fewer kids, you'd have more money for yourselves, and you'd be able to climb the ladder of success.

41:49

The problem with that was twofold. One, blacks were already from a financial standpoint, relatively speaking, doing well during that time frame.

41:57

And then secondarily, what you had going on was this idea that if we want to assimilate into what white culture says, we're going to follow what this lady says.

42:06

And so you had these duped pastors who followed what she said and began teaching and preaching these ideas that brought about,

42:14

A, eugenics, and B, would eventually bring about abortion. Now, what's happened is Planned Parenthood and other organizations have gone through and whitewashed a number of the things that she said.

42:25

So today it's more difficult, unless you have original source material, her own writings, to verify what she's actually said.

42:33

If you go onto Planned Parenthood's website now, they'll have all this stuff about Margaret Sanger, and they'll have the revisionist history about the things that she said, and changing it so that its meaning sounds a little bit lighter to the ear.

42:46

But the reality is that was her diabolical plan, and it works more now today than ever.

42:52

Today what pastors are doing is they're really beholden to the feminist movement that actually promoted women like Sanger.

43:01

They're seeing that in their churches and in their congregations, women have bought onto the idea,

43:06

A, that they don't need men, particularly in black settings. A, they don't need men. Statistics show that only one in four are actually married.

43:15

So their thought is, hey, we don't need men. We've been married to the government. Or, I've got so much education,

43:20

I don't need a husband to help take care of me or have any traditional form of idea or identity connected back to our

43:34

Judeo -Christian founding, that one man, one woman is a great idea to produce children. It provides a wonderful foundation.

43:40

They've abandoned that whole notion for the idea that if they can get a job, do well, and not have anything impede their success, meaning that as long as they don't have to have a child, they're able to continue to climb the corporate ladder and move forward.

43:56

Well, churches are now packed, not with men. Black churches in particular are packed, not with men, but with a lot of women.

44:02

And so in an effort to appeal to these women, today's pastor advocates for those things that he believes the women in his congregation would want, and the vast majority of them, sadly, prefer.

44:15

They got to where they did by having abortions and by advocating for this kind of idea.

44:20

That's how you get the whole turnaround today where black pastors are advocating these horrific ideas and notions.

44:28

I know that you're a lot younger than me, Virgil, but I can remember in the late 70s, perhaps in the early 80s, when

44:38

Faye Waddleton was elected president of Planned Parenthood, and she debated

44:47

Randall Terry, who was the founder and leader of Operation Rescue, a pro -life organization.

44:53

And during that debate at some point, Randall Terry kept repeating to Faye Waddleton the question, how could you, a black woman, be president of an organization that was founded to eradicate the black race off of the face of the earth?

45:15

And Faye Waddleton must have known this because she, over and over again, completely ignored the question.

45:25

She kept trying to speak over Randall Terry as if he didn't even exist, as if he wasn't in the room, and she was just totally ignoring the fact that this very important question was being asked.

45:38

Is it your experience, or at least your impression, that many of these people in leadership, whether they be in the clergy or in political office, are really aware of this, but they just for some reason have been duped and convinced that it is most expedient, and for the betterment of their status, their power, their success, to maintain the myths that leftist bigots have produced and continue to perpetuate?

46:22

In my mind, Chris, I think that's a great point that you make in kind of thinking through.

46:29

At the end of the day, I think that no pastor today, no black pastor in particular, like the folks in the 30s and 40s, has been duped.

46:41

You may be able to make an argument. There may be an argument that's made, perhaps that Sanger did a great job of duping a number of black leaders in the late 30s and 40s to believing that A, this was only voluntary sterilization, and B, that it was to the benefit of black people for the purpose of their economic empowerment.

47:03

That kind of a storyline might have worked during that time frame. Today, sadly,

47:09

I think what's happened is that what you have is the tribalism that is a part of the

47:16

African American community to the degree that they would end up voting for the Democratic Party to the point where 90 % of the votes in black communities are actually anchored in the

47:33

Democratic Party. In order to maintain their quote -unquote black card, they have to vote

47:39

Democratic. As a result, pastors are having to find themselves advocating for these positions.

47:47

Now, I don't believe that they wrestle with this. I don't believe that they think, oh,

47:53

I really am going to have a hard time in the pulpit talking about this. No, I think they've been bought and sold by a

48:00

Democratic Party who has signed off on this cult of death.

48:07

These pastors have no choice but to continue to promote it. I'll give you a quick example.

48:14

That is that during the presidential run of Barack Obama, you had him meeting with Rick Warren.

48:22

And then on the issue of homosexuality, he said during that time, you know what, he knew the right answer to provide.

48:33

The right answer was marriage is between a man and a woman. He's thought about it. That's kind of where he lands.

48:38

So that rang good for the evangelical ear. But years later, as he walks into this idea of having evolved from that position into one where now the

48:50

White House, after the Obergefell decision, is painted in rainbow colors, rainbow lights, black pastors, because they had latched their wagon to Barack Obama, had to go along with them.

49:04

They would not in any way, shape, or form vocally or openly address the anti -biblical positions that he had.

49:14

And so these folks aren't duped by any stretch of the imagination. This is what they've latched their wagon to, and that's the direction they're headed.

49:20

Now, in your experience, do you believe, as I have heard, that there is a substantial divide, very often, and perhaps not every case, but very often there's a substantial divide and contrast between the average

49:44

African -American church and their clergy and what the clergy advocates and pushes, and what the congregation individually advocates and pushes?

49:58

I have heard, for instance, that the majority of professing black

50:06

Christians, no matter how they vote politically, are pro -life.

50:13

They are pro -biblical marriage and anti -same -sex marriage.

50:20

In fact, when I was living in New York, when the legalization of same -sex marriage was in the forefront of the political arena and constantly the focus of TV, radio, and newspaper and magazine articles, there was quite a significant outcry against this, even by the black clergy who are liberal in most of their ways, at least liberal in the way they voted.

51:03

And even some of the black politicians in the earlier years of 2000 and in the late 90s.

51:13

So that's just speaking about the same -sex issue. But as far as the clergy and congregation divide, do you believe that that is actually an accurate assessment, that the clergy tend to be far more leftist?

51:30

Well, I would argue that – first, let me answer that emphatically, no. No, that's not the case.

51:37

There was a time, and I would argue after the election of Barack Obama, that that time died.

51:44

But prior to that, there was a time, the time you mentioned in the late 90s, where blacks, for the most part, were fiscally liberal.

51:58

Financially, economically liberal, meaning that they wanted to see their government provide big government cash bailouts of every kind, way, shape, and form.

52:09

Any kind of government assistance, government programs. They were voting for the person who shared that kind of a vision, followed by someone who was socially conservative, because most of them had grown up in church, had a mother or a grandmother, a praying grandmother who'd taken them to church.

52:28

So they had heard all the do's and don'ts, all the rights and wrongs. And so that's kind of how, for the most part, blacks operated.

52:35

But after – I'm going to argue right after the election of Barack Obama, all bets were off. They had hitched their wagon,

52:42

A, to the Democratic Party, and B, to all of the ideological positions that they held.

52:48

And a lot of this had to do – again, I mean, we could go back and unpack the single motherhood at 70 percent in the black community.

52:56

Those women do not want to be told that they're wrong in their behavior. Many of them do abort their child.

53:04

Those who don't hold on to those children, they don't want to be at a church where someone is telling them that what they did in the way of promiscuity was wrong.

53:13

So these pastors – it's not that the pastors hold this leftist ideology that they're enforcing upon a weak congregation.

53:25

It's that the vast majority of the congregation holds these ideas, and so it behooves the pastor to get up and lead in that way.

53:34

One quick example was – In fact, could you bring up the example when we come back from our midway break, because we have to go to the midway break?

53:40

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That's also the email address where you can send in a question for Virgil Walker, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:10:25

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence. Before I go to the listener questions,

01:10:30

Daryl, we were right in the middle of a discussion before the break about how you no longer believe there is a significant divide ideologically between the leftist clergy in black congregations and the members of the congregation.

01:10:50

There was a time, you believe, where that was the case, where you may have had typically, before the election of Barack Obama to president of the

01:10:59

United States, there may have been more of a typical divide between clergy and congregation in regard to matters such as same -sex marriage and abortion.

01:11:12

And you believe that Barack Obama somehow, with the help of Satan himself, no doubt, has removed that stronger barrier that used to exist.

01:11:24

If you could pick up where you left off. Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that during that election cycle in particular, men, respected men and women, really had latched on to the idol of ethnicity and had really pushed the envelope where, regardless of what the individual stood for, they simply wanted to be part of the quote -unquote historic moment.

01:11:51

And as a result, they abandoned core beliefs in an effort to bow the knee to skin color.

01:11:57

And so a lot of black pastors, not all, not all, but many, most in fact, ended up bowing the knee and serving the idol of ethnicity.

01:12:07

And you see that continue to be carried out. But culturally speaking, in these churches, the idea that these pastors are really taking the lead and leading the congregation in a direction that they'd rather not go is a misnomer.

01:12:23

That's not happening. These men and women who congregate are those who are bringing to themselves those leaders, those quote -unquote shepherds, who desire to tickle their ears.

01:12:37

And so they found teachers willing to do that, and that's who they go and sit in front of.

01:12:43

And so that's actually what's happening. To the degree that it is, I was wanting to provide an example, and it really goes back to the article that I wrote to black pastors.

01:12:53

I was just absolutely jaw -dropped to see in my own area you had pastors who were willing to stand in the pulpit and say things that were absolutely outrageous.

01:13:06

You had one Jamal Bryant of New Earth Missionary Baptist Church here in Georgia step to the pulpit and really gave kind of an opening monologue.

01:13:17

I have some of his words here from my article. I want to share with you a few of these words because they're important to get an idea of what's happening.

01:13:25

He said this, quote, This week America has turned back the hands of time and declared war on women in this nation.

01:13:33

He said, I want us to stand and to say to this nation that if America were authentically pro -life, they would immediately abolish the death penalty.

01:13:43

If they were really pro -life, they would put more money into Head Start programs. If they were really pro -life, they would seek to cure the opiate addiction in this nation.

01:13:53

If they were really pro -life, they would make teachers feel safe in their schools.

01:13:59

If they were really pro -life, there would be stricter measures regarding gun control in this nation, end quote.

01:14:04

And he shared this not to an audience that was a little bit put off by what he said on that morning.

01:14:11

He said this to an audience that continued their approval.

01:14:17

They were clapping. They were standing on their feet in approval of this idea. So in my article,

01:14:24

I didn't have time to take apart every single one of the issues he raised, but I first started with the very first one that he mentioned about being, you know, if America were pro -life, they would immediately abolish the death penalty.

01:14:40

For any person claiming the name of Christ, not to understand that there's a vast difference between an innocent child in the womb and someone who is convicted of murder, murdering another individual.

01:14:58

If they were simply beholden to their Bible, they would know that in Leviticus 24, 17, the

01:15:05

Scripture clearly states that whoever takes a man's life, his life shall be taken.

01:15:10

He will be put to death. That's biblical. Why? Because we actually hold a value.

01:15:15

We believers in Christ, those who hold a biblical worldview, those who call themselves Christians, believe that innocent human life has such great value that it needs protection, so much so that if someone commits the atrocity of murder on an innocent life, their life should be taken as a result.

01:15:35

Now, there's a difference between convicted of murder, on death row, and that life, and the life of a child, innocent, in the womb, who has harmed no one.

01:15:48

Furthermore, we never, for those who advocate the issue of rape and incest, those are issues where the woman has the right to abort their child.

01:15:58

There's no legal standing in our country where the child ends up paying the ultimate price with their life for the crime committed by the father.

01:16:09

And so those are simple truths that we know and understand, but unfortunately the congregation was woefully short on understanding that, and the pastor himself stood in the pulpit and absolutely contradicted everything that Scripture teaches about these issues.

01:16:27

Yeah, you even have a Warnock there in Georgia.

01:16:35

Yes, we do. Who has actually attempted a

01:16:42

Christian apologetic to convince women of their liberty to murder their unborn children,

01:16:51

Raphael Warnock. Yes, I wrote about him in my article as well, and addressed what he shared.

01:16:59

He found out during the time of the leak that took place, the Supreme Court leak that happened in May, Raphael Warnock took to Twitter to say this, as a pro -choice pastor, let me stop there, there's no such thing as a pro -choice pastor as it relates to the issue of abortion.

01:17:18

But he said this, as a pro -choice pastor, I always believe that a patient's room is way too small for a woman, her doctor, and the

01:17:27

United States government. I'll always fight to protect a woman's right to choose, and that will never change.

01:17:34

Here you have a pastor advocating unapologetically for the right for a woman to choose to murder her child in the womb.

01:17:44

That is reprehensible. These men should have a holy fear of the Lord to the degree that uttering such blasphemies would cause them to quake because they feared the

01:17:55

Lord strike them dead in the pulpit. But the reality is these places aren't churches, that where they were standing were not pulpits.

01:18:02

They were just stages for those men to pontificate their own ideas about these issues.

01:18:10

Yes, it's just repulsive to the point of being speechless.

01:18:17

Well, let's go to some of our listener questions. Let's see here, we have

01:18:23

Andrew, and he is a black listener in our audience in Brooklyn, New York, and he says, what will it take to make black pastors and black

01:18:36

Christians as a whole to see the need to address both the unborn issue and the

01:18:41

LGBT issue? What will it take for them to see that these are not just issues for white evangelicals to care about?

01:18:49

Do we need a black Kim Davis or a black Jack Phillips before they realize this?

01:18:57

And again, I said that's Andrew in Brooklyn, New York. What's your answer to that? Yeah, Andrew, thanks so much for the question.

01:19:05

I would say if Scripture was not sufficient, there's no leader that's going to persuade them otherwise.

01:19:15

The real issue here that I'm beginning to deal with regarding these men are that they are not regenerate.

01:19:24

This is not an idea of their woefully ignorant on the issue.

01:19:29

They're hearing the issues against the pro -choice position.

01:19:34

They're ignoring those positions, and they're advocating for that, which is antithetical to Scripture.

01:19:40

I can only assess, based upon that, that there's no Holy Spirit residing on the inside of them to confirm what the

01:19:48

Scripture has to say about these issues. And so therefore, like I said, these are not churches.

01:19:55

These are not pastors. Those are not pulpits. These are men who've gathered, based upon their own personal charisma, people around them, and these people have attached themselves to teachers who are willing to scratch their ears for the purpose of their own benefit.

01:20:15

Thanks again, Andrew. We have CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who wants to know,

01:20:23

I have heard Chris Arnzen promote a documentary on his program called

01:20:29

Maafa 21, and I was wondering if your guest today, Virgil Walker, has ever seen this.

01:20:36

Yeah, that's a, I don't know if you've seen it, Virgil, but it's a powerful documentary host primarily by black

01:20:43

Christians. The word Maafa, M -A -A -F -A, means genocide in Swahili, and it's really a very thorough documentary about the roots of abortion being found in eugenics, racism, as we were mentioning earlier, the vision of eradicating the black race and other non -white minorities and ethnic groups off of the planet, and really powerful stuff.

01:21:18

Have you seen that? Yeah, I have. Years ago, definitely saw that. The filmmaker of Mark Crutcher is a brother who's been involved in kind of work in that area for quite some time regarding getting the message out, getting the information out to have a great website.

01:21:38

But it's interesting that I remember seeing the video of the documentary years ago on YouTube.

01:21:47

Now, since that time, that documentary has been removed from YouTube because it violates their code of ethics.

01:21:57

And so organizations like those who are getting the word out, they're being pulled off of websites, being pulled off of social media platforms and the like, and so it's one of those things that it's important to know those groups and support them in the best way possible.

01:22:16

But yes, very familiar and had watched that documentary years ago. Yeah, and by the way, the website of the documentary itself, so you can bypass

01:22:24

YouTube since it's apparently no longer there, is maafa21 .com,

01:22:31

M as in Michael, A, A, F as in Frank, A, 21 .com. And some of the interesting revelations in that documentary that actually

01:22:41

I had heard for the first time there were the fact that many left -leaning individuals and organizations well -known to the black community and supported by a significantly large segment of the black community who acknowledged and seemed to be fully aware of the design of abortion to eradicate the black race off the planet and who subsequently, therefore, opposed abortion were renowned comedian

01:23:20

Dick Gregory, who just passed not long ago, and the Black Panthers. So this is not something that has been really, it may have been hidden and buried for the normal person or the average person, average citizen, but they were not that difficult to discover these facts.

01:23:45

So bring us to some of the more specific things that you bring up in your letter to black pastors in order to see these words of yours hopefully and prayerfully be used by God and the

01:24:02

Holy Spirit to transform the hearts, minds, thinking, and actions of the black pastor and the black church at large.

01:24:11

Yeah. I really kind of trace where these, where quote -unquote pro -choice pastors, like I said, there's no such animal, where they came from.

01:24:23

And I started tracing back to the conversation we had earlier about eugenicist Margaret Sanger, but I list out three primary reasons that really served as a catalyst for this ideological shift from being connected to a

01:24:42

Judeo -Christian view of life, a Judeo -Christian view of sin, understanding that murder is wrong, to where we are today.

01:24:52

And those three things are these. One, financial partnership with white liberals, a financial partnership with white liberals.

01:24:58

They were, those pastors, even in the 1930s, 1939, 1940, under Margaret Sanger's Negro Project, they were benefited by promoting, financially benefited by promoting her ideas in those local churches.

01:25:13

The second thing was political gain. It allowed most black pastors to be seen, politically speaking, within at least their communities and their hopes, for the most part, were within white circles as relevant, as important, as having some level of ability to provide some backup, some support for their ideas.

01:25:37

And then thirdly, the cultural popularity to win the approval of feminists. And that's what we're seeing more and more today.

01:25:46

The idea of feminism and that women need abortion so that they can climb the corporate ladder and not have any impediment to their success, that's a feminist idea.

01:25:57

And it's run roughshod throughout culture, and it's definitely seeped into the church.

01:26:05

And so pastors wanting to appeal to those feminists within their crowd are saying the kinds of things that are antithetical to biblical worldview.

01:26:15

I address, I kind of go through and show how, and you're probably very aware of this, how in 1977,

01:26:21

Jesse Jackson, Reverend Jesse Jackson was pro -life.

01:26:28

He advocated for issues regarding pro -life. He said this, quote, those advocates that are taking life prior to birth and are not calling it killing or murder, they do so because they understand that it would imply the baby in the womb is somehow human.

01:26:45

You look at his words there, he recognizes the whitewashing, if you will, of the language so that it doesn't sound like there's a taking of the human life.

01:26:55

That was in 1977. Of course, by the time he got ready to run for political office, again on the

01:27:01

Democratic ticket, he knew that there was something that he was going to have to give up in order to do that.

01:27:07

So in 1988, you would hear Jesse Jackson say this, quote, women must have the freedom of choice over what they do with their bodies, end quote.

01:27:15

So here he's moved from a biblical position in 1988 to an unbiblical position.

01:27:22

That was approximately when he was running for president, coincidentally, right?

01:27:29

Absolutely, absolutely. That was the whole point and purpose of doing what he did. So you're seeing that the movement, the shift, all of it is for the purpose of political expediency, all of it is for the purpose of financial gain, all of it for the purpose of attaining to some degree some measure of status within a feminist culture.

01:27:48

And so I laid that out kind of at the outset. I talked about the pastors who are both pro -choice and pro -life, and they're mainly nuancing language for the purpose of not being called out into one or the other.

01:28:01

So that way their goal is to offend both groups that may be within their congregations so that they're not kind of outed, if you will.

01:28:11

And they really spend most of their time trying to tamp down, water down, and help cause those who would be excited about the overturnable view, they want them to kind of quiet down and pipe down.

01:28:26

So that's kind of what you have. I talked about who those were and gave examples in the piece.

01:28:32

And then finally I went back to Martin Luther King, which was the motivation for writing the article, that he had a letter to a

01:28:39

Birmingham jail. And I wanted to do a letter to black pastors. But he indeed was the beneficiary of the

01:28:47

Margaret Sanger Planned Parenthood Award. And so I exposed at the very end of the letter the fact that Martin Luther King would not have been an advocate for pro -family, pro -life issues.

01:28:59

He in fact had teamed up with Margaret Sanger to promote her

01:29:05

Negro Project. In fact, winning the award on his award, it reads this way, quote, facing jail, abuse, and physical danger,

01:29:15

Dr. King's unceasing efforts on behalf of Americans to win freedom for the Negro people parallel closely, listen to this, they parallel closely to Mrs.

01:29:24

Sanger's fight over the last half century for the emancipation of women. Listen to this part.

01:29:30

Emancipation of women from the burdens of perpetual childbearing and the emancipation of children from a future of poverty and hopelessness, end quote.

01:29:42

That's on the Margaret Sanger Award that Dr. King received in 1966.

01:29:47

His wife would go and receive the award on his behalf. And if you ever get an opportunity to read her speech, you will see very clearly neither of them stood on the side of pro -life.

01:30:00

They stood on the side of Margaret Sanger, intended view regarding pro -choice.

01:30:06

Wow, and there has been for quite a number of years and even decades the use of Dr.

01:30:14

King to promote a pro -life, anti -abortion, abortion abolition ideology.

01:30:25

And so this is a sad revelation that he was no friend in reality of the unborn child.

01:30:34

No, he was not. Not in any way, shape, or form. Not receiving the Margaret Sanger Planned Parenthood Award.

01:30:40

No, no sir. Yeah, well, that definitely reveals either the ignorance of Dr.

01:30:49

King over the roots of that satanic movement of genocide, primarily intended for black children, or his indifference over whether or not that really mattered if it helped to maintain the popularity of his position in the civil rights movement.

01:31:17

Yeah, go ahead. No, no, I finished what I was saying. Yeah, a lot of what you see in the response by Dr.

01:31:28

King's wife, what you see in her speech was a very crystal clear understanding of the message that Sanger was promoting.

01:31:40

And the message was that for the benefit of financial well -being, it would be beneficial for blacks not to have children.

01:31:50

They need to have fewer children, and so they need to submit themselves to sterilization of all kinds.

01:31:57

And the promotion, even at that time, of abortion. Those issues were clear, even in 1966.

01:32:06

Those issues were absolutely clear. They understood. There was no ignorance about what she intended and had planned and had been doing for quite some time since the late 1930s.

01:32:19

And so by the time you get to 1966, Margaret Sanger's history, background, and what she intends to do is absolutely clear.

01:32:28

Fast forward to today, where 21 million black babies have been aborted, where black women represent 8 % of the population, 7 % to 8 % of the total population, but represent somewhere in the neighborhood of between 31 % and 38 % of all abortions.

01:32:50

I would say Sanger was very successful in making sure that the communities that she deemed were not to par, were not to her standard, were not supreme, had killed off a vast number of their progenitors.

01:33:08

And we are going to our final break. It's going to be a lot more brief than the other breaks. If you have a question, send it in immediately to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

01:33:17

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Virgil Walker, right after these messages from our sponsors.

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So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the

01:50:11

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon today by calling 631 -291 -7002, 631 -291 -7002, or by visiting ironsharpensironradio .com,

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ironsharpensironradio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, hoping to see you

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Thursday, September 22nd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. And our guest has been and will continue to be

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Virgil Walker. And we're discussing his letter to black pastors. And this is largely and specifically targeting the issue of the complacency and the advocacy of the murder of unborn children by black leaders and pastors and churches.

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If you'd like to send us an email with a question, do it quickly because we're rapidly running out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,

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ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. We have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who says, the rhetoric

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I hear from pro -abortionists, perhaps even especially very often, from those who are in the limelight of the media who happen to be black clergy or political leaders, is that the pro -life movement is very against or apathetic to the care of children after they're born.

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They don't seem to be capable of actually answering the direct questions about infanticide and shift the blame to the pro -life individuals.

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Can you respond to that? Yeah, they actually do.

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The whole idea, or the ideas behind how they navigate that, and a lot of it has been borne out in the responses to my letter.

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No one is, again, defending infanticide. The language is always obscured.

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They're usually obtuse in their approach. They're not directly coming out and really talking about the issue.

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What ends up taking place for the most part are ad hominem attacks, the idea that you're just against women, that you're not for taking care of the mother.

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And if you are indeed for life, then you're not for, kind of the way Jamal Bryant did, you're not advocating enough for life.

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If you are really for life, then here are a list of demands that you would be in favor of in an effort to promote life.

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Again, all of that ignores the personal responsibility of the individuals who are indeed having these children, making the decisions to have sex, outside of the bounds of marriage mostly, and who have decided they're going to do things their own way.

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Yet the responsibility is to be born by those of us who have not made those decisions.

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The one we're advocating for is the child in the womb who is

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A, innocent, B, most vulnerable, and C, can't speak for themselves.

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That's what we're advocating for. Once that process is complete, any

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Christian in their right mind is going to do all they can to provide support, help, and assistance, but ultimately the responsibility lies with the mother, the father of the child, and the parents who are most closely associated with them.

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Well, I have been saying for years, going all the way back to when we, in the 1990s, when

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I was working for WMCA Radio, not as a talk host, but as an account executive selling airtime,

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I had even called in to a number of live talk shows on my own station where I worked, including when

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Pat Buchanan was running for the Reform Party for President of the United States.

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And I said to Pat Buchanan, why is it that there isn't a louder outcry from pro -life people to have nationally televised films of an abortion before every election cycle so that people will vote with an educated mindset?

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They will know what's actually happening. And I was shocked that the poster boy for conservatism at the time,

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Pat Buchanan, said, oh, I wouldn't want to do that. And I said, why not? He said, well, that would be like televising an execution.

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I said, yeah, that's my point. And I think that every church that has a member or members that are abortion abolitionists who may be in churches that have a vocal pro -choice ideology, they should insist that that church, either as a whole or the elder board or whatever, watch a film of an abortion and then have a question and answer session.

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Why do you think that this is such a rarely heard challenge? In fact,

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I don't want to pat myself on the back, but I'm the only one that I hear saying this. Yeah, I get it.

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I think for the most part that folks don't want, these clinics are in the most obscure sections of town.

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They're hidden away. They're difficult to find. And Planned Parenthood, they make sure that the entrance is in the back so that both the entrance and the exit of the young lady who would attempt to murder her child is obscured from view.

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So that's what you're dealing with publicly speaking. And then from a biblical corporate standpoint, regarding those who are involved in church,

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I don't disagree with you. I think that the horror, the atrocity of actually witnessing something like that, an abortion, will burn in your memory forever, and you will no longer be able to act ignorant, acting as if this is some choice that a woman makes, that it's just not really a human being.

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It's just a clump of cells. All those arguments begin to fall away. What I've learned, though, over the course of time, is that many who claim to be a part of the patrol -of -the -life movement are for the complete abolition of abortion.

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To some degree they would rather mitigate it, minimize it, slow track it, and they've not been honest.

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An example quickly of that is what you're seeing now with these bills in the states.

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As each state begins to determine what their state is going to do, there are abolitionists, those who want to abolish abortion, who are saying give the baby in the womb, if we do believe that's a human being, give the baby in the womb the same protections against murder as you would an individual.

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So the individual, if someone murdered me, they would be adjudicated according to law. Why? Because I'm a human being, created in the image of God, and the same level of protection.

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If we truly believe that the baby in the womb is a human being, then we would advocate for this. What we're seeing, though, are folks who said that they were pro -life, who indeed believe that the woman is solely a victim, an innocent victim in the process, and that any kind of a law, any kind of question or challenge of her victimhood is met with just a big challenge, even by those who claim to be pro -life.

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Well, we're out of time, and I want to thank you so much for being such an extraordinary guest, as you always are,

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Virgil. Oh, thank you so much. Send my warm greetings in Christ to your dear brother and friend,

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Darrell Bernard Harrison, and let's try to have both of you on together again.

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I always love that as well. I want to remind our listeners that the website for G3 Ministries is g3min .org,

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G -3 -M -I -N .org. Don't forget about the website for High Point Baptist Church if you are interested in attending the conference featuring

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Darrell Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker at High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania.

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That's highpointbaptist .com, highpointbaptist .com. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write.

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I hope that you all have a safe and joyful and Christ -honoring weekend and Lord's Day, and I want you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater