F4F | Confessions of a Repentant False Prophet

Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the Faith. My name is Chris Rosebro, and I am your servant in Jesus Christ, and this is the program that compares what people are saying in the name of God to the

Word of God. Now if you've ever heard of the New Age Movement, you probably have. In fact, if you haven't,

I don't know where you've been, but if you ever heard of the New Age Movement, go ahead and hit the subscribe button down below. Don't forget to like the video and ring the bell so you can be notified when we update the channel.

Today I have a special guest that we're gonna be bringing on, who is a former New Ager, now

Christian, and we're gonna talk about—we're gonna name the segment, I think, The Confessions of a

Repentant False Prophet, and you may have heard of her. Her name is Doreen Virtue, and why don't

I just get to it and bring her on to the program. Doreen, thank you for coming on Fighting for the

Faith. It's an honor to be with you. Thank you so much for what you've done for my walk with Christ and for His Kingdom.

Yeah, well, I always like to point out when you say things like that, what did Paul say? He who plants and he who waters is nothing.

It's God who gives the increase. But thank you. I am very thankful to have been able to be of service to you as a servant of Christ.

So now, Doreen, you know a lot about stuff that I, like, know nothing about, and it's always fascinating to me when

I watch your YouTube channel and see the things that you're offering as far as insights to the body of Christ, because you have a unique perspective.

And you're somebody who...you were an A -list, high -profile, rock star

New Ager. And let's talk about your story a little bit there first, and then how you became a

Christian, and then let's talk about what it means when you say that you're a repentant false prophet, and then what similarities...it

would kind of give us an overarching of where we're gonna go today. What similarities do you see within the NAR and some of the

Charismatic Churches as it relates to your former practices as a New Ager? So we've got a lot of time, let's get to it.

So New Ager, how did that happen, and how long were you in it, and how'd you get to be so popular? Oh my goodness.

I was raised in Christian science, which as you know is neither Christian nor scientific, but I didn't know any different.

My mother told us we were Christian. We had a King James Bible all over the house. I had my own personal

King James Bible. We went to church twice a week, the Wednesday night testimonial meeting and Sunday school, and we used

Bible verses. I didn't even have a clue that I was in a heretical church.

It was just not even our consciousness. So I went straight from Christian science growing up.

I went to school and earned a bachelor's in master's in psychology, and got involved with the

New Age, partly because I was writing psychology books, and I was offered a speaking job with the

Whole Life Expo, which some of you might remember. It was kind of in the 90s, this traveling circus of holistic and New Age teachers that would go to convention centers all around North America.

Yes, I've been to one of their conventions as an apologist. Bob and Gretchen Pazzantino, they've now gone to be with Christ, but they were some of my mentors in apologetics.

They took us to one of these expos up in San Francisco one year. So I know what you're talking about. I was likely there giving a heretical workshop, not knowing that it was heretical.

I became popular because I was one of the few New Age teachers using Christian terminology, and actually

I kind of pulled back from that because I got a pushback every time I said the name of Jesus. And we'll talk about that, but I was later convicted of that, doing that, when

I got to Mark 838, and Jesus says, if you're ashamed of me,

I'll be ashamed of you. So anyway, it's interesting. I always thought of myself as a

Christian. I called myself a Christian wherever I went. I used to say, I'm sorry, my dog.

Okay, I have a lot of dogs, so this happens all the time. So you were talking about how you use

Christian terminology, and so you kind of pick up from there. Okay, so one of the reasons people told me that they followed me was because I was one of the few

New Age teachers who would actually talk about Jesus. I quoted Scripture. I was twisted

Scripture. I didn't know I was twisting it. I was raised with twisted Scripture, and of course I talked about angels a lot, not in a biblical way.

And the reason is that I was biblically illiterate. I wasn't a rebellious

Christian. I was a ignorant, weak Christian. Got it. Okay. So, okay.

Which, funny that you would say that, you know. One of my beliefs is that there are a lot of people who attend even churches that are not like Christian science, or you know, intentionally trying to rebel against God, but they attend churches where they get so little

Scripture that functionally they are just biblically illiterate. And as a result of it, what they think

Christianity is, and what it is, are two divergent things, and then when you show them, it's like, well wait a second, here's what the

Scriptures say. They go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, or they get mad at you.

That's exactly what happened to me. But I had that Bible on my shelf for 58, well probably 58 years.

It was 58 when I was saved, three years ago. And I just never opened it.

It was laziness. Ironically, I was convinced that the truth that I kept searching for was in some old antiquarian book, and so I would haunt bookstores, you know, looking for some book that could tell me the secret, and it was there on my shelf all along.

And just like you described, when I finally opened the Bible, there it was, everything I was looking for.

Right. Now, did you travel with Deepak Chopra? Yeah. Oh wow, okay.

Yeah, I was, as you mentioned, and I'm saying this not to boast about me, but to give glory to God, to show just this is such a miracle that he could take someone who was basically a minister of demonic doctrine, like my former self, and save me, just pull me out.

Yeah. When I didn't know I needed saving, see, I was raised in a religion that denied basic doctrine.

There's no such thing as sin, according to Christian science, except for negative thinking. There's no devil, there's no hell.

Jesus, I can barely say this, is just a man, according to Christian science. Yeah. And so every heresy, just check the box of heresies, it's all in Christian science.

And so I couldn't have been saved until I realized I needed to be saved, because I was a sinner.

My whole life I was told to affirm I was perfect, whole and complete, and made in the image and likeness of God.

Twisting Genesis to say that we are, you know, there's nothing wrong with mankind.

There's no fall, you know, Genesis three, just X that out in Christian science. And so, so yes,

I became very popular. I was working for a publisher called Hay House, and traveling with Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer, Louise Hay, Marianne Williamson, Neil Dunwall, she did

Conversations with God, very famous psychics. We traveled together for years all around the world.

We were treated like rock stars. One of the things that I find curious is that people get very upset about the prosperity.

So a lot of people get upset about the prosperity Gospels, preachers, opulence, and excess, which is absolutely appropriate.

But the same thing exists in the New Age. The New Age comes across as humble, as all about altruism.

But every New Age teacher is actually a multimillionaire as well. And while we didn't have private jets, we were treated to things like those private suites on Emirates jets.

And we were given first class vacations along with our workshop travels to Italy and in the

UK and Australia, South Africa, all around the world. And our every need was met.

We were treated like rock stars. And it nobody talks about that.

I mean, yeah. And but what happens is that when you're treated that way, and this is what I can see in the prosperity preachers and the false prophets of the

NAR is that you become narcissistic. You start to believe your own press.

And you start to believe that everything you say is correct. There's nothing that you could do that's wrong.

Everyone is giving you standing ovations, wherever you go, people are pawing at you for your autograph and your photograph and telling you how much you've you've helped them.

They're crying and saying, you're a gift from God. People were calling me an angel. And, and so I just I was so insulated by all that and affected by that it was

I became prideful. And so I never questioned the teaching that I was doing as a result.

It was very dangerous. And that's what I see going on with the false prophets and the prosperity preachers today is that they see critics as being misguided.

And that's how I saw critics at that time. Yeah. So I couldn't help but notice when you were talking about your time in Christian science, that the things that you were taught sound eerily familiar with the the word of faith, heresy, and the and kind of the operative ideas behind that, that they're all about affirmations, your words create reality.

And I remember the late Walter Martin, he used to tell a joke and it wasn't it wasn't a very kind one.

But Walter Martin was known for being a bull in a china shop. But he would tell a joke. He says, How can you tell when the

Christian scientist in hell? And his answer was because the Christian scientist in hell is off in the corner saying,

I'm not here. I'm not here. I'm not here. And so what

I find fascinating is what you were describing in your time in Christian science. Again, you think of Joel Osteen.

Your faith -filled words create reality. It's all about the affirmations. You decree and declare, and you create reality.

I see that there seems to be some kind of a theological connection, at least substantively, between what you experienced in Christian science and what is being passed off as Christian doctrine within the churches like Joel Osteen's and Kenneth Copeland's and others.

Well, I mean, there's two main reasons that I see that that's absolutely correct. One is that just like all

Scripture is God -breathed, 2 Timothy 316, all deception is devil -breathed.

It's the same author for all of us. And then the second reason is Phineas Quimby in the late 1800s, who was a teacher to Mary Baker Eddy of Christian Science, Holmes, Ernest Holm of Religious Science, the

Fillmore's of Unity Church, and E .W. Kenyon of the

Word of Faith movement. And then, of course, he passed that on to Kenneth Hagan.

Yep, that's right. Papa Hagan, Daddy Hagan is what they call him, yep. Mm -hmm.

Yeah, so Walter Martin, I have his book right here. This is such a good book that I recommend,

The Kingdom of the Cults. It's really accurate about Christian science, so I'm assuming he's accurate about the other cults, too.

Yeah, and yeah, I was able to have one conversation with Walter Martin before he died, and you know, and my wife and I, we had spent some time in a cult in the

Latter Rain movement, and God was very gracious in getting us out of that.

And we came out of it, we just didn't know which way was up, you know. And I told my wife, I said, I think the

Bible's true, I just don't think we know what it really says or means, you know. And of course, we were products of, like, attending a large megachurch that was

Nazarene, and the small group Bible Studies pretty much kind of went like, you know, let's read a verse and then let's go around and ask people in the room what that verse means to them, rather than what it means.

And so we were not prepared at all when, you know, when the cults snatched us and brought us in.

And so I began working through a series of events,

I began doing work with Jehovah's Witnesses, you know, to help bring them the gospel, and you know, really, that was my first contact with countercult apologetics, and just took to it like a fish to water.

And so I had an opportunity to talk to Walter Martin and say, you know, I told him my story, told him

I, you know, I really want to study this more. He said, yeah, well pack up everything and come to Southern California and study apologetics with Rod Rosenblatt at Christ College Irvine.

It's like, well, if Walter Martin says to do that, you do it, you know. So I did, and you know, the rest is kind of history.

But he died shortly after that, and so I never had an opportunity to meet him in the flesh, but have had many a time to talk with and meet with people who've worked with him and knew him, so.

But that's a different story altogether. Now, so you're being jetted all over the world, you're doing very well, you've got a publishing deal, people...pretty

much anything you say spiritually, people are hanging on every word and applying these to their life, and it's making a difference, people are criticizing you, you're just ignoring them.

So how do you go from that to being a baptized believer in Jesus Christ?

It was quite an unraveling. When I look back, it seems like Jesus was pursuing me out of the

New Age. I was trying to blend Christianity with New Age, and I see a lot of people doing that.

Even today, people who identify as Christians will say to me, well, I don't see that it was anything wrong with what you were teaching before.

I was having real experiences, and I want to talk about that today, about the false prophets, that sometimes they were accused of sleight of hand, and there is a little bit of that, which

I'll identify so you can find it in their shtick, but a lot of it is you'd have real experiences of receiving messages that sometimes were verifiable and astoundingly accurate, and had enough truth mixed in with lies that it couldn't be detected unless you really studied scripture.

So that was my life. I was set for life. If I had stayed in the New Age, I would have never had to work again.

I had a really nice home with my husband in Hawaii, but that was kind of interesting.

I was driving along in January of 2015, and the best broadcast in terms of signal in Hawaii is a radio station called

Christian Satellite Network. I loved listening to Christian radio, and I had been doing so since the 90s when

I used to listen to Chuck Smith when I lived in California. How is that possible?

Well, see, I heard the gospel, but unless you know you're a sinner, I wasn't ever convicted.

I thought I was perfect, whole, and complete, and sin didn't exist, so I was really filtering and cherry -picking what

I was reading and hearing, and it didn't apply to me when they'd say, when I would hear you're a sinner,

I would say, no, I'm not. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what sin is.

I saw God and Jesus as being completely inclusive, as the worldly viewpoint is today, that everything you do is fine as long as you're positive, as long as you're happy, and you're not actively hurting people, and you're being, quote, a good person.

God's happy with you. He loves you. He's on your side. He's your champion, and so when pastors would say you're a sinner,

I'd be saying, well, that part doesn't make sense, but the rest I like, and when they said Jesus died for your sins, it didn't compute.

What do you mean Jesus died for my sins? I don't understand. What is... and then plus I was influenced by the

Zeitgeist movement that said that a lot of the Bible was appropriated from Sumerian theology.

Yeah, really bad history, by the way. I debunked the Zeitgeist movie years ago, so...

Yes, I've seen that, and I'm so glad you have, because a lot of people are still under the influence. I was also reading what's called the

New Age Bible, which is called A Course in Miracles, written by... Oh, that's right. Yeah, I've heard of that. Yeah, I studied that for about 20 years, and went through the workbook for students.

I read the copy of the original called the Urtext, and it's Christian science with a

Christian veneer, and so I was just having this amalgamation of all these different beliefs that I was living in, and I loved them all.

I thought Jesus was an ascended master. I've repented for that now. That's what people in the

New Age think, that he's equal to Krishna and Buddha and Kuan Yin, and you think he's a great teacher.

So that's where I was coming from. So in January 2015, I was driving along in Maui, Hawaii, and all of a sudden this sermon comes on by Alistair Begg from Truth for Life, and it's called

Itching Ears, and I've listened to it since, and now I hear it a whole different way, but for some reason, that sermon started to crack the defenses of the narcissism around me.

I listened to that. He did an expository sermon on 2 Timothy 4, verses 3 through 4, that in the end times, people will not want sound doctrine.

They will want what tickles their ears or their itching ears, and as I listened to it, I was convicted probably for the first time that I had been doing that, that I had been giving people false hope, and it really started to plant a seed in me.

In fact, I hope I can talk to Alistair Begg someday and thank him because his sermon got through to me, and I went home and I started to complain to my husband about the

New Age work. I still believed in it, but it started to get to me that it was about false hope and itching ears.

I continued with it. My husband was very supportive. He said, well, just quit. Stop it, and I said, well, how?

We had all these employees. We had this ranch that we were supporting all these people and these animals.

It just didn't seem feasible. I was kind of on this hamster wheel that I didn't know how to get off of, but Jesus kept working me, and I was pretty famous for decks of angel cards, which are similar to tarot cards, except they have angels on them and real positive, sugary messages like have faith and everything's going to be okay, etc.

You sent them down to Australia to Christ alignment. Yes. I think they copied me.

I honestly do because I used to teach it in Australia, and my cards were on the bestseller list of the

Sydney newspaper down there in the early 2000s.

So anyway, people called me the queen of the angels.

I was called the angel lady because of these cards, and I had never really studied angels in the

Bible. I just knew enough to be dangerous, so I could talk about Gabriel. I could talk about Michael.

I could talk a little bit about the Christmas story with the annunciation, but I've apologized to anyone who was hurt by my teachings because I should have gone through Genesis 1 to Revelation 22 and looked at how angels are handled from a biblical theology standpoint, and I didn't.

I was deceived, and I passed along the deception tragically.

So people had been asking me to make a deck of Jesus cards because I talked about him a lot, and that just seemed impossible because I had enough respect for Jesus.

I thought I can't reduce him to cards. I didn't think of him as my

Lord and Savior back then, but I did have high, high respect for him. But anyway,

I found this artist named Greg Olson. He's a Mormon artist, and he painted

Jesus kind of like how I imagined Jesus to be, like a big happy teddy bear, almost like a

Buddha with a big smile on his face, and so we contracted to work together on a deck of Jesus cards right after I had heard this

Alistair Begg seminar. And so in order to make these cards and be respectful,

I said, I'm going to pull verses out of the Bible that Jesus actually said, and I got,

I opened my, this time I got a new King James Version Bible with red letters, and I went through, and I finally read all the

Gospels. I finally went through, and as I said, when I got to Mark 8 38, where Jesus said, for whoever is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation of him, will the

Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels?

And that verse just kicked me in the gut, which I needed to be. It just,

I said, you know what, this is me. I had thought of Jesus as being completely inclusive and approving of everything, and when

I saw that he actually would be ashamed of me, that just didn't add up with the worldview I was raised with, and that the new age teaches.

And so that's when I started, my worldview started to fall apart necessarily, which I was so happy.

And I started to read the rest of the Gospels, and I, my eyes started to be open.

I still didn't know the Gospel in terms of that I was a sinner, and that just didn't make sense for a while, but I started to talk about Jesus more at my workshops, because I didn't want to be ashamed of him and have him be ashamed of me.

So I was really doing it from a selfish standpoint, and people started to notice and started to ask me questions.

My attendees in my workshops tended to be backslidden and lukewarm Christians. That was the majority.

A lot of people who identified as recovering Catholics were there. I even had a Catholic priest who was a regular at my events, and a

Jewish rabbi who came, and then I'd also have a handful of people identifying as Wiccans who were attending, and even a couple of atheists, a lot of agnostics.

They were looking for church light through my events, because we would pray, and we would talk about angels and Jesus, but it was beyond the most liberal of the churches.

And so as I was reading these Gospels for these Jesus cards, it really was working on me, and I told my husband, okay,

I think we need to go back to church. I think we need to go to a regular Christian church. He was raised

Methodist, baptized at age 12 in a Methodist church, and so we didn't go to a

Methodist church, but we ended up at an Episcopalian church that we were at for almost two years, and that was really liberal.

They didn't see the Bible as inerrant. They had a female priest, etc., but it was a soft landing place for me coming out of the

New Age. I don't think I could have gone straight into a Reformed church like we are now from the

New Age. It would have been too much of a jolt. So you had a halfway house. It was a halfway house, exactly.

It helped me to go into Bible study and not be intimidated. It helped me to learn basic things, but then after we moved from Hawaii, after I was fired from my job because I posted

Deuteronomy 18 on my website, and my publisher said that would offend witches, and they didn't want to offend anyone, and we moved to the

Pacific Northwest where we live now, we basically lost all our money at that point.

I want to highlight this fact. Becoming a Christian cost you a lot.

Everything, yeah. Well, everything material. We were set for life in Hawaii.

I had set up a state plan that the animals would be taking care of the rest of their lives after I died, after Michael died.

We had no reason to believe we would ever leave Hawaii. It was like this Eden we were in up in Waimea, the hills of Kona, Hawaii.

It was beautiful, and we had friends, and we had this great church, but it was supported by my money from Hay House, and I was making a lot of money, but I was spending a lot of money.

That's one of the things you see, and I see this with the false prophets today, and the prosperity preachers, and Costi Han talked about this a bit with his uncle

Benny, is that as much money as you make because the devil's a sugar daddy, he also compels you to spend a lot, and so you get these nudges that you have to dress like a rock star, and you start treating your friends to first -class vacations because you're buying love, and you always have this hunger because you're not saved.

So I was spending money as fast or faster than I was making it, and not keeping up with the taxes, and so it was a rock star lifestyle in terms of the rock stars who get paid a lot of money but don't keep it up and squalor in their older years.

I was in that kind of position. So November of 2017,

Hay House fired me by email after 25 years with them and said that my post about Deuteronomy 18 would offend the witches that they were catering to.

Interestingly, when I first started out with Hay House, they were a health company. They wouldn't even use the word psychic back then, and this is the progressive nature of deception, is that you start off with something sweet and innocent, like wanting to be healed, and then it's like your hunger grows, and you keep wanting more and more experiences.

You even hear the prophets say, give me more, Lord, give me more in these

NAR churches, and that's what I was used by the devil as a gateway to get people into the

New Age and witchcraft, because my angel card seemed so sweet and innocent, and then people would want more, and they would be in this pipeline, and they would end up practicing witchcraft after a while.

I've met so many people who told me that story, and they were backslidden Christians, and a lot of them hearing my testimony said, oh yes,

Jesus is pursuing me too. I'm going to go back to church. A lot of us have repented at the same time.

There's like a mass exodus out of the New Age right now. Good, good. Oh my goodness.

I mean, so you're on the other side of all of this, and it just comes back.

You think about the radical conversions of like the Apostle Paul, a man who was murdering

Christians and has a run -in with Jesus, and that'll mess up your theology pretty quick. I can relate to Paul, because I was an enemy of God.

I didn't know it. Yeah, and so God has had mercy on you, and what you've done in ignorance,

He's bled and died for and forgiven you of. Yes, it's His grace and mercy, and I know that part of His judgment on me was letting me go into deception, and my deception was also a judgment on other people who were rebelling against Him.

So I can see His sovereign nature in His hand through all of this. Okay, so to kind of sum up your conversion is that you hear

Alistair beg, and the Holy Spirit's working through the word preached from 2

Timothy 4, and then you're reading the Gospels, and the Gospels are already...when

you're reading the Gospels, even though you're working on these Jesus cards, it's already messing with your theology, and people are detecting the shift.

And I'm a Lutheran pastor, and so we talk about how God always works through means, and I find your story fascinating in that I can keep coming back to, oh yeah, you can see the word of God working here, and the word of God messing you up there, and then ultimately you begin to embrace the truth of Scripture.

You have faith, and posting a text like Deuteronomy 18 is...it costs you your job, and it's like you didn't back down, and so that was the cost.

Yeah, no, I've always been a truth seeker when I was in the New Age, and I had everything material

I was still seeking, I was still searching, and I finally found that truth in the Bible. You know,

I had some experiences along the way that really woke me up to help me to see that I was and am a wretched sinner, a horrible wretched sinner, and after I came out of the

New Age, people who were still in the New Age, especially those in the Tarot and Witch community that had been following me, started to persecute me terribly on social media, and it was very hurtful.

Some of the things they said, the slander, what really helped me was to know that Jesus promised this, you know, if the world hates you, it's because it hated me first, and look at what they did to Him, and the martyrs, it's nothing compared to what

I've gone through, but then I started to really see that the horrible things people said about me, it was not even close to what

I really am, how horrible I was to teach people things that were unbiblical. That was just awful of me, and the fact that I didn't take the time to read the

Bible that was right there, that we, because of, you know, Wycliffe and Martin Luther and people like that, we have the

Bible available to us. It's illegal in some places in this world still to this day.

We have the Bible, and I was too lazy and too concerned to not read the

Bible myself. It's horrible that I did that, but God forgave me, and that's the miracle, and so I'm now through my repentance.

I'm doing my best to spread the word that the New Age is a doctrine of demons, to not listen to it.

It sounds so good to say affirmations, I love myself, you know, I'm perfect, whole, and complete.

It sounds so enticing to say that you're going to be healed by your positive thoughts, or you can manifest, it's a tag word from New Age, you can manifest whatever you want or need, but it's all illusion.

Those things that come to you from the devil, they leave right away. They're just gone.

So people need to be really careful. Now let's talk about this, because what you're describing in the

New Age, so your Christian science experience sounds a lot like churches like Joel Osteen, but your

New Age experience and the things that you're talking about sounds a lot like what we're getting from Bethel and from the

NAR, and it's very frightening. I don't know if you've been keeping track of the very tragic story coming out of Bethel about that two -year -old little girl who's been declared to be deceased, but brain dead, and the people at Bethel are still decreeing and declaring that she's going to rise from the dead.

And I just was tragically watching some of the social media posts of people from Bethel, you know, in a worship service, you know, saying that this girl's going to wake up and declaring that that was going to be the case.

And the one thing I noticed is that they're not actually praying, you know, and this is a point that I've been making for years.

Prayer sounds like, Lord Jesus, have mercy on my daughter. Please, in your mercy, in your grace, spare her.

Please, you know, bring her back to health, and you know, if it's your will, and you pray like this.

But in the NAR, prayers sound like this, and it's weird.

I've noted this a few times. Devil, I command you to leave, and I'm decreeing and declaring, and I'm the head and not the tail, and I declare health, and they think that's praying.

And what you were describing sounds a lot like what you were engaging in in the

New Age. Can you talk about that a little bit? Absolutely. I was shocked to come out of the

New Age and find that the exact same thing is going on in churches like Bethel. And Hillsong, my husband and I visited

Hillsong when we went to Australia the last time. And, you know, I spent 22 years on the stages of New Age events, and when

I watch the stages of Bethel, it's identical. So, you mentioned all of the little two -year -old girl who tragically,

I mean, I'm sure you're just like me, grieved for the parents, and probably, I mean, you can't even imagine, but I probably would also say to Jesus, you know, probably pray, gosh, you raised

Jairus's daughter, can you please raise mine? So who can blame them for praying? But you're right, it's a command.

Interesting timing. I don't know if you've seen Jeff Durbin's video about the spinal bifida condition of the baby he and his wife are adopting.

I heard that this was a child in uterus diagnosed with spinal bifida and then born without it.

Yes, yes. And there's medical proof of this. This is a genuine bona fide miracle of God.

That little Augustine was born without the spinal bifida that he was diagnosed with with x -rays in utero.

So, to me, these two events happening at the same time is just an absolute sign of God's sovereign nature.

He decides the miracles, not us. We can't command God into miracles. We can't manipulate

Him. We can't earn it. And that's what I see Bethel doing. They're decreeing and saying that it's me -centered, that I am the one who...

What are your bingo words that you use? Yeah, we do prophecy bingo.

It's all these buzzwords, and it's awful.

But I'm hearing it from Bethel regarding this little girl, Olive, and it's like, oh, come on, please.

And this is a part of me that just breaks with grief. And that is that I've been a pastor long enough that I have been there when people's loved ones have passed.

I have received the phone calls at the odd times of the day or in the middle of the night when somebody has had a major tragedy strike them.

And I've dropped everything I've been doing in those situations to go and be with and mourn with and pray with parishioners who are going through these horrible, horrible experiences, and experiencing these great losses.

And I can tell you, what people need in a situation like that is to be walked lovingly through these experiences with Christian brothers and sisters who are there to give them a shoulder to cry on, to even be there and just say nothing as they grieve what they're going through.

But the last thing you need to do in a situation like that is say, listen, if we can just get

God's attention and command and control and decree and declare and stuff like that, we can turn this around.

If Olive has truly been declared dead, then the parents need to be pastored through the grieving process.

And all of the stuff that they're doing, they're making it appear as if this is this great opportunity, now

Jesus can show that He works signs and wonders at Bethel, but the reality is that Bethel is a false church.

They preach a false gospel, they have false prophets and a false apostle as their leadership, and if there were to be a miracle and Olive were to somehow be given life again, this would be the working of the devil, not of Christ.

And so my heart breaks for this couple that losing a child is devastating.

But at the end of this, they're being manipulated and not properly cared for in the midst of this tragedy, and it's just terrible to watch, absolutely terrible.

And my concern is the fallout from this, that if people who were taught at Bethel that you can name it and claim it and instantly receive a guaranteed healing, and now they don't, if those people at Bethel who've been told that they have this team that raises people from the dead, even though there's no paperwork to show that, that they may fall away completely from any kind of Christian study.

That's the fallout I'm super concerned about, is that I hope and pray that this would push people to a solid church, but it may not.

It may actually lead people to agnosticism. Yeah, and that's a common thing.

I can't help but see the connections. Do you remember Nabil, the

Christian apologist who used to travel with Ravi Zacharias?

I mean, he comes down with stomach cancer, and he makes a pilgrimage out to Bethel, and that didn't work out for his best.

He died, and when you hear the story after his death, that his wife delayed burying him for the hope of him being resurrected, that's just terrible.

It's absolutely terrible. And the reality is this, is that we have a sure and certain promise from Christ that we who are in Christ, who have been brought to penitent faith in Him, united with Him in His death and His resurrection, that we will someday rise from the dead.

Each and every one of us will die if Christ delays His return much longer.

It's just a matter of time before I die, before you die, and all of us die. And in this world, you'll note that death is no respecter of persons, and the young and the old, the wealthy and the poor, we all die.

But we have a sure and certain hope, because Christ has risen from the dead, that we who are in Christ also will rise.

And so all of this nonsense that's going on right now is really, in a way, abusing people and taking them to a point where you're testing their faith in such a way that they could completely fall away.

But then it kind of begs the question, I mean, if somebody falls away from being a Christian while being exposed to Christianity at Bethel, have they really been taught

Christianity at all? Are they really rejecting Christianity? I don't think that would be the case, but they would think that they are, but they're not.

So Doreen, the name of the segment is Confessions of a Repentant False Prophet, and your story is just amazing in the sense that you recognize that Christ has bled and died for sinners, and He's the one who saves us,

He's the one who gives us faith, He's the one who, I like to say, He repents us. And so through His word,

He's repented you, and given you faith, and now you trust in Him, and you're telling everybody about Christ.

That being the case, as a repentant false prophet, aside from looking for prophecy bingo buzzwords, which we do that here, what are some things that people should be looking for that would clue them in that somebody is engaging in false prophecy or a form of manipulation to make it appear that they're prophesying?

Well, as I mentioned earlier, some of the experience that prophets are going through is genuine.

It's not all sleight of hand. So I used to teach psychic development classes to help people to get angel messages, and now

I know it's demon messages. But thousands of people of all ages, different backgrounds, went through my classes, and they were successfully able to receive accurate messages.

I'd have them sit with a stranger and ask questions about, you know, their health, their life purpose, it's a new age buzzword, and such.

And they would get answers that they couldn't have known, because they're sitting with a stranger. So the point is that anyone can receive messages from demons, and that's what

I see the prophets doing. That's what I was doing on stage. I'd be in front of hundreds and thousands of people, at least twice a month, in these different countries, standing on stage, giving angel readings to people in the audience.

And it's identical to what these prophets that I see are doing at NAR churches and some of the hyper charismatic churches.

And so what happens is that you know what a confidence man is? A confidence man does enough, he kind of is a smooth -talking salesperson who gets you to have confidence in him, and then he takes advantage of you.

And that's what the devil does. So these demons talk through psychics, and mediums, and channelers, and prophets, and the demons will give real...

Oh, I'm sorry, that was my mother -in -law. Oh, she put the dog back in.

Hold on a second. Why don't you back up just a little bit, and you are on stage, and you're getting these prophecies, and go from there.

Okay, so about twice a month, sometimes more, I'd be on stage giving keynote workshops, seminars, giving prophecy, we call them angel readings, to hundreds of people, thousands of people would be in the audience.

And I'd pick out audience members, and sometimes bring them on stage, or have them stand up in the audience with the microphone, and I would give them messages that were accurate.

And that's how people get hooked in to these experiences. They actually get addicted, because the messages are always me -centered.

It's always, you're wonderful, you're so talented, God has given you a gift, and he wants to use it.

One of the key phrases you'll hear false prophets say is that, it's up to you to save the world.

That's a big, big message that comes through false prophets. You've got to go save the world.

Well, it's Jesus. Jesus is the savior, not us. God does not need us, we need God. You'll also see with false prophets, if you attend more than one of their workshops, you'll see that each of them has a gimmick that they'll use over and over again, or if you watch their videos.

And it's because you don't always get inspired when you're standing on stage, or you might be tired, or not feel well.

And so you'll have this gimmick that always works in every audience that you'll lean on. For me, the gimmick would be to say,

I'm getting a message that someone in this audience has back pain. And of course, everyone has back pain, most people.

And so all these hands would go up, and I would choose someone close to the front, because they would show up on camera, and it's easy to get to with a microphone.

And I'd say, and I'm getting a message, there's someone in the audience who knows they're a spiritual healer.

And so I'd have someone stand up and put their hand on the back of that person who had pain.

And then we'd interview them both about their experience. And it would be some sort of subjective proof that spiritual healing really works.

And so anyone who had attended more than one of my workshops would have seen that I repeated that in every city.

I wasn't really getting the message that someone had back pain. It was just a schtick that I would lean on.

And I would always justify it that it was to prove that God heals through spiritual healers. Every one of the false prophets has these schticks.

So you actually, in your own mind, justified that you were lying?

Wow. Okay. Because that's one of the things, as I watch people from Bethel do almost this identical thing, or I'll see

Benny Hinn do it, or name the faith healer. I sit there and scratch my head and go,

I know this person knows they're lying. But internally, what does that dialogue sound like?

Well, it sounds like the ends justify the means. And if you haven't read the

Bible, then you don't know that basically the 10 commandments say that if you slander your neighbor, if you're dishonest, that you have sinned against God and that you're worthy of going to hell at that point for eternity.

Unless you've really studied the Bible and have that righteous fear of God, it doesn't even matter to you.

You get insulated after a while. And part of God's judgment on false prophets is that He takes away that conviction.

So you don't get that conviction from the Holy Spirit anymore. You don't notice it or you write it off.

So your conscience is seared to a degree. Exactly. And since most of what

I was saying was a genuine experience, I was always a numbers person.

Well, 85 % of this is in the moment genuine. So what does it matter that this 15 % is kind of a shtick that I am using in every city.

And then the feedback you get from people, as I said, you're getting standing ovations. You're wealthy beyond your wildest imagination.

People stand in line to get your autograph and a photo next to you. And you're treated like a rock star.

So you just start to believe your own prowess. And that's what happened to me. Mm. Okay.

So I'm not going to challenge you about whether or not what these false prophets...if

there's a part of this that's actually legit. The demonic realm exists, and I know that people coming out of...not

just you, but other people coming out of similar movements say, listen, there are experiences that I've had that you cannot explain, except for that I was in contact with something truly powerful that wasn't

God. And yet at the same time, I do know that there are a group of people who claim to be prophets who seem to tap in, not to the demonic, but seem to tap into the power of the internet.

And a kind of prophetic reading that really seems to be more about fishing for information and learning how to read people.

I think of Sean Bowles, who does prophetic readings while looking at a smartphone device that's connected to the internet, and the information he's saying is easily obtainable from Facebook.

People like that. But in your case, you were really tapping into something.

Yeah, I was getting details. I remember once I was doing a workshop in Athens, Greece, with an interpreter.

These were not English -speaking people in the audience, largely. And I was getting Grecian names that were coming to me, related to the people in the audience, the names

I'd never heard of. And so I was able to pronounce Greek at that time. And I'd get the breed of the dog that you had that passed last year.

And not only that you're a painter, but exactly what you paint and what medium you paint with, and just these incredible details that I'd be watching it saying.

I mean, I kind of was a skeptic at some point when I was starting out. But as I was going along, it was convincing me.

And that's how the demons work, isn't it? They mix in truth and lies. Jesus said that the devil is the father of lies.

And he knows that if he comes to you with pure lies, no one will listen to him. But just like in Genesis 3, he mixes it with just giving you a little bit of doubt.

He tempts you with secret hidden wisdom, like he did with Eve. And you're hooked.

You're addicted. Many people have argued with me after I had denounced my work saying, but you comforted me.

How could it not be from God? Your work comforted me. Or how could it not be from God? You were so accurate with that reading you gave me.

And that's what I've had to really investigate is how was I giving comforting, accurate messages?

Well, demons can see into the future, and they can deliver that and whisper in the ear of any kind of false prophet enough to convince people that what they're doing is legit.

But all we have to do is read anything that the old prophets said in the Old Testament, or even the

New Testament prophets, and see that it wasn't foretelling they were doing. It was foretelling. It was calling people back to God's covenant.

They were prosecuting attorneys for God. They weren't fortune tellers. Yeah, you're right.

You know, Doreen, you reminded me that as Christians, we do get tempted by these things as well.

Now, number one, I want to actually have you interact with the idea that somebody's going to sit there and say,

Doreen, listen, what you were doing was the counterfeit. What Bethel is doing is the genuine thing.

The fact that your counterfeit existed proves that what Bethel is doing is right.

That's their logic, and that's their argument. What would you say to that person? I've seen that in their books, that they say that the

New Age stole these methods from Christianity, and they're taking them back and taking names.

And so all we have to do is go to Scripture and look at how

God's character goes through the Bible. God is someone who is concerned with us.

He does want to meet our needs. But when I hear a Bethel prophet talk about things that are very much related to prosperity gospel, it's stroking people's egos, you don't see that in the

Bible. And God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He doesn't contradict himself.

The false prophets say that they're getting special revelation. And so that would mean that the canon isn't complete, that we should be adding new books to the

Bible. And you just can't do that. God said everything he needed to say. He's given us the glimpse into the day of the

Lord in Revelation, and in a lot of the prophets. We don't need to have any more special revelation from Him.

Anything we need to learn, the Holy Spirit will illuminate that in Scripture as we read it.

Yeah. And now coming back to the temptation part, you know, I'll tell you a story, and Josh, I think you remember this one.

So when Pope Benedict resigned, Pope Benedict resigned, and of course the

Roman Catholic Church had to pick a new pope. So the day that they were going to announce the new pope, of course nobody knows when they're going to actually make the decision, because they go into the

Sistine Chapel and wait for the smoke to turn the right color. That night, the night before they announced the new pope,

I had the most bizarre dream in my life. It was a dream where it was so real that I thought for sure that I was in Rome.

And I remember in the dream, it was so vivid, that my wife and I, we used the

Find Friends app on our phone, so my wife can know where I am any time, it doesn't matter where I am.

I was so freaked out by this, I thought, oh my goodness, if my wife wakes up and looks at her phone, she's gonna freak out because I'm in Rome.

And that's how vivid it was. And so I found my way to the Sistine Chapel, and somehow

I was able to go in one side door of the Sistine Chapel, and out comes this cardinal.

He comes down the stairs, and he looks like he's in a hurry, and I said, what are you in a hurry?

He's all, they've just picked the new pope. And I said, really, what's the name that he's gonna pick, that he's gonna choose for himself?

He's gonna be named Pope Francis. And so, and no sooner did I get that information, it's like I woke up from the dream and went, that was the craziest thing

I have ever heard. So in the morning when we woke up, I told my wife what had happened.

And in fact, my son was back from the Navy at that time too, and I told him, I said, you gotta tell you, this weirdest dream.

He's all, what do you make of it? I go, I don't know. I don't know what to think of it. So three in the afternoon, they announced that they had made the decision on who the new pope was gonna be, they were gonna announce who it was, and all this kind of stuff.

And so I was curious, so I turned on Fox News and was watching it, and sure enough, they announced, and the new pope is this guy from Brazil or whatever, from South America, and he's taking the name of Francis.

And I dropped my drink on the ground, and my son was like, what on earth?

And so that was a legitimate prophecy? I don't even know how to describe what it was.

And then I got to thinking about this, because the temptation is for me to sit there and go, well, that could have been from God.

But the thing is, I had no idea where that came from. I had no idea where that came from, and it's like, and the more

I thought about it, I thought, you know what, if Patricia King had this happen, she would be all over social media, you know, saying,

I predicted the who, all this kind of stuff was. And I realized that anybody is susceptible to these kinds of messages, and I rejected it out of hand and basically said, that didn't come from God.

Yeah, it could have been a test, you know, it could have been. One of the other characteristics of a false prophet, as you mentioned,

Patricia King, is that false prophets will take credit and give glory to themselves. I used to do the same thing that I've seen you make fun of some of the prophets for good reason, about weather control.

And I would pray, we'd have hurricanes come up against Hawaii twice a year, and then

I'd have family in Florida with hurricanes, or people in the Philippines would say, please pray for the hurricanes. And so we would pray that there'd be this wall of white light and angels protecting the place, and then the hurricane wouldn't come through.

And so we'd all take credit instead of giving God the glory. And so if you see a false prophet taking glory for anything, run the other way.

That's absolutely a sign that they're a false prophet. Because anyone, if it's possible that there's a prophet today, and I mean,

God's capable of anything. Of course, he does miracles. But if there were a true prophet today, they would give all glory to God.

They would be so humble, you know, and pure of heart, you would recognize them. They'd be, you know, naked in the streets like the

Old Testament prophets. They wouldn't be like I was wearing Cavalli on a stage with my hair perfectly coiffed back then.

You know, they were just... That's painful. Right. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

No, I think that's an important point. And it's one of the things

I've noticed, you know, in studying different false prophets, and you just go back into the history of this movement.

And one of the things that strikes me is that, you know, it's one thing to say, I believe that Jesus Christ was born of the

Virgin Mary, that He suffered under Pontius Pilate, that He was crucified, that He died and He was buried and then

He rose again on the third day. And it's one thing to say that, or to say that I believe that He sent out

His apostles who then preached the gospel, and they performed miracles in His name, and wrote the

New Testament. Or I believe in the prophets of the Old Testament, and that they heard from God, and that they recorded these things, and that this is the

Word of God. That's like a package deal. But then to sit there and say, but then

I also have to believe now that God is talking to Benny Hinn, or to Kenneth Copeland, or to William Branham.

In fact, I years ago reviewed a sermon by William Branham. And Branham, while on stage during this healing event, whatever, basically said, you know, condemned anybody who would deny that God was speaking through him, and said that God would condemn them if you denied that God was speaking through me.

Yeah, that's definitely something to watch out for. Anyone who is twisting, was it 1

Samuel, touch not the anointed? It's David not wanting to kill Saul, who's been hunting him, because the

Lord anointed Saul through the prophet Samuel, a genuine prophet of God.

And so if you hear these prophets, or psychics, or angel channelers, or mediums, whatever they're called, it's different names, but the same persona underneath.

If you hear them deflecting critics, that's a sign of a false prophet, where anyone who's a true student, someone who really is a messenger, or who has the gift of teaching, will welcome any sort of Matthew 18 experience, will welcome having their teachings compared against Scripture, because we want to be sanctified.

We hate sin once we're saved. Yeah, and one of the things that I have an opportunity to do is to pastor people who've come out of really bad experiences in churches where they've been abused, and for them it's a breath of fresh air, because it's like I sit there and say, all right, ask me any question that you want.

And then after the sermon, the first thing we do in our Sunday school is, all right, let's open it up for questions. If you have a question about the sermon, something

I said in the exegesis you're not sure about, you are free to ask. And over and again people say that that helps them so much, because over and again, you're right, false teachers and false prophets, they cannot handle scrutiny, and they fear it because they, well, it's kind of like the

Wizard of Oz, they're afraid you're going to figure out that there's a curtain. If you pull the curtain back, you can see what's really going on.

That's what I see with Chris Fallaton and Bill Johnson, is the money coming in.

I mean, the money coming in that they are earmarking to basically dominate the world with more of their

Bethel supernatural ministry schools and church plants.

The money that comes in from false teachings is enormous. And you look at Joel Osteen and the mortgage he's got to be carrying with the

Rocket Stadium, and the pressure that, and I'm not sympathizing with them, but I've been there.

When you're at that level, you've got this pressure to make money and to keep making money. It keeps you going.

And you don't even for a second think that you're ever going to stop, because you've got to keep paying salaries and mortgage and rent and the convention hall that you're speaking at.

The devil really is an evil genius. He traps you so that you can't get out.

Yeah, it's funny, because the techniques you're describing, those are the exact practices of what's come to be known as the purpose -driven or the attractional church.

Years ago, I was exposed to the teaching that they give to people who want to be vision -casting leaders.

And there's a technique. In fact, Stephen Furtick was taught it, and Stephen Furtick teaches it when he does his private coaching.

And the name of the doctrine, it's called Dressing for the Wedding. And it's a strange name for the doctrine, but the analogy is that when you put your tuxedo on and you still have to drive to the wedding, you look out of place.

And so when you stop to get gas, people are looking like, who is that guy dressed in a tuxedo pumping gas in his car?

And the point is that you're not dressed for the gas station, you're dressed for the wedding, so you're dressed for the future.

And so dressing for the wedding in seeker -driven parlance means that if your church has a thousand people, you have to staff it as if you have 1 ,500, which means you're not staying within your budget.

Your budget is always out into the future, and you're always spending more than what you're taking in.

And the only way you can then survive in a situation like this is by continuing to keep and generate and get more people coming and more people coming, because dressing for the wedding doesn't stop.

You always have to be out into the future, and eventually stuff will catch up to it.

This is a core doctrine of what was going on at Harvest Bible Chapel, and why

James MacDonald did what he did, and why he failed spectacularly, because they're always getting themselves into huge amounts of debt because they're dressing for the wedding.

And all they're really doing is guaranteeing that they're going to have a spectacular failure at some point, because they're not going to be able to sustain it.

That's right. Wow. So, Doreen, tell me, how did you end up deciding to get on YouTube and become a

YouTuber about the things that you've experienced? And tell us a little bit about your channel and the things that you're covering there.

Oh, thank you. Well, when I was in the new age, starting in 2009, I started a YouTube channel and started to give card readings.

It was actually daily in the beginning, and then it went to weekly. And what's so interesting is that when

I was saved in 2017, I was at the peak of my career. I was making the most money.

I was the top -selling author at the top -selling new age publisher. And again, I'm not saying this to boast, but to give glory to God of his amazing work.

And my YouTube videos, every week, they'd come up on Saturday nights, and I would pick three cards and then kind of extrapolate what they said for the coming week.

So, it was the week ahead card reading. And they would get 180 ,000 views every week, immediately.

Like, the moment I'd put the video up, there'd be 40 ,000 to 50 ,000 views, to the point where YouTube would say, wait, this is fake.

You don't get that many views immediately. And then in early January of every year,

I would do a reading for the whole year. So, I'd pick a card for every month. I would give a word.

I see a lot of false prophets do this. I would pick a word for that coming year and such.

And so, I already had the channel, and I had always been transparent. I'm one of these people who doesn't have a filter.

That's how I did angel readings. This is important to know. At these false prophet schools, they teach you that you give prophecy by saying whatever pops in your head.

That's what I used to teach at my psychic development classes. Whatever pops in your head. Lindsay Davis, our friend, said when she went through Bethel Supernatural School, that they taught her to say whatever pops in her head there.

It's a method that's taught in all occult psychic classes. When I was first saved, as you know,

I've told you this, I was following two false prophets. Actually, two false prophets.

Joyce Meyer was one. Your fighting for the faith unraveled my...

I was enamored in her. I was so enamored with Joyce Meyer.

When your program, Pastor Rosebrook, compared what she said to scripture, thank you.

Then I was following another woman. I don't even want to say her name or give her publicity. She had a school for prophets.

It reminded me so much of what I was doing in the New Age. This was when I was first saved. I thought, cool,

I can become a female prophetess. I can go on the stage of Bethel and such.

They probably would have loved me with my social media following and such. I was headed in that direction, coming out of the deception in New Age.

Your channel had programs about her. By God's providence, I ended up watching your videos.

That nonsense left my mind after that. I no longer follow her, of course. She would also teach whatever pops in your head is a prophecy.

It's not. That's not a prophecy what pops in your head. The heart is deceitful.

The Bible is very clear on that. We can't just think that if it pops in our head that God gave that to us.

It's not how it works. It works by reading scripture and praying for the Holy Spirit to illuminate the passages that are related to what you're going through.

That's how God speaks to us today. Like you, I get dreams that seem to be prophetic.

I still get very intuitive thoughts and feelings, but I don't give them credence.

I just say, it's a mystery. God's a mystery. I don't need to figure this out.

I don't put it on YouTube. I've actually gotten to the point where if I have something like that happen to me, my prayer goes something like this.

God, I don't ever want to hear that voice again. Please turn it off. Don't let it speak to me like that ever again.

That's usually how that goes. That's an important prayer. I hope everyone hears that.

Because God speaks to me through his word, the same word he speaks to you through. We've all got the same message.

I like to tell people, yeah, I'm a prophet. I've got a word from God, but you can read along if you like.

That's great. I love that. On my YouTube channel,

I never stopped doing videos through my early sanctification process.

I had this big... I used to get visions a lot. That was a lot of the readings

I did is I had visions. God meets you where you're at. I had a vision on January 7th, 2017 at church.

I saw a vision of Jesus. He wasn't moving around like he was a personal vision coming to me.

It was more like a glimpse in heaven, I guess. The veil was lifted is what it seemed like.

The light coming out of his heart was brighter than anything

I've ever seen. But what happened during that moment in January 7th, 2017 was these realizations that God really did send

Jesus to go to the cross for our sins. I had doubted that. Like I said,

I was influenced by the Zeitgeist Movement, that Jesus of the Bible is absolutely correct, that the

Bible is inerrant, and that I needed to get out of the New Age. I didn't know what that meant in the beginning.

I was stumbling around like a newborn colt learning how to walk. I still used cards because until I read

Deuteronomy 18, I didn't know that wasn't allowed. I didn't know how to be a Christian. I was getting criticized by Christians because I'm doing these videos saying, oh,

I'm following Jesus now. People were saying, no, you're not saved. You're not saved. You're still doing this.

My products are still for sale to this day, even though I've asked my publishers repeatedly to take them down.

I'm not selling them. They're still out there. People use that as proof that I'm not saved. What I understand is that the old product's being sold out, and then it will no longer be published.

I pray that's true. I don't have any contact with the publishers anymore. The thing is,

I wrote about 70 books over the course of about 25 years in 38 languages.

It's still out there. It'll probably always be out there in New Age bookstores and old bookstores.

I just pray that it brings people to my website where they can now read about my testimony and my articles that say, you cannot mix

New Age with Christianity, folks. It's opposites. It's oil and water. It's always a challenge.

The reality is that when we do sin or deceive, when

God is gracious and brings us to repentance, there is no way to undo everything we've done. No, and there's consequences for everything we've done.

I've been forgiven, but there's lots of consequences. Yeah. The temporal ones will always continue to hound you.

The good news is that Christ has bled and died for all of your eternal consequences, and so that even all of the sins that you've committed, every false prophecy, every blasphemous word, every doctrine of demon, and every time that you've listened to the devil, he has for real suffered in his body, bleeding, dying, in the wrath of God so that you can be forgiven.

There's a day coming when all of this will fade away and we will see him face to face, and our salvation is given to us as a gift, not something that we've had to earn or anything like that.

And the nice thing is that you never have to doubt that Christ has spoken in his word, and that you never have to wonder if God is truly speaking to you when you've opened up the

Bible. And so that prophetic word, we have real confidence and true comfort of the forgiveness of our sins and reconciliation with God, and that's a comfort that is given in words that will not fall to the ground, that are not deceptive words that are true because he is true.

And so I'm always thankful, and again, for what he's done for us. So Doreen, I'm thankful to Christ that he pursued you and that he rescued you, that he opened your eyes, and like me, he's still continuing to sanctify you.

And so what Christ has done for you, it's just stellar and gives us hope, and we will pray that less and less people will read what you've done in the past and written in the past, and more people will come and want to know more about what has happened because Christ has called you out of darkness into his light.

Amen, and thank you for your comforting work, and I refer a lot of people to fighting for the faith because so many of us coming out of the

New Age go right into a Christian version of deception, and your channel is a truth teller that is so needed right now.

Well I either love it or hate it. I think my channel is like the ice bucket challenge of theology, so at times.

But yeah, it is. Well again, thank you for your time, thank you for telling your story and your insights, and we'll pray that this will be a resource that will help people who have family members or even themselves have dabbled in these things and need to unwind them, and I'm glad that you are putting these resources out there to help people so that they don't have to be deceived.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Doreen. Peace to you, sister. Look forward to seeing you someday in the future face -to -face in the flesh.

That would be awesome. That would be amazing. All right, thank you for your time, and all the information on how you can get to Doreen's channel is going to be in the links down below, so I'm just going to sign off from here.

Thank you all for watching. Of course, support Fighting for the Faith, share the video, and until next time, may

God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and his vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins.