Dead Men Walking Podcast Greg Moore, Daniel Angel & Rocky Hinkleman Episode 7

Dead Men Walking

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:01

Exploring Theology, Doctrine, and all of the Fascinating Subjects in Between, Broadcasting from an

00:07

Undisclosed Location, Dead Men Walking starts now. Well, hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of Dead Men Walking.

00:22

I'm your host, Greg Moore. Thanks for listening. Guys, I just have to tell you once again, thank you so much for reaching out to us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, all the social media platforms, listening and subscribing and giving us positive reviews on Apple and Spotify and Google Play and all the places you get your podcast.

00:42

We really can't do this without you. So I appreciate everyone listening and sharing and really giving us the positive feedback.

00:50

It's going to bring glory to God and we can't do it without you. So now that we got that business out of the way, I've got two guys in studio tonight that are the brothers in the

00:59

Lord and I respect both of them. And I think we're just going to have a fun time.

01:05

I have Daniel Angel or DJ, as we call him. How you doing? Doing well. Thanks for letting me be here.

01:10

And then I have the man himself, Rocky Hinkelman. How are you? Hey, man. Good. Yeah.

01:16

Good to see you guys. So I wanted to bring you guys in here. I reached out to you.

01:21

I know we've kind of known each other through people and, you know, personally as well, too, for the last few years.

01:29

And I just kind of wanted to get into a couple different topics with you. I know. Now, I think both of you are musicians, correct?

01:37

Or at least, was that right or no? Or just really into music? Rocky's definitely really into music.

01:43

He plays a great radio. He plays a great radio. Maybe even a record player, but yeah.

01:51

So we're going to play a little name that to 1990s Christian contemporary music styles backed by popular demand.

01:57

We did it a few episodes ago and people absolutely loved it. So we're going to do a little bit of that later.

02:02

We'll talk a little bit of music. I know, DJ, you're involved in or at least interested in and help, you know, affect change in the political arena, which

02:12

I am too a little bit. So we'll talk a little bit about that. We're just going to talk about interesting stuff that I think can glorify the

02:19

Lord and, you know, maybe encourage some people and maybe even spread a little wisdom and discernment in the meantime.

02:25

So, but before we do that, I love to have my guests give maybe a little 5, 10, 15 minute bio of who they are, where they came from, maybe a little bit of their testimony, how the

02:35

Lord saved them. So DJ, can we start with you and just tell the folks a little bit about yourself? Sure.

02:41

Whoever is watching is probably looking like, who is this dude? He looks familiar. I know,

02:46

I know him from some place. I'm Laura Angel's husband. Right. That is like my claim to fame.

02:53

Okay. Everywhere I go. Sure. Are you married to Laura? And she's a worship leader in the Ohio. Yeah.

02:59

She's at the Rock AG in Oregon. Yeah. But personally, I got saved in 2000.

03:06

Before that, I grew up in a Christian home. My mother was a single mother. And so she was all about keeping me in church and whatnot.

03:13

And grew up in my grandparents house because my mother left my father. Okay. I was four.

03:19

It was abusive. Beat on her, beat on me, beat on my sister. So I pretty much was spoon fed and forced

03:27

Christianity. And so about the age of 16, I became rebellious.

03:33

It took a long time for me. My sister started way sooner than I did in that rebellious stage.

03:38

But about 16 is when it happened for me. And shortly after I graduated, I was to the point where my mom was done with me, kicked me out, said, you got to go.

03:48

So pretty much it was about a month after I graduated, found myself homeless. All of a sudden,

03:53

I didn't really have a job to have anywhere to go. And I found a couch to crash on with a cousin who was actually a cousin by marriage, was actually in the process of divorcing my cousin.

04:06

Okay. So there's all this drama that's taking place. And here I am homeless, sleeping on this guy's couch.

04:14

So anyways, a lot of stuff happened that I should not have been a part of, but I've never actually been that guy, you know?

04:23

Okay. What do you mean by that? It was like, I don't have this horrible testimony where I was strung out on drugs and I was an alcoholic and I was a womanizer.

04:32

I don't have that. That's good. And praise God, I don't have that. Praise God you don't. Yeah. But I was in the midst of all that.

04:40

My cousin, who I'm staying with, was actually selling drugs out the house. And my uncle, who was a senior pastor, after,

04:49

I don't know, it may have been a year, maybe a year and a half of me being with my cousin, shows up out the blue.

04:55

And he's like, God sent me to come get you. You get your stuff. I have a room in my basement.

05:01

You're going to come and stay with me. And so I said, all right, you know, sleeping from a couch to a bedroom.

05:09

That's an upgrade. Show me where it's at. And so I went and not too long after that, my cousin actually got raided.

05:16

And so I would have been really in, in all that. And I would've got charges for things I wasn't actually involved in.

05:21

I just happened to be there. So I'm like, man, God is,

05:27

God might be real. This is really happening here. He came and he said, God sent him. And, but I was still being stupid.

05:35

Um, shortly after that, I was really big in basketball and playing sports.

05:40

And after I graduated, I played anything I could find, uh, any league I could find and, um, had a lot of friends from high school that, that I was like, we played together, let's keep playing together.

05:50

Right. So we did, uh, well, there was one guy who I really didn't know, but a friend of mine wanted him to play on this team with us in a

05:59

YMCA league. And so I said, okay, you can come play. And he goes, well, he doesn't have the money to play.

06:04

I'm like, all right, well, I'll front the money. Um, so I did, uh, well, the guy never played and he never paid me back.

06:10

And so I was pretty angry over it. Right. And, uh, we kind of met up on Avondale and if anybody knows, uh,

06:17

Toledo, uh, there's not too many white folks on Avondale. Okay. Um, so we ended up meeting up and I want my money and he's adamant about not giving me, uh, my money.

06:29

Uh, him and his four friends are adamant about me not getting my money back. Uh, so I find myself, uh, in the emergency room, uh, don't know how

06:38

I got there. Concussion got, got beat up pretty good. Um, and of course this is putting my life in perspective.

06:45

All of a sudden I'm like, man, I almost, almost lost my life over 80 bucks. Right. Um, and, and that,

06:53

I don't know if it was that night or, or around that time, but I have this vivid dream.

06:59

Uh, and, and, and I'm not a super spiritual person. Um, you know,

07:04

I believe that God fully operates in our lives and does all the things, but I'm not that super spiritual guy. Um, but this dream is no doubt in my mind.

07:12

God's speaking to me and I'm in the middle of all these tornadoes.

07:18

Um, and which at that time, my life was nothing but drama and chaos. Um, but I hear this voice and it says, look down.

07:26

I look down and I'm standing on this like granite block. It's like, as long as you stay on the block, the tornadoes won't ever touch you.

07:35

And I wake up from then that was, that was all the dream was, but I wake up from the dream and I am bawling my eyes out, you know, and, and right there

07:43

I was on a, on a, a makeshift bed that was actually like a futon in a basement, giving my life to right there for here on out,

07:53

I will serve you, uh, for the rest of my days. And that's my real conversion story.

08:00

Um, and then after that, I went to school of ministry, became a credentialed pastor in the AG. Uh, met

08:06

Laura before the school ministry, but we, we kind of fell in love during that time. Um, I got six beautiful kids now elected official, uh, in Pembrokeville where I live.

08:17

Um, I don't know if I'm a musician, but I try to be one.

08:23

Uh, but that's, that's pretty much my story. Uh, and, and all of that to say I'm Laura Angel's husband, right?

08:29

And everywhere I go, I'm Laura Angel's husband. Yeah. And what a blessing she is too. I had the honor of, uh, playing a few times with her and, uh, it was, it's amazing.

08:40

She has a heart for worship, heart for the Lord, just like you do. And, uh, you guys are just a great couple together to power a couple for the

08:46

Lord, as I say. Um, so, uh, yeah, Rocky, why don't you give us a little bit background about, about you?

08:54

Okay. Yeah. I just starting, uh, Oh, I started with, you know, my father was in the army and so I did grow up kind of moving around a lot.

09:03

We were in Montana and Arizona and Texas, Michigan, and we came back to Detroit after moving around a lot.

09:13

And that was about the time we left my dad. I was in third grade and we left.

09:19

I have my brother and my sister and me and my mom. And we, we, we ended up leaving after a bunch of junk. And then we ended up staying at my grandma's for a little bit.

09:27

Then I'm like an aunt's house for a year. I was going to Meadowvale over here. And after that year, we ended up finding a apartment, a large amount of apartments.

09:37

So I ended up staying in a large amount for most of the rest of my, of, of that area of my life. And my mom, we started going to a church.

09:46

Um, it was non -denominational. It was guitar driven, uh, casual, you know, which is kind of like my life now.

09:55

I guess, uh, I think AG church found, you know, I found a lot of black cause like,

10:00

I guess I don't want to say like agree with, with that suited. I don't even want to say suited because that sounds like I'm trying to find a church to suit me.

10:07

and really quick for people listening, AG church, what is that? Assembly of God. Assembly God. Okay. I just wanted to make sure for people listening.

10:14

Yep. Uh, but this first church was non -denominational. Uh, my mom got remarried.

10:20

He was, uh, uh, you know, he had just recently got saved. Um, and it was awesome little life for a minute.

10:29

Uh, and the stuff started happening at the church. The pastor's wife left him and we ended up like, we all went to church one day and no one was there.

10:38

He ended up kind of freaking out and leaving and going to, he was going back to Texas. And, uh, and then from then on, we kind of, uh, uh, my stepdad went back to, um, drinking and he ended up, we ended up, they ended up leaving, uh, he ended up leaving and we were kind of, from then on, we went to just the kind of like the bigger churches around Toledo.

11:00

Okay. And when I was 17 or 18, probably, uh, my friend asked me to come to another church that was like, uh,

11:12

I'm pretty sure it's non -denominational. He had, I don't know how specific we want to get with names of churches.

11:18

I don't know. That's whatever, how, whatever you want to share. That church was horrible. It does.

11:25

Uh, it does have like a, he was a worship leader from another church and he started his own church. Okay. And we don't know that's what

11:31

I read, like Brian Collins and stuff. Uh, and being like completely fallen in love with the

11:39

Lord. I ended up moving to Kenwood with a couple of friends, Kenwood apartments with a couple of friends. And it was like a real good time in my life.

11:46

Uh, we had, so it was like late teens. Yup. Okay. Yup. Uh, and I remember like worship times in our bedrooms, you know what

11:54

I mean? Like we had like, we were like three guys that were living, we're, we're reaching, holding, we're trying to find like a, a, a

12:03

Christian life. And, um, and slowly some of the leaders started falling off, uh, at this church.

12:09

And even like good, uh, men that I had been kind of under for a couple of years at this point started falling off kind of like really bad.

12:19

And I got to a point where I was like, this, no one can really do it anyway.

12:25

I hadn't seen anybody live a Christian life and actually like fill it out and like finish it except for one man that an uncle of mine,

12:37

Bob Schultz. I don't know if you know him. And I might know him. It sounds familiar. And he, he would always encourage me or, you know, you'd talk about stuff and then, you know, it was times in his life that were, uh, unique in the sense of like, maybe too far for me, you know?

12:55

And I was like, well, if I can't bring a devil's food cake over there, then this isn't Christianity or this isn't

13:00

God or whatever. You know what I mean? So I was going like, oh, I couldn't find like a, uh, but he would pray with me.

13:07

You know what I mean? He would like, like he would, who he's, who I would go to. I had an uncle stay in my house once and he took off with all this money and he's who helped me pay for that.

13:17

You know what I mean? Like he would just, the kind of guy that were like, uh, anyways, we ended up that church ended up kind of crashing.

13:24

There's it's, it's actually pretty awesome. Now there's a, it can be, uh, uh, not his name, but that church now is,

13:33

I heard it's doing awesome. Um, but that pastor actually ended up having a heart attack, uh, later on and dying, but all three of us that were there kind of fell off from that.

13:42

Um, and then I did start, uh, maybe not exactly partying, but I was drinking and smoking and, and, uh, having, uh, just, uh, like, sure.

13:54

Just living a, living a, uh, you know, carnal life without God and wanting to know why and having questions and still, and still wanting to learn more, but at the same time thinking that this isn't like a real, like this

14:09

Christian walk. I don't know if anyone can really do it. Sure. And, um, uh, we were at like a family thing.

14:16

And, um, my uncle Bob said, Hey, I'm going to, I forget who does a vision now.

14:23

What's Josh enjoy Josh. Okay. So my uncle Bob goes, Josh, there's a guy I want you to meet.

14:28

Josh Hester that looks just like one of my cousins, Ron. Right.

14:34

Uh, and he's like, you're gonna, you gotta come visit this church. I'm going to called solid rock in the

14:40

South end. Uh, I think you're going to like this pastor and stuff. And I was like, I, you know, and until for like,

14:46

I hadn't even really thought about trying to find another church, um, before this. And that led me for a year going and looking out, looking for churches.

14:57

Okay. Um, I was going to a couple of churches. I remember I was, I went to one church probably, you know? Oh. And at this time

15:02

I had my son, uh, Solomon, who's going to be 21 this year. He, uh, he was born in that time.

15:10

Uh, when I, when I like completely walked away, um, and, and, and I remember going to this one church and we went there, we were like,

15:20

I went probably in the, I had him in kids church probably like five times and, or the nursery maybe.

15:26

And when I realized that no one was bringing their Bibles in to church and I was, and which

15:32

I'm fine with using the, yeah, using a phone or an app or whatever. Yeah. This might've been before that.

15:37

This was probably 2002 or something. Okay. 2003. Um, but people are, you know, using the screen, the big screen up front or whatever for scripture references.

15:51

I don't know. And, but anyway, so I started and I was like, well, what about that church that my uncle Bob was talking about? You know? And I remember going there, not completely familiar with the

15:59

South end. Um, but I knew it wasn't probably in the best neighborhood. We go in the back, uh, we park and it was at this time,

16:07

I don't know, we went to the front door. I don't know. I'm still, you might still do that. Go with those big steps. Oh, if you parked in the back, you went through that back door.

16:14

Where, where, where are we going though? What church are you talking about? This is the rock. This is the rock, which is currently vision ministries building.

16:21

Okay. So I assume you've been there. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where you pastor at. Oh, so we're at the rock in Oregon now, but we, that's the one

16:29

I've been to. Oh, okay. Rock in Oregon. You never been to divisions or banquets or anything? I don't think so. No. Well, on the corner of South and Broadway is this old

16:36

Masonic building. And it, and, um, you know, back in the early two thousands, it was solid rock ministries when we were in that building.

16:44

Um, and then we outgrew the parking lot first. And then we actually outgrew the sanctuary. We were doing like three, uh, three services every morning.

16:52

And so pastor Keith at the time, Keith step, uh, decided that he had a great idea. We're going to split the church.

16:58

We're going to plant vision ministries. Uh, with Josh and joy Hester in that building.

17:04

And then we're going to move the rock, uh, which at the time was still solid rock to, um, to Oregon.

17:10

Okay. We're actually looking for the East side of Toledo, but we couldn't find a building that could fit us. So it actually moved us into Oregon.

17:16

Um, sorry, rock. Can you take away? Oh, yeah. Thank you. No, but that's the building. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to, for everyone listening.

17:23

So that's where, and you went there, how long ago was that? It was like 2002, 2003.

17:29

You said right in there. Okay. And, and, and I had my son with me and I walking up the steps and I remember going up and feeling like, you know, this, uh, like another, which is probably our seventh or eighth church we've been to.

17:43

Um, but I was still in the world or whatever. I was still not living the life that I was trying, that I was, uh,

17:51

God, I didn't touch my heart yet. And so I'm walking in and we walked to that. I remember walking in the front door of the main sanctuary part and.

18:01

Something happened where I was like, it was like a blanket over me and I'm, and I'm not, uh, I hadn't, you know,

18:07

I have been going to non -denominational churches. I hadn't been to like, uh, exactly spirit filled services or anything, but I remember feeling something different and sitting down and I'll never forget the guy, a couple spaces to my right.

18:21

I don't know if he went on himself or he had slept in, slept there.

18:30

I don't know if he was homeless or something. Yeah. And I, and I remember like,

18:35

I feel like I maybe should be here. Um, and, and they had an honor.

18:42

I mean, just kind of for like the outreach perspective, like they're taking in those that are in need of Christ.

18:48

Yup. Exactly. Yeah. Yup. Which is everyone, by the way, you don't have to be homeless or certain economic status or, you know, right.

18:57

Yeah. Everyone needs Jesus. Yeah. That, that irrigation was, was definitely, um, very, very much inner city, very poor people in desperate need.

19:09

So they, they were there because they were in desperate need. Many of them, not because they were in desperate need of Christ.

19:14

They didn't realize it. Yeah. They were there for whatever the outreach was, was going to be able to help them for that day.

19:20

And I don't know if every of the churches I had been to. So was it at, uh, the rock where you, where you kind of had your conversion kind of, man,

19:29

I went up there for, uh, you know, they, uh, it, it, they had a lot of like talking before it, you know, uh, just like conversation, but like he didn't go right into worship.

19:41

And as soon as worship started, I remember taking my, taking Solly up to. My aunt,

19:47

Carrie and uncle Bob and like saying, can you hold on? My, and I just went and just had my hands up at that time.

19:52

People went up front for worship. Uh, uh, and I mean, it just was probably six rows deep of sure.

20:01

Frontline where we were Ember before Ember. You were Ember before Ember was Ember, huh? I'll make sure

20:07

I totally get that next time I see him. I'm gonna have to get him on here too. He's the second time someone's mentioned him on one of these episodes.

20:13

Yeah. His reputation precedes himself, I guess. It's my dude. Yeah. So that's where you had your kind of, uh, conversion moment, as I would say.

20:23

And you, you said something that's so interesting to me, and I think it's lacking in today's

20:28

Christianity is you did not have anyone around you, a discipling you or, or be even being a disciple to where you could, like, because you said, you know,

20:38

I'd never seen anyone walk out their, their faith in any certain way that pertained to the

20:45

Bible or, you know, effectively. And I think we're really lacking where we're all about going out and, you know, ministry and all that.

20:53

But when, in fact, our first command is to disciple, then to preach the good news, disciple men by men, we mean all humankind, not just men.

21:02

I went probably my second or third time, uh, going back, maybe even my second, maybe my second time,

21:09

Pastor Keith called me up and he was, and he called you over called DJ over and he was like,

21:15

DJ, do you know him yet? Or have you met him yet? Or something like that. And he was like, oh no, I've been meaning to say hi to you. How are you doing?

21:20

And Pastor Keith was like, you're taking them out to lunch, right? No, like immediately just how

21:27

Pastor Keith was like, if you say, it's a good leader, like he immediately starts, he kind of starts putting you to work.

21:34

Like he's like, you're like, I started with, that's when I started working in kids' church, like pretty quick.

21:41

Yeah. And I loved it. You know, I still work in kids' church now. I've always loved kids' church.

21:46

Yeah. The reason why I ended up at The Rock. So, so I told you my uncle was the senior pastor. It was actually the senior pastor of the church

21:53

I kind of grew up in. But then one of the reasons why I started to rebel as hard as I did is my mom got remarried and I hadn't had a father since I was four.

22:03

So my entire life, I didn't have a dad in the home and all of a sudden she's remarried and she ends up marrying shortly after they get remarried, the

22:10

Pentecostal holiness denomination contacts him and says, we'd like for you to plant a church in the

22:16

East side of Toledo. And so they did. And now all of a sudden I have my aunt and uncle's church that I grew up in and my, my mom's church.

22:23

Right. And. Kind of caught in between. Yeah. And, and whatever skills

22:28

I had, they both wanted, you know? Well, I ended up going, I have a, I have like an older brother who's really not my brother.

22:35

It's kind of hard to explain. But he's a freak musician and he's traveled the world doing music.

22:43

His life is in shambles now, but at this time he was going all over the place and somehow, some way pastor

22:50

Keith booked him for a block party and he calls me up and goes, Hey, I need you to play keys for me over at Danny Thomas park for this block party.

22:59

And I'm like, man, I really don't want to do that. He goes, but there's a, there's a three on three basketball tournament. So after you're done playing keys, you can jump in the game.

23:06

I'm like, dude, I'm there. And so, so I go and and, and his name is

23:12

Fred. He has actually just came back from California, uh, to, to try to reconcile with his wife.

23:18

And, and, uh, so he's kind of new back in, in the faith as well himself. Uh, but he came back playing the guitar and when he left, he couldn't play the guitar, he did nothing but keys and he was an

23:29

R and B type singer anyways. Um, and so we did the, we did the set. Um, nobody really from, from the church has talked to me at all, which is all right, whatever, you know,

23:38

I'm here for, for my brother and to play basketball. And then we did the tournament and we won cause that's how good

23:45

I used to be. Um, and then they're all cleaning up, but I go sit down over on this bench and I started trying to play the guitar cause

23:53

I want to be like Fred and PK comes over and he sits down and he's like,

23:58

Hey, I'm, I'm pastor key. Thank you for, for playing. I'm sorry. I didn't meet you earlier. And, and, uh, we started talking and before I know

24:05

I'm going to his house for dinner or at night, you know, like, all right, man. And, and it was just the fact that he's like,

24:12

Hey, you're going to come over and eat. Yeah. And that was the first time. Um, it was the first time I met a pastor who didn't know who my family was.

24:23

And so therefore didn't have to talk to me because it's the right thing to do.

24:29

Right. And then at the same time, didn't care what I brought to the table and he's inviting me to his house to have dinner with his family, you know, and I was like,

24:37

So, so that, that concept that you just said that you hadn't seen anyone walk out that life and actually do it to fruition.

24:46

PK did, man. Right. He was the dude. Yeah. Um, and, and you see the fruit of his labor, you know, um, because of him,

24:55

Laura and I went to the school of ministry and became pastors, uh, which I'm actually technically not a credentialed pastor anymore because I got into politics, but I was

25:04

Josh and joy went to the school of ministry because of him, uh, Steve and angel Rocky, um,

25:11

Isaiah row, uh, delaying a ball. Who's a world missionary and Zach and Danica was the world missionary.

25:18

And I mean, there's all these young adults at that time meets a

25:23

PK and all of a sudden their lives are changed because he walked it out and then he may have been the first guy in my life to do that.

25:30

No, there's definitely, you know, many examples out there. Oh yeah, I just, it was, it was so sad to hear that you're looking around and I've had that feeling before too, when

25:39

I was a young Christian, like there's not a whole lot of people actually effectively and truly walking out the

25:45

Christian life. It, it can almost seem like a farce a little bit. Uh, like we're all just playing this game. Um, and then when you finally do meet that brother or sister that is walking it out, you know, um, sanctified and, and, and doing, uh, the

25:59

Lord's work, you're just attracted to him because it's like, yeah, that's, that, that's what I want.

26:05

You know? And, uh, well, then later you realized that we're all broken sinners.

26:10

Oh, absolutely. You know, then later on, I was like, who was I judging back then? Like who, maybe they weren't so bad.

26:18

Right, right. Maybe it was me. That was not, so talk about that a little bit too. You said you were a credentialed pastor, but not then when you got into elected office, tell me a little bit about that.

26:28

Like, how did that come about? So, and cause it sounds like too, you had a little bit of a weird kind of view of church, like you were saying, like you were kind of pulled between two different churches, you were always in around church life, and then you end up becoming a pastor out of all the different things you could have done.

26:43

And then what happens after that? Why, why not still credentialed? well, I'll start at the beginning of that view was, was hypocrisy.

26:51

Um, the, the majority of what I saw was, was hypocrisy. Um, and so my, my aunt and my, um, my aunt, my mom, you know, their sisters.

27:02

Um, and when my mom went and planted this church, all of a sudden they became competitors.

27:08

Okay. Uh, their, their relationship fell apart. In fact, my, my aunt passed away and there was no reconciliation between the two, but yet they both believe you can't have repentance without reconciliation.

27:19

Right. I was like, well, your sister's on the deathbed and I'm not trying to blame or blast my mom.

27:25

I love her with my heart, but that's what I saw. Uh, and so in trying to process that in my 16 to 20 year old brain, um,

27:35

I just was like, I don't want anything to do with any of this stuff. It's all fake. Yep. And all you guys are fake. Um, but then meeting

27:42

PK and, and, and just having this genuine love for people.

27:48

Um, and, and he wasn't a phenomenal preacher. In fact, on the scale of preaching, it was probably bad, but it was, but it was the same story and the same jokes, you know?

28:03

Yeah. No, I, I, yeah, I'd know a few preachers like that, but the fact that, that he loved unconditional, he went above and beyond for anyone who walked in there.

28:15

Uh, and here he is, um, in the, in the South end of Toledo. He's from Texas. He has a mullet.

28:21

Yeah. Right. His wife is wearing a fanny pack and she's from Oregon. Uh, the state, not the, not the city.

28:28

Uh, so they don't fit in at all. Right. Um, and, but yet they, they just love people.

28:34

And so having that experience and just having that, that God encounter.

28:41

Yeah. I gotta be somewhere. Right. This thing is real, even though people are failing me. Right. Yeah.

28:46

Maybe I should stop looking for people. Right. Put my trust in people. Yeah, exactly.

28:51

That's what I'm trying to get at. Um, and, and, and then this guy comes along and so I'm like, this is where I'm going to be. Um, where, where were we going here?

29:00

No, but I was just saying, no, I was just saying when, uh, you know, so you become a pastor and then, then into politics and what, you know, when did that happen?

29:08

And how, so I went to school ministry, became a credentialed minister in the

29:13

AG, uh, when I met Rocky, I was the, uh, the young adult pastor, um, which

29:18

I had just become the young adult pastor, uh, probably because he was like, did you meet this guy yet? That's probably why he was yelling at me.

29:25

Right. Um, but then shortly after that, uh, I actually ended up having another mentor, uh, who wasn't pastor

29:32

Keith. Um, primarily because I always kind of felt like BK was up here and I was kind of down here, but then there was pastor

29:40

James, who was our associate pastor. Okay. Between, uh, he looked like Dr. J I mean, his fingers were that long.

29:46

He had a kind of a fro. He worked for Chrysler. So he was rich compared to all of us. Um, but, but he took me under, like I was his own son and actually started to mentor me.

29:56

We had a Bible study together. He would show about the blue and say, we're going to Olive garden. You drive, I got to work.

30:02

He would work. And then we get there and we talk finances. We talk big picture dreaming of your life.

30:07

I mean, he was a real mentor, uh, that, that poured into me. Um, and he actually may have been the first real father figure

30:15

I ever had in my life at 20, 21 years old. Uh, so I, and he's passed away.

30:21

He went on to be with the Lord. Well, he became very sick. Um, and at this time he was the associate pastor.

30:27

I was the young adult pastor. When he became really sick, he stepped away, uh, from the ministry.

30:32

And, and I moved up into this ministry coordinator was actually the title, but it was the associate pastor position.

30:38

Okay. And so I was the associate pastor for, for quite a while. And, uh, in 2009, uh, over the course of 2009,

30:47

I became pretty good friends with D Michael Collins, uh, who ended up being the mayor of Toledo and he passed away with a heart attack.

30:53

Sure. Uh, well, during that time, um, I started to care about government.

30:59

Sure. And up until that point, we would have all of the mayors, uh, and several of the, the council members would come to any outreach event, especially if it was like the, the

31:08

Christmas outreach event or the big fundraiser event, they would come except for our representative, who was

31:14

Michael Craig. Okay. And at the time I didn't know this, but I was like, why doesn't our representative come?

31:20

And I know his first name is Michael, right? Yeah. So I jump on the website and here's Michael Collins and he represents the

31:27

South end of Toledo or the South end of Toledo. Yeah. So I reached out to, to councilman Collins, start building a relationship with them, um, have a couple of meetings with them and what now we started to become friends and I'm like,

31:39

Hey, we're going to have a, a barbecue rib cookoff challenge, would you be one of the guest judges?

31:47

Yeah, I'll do that. I'll come over there. Sure. So he comes to the church and he goes, uh, Hey, this is really awesome, man.

31:52

You got so many people here. This is really cool. But I want you to know I'm not your representative. What do you mean?

31:58

He goes, I represent the South end. I'm like, we're in the South end. He goes, no, you're in the old South end. Right. And your guy is

32:03

Michael Craig. He does the old South end in East Toledo. And so that was my first introduction into thinking

32:10

I know something in politics and finding out I know nothing. Um, and so anyways, over the course of that 2009 year, um, um,

32:18

Michael began to tell me I should run for office, that I had certain qualities that should, should run for office and run for that city council's position.

32:26

And so I did. And that election was November of 2010. Uh, so I went through that entire cycle while during, before that happened, we had a change in our senior pastor from pastor

32:37

Keith to pastor Carlos. Um, Carlos had a very different view of, of ministry than Keith did.

32:43

Okay. Uh, and so, um, me and Carlos didn't quite see eye to eye.

32:48

Okay. Uh, but he's the leader. So I'm going to, I'm going to follow his leadership. Uh, well then when

32:53

I started getting into the campaign season, come to find out, I can't really talk with the church secretaries about the finances.

33:00

I can't really meet with ministry leaders because I'm doing door to door and I'm trying to raise money for this campaign. Um, and so I went to Carlos and I said, listen, you're, you're really going a different direction than what

33:12

I'm doing anyways. So you need an associate pastor who, who agrees with you more than I do.

33:17

So they can help you. Um, I still want to be as active and involved in the church as you'll let me be, but I'm going to step away from the church from that position, if that's okay.

33:28

And so that's how I ended up stepping down as you saw, and he was already on that page too. And during that conversation, he goes, well,

33:34

I'm glad you brought it up. Cause I wanted to bring it up. I didn't know when. So I'm like, I praise God, God's working here. So we're both on the same page here.

33:40

Yeah. At that same time was, was the financial collapse that was happening. Sure. And so our church was getting hit really hard because we, we still had vision ministry in the

33:50

South then that we were helping finance. Uh, all of our people were either low income or poor, so they're getting slammed.

33:58

So our tithe and offering is dropping. And as an, a credentialed minister, I got to give 80 % of my tithe to Columbus, to the, to the denomination and 20 % to my local church.

34:10

So I call them and say, Liz, everybody's hurting. You know, this we're really hurting. I'm one of the only people that have a consistent job.

34:18

I want to give a hundred percent of my tithe to my church. Will you let me do that? And they're like, no, we won't let you do that.

34:25

Oh, I don't need these credentials then. Right. You know, if my, if I'm called to the rock and my tithe is needed at the rock and you're not going to let me do that, then what do

34:37

I need your piece of paper for anymore? Um, especially when my wife still has hers, technically we still got it.

34:45

Uh, so that's ended up how I ended up losing the credentials, but I stepped down from pastoring to run for public office.

34:52

Yeah. So you just kind of shifted the focus on where your ministry was at. It sounds like. Right. Pretty much. So did you run in, in 2010 and did you win?

35:03

No, I did not. Thanks for bringing up a hurtful memory, Greg, even though I think

35:09

I've brought it up, but look at, look for all those people aspiring to thinking, you know, they have this, they watch these

35:16

Netflix shows and thinks politics is a certain thing. It's totally different. Totally. It's a lot more, it's a lot more work.

35:22

There's a lot of losing involved, especially if we work on even a state or national campaign. You live or die 60 hours a week, and then you have a one in a million chance of winning if your guy or your lady wins.

35:33

So there's a lot of heartbreak in politics. Um, but so I wasn't bringing that up to be, uh, you know, to remind you,

35:40

I've just seen where the timeline is and what you ran for. Yeah. Let's talk about it a little bit because we talk about theology and doctrine.

35:47

Obviously politics intersect with that. There's a lot of books of the Bible that talk about governmental authority and, and politics per se.

35:55

So I have no problem getting into that a little bit with you as well too. So give me a little bit about, um, you know, that 2010 run, what you ran for and then eventually, uh, what seat you did win.

36:06

Well, I, so, uh, the 2010 seat was for the district three, uh, city council in Toledo. And, um, what

36:13

I was running for was, was pretty much to have a representation for the old South end. Cause that's where I grew up at. Sure.

36:19

Um, and I started going around. So, so I had those conversations with, with, uh, soon to be mayor

36:24

Collins. Um, and of course he's giving me all this inside information that I wouldn't know otherwise, uh, which is driving my frustrations.

36:34

Um, and then I started going around and started talking to small business owners in the area and they all are sharing the same frustrations.

36:42

Sure. So it isn't just one politician, not liking the other politician. There's real problems here.

36:48

Uh, so my, my goal was just to real have a real representation for, for our district, uh, with no specific policy agenda in mind, it really was,

36:58

I want somebody who's going to show up and I know who you are and when I have a problem, I can go to you, uh, and I don't have to search for you to be my representative public servant.

37:09

Yeah. That was my, that was my whole thought process. Um, and so I'm, I'm a very zealous guy once I decided to do something.

37:17

Sure. And so it was like January 5th or something. Uh, I went and pulled petitions.

37:23

And the, the Lucas County board of elections was like, we, we're not even ready for people to be pulling petitions.

37:28

I'm here to pull petitions. Right. So I pulled the petitions. They didn't even have a packet for me to explain, uh, what you need to do for your treasurer, for all this stuff.

37:38

They didn't have any of that stuff to together for me. Um, and I needed, I think I needed 300 signatures.

37:44

I think, I don't remember the number, but she could have talked to you about what's that she could have, yeah, she should have went into, into better detail.

37:52

Um, but as you know, when you go to a board of elections, you're supposed to ask for a party representative and then they're the ones that kind of guide you through this.

38:01

Well, I'm in the South end of Toledo. There's like four Republicans in my precinct.

38:08

Okay. I'm not running as a Democrat and there are no Republican voters, so I'm running as an independent.

38:14

You know, that's just my only option. And so there is no one to represent me at the board of elections supposedly.

38:21

So anyways, I take this stuff. I go to our church one

38:26

Sunday and then I go to a vision the next Sunday and I have 300 signatures and I go and I turn them in and I'm excited.

38:36

I'm ready to run. Uh, about a week goes by, I get a phone call and they're like, Hey, uh, you're, you're three signatures shy of meeting the threshold.

38:44

Oh, no problem. I can get those. No, you can't. This is a one -time deal. Right. Turn it in or you don't, you know?

38:50

Yeah. And so I'm devastated now. I'm like, dang, this is after signs. No, no, it hasn't got there yet.

38:56

Hasn't got there yet. This is right. This is still January. Yeah. This is still to qualify for the ballot. Right.

39:02

And right. Yeah. Well, well, February rolls around and I get a certified letter from the board of elections and I don't even want to open it.

39:08

I'm like, dude, it's to tell me that I'm not going to be on the ballot. Well, Laura opens it and she goes, you really need to read this.

39:14

And so I read it and it's like, um, we're going to let you withdraw your name. Resubmit the application fees, re -pull petitions, and we're going to let you get a second chance here.

39:26

And I got this, I still have a certified letter. And so I'm like, seriously? I call them up like, yeah, it's the real deal.

39:33

Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Well, from there I checked all 300 signatures.

39:39

Yeah. Right. And I know every single signature on that, on that thing is, is, uh,

39:45

I went, actually I went to the max, whatever that number was. I say you do about a 20 % overrun if you can.

39:51

Right. And literally I went to the max, whatever it was. Um, and, and Michael Collins was so mad at me.

39:58

He was like, why did you turn those in without telling me you were going to turn them in? I was like, oh, I was ready to go. Right.

40:03

Yeah. But, um, so I know that I am, I'm going to be on the ballot. And, um, so I turned those in and the ladies in the office said, yep, you're good to go.

40:13

Uh, we only raised a couple thousand dollars, but I had yard signs everywhere.

40:19

Every day I get off work, went door to door, go meet business owners. I was everywhere. Um, to the point where I had like guys,

40:25

Pete, Pete Gerken and guys were searching me out because they saw my name. Right. It literally was everywhere.

40:31

Well, July rolls around and they're getting ready to certify the ballots. Excuse me.

40:38

And, uh, the Republican, uh, chairman John Steinbrook, uh, who, by the way, asked me to run as a

40:44

Republican back in like March, uh, when, when they saw my name started popping up all over the place.

40:51

Um, he former member of the stain. They don't remember the state.

40:57

Uh, that's what John. Oh, really? Yeah. You know, John Stambrick. No. Oh, he refuses to, to certify like stain the ban.

41:07

Yeah. Toledo band. Toledo band. Right. Yeah. Okay. They were awesome. I think

41:13

I just throw that in there randomly. Well, that's what we're talking about. It's, it's really funny when, you know,

41:18

I had like over a thousand downloads in like East Germany. So these people are going to be like, what are you talking about?

41:25

Who's staying and what is Oregon and what are all these Pete Gergen? You're going to have to explain to us how you have a connection to East Germany.

41:32

I don't know. Probably. That's where, that's where the reformation started. Maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know.

41:38

It was really crazy on the first week. I, you know, it gives you where, where people are downloading from. And clearly this was, this area is the biggest, but the second biggest was

41:48

East Germany through apples. Yeah. Most of it through apple Spotify. It was more like, uh, like Russia and like Indonesia.

41:56

But I have not been compromised. Don't worry. Just cause Russians are listening to the podcast. They're nice. Mike's they got bugs in them.

42:05

But anyway, so, uh, yeah. So, so, so anyway, your part, the

42:10

Republican party chair calls you. Yeah. So he wants, he wants me to run as a Republican. Um, I say no, cause there's no

42:17

Republican voters over here. Um, but I told him, you know, Hey, I, I am a conservative, so if I win, you're going to have a conservative in that seat.

42:26

Right. Um, and, and I left that conversation thinking he was in my corner.

42:31

Sure. Uh, well, a little while later, he actually puts a Republican up. And so I call and say,

42:37

Hey, what's kind of what's going on? Well, I have to put somebody up. It's my job. Yeah. But if you win, you know, you, you get out of the, uh, of the primary, we're going to, we're going to definitely support you or whatever.

42:47

I'm like, all right, no, no problem. Uh, well then the time comes to certify the ballot. He won't certify the ballot.

42:53

Uh, and then I go through the appeal process. I get turned down again. And the only other option is to appeal to the

42:59

Supreme court Supreme court. Okay. Well, during this time, we find out that there's a

43:04

Democrat who did the exact same thing I did. And it was a few signatures shy. He's been a lawyer for like 30 something years.

43:11

And so he should, should understand all this stuff much better than I did, but they gave him the same opportunity.

43:17

Okay. And I'm starting to formulate this stuff. Like, Oh, I got the opportunity because you wanted him on the ballot and he made the same mistake

43:26

I did. Right. So they had to do it for everyone. So they had to do it for everyone. Um, well, he doesn't have a primary and so my attorney and he and his attorney begin talking and they're like, uh, we can't do this together because you're a

43:40

Republican, you're a Democrat and, uh, or he's a Democrat and I'm not pretty much. Um, cause we don't want to make other people mad and not give us some money down the road.

43:49

That was his argument. Yeah. Um, but you need to, you need to sue like we're suing and all this stuff.

43:55

So we started going through this whole process and we ended up getting notified that the

44:01

Supreme court isn't going to hear this case until after the primary. And then once that happens anyways, they're not going to overturn the voter.

44:10

Right. And so you're pretty much out of luck. Yeah. It's a way to advocate there, having to make a ruling. And I totally understand it.

44:17

Yeah. Totally agree with that. Yeah. Um, but he didn't have a primary, so they heard his case and he won and he got on the ballot and how he lost at the ballot, but he got on the ballot.

44:27

Which one did the, the, the Democrat. That, okay. And I can't remember what his name is now. Um, which is, oh, he wasn't running against you.

44:36

He's running for something else. He was running for a judgeship. Judgeship. Okay. And the Republicans held the seat and they didn't want to lose the seat.

44:42

Right. And so if they were to approve my ballots, they had to approve his, which meant their guy had a competitor.

44:50

Right. And up until that point, their guy didn't have a competitor. So that's why he didn't want to approve yours to them. Oh, wow. Don't you love politics?

44:56

So it ended up, um, I was devastated. I don't think I've ever been depressed in my life except for at that point.

45:03

Yeah. I was so angry and, and, uh, frustrated. So you didn't even get on the ballot then you didn't even get out of the primary.

45:09

I didn't even get it. Wasn't able to get on the ballot. Okay. And ultimately it was my fault. January happened because of me.

45:15

Right. But then the board of election did all these steps and I went out and I put in work, you know, all that work.

45:22

Um, and so even, even Laura was like, it talks to somebody about this, right?

45:28

No, I'll be all right. I'm just going to punch a few kittens or something. I'll, I'll be all right. That's a joke. Anyone, anyone listening?

45:35

He doesn't punch, punch. They're too low to the ground. Okay. Yeah. You know, only mids, medium sized dogs.

45:43

The dead men walking podcast is sponsored by Greg Moore at informed solutions realty with over 50 ,000 residential commercial and property valuation transactions completed informed solutions.

45:54

Realty is your premier real estate brokerage in Michigan, whether you're buying or selling a home or business.

45:59

Greg Moore at informed solutions. Realty can help you. And right now all dead men walking listeners will receive a complimentary property valuation report, which is a hundred dollar value visit www .gregmoore

46:12

.realtor or call seven three four seven three one Greg for more information on how much your property is worth and how you can get it sold fast.

46:20

That's www .gregmoore .realtor or call seven three four seven three one.

46:26

Greg dead men walking is also sponsored by Meriwether farm as followers of Christ, we are called to feed the poor, show compassion and mercy and make disciples of him.

46:36

And that's exactly what Meriwether farm does through farm and food ministries. Meriwether farm is dedicated to serving the underprivileged and those in need in their community, showing the love of Christ and making

46:47

Christ known. Meriwether farm is a nonprofit charity that fulfills its kingdom mission by partnering with listeners like you for more information on how you can get involved or donate visit www .mwfarmministries

47:01

.org. That's www .mwfarmministries .org.

47:07

We are also brought to you by threads, baby boutique hand sewn and made right here in the USA threads, baby boutique

47:14

Etsy shop is a must visit with unique clothes and accessories for infants, toddlers, and young children.

47:20

You're sure to find the perfect ensemble at the threads, baby boutique. Children are a blessing from the Lord. Why not bless them with this perfect gift and see what thousands of satisfied customers are talking about.

47:31

Visit www .etsy .com and search threads, baby boutique, or connect with them on Facebook at threads, baby boutique.

47:39

And now back to dead men walking. So that's 2010.

47:46

Right. And then, uh, and you, and that was for city council, right? Yeah. Toledo city council. And that runs every two or four years.

47:52

Uh, that's every four years. Every four. So then what did you do? Did you reassess and say, take a shot at it in 2014?

47:58

Yeah. So I talked to some of the business owners who had backed me and, um, because the, the, the two options

48:04

I ended up leaving was a guy who was still there who actually ended up winning reelection. Okay. Um, and a union backed guy and the business owners didn't really believe him, uh, on a personal level.

48:14

Okay. Uh, and so the idea of me running again, four years seemed plausible to them.

48:22

Doable. Yeah. Um, so that became the goal, you know, four years, I'm going to learn more.

48:28

Uh, I actually decided at that time to go back to school. Okay. Uh, to, cause I, I did Bible school.

48:33

I decided to go back to school for a political science degree. Uh, and that would hold me over during that time. And then when the time came,

48:39

I'd run again, uh, with a few more credentials under my belt was my thought process. Well, come to find out this whole thing is a

48:45

God thing because during that time, uh, our neighborhood changed drastically.

48:51

Okay. It went from almost every home being owned by the people living there to all of them are in foreclosure, uh, and they're being bought up for pennies on the dollar by rentals.

49:02

Um, and, and it literally went from a good family home neighborhood, excuse me, to just chaos every day.

49:11

Um, guy next to me squatting in a, in a abandoned duplex with prostitutes and drugs going out there.

49:18

And I'm making phone calls to the city. Like you guys got to do something with this. Uh, and then the lady next to me, she, something was mentally wrong.

49:25

She's threatening to kidnap our kids. Uh, Carlos and Becca live across the street from us threatening to kidnap their kids.

49:33

Um, and it got to where there was only four homeowners. And we all were in the middle of the, this two block road is, and we were just surrounded by chaos.

49:42

Um, so I finally, Laura and I were like, we got to move, we can't raise our kids here. We have four at that time.

49:48

And, uh, we ended up moving out to Woodville after that, but had I won that seat, all that was going to happen.

49:55

No matter what, I couldn't control that. Yeah. I now have an obligation because I'm serving these people that I have to stay here and it literally happened within 12 months, 12 to maybe 16.

50:06

When all of that just changed. It was like, right. And so I was like, maybe this whole thing is a God thing because I would have to force my kids to stay here.

50:14

Yeah. And we were burglarized three times. I mean, it was, it was crazy. Um, but then we, we ended up moving out to Woodville.

50:22

Um, I helped, uh, with, with Michael Collins campaign a little bit for mayor.

50:28

Um, had a couple of people try to convince me to run against Randy Gardner.

50:34

Who is he? Uh, he's, he's the, he's the, uh, what do we call his position in Ohio?

50:41

But he's like, put that mic up a little closer to you. He's like the secretary of education for the, for the state of Ohio, but he actually has a, it's like a different title, but that's his position.

50:49

Okay. Um, but he was a lifelong state Senator. And before that, a state, uh, and, and he's unbeatable.

50:59

Yeah. I mean, and I, and I, and these were good Christian people, uh, who would call me and, and he wasn't as supportive of the heartbeat bill as they thought he should be, uh, even though he was, and is a pro -lifer, um, his, his thought process was this, this bill will never win in a courtroom.

51:18

And so why am I going to put all this effort to get it passed just to have a judge throw it out? Right. Um, and, and that, that's a logical position to make, but anyway, these people are calling me because I ran for city council in Toledo.

51:30

Therefore I'm qualified to run against Randy Gardner, right. Abortion bill.

51:35

And I'm like, you guys are nuts, man. That guy will eat me alive before I even get off the board of elections with the petitions, you know?

51:44

Um, but so I'm sitting in, in, in, uh, Woodville, uh, on my two little acres, uh, nothing around us and I'm like,

51:52

I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. Uh, I still feel like I'm called to politics, but I have no idea.

51:58

Um, and then shortly after that, we moved into Pemberville and I was like, Oh, I'm gonna run for city council in Pemberville.

52:05

Okay. Um, and so I've been on council now. This is the beginning of the third year. Um, and I love it.

52:11

And, and I've learned so much. 2016. Yeah. When you ran for the presidential election.

52:17

Okay. Yeah. So, so the same, same time I was running then. Right. Cause I think we talked about it a little bit briefly.

52:23

Over time. Just how you down there. Yeah. So, um, how do you like it? Oh my gosh.

52:28

It's it's so it has its moments as, as everything does, but it's a blast.

52:34

Yeah, it is. I love, uh, I love having good debates. Um, especially when

52:40

I'm wrong because then it, it changes me and forces me to, to recognize that I'm, I'm holding something, uh, and defending something that I shouldn't be.

52:50

Um, but you really don't have that outside of, for, for me anyways, outside of other people who are politically minded because you end up, so I'm on Facebook all the time.

53:02

I debate people all the time on Facebook. Um, but they're dogmatic and it doesn't matter what you give them or what facts you have.

53:11

They're not budging, you know? Uh, but you sit down with somebody who is politically minded and actually is, has thought these things through.

53:20

They can not only be dogmatic, but they're also flexible. And they're like, Oh yeah, you know what?

53:25

That actually does make sense. And I shouldn't be as much this as I am and backs off a little bit.

53:33

And so I've really enjoyed that aspect of it. Yeah. Uh, especially with the ladies in the office because they actually know everything that you think, you know, right.

53:42

Right. Uh, so I, um, I, so I wrote this article actually for, uh,

53:48

Oh my gosh. Who is the, who's Jeremiah scribe? Oh, I don't know. I want to say it's not

53:54

Barack Baroque. Okay. It's called the broke papers. And I don't know if you know Todd Hostetler or not. I don't.

53:59

Um, but he, he edited it. He used to be the station manager for SFM for years. Okay. Um, I love

54:06

Todd. He's, he's one of my best friends. Um, so anyways, he, he decided to make this, um, journal.

54:12

And this is his first year doing it. So he's like, DJ, will you write a, an article on politics? And so I share this story in that article of me thinking

54:21

I know everything and coming to find out that I don't, and I'm operating in my own ignorance, but, um, it was the, like one of the first council meetings and this money needs to be moved from this account to that account to make sure that there's enough money to pay all the employees for the rest of the year.

54:40

Um, well, in order to pass this, we have to do an emergency measure and I'm adamant.

54:46

I'm not passing any emerge. I'm not voting to pass an emergency measure that isn't an emergency.

54:52

Right. And so, but I'm in favor of moving the money, but I'm not in favor of the emergency.

54:59

Uh, and so we have to have three readings. I would assume you guys are the same, uh, in order to be able to, to, to, to move this money.

55:07

Sure. And so we're missing, we don't have a, uh, we were one person above the, uh, the quorum.

55:15

Uh, so we need yeses across the board. Yeah. We're to pass. Uh, so they start going for the emergency and it gets to me.

55:23

I'm the last person. I'm like, no. And I, the entire room just becomes quiet and I look up and everyone is staring at me.

55:33

I'm like, what's, what's going on? They're like, you voted. No. I'm like, yeah, I'm not,

55:38

I'm not in favor of the emergency, uh, measures. If we don't do this, people won't get a paycheck.

55:47

Right. Yes. This is an emergency. Right. Oh no.

55:54

There's definitely a, there's definitely a learning curve. Um, it's, it's really crazy when you have a really fine tuned, uh, staff.

56:03

Like, uh, at the County of Monroe as a County commissioner, we have a CFO that's, uh,

56:08

I mean, just top notch. Some counties don't even hire CFOs. They have the commissioners do it. Uh, which

56:14

I just look at him and go, are you guys nuts? You know, he said over $60 million budget and you're going to sit there.

56:19

No, none of us have CPA degrees or anything like that. And he, he, he allows things to run so smoothly that sometimes you almost start second guessing it's going too smoothly.

56:31

You go, well, there's gotta be something. Well, no, there's something to be said for a finely oiled machine, you know?

56:36

And it was funny because I had the, our chairman, our current chairman, when I won in 16, after the inauguration or the swearing in, whatever you want to call it, he comes over to me and goes, you know,

56:48

I had like five people come up and tell me like, you're going to be the one I got to watch out for on this board. Cause you're just, you know, you're bullheaded and passionate and whatever.

56:56

And I said, no, I'm, I think I'm reasonable. And so I actually just sat back for about the first year and just took it in, which

57:04

I was familiar with a lot of it. I'd worked at the state level and you know, even on national campaigns and stuff. And I mean, geez, my junior year of high school,

57:12

I, I wrote my thesis on, you know, the, the buying of Congress and how, how sideways and backwards and how lobbyists get their way and stuff.

57:21

So I'd always been interested in those things. Um, but it, it, there was a lot to just say, there's a couple of times where I wanted to say something and then just by sitting back and, you know, asking a few questions and letting a few meetings go by, go,

57:34

Oh, okay. I could have really put my foot in my mouth or, you know, uh, said something out of turn there.

57:40

Not to say I don't say things out of turn now, but, uh, there is like a little bit of a learning curve with that.

57:46

And it, and it makes it even harder when it looks easier than what it is because you do have a staff that just kind of keeps things moving.

57:54

It's, it's really, it's really easy for me to forget on our consent agenda. I'm approving, you know, 18 to $22 million every two weeks to, so people have paychecks to go home to.

58:05

And it's on consent agenda, meaning it's just something that we don't even, it's just yay or nay, because it comes up every, you know, uh, but you can forget really quickly that you were elected and you were there for, you know, put there for a reason to keep things moving forward.

58:21

And that is a funny story. No, I don't agree in the emergency. We're not going to get paid. Okay. Maybe it's an emergency, but I understand that.

58:29

I understand the concept because then what happens is, um, and not to get too far into the weeds here, but when you get career politicians or maybe people without principle or, or using it for a certain reason where they're, they get very good at manipulating those procedures and then doing things that either benefit them or benefit the few and can take advantage of, you know, newer elected officials who might not know the system as well and can get things either pushed through or worked a certain way.

58:57

So there is something to be said of always being kind of discerning as well to when you're voting, don't take it lightly, just not a yes, because everyone else is saying yes or no, because everyone else is saying no, but also, um, you know, being discerning, but also, uh, you know, being, being able to obviously learn,

59:14

I, I had to, you know, humble myself a little bit and go, you know, county level stuff is not the same as township level stuff, which isn't the same as state or federal level stuff.

59:23

It's all different procedures are kind of the same, but everything is a little, you know, you have a blueprint that kind of matches across the board, but it's all different.

59:33

Everything's different. So how are you enjoying, uh, being a public servant or elected? If I like elected official,

59:39

I really like public servant. I don't like politician. Everyone goes, how do you like being a politician? I'm not a politician. Uh, and that's evident because, you know,

59:48

I don't think I would, I don't think I'd ever run for high or I could run for higher office just because I'm probably too blunt and too honest and too principled.

59:56

And I'm not saying that as, as bragging, I'm saying that as that's just my personality and right is right and wrong is wrong.

01:00:03

And I mean, I've told probably 500 people not to vote for me to their face at the door. They've just said, well, what are you all about?

01:00:10

And I'll tell them why a lot of people say, are you Republican or Democrat? And I just say, well, let me tell you what I believe in. And then I'll tell you after that,

01:00:16

I'm not going to lead with that. And then, you know, I've had some people just say, well, I believe in this. I believe in that.

01:00:21

And I go, awesome. Don't vote for me. You do not want me representing you because we are so far apart on these issues that I'm going to be true to what

01:00:30

I'm telling you now. And I had one guy actually go, well, geez, that's so honest. Maybe I will vote for you.

01:00:35

And I was actually just going to say that's a great strategy. No, but it wasn't the strategy. I really do believe we live in a representative

01:00:41

Republic. I mean, what I say is what I'm going to do. I'm representing you at whatever level. So if you don't agree with me, don't vote for me.

01:00:48

Right. And I a hundred percent agree with you on that statement, you know? Um, and sometimes like I said, that bluntness and honesty can work to your advantage, but there's other times where I, you know,

01:00:58

I don't, I don't play the game either, you know, and politics unfortunately can become a game and it's, and it's also part of my worldview and, and being a believer as well.

01:01:09

Like, I don't want to get caught up into that. Right. Um, the Bible is very clear. I mean, you read through Proverbs, which is one of my favorite books.

01:01:16

It's just consistently talking about integrity and honesty and your yes being your yes, and your no being your no.

01:01:23

And, and all these things that, you know, I'm sure you can, you, you can agree with when you're in politics, kind of take a back seat.

01:01:31

Um, the public persona of an elected official is a lot of times different than how they act, you know, uh, behind closed doors or, or around donors or around, uh, supporters or even people from their same political party, which is very bothersome to me, the hypocrisy of that.

01:01:48

I met with a state rep, uh, cause I would like to run for state office at some point in time. Sure. So I meet with this gentleman, uh, very gracious, uh, knows what he's doing, knows what he's talking about.

01:01:59

Uh, and he goes, how much, how much money are you donating to other political officials?

01:02:04

I said, well, really none. I really don't, don't donate to other. He goes, well, how can you expect them to donate to you when you decide to run?

01:02:15

I said, that's a good point, but I know that they're all jerks, which isn't true.

01:02:22

You know, there, there are some really great, great people who are, who are public servants, but then there are some real jerks, but you don't know it because they're a politician.

01:02:31

Yeah. And when they're out in front of everybody, they're your best friend and they're kissing your baby and all that stuff.

01:02:36

But then when you're actually working with them, like, I don't even know if I want to vote for you, even though I agree with you because of that personality.

01:02:45

No, absolutely. Or the work ethic was a big one for me. Uh, I just know a lot of elected officials that they look like they're doing work, but they're not actually doing any work or very little, which is, which is tough for me because I grew up in a, you know, family owned business, buy your own car, buy your own insurance.

01:03:03

I mean, I was, I didn't even think I got paid in the family business until I was 15 or 16 and I was unloading 53 foot trailers when

01:03:10

I was 12, you know, doing trade shows and all this other stuff. So work ethic was kind of built into me and I'm the same way in, you know, uh, in, in the business

01:03:20

I own as well as politics. And I see so many people just taking it for either a title, a benefit, or, you know, the, the position and that bugs me, that annoys me to no end.

01:03:37

I go, look at you are here to serve the public. Like, especially if you can say, if you call yourself a Christian and you are not, we're called to serve, heck even our enemies, let alone the people who vote for you and put their vote of confidence in you and to, you know, you serve at their pleasure.

01:03:54

Right. And, uh, so that kind of thing too, you know, when you have those discussions with your, you know, speaker of the house and your, your elected representatives at the state level, or heck even, you know, my congressmen who, you know, we have each other's personal numbers and I call them, heck,

01:04:10

I got a, I got an earful from them one time. Cause I just called them up and said, look at, you said you were going to vote this way on this particular bill.

01:04:15

You're not doing your job. You're a, you were a Baptist minister. You say that you're a Christian, either you're stupid or you're a liar.

01:04:22

It's one of the two. You're in one of those two camps. Either you're not smart enough to understand what you're doing in Congress and you're ignorant or you're lying to my face and to your constituents.

01:04:31

Either one is not acceptable with me. And I was a little harsh looking back on it. And, you know, he, he, he gave me an earful too.

01:04:38

He did actually call back and apologize. And we, you know, we made up, but I was just so adamant that look at, you're either going to represent yourself correctly and have the principles that you said you were going to have, or you're useless to me,

01:04:50

I'll go somewhere else. I mean, I know you're my representative, but you know, I, I speak with a lot of congressmen and senators at the federal level that don't represent me.

01:05:01

And we've worked on bills together that have actually been passed. You know, even some, some bills that help with the whole hemp thing.

01:05:09

That's, you know, which is, you know, industrial hemp nothing psychotropic or anything like that.

01:05:14

But yeah, I don't know. That's the hypocrisy or the lack of a work ethic really get under my skin.

01:05:22

If you're going to call yourself a public servant, because at the end of the day, we have a system set up to where you serve at their pleasure.

01:05:29

And if you're going to accept public money, it's their money, you're accepting taxpayer money and you represent them,

01:05:35

I mean, it's a sacred duty and we've really, even at the local level, all of it, you know, and the local levels is the, where you see the rudder turn the quickest.

01:05:43

I feel. You know, you and I, we can put policies into place that we almost see immediate effect.

01:05:49

You get up to state and federal level, they're arguing about stuff and it doesn't take effect for seven, eight, 10 years, two presidents later.

01:05:57

Yeah. 50 years is a fix that 50 years to fix it. So, yeah, that's a, um, that's, that's a, that's a fun one.

01:06:05

So you went from pastor, which it's funny because I know quite a few elected officials that were either ministers or pastors and are now elected officials.

01:06:13

And I just went. It at first, when I first got involved in politics, I was like, that doesn't make any sense to me.

01:06:19

The longer I stayed in, I went, Oh no, it does. Just being in front of people, uh, trying to, you know, caring about people.

01:06:27

And there's some good ones too. I'm not going to sit here and dog on all elected officials. I know some real good ones. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, the, the, the reputation of a politician exists for a reason.

01:06:37

That's true. So, um, there, there have been those, uh, bad apples that's, you know, spoiled the whole thing.

01:06:43

But, um, back to your, your, your work ethic and, um, and, uh, and hypocrisy.

01:06:49

Hypocrisy is, is, uh, is just a personal trait. You know, you're either a liar or you're not, you know, and, and, and sometimes.

01:06:57

Well, probably quite often, that's not going to change. Yeah. You're going to be a liar forever.

01:07:02

Oh, that's true. Um, apart from a radical, uh, change, you know, because of the blood of Christ, but then there's that work ethic issue and that's actually a slippery slope.

01:07:15

Going back to your, uh, well -oiled machine when, when things are working really smooth and your job is to oversee everything, working really smooth.

01:07:23

Many times they become lazy in their work ethic because well, I haven't had to fix anything for quite a while.

01:07:29

Sure. What am I even doing here? Yeah. And you don't even, you don't think that way. It just kind of happens to them.

01:07:36

Um, you know, I found myself, we had a, we had a development going on, uh, with the Pember Grove is what it's called.

01:07:43

And it's what 42 houses or something going in a subdivision. And, uh, the, the zoning board is pretty much taking care of everything.

01:07:53

And the only thing council does is approve the final plot. And that's, that's my only role in this whole situation, you know?

01:07:59

And I was, I started having people asking me questions and I'm like, I, I have no idea.

01:08:04

Right. Well, you should, you know, you represent me. Dang it. You're right. I should have an answer for those questions.

01:08:12

And so, but, but I recognize that because this was moving along, even though I only have one position at the very end,

01:08:20

I am responsible for all of this. I better start figuring this stuff out. Yeah. Uh, you know, so just to, just to throw that out there, that alone is, can separate what you just said, separate you from many, uh, seasoned, uh, politicians or elected officials, just the fact that you said,

01:08:38

I better go learn this and know this. I know plenty that just go, they'll either pass it off or go, not my problem or blame it on someone else.

01:08:45

I see this at the state level, all the, I tell you what, the, the locals love to blame the state guys.

01:08:50

The state guys say it's not mine. It's the federal and the federal go, we can't do anything. We, you know, we've got a president or another chamber from another party, right?

01:08:58

It's all politics. No one takes personal responsibility. But when I'm talking about work ethic to the last thing

01:09:04

I want to hear from one of my representatives as well, you know, that's just the way it is. That's, that's how it's either always been done or we don't have the votes.

01:09:11

Right. I hear that a lot. Um, and I go look at, uh, you work for me. You go out there and get the votes.

01:09:17

Do you believe in it? Then go whip votes. Right. Like stick. No one wants to stick their neck out. Right. Well, that's a great at privately.

01:09:23

I agree with you. Yep. I'm a, I'm on board with it, but yeah, we don't have the votes. We'd be like 10, 12 votes short.

01:09:29

Cool. Put together a program and start getting out there and meeting with people and get the 12 votes you need them. I mean, that's what

01:09:35

I'm talking about with work ethic. And unfortunately, I don't know. I personally maybe know two or three, uh, out of the 300 politicians that I'm friends with that I could say would do something like that.

01:09:47

And it's unfortunate because that's how we kind of get where we're at, at just about every level of government right now, except local, which

01:09:54

I local is still to me, I can get away, you know, it's not very partisan on my board.

01:09:59

I can't speak for every, uh, uh, you know, elected position locally, but you're so close to the people that, let me tell you what, if you guys are bickering over, you know, dumb little political things, it's going to get ugly real quick because there's people in your office.

01:10:13

They know your cell phone. They know where you live. They drive by your house and state and federal level. Guess what?

01:10:19

They come back to the district, you know, four or five times a year, hold a little town hall and make sure they're only asked questions that they know what they're going to answer.

01:10:26

So they can get away with a little bit more, but me and you, let me tell you something, you do something crazy or super partisan or something that doesn't make sense.

01:10:32

There'll be people calling you and, you know, coming down to your office the next day. That guy's almost a, almost like a superhero.

01:10:39

You know, Bob lettuce at my meeting, which I love Bob Lata, but Bob lettuce at my meeting, this is going to be awesome.

01:10:45

And, but then it was like, Oh, the local mayor, I don't like you, you did such and such. And why didn't you do this?

01:10:50

And so, yeah, there's, there's definitely that I'm, I'm blessed with, uh, the way our council is, we're only 1300 citizens.

01:10:57

Okay. And so you do something that nobody likes. Well, everyone knows it's the next hour, not the next day.

01:11:03

And they know exactly where you live, when you come home from work, where your share is played basketball. And I mean, they know everything.

01:11:09

Um, but, but we have a really good, good crew, but one of the reasons why it's like I moved into Pemberville and immediately ran for office there because I went to the council meetings and it was completely dysfunction.

01:11:21

One guy didn't like the other guy. And, and it was evident across the board.

01:11:26

Yeah. And I mean, the people's faces were just frustrated all the time. The people who were in the audience were like, Oh my God, why can't we get anything done?

01:11:33

Um, and so that's why I ran was because of that happening. But now we have almost a completely new board.

01:11:40

Um, we only have two that were still from that, that, that committee. And what's funny is during that time, um, one of those two,

01:11:47

I kind of lumped in with, with the people who are causing problems. Okay. And then once that situation changed, uh, one, because I beat somebody for that position and then health reasons removed the other guy.

01:12:00

Yeah. Um, once that changed, watch, I'm going to get, I'm going to end up getting in trouble. Somebody, you know, somebody in Pemberville, they're going to watch this.

01:12:07

And then all of a sudden, like an angel was talking about you guys. I'm going to, I'm going to hear about names and places have been changed to protect the innocent.

01:12:13

Go ahead. Just don't use any names. But, but, but since that time, this other individual is like a shining star.

01:12:21

Sure. Rocking it. I'm like, dude, I actually, uh, apologized to him at the end of one of the meetings.

01:12:26

I was like, listen, I want you to know that I thought this way about you. And now I think, yeah, I think this way about you.

01:12:32

Well, I'll tell you what though. Uh, you know, being in a room full of politicians, it's like being in a classroom though, too. You can remove the one or two bad seeds and everyone else straightens up too.

01:12:40

It's really weird. It's a, it can become like a, either a mob or herd mentality. You got one, two Trump, one or two troublemakers are doing something sideways, get them out of the room or get them replaced or get them off of a board or a council or whatever.

01:12:52

And the whole, you know, the whole, the whole attitude of a board can change. And it really comes down to leadership too, which is something

01:12:59

I really strive for. Try to have some type of, um, mentality of leadership, even if you're not in an official leadership position at a mentor, teach me that just walk into a room and not in a, not like I'm taking control way, but have leaders, leadership men mentality.

01:13:15

What are we trying to accomplish? Where are we going? What's best for whoever we're serving? Those kinds of questions always in the back of your head, no matter what you're doing.

01:13:23

And, uh, if you do, you kind of, you kind of get away from the backbiting and gossip and political game.

01:13:29

You can definitely be a leader without having to sit in that chair. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. So yeah, that's, that's kind of cool that we got to talk about politics a little bit.

01:13:38

Did you have anything to add there? Rocket? I didn't know if you were like falling asleep because we're over here talking about boring old politics, uh, in local offices.

01:13:47

If not, I want to play a game with you guys. You guys want to play a game? Dude, I'm really, I'm like, you said 1990s, like, man,

01:13:53

I don't. How old are you guys? What's your, what's your age? You mind? Oh, the nineties was my high school. You're 42 and you're,

01:14:00

I will be 40 this year. Okay. And I'm 38, be 39 this summer. So we're all within two, three, four years of each other.

01:14:07

So what I did is I selected, um, I selected seven songs here.

01:14:13

Okay. Now these are all Christian songs that came out in the nineties that were very popular.

01:14:21

Okay. They were either on a chart or very well known within the Christian community. I'm going to give you 10 to 15 seconds of the song.

01:14:29

Okay. And what I need from you guys is I need the name of the song first. That's up worth a point.

01:14:35

If you then also give me the artist, if you get the name of the song, right? That's another point. So up to two points up to grab for each round.

01:14:42

Okay. And I don't have buzzers. This is a low budget show here. So you just got to say, got it. If you know what, just say, got it.

01:14:48

And I need the name of the song first. And then for a bonus point, if you can tell me the artist as well. Okay.

01:14:53

And if you don't know it, that's fine too. Okay. Here we go. It's going to kill me at this. What's that? Rocky. Let's see if Rocky.

01:14:59

This is the buying least area. This is what kind of music did you guys listen to growing up in church?

01:15:06

Let me ask you that first, before we start, did you listen? Were you into any type of groups or anything like that?

01:15:12

So, so that's a, that's a hard question to answer. Cause I grew up listening to Tupac and Chelsea.

01:15:21

Sure. When my mom was around, I listened to Carmen, uh, Ray Bolts. Okay. Um, Ray Bolts, was it, was it

01:15:28

Maranatha? Was that like the Hill song of that? Yeah, Maranatha. Yeah. Okay. Well, here we go.

01:15:34

Just say, got it. If you know the name of the song or the name of the song and then the artist.

01:15:40

Ready? Here we go. Oh, got it. Who's in the house.

01:15:48

Carmen. There we go. He got the first one. Two points. It's so funny when you said

01:15:54

Carmen, who's in the house. Carmen. Okay. Ready? He loves them. Some car. I do love Carmen. He, he was the man back in the day, wasn't he?

01:16:02

That, uh, that song is on, uh, the stand album, I think.

01:16:07

Yeah. Cause it's in, it's in the minivan. The kids love who's in the house.

01:16:13

JC, they scream at the top of their lungs. Okay. Ready? Round two. It's two to zero DJs in the lead.

01:16:19

Here we go for number two. Ready? This one's tough.

01:16:30

This one is a little harder. It sounds like every nineties.

01:16:38

Got it. Friends are friends forever. Oh, nope. Oh, you want to take a guess?

01:16:44

No, I don't know. That is placed in this world by Michael W. Smith. So you were close. You were in the zone.

01:16:51

Okay. I think this one's going to be a little easier. Okay. So it's still two to zero DJs in the lead. Let's go with round three.

01:16:57

Tell me if you guys can get this one. Here we go. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Third day consuming fire.

01:17:06

Boom. Listen, I, so I told you my, my, uh, my brother came back from California playing the guitar, right?

01:17:16

Well, he's doing, you know, he's doing R and B stuff. So I'm, I'm immediately back into that. So the situation, but I'm all of a sudden interested in the guitar.

01:17:23

And, um, so my mom buys these tickets for third day concert down in Akron, maybe.

01:17:29

Yeah. And I had never heard third day before. Have no idea who they are. Uh, but we go to this concert and, uh,

01:17:34

I'm all front. There's, there's some other young adults that I know that were going, which is the only reason why I was cool with going.

01:17:39

Cause I have friends going and this band comes out, have no idea what their name is, but they were, in my opinion,

01:17:47

I mean, they're getting paid to do it. So I should probably shut up, but they were horrific. Okay. And, but people are moshing and I don't, you know,

01:17:56

I don't like that stuff. It's that's Rocky's lane. But, um, I'm like, dude, this is, this is whack.

01:18:02

I don't want to, who was it? I have no idea. I don't remember. Oh, I don't remember for now. I wish I did. And they opened for their day for third day.

01:18:10

Oh, wow. And they could biggest third day fan. Oh, I am now because of this moment, because, because of this moment right here.

01:18:17

There's so bad. It is like, it is like pandemonium chaos is happening inside of,

01:18:23

I think it's Akron is where we were at. Yeah. Um, and then the lights go down and Mac Powell comes out and he's with his, just his guitar and he starts singing.

01:18:35

Um, your level Lord. Yeah. Your love. Oh Lord.

01:18:41

Yeah. Read just to the, and it was like a change in the atmosphere that quick went from chaos to all of these people worshiping.

01:18:49

Yeah. And I'm like, no, he's good, man. What in the world is happening? And so I went home.

01:18:55

I bought that offering CD at that concert, went home and was like, I'm going to learn how to play every song that's on this album.

01:19:03

And that's, that's really the reason why I play the guitar is because of Fred, but I learned by playing those songs.

01:19:09

And then when I became like a part -time worship leader, when, you know, filling in for Laura or whatnot, most of my songs were third day worship songs on that album because that's what

01:19:18

I could play off the guitar. I think I saw them in Toledo when I was 15, 16, right in there.

01:19:24

And I distinctly remember him saying during like one of their kind of intermission, kind of, you know, bringing it down, he goes,

01:19:32

Hey, look at compassion internationals here. And if you brought money to our show to buy a shirt or an album, go donate it to them instead of buying some of our merch.

01:19:41

And I just went, I've never up to that point, not even a Christian band that I heard them say, don't buy our stuff, right.

01:19:47

Go donate money to compassion. I went, I like these guys. And I was kind of a fan ever since then, just because I don't think

01:19:54

I've ever heard that sense in any, uh, Christian music concert where he says, don't buy any.

01:20:00

Cause I mean, they make, that's where you, you made your money too. Even back then is off merch. Don't buy our stuff.

01:20:06

Go donate it. Okay. If you ever, uh, if you ever become big enough, because I believe it's going to where you get a chance to meet

01:20:13

Mac pow. Yeah. Keep in the back of your mind. I want to meet Mac. I want that's your guy.

01:20:19

We always have like one or two people where we're like, yeah, I get it this close, this close.

01:20:24

He was, he was at the, at the Seagate center and, uh, Vonda K for free SFM. Yeah.

01:20:30

Um, I went up to her and she knew me at the time, but really didn't know me. But aren't you best friends with a programming director or something?

01:20:37

Tell him to hook you up. Laura became the SFM. She replaced Vonda. Oh, did Vonda step down?

01:20:42

And so, but I see Vonda Laura's there actually. And I'm like, Laura, those are some funny morning shows.

01:20:49

They were like, Laura, we, we have to get Vonda to give us backstage passes. Yeah. She's like,

01:20:54

I'm not asking Vonda for that. I'm like, listen, Vonda loves you. She doesn't know me. You have to go.

01:21:00

And we're, and we're, I don't even think we're dating yet. I think I was trying to try to get her to like me. Uh, so finally

01:21:05

I get a great way then is to ask her to ask her boss for things for she wasn't working there yet. She wasn't working there yet.

01:21:11

Vonda liked her because Laura's mom ran the pregnancy center. And so Laura, finally she gives in and she does the worst job asking to get backstage, you know, and clearly

01:21:23

Vonda knows she doesn't want to be asking the way she does. So Vonda's like, no, you guys can't come back here. Right. And so I'm like slightly offended with Laura.

01:21:30

And then I go over, Oh, Michael Tate had, um, open forum.

01:21:36

He was, he was a solo artist. Yeah. And, uh, and I'm actually in this like little Christian band at the time. And, uh, so another favorite of yours,

01:21:43

DC talk or DC. Okay. Um, actually

01:21:51

I didn't like DC dog until Jesus freak. Yeah. So I, we, we go over and we're having him sign our autograph and, and, uh, or given a, give, give us an autograph.

01:22:01

I don't like, dude, I really wanted to meet. Mac Powell. Yeah. And he's like, gives me backstage.

01:22:08

Who does Michael Tate? No way. Did you get to meet him? I run back to dry.

01:22:15

It had to be a full blown sprint, man. I'm on my way back there. I'm showing people. Have you ever seen a

01:22:20

Wayne's world where they're like showing the backstage? I'm like backstage, I'm going backstage. Uh, and we,

01:22:26

I get back there and Vonda's back there. I'm like, dude, you sold me out, you know? And she goes like,

01:22:31

I still made it. Uh, she goes, Hey, how'd you get past? As I tell her, she goes, third day, just left. I'm like,

01:22:36

Oh, no way. I was like, Matt, see that, hear that jet noise? Uh, that's them. They took off and they were gone by the time

01:22:43

I got back there. I was heartbroken. Well, if I ever do run into him, you're going to be the first one. He's going to call. I'll make sure.

01:22:49

All right. So let's, uh, we got, we got a couple more here. So it's, it's four to zero. So actually DJ, you're doing pretty well here.

01:22:55

You predicted you weren't gonna do well, but you want, this one's going to be a hard one. So here we go.

01:23:01

Ready? Very 90s sounding early nineties.

01:23:10

Yeah. Oh, you're right. 1992. No, 94. This is just the music.

01:23:19

I was all in the Christian music. Nothing so far with a nine minute intro.

01:23:38

No, no, you guys are in the right vein though.

01:23:44

There's basically three of them. There's Sandy, Patty, Amy grant. This was a goddess in control by Twyla Paris.

01:23:50

Do you remember Twyla Paris? Yeah. Okay. So those are my two hard ones that I gave you. The, uh, the

01:23:56

Michael W. Smith and the, uh, Twilight Paris, but you guys should be able, so someone should be able to get this next one. You ready?

01:24:02

Still four to zero. You can still make a comeback there. Rocky. Ready? Here we go. Come on.

01:24:16

I'm thinking of, remember that worship guitar game? These are the songs that were on it.

01:24:23

This doesn't do for you right here. No. Oh yeah.

01:24:30

Yeah. Name of the song. You know the name of the song or just the artists come on.

01:24:35

He's, he's working. I can see he's going through his library. No, no,

01:24:41

I do play. Can you play it? Is there any more of it? That's just all that I have. And I mean, you can go there again and hear the intro again.

01:24:48

Is it a one? Is it a three name band? Nope. Okay. All right.

01:24:54

I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that. No one has it. Take me to your leader. Newsboys. Yeah. No, man.

01:25:00

I thought you guys would get that one for sure. Okay. We got two more. Ready? You didn't, you know it.

01:25:09

You want me to play more? Oh, he knows the tune.

01:25:21

Yeah. He just heard the, what if I stumble on you? All right. There you go.

01:25:26

So that's six points. We'll just do the last one because these guys were on tooth and nail records.

01:25:33

And before we started, I think Rocky said he was into, weren't you into artists and tooth and nail? And this is an odd ball.

01:25:39

I thought for sure you guys would have a chance at these first six. I don't think you'll get seven. Do you know, can you, can you give us the year?

01:25:45

I don't know the year. It's probably, I would guess 96, 97.

01:25:51

Okay. Ready? Sorry, right. You're gonna have to get this one just for your dignity, Rocky. Cause there's no way you can win it.

01:25:56

Six to zero. He's only worth two points, but I'm going to need you to really, I'm gonna really need you to step up here and listen, ready?

01:26:03

Here we go. What's the name of the song?

01:26:15

I will tell you, you do have the artist, right? What's the name of the song? Can you get the name of the song?

01:26:21

It was on Motor City. It was. Oh man.

01:26:32

I loved them though. I, you want to, I'm going to give you two points anyway. That was carnival by insiders. Remember how they spelled it weird too.

01:26:39

It was like N S Y D E R Z. And they came through Toledo quite a bit. They did.

01:26:44

I saw him a couple of times. Remember we're like for two years in the nineties, it was just all ska. Yeah. I mean, secular and Christian.

01:26:51

Yeah. I like, I loved, I still listen to it. Yeah. I mean, you want to, what? We got to give it to DJ six to two.

01:26:58

He wins the second game of name that tune. 1990s

01:27:03

Christian contemporary music round. And we had quite a, uh, quite a span there. I took you from insiders to twilight

01:27:09

Paris to Michael W. Smith to Carmen. I made sure I covered all the bases. You guys have someone who's playing

01:27:15

Sunday. Rita Springer is doing worship for us. Linda. Oh wow. Rita Springer, man.

01:27:21

That is big. Yeah. That's awesome. Absolutely. No idea how Carlos pulled it off.

01:27:28

She's physically going to the church. Uh, no. Um, so we're, we're doing the live feed because of the

01:27:34

Corona and all that stuff from the row row, but so cool.

01:27:41

Sony's going to love that, man. My wife loved Rita Springer. Good. And I'm glad that I love Sonia, man.

01:27:47

Well, hi guys. We're the best thing that ever happened to Rocky. We're coming up on an hour and a half here.

01:27:52

Do you guys have anything else you want to talk about before we wrap it up? I appreciate you guys stopping by here.

01:27:57

Anything else on your mind? We covered, uh, testimony and politics and had a little fun playing a music game, but, uh, anything else?

01:28:06

What's your, uh, what's your timetable for you decided to run for state office? You know, I was thinking about it this, uh, term and Samantha and I just, we prayed about it and I had planned on it.

01:28:18

Um, I had like you, I had so many people approach me and just go look at. We love your passion. We love your, you know, your work ethic.

01:28:26

You should do it. So I just was in that mode of assuming I should do it. Um, but at the same time

01:28:31

I was kind of hampered because, uh, I had people that the day after they won their seat, they were already talking about running for something four years later.

01:28:43

And I found that so disingenuous. I went, you just won X, Y, or Z seat. And you're,

01:28:48

I mean, literally day after, Hey, just so you know, I'm going to be running for this in 2020 or 2018.

01:28:54

And I just couldn't put myself in that frame of mind. I said, no, I'm here to do this job now. But in the back of my mind,

01:29:00

I said, yeah, I would like to entertain it. And, uh, Samantha and I, uh, prayed about it and talked about it.

01:29:07

And, uh, it just went from something that I just assumed I was supposed to do to absolutely the

01:29:14

Lord, just saying it's not the time or place, uh, which was strange because I just thought, Oh, it's a natural progression, especially,

01:29:21

I mean, geez, at one time we had 67 out of our 105 state representatives were ex -county commissioners.

01:29:26

They refer to us as the minor leagues. It's kind of where you get your start. You understand procedure, you're working over county issues, which kind of mimics state issues a little bit.

01:29:36

I remember when baseball had minor league teams. They still do. What are you talking about? They're getting rid of some. Are they?

01:29:41

Oh, they're, are they really? I didn't know that. I don't want to pay them. Owners. They're, they're making majors.

01:29:48

Well, higher roster. If you actually look at it too, like even guys that have decent stadiums, like, you know, we're, we're, uh, really close to fifth, third field down here.

01:29:57

We've got a great stadium, good team. Uh, in the mud hens, most of those guys, I mean, if you look at their contracts and I've talked to a few of them, it's rough.

01:30:05

I mean, there may be as minor league professionals, five to $8 ,000 a month, maybe $10 ,000 a month, and that sounds like, okay, it's a little bit of money, but then they have to pay for their travel, pay for their food, pay for their uniforms.

01:30:17

It's all independent contractors. So it's not like big money contracts. You know, you go to a, you know, a mud hens game down here in Toledo.

01:30:25

It's a nice, you know, you can, you can have 10 ,000 people there. It's a nice stadium. Well -kept, you know, everyone looks at it and then it's like, these guys are basically, you know, uh, just grinding it out as minor league players, which was a real paradigm shift for me.

01:30:38

I just assume they were all making pretty decent money, you know, but to get back to your point, no, it just, it just wasn't the time.

01:30:45

I mean, there was some stuff that the Lord was doing in me too. Just, you know, just saying there's a refining process in you that has to happen before I allow you to do any of that.

01:30:55

So I don't know. I would think about it in the future. It's not, I'm not saying it's not a possibility to run for higher office, but I'm absolutely happy with the balance that I have between running a real estate brokerage, you know, county commissioner, homeschooling family.

01:31:10

That's young. I mean, I'm like you, when you said when I'm into something, I'm into it a hundred percent. Like it's, it can be rough on my family.

01:31:18

Like when I ran in 2016, everyone's like, you're nuts. You just moved down here a year ago. We don't know who you are. You're up against an incumbent who's lived here 35 years.

01:31:25

His wife's on the school board. He's owns a, you know, coffee shop. There's no way you can beat him.

01:31:30

You're, you know, Bedford is 60 % Republican, but your district's 55 % Dem. And I went, well, that's,

01:31:36

I just got to go meet every single person. I knocked 8 ,000 doors, sent out flyers, wrote letters. And, you know, one by the largest margin in 10 years.

01:31:46

And I'm not saying that to brag. I'm saying that there was, you know, put in the work and, you know, and I think good things can happen.

01:31:54

So that was one of those things too, where my wife was like, is this how it's going to be every time? Like, I'm not going to see you for an entire summer.

01:32:01

Cause it would just be like, you know, I'd play with the kids for an half hour and go, all right, two o 'clock. I'm gonna walk till two to nine o 'clock.

01:32:07

And then of course I get doing that with you. Yeah. You know? And then I'd get caught in the, I'd get on the street and go, man,

01:32:12

I got to go. It's nine o 'clock. And I go, but that next house could be the person that votes for me that, you know, and the next thing

01:32:18

I know, it's like 10 o 'clock at night and my wife's like, look at people, you know, I was about 40 pounds heavier. She's like, no, one's going to answer the door.

01:32:25

When some fat, chubby, sweaty bearded guy with a gun knocking on their door at 10 o 'clock at night, you know?

01:32:31

And I said, yeah, I better, uh, I better cool it down. So people have out of bed at 10 o 'clock at night.

01:32:36

Hey, will you vote for me? No, I won't vote for you. Exactly. Now you're just making a mad, you know, which was weird because like, if someone comes on my property,

01:32:44

I'm just kind of weird anyway, I got kids, you know, I'm probably kind of, you come knocking on my door and kind of, I was surprised how many people first opened their door and to actually talk to me.

01:32:53

Right. It was insane because I see someone at my front door. I don't know him. I'm either shooting him away or I don't even answer the door.

01:32:59

Like I don't know. I'm good. These people come out, talk. Hey, so what are you running for? What do you know? And I'm trying to keep two minutes a door at the max.

01:33:07

And I'm in 25 minutes cause I'm a talker. Anyway, these guys tell me his life story. There's people that I knocked their doors in 2016.

01:33:13

I still go back and visit them now, just cause I, you know, I don't even know if they voted for me or not, but I had a hour conversation with them and know their whole life story.

01:33:22

With finding yourself so busy and doing with politics and, and your, your theology or, or your doctrine.

01:33:31

Yeah. Do you, do you work on Sundays? Do I like during like church you're talking about or just whether like in politics, if you were going to go statewide,

01:33:42

I just thought that was a, no, I've had, I've had things. Isn't that like a, like, like a Sabbatarian, like not working at all.

01:33:49

Um, I try to, as much as I can to honor Sunday and make it a family day. There's been some times where, uh, you know, someone says,

01:33:57

I have to go look at this house or can you meet me here? And it's like two o 'clock on Sunday and I'll, I will go do it.

01:34:03

Um, I, we do try to take certain days throughout the week or certain times to actually rest and reflect and, and do those things, but I'm not strict like it has to be

01:34:12

Sunday, um, which I'd, I'd actually been thinking about that for the last few years because there is something real about the

01:34:21

Lord resting and then saying, and now you rest. Um, and you look at even the scientific data, uh, you look at like, uh, psychologists that do studies, you look at mental health professionals.

01:34:32

They say, oh no, there's really something to with, with the body rhythms and on all this thing to about this every so many hours, which it works out to about a week, which is really crazy that we have a, you know, a calendar based on seven days, like how did the

01:34:46

Lord know that we'd have 365 days, seven days rest out of the one day. But now what we've kind of come to see is like after 150 hours, it's good to have so many hours off, which is about a week, uh, or a little more.

01:34:58

So, I mean, I think, I think the Lord gives us commands and, uh, for, for reasons that sometimes we don't even understand, you know, he gave the commands to the, to the, his

01:35:10

Jewish people to circumcise on the eighth day. And everyone went, you're nuts. Why not the fifth? Why not the seventh?

01:35:15

Heck, why not? The third three and six were very special numbers to Jewish people. Lord tells them on the eighth day, right?

01:35:22

And for thousands of years, they just, okay. He said the eighth day, that's where we're going to do it. Well, the 1970s, we find out the blood in a human coagulates more than any other day in the rest of their life on the eighth day, right?

01:35:35

So you're the, how you bleed and things like that. So then you go, okay, well, was that just, was that luck?

01:35:42

Well, no, the Lord exactly knows, you know, the creation that he's made. And that's why he commanded it on that day.

01:35:48

I, I have a saying that I always go back to. I just love it when science catches up to the Bible, you know, when you read

01:35:55

Job and it says, did I put the rivers in the deeps of the ocean? And Job says, no,

01:36:00

I don't even know what you're talking about, but no. Yeah. You're right. God, you know, it's when God's like really hammering him in like chapter 38.

01:36:07

Like, were you there when I told the sun to hold itself back? Were you there when I told the mountains not to, you know, go and fall into the ocean?

01:36:13

Were you there when I put the rivers into the deep of the ocean and you would have atheists and secularists and all these people point to that and go, there's no freshwater rivers and oceans.

01:36:24

The Bible's alive. That's these guys were crazy, right? Well, you know, in 1984, we took that little deep sea scuba dive and whatever robot, and there's actually deep,

01:36:36

I mean, miles wide of freshwater river that runs on the bottom of the ocean and the saltwater and the freshwater keeps completely separate.

01:36:44

So you have an actual ecosystem of freshwater fish living inside of a freshwater river inside of an ocean.

01:36:51

And they have no idea how it got there. They don't know how it can sustain itself. Right. I mean, if you, if you talk to, you know, all these scientific people, they go, we don't get it.

01:37:02

I don't know. It's amazing that we even discovered it. And then you go, oh, but I've been reading about it my whole life and Job 38.

01:37:10

So once again, it's nice that science got to catch up to, to the Bible. And I think we're going to learn stuff about, you know, as we explore the universe, we're going to learn stuff about when the earth stood still and, you know, we can get into geocentricity and all that kind of stuff.

01:37:24

Uh, but that's a whole nother two hour conversation, but I think there's statements made in the Bible that we just haven't caught up to yet scientifically as we keep learning, because you have to realize we say supernatural, it's just natural to God, right?

01:37:38

I mean, when you say, oh, Jesus walked through a wall. Well, I don't, I don't think it was magic. I don't think it was supernatural to him.

01:37:46

He knows exactly how atoms and electrons and neutrons work. We're to the point now where we can take a little bit of an apple and quantum leap it and transport it six feet for two seconds.

01:37:55

Where are we going to be in a hundred years? So, I mean, it's just the fact that when you have an all knowing, all powerful, understanding

01:38:01

God who sits out of time and space and actually created this reality while walking through a wall is as simply as me talking to you.

01:38:08

And we, as of, you know, created creature and not all knowing and all powerful go, oh my gosh, it's a miracle.

01:38:15

Yeah, it is a miracle to us. It's very natural to God. Yeah, sure. I got off on a tangent there towards the end of the podcast.

01:38:23

No, I love it. Cause that reminds me of worship when it comes to corporate worship, because now we're starting to find out through science, like brain function does change.

01:38:32

You know, they're seeing it. Yeah. You know, that, that we're actually, people are, you're getting like a self confidence, you're getting like, people are going to be different during a worship time.

01:38:42

Then, you know, you might get the same feeling walking through the forest or something, but that time is special.

01:38:49

Or the fact that even, you know, when we really started first mapping the genome and getting into like DNA sequencing and things like that in the seventies and early eighties, we had this whole subset of DNA in our body and we didn't know what it did.

01:39:02

And it was just, we just called it junk DNA. We're just like, oh, it's just like all the leftover stuff. We just label.

01:39:07

We have a, you know, science has a really, uh, really slick way of just labeling things and then making it sound like they know what it is.

01:39:14

We're like, oh, it's a black hole. Oh, so it's an actual, no, no, it's just, we don't know what it is. So that whole space there that, uh, mathematically we can't explain, we just called a black hole.

01:39:23

They're everywhere. We don't know how they appear. We don't know where they're at really. We discover them randomly, but yeah, that's what it is.

01:39:28

A black hole. It's like, okay, so you don't know what it is either. But anyway, they're mapping it and they go, oh, junk DNA.

01:39:34

Right. And, uh, then you have Bible verses that says, uh, curses and, um, and disease are held to the fourth generation, right?

01:39:44

I can't remember where it's at. I want to, I think it's in Chronicles, but it's the Lord talking to the Israelites and saying, look at if you have something in your life or you have something, a sin, those curses can be held out for four generations.

01:39:56

Well, in the nineties or what was the late nineties, early 2000, we finally mapped the whole, the whole, uh, you know, genome.

01:40:02

They went, oh, we figured out that that junk DNA is actually a recessive gene that holds, um, disease, virus, hereditary, alcoholism, all these things.

01:40:11

And guess how long it holds it for until it completely goes out four generations. Now I'm not saying one is connected to the other, but boy,

01:40:20

I get a smile on my face when I see the Lord saying, you know, a curse can last four generations.

01:40:25

And then you have junk DNA in a fallen world that holds a virus or disease or a hereditary

01:40:30

DNA strand for four generations. So once again, always, it's always fun when

01:40:36

I read through these science journals and listen to these people speak. And I, you know, you listen to these podcasts with all these experts and you go, well, you'll catch up to the

01:40:45

Bible one day, you know, are you pursuing your doctorate?

01:40:50

Oh, heck no. I don't have any schooling. Oh, what's so ever said he was pursuing a doctorate. Well, are you kidding me?

01:40:57

I was just joking about this a few days ago. I got like a, like a semester and a half of community college. And I was like, ah, you guys aren't talking about what

01:41:04

I'm interested in. I'm out of here. I have a very short attention span, unfortunately, but, uh,

01:41:10

I love, I love the access to free information you have now. I have a really bad book obsession. My wife and I do, which makes it, you know, horrible when we move.

01:41:18

Got a full library upstairs and it's like, it's about 9 ,000 pounds of boxes. I have to move every time we decide to go somewhere else.

01:41:26

What are you currently reading? Uh, there's a book on a millennialism that I was looking into because my end time eschatology is just my weakest point when it comes to that kind of stuff.

01:41:37

And I really wanted to see the different, I, I didn't really truly understand cause I can get behind, like, understand what like preterists believe and like, okay, everything's already been accomplished in the temple at 72

01:41:48

AD was when, you know, the beast was Caesar and all that. Get that. Don't agree with that. Pre -trib get that.

01:41:54

Don't agree with it. Mid and post -trib. Okay. Maybe we can, you know, work on that, but then a millennialism kind of takes it to a different level where they say that thousand year reign is actually the same word where the

01:42:06

Lord is talking about like, um, yam, which is just a span of time. So they say the thousand year reign is actually right now after Christ died and rose again on the cross.

01:42:17

So that it ushered in the spirit, that covenant of the spirit, and we are in that thousand year reign and Christ is returning.

01:42:26

Uh, he does have a second coming, but the thousand year reign that revelation refers to is actually the thousand, the span of time, not necessarily a physical thousand years, but a span of time where Satan is being pushed back and being fought against by the kingdom being advanced right now in the

01:42:44

Holy spirit. So I don't really have a firm foot in any camp, but I'm reading that book right now and then reading a book by, um,

01:42:53

Jay Packer about the sovereignty of God and how it reflects on evangelism, which is kind of an argument

01:43:00

I get to, if you believe God is in control of everything and has predestined some, uh, onto, you know, election, why even evangelize?

01:43:10

That's what I get. I get that a lot. And Charles Spurgeon got that a lot too. And he said, look at if every person had a big red

01:43:16

E on their chest that said then I'd go up to those people and just preach to them, but they don't. So I follow the mandate of the gospel that says no matter where I go, no matter what

01:43:24

I do, I disciple and I preach the word of God. So those are the two, but I'm one of those guys too, which

01:43:30

I probably feel you guys are the same way where I got like five or six in rotation, you know, I'll get, I'll get halfway through a book.

01:43:37

I've been reading LSAT books and stuff nonstop. What is that? The, the law school entrance exam.

01:43:45

Oh, are you going to law school? We'll see how well I do on this test. Uh, but it's been canceled and pushed back and now it's scheduled for the, uh, 19th of May, I believe, or 18th, one of the two.

01:43:56

So what brought that on? I mean, that's a, that's a big, uh, well, my bike did what I decided that I'd like to do is actually become a professor and run for public office, gather all that, that experience, and then go become a professor, uh, my later parts of the year.

01:44:14

Uh, of my life, excuse me. Um, well, come to find, I gotta have a doctorate to do that.

01:44:19

Uh, and I'm like, well, okay. So I started searching for master's programs that would line up with my political science degree and it's like every school

01:44:29

I reached out to doesn't have a political science master's program in the world. This is like the basic, you know, uh, program everyone should have one.

01:44:38

And I literally called UT and talked with them, uh, three days after they decided to get rid of their program.

01:44:46

Uh, and so it's literally been like three years that I've been waiting and waiting and waiting, uh, and then

01:44:53

I ended up meeting the law school dean over at UT at a wedding, uh, we got talking and I started praying about it.

01:45:00

I'm like, that's, that's what I've been waiting for. Yeah. Uh, and so I'll get a doctorate of, of Jared Prudence and that should be good enough for me to go anywhere and be a professor.

01:45:11

Um, and I'll have that experience too, you know, I'll learn all that and go find a job in that realm and take that with me, but that's what

01:45:20

I want to do when it's all said and done is teach. So we can, we can start calling you doc then pretty soon.

01:45:26

That'd be awesome. Again, I still got to pass the stupid test. Yeah, it is the dumbest test.

01:45:35

It, it asks, like, you know, we complain about, uh, you know, uh, high school or, or excuse me, sixth grade math is like,

01:45:42

Billy has three gray crayons. Two of them are green. Five of them are blue. What's the color of the sky?

01:45:48

Yeah. That's what these are. That's kind of like, they're like this thick you're trying to go through.

01:45:53

Uh, it's, it's ridiculous. And the, and the, the dean said, work your butt off, prepare for that test.

01:46:00

Yeah. And then never worry about it again. Cause you're never going to deal with any of it. That's crazy. Isn't it? Why does this test exist?

01:46:05

You know? Yeah. Other than to get my money. I pay to take the test.

01:46:11

Well, that's cool. So what's, what's the, uh, what's, what's the timeline on that?

01:46:17

That's here in a couple of weeks. So it's coming up. Yeah. It was, it was scheduled for, uh, the 30th of March and then it got pushed to the 17th of April.

01:46:25

And then it got pushed to the, I think it's the 18th. So do you just, are you kind of like me? Then you like just things that like put you in a position to where you have to accomplish it because it's like, you know, going to a ministry school, pastor, running for office goal to win.

01:46:40

Uh, you get your LSATs like law school. I feel like you're just that type where you that's exactly oriented, put it in front of you and accomplish it.

01:46:48

Yeah. That's awesome. I'm kind of there a little bit too. How about you, Rocky? You look like you're about to sleep. No, no, you're good.

01:46:54

He definitely is like that. How long have you guys known each other since you started going to back to church in 2002, 2003.

01:47:01

Yeah. Okay. So you've known each other for a while. Rocky is, is a great friend. Uh, he's, he's a great guy.

01:47:06

We went, uh, we actually went back to, uh, Owens together. Um, he tried to kill me in an astronomy class.

01:47:14

He gave me a gobstopper. I threw it in my mouth straight into the windpipe. And we're, we're at the back of the class.

01:47:21

I can't breathe. And I'm like, I'm going to die. Oh my gosh. All the goofed in all those classes. We were like death by gobstopper.

01:47:27

Older than everybody. We were, we always had candy. And, uh, one of the, one of the funny things is, um, uh, we were also one of the only people left in the class after everybody's grant money came through.

01:47:40

Like half the class would just disappear. Cause they got their grant money. We come to class when they were like,

01:47:47

Oh, I guess you're just going to teach me today. I'm still sitting in the back row.

01:47:52

That's right. I ain't moving. Well, that's awesome guys. Hey, I really appreciate you guys stopping by, hanging out and talking with me.

01:47:59

Uh, it was very interesting. A lot of good stuff talked about here. And, uh, anytime you guys want to swing back by and talk, you're more than welcome to, to, uh, stop by.

01:48:09

Do you have anything where people can reach out to you or any organizations you're involved in? Anything you want to, uh, push out there to the people listening?

01:48:17

Man, if I was smarter, I would have done that. Yeah. I should have created like an Instagram account just so I can say

01:48:22

I have one, which I think I got one somewhere and I haven't seen it forever. You can find me on Facebook at Daniel Angel, the one from Pembrokeville, Ohio.

01:48:30

And in parentheses, it says Laura's husband, right? That's how you find me. Let me share with you this,

01:48:38

I'm still offended over this story. So, um, there, there's a, there's a music festival that happens every year for high school kids and, uh, and, and anything that has art, they compete in it and they're really kind of competing against themselves.

01:48:51

They get a score. Well, I've been a judge well, since 2000, I've been, I've been one of the judges of hundreds of Rocky judges did before.

01:48:58

Um, but Laura is like an icon from this thing.

01:49:04

Cause she not only competed in it, she went on to nationals and, and, and has, uh, did really well in these competitions, you know, fine arts festivals.

01:49:14

Yeah. Okay. So, you know, exactly what I'm talking about then you got, you got 15 ,000 horrible kids and like two that are amazing, you know, but I love them all.

01:49:23

They're all pursuing whatever gifts God has given them. So, which is funny. I actually was judging them last night cause they're doing a virtual this year.

01:49:31

But, um, um, I've been doing this for four years. Yeah. We get married in January, the things in April and, uh,

01:49:41

I get my check and it says DJ Morford, I'm like, who wrote this?

01:49:51

Oh, it was, it was Laura's name. That's funny. Are you kidding me?

01:49:57

Do you think they did that as a goof? Cause they like, no, they, they, they seriously thought they were just like, oh,

01:50:02

I've been doing this for four years. I know all of you people.

01:50:08

Right. How are you going to, oh, that's funny. So I'm still offended by that.

01:50:13

Yeah. So, um, I don't think it really says Laura's a husband in parentheses, but if you don't, you can reach out to him there.

01:50:19

So guys, I appreciate you coming by and, uh, everyone listening. We will see you next time.

01:50:24

Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at dead men walking podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips, or email us at dead men walking podcast at gmail .com.