December 22, 2020 Show with John Samson on “Behold, the Virgin Will Conceive”

The Iron Sharpens Iron Program Opens and Introduces the Guest

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carwile, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 22nd day of December 2020.

And I'm always thrilled to have back as a returning guest in this program, my very dear friend, John Sampson. He is a former Word of Faith Pentecostal pastor and TBN televangelist and talk show host who converted by the grace and mercy of God to Reform Baptist theology and cessationist pneumatology.

He's also an author and pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and blogger at effectualgrace .com. Today we are going to be addressing a theme, a very timely theme for the upcoming celebration of the conception and birth of Christ, Behold the Virgin Will Conceive.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor John Sampson.

Thank you, Chris. It's always a delight to ever talk to you and to be on the show as well.

Amen. And if anybody wants to join us on the air with a question of your own email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, let's say you are in a church or a religion that denies one of the pillar doctrines of Christendom, that is the virgin conception and birth of Jesus Christ, and perhaps you're being enlightened by biblical truth over this, and you're not ready to make it public, so you'd rather remain anonymous right now.

If it's something like that, we understand that you'd want to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general question on theology, please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

And before we go into our theme today, Behold the Virgin Will Conceive, if you could let our listeners know about King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Word of Faith, Seventh-day Adventism, and a Testimony of Grace

At King's Church, if we want to just be a biblical church, the central truths of the gospel, now meeting in a meeting place, that is, we found out that we're not the first to go.

Well, I just strongly advise you not to have pig roasts in the parking lot there, because the Seventh-day Adventists are known for being vegetarian. And by the way,.

But you know, I can say firsthand.

That although I have my very strong theological differences with the Seventh-day Adventists, I do believe that there are true believers among them. In fact, one of my favorite interviews that I have had was with a former Seventh-day Adventist theologian, a very well-known Seventh-day Adventist theologian, and he had been excommunicated, actually, by the main denominational headquarters because of his steadfast opposition to a doctrine called the investigative judgment.

And although he afterward, even after being excommunicated, he basically adhered to many of the other teachings of Seventh-day Adventism. His name was Desmond Ford, Dr. Desmond Ford, who is now in heaven.

He went home to be with the Lord, I can't remember how long ago, but it wasn't that long ago, maybe about a year ago.

Yeah, he had to share a very, very impactful testimony he had.

Yes, but I have had firsthand experience because I used to have a friend, a local friend, and perhaps he's even listening, Mike Curzon, a Jewish believer who was a Seventh-day Adventist pastor on Long Island.

And I had developed a friendship with him and used to visit his congregation from time to time when they had fellowship meals. And it was very hard for me to turn down a free meal anywhere. And they made this extraordinary vegetarian food that sometimes you wouldn't even know it wasn't real meat they were using in their meatloaf and other things.

But anyway, that's not what we're talking about today. I just thought I'd throw that in there. So also tell us about Effectual Grace, your blog at effectualgrace .com.

Yeah, over the years, I've tried to cover many subjects and useful resources for people. I've written articles over a lengthy list.

Great, that's effectualgrace .com, E-F-F-E-C-T-U-A-L, grace .com. And before we go into the theme also, you are a living reminder, because of your testimony, that we have to be very careful as believers who, especially perhaps if we are from a theologically reformed or even fundamentalist background, a strong cessationist background, we have to be very careful not to write off as unredeemable those folks that we hear about and meet and know who are in one of the worst heresies known to modern Christendom, the Word of Faith Pentecostal movement.

It is a very dangerous and damning movement. But I think the two extreme errors that Christians can often fall into are, number one, the much more dangerous, infinitely more dangerous error of embracing that heresy.

But the other end of the spectrum that is equally, well, not equally dangerous, but it is dangerous and sad, is that we may all too often write off the folks that we know in that movement as, I'm not even going to waste my breath evangelizing them, and I'm just going to ignore them or just angrily rebuke them for everything they say, teach, and believe.

Those are two opposite errors, but they're both unfortunate and serious errors, aren't they?

Absolutely, and you hit the nail on the head, and we need to be kind and gracious in any kind of religion.

Amen. And if anybody, after this live program is over, wants to hear Pastor John Sampson's testimony of how he was delivered out of the Word of Faith heresy, after even being a prominent figure in that heresy, not just your average member, but a pastor and a TBN talk show host in that movement, you could go to ironsharpenxionradio .com and click on the Podcast Past Shows section, and if you type in the search engine, S-A-M-S-O-N, John's last name, S-A-M-S-O-N, you will get all of his interviews, including that interview where he gave his testimony of how he came to embrace the true biblical gospel of God's sovereign grace and has become...

One of those was a joint interview, although he spent...

Yes.

...who came out of that.

Yeah, Benny Hinn's nephew, who is now a Reformed Baptist pastor and a cessationist, and very boldly speaks out unwaveringly against his uncle's theology and against that whole movement as not only heretical, but even fraudulent in the sense that there are knowing deceivers, not just those folks that are deceived themselves, but knowing charlatans like his uncle in that movement.

He was one of the pastors. I was one of the... Being more involved than what I was.

Wow. Well, we are so glad that we may now count you among the truly biblically sound and faithful shepherds out there, having...

Thanks, Chris.

...having come by God's grace and mercy to renounce and denounce and repent from that wicked heresy and also to embrace the truths of biblical Christianity and specifically Reformed theology. And obviously, I don't need to ask you why you chose Matthew 1, verse 23 as your theme today, since we are very close to Christmas.

But behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they shall name him Immanuel, which translated means God with us. Now, just out of curiosity, I'm wondering if you have ever heard the Jewish refutation of the prophecy of this in the Old Testament in Isaiah, where you have rabbis and Jewish apologists write this off as not having the significance that Christians adhere to it.

The Jews, if they are those that reject Christianity, that is, because obviously there are Jewish people who are Christians, but the Jews that reject Christianity will say, well, this prophecy in Isaiah really is just saying that a young girl will conceive.

But isn't that nonsensical? Even though I understand that in the Hebrew, that is an option as far as the definition of the word used, but it is absurd to view this as a prophecy because teenage girls in that period of time routinely, in fact, most often were those that were conceiving and having babies and getting married.

Of course, not in that order. They were getting married first. Even Mary herself, the mother of Jesus, was likely a very young teenager when she was betrothed to Joseph and conceived by the Holy Spirit.

But isn't that a nonsensical way of trying to write that off by just saying that means a young woman?

To assign what in his gospel, a semantic range, it could be, I think a case could be made that the greatest interview of our generation, at least in terms of prominence, has been, I remember saying this thing in an instant.

He said, now, what would you have asked him?

Wow. Yeah, I was always impressed with Larry King's interviews with John MacArthur and other key Christian figures that were biblically sound and even the challenging questions that he on occasion asked those that were heretical, like Joel Osteen.

And quite fascinating to my knowledge. Unfortunately, I don't believe he has come to the Christian faith. In fact, he is married to a Mormon. And unfortunately, when Larry King asked Billy Graham, the late Billy Graham, what do you think of the Mormons?

Billy Graham said, I have no problem with those people. Now, that was an atrocious answer given by one of the key figures in the world in 20th century history that is viewed as the greatest spokesperson for the Christian faith of the modern era.

And what a tragedy that he answered that way.

Yes, if anybody is doubting the validity of what John just said,.

All you need to do is go to YouTube and type in Billy Graham's interview with Robert Shuler. And that will come up where Billy Graham is basically giving the definition, although he never called it inclusivism, he is defining his beliefs according to the way inclusivism is defined that Jesus Christ is the only savior, but you don't have to know that to be saved.

Yeah.

And I think that there are inclusivists and Billy Graham may have been one of them that would not go to the extent of universalist that what it is saying everybody is saved. I think that Billy Graham did believe that there was a hell of some kind.

But I mean, some universalists, full-blown universalists even believe Satan is going to be in heaven after being saved.

Yeah, it really, when you hold meetings in England and don't know, it's a...

The Virgin Birth as a Vital Christian Doctrine

Well, why is this truth such a vital pillar truth of Christianity? There are people that are still upheld and revered as even among the greatest of Christians that have ever lived, including Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. who, although there have been arguments made by his defenders that he, in their opinion, came to return to the biblical Christianity of his childhood.

His father was much more of a fundamentalist Baptist pastor, apparently. And there are those among his defenders that believe that Dr. King, after wallowing for years in an apostate, liberal, theological world, that he did return to the God of his childhood, as it were, to biblical Christianity and therefore a biblical understanding of Christ.

But he is very well known. Well, actually, he's not very well known in this regard, but he's well known amongst his critics, I should say, as having written that he did not believe in the virgin birth of Christ.

And there are some who know that, and likely these are people who either agree with that or are just lost, who have a veneer of Christianity or they are nominal Christians. But there are those that revere him even knowing that as a great example of Christianity and a hero of the Christian faith.

Now, can you be both? Isn't this a much more vital issue than many have realized?

I believe so. It goes to the formation of the 18. Now, the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. And he goes on to, in illegitimacy, he's not pseudovine son of God as the innocent one.

And one thing, in fact, I'm going to go to our first break. I didn't realize how quickly time had vanished. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And again, please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA, we'll be right back with John Sampson after these messages.

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day.

To talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray. I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one-time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

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The Virgin Birth, the Nicene Creed, and Mary’s Role

Welcome back. This is Chris Lawrence and your host of Iron Carpentine Radio. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with a little bit less than 90 minutes to go was Pastor John Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

He is also an author and one of my favorite guests to have on this program. And we are discussing that vital pillar doctrine and historical event. Behold, the Virgin will conceive. And obviously that is in reference to the conception of our Lord, God, Savior and King, Jesus Christ in the womb of his mother, Mary, not by an earthly father, but by the Holy Spirit himself.

And if you have questions of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

First, I'd just like to read a commendation that we got for you by email. Chris, you have a great guest in John Sampson whose passion for truth is one to emulate. And this comes from none other than John Sampson.

That's actually from Greg in Buckeye, Arizona. I guess not only Ohioans are Buckeyes, but that's Greg from Buckeye, Arizona. And as far as an actual question, we got Grady, one of our faithful listeners, who's also a very faithful and generous financial supporter of this program.

Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina. Greetings, brothers. Does any of the prosperity false teachers use this or any of the other basic tenets of the faith to deceive their followers into believing they're preaching the truth?

If so, what other tenets of the faith do they use? I guess what he's asking, it seems, is do they believe in the virgin birth of Christ? And does that make it even more confusing when they have such a heretical view on other things?

Yeah, it's a good question. I think in the main, they do. It's the old dog. You give them the... And my understanding is the virgin birth, but it bring them into...

Well, thank you, Grady. And I hope you have a blessed Christmas with you and your loved ones in Asheboro, North Carolina. Well, if you could continue why this is such a vital teaching.

Yeah, and many churches, Creed, for example, the Nicene Creed, I have in front of me a quote from both of them. In the Nicene Creed, he came down from heaven and became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and was made 25 AD and born of the virgin plain.

God became Christ and his... It's not natural. Nothing in between. As many speak of his... And atheists obviously start off with the subject for a virgin to become pregnant. But that's the point of a miracle.

If there's a God, or we would say since there's a God who made everything, the other thing we're dealing with... And to look down, we think, because we've been thousands of years, some measure, but people in the ancient world going on because he was a massive believer.

Sent an angel beamed in the womb of Mary. That's what we're claiming. We're claiming divine intervention and an angelic announcement. Otherwise, most people haven't got but a minute and a half, two titles on the door of a church they might attend.

They affirm these things. I remember, Chris, one of the scariest moments of my life was trying to navigate a very, very narrow road around a high mountain in the Swiss Alps. You know, the high mountains of Switzerland.

And it had ended. And we're beyond that little rickety. The point of this is the guardrail had no real power of it yet. I've on a certain death. I use that as an analogy to say these his confessions of the church, while they're not infallible, they're not, they're immensely helpful.

And because the Holy Spirit has been with his, I don't need to know as an independent spirit, find out why normal was one of them. I'm sure that we believe that their mother. We have, let's see,.

We have Christian in South Central Pennsylvania. And Christian says that my Roman Catholic family and friends will most often seek to show and highlight Mary's role in salvation that they claim is a very significant and high role by pointing to the visitation of the angel Gabriel to Mary that we read in Luke chapter one.

They will say that salvation actually hinged on Mary's decision of agreeing to have Jesus conceived in her womb, because if she had rejected this, she would have had denied salvation to all whom would be saved.

And therefore we owe a great deal of our salvation to Mary, because without her agreeing to this, all would be lost and doomed forever. How do we respond to the Roman Catholic explanation of this that exalts Mary to a co-redemptrix as it were, which is co-redeemer.

And we will have you answer that when we come back. In fact, when we come back from our midway break, I'll even read the text. So if anybody else wants to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And as always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And keep in mind, folks, this is the longer than normal break that we have in the middle of the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show so that they can obey the FCC by localizing this program to Lake City, Florida through their own public service announcements and other things that they air that are local.

And while they do that, we air our globally heard commercials. So please use this time wisely and write down as much of the information as you can provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize our advertisers.

And that will subsequently likely convince them to remain our advertisers, which will mean that we will remain on the air for a longer future, God willing, because our advertisers are happy. So please do that for us.

Write down as much of the information as you can that our advertisers provide and then respond to our advertisers with that information. And also send in your question to John Sampson on Behold the Virgin Will Conceive at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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