Is It the Church's Job to Meet All the Relational Needs of People Who Reject Marriage?

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Once you adopt that perspective, you put yourself in this situation where now you have to figure out what to do with singles who have way too much time on their hand and nothing productive to do.

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Basically, you end up like, well, we have to provide endless hangouts for these people that simulate all the things they're supposed to be getting from marriage and children.

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Tim, the question for today's episode is, does the church have a responsibility to meet all the relational needs of people who reject marriage?

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Now, this question is not necessarily the kind of question that many people are asking straight up, meaning that…

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Yeah, I don't know that I've ever heard someone quite… Word it that way. Word it this way.

00:57

Right, right, right. So it's not necessarily a question that people are asking, but then it is an assumption that's built into the way that we actually think about what the church is doing.

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So many people are confronted with the reality that we're going to have a generation of people who… like significantly more people within a generation that have rejected the idea of marriage and children in general.

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And then the assumption that's baked into the fabric of the way that we even think about that is that we're going to have to figure out how to minister to these people, right?

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So we're going to have a lot of older women who basically have never been married their whole life and never had children their whole life.

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It's just them. And there's an assumption there that it's just the church's job to uniquely minister to that kind of person.

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And then this actually shows up in just older singles in general where they'll look around and they'll say that they don't feel like they fit anywhere within the church, right?

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So maybe they're too embarrassed to go to the singles ministries or maybe there isn't a singles ministry or something.

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It's just all awkward and they don't really want to go there. But then they feel out of place in all the young married classes or whatever, and then they feel out of place in the older married classes.

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And so they just feel like they don't have the ability to talk to people in terms of just their interests are different.

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Their life stage is different. And so there's this sense in which they feel like the church is geared towards people who are married, and it's geared towards people who have children.

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And then there's something wrong with that in their minds. It needs to be geared towards them, and it's not geared towards them.

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So everything about the church is making them feel like isolated and lonely and awkward and out of place.

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And so the assumption there is just that the church needs to fix that to a certain degree.

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We know what the fix is to that, right? Get married? No, you just put them all in the same room together.

02:57

Put them all in the same room. Yeah, but that would be reminding them of their singles.

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Reminding them of their – yeah, they're the black sheep of the church or something.

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So a lot of this is – so with those assumptions, there's many people who – the church is obviously pushing singleness right now pretty heavily.

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Oh, yeah. In every conceivable way. And then there's the expectation that the churches exist to make certain demographic groups of people feel welcome.

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So there's those kind of assumptions. But then the reality is that there's many people who come along and basically say, hey, what are we going to do with all these women who rejected marriage and children their whole life?

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And now they're 50 or 60, and they don't have anyone, right? So we're going to have to – like the church, like what is communicated there is the church is going to face the challenge of trying to minister to this demographic of people who rejected

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God's basic design for the human race, like with marriage and children their whole life. And now we're going to have to figure out how to fix that, right?

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So that's basically the assumption behind the question. And then I'm basically just kind of pushing back against that.

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So if you ask me, well, how – does a church have a responsibility to do that? I'm kind of pushing back against that and basically saying some things can't be fixed.

04:27

That seems like – well, what do you mean? What do you mean some things can't be fixed? I mean just – there's certain things that –

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I mean obviously there's consequences to actions, right? Right. Meaning –

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I'm not laughing at an individual who is in that kind of situation. I do look at that kind of situation, and I do think that that's sad, and I think it's – like it's a real sad thought to think about getting to do that.

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It's a pitiable thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but then at the end of the day, there are some things that you can't do, right?

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So I did this poll on Twitter. Does the church have a responsibility to meet all the relational needs of people who are unwillingly single?

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And it went kind of a predictable way in that way in that most people didn't really understand how extreme that question actually is worded,

05:22

OK? Yeah. So meaning like it's worded in a very extreme way, meaning does a church have a responsibility to meet all the relational needs of people who reject marriage and children?

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Well, obviously not. I mean the answer is obviously not, OK? Meaning like what are relational needs?

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Well, God's created men and women to desire intimacy with members of the opposite sex, right?

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Right. So obviously you can't meet all the relational needs of men and women who have been designed uniquely to procreate and to form families and to have children.

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I mean what are you going to do, right? So like if you think about it with your brain, like I'm a man.

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I'm married to a woman and I have a job to meet her relational quote -unquote needs, right?

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Her relational desires. So God's put me there for a reason to be like a close form of intimate companionship with my wife.

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But the reality is like I can't. Like what am I going to do? How am I going to meet all the relational needs of all these single women as a man?

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Get them married to all the older single men in the church. But if they rejected that, like if they rejected that, then

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I can't step in and be that for them, right?

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But then there's like a real sense in which my wife can't really step in and be that for them either because she has responsibilities to people, if that makes sense.

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So like the only – so like if you think about how companionship actually works, like this desire for companionship, like companionship means like it has entailments.

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Like it means like living with people, right? Like so being like a real companion, like a life companion means

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I'm going to live with – like so what are you going to do like in this kind of framework? Do you just like take all the single women who rejected marriage and children and let them live with you?

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Well, that would cause some problems. What are you talking about? I see no negative consequences.

07:26

Well, then what do you do? You get them to – like they have desires for opposite sex companionship, right?

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We'll get them to live with like members of the opposite sex who are also in the same state.

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Well, congratulations. You invented marriage. I mean, but if you – it's like, so what are you going to do?

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Do you just like have these celibate gay companionship – or celibate like companionship relationships like with members of the same sex or opposite?

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It's just like this doesn't work, right? So like meaning – and now you have all these desires to – like women have desires.

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Whether or not they realize it, they have desires to mother things, right? So they're going to mother their – most of them like who reject marriage are going to mother dogs or something like that.

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They're going to find something to mother or they're going to try to mother everyone in the church and it's like we don't need more mothers. We have a mother.

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We don't need you to be our mother, right? So you think about like desires for intimacy, desires for companionship, desires to mother people.

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You have guys who reject marriage. They're going to have some desire to lead that is like a relational desire to lead that is never going to be able to be fulfilled, right?

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So you look at that. You look at all these things. You look at the way that God has made us. He has made us like with these relational desires, these relational created purposes, right?

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These relational needs and he has designed them to be safely fulfilled in the context of marriage and children.

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If you reject that, then like you're putting yourself in a spot where you have all these created desires and purposes that you're just kind of – you're never going to be able to fully do what you're supposed to be doing with those things.

09:10

Does that make sense? Yeah. So with this conversation, I mean I think what's going to happen is a lot of people hear that question, does the church have a responsibility to meet all the relational needs of people who reject marriage?

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They're going to hear that question and then hear your answer and immediately assume what you're saying is that you should not meet any of their relational needs.

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So is that what you're saying? No. I'm just trying to say that not all those relational needs can be lawfully met.

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Right, right. Not all those relational needs can be lawfully met and not all those relational needs can be practically met.

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Yeah, especially like the marital relationships and then the parental relationships, right?

09:57

Right, yeah. So the issue is like when you think about the way marriage actually works and family actually works, you have an intimate companion that you live in close proximity to, you dwell with, right?

10:11

In that way. So I mean the best thing you can do is, OK, invite a single person over to Thanksgiving for you or something, right?

10:18

Yeah. Adopt an older single person. You know what I'm saying? What's that? Yeah, yeah.

10:24

Yeah, I mean you invite them over to Thanksgiving but then like the reality is you have different responsibilities to different groups of people, right?

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So like within the framework of our marriage, like my marriage, I have in -laws.

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She has in -laws. Half of them get Thanksgiving at one time. The other half would get Thanksgiving the other time.

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And so like the best you're going to do is just try to let them try to share some of these events with you.

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They can't share them all because maybe you're traveling one way one year, one way another year.

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And so it's just like what you end up having is you're going to have people who are going to be sitting in a house by themselves.

11:07

Right. Nothing to do and no family around, right? Now, I mean like the issue is like, okay, like practically speaking, if the church feels like it has some kind of responsibility to fix it all,

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I'm just looking at them and I'm just saying, hey, basically, hey, the reality is we're not going to be able to fix it all.

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And there are some things that we can't fix. So, I mean that doesn't mean that like the church family isn't a real family and it doesn't mean that the church shouldn't try to do what it can.

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But then the church, first and foremost, and part of this is what's the problem with the whole discussion in general is the church has kind of accepted this obligation to tailor itself to minister uniquely to a particular demographics and ages and genders and everything else.

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And the church is a big family, right? Yeah. The church is a big family and we're a family together. And if you reject this – what you need to do is reject this idea that we exist to uniquely like minister to a certain demographics or provide spaces for them to get together and hang out and all of it segregated by age and demographic and stage of life and all that.

12:23

So, once you adopt that perspective, you put yourself in this situation where now you have to figure out what to do with singles who have way too much time on their hand and nothing productive to do.

12:32

And basically you end up like, well, we have to provide endless hangouts for these people that simulate all the things they're supposed to be getting from marriage and children.

12:41

So, reject that. Like that isn't really what the church is doing anyways. Like we're here to equip the saints for the works of ministry and we do that by pursuing multi -generational relationships in that way.

12:52

But there are some things we're not going to be able to fix. That's kind of the point. And there's a lot of – like the issue is there's a lot of temptations that people face, particularly when – a good example of this is – passes like 1

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Timothy 5. And so – and I tried to mention this on Twitter and it – to certain people to describe the kind of dynamic

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I'm talking about. But 1 Timothy 5 basically says, And it's worse than an unbeliever.

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And not only idlers but also gossips and busybodies saying things they should not. So I would have the younger widows marry barren children and manage their own household and give the adversary no occasion for slander.

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But I mean this is just an example of a passage which talks about like a Christian responsibility to meet the needs, like the physical needs of its members, right?

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Right, yeah. And so you have a responsibility. Yeah, financially you should be caring for widows who are true widows.

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But then the issue is like if you have a young widow, her husband dies, and you say, hey, it's my job to meet all of your needs.

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Well, what's going to end up happening is you're going to finance her lifestyle, but she's not going to have anything to do.

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Like that's the point of the passage, right? So you've taken on that job to provide for her. She's not going to have anything to do.

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So all that she's going to do because she's idle is learn to go from house to house and be gossipers and busybodies and saying things that you shouldn't say.

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So the issue is encourage her to do what she's designed to do. What is she designed to do? Get married, have kids, manage your own household.

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Like let her do the things she's designed to do. So here's the issue. Like when singles reject the things God has called them to do, reject marriage, they reject children.

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And you come along and you think as a church, it's your job to kind of enable them to do that by trying to meet all their needs.

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What ends up happening is they don't have anything to do, right? Right. And so then they're going to look at the church and they're going to basically say, hey, entertain me, right?

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Be there for me. Develop all these programs for me. Get me out of this. Yeah. Give me something to do.

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Fix my problem. It's like, don't you love me? Don't you care about me? And like the issue is, well, I love you.

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I care about you. Get married, have kids. OK? Because you need more to do than what we're going to be able to provide.

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We can't – like the pastor can't like sit there and talk with you all day long.

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Right. Right. So all the church members who are busy doing the things

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God's literally called the human race to do, like get married, have kids, manage your own household, they're all busy doing that.

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You don't have anything to do. I mean you go to your work, you do your job, and at a certain point it's just like, what are you going to spend your time with?

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Well, you've rejected all the other things God wanted you to spend your time with and now you don't have anything to do. And now you're going to look at the church and say fix it.

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I just think there are things we can't fix and we shouldn't accept the responsibility that we should. OK. Fair enough.

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