September 27, 2022 Show with Eric Johnson on “Introducing Christianity to Mormons”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation

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To make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. And now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity

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Living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 27th day of September 2022

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I am thrilled to have a first -time guest today His name is

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Eric Johnson and he works with Mormonism research ministry

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And I'll be introducing him momentarily, but since I didn't have time to do so yesterday since we had three guests on And didn't really have much time to give you all a report a praise report

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But my pastors luncheon last Thursday the iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon that I have biannually this

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Time featuring dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega ministries Was absolutely magnificent Praise be to God.

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We had the largest turnout ever approximately 200 men were there and I keep getting reports praise reports from the men in attendance on how

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They were blessed in extraordinary ways and it's what makes it even more amazing. Is that dr.

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White? Didn't even know what he was coming to speak on until he sat down on the ledge of the platform there in the sanctuary of Church of the

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Living Christ in Louisville, Pennsylvania and Began opening up his heart about how his experiences as a hospital chaplain groomed him for a

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Superior Abilities to labor in pastoral ministry.

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He had experienced things as a hospital chaplain that he had never before experienced and gone through trials with families that he had never faced before and That very much of that content is in book is included in his book grieving our path back to peace

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That was magnificent the debate that he had with dr. Peter van Cleek also at Church of the

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Living Christ in Louisville, Pennsylvania on the theme The textus receptus as the

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Word of God is equal to the New Testament autographs. Dr. White was opposing that thesis

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Dr. Peter van Cleek was defending it. That was a Great success as well.

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We had a very good turnout for that and he spoke at Two other churches and that was those were excellent events and everything was finalized by him preaching at the

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Sunday morning service at Church of the Living Christ in Louisville, and I loved being in attendance and things so all of those

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Events should be available on YouTube and we will get you more detailed information in the days

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I hope that many of you if not, all of you listening will take advantage of those resources but as I was saying today we have for the first time on the program

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Eric Johnson who works with Mormonism research ministry and Has written and co -authored several books including answering

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Mormons questions Mormonism 101 and sharing the good news with Mormons today.

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We are addressing his latest book Introducing Christianity to Mormons a practical and comparative guide to what the

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Bible teaches and that features a forward by someone who's been a guest on this program

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Michael Wilder a former Mormon who is a Convert to Christianity by the grace and mercy of God We discussed his book passport to heaven in the past on this program

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But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to our interpret design radio Eric Johnson Thanks for having me on Chris.

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I appreciate it I am also thrilled to have a returning guest somebody who I have had the privilege

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The great privilege and honor to call my friend going back to the late 1980s early even before I had my own program as an account executive for WMCA radio

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Which is a part of the Salem? Media network of radio stations the largest radio the largest

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Christian radio network in the world While working there as an account executive in the 90s and early 2000s.

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I was able to book Dr. Latane C Scott as a guest on their in -house talk show

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Andy Anderson long was originally called talk, New York late and then after Departing WMCA and launching my own show.

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I've had the privilege of interviewing her a number of times she is a former

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Mormon and convert to Christianity and the author of the Mormon Mirage a former member looks at the

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Mormon Church today and Quite a number of other books as well, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio as a co -host

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Once again, dr. Latane C Scott. Oh It's always a privilege

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Chris. Thank you so much for inviting me. Oh, it's my pleasure to have you on sister and Eric, please tell our listeners about Mormonism research ministry well, it's a ministry that started in 1979

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Bill McKeever founded that and He's today still the leader the president of Mormonism research ministry we

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Used to live in California Bill moved to Utah in 2004. I followed him in 2010

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And today we have a podcast of our own that we've been doing since 2011 called viewpoint on Mormonism and that that can be found at mrm .org

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slash podcast We're on six different radio stations this past month. We added a station in Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii We're pretty excited about that.

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We have a website Mrm .org that has many different articles we get about Sixteen seventeen hundred hits a day

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And so a lot of people go there for information on Mormonism and we have a two -fold purpose the first Objective we have is to share our faith with Latter -day

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Saints being in Utah We have plenty of opportunity to do that and then secondarily

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We also want to share with Christians what Mormonism really is and how they can be effective in talking to their

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Latter -day Saint friends and family members Well, I want to also thank Really heartfelt

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Demonstration of gratitude to your publisher Harvest House publishers They donated 100 copies of your book introducing

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Christianity to Mormons to my recent pastors luncheon and I know that they should come in very handy because there are quite a lot of Mormons around here in the south -central,

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Pennsylvania area much to my surprise after moving here and I just want to thank them again for being so generous and Providing these and Eric I'll be sure to let you know if I begin to hear back from Some of these men with praise reports about your book

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That's great. I appreciate it and we have a custom here We have a tradition here in iron chirping

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Zion radio whenever we have a first -time guest. We have that guest Give a summary of their salvation testimony

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Which would include the kind of religious atmosphere if any in which you were raised the kind of providential

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Circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you

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So, please if you could give us a summary of your salvation story well, I grew up in a

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Christian home actually specifically denominational wise Lutheran Church and When I was 10 years old,

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I was watching Billy Graham in 1972 at a Crusade and when everybody came forward at the end as they always would do with the

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Billy Graham crusades I asked my parents what they were doing They said well, they were inviting Jesus into their heart and I asked my parents.

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Is that something that I have done? They said well, I don't know have you and so I knelt right there and prayed and asked

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Jesus to be a part of my life Officially, although I had faith before that time and then it was a few years later 1978

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Jim Jones had a brought a bunch of people down to Guyana and He was supposed to be some kind of a

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Christian pastor But he had a thousand people drink cyanide laced Kool -Aid that really threw me for a loop and after that time

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I decided I wanted to make sure that I was owning my own faith and not just borrowing my parents faith So I did a lot of research reading the scriptures of different religions when people came to the door inviting them into a conversation and Talking to Hare Krishnas and others out at San Diego State taking world religion classes

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Those are the kinds of things that I've really wanted to understand what they believe So that kind of got me started in comparing what

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I believe to be true with what other people Believe and that's kind of and then in 1987 ended up coming to Utah Having done some work with Mormons before and I really fell in love with the

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Mormon people. That's why I settled on This kind of ministry meeting Bill McKeever in 1989 and have been involved with that ministry ever since well, praise

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God and Well, tell us why in the 21st century when we have a lot of books written about Mormonism That fill the shelves of the the rare Christian bookstore that still exists or the the websites of Christian book distributors

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Why did you say to yourself, you know? There's a lot of great books out there

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But I think there is need for at least one more And the idea of introducing

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Christianity to Mormons a practical and comparative guide to what the Bible teaches Why did that?

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Come to your mind and why did you believe that this was something that should be included? Among the other resources that Christians already have available.

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I trust me Chris. I wasn't looking to write another book I've written other books and I kind of thought maybe I was done with all the ideas that I had

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But in August of 2020 my daughter my youngest daughter Hannah came into the office where I'm sitting right now and Asked me for a book to give to a co -worker who was a

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Latter -day Saint but left the church and we have to understand They are leaving in droves with it can vouch for that I'm sure that they have in the last decade just been leaving like crazy and And not going to our churches our evangelical

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Christian churches going to really nothing racism But she asked me for this book.

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You're right. There are a lot of books One of my favorites is the case for Christ by Lee Strobel great book has some great chapters in the beginning

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The first seven chapters having to do with the Bible and its reliability But as I look through that book and others

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They're all good books But it didn't seem like there was a book there that would really reach out to a

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Latter -day Saint who has the same Terminology the same language that we as evangelical

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Christians use but they have different meanings to them and those kinds of words are not Described in any of those books that talk about basic Christianity.

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I asked I told my daughter I said, you know I think this is a book that needs to be written But I said it innocently enough and that afternoon as I'm mowing the grass.

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I Thought to myself I really need to write this book because I think this would be a helpful book to a lot of Latter -day

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Saints Claim to be Christian, but they don't understand what we as evangelical

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Christians do believe they have a lot of straw man arguments So when we use those terms like God Jesus salvation by grace through faith, they'll all say oh

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I agree with those things, but unless you can define what those things mean It's not going to make any difference trying to explain your faith to a to a

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Latter -day Saint I want to get rid of the stereotypes I want to get rid of the straw man arguments that Latter -day

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Saints use against our faith such as the Trinity well who was Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane is a common question you'll get and that misunderstands what the

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Trinity is or salvation by grace and the idea that Immortality is provided based on what we did

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Well in the pre -existence is what Mormonism teaches that we lived in a previous life before this as spirit children of God of heavenly father

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And heavenly mother and so because we were born here We were worthy because we did right but that's not true salvation in Mormonism It's not just immortality that all people get one of three kingdoms of glory.

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It's actually exaltation or eternal life or celestial glory and that's by keeping all the commandments of God continually the

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Unique LDS scriptures and there are four of them the King James Version They have the Book of Mormon the

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Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price and especially those unique Three scriptures the the

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Book of Mormon is very clear on what needs to be done Keep the commandments of God continually and unless you do where I am

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You cannot go is what God supposedly tells Emma Smith and Doctrine and Covenants 2515

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So in the short answer this book is needed because I think Christians need to not so much worry about getting them out of the church

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They're leaving the church but rather to help them understand that they should not throw the baby out with the bathwater to provide a

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Reasonable alternative to Mormonism. This is not just an alternative. This is the truth. We we believe that the

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Bible is true We believe that Jesus is a Savior and I want to be is the Savior and we want to be able to provide that to the

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Latter -day Saint Yes, you remind me. Okay, go ahead Your book

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Introducing Christianity to Mormons is really a good book and I wanted to follow up on one thing that you mentioned you said that we may be using the same terminologies, but meaning different things and in your book you gave a

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Terrific example of that with the word mom I wonder if you would mind sharing that because it's such a good accessible example that you gave

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Yeah, and and you know what this booklet ain is not unique I copied from everybody

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I borrowed from all the different writers scholars And so this one this story I took from my friend

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Corey Miller who heads up a ministry called ratio Christie Excellent ministry that is at the colleges and this is from his book

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But this is what it says many Mormons initially saw pedal differences until forced to admit them So I try to engage them by illustration

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Then he says me. Let me ask you a personal question Do you have a mom to the Latter -day Saint the

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Mormons smiles will reply? Yes, of course, and he says I do too. Can you spell that the

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Mormon says? Mom Me no way. I spell it the same way.

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Maybe we have the same mom I asked can you spell it backwards the Mormon says? Mom me and excitedly

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I blurred out surely We have the same mom because it is spelled the same Then he writes upon further describing our respective moms

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If hers is six foot tall and mine only four feet tall Then they are two different moms one can then point out that while we all spell

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Christ and God the same way the meetings Aren't necessarily the same. I thought that was a great illustration as you pointed out here

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Because what it's done is it says? Yes, we if you go down the line, they'll agree with all the terms we believe in But if you don't define what that term means, that's our problem

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Yes, and in fact a woman who is a Mormon Responded to the promotion of this interview saying that it was and I'm paraphrasing what she said

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But she was basically saying it was ridiculous That we were even discussing this subject he said that Jesus Christ is obviously the cornerstone of the

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Church of Latter -day Saint it that is also further revealed in the very name the

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Church of Jesus Christ alone And so therefore is absurd that we as Christians were a claim

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That we had to introduce Christianity to Mormons, and I just simply responded to her

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Going along with the theme of what you are now saying we bet that Mormons have very often the same vocabulary, but a different dictionary and I said the

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Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the and why don't you?

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now give some of outlines some of the very Basics as we start off this and the the core issues that would separate

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Mormonism from well, let me first bring up what you just mentioned the title of my book introducing

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Christianity to Mormons is Controversial I suppose I didn't write it for the Latter -day Saints particularly although I would love people to be able to give that book to the

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Latter -day Saints as I would hope like my daughter could give to her friend but Introducing Christianity is the first two words, and that's those are loaded terms

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And I don't suggest you go up to Latter -day Saints and say you're not a Christian Oh, yes, we are because you're gonna get in this ping -pong match back and forth, and that's not gonna do any good

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I never bring up that issue with Latter -day Saints and say you're not a Christian because they take that very sensitively

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But I'm gonna say and Latane you can you can help me on this 30 years ago Latter -day Saints didn't want to be known as Mormons or excuse me as Christians they wanted to be known as Mormons would you agree with that?

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Oh, yes, because they wanted a differentiation between what they saw as a restored and complete

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Christianity as opposed to what the Christian world had which was a deficient

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Christianity because There'd been no authority on the earth for Christianity for 1 ,800 years, so you're absolutely right about that Yeah, so so in recent years

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We've seen where where Christians seems to be something they want to hold on to so we have to understand when that does come up We have to explain what we do have differences

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We're not the same, but then the idea that I would write to Mormons that is not supposed to be a term

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We're allowed to use anymore because the current prophet of the church 98 year old

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Russell M. Nelson He's the 17th president of the church He was supposedly told by Jesus that he's offended when that is used to replace

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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints the official name of the church So they even had

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I think it's great branding that they took away LDS org and Mormon org They said well, we're not going to use those anymore even though for years that like for instance 15th president

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Gordon B. Hinckley in 1990 at a general conference said that Mormon means more good, and he he said it was fine

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They could call us worse things he said but but Nelson says we're not allowed to use that anymore

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So they actually took away those two website pages that now it's called the Church of Jesus Christ Our Church of Jesus Christ org and you have to type in a lot more words.

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I cheat all the time I'm probably making Jesus on happy, but I put Mormon or LDS or to get to the website

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I want to get to but I asked the letter they say well How am I supposed to title my book and four words

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I can communicate to a Christian audience introducing Christianity to Mormons? Am I supposed to say?

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introducing Evangelical Christianity to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day

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Saints that title would never been have been accepted by Harvest house you asked

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Chris. What are some of those top issues? Well what I do in the back of the book is I have an appendix that is a glossary of terms

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And so there are a number of differences. Who is God? Mormonism believes that God has a body of flesh and bones that God Once lived in another realm as a human being he could have been a sinner

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He died he became the god of this world that he worshipped a god before Him and who was his heavenly father and then that heavenly father worshipped a god in Infinite regression of the gods the

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God of Christianity says that I am the only God There is no God before or after me.

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Isaiah 43 10 Isaiah 44 6 and 8 God doesn't know of any other God show them to me

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He says Psalm 90 verse 2 from everlasting to everlasting thou art

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God Very clearly the Bible says that God is our only God and there are no others

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Another another thing would be salvation. How does a person receive salvation? I alluded to it earlier according to Mormonism they do believe in grace and the way

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I distinguish this in my book in the appendix is For the Christian we believe that it's unmerited favor from God provided to those who place their trust in Jesus I tried to limit myself the one sense so hard to do

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But that is what Christianity says unmerited because we didn't do anything to earn it Mormonism says

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Grace is God's enabling power provided by God to help a person keep the commandments.

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Do you see what was just done? They slipped the fast one in there and what they're saying that's right off of the church website

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By the way, God's enabling power for you to keep the commandments because you're saved by grace

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After all you can do that's what the Book of Mormon says in 2nd Nephi 25 23

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That's opposite of what the Bible teaches in Ephesians 2 8 9 that we're saved by grace through faith

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It's not of ourselves. It is the gift of God not by works lest any man should boast

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So just understanding the nuances of the differences that I've talked about here. I think will help a person

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Understand that at the heart of the matter Mormonism denies or distorts every fundamental teaching in the historic

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Christian Church Period that's that's the the truth and we have to go to our first break right now

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If you have a question for our guest today, Eric Johnson Send it in to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

24:02

Chris a are n z en at gmail .com as always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence

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Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

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Let's say you are a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints You are starting to question your own religion

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Some of the things that my guest and co -host dr. Latane C Scott Some of the things they're saying are beginning to make sense to you perhaps

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And you really don't want to draw attention to your identity at this point Since you are still a

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Mormon I can understand reasons like that Would compel you to remain anonymous?

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And others of course, but but if it's just a general question on Mormonism Please give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence.

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I'll remind my guest and co -host that since you are on Microsoft Teams, you will not be hearing the commercials and We would remind you also that you say every sound you make will be so don't go away

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We'll be right back after these messages. Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and Friends weekend now

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I don't have to tell you but American education It's in a freefall crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system

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The answer it's called classical Christian education a form of K through 12 ed

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That's very distinct from the type of education. Most Americans have received myself included and That's why

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I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's grace Christian Academy to talk about this wonderful growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education

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It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York I'll also be signing copies of my

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New York Times best -selling book battle for the American mind for the first 50 guests starting at 6 p .m

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Now this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education

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At a time when it is so desperately needed So please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our great country

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You can purchase tickets for the event by visiting G Cali GC a li .com

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and following the link to the gala event. I hope to see you there Satan is the father of lies and spin and the mother of those lies is a government who has rejected

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God We have especially been lied to these last two years and the kovat panic has been one of the central

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Mechanisms that our government has used to lie to us and grab more power because Christians have not been reading their

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Bibles We are susceptible to lies and are weak in our ability to fight these lies God has given us his word to fight

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Satan and his lies and we need to recover all of God's Word It's serrated edge and all

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Mark your calendars for October 6th through 8th as we fight laugh and feast to the glory of God in Knoxville, Tennessee You'll be enlightened edified encouraged and challenged by 10 speakers on the theme lies

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Propaganda storytelling and the serrated edge covering various topics that address the burning issues facing the church in the world today

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Speakers include pastor Doug Wilson of Christ Church of Moscow, Idaho and the whole gang at the cross politics show and podcast for details visit

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FLFnetwork .com that's F for fight L for laugh F for feast

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FlFnetwork .com see you there October 6th through 8th in Knoxville, Tennessee Have you noticed the gap that exists between the

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Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small group study? So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study

28:08

God's Word in those smaller settings Well, let's be honest. It leaves a lot to be desired

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It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today That is true to the

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Word of God and it's built upon sound doctrine Much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the

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Bible Hi there. My name is Jordan too, and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound

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God bless you It's such a blessing to hear from iron sharpens iron radio listeners from all over the world

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So I hope you order your jewelry as quickly as possible so that we can benefit from it. We are now back with my guest

38:48

Eric Johnson Eric is the author of the new book introducing

38:53

Christianity to Mormons and We also have as a co -host today. My dear friend.

38:58

Dr. Liptang C Scott who is also well, unlike my guest she is a

39:07

Former Mormon who was saved by the grace and mercy the author of quite a number of books as well including the

39:15

The classic work the Mormon Mirage and if you ever want to hear any of our interviews here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with Liptang C Scott just go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com

39:27

and Type in Liptang in the search engine L -A -T -A -Y -N -A and there are quite a number of them including recently

39:37

Liptang's response to the recent TV series

39:43

Under the Banner of Heaven which got quite a lot of responses

39:49

From listeners both positive and negative. There are not only angry

39:54

Mormons Sadly, but there were also people who had left Mormonism Who were angry that we were offering?

40:04

Hope of any kind in the spiritual realm That included

40:09

Jesus Christ and so on they didn't care what kind of religion we were endorsing the fact that we were giving

40:15

The hope of eternal life to sinners they thought was just ridiculous. They've been so burned by their experiences

40:22

So I hope that you look up those Programs and Liptang as a former

40:28

Mormon when you have read Eric's book introducing Christianity to Mormons What about it did you like so much

40:37

I heard you speaking with Eric before we even went on the air and you were Quite impressed with his work.

40:42

What about his book? did you like the most you've already mentioned some things but Did anything trigger the thought in your head?

40:51

I wish that I've seen this book When I was a Mormon long before I I converted to Christianity Actually, I wish that the people who are trying to help me out of Mormonism it had a book like this

41:05

It's a very useful book one of the things I think that is most useful about it besides the

41:11

Did you call it Erica a glossary at the end or you called it something else a glossary?

41:17

Okay, that that is helpful. But just the entire setup of the book because he starts with Things that are

41:26

I think most basic and he used a device that's very helpful to people

41:31

I think readers of today in that he gave a kind of a pricey or a summary of each of the chapters in About a paragraph or so and then he goes on to explain it

41:41

So as you're looking through the book if there is a subject that you're interested in and you're not really sure it sure which category it would fall in you can read his little summary there and And I say little not because it's insignificant but it because it's short and accessible

41:57

I thought that was really good and I I guess another thing that I really appreciated was

42:05

The way that he explained in a very accessible way

42:11

To what I'm afraid is a biblically illiterate church

42:17

How we got the Canon or the number of books that we have in the in the Old Testament in the

42:23

New Testament I thought his explanation of that was very accessible and very helpful Great, and we have a listener in Ada, Ohio who has a question for you,

42:34

Eric David he says could you discuss the salamander letters and the

42:41

Hoffman? problem which happened many years ago and Does that past have anything to do with the

42:49

Mormons of today? He has a second follow -up question if you want to start with the first Eric Well real quickly

42:57

There was a guy named Mark Hoffman who was a forger and actually The church the

43:03

LDS Church was purchasing a lot of his material that he was forging To take it off of the street so to speak and to be able to hide it

43:11

Gordon Hinckley was one of the main players Who later became the 15th president of the church He was the first counselor in the first presidency one of the top three leaders in the church

43:21

And so it doesn't really have much for my book or or really anything today but just to say that Mark Hoffman and master forger and and he ends up getting himself into trouble and Ends up using bombs to kill a couple of people

43:37

He actually maimed himself with the bomb that went off in his own car in Salt Lake City In fact our friends

43:44

Latane's friends of mine Gerald and Sandra Tanner were very much involved with that because Mark Hoffman had gone into their store and begged

43:52

Gerald to Authenticate his work because he felt that what he was doing was real

43:58

But one of the things that he did was called the salamander letter And because Joseph Smith was involved in a cultism.

44:04

He was involved in the magic worldview so to speak used a A seer stone to translate the

44:12

Book of Mormon He was always looking for treasure using that stone And so it made sense to the leaders that maybe

44:20

Joseph Smith did talk about seeing this magical salamander and that's why they wanted to buy that and other things and He was coming up more often was coming up with such incredible finds that it was impossible for anybody to have found all the things

44:34

That he did but he made a lot of money before he ended up getting caught now when you say that Gordon Hinckley and other

44:40

Mormon authorities were trying they're buying up Hoffman's alleged artifacts

44:49

That were actually forgeries But were they buying them up and hiding the contents of these artifacts because they believed them to be

45:02

Truly from the hand of Joseph Smith, but embarrassing to them about their history

45:08

Something like the Mountain Meadows Massacre for instance has embarrassed the

45:13

Mormon Church for many many years and It was only

45:19

I think fairly recently in history that they started being more open and honest about the

45:24

Actual events that occurred but the the murder of innocent men women and children

45:30

But so what was the deal there were they hiding it because they believed them to be real actually from Joseph Smith's hand but embarrassing or but because they suspected they were forgeries and just didn't want people to be duped by them

45:48

Not the latter. They really believed it to be true Otherwise, they would have called it forgeries and they would have asked the

45:54

FBI to step in and try to figure this out now the salamander letter was one that actually got released and The AP actually put out a copy of it with all the words there, which was quite embarrassing to the church but they were buying a lot of journals and other things that nobody knew anything about and Well, because they weren't real and so he was coming up with these things

46:15

But the thing that made him a genius as far as a forger goes he used the paper from the 19th century

46:20

He used the same ink. He had a way of I mean it was fooling the experts Maybe Latane can talk a little more about that But it's to me that just shows how culpable this religion is

46:33

To bad publicity as you mentioned Mountain Meadows it took them years and years before they came up and did a ceremony there at near Cedar City and they never apologized they just basically acknowledged that it happened, but never have taken any any guilt or Any any kind of apology to be given so that the church is very much

46:57

A public relations church wouldn't you agree with that Latane? I? Would and the

47:02

I think the most devastating factor That has happened has was the advent of the internet where people had access to many of these things

47:13

I mean when I left Mormonism I had Gerald and Tanner Sander Tanner's big old bulky book with photocopies of these documents but now anyone can go on the internet and people have provided those and I document in my book the the

47:30

Mormon Mirage how the church in Japan for instance was The Mormon Church in Japan was devastated by the advent of the internet because in kind of a closed

47:42

Society there as Japanese Mormons They had accepted everything that had been told to them by the

47:48

Mormon Church and and did not have access to for instance translated materials From the early church history and once they got that over the internet

47:57

They it it just decimated the population of the Mormon Church of Japan Just a microcosm of it because the church was not able to use their enormous funds and Publicity Arms and everything else to overcome that so yeah, you're absolutely right by the way

48:20

David Make sure you give us your full mailing address in Ada, Ohio because you have won a free copy of introducing

48:28

Christianity to Mormons Thanks to our friends at harvest house publishers who have donated a limited number of copies for those submitting questions today and also

48:39

That will be shipped out to you for free by our dear friends at Cumberland Valley Bible book service calm

48:46

Who will be shipping that out to you at no cost to you, so thanks for listening and submitting an excellent question

48:54

Just out of curiosity Latane how prevalent or Tiny is the

49:00

Mormon Church in Japan because years ago in the early 2000s when

49:06

I first launched an iron truck and Zion radio a Japanese listener since the program was as it is now

49:12

Livestream a Japanese listener who had been rescued out of the Mooney cult

49:18

Was thanking me for an interview. I did on the the Mooney's and she said that She was very depressed because she could not find a church home an evangelical

49:30

Christian church home near her Because less than 1 % of Japan is Christian, so how small could

49:35

Mormonism be it must be pretty small. I'm sorry I don't have any figures on that okay, and Eric One of the things that I have become very familiar with Is that as you even mentioned moments ago?

49:55

There is a lot to do with Mormonism is public relations Damage control and that kind of thing when

50:03

I first encountered face -to -face a Mormon as a brand -new born -again Christian I Responded to a television ad that said if you would like a book of Mormon hand delivered to your house by a

50:16

Mormon elder to call this toll -free number and I did so and at the time being a young Christian and As they call us when we're new into the reformed faith.

50:29

I was a cage stage Calvinist and I was ready to take on the world

50:34

With my newly found faith, so it was kind of a trap for the Mormon elders that came to my house

50:40

But there was a very different attitude in the late 80s when this encounter took place

50:49

Because the young man who was the more knowledgeable of the two that came to my home after the niceties and the friendliness he was very clear that he believed that the

51:02

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints was the only true church and And Much more recently in the 21st century

51:15

There are Mormons roaming around the neighborhoods of Carlisle, Pennsylvania right where I'm sitting and They the last time

51:24

I encountered them in the street when I noticed the white shirts the black ties and the black

51:29

Name tags or badges. I called out to them And approached them and started to have dialogue about the gospel and They had a totally different approach and basically they were saying you've probably heard that the

51:45

Mormons think we're the only true church But that's not true. We're Christians just like you So it was a very different Encounter and I want we have to go to our midway break.

51:56

So I want you to pick up on that when we return and If those who are also waiting to have their questions asked will be be patient We will get to you as soon as possible

52:06

But if anybody else wants to get in line, our email address is Chris orange and a gmail .com And as always give us a first name city and state and country of residence

52:15

And please be patient with us as we take this station break and don't go away.

52:20

We will be right back After hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and Friends weekend

52:26

Now I don't have to tell you but American education It's in a freefall crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system

52:36

The answer it's called classical Christian education a form of K through 12 ed

52:42

That's very distinct from the type of education Most Americans have received myself included and that's why

52:49

I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian Academy to talk about this wonderful growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education

53:00

It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York I'll also be signing copies of my

53:08

New York Times best -selling book battle for the American mind for the first 50 guests starting at 6 p .m

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Now this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education

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At a time when it is so desperately needed So, please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our great country you can purchase tickets for the event by visiting

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I hope to see you there every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools

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Volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call Long Island Youth for Christ at six three one three eight five eight three three three, that's six three one three eight five eight three three three or visit

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Li Y FC org, that's Li Y FC Getting a driver's license running a cash register flipping burgers passing sixth grade

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Do you know what they all have in common? They all require training assessments and certifications

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But do you know what requires no training at all? becoming a parent My name is a

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For life and godliness, please visit us at truth. Love parent calm James White of Alvin Omega ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough

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Bill Sousa Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron sharpens iron radio

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Financially Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers

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Which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

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Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory of God If you live near Franklin, Tennessee in Franklin is just south of Nashville Maybe ten minutes or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby

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We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church Our website is grace church at Franklin org

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That's grace church at Franklin dot o -r -g This is pastor

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Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always

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John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

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01:06:35

Before I return to our guest today Eric Johnson of Mormonism research ministry and dr.

01:06:41

Latane see Scott who is our co -host today just have a couple of very important announcements to make

01:06:47

First of all if you love this show, and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves I'm urging you

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Please go to iron sharpens iron radio calm click support Then click click to donate now you could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion

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As long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what we believe we would certainly love to help you launch an Ad campaign quickly because we are just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations

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It's iron sharpens iron radio calm click support then click click to donate now last but not least if you are not a member

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Of a Christ honoring biblically faithful theologically sound doctrinally solid Church No matter where you live on the planet

01:09:00

Earth I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches It may be able to help you find a church within minutes from your own home as I have done

01:09:08

Many times for listeners spanning the globe in our audience So if that's the case with you or someone you love you don't have a

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Christ honoring biblically faithful Church where you live Anywhere in the world send me an email to Chris Arnton a gmail .com

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and put I need a church in the subject line that's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest

01:09:28

Eric Johnson of Mormonism research ministry we are addressing his book Introducing Christianity to Mormons a practical and comparative guide to what the

01:09:37

Bible teaches published by Harvest House publishers and Before the break you may recall

01:09:43

Eric. I was asking you to Get more in detail on the radical shift in public relations

01:09:51

That has occurred with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. They are affirming and promoting things

01:09:57

That no one ten years ago perhaps would ever have dreamed that they would be doing

01:10:05

Especially in the area of those things that the left Champions, and if you could pick up the ball from there

01:10:13

Yeah, before I do you had asked the question how many people are in Japan just a look on the

01:10:20

Internet It's 130 ,000 people who are Our Japanese Mormons, that's 0 .1

01:10:28

percent, so it's not very high number, but 130 ,000 is still a number, but they're a worldwide organization.

01:10:35

They they are all over In fact more people live outside the United States than speak inside the live inside the

01:10:44

United States and languages They speak English is 45 % catch this 35 %

01:10:49

Spanish So that's 80 % but 35 % their first language is going to be

01:10:55

Spanish 9 % Portuguese Brazil they're going crazy building temples over there. The first one was in 1978.

01:11:01

So anyway Fewer inside the United States as there are outside now, but you had talked about people who said well we don't claim to be the only true church well,

01:11:12

I think a Christian it behooves them to know a little bit about the LDS standard works.

01:11:19

I had mentioned earlier the four scriptures that Mormonism teaches as far as the written scriptures I'll just read to you out of the pearly great price the fourth of the four scriptures

01:11:28

This comes from Joseph Smith history chapter 1 and it's Joseph Smith the founder of the

01:11:34

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints Talking about his first vision supposedly had he had when he was 14 years of age and he was out in a field basically in upstate,

01:11:46

New York and This is what God told him when Heavenly Father and Jesus appeared to him above him

01:11:53

It's a he asked which of all the churches he should join verse 19 I was answered that I must join none of them for they were all wrong and the personage who addressed me said all their creeds all their teachings were an

01:12:08

Abomination in his sight that those professors or pastors were all corrupt that they draw near to me with their lips

01:12:15

But their hearts are from far from me They teach for doctrines the commandments of men having a form of godliness

01:12:23

But they deny the power thereof and then in verse 20 It says he again forbade me to join with any of them

01:12:31

Latane knows in earlier days that was very big and still is today every Latter -day

01:12:36

Saint knows Joseph Smith history chapter 1 They teach it from primary on that. This is the restored church they're told that we need to have a modern -day prophet the 17th prophet is is considered to be

01:12:49

God's spokesperson and Russell M. Nelson is doing a pretty good job of making himself out to be that spokesperson

01:12:56

So the the I realized for many Latter -day Saints, they don't like to talk that way In fact, they'll say you're just as much of a

01:13:03

Christian as they are But when you quote this and say well, what did God mean? Because that's not that's not me speaking

01:13:09

That's not Joseph Smith speaking. Supposedly that's God speaking that they were all wrong How does a

01:13:15

Latter -day Saint get beyond that the great apostasy? I believe is Is the reason why so many

01:13:22

Latter -day Saints say amongst themselves when there's problems? They'll say well if the church isn't true when they're talking about the

01:13:28

LDS Church if the church isn't true Then nothing else is how many times have you heard that?

01:13:33

Let's say we we hear that all the time Yeah, and and and the idea is none of them were true.

01:13:39

I'll let you come in and speak on that well When you have a church that claims that it alone can speak for God it alone can define doctrine and Not only can it do it with doctrine in the past But actually it's so contemporary that it's up -to -date when you believe you have that You wonder why anybody else would want anything lesser

01:14:05

You know you wonder why someone would want just a Bible when you've got all these other things including the teachings of the of the prophets and your own spirit led

01:14:16

Local leadership, and so yes absolutely I agree with you Well, we have a question from Grady a very faithful listener of iron trip and Zion radio very faithful financial supporter of our

01:14:30

Program as well and Grady says greetings sister and brothers

01:14:37

Eric I intend to purchase several of your books for our churches bookcases

01:14:43

Where's the best place to purchase these to benefit your ministry? Also the elder that planted our church is also named

01:14:52

Eric Johnson And I want to get him an autographed copy is that possible in? Micah's book he commented about the number of Christians who criticized instead of showing the love of Christ to Mormons Do you see or hear this often, and I'm assuming when he refers to Micah.

01:15:12

He's talking about Michael Wilder author of Passport to heaven also a friend of my co -host

01:15:19

Dr.. Latane C. Scott, but if you could answer all of those questions, and if you need a reminder of what they were

01:15:26

I can Reread them well, yeah, let me just deal with the last question there

01:15:32

And I'll go backwards Ephesians chapter 4 says that we as Christians are supposed to speak the truth in love

01:15:38

It says in 1st Peter chapter 3 verses 15 and 16 We're supposed to always have an answer for everyone who asks us to give the reason for the hope we have

01:15:46

But do this with gentleness and respect if you are out to win an argument

01:15:52

You you were in the wrong business here of evangelism I think Latane would agree with me on this

01:15:58

Stop stop trying to share your faith because if you're just wanting to win the argument

01:16:04

You're gonna lose the war and I think that they're gonna know us by our love and our concern See if a

01:16:09

Latter -day Saint is a victim, and I believe they are Of this church, and it's leaders who

01:16:14

I think are corrupt Then we will have compassion for them that will want to love them to the

01:16:20

Lord so definitely We don't want to come across I don't want my books to be used as as something that can be

01:16:30

Used to slap somebody around that I don't want that information to be used that way if you're gonna use it that way Please don't use my material do it because you care for Mormons There are great people that there there are

01:16:41

I hate to say good because no one is good The Bible says but at the same time They are kind and loving people and I have had so many friends over the years who are

01:16:51

Latter -day Saints part of my wife's Family is Latter -day Saint as well. So so I want to see them saved.

01:16:57

I don't want to see them Beaten over with with the with the material we have as far as where you get the book

01:17:03

You can go to our website introducing Christianity comm which takes you to our website

01:17:09

Morgue but there it tell it has links to the four places you can get it.

01:17:15

Thank you. He can certainly order it from us Mrm .org But the first link on introducing

01:17:21

Christianity comm will take you to our website you he can he can buy those I think we're selling for $18 include shipping

01:17:27

Amazon comm Christian book Comm Barnes & Noble comm those are all places that are carrying this book

01:17:35

And so yeah, I think it's a great idea he wants to put them into the church bookshelves I'm hoping that Christians will read this book and have that desire to want to share their faith in a constructive manner

01:17:47

Not just there's not a whole lot here on Mormonism I'll have to be honest if you want to know more about Mormonism go to our book

01:17:53

Mormonism 101 I give you just enough to help you know where you're at But then how do you share

01:17:59

Christianity and I do that in the ten chapters by bringing out real life stories

01:18:04

Evangelism stories that I've been involved with in my life and I try to use that story to show you how you can use this

01:18:10

Information I have charts in there. I have Lots of citations from different people.

01:18:15

This is not really my book I cite the Bible more times than not and then I'm using three different systematic theologies

01:18:22

I'm using dozens and dozens of different Christian writers to make the point of what Christianity was and I'm gonna tell you

01:18:28

Chris This book I was a little fearful of they say I'm gonna tell you you're gonna be able to to give an amen to this

01:18:35

It's like giving birth to a baby when you write a book all the ups and all the downs and everything that's going on and then the fear is when you give the birth that people are gonna call your baby ugly and that's

01:18:48

That was my fear because I'm dealing with doctrine here this book deals with doctrine and that's for somebody like yourself

01:18:57

Chris That's I mean you you're very set on what you believe in you should be you've studied the scriptures and then

01:19:03

I've got you and then I've got this guy over here on another end And so that was my fear so far books only been out for a couple of weeks so far

01:19:10

I haven't had a lot of criticism saying well my goodness. That's heresy So that was a big thing with me is

01:19:17

I wanted to be so careful I had lots of people reading this over the publisher put a lot of energy into this

01:19:23

The whole project took two years for it to come out, but I think it's a book to have on a bookshelf in the church

01:19:29

But also I'm hoping that this Chris will be a book that people will feel The confident that they could handle a

01:19:36

Latter -day Saint. They might not like the title I already talked about that what am I supposed to call this book? But if they would want to know what

01:19:42

Christianity has to offer I think what I've done is give you the essential issues in a way that is understandable for the average layperson by the way

01:19:50

I just have to insert in here since we've been talking a lot of about a lot of deep and heavy stuff a joke

01:19:56

That's something that you said that reminded me of Rodney Dangerfield, he said oh,

01:20:01

I was so ugly when I was born whoo when the doctor saw me he slapped my mother And you do a good impression but anyway great

01:20:12

Grady Specifically asked if he could get autographed copies of your book Have him order it from our ministry now.

01:20:21

I'll be honest When he so he'll do it with PayPal have him buy it off of our ministry

01:20:27

And if he does that in the next couple of days I can get that out to him I am going to be out of the country

01:20:33

October 1 through 16 So if he would do that in the next day or two order from our website I tell you what if he has any problems with that he can contact me my email is eric eric eric at Mrm .org

01:20:46

and if he has any problems getting in there, but have him order that put a note on there I'd like these autograph or at least one or whatever

01:20:53

He's asking for and I can certainly do that before I leave on Saturday and Grady since you have

01:20:59

Contributed financially so many times to iron trip and Zion radio. We do have your mailing address on file in Asheboro, North Carolina and You are getting a free copy of this book

01:21:11

Introducing Christianity to Mormons by Eric Johnson. Thanks to the generosity of Harvest House publishers and also

01:21:18

Thanks to the generosity of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVVBS .com

01:21:23

Who will ship that book out to you at no charge to you or to us? We have an anonymous listener

01:21:33

Who says I am remaining anonymous because I have friends with whom

01:21:38

I am dialoguing About Mormonism they happen to be members of the

01:21:44

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints and I was wondering in your opinion

01:21:49

Should we be sticking more with the Bible and what it truly teaches about Jesus Christ in the gospel when we have

01:21:57

Conversations with Mormons or how much of our conversations should be involving the false teachings of Mormons I'm gonna answer this and I'm gonna ask

01:22:07

Latane for her opinion. Maybe she agrees with me Maybe she doesn't the Secret Service Studies the real bill as the primary focus as to what is a real bill.

01:22:17

They know all the different tests How many tests are there? I think there's like 17 tests to determine if that hundred is a real bill

01:22:24

I was just at a play and out from the sky It was a play having to do with Called lucky stiff and all these fake $100 bills came in and if I were to show it to you you would think it's a real bill

01:22:35

But you can you can look in the light. It doesn't work So you need to know the original but I'm gonna say this if you don't know the counterfeit

01:22:43

Then it won't do you any good as much as you know The the right thing it won't do you any good to try to share with the

01:22:49

Latter -day Saint because you're gonna talk past each other If you're not understanding what their language is, you've got to learn the language you get you have to understand when they say

01:22:58

Grace that this is God's enabling power to keep the commandments. Well, that's not what the grace is

01:23:03

That's on the original so you got to know that that counterfeit. Would you agree with me on that Latane?

01:23:09

In fact, Eric in your book you offer two questions Which I think are very very helpful when you start a conversation with a

01:23:16

Mormon you ask These two questions and I'll quote them one of them is what do you believe about such -and -such and Get that because I think a lot of Christians want to jump in and want to operate on what they think they know

01:23:30

And they think that a Mormon may believe without actually letting the Mormons say I believe this and then the second question is what do you?

01:23:39

mean when you say use the term so It's been my experience that if you

01:23:48

Don't go on the offensive first if you ask clarifying questions a lot of Animosity and hard feelings and Misunderstandings are precluded if you ask first what they believe and how they use the terms

01:24:05

Then you have a basis to work off of and of course, it's really Maybe Eric doesn't have this problem, but I want to write down what they say so that I can come back

01:24:13

You know and next that's kind of intimidating to people. So I try not to do that. But Those are two great questions that you had in your book

01:24:21

Eric and thank you And I would say back to you on that Latane is nothing I said this earlier.

01:24:28

Nothing is original in my book. It's it's my life of experience and having taught Theology at 11th grade

01:24:34

Christian school level because I taught for 17 years in Southern, California I was Bible Department head of a large

01:24:39

Christian school being able to communicate that way I think it's helped me a lot But I think that if we don't understand that language and we we end up Messing things up royally rather than just letting the person

01:24:56

Telling us what they believe I got that from the book tactics by Greg Koukl who talks about the

01:25:02

Colombo tactic There's just one more thing. I'm not an impressionist as Chris, but you know

01:25:08

Peter Faulk I love if you remember that old -time show are all of our Gen Gen X listeners are going who in the world is

01:25:16

Columbo I would I would I would swear RC Sproul very often was doing a Colombo imitation

01:25:22

Yeah, well, I mean I mean I used I use other people's material in my book to say listen

01:25:28

I've used this material for years. Here's what's worked for me and Asking them what it is.

01:25:35

They believe instead of telling them as you just said Latane is so very important Never assuming what they believe let them tell you and what

01:25:43

Koukl says is you're you're letting You're letting yourself become Offensive rather than playing defense all the time

01:25:51

What though let the atheists and the and the agnostics and the Mormons let them do some answering

01:25:56

They always want us to be the Bible answer man Well, we want to thank the anonymous listener for sending in a question

01:26:02

And if you email me your full name and mailing address You have also won a free copy of introducing

01:26:09

Christianity to Mormons by Eric Johnson Compliments of harvest house publishers and compliments of CV bbs .com

01:26:17

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service We have another anonymous listener

01:26:23

Who says in your educated opinion? Do you believe that because of all the leftism that seems to be accepted by modern -day

01:26:33

Mormons? They are going to be heading for a church split And I'll start with Eric and perhaps if Latane has any of her own ideas she can chime in as well

01:26:45

Well, let me say in 2012. There was a survey done by Mormon stories John Dillon very popular atheistic

01:26:54

Podcaster who used to be Latter -day Saint and the survey basically found That the main reasons the top ten reasons why people are leaving had to do with doctrine

01:27:04

Had to do with history of the church now This is before what are they called the gospel topics essays were produced by the

01:27:12

LDS Church from the year 2013 to the year 2015 in those 13 essays the church admitted to things that the internet knew already

01:27:20

Latane had talked about that earlier. They They they admitted that Joseph Smith had between 30 and 40 wives

01:27:27

We know if we knew that from before a third of his wives were Married to living husbands as polyandry a third of his wives were teenagers as young as 14

01:27:35

They admitted to that they admitted that Joseph Smith used a seer stone and a hat to translate the

01:27:41

Book of Mormon those were those were Pretty heady issues and I I have a story in chapter 10 of an 80 year old and hit excuse me

01:27:50

Yeah He was 80 and his wife was 80 and they left the church and I tell us about my

01:27:55

Communication with them as they came into Sandra Tanner's bookstore in a day that I was volunteering saying they no longer believed in Joseph Smith Because of those things but I'm gonna say there was another book published

01:28:05

It's called the next Mormons by Jana Reese And I'm sure you guys might be familiar with that book

01:28:10

If not, you ought to get it the next Mormons by Jana Reese a Mormon blogger. She is published by Oxford So this is a scholarly book, but she did all paid a lot of money to do to do surveys

01:28:23

What she discovered the top ten reasons the number eight was the top

01:28:28

Doctrinal or historical issue the ones that were before that the church no longer fit. I don't know if I can trust these men anymore the

01:28:36

I'll tell you the feminism issue and the and the idea that Homosexuality is no law is still not allowed in the

01:28:45

Mormon Church those two I'm gonna say increasing in the last three years even since she's done this because there's a lot of feminists who want the priesthood

01:28:52

There's a lot of feminists who want to pray to Heavenly Mother They're not allowed to have those things as far as the homosexuality

01:28:59

LGBTQ plus A lot of people are leaving because of that I just talked to somebody last month a woman who had just left a couple months before and That makes it hard when

01:29:11

I asked the reason why why did you leave the church? What's the reason she says? Oh because of the LGBTQ plus that puts me in a difficult spot

01:29:19

I'd rather they say a doctrinal issue or a historical issue or say I found out it wasn't true anymore rather than to use a

01:29:26

Social issue is it leading to a split? I don't know I'm not a prophet in that sense, but there certainly is a lot of division especially here in Utah Provo Where BYU is located they have all kinds of things happening and just in the last month

01:29:42

We had an apostle go over there and try to lay down a law and they're just rebelling over it at the church run

01:29:49

BYU Brigham Young University, so we'll see what happens But it's something that the church probably just needs to deal with better Lutane.

01:29:56

Did you have something to add on that? well traditionally you went to church in a

01:30:02

Mormon Ward according to the geography of where you lived in a town and Not and we're just kind of a foreign idea for many

01:30:11

Christians, but now people are selecting Wards According to their interests and it is my understanding and Eric probably has more first -hand

01:30:21

Experience with this than I do living in Utah, but there are entire wards that are basically

01:30:30

LGBTQ all the alphabet of Sexuality and they run the they run the the the services the the church services

01:30:42

In a way that favors that and welcomes people with different sexual orientations

01:30:50

So that's kind of a new thing. I think for Mormons Yeah is to think that you would actually choose where you go to church

01:30:59

Which means you choose your leadership and your brothers and sisters, which has not been the way it's been traditionally, you know

01:31:05

But I have a question for Eric and and it's kind of a do we have time

01:31:10

Chris for my question to him Yes, we do Okay. Well, I had discussed this before we went on the air, but one question.

01:31:18

I think a lot of people have about Mormonism Is something that I would like to help with but I want your opinion if somebody asks you is

01:31:28

Mormonism a cult How would you answer that? We actually talked about that in chapter one of our book answering

01:31:33

Mormons questions the first question we dealt with it right away Because it's often brought out and the question goes like this.

01:31:41

Why won't you accept Mormons as Christians? Do you think we're a cult? Here's our response.

01:31:46

We and that book that was published back in 2013 with Kregel we have response questions and so we have three questions before the one

01:31:55

I'm going to give you and And I don't like to by the way to bring up the word cult Again I don't bring out.

01:32:01

Well, you're not a Christian either. I don't I don't want to start an argument Maybe before I have a chance to start talking, but if they ask that question, which is rare Why do you think people assume that your religion is a cult?

01:32:14

I like that question if that got brought up to me because Let them tell you well, they say that you know

01:32:21

We believe in polygamy or whatever else and then you could go from there find out where they're at Why did you bring that question to me because I never called you a cult.

01:32:29

I'll never use that term at all Well, the reason I asked that is I'd like to offer a resource to Chris's audience

01:32:39

I've actually put together part of a book that I want to publish called why we left the cult that was

01:32:47

Published quite a while ago by Baker book house, but I've extracted that and given the characteristics of Pseudo -christian cults and without Specifying Mormonism.

01:32:59

I mean there are lots of groups that can be considered Pseudo -christian cults in other words, they use the terminology of Christianity They may use the same they may use the

01:33:09

Bible or misuse the Bible or whatever But yeah, if anybody would like a free copy of that e -book

01:33:15

Which I think would be very helpful if anyone is interested in that they can get it by writing or going to latane .com

01:33:24

l -a -t -a -y -n -e dot com forward slash cults C -u -l -t -s and so that's just a little bonus or gift.

01:33:34

I'd like to to offer Chris's listeners and Also, if Eric has any use for it absolutely my pleasure for him to use it as well

01:33:43

But I don't want to take attention away from how useful and helpful

01:33:49

Eric's book is Because it is so detailed and so well organized so that you can find the information that you need either by looking in the glossary or looking in the table of contents or looking in the

01:34:04

The descriptions that you don't have to search around like you do in a lot of other books.

01:34:09

So I really want to Emphasize that. Thank you. I'd like to also give a plug to the ministry of a very dear friend of mine

01:34:18

Pastor Jason Wallace of Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna, Utah He has created a very professional

01:34:27

Documentary on video called an earnest plea to Latter -day Saints, which can be found at LDS video

01:34:36

LDS video and I am not only plugging this because yours truly Chris Arntzen Does the voiceovers for a number of people in the documentary including

01:34:48

Brigham Young But even if I was not a part of that Documentary in that way, it's really magnificent and I strongly urge you to take advantage of it.

01:34:56

It's free LDS video But anyway before I go to the break the final break do either of you have anything that you want to Say before you forget it and then we'll move on to our final chapter in this

01:35:12

I yield to Eric. He's he's the He's the the expert on this show, and I I really appreciate it

01:35:20

No, I don't have anything to add right now. So maybe somebody has some more questions out there on the next half hour

01:35:26

I have a quick question for you Eric I see a Native American hanging on or should say a painting of a

01:35:33

Native American hanging on the wall And which Which of the

01:35:39

Lost Tribes of Israel is that Native American from that that is there a

01:35:44

Lamanite? one of the two people groups now my grandfather Was a very accomplished artist and so it's one of the paintings

01:35:53

I have from him and well It just happens to be in my office. And so I aim my camera back there and sometimes when

01:36:00

I'm cropped I that's not shown but you get a view of it Yeah it's one of my favorites because I've had that since I was a boy one of these days if I ever am given the

01:36:10

Opportunity to have a conversation with Mel Brooks I would like to ask him if he knew about the connection to Native Americans and Mormonism in a movie some

01:36:22

Cowboys encounter Some Native Americans on horseback and the chief begins to speak to them in Yiddish, which is

01:36:30

Mel Brooks But anyway, just dying to find out if he did that as a spoof of what

01:36:35

Mormons believe about Native Americans But we're going to our final break right now. If you'd like to have a question asked or answered

01:36:44

Asked and answered send it in immediately because we're rapidly running out of time Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

01:36:50

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com As always give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence only remain anonymous

01:36:58

If your question involves a personal and private matter, we'll be right back. Don't go away Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth co -host of Fox and Friends weekend.

01:37:07

Now. I don't have to tell you but American education It's in a freefall crumbling under the weight of a century of damage inflicted upon America's academic system

01:37:16

The answer it's called classical Christian education a form of K through 12 ed that's very distinct from the type of education most

01:37:25

Americans have received myself included and That's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian Academy to talk about this wonderful growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education

01:37:40

It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York I'll also be signing copies of my

01:37:48

New York Times best -selling book battle for the American mind for the first 50 guests starting at 6 p .m

01:37:54

Now this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education at a time when it is

01:38:01

So desperately needed so please come ready to give and to learn But a way to stimulate academic revival in our great country

01:38:10

You can purchase tickets for the event by visiting G Cali GC a li .com

01:38:15

and following the link to the gala event. I hope to see you there Satan is the father of lies and spin and the mother of those lies is a government who has rejected

01:38:32

God We have especially been lied to these last two years and the kovat panic has been one of the central

01:38:37

Mechanisms that our government has used to lie to us and grab more power because Christians have not been reading their

01:38:43

Bibles We are susceptible to lies and are weak in our ability to fight these lies God has given us his word to fight

01:38:50

Satan and his lies and we need to recover all of God's Word It's serrated edge and all

01:38:56

Mark your calendars for October 6th through 8th as we fight laugh and feast to the glory of God in Knoxville, Tennessee You'll be enlightened edified encouraged and challenged by 10 speakers on the theme lies

01:39:10

Propaganda storytelling and the serrated edge covering various topics that address the burning issues facing the church in the world today

01:39:18

Speakers include pastor Doug Wilson of Christ Church of Moscow, Idaho and the whole gang at the cross politics show and podcast for details visit

01:39:29

FLFnetwork .com that's F for fight L for laugh F for feast

01:39:35

FLFnetwork .com see you there October 6th through 8th in Knoxville, Tennessee I'm dr.

01:39:49

Joseph Piper President emeritus and professor of systematic and applied theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary Every Christian who's serious about the deformed faith and the

01:40:02

Westminster Standards Should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the

01:40:08

Westminster larger catechism titled Authentic Christianity by dr. Joseph more craft.

01:40:14

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism It is a thoroughly researched work utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic

01:40:25

Theology Dr. Moore craft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia And I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation

01:40:37

For details on the eight -volume commentary go to Westminster commentary calm

01:40:43

Westminster commentary calm for details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia Visit Heritage Presbyterian Church calm

01:40:52

Heritage Presbyterian Church calm Please tell dr. Moore craft and the

01:40:58

Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia That dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you

01:41:07

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01:46:10

Hello, my name is Anthony Vino Pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and also the host of the reform rookie comm website

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I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the iron sharpens iron radio show like I do You can now find it on the

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So don't waste your time with fluff or fake news Subscribe to the iron sharpens iron radio podcast right now

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And while you're at it You can also sign up for the reform rookie comm podcast and visit our website and the

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01:47:15

From Keach's Catechism and the doctrines of grace to the Olivet Discourse and the book of Leviticus the reformed rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth and Finally if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689

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London Baptist Confession of Faith Please join us at hope reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York again.

01:47:38

I'm pastor Anthony video and thanks for listening As Host of iron sharpens iron radio.

01:47:54

I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is

01:48:03

Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey Pastored by Alan Dunn Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's

01:48:10

God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world

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They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

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God in spirit and truth Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

01:48:28

God -centered focus reading preaching and hearing the Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs

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Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy and sobriety

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Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at GC BC and J dot squarespace .com

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That's GC BC and J dot squarespace .com or call them at nine zero eight nine nine six

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Seven six five four that's nine zero eight nine nine six Seven six five four tell

01:49:08

Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on iron sharpens iron radio Welcome back.

01:49:21

We have another anonymous listener who says I have a friend who thinks he's an evangelical

01:49:28

Often shows up at evangelical functions but he is actually a member of an our

01:49:35

LDS Church the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, which today goes by the name the community of Christ I keep telling him that he is in a cult and he refuses to acknowledge that fact saying that there is far too much difference from this church than the

01:49:53

Mormons and He also says he believes in Every evangelical tenant that I do.

01:50:00

What can you say about the our LDS now called the community of Christ? how different is it from the official

01:50:07

LDS Church and How much concern should I have over this brother's soul?

01:50:14

Well, I think there should be a lot of concern no doubt the reorganized Latter -day

01:50:19

Saint Church later became known as the community of Christ Stayed behind while Brigham Young took the people out of Nauvoo, Illinois in 1846 and and The actual ancestors of Joseph Smith became the leaders

01:50:35

I was just in Nauvoo this past summer in July and we sat down for an hour and a half with an apostle of The community of Christ and I'll tell you right off the top.

01:50:44

They are not an evangelical Christian organization They if you want to liken them to anything, they're not any closer to Mormonism than they are evangelical

01:50:53

Christianity. I would call them a cross between New Age and liberal

01:50:59

Protestant Christianity Like a Methodist Church or different kinds of churches that are out there.

01:51:05

I think I would I would deal with every individual as they come

01:51:10

I would ask the questions that we're talking about earlier Latane and I were talking about You know, what do you believe about blank?

01:51:19

And and get them to define things because for them Doctrine is not as important as it would be for the evangelical

01:51:27

Christian. I like to ask the question What does it say in first John chapter 5 verse 13?

01:51:33

Well, it says that That we may know we have eternal life I'll ask the person whether it's

01:51:40

Latter -day Saint whether it's a member of the community of Christ or anybody I think it's a it's a wonderful tactic to say if you were to die right now

01:51:47

Would you end up in the very best that God has for us heaven and get them to explain?

01:51:53

Yes, or no, and if they say yes, oftentimes they're gonna say well Why should you be allowed in and they'll say oftentimes?

01:52:01

Well, I'm a good person. I'm doing the best I can I'm trying well, those are admirable Latter -day Saints like to say that all the time, but Sin means that you have to have a record of perfection

01:52:11

The only way that you can receive perfection is not based on what you can do Salvation by grace through faith after all you can do.

01:52:20

It's not based on your work. It is based on work It's based on the work of Jesus. He's the one who said it is finished

01:52:27

He's the one who imputed his righteousness into your account based on faith and faith alone

01:52:33

A community of Christ member does not have that assurance does not believe in faith alone

01:52:39

I've talked to community Christ members who are even atheistic in their mindset So so if he comes from that brand,

01:52:45

I would I would deal specifically with just asking those kinds of questions I think you can have a productive conversation, but what would you say on that?

01:52:54

Well, you have to remember that That the RLDS or community of Christ Church does believe in the story of Joseph Smith and Or does it does their churches organized around that concept that that that happened?

01:53:10

But what is when you can't believe? Something that didn't happen you can sign it to myth

01:53:17

Which means that they have tended in my opinion to consign the Bible to myth as well

01:53:23

And so your your assessment that they are like many liberal churches where there are good principles in these things

01:53:30

But they don't necessarily have to be factually or historically true They had they had to go that route because they like the

01:53:39

Mormon Church to no longer contend that the things that Joseph Smith said were accurate and And valid in terms of what happened in his historical life

01:53:50

Etc. The other thing is their their claim for authority their claim for authority for this for a church on earth is

01:54:01

Ancestral as you said It goes through the descendants of Joseph Smith and I Eric you can tell me this

01:54:08

Haven't they kind of reached the end of the road on that? Yeah, they stopped about 20 years ago Yeah, where the last the last descendant died and then then what could they do?

01:54:17

Well, it no longer became essential that to have that as a mark of their trueness of being the true

01:54:25

Mormon Church or the true LDL DS Church because they no longer have a descendant of Joseph Smith to carry on so it's been a difficult road for them.

01:54:35

I I think of all of the iterations of Mormonism I think they've tried harder to appear

01:54:43

Christian with just a little Joseph Smith on the side and Now they're in a worse

01:54:50

Situation than even the Mormon Church, they don't have the funds. They don't have the influence They don't have a lot of things that the

01:54:56

Mormon has church house. They also don't have the society or the community Worldwide, I mean you can go anywhere if you're

01:55:03

Mormon like I when I was in college my car broke down in Moab What did I do? I called the

01:55:08

Mormon Bishop, of course, they helped me You know, I don't think that's at all the case with the community of Christ just because of their few numbers and then in fact if you go to the iron sharpens iron radio website iron sharpens iron radio dot -com if you type in RLDS in the search engine you will be able to hear some interviews.

01:55:29

I did with former RLDS members and Unless my memory is shaky.

01:55:35

I'm pretty sure that an interesting fact to throw in about them Is that one of the reasons why the

01:55:42

LDS do not use? The Joseph Smith Bible is because the

01:55:47

RLDS owns the copyright on it. Am I am I right on that? Yeah, that's what they say but You know

01:55:55

They have article 8 Joseph Smith came up with 13 articles of faith article 8 says that the

01:56:01

Bible is true as far as it is Translated correctly. That's a misnomer. I talked about it in the first two chapters of my book

01:56:08

Introducing Christianity to Mormons, but Joseph Smith did complete Quote -unquote translation

01:56:14

He just took the King James and he changed words and added things to it including half a chapter at the end of Genesis Predicting the

01:56:21

Joseph the seer predicted him coming It's a terrible quote -unquote translation.

01:56:27

I don't even like to use that word, but it's Joseph Smith translation He finished it in 1833 And by the way, the church uses it in its notes in the four volumes that it puts together it's called the quad and the notes all come from the

01:56:41

Inspired version or the Joseph Smith translation, even though they don't use it officially So they still use it and they cite it almost every month in the

01:56:48

Liahona magazine their official church magazine Wow Well, I'm assuming that they have to pay royalties the

01:56:54

RLDS. I don't know that for a fact, but Well, we are now out of time and I thoroughly enjoyed every moment of our interview today

01:57:04

I know that I would like both of you back on the program I want to make sure that our listeners have all the information that they need for both of you

01:57:15

First of all, if you want to get in touch with the organization that Eric Johnson represents

01:57:22

Mormonism research ministry just go to mrm .org

01:57:27

Mrm .org and Dr. Latane C Scott if you want to find out more about her and The latest in her activities and writings go to latane .com

01:57:41

and that's L -a -t -a -y -n -e Calm and Eric.

01:57:47

Do you have any final words briefly that you'd like to tell our listeners? Well, I just wish

01:57:52

I had a name where I could put eric .com That's I sure appreciate having you and Latane Interview me on this.

01:58:02

I I think this is going to be a valuable book. I appreciate your kind words you both have said and To God be all the glory

01:58:09

I'd be the glory well Latane do you have any final words as well?

01:58:16

Latane calm forward slash cults Great. Well, I want to thank everybody who listened today

01:58:24

Especially those who took the time to write in questions. I Want you all

01:58:30

I ask of you all to please pray for iron truck and Zion radio as we are facing some very serious financial struggles and Asked me to pray for me personally as well.

01:58:42

I looking forward to Hearing from all of you out there in my listening audience with questions for our guests in the days to come and look forward to seeing you

01:58:53

At my next event whatever that event may be With such a joy to meet many of you for the first time at the iron trip and Zion radio pastors luncheon as well as rekindle old friendships and Even meet many of you for the first time at the debate that dr.

01:59:10

James are white engaged in this past Saturday, I can never

01:59:16

Thank you folks enough who listen to this program who approached me when you see me in public Especially when

01:59:21

I'm manning an exhibitors booth. I can never thank you enough For the comfort and encouragement you give me by letting me know how much iron sharpens iron radio

01:59:31

Means to you and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater