September 27, 2022 Show with Eric Johnson on “Introducing Christianity to Mormons”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with

your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of

humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at

ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

27th day of September 2022.

I am thrilled to have a first -time guest today.

His name is Eric Johnson, and he works with Mormonism Research Ministry,

and I'll be introducing him momentarily.

But since I didn't have time to do so yesterday, since we had three guests on

and didn't really have much time to give you all a report, a praise report,

but my pastor's luncheon last Thursday, the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free pastor's luncheon that I

have biannually, this time featuring Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega

Ministries, was absolutely magnificent.

Praise be to God.

We had the largest turnout ever.

Approximately 200 men were there.

And I keep getting reports, praise reports, from the men in attendance on how

they were blessed in extraordinary ways.

And what makes it even more amazing is that Dr. White didn't even know what he was going to

speak on until he sat down on the ledge of the

platform there in the sanctuary of Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, and began

opening up his heart about how his experiences as a hospital chaplain

groomed him for superior abilities to

labor in pastoral ministry.

He had experienced things as a hospital chaplain that he had never before experienced

and gone through trials with families that he had never faced before.

And very much of that content is included in his book, Grieving

Our Path Back to Peace.

That was magnificent.

The debate that he had with Dr. Peter Van Cleek, also at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania,

on the theme, the textus receptus as the word of God is equal to the New Testament

autographs, Dr. White was opposing that thesis, Dr. Peter Van Cleek was defending it.

That was a great success as well.

We had a very good turnout for that, and he spoke at two other churches,

and those were excellent events, and everything was finalized by him

preaching at the Sunday morning service at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, and I loved being in

attendance and things.

So all of those events should be available on YouTube, and we will get you more detailed

information in the days, I hope that many of you, if not all of you listening, will

take advantage of those resources.

But as I was saying, today we have for the first time on the program Eric Johnson, who works with Mormonism Research Ministry,

and has written and co -authored several books, including Answering Mormons' Questions,

Mormonism 101, and Sharing the Good News with Mormons.

Today we are addressing his latest book, Introducing Christianity to Mormons, a Practical

and Comparative Guide to What the Bible Teaches, and that features a

foreword by someone who's been a guest on this program, Micah Wilder, a former Mormon who is

a convert to Christianity by the grace and mercy of God.

We discussed his book, Passport to Heaven, in the past on this program, but it's my honor and privilege to

welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Triple Zion Radio, Eric Johnson.

Thanks for having me on, Chris, I appreciate it.

I am also thrilled to have a returning guest, somebody who I have had the privilege,

the great privilege and honor, to call my friend going back to the late 1980s, early 90s,

even before I had my own program, as an account executive for WMCA Radio, which

is a part of the Salem Media Network of radio stations, the largest radio,

the largest Christian radio network in the world.

While working there as an account executive in the 90s and early 2000s, I was able to book

Dr. Latane C. Scott as a guest on their in -house talk show, Andy Anderson

Live, which was originally called Talk New York.

And then, after departing WMCA and launching my own show, I've had the privilege of interviewing

her a number of times.

She is a former Mormon and convert to Christianity, and the author of The Mormon Mirage, a former

member of Looks at the Mormon Church Today, and quite a number of other books as well.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Triple Zion Radio as a co -host, once again.

Dr. Latane C. Scott.

Oh, it's always a privilege, Chris.

Thank you so much for inviting me.

Oh, it's my pleasure to have you on, sister.

And Eric, please tell our listeners about Mormonism Research Ministry.

Well, it's a ministry that started in 1979.

Bill McKeever founded that, and he's today still the leader, the president of Mormonism

Research Ministry.

We used to live in California.

Bill moved to Utah in 2004.

I followed him in 2010.

And today, we have a podcast of our own that we've been doing since 2011 called Viewpoint on

Mormonism, and that can be found at mrm .org slash podcast.

We're on six different radio stations.

This past month, we added a station in Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii.

We're pretty excited about that.

We have a website, mrm .org, that has many different articles.

We get about 1 ,600, 1 ,700 hits a day, and so a lot of people go there for information on

Mormonism.

And we have a two -fold purpose.

The first objective we have is to share our faith with Latter -day Saints being in Utah.

We have plenty of opportunity to do that.

And then secondarily, we also want to share with Christians what Mormonism really is and how

they can be effective in talking to their Latter -day Saint friends and family members.

Well, I want to also thank a really heartfelt

demonstration of gratitude to your publisher, Harvest House Publishers.

They donated 100 copies of your book, Introducing Christianity to

Mormons, to my recent pastor's luncheon.

And I know that they should come in very handy because there are quite a lot of Mormons around here

in the south -central Pennsylvania area, much to my surprise after moving here.

And I just want to thank them again for being so generous and providing these.

And Eric, I'll be sure to let you know if I begin to hear back from some of these men with praise

reports about your book.

That's great. I appreciate it.

And we have a custom here, we have a tradition here on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, whenever we have a first -time guest, we

have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the

kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which you were raised, the kind of providential circumstances

our Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you.

So please, if you could, give us a summary of your salvation story.

Well, I grew up in a Christian home, actually, specifically denominational -wise, a Lutheran church.

And when I was 10 years old, I was watching Billy Graham in 1972 at a crusade.

And when everybody came forward at the end, as they always would do at the Billy Graham crusades, I asked my parents what they

were doing.

And they said, well, they were inviting Jesus into their heart.

And I asked my parents, is that something that I have done?

And they said, well, I don't know, have you?

And so I knelt right there and prayed and asked Jesus to be a part of my life

officially, although I had faith before that time.

And then it was a few years later, 1978, Jim Jones had

brought a bunch of people down to Guyana, and he was supposed to be some kind of a Christian

pastor, but he had a thousand people drink cyanide -laced Kool -Aid.

That really threw me for a loop.

And after that time, I decided I wanted to make sure that I was owning my own faith and not just borrowing my parents'

faith.

So I did a lot of research, reading the scriptures of different religions.

And people came to the door, inviting them into a conversation and talking to Hare

Christians and others out at San Diego State, taking world religion classes.

Those are the kinds of things that I really wanted to understand what they believed.

So that kind of got me started in comparing what I believed to be true with what other people believed.

And then in 1987, I ended up coming to Utah, having done some work with Mormons before,

and I really fell in love with the Mormon people.

That's why I settled on this kind of ministry, meeting Bill McKeever in 1989, and

have been involved with that ministry ever since.

Well, praise God.

Tell us why, in the 21st century,

when we have a lot of books written about Mormonism

that fill the shelves of the rare

Christian bookstore that still exists, or the websites of

Christian book distributors.

Why did you say to yourself, you know, there's a lot of great books out there,

but I think there is need for at least one more?

And the idea of introducing Christianity to Mormons, a practical and comparative guide to what

the Bible teaches, why did that come to your mind, and why did you believe that this

was something that should be included among the other resources that Christians already have available?

Trust me, Chris, I wasn't looking to write another book.

I've written other books, and I kind of thought maybe I was done with all the ideas that I had.

But in August of 2020, my youngest daughter, Hannah, came into the office where I'm sitting right now

and asked me for a book to give to a co -worker who was a Latter -day Saint but left the church.

And we have to understand, they are leaving in droves.

You can vouch for that, I'm sure, that they have, in the last decade, just been leaving like

crazy.

And not going to our churches, our evangelical Christian churches, going to really nothing or racism.

But she asked me for this book, you're right, there are a lot of books.

One of my favorites is The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.

Great book, has some great chapters in the beginning, the first seven chapters having to do with the Bible and its reliability.

But as I looked through that book and others, they're all good books, but it didn't seem

like there was a book there that would really reach out to a Latter -day Saint who has the same

terminology, the same language that we as evangelical Christians use, but they have different meanings to them.

And those kinds of words are not described in any of those books that talk about basic Christianity.

I asked, I told my daughter, I said, you know, I think this is a book that needs to be written, but I said it innocently

enough and that afternoon as I'm mowing the grass, I thought to myself, I really need to write

this book because I think this will be a helpful book to, a lot of Latter -day Saints

claim to be Christian, but they don't understand what we as evangelical Christians do believe.

They have a lot of straw man arguments.

So when we use those terms like God, Jesus, salvation by grace through faith, they'll all say,

oh, I agree with those things.

But unless you can define what those things mean, it's not going to make any difference trying to

explain your faith to a Latter -day Saint.

I want to get rid of the stereotypes.

I want to get rid of the straw man arguments that Latter -day Saints use against our faith, such as the

Trinity.

Well, who was Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane is a common question you'll get, and that

misunderstands what the Trinity is.

Or salvation by grace and the idea that immortality is provided based on what we did

well in the pre -existence is what Mormonism teaches, that we lived in a previous life before this as spirit children of

God, of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

And so because we were born here, we were worthy because we did right.

But that's not true salvation in Mormonism.

It's not just immortality that all people get one of three kingdoms of glory.

It's actually exaltation or eternal life or celestial glory.

And that's by keeping all the commandments of God continually.

The unique LDS scriptures, and there are four of them, the King James Version, they have the Book of Mormon,

the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

And especially those unique three scriptures, the Book of Mormon is very clear on what

needs to be done.

Keep the commandments of God continually, and unless you do, where I am you cannot go, is

what God supposedly tells Emma Smith in Doctrine and Covenants 2515.

So in the short answer, this book is needed because I think Christians need to not so much

worry about getting them out of the church, they're leaving the church, but rather to help them understand

that they should not throw the baby out with the bathwater to provide a reasonable

alternative to Mormonism.

This is not just an alternative, this is the truth.

We believe that the Bible is true.

We believe that Jesus is a Savior, and I want to be, is the Savior, and we want to be able to provide that

to the Latter -day Saints.

Yeah, so you reminded me, okay, go ahead, LaTanya.

Your book, Introducing Christianity to Mormons, is really a good book, and I wanted to follow up on

one thing that you mentioned.

You said that we may be using the same terminologies, but meaning different things.

In your book, you gave a terrific example of that with the word mom.

I wonder if you would mind sharing that, because it's such a good, accessible example that you gave.

Yeah, and you know what?

This book, LaTanya, is not unique.

I copied from everybody.

I borrowed from all the different writers, scholars, and so this one, this story, I took from my friend Cory Miller,

who heads up a ministry called Ratio Christi, excellent ministry that is at the

colleges, and this is from his book, but this is what it says.

Many Mormons initially saw pedal differences until forced to admit them, so I try to engage them by

illustration.

Then he says, me, let me ask you a personal question.

Do you have a mom to the Latter -day Saint?

The Mormon smiles and will reply, yes, of course, and he says, I do, too.

Can you spell that?

The Mormon says, uh, M -O -M, me, no way.

I spell it the same way.

Maybe we have the same mom.

I ask, can you spell it backwards?

The Mormon says, M -O -M, me, and excitedly I blurt out, surely we have the

same mom because it is spelled the same.

Then he writes, upon further describing our respective moms, if hers is six foot tall

and mine only four feet tall, then they are two different moms.

One can then point out that while we all spell Christ and God the same way, the meanings aren't

necessarily the same.

I thought that was a great illustration, as you pointed out here, because what it's done is it says, yes, we,

if you go down the line, they'll agree with all the terms we believe in, but if you don't define what that term means, that's

our problem.

Yes, and in fact, a woman who is a Mormon responded

to the promotion of this interview saying that it was, and I'm paraphrasing what she said, but

she was basically saying it was ridiculous that we were even

discussing this subject.

She said that Jesus Christ is obviously the cornerstone of

the Church of Latter -day Saints, that is also further revealed in the very name,

the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, and so therefore it is absurd that we as Christians would make a

claim that we had to introduce Christianity to Mormons.

And I just simply responded to her, going along with the theme of what you are now saying,

that Mormons have very often the same vocabulary but a different dictionary, and I said

that Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the Latter -day Saints.

And why don't you now give some of, outline some of the very

basics as we start off this, the core issues that would separate

Mormonism from it.

Well, let me first bring up what you just mentioned.

The title of my book, Introducing Christianity to Mormons, is controversial, I suppose.

I didn't write it for the Latter -day Saints particularly, although I would love people to be able to give that book to the

Latter -day Saints, as I would hope my daughter could give to her friend.

But introducing Christianity is the first two words, and those are loaded terms, and I don't

suggest you go up to Latter -day Saints and say, you're not a Christian, oh yes we are, because you're going to get in this ping

pong match back and forth, and that's not going to do any good.

I never bring up that issue with Latter -day Saints and say, you're not a Christian, because they take that very sensitively.

But I'm going to say, and Latane, you can help me on this, 30 years ago, Latter -day Saints didn't want to be known

as Christians, they wanted to be known as Mormons.

Would you agree with that?

Oh yes, because they wanted a differentiation between what they saw as a restored

and complete Christianity, as opposed to what the Christian world had, which

was a deficient Christianity, because there'd been no authority on the earth for

Christianity for 1800 years.

So you're absolutely right about that.

Yeah, so in recent years we've seen where Christians seem to be something they want to hold on to.

So we have to understand, when that does come up, we have to explain, well we do have differences, we're not the same.

But then the idea that I would write, two Mormons, that is not supposed to be a term we're

allowed to use anymore, because the current prophet of the church, 98 -year -old

Russell M. Nelson, he's the 17th president of the church, he was

supposedly told by Jesus that he's offended when that is used to replace the Church of Jesus

Christ of Latter -day Saints, the official name of the church.

So they even had, I think it's great branding, that they took away.

LDS .org and Mormon .org, they said, well we're not going to use those anymore.

Even though for years, like for instance, 15th president Gordon B. Hinckley

in 1990 at a general conference said that Mormon means more good, and he said it was fine, they could call us

worse things, he said.

But Nelson says we're not allowed to use that anymore, so they actually took away those two website pages, and now it's called the

Church of Jesus Christ.

Churchofjesuschrist .org.

And you have to type in a lot more words, I cheat all the time, I'm probably making Jesus unhappy, but I put Mormon .org or

LDS .org to get to the website I want to get to.

But I ask the Latter -day Saints, well how am I supposed to title my book, in four words I can communicate to a Christian

audience, introducing Christianity to Mormons, and my supposed to say, introducing

Evangelical Christianity to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints.

That title would never have been accepted by Harvest House.

You ask Chris, what are some of those top issues, well what I do in the back of the book is I have an

appendix that is a glossary of terms, and so there are a number of

differences.

Who is God?

Mormonism believes that God has a body of flesh and bones, that God once lived in another realm as a human

being.

He could have been a sinner, he died, he became the God of this world.

That he worshipped a God before him, who was his Heavenly Father, and then that Heavenly

Father worshipped a God in infinite regression of the gods.

The God of Christianity says that I am the only God, there is no God before or after

me, Isaiah 43 .10, Isaiah 44 .6 and 8.

God doesn't know of any other gods, show them to me, he says, Psalm 90 verse 2, from

everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Very clearly the Bible says that God is our only God, and there are no others.

Another thing would be salvation, how does a person receive salvation, I alluded to it earlier.

According to Mormonism, they do believe in grace, and the way I distinguish this in my book and the appendix

is, for the Christian, we believe that it's unmerited favor from God provided to those who

place their trust in Jesus.

I tried to limit myself to one sentence, so hard to do, but that is what Christianity says,

unmerited because we didn't do anything to earn it.

Well Mormonism says, grace is God's enabling power provided by God to help a person

keep the commandments.

Do you see what was just done, they slipped a fast one in there, and what they're saying, that's right off of the church website, by the

way, God's enabling power for you to keep the commandments, because you're saved by grace after

all you can do.

That's what the Book of Mormon says in 2 Nephi 25 .23.

That's opposite of what the Bible teaches in Ephesians 2 .8 .9, that we're saved by grace through faith, it's

not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works lest any man should boast.

So just understanding the nuances of the differences that I've talked about here, I think will help

a person understand that at the heart of the matter, Mormonism denies or

distorts every fundamental teaching in the historic Christian church, period.

That's the truth.

And we have to go to our first break right now.

If you have a question for our guest today, Eric Johnson, send it in to

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints.

You are starting to question your own religion.

Some of the things that my guest and co -host, Dr. Latane C. Scott,

some of the things they're saying are beginning to make sense to you, perhaps, and you really don't want to draw

attention to your identity at this point since you are still a Mormon.

I can understand reasons like that would compel you to remain anonymous,

and others, of course.

But if it's just a general question on Mormonism, please give us your first name at least, your city and state

and country of residence.

I'll remind my guest and co -host that since you are on Microsoft Teams, you will

not be hearing the commercials, and we would remind you also that you say every

sound you make.

Will be.

So don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages.

Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth, co -host of Fox and Friends Weekend.

Now I don't have to tell you, but American education, it's in a free fall, crumbling under the weight of a century of

damage inflicted upon America's academic system.

The answer, it's called classical Christian education, a form of K -12 ed that's

very distinct from the type of education most Americans have received, myself included.

And that's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian

Academy to talk about this wonderful, growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education.

It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York.

I'll also be signing copies of my New York Times bestselling book, Battle for the American Mind, for the first 50

guests starting at 6 p .m.

Now, this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education at a time

when it is so desperately needed.

So please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our

great country.

You can purchase tickets for the event by visiting GCALI, G -C -A -L -I dot com

and following the link to the gala event.

I hope to see you there.

Satan is the father of lies and spin, and the mother of those lies is a government who has rejected

God.

We have especially been lied to these last two years, and the COVID panic has been one of the central mechanisms that our government has

used to lie to us and grab more power.

Because Christians have not been reading their Bibles, we are susceptible to lies and are weak in our ability to fight these

lies.

God has given us his word to fight Satan and his lies, and we need to recover all of God's word, its

serrated edge and all.

Mark your calendars for October 6th through 8th as we fight, laugh and feast to the glory of God in

Knoxville, Tennessee.

You'll be enlightened, edified, encouraged and challenged by 10 speakers on the theme Lies,

Propaganda, Storytelling and the Serrated Edge, covering various topics that address the burning issues

facing the church in the world today.

Speakers include Pastor Doug Wilson of Christ Church of Moscow, Idaho, and the whole gang at the Cross

Politics Show and Podcast.

For details, visit FLFnetwork .com.

That's F for fight, L for laugh, F for feast, network .com.

See you there, October 6th through 8th.

In Knoxville, Tennessee.

Have you noticed the gap that exists between the Sunday morning sermon and the Sunday school classroom or the small

group study?

So often we experience great preaching from the pulpit, but when it comes time to study God's word in those

smaller settings, well, let's be honest, it leaves a lot to be desired.

It seems like it is nearly impossible to find good curriculum out there today that is true to the word of God and is

built upon sound doctrine.

Much less it's hard to find curriculum that will actually teach people how to study the Bible.

Hi there, my name is Jordan Tew and I am the executive director of the Baptist Publishing House.

Our ministry is dedicated to providing local churches with sound Bible study resources.

Our quarterly curriculum is titled The Baptist Expositor.

And for good reason, we are Baptist and we exegete the scriptures.

If you want to have a curriculum that teaches your people how to study the word of God, I invite you to go to our website,

download a free study, baptistpublishinghouse .com.

May God bless you.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Ottawa in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens.

Iron is Dr.

Joe Moorcraft.

If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming,

Georgia are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards,.

And Dr.

Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone,

grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone, and God's glory alone.

Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch

.com.

That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com or call 678 -954

-7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831.

If you visit, tell them Joe Roiligan, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener from Attoy in County Kildare,

Ireland sent you.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm author Gary Damar, president of American Vision, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Dan Labenek of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Reverend Buzz Taylor, author of God's Lawson, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Dr. William Webster, pastor of Grace Bible Church in Battleground, Washington, founder

of the ministry Christian Resources, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Ryan Galan of Central Islet Community Church in Central Islet, New York, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com to place your order.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Arnzen is doing is

Daniel P. Patofuko, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

Their mission?

To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God.

They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection

of biblical texts, along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Patofuko,

demonstrating the reliability of Scripture.

To advance the cause of the Gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the

genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition

1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel, and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his

claims to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums, and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public

in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 -page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org.

That's historicalbiblesociety .org.

Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.

We

here at Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio praise God for the generous monthly financial support.

Of Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the American Gem

Society, Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.

For the perfect custom -designed engagement ring or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry created

exactly according to your imagination and specifications, Royal Diadem Jewelers

has you covered.

No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step -by -step through every stage of the

process, and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit using state -of -the -art jewelry design

technology to serve you.

They start by listening carefully to determine your needs.

They're interested in making what you want, not what they want to sell you.

From rough design to digital model, to photorealistic image, to wax prototype model, to

the finished product, they're continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes,

making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed and well beyond your

expectations.

Visit royaldiadem .com.

That's royaldiadem .com today.

Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife, Bronnie, his business partner

and manager, Brian Wilson, and the entire family, thank you all for listening to, praying for,

and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget, folks, Royal Diadem is offering our listeners a

great way for you to support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when you purchase jewelry.

In fact, you may have heard this announcement before, but they are extending the offer for a

longer period of time.

Anytime you purchase jewelry from royaldiadem .com and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,

when the purchase is $100 or more, 100 of the profits will go

directly to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And they are specialists in custom -designed jewelry, so whether you are getting a

custom -designed engagement ring or perhaps you want to take the logo of your church or

para -church ministry and turn it into a piece of jewelry like a pendant or a ring,

they do absolutely spectacular work.

I've seen it firsthand.

The second oldest son of the woman who led me to Christ in the 1980s, he

had a necklace pendant created by Royal Diadem Jewelers, an absolutely

breathtaking cross pendant, and they not only followed his

instructions to the T, but they far exceeded his

expectations, as the ad says.

And that's the truth.

It's not just a gimmick for advertising.

So if you want something like that done, or if you just want to purchase jewelry they already have in stock, go to royaldiadem .com

and mention Iron Sharpens Iron Radio so that we will receive 100 of the profits,

and I will let you know when they are going to bring an end to that specific offer

for us to get all of the profits.

So I hope you order your jewelry as quickly as possible so that we can benefit from it.

We are now back with my guest, Eric Johnson.

Eric is the author of the new book, Introducing Christianity to Mormons,

and we also have as a co -host today my dear friend, Dr. Leptain C. Scott, who is also,

well, unlike my guest, she is a former Mormon who was

saved by the grace and mercy of the author of quite a number of books as well,

including the classic work, The Mormon Mirage.

And if you ever want to hear any of our interviews here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with Leptain C. Scott,

just go to ironsharpensironradio .com and type in Leptain in the search engine, L -A -T -A -Y

-N -A, and there are quite a number of them, including recently

Leptain's response to the recent TV series,

Under the Banner of Heaven, which got quite a lot of responses

from listeners, both positive and negative.

There were not only angry Mormons, sadly, but there were

also people who had left Mormonism who were angry that we were offering

hope of any kind in the spiritual realm that included Jesus Christ

and so on.

They didn't care what kind of religion we were endorsing.

The fact that we were giving the hope of eternal life to sinners they thought was just ridiculous.

They had been so burned by their experiences.

So I hope that you look up those programs.

And Leptain, as a former Mormon, when you have read Eric's book,

Introducing Christianity to Mormons, what about it did you like so much?

I heard you speaking with Eric before we even went on the air and you were quite impressed with his work.

What about his book did you like the most?

You've already mentioned some things, but did anything trigger the thought in your head, I wish that I'd

seen this book when I was a Mormon long before I converted to Christianity.

Actually, I wish that the people who were trying to help me out of Mormonism had had a book like this.

It's a very useful book.

One of the things I think that is most useful about it, besides the, did you call it,

Eric, a glossary at the end?

Or you called it something else, a glossary?

Okay, that is helpful.

But just the entire setup of the book, because he starts with things

that are, I think, most basic.

And he used a device that's very helpful to people, I think readers of today, in

that he gave a kind of a precis or a summary of each of the chapters in about a paragraph or so,

and then he goes on to explain it.

So as you're looking through the book, if there is a subject that you're interested in and you're not

really sure which category it would fall in, you can read his little summary there.

And I say little, not because it's insignificant, but because it's short and accessible.

I thought that was really good.

And I guess another thing that I really appreciated was

the way that he explained in a very accessible way to what

I'm afraid is a biblically illiterate church how we got the

canon or the number of books that we have in the Old Testament and the New Testament.

I thought his explanation of that was very accessible and very helpful.

Great.

And we have a listener in Ada, Ohio, who has a question for you, Eric.

David, he says, could you discuss the Salamander letters and the

Hoffman problem, which happened many years ago, and does that past

have anything to do with the Mormons of today?

And he has a second follow -up question, if you want to start with the first, Eric.

Well, real quickly, there was a guy named Mark Hoffman who was a forger.

And actually the church, the LDS church, was purchasing a lot of his material

that he was forging to take it off of the streets, so to speak, and to be able to hide it.

Gordon Hinckley was one of the main players in that, who later became the 15th president of the church.

He was the first counselor in the first presidency, one of the top three leaders in the church.

And so it doesn't really have much for my book or really anything today, but just to

say that Mark Hoffman, a master forger, and he ends up getting himself into trouble

and ends up using bombs to kill a couple of people.

He actually maimed himself with a bomb that went off in his own car in Salt Lake City.

In fact, our friends, Latane's friends of mine, Gerald and Sandra Tanner, were very much involved with

that because Mark Hoffman had gone into their store and begged Gerald to

authenticate his work because he felt that what he was doing was real.

But one of the things that he did was called the salamander letter.

And because Joseph Smith was involved in occultism, he was involved in the magic worldview, so to speak,

used a seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon.

He was always looking for treasure using that stone.

And so it made sense to the leaders that maybe Joseph Smith did talk about seeing this

magical salamander, and that's why they wanted to buy that and other things.

And he was coming up, Hoffman was coming up with such incredible finds that it was impossible for anybody to

have found all the things that he did.

But he made a lot of money before he ended up getting caught.

Now when you say that Gordon Hinckley and other Mormon authorities were trying, buying up

Hoffman's alleged artifacts that were actually forgeries,

but were they buying them up and hiding the contents of

these artifacts because they believed them to be truly from the hand of

Joseph Smith but embarrassing to them about their history?

Something like the Mountain Meadows Massacre, for instance, has embarrassed the Mormon

church for many, many years.

And it was only, I think, fairly recently in history that they started being more open and honest

about the actual events that occurred with the murder of innocent men, women, and children.

But, so what was the deal there?

Were they hiding it because they believed them to be real, actually

from Joseph Smith's hand but embarrassing, or because they

suspected they were forgeries and just didn't want people to be duped by them?

Not the latter.

They really believed it to be true.

Otherwise they would have called it forgeries and they would have asked the FBI to step in and try to figure this out.

Now the Salamander Letter was one that actually got released.

And the AP actually put out a copy of it with all the words there, which was quite embarrassing to the church.

But they were buying a lot of journals and other things that nobody knew anything about, well, because they weren't real.

And so he was coming up with these things.

But the thing that made him a genius, as far as a forger goes, he used the paper from the 19th century, he used the same

ink.

He had a way of, I mean, it was fooling the experts.

Maybe Latane can talk a little more about that.

To me, that just shows how culpable this religion is, this church is, to bad

publicity.

As you mentioned, Mountain Meadows, it took them years and years before they came up and did a

ceremony there near Cedar City.

And they never apologized.

They just basically acknowledged that it happened but never have taken any guilt

or any kind of apology to be given.

So the church is very much a public relations church.

Wouldn't you agree with that, Latane?

I would.

And I think the most devastating factor that has happened was the advent of

the internet where people had access to many of these things.

I mean, when I left Mormonism, I had Gerald and Sandra Tanner's big old

bulky book with photocopies of these documents.

But now anyone can go on the internet and people have provided those.

And I document in my book, The Mormon Mirage, how the church in Japan, for instance,

the Mormon church in Japan, was devastated by the advent of the internet because in kind of a

closed society there as Japanese Mormons, they had accepted everything that had been

told to them by the Mormon church and did not have access to, for instance, translated

materials from the early church history.

And once they got that over the internet, it just decimated the

population of the Mormon church in Japan, just a microcosm of it, because the church was not

able to use their enormous funds and

publicity arms and everything else to overcome that.

So, yeah, you're absolutely right.

By the way, David, make sure you give us your full mailing address in Ada, Ohio, because you have

won a free copy of Introducing Christianity to Mormons, thanks to our friends at Harvest

House Publishers who have donated a limited number of copies for those submitting questions today.

And also, that will be shipped out to you for free by our dear friends at Cumberland

Valley Bible Book Service, who will be shipping that out to you at no cost to you.

So thanks for listening and submitting an excellent question.

Just out of curiosity, Latane, how prevalent or tiny

is the Mormon church in Japan?

Because years ago, in the early 2000s, when I first launched Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio, a Japanese listener, since the program was, as it is now, live -streamed,

a Japanese listener, who had been rescued out of the Muni cult, was thanking me for an

interview I did on the Munis, and she said that she was

very depressed because she could not find a church home, an evangelical Christian church home, near her,

because less than 1 of Japan is Christian.

So how small could Mormonism be?

It must be pretty small.

I'm sorry, I don't have any figures on that.

Okay.

And Eric, one of the things that I have become

very familiar with is that, as you even mentioned moments ago,

there is a lot to do with Mormonism is public relations, damage control, and that kind of thing.

When I first encountered, face -to -face, a Mormon as a brand -new -born -again Christian,

I responded to a television ad that said, if you would like a book of Mormon hand

-delivered to your house by a Mormon elder, to call this toll -free number.

And I did so.

And at the time, being a young Christian, and as they call us when we're

new into the Reformed faith, I was a cage -stage Calvinist, and

I was ready to take on the world with my newly -found faith.

So it was kind of a trap for the Mormon elders that came to my house.

But there was a very different attitude in the late 80s when this encounter

took place, because the young man who was the more

knowledgeable of the two that came to my home, after the niceties and the

friendliness, he was very clear that he believed that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints was the

only true church.

And much more recently, in the 21st century,

there are Mormons roaming around the neighborhoods of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, right where I'm sitting,

and the last time I encountered them in the street, when I noticed the white shirts, the black

ties, and the black name tags or badges, I called out to them

and approached them and started to have dialogue about the gospel, and they

had a totally different approach, and basically they were saying, you've probably heard that the Mormons think we're

the only true church, but that's not true, we're Christians just like you.

So it was a very different encounter, and we have to go to our midway break, so I want you to pick up on that when we return,

and for those who are also waiting to have their questions asked, be patient, we will get to you as soon as

possible, but if anybody else wants to get in line, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, and as always,

give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence, and please be patient with us as we take

this station break, and don't go away, we will be right back after.

Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth, co -host of Fox and Friends Weekend.

Now, I don't have to tell you, but American education, it's in a free fall, crumbling under the weight of a century of

damage inflicted upon America's academic system.

The answer?

It's called classical Christian education, a form of K -12 ed that's very distinct from

the type of education most Americans have received, myself included.

And that's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian

Academy to talk about this wonderful, growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education.

It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York.

I'll also be signing copies of my New York Times bestselling book, Battle for the American Mind, for the first 50

guests, starting at 6 p .m.

Now, this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education at a time

when it is so desperately needed.

So please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our

great country.

You can purchase tickets for the event by visiting GCALI .com

and following the link to the gala event.

I hope to see you there.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ

at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

Getting a driver's license.

Running a cash register.

Flipping burgers.

Passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have

never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists.

We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at truthloveparent .com.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot.

Jeffrey Rice of Post -Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the

turquoise goatskin tanned in Italy used for my Nessie Allen 28th edition with a navy

blue goatskin inside liner and the electric blue goatskin from a French tannery used to rebind a

Reformation study Bible I used as a gift.

The silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather

making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

For more details on Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding, go to

PTLBibleRebinding .com.

That's PTLBibleRebinding .com.

I'm Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Iron Works, New Hampshire, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Sulay Prince of Oakwood Wesleyan Church in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and the

NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor John Samson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, and the NASB is my Bible

of choice.

I'm Pastor Chuck Volo of New Life Community Church in Kingsville, Maryland, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Steve Herford of Eastport Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Roy Owens, Jr. of The Church in Friendship in Hockley, Texas, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com to place your order.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jansen and

Christopher McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church

in Corham, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into

the unfathomable riches of Christ in His Holy Word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and His doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and

beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net.

Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions, while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the Internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and

in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

Anchored in Truth Ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in Truth is in partnership with 36 church plants, as well as radio stations,

theological seminaries, and various programs for unreached people groups.

With an aim to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel, it is a blessing to see

how God has used Anchored in Truth in so many different contexts globally as well as

locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide, visit anchoredintruth

.org.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com That's solid

-ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you

can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And please never forget, folks, to make your very first stop for all your gift -giving

needs solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com.

They bring back into print and also publish for the very first time nothing but the finest in Christian

literature dating back to the Protestant Reformation and extending forward to our

present day including such modern -day authors as Dr. James R. White

of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

That's solid -ground -books .com.

In fact, Solid Ground Christian Books has published a book

by Dr. James R. White on the subject that we are addressing today.

In fact, a couple of books by Dr. White on this subject.

If you go to the search engine and type in Mormon at solid -ground -books

.com you will find Letters to a Mormon Elder by Dr. James R. White and you will also

find Is the Mormon My Brother? Discerning the Differences Between Mormonism and Christianity, also by

Dr. James R. White.

At solid -ground -books .com always mention that you heard about them from Chris Onzen of Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio.

Before I return to our guest today, Eric Johnson of Mormonism Research Ministry and Dr.

Latane C. Scott, who is our co -host today I just have a couple of very important announcements to make.

First of all, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves I'm urging you please go to

ironsharpensironradio .com click support, then click, click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion and if you prefer the old -fashioned way of

mailing things via snail mail mailing a physical check to a physical address there will also be

a physical address that appears on the screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com where you can mail

your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you want to advertise with us as long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what we believe feel

free to please send us an email to chrisonzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

As long as whatever it is you want to promote is compatible with what we believe we would certainly love to help you launch an ad campaign quickly

because we are just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

I want to remind you again as I try to do every day please never cut in to the

finances that you have allotted to give to your own local church where you're a member

in order to give to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

In other words, don't give less money to your own church than you're accustomed to giving your church

to give us a gift.

And please, if you are really struggling to survive wait until you are more financially stable and back on your feet

before you give us a financial gift.

Those two things are commands of God in scripture providing for your church and providing for your family

and obviously giving financially to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is not a command of God.

But, if you do love this show and you have extra money in the bank collecting interest, you have extra money for

benevolent recreational and trivial purposes please use some of that money

to help us continue to survive if indeed you love the show and don't want us to disappear.

It's ironsharpensironradio .com, click support then click, click to donate now.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring biblically faithful, theologically sound,

doctrinally solid church no matter where you live on the planet Earth I have extensive lists spanning

the globe of biblically faithful churches and may be able to help you find a church within minutes from your own home as I have done

many times for listeners spanning the globe in our audience.

So, if that's the case with you or someone you love you don't have a Christ -honoring biblically faithful church where you live,

anywhere in the world, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest Eric Johnson of

Mormonism Research Ministry we are addressing his book Introducing Christianity to Mormons, a Practical and

Comparative Guide to What the Bible Teaches published by Harvest House Publishers

and before the break you may recall Eric I was asking you to get more in detail on

the radical shift in public relations that has occurred with the Church of Jesus

Christ of Latter Day Saints.

They are affirming and promoting things that no one ten years ago

perhaps would ever have dreamed they would be doing, especially in the area of those

things that the left champions and if you could pick up the ball from there.

Yeah, before I do you had asked the question how many people are in Japan just to

look on the internet it's 130 ,000 people who are

Japanese Mormons that's 0 .1 so it's not a very high number but 130

,000 is still a number but they are a worldwide organization they are all over.

In fact more people live outside the United States than speak inside the

United States and the languages they speak.

English is 45 catch this, 35 Spanish so

that's 80 but 35 their first language is going to be Spanish.

9 % Portuguese.

Brazil, they're going crazy building temples over there.

The first one was in 1978 so anyway fewer inside the United States as there

are outside now.

But you had talked about people who said well we don't claim to be the only true church.

Well I think a Christian it behooves them to know a little bit about the LDS

standard works.

I had mentioned earlier the four scriptures that Mormonism teaches as far as the written scriptures.

I'll just read to you out of the Pearl of Great Price, the fourth of the four scriptures.

This comes from Joseph Smith history chapter 1 and it's Joseph Smith the founder of the Church of

Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints talking about his first vision supposedly he had when he was 14

years of age and he was out in a field basically in upstate New York

and and this is what God told him when Heavenly Father and Jesus appeared to him above him

he asked which of all the churches he should join.

Verse 19, I was answered that I must join none of them for they were all wrong

and the personage who addressed me said all their creeds, all their teachings were an abomination in his sight

that those professors or pastors were all corrupt that they draw near to me with their lips

but their hearts are far from me.

They teach for doctrines the commandments of men having a form of godliness but they deny the power

thereof.

And then in verse 20 it says he again forbade me to join with any

of them.

Latane knows in earlier days that was very big and still is today.

Every Latter Day Saint knows Joseph Smith history chapter 1.

They teach it from primary on that this is the restored church they're told that we need to

have a modern day prophet the 17th prophet is considered to be God's spokesperson

and Russell M. Nelson is doing a pretty good job of making himself out to be that spokesperson.

So the I realize for many Latter Day Saints they don't like to talk that way in fact they'll say you're just as

much of a Christian as they are but when you quote this and say well what did God mean because that's

not me speaking that's not Joseph Smith speaking supposedly that's God speaking that they were all wrong.

How does a Latter Day Saint get beyond that?

The great apostasy I believe is the reason why so many Latter Day Saints

say amongst themselves when there's problems they'll say well if the church isn't true when they're talking about the LDS

church if the church isn't true then nothing else is.

How many times have you heard that Latane?

We hear that all the time and the idea is none of them are true.

I'll let you come in and speak on that.

Well.

When you have a church that claims that it alone can speak for God it alone can

define doctrine.

And not only can it do it with doctrine in the past but actually it's so

contemporary that it's up to date.

When you believe you have that you wonder why anybody else would want anything lesser.

You know you wonder why someone would want just a Bible when you've got all these other things including the

teachings of the of the prophets and your own spirit.

Led local leadership.

And so yes absolutely I agree with you.

Well we have a question from Grady a very faithful listener of Iron Trip and

Zion Radio very faithful financial supporter of our program as well

and Grady says greetings sister and brothers.

Eric I intend to purchase several of your books for our churches bookcases.

Where's the best place to purchase these to benefit your ministry.

Also the elder that planted our church is also named Eric Johnson and I want to

get him an autographed copy.

Is that possible?

In Micah's book he commented about the number of Christians who

criticized instead of showing the love of Christ to Mormons.

Do you see or hear this often.

And I'm assuming when he refers to Micah he's talking about Micah Wilder author of Passport to

Heaven also a friend of my co -host Dr. Latane C. Scott.

But if you could answer all of those questions and if you need a reminder of what they were I could.

Re -read them.

Well yeah let me just deal with the last question there and I'll go backwards.

Ephesians chapter 4 says that we as Christians are supposed to speak the truth in love.

It says in 1st Peter chapter 3 verses 15 and 16.

We're supposed to always have an answer for everyone who asks us to give the reason for the hope we have but do this with

gentleness and respect.

If you are out to win an argument you are in the wrong business here of evangelism.

I think Latane would agree with me on this.

Stop trying to share your faith because if you're just wanting to win the argument you're going to lose the war and

I think that they're going to know us by our love and our concern.

See if a Latter -day Saint is a victim and I believe they are of this church and its leaders who I think

are corrupt then we will have compassion for them that will want to love them to the Lord.

So definitely we don't want to come across.

I don't want my books to be used as something that can be used to slap

somebody around.

I don't want that information to be used that way.

If you're going to use it that way please don't use my material.

Do it because you care for Mormons.

There are great people.

I hate to say good because no one is good the Bible says but at the same time they are

kind and loving people.

And I have had so many friends over the years who are Latter -day Saints.

Part of my wife's family is Latter -day Saint as well so I want to see them saved.

I don't want to see them beaten over with the material we have.

As far as where you can get the book you can go to our website introducingchristianity .com which takes you to our

website mrm .org but there it has links to the four places you can get it.

He can certainly order it from us mrm .org but the first link on

introducingchristianity .com will take you to our website.

He can buy those.

I think we're selling them for $18 including shipping.

Amazon .com christianbooks .com barnesandnoble .com those are all places that are carrying this

book and so yeah I think it's a great idea he wants to put them into the church bookshelves.

I'm hoping that Christians will read this book and have that desire to want to share their

faith in a constructive manner not just there's not a whole lot here on Mormonism.

I'll have to be honest if you want to know more about Mormonism go to our book Mormonism 101.

I give you just enough to help you know where you're at.

But then how do you share Christianity.

And I do that in the 10 chapters by bringing out real life stories evangelism stories that I've been

involved with in my life and I try to use that story to show you how you can use this information.

I have charts in there.

I have lots of citations from different people.

This is not really my book.

I cite the Bible more times than not and then I'm using three different systematic theologies.

I'm using dozens and dozens of different Christian writers to make the point of what Christianity was.

And I'm going to tell you Chris this book I was a little fearful of.

They say you're going to be able to give an amen to this.

It's like giving birth to a baby when you write a book all the ups and all the downs and everything that's

going on.

And then the fear is when you give the birth that people are going to call your baby ugly and that's

that was my fear because I'm dealing with doctrine here.

This book deals with doctrine and that's for somebody like yourself Chris that's I mean you're very set on

what you believe in you should be.

You've studied the scriptures and then I've got you and then I've got this guy over here on another end.

And so that was my fear.

So far the book's only been out for a couple of weeks so far I haven't had a lot of criticism saying well

my goodness that's heresy.

So that was a big thing with me is I wanted to be so careful.

I had lots of people reading this over the publisher put a lot of energy into this.

The whole project took two years for it to come out but I think it's a book to have on a bookshelf in the church.

But also I'm hoping that this Chris will be a book that people will feel confident

that they can handle a latter day saint.

They might not like the title I already talked about that what am I supposed to call this book but if they would want to know what

Christianity has to offer I think what I've done is give you the essential issues in a way that is

understandable.

For the average layperson by the way I just have to insert in here since we've been talking a lot about a lot of deep and heavy

stuff.

A joke.

That's something that you said that reminded me of Rodney Dangerfield.

He said oh I was so ugly when I was born oh when the doctor saw me he slapped my mother.

And you do a good impression.

But anyway.

Grady specifically asked if he could get autographed copies of your book.

Have him order it from our ministry now I'll be honest so he'll do it with

PayPal.

Have him buy it off of our ministry and if he does that in the next couple of days I can get that out

to him.

I am going to be out of the country October 1 through 16 so if he would do that in the next day or two order from

our website.

I tell you what.

If he has any problems with that he can contact me.

My email is eric eric at mrm .org.

And if he has any problems getting in there but have him order that.

Put a note on there.

I'd like these autographed or at least one or whatever he's asking for and I can certainly do that before I leave on Saturday.

And Grady since you have contributed financially so many times to Iron Trip and Zion Radio we do have your

mailing address on file in Asheboro North Carolina and you are getting a free

copy of this book Introducing Christianity to Mormons by Eric Johnson thanks to the

generosity of Harvest House Publishers and also thanks to the generosity of Cumberland Valley Bible Book

Service cbbbs .com who will ship that book out to you at no charge to

you or to us.

We have an anonymous listener who says.

I am remaining anonymous because I have friends with whom I am dialoguing

about Mormonism.

They happen to be members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints and I

was wondering in your opinion should we be sticking more with the Bible and what

it truly teaches about Jesus Christ and the Gospel when we have conversations with Mormons.

Or how much of our conversations should be involving the false teachings of Mormons.

I'm going to answer this and I'm going to ask Latane for her opinion.

Maybe she agrees with me.

Maybe she doesn't.

The Secret Service studies the real bill as the primary focus.

As to what is a real bill they know all the different tests.

How many tests are there.

I think there's like 17 tests to determine if that hundred is a real bill.

I was just at a play and out from the sky.

It was a play having to do with called Lucky Stiff and all these fake $100 bills came in and if

I were to show it to you you would think it's a real bill.

But you can look in the light.

It doesn't work.

So you need to know the original.

But I'm going to say this if you don't know the counterfeit then it won't do you any

good as much as you know the right thing.

It won't do you any good to try to share with the Latter -day Saint because you're going to talk past each other if you're not understanding

what their language is.

You've got to learn the language you have to understand when they say grace that this is God's enabling power to keep the

commandments.

Well that's not what the grace is.

That's on the original.

So you've got to know that counterfeit.

Would you agree with me on that.

Latane in fact.

Eric in your book you offer two questions which I think are very very helpful.

When you start a conversation with a Mormon you ask these two questions and I'll quote them.

One of them is what do you believe about such and such and get that because I think a lot of Christians want

to jump in and want to operate on what they think they know.

And they think that a Mormon may believe without actually letting the Mormon say I believe this.

And then the second question is what do you mean when you say use the term.

So it's been my experience that if you

don't go on the offensive first if you ask clarifying questions a lot of

animosity and hard feelings and misunderstandings are precluded.

If you ask first what they believe and how they use the terms then you have a

basis to work off of.

And of course it's really maybe Eric doesn't have this problem but I want to write down what they say so that I can come back.

And that's kind of intimidating to people so I try not to do that.

But those are two great questions that you had in your book.

Eric.

And thank you.

And what I would say back to you on that latane is nothing I said this earlier.

Nothing is original in my book.

It's my life of experience and having taught theology at 11th grade Christian school level because I taught for

17 years in Southern California.

I was Bible department head of a large Christian school.

Being able to communicate that way I think it's helped me a lot.

But I think that if we don't understand that language and we

end up messing things up royally rather than just letting the person

telling us what they believe.

I got that from the book Tactics by Greg Koukl who talks about the Columbo tactic.

There's just one more thing.

I'm not as good of an impressionist as Chris but you know Peter Falk played Columbo.

If you remember that old time show all of our Gen X listeners are going.

Who in the world is Columbo.

I would swear R .C. Sproul very often was doing a.

Columbo imitation.

Yeah well I mean I use other people's material in my book to say listen

I've used this material for years.

Here's what's worked for me.

And asking them what it is they believe instead of telling them as you just said latane is so very

important.

Never assuming what they believe let them tell you.

And what Koukl says is you're letting yourself become

offensive rather than playing defense all the time.

Let the atheists and the agnostics and the Mormons let them do some answering they always want.

Us to be the Bible answer man.

Well we want to thank the anonymous listener for sending in a question and if you email me your full name and mailing

address you have also won a free copy of Introducing Christianity to Mormons by

Eric Johnson compliments of Harvest House Publishers and compliments of CVBBS

.com Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

We have another anonymous listener who says in your

educated opinion do you believe that because of all the leftism that seems to be

accepted by modern day Mormons they are going to be heading for a church

split?

And I'll start with Eric and perhaps if Latane has any of her own ideas she can chime in as well.

Well let me say in 2012 there was a survey done by Mormon Stories John Dillon very

popular atheistic podcaster who used to be latter day

saint and the survey basically found that the main reasons the top ten reasons why people are

leaving had to do with doctrine had to do with history of the church.

Now this is before what are called the gospel topics essays were produced by the LDS church

from the year 2013 to the year 2015 in those 13 essays the church admitted to

things that the internet knew already Latane had talked about that earlier.

They admitted that Joseph Smith had between 30 and 40 wives.

We knew that from before a third of his wives were married to living husbands that's polyandry.

A third of his wives were teenagers as young as 14.

They admitted to that.

They admitted that Joseph Smith used a seer stone and a hat to translate the Book of Mormon.

Those were pretty heady issues and I have a story in chapter 10 of

an 80 year old and his wife was 80 and they left

the church and tell us about my communication with them as they came into Sandra Tanner's bookstore on the day that I was

volunteering saying they no longer believed in Joseph Smith because of those things.

But I'm going to say there was another book published.

It's called The Next Mormons by Jana Rees and I'm sure you guys might be familiar with that book.

If not you ought to get it The Next Mormons by Jana Rees a Mormon blogger.

She is published by Oxford so this is a scholarly book.

But she did paid a lot of money to do surveys.

What she discovered the top ten reasons the number eight was the top doctrinal or

historical issue.

The ones that were before that, the church no longer fit.

I don't know if I can trust these men anymore.

I'll tell you the feminism issue and the idea that

homosexuality is still not allowed in the Mormon church.

I'm going to say increasing in the last three years even since she's done this because there's a lot of feminists

who want the priesthood.

There's a lot of feminists who want to pray to Heavenly Mother.

They're not allowed to have those things.

As far as the homosexuality, LGBTQ a lot of people are

leaving because of that.

I just talked to somebody last month, a woman who had just left a couple months before.

That makes it hard when I ask why did you leave the church?

What's the reason?

She says because of the LGBTQ+.

That puts me in a difficult spot.

I'd rather they say a doctrinal issue or a historical issue or say I found out it wasn't true anymore rather

than to use a social issue.

Is it leading to a split?

I don't know.

I'm not a prophet in that sense.

There certainly is a lot of division especially here in Utah at Provo where BYU is located.

They have all kinds of things happening.

Just in the last month, we had an apostle go over there and try to lay down the law.

They're just rebelling over it at the church -run BYU, Brigham Young University.

We'll see what happens but it's something that the church probably just needs to deal with better.

Did you have something to add on that?

Traditionally, you went to church in a Mormon ward according to the geography of where you

lived in a town, which is kind of a foreign idea for many Christians.

Now people are selecting wards according to their interests.

It is my understanding, and Eric probably has more firsthand experience with this than I do living in

Utah, but there are entire wards that are basically LGBTQ,

all the alphabet of sexuality.

They run the services,

the church services, in a way that favors that and welcomes

people with different sexual orientations.

So that's kind of a new thing, I think, for Mormons, is to think that

you would actually choose where you go to church, which means you choose your leadership and your brothers and sisters, which has

not been the way it's been traditionally.

I have a question for Eric, and it's kind of a...

Do we have time, Chris, for a question to him?

Yes, we do.

Okay.

Well, I had discussed this before we went on the air, but one question I think a lot of people have

about Mormonism is something that I would like to help with, but I want your opinion.

If somebody asks you, is Mormonism a cult, how would you answer that?

We actually talk about that in chapter.

One of our book, Answering Mormon's Questions.

The first question, we dealt with it right away, because it's often brought out, and the question goes like this, why

won't you accept Mormons as Christians?

Do you think we're a cult?

Here's our response.

In that book that was published back in 2013 with Kregel, we have response questions, and

so we have three questions before the one I'm going to give you, and I don't like, by the way, to bring

up the word cult.

Again, I don't bring out well, you're not a Christian, either.

I don't want to start an argument before I have a chance to start talking.

But if they ask that question, which is rare, why do you think people assume that your

religion is a cult?

I like that question, if that got brought up to me, because let them tell you, well, they say that

we believe in polygamy or whatever else, and then you can go from there.

Find out where they're at.

Why did you bring that question to me?

Because I never called you a cult.

I'll never use that term at all.

Well, the reason I ask that is I'd like to offer a resource to Chris's audience.

I've actually put together part of a book that I once published called Why We Left a Cult

that was published quite a while ago by Baker Bookhouse.

But I've extracted that, and given the characteristics of pseudo -Christian cults,

and without specifying Mormonism, I mean, there are lots of groups that can be

considered pseudo -Christian cults.

In other words, they use the terminology of Christianity.

They may use the Bible, or misuse the Bible, or whatever.

If anybody would like a free copy of that e -book, which I think would be very helpful if anyone is

interested in that, they can get it by writing or going to latayne .com

l -a -t -a -y -n -e dot com forward slash cults c -u -l -t

-s.

That's just a little bonus or gift I'd like to offer Chris's listeners, and

also if Eric has any use for it, absolutely my pleasure for him to use it as well.

But I don't want to take attention away from how useful and

helpful Eric's book is, because it is so detailed and so

well organized so that you can find the information that you need either by looking in the

glossary or looking in the table of contents or looking in the descriptions that you don't have

to search around like you do in a lot of other books.

So I really want to.

Emphasize that.

Thank you.

I'd like to also give a plug to the ministry of a very dear friend of mine, Pastor Jason

Wallace of Christ Presbyterian Church in Magna, Utah.

He has created a very professional documentary on video called An Earnest

Plea to Latter -day Saints, which can be found at lds .video

lds .video.

And I am not only plugging this because yours truly, Chris Arnson, does

the voiceovers for a number of people in the documentary, including Brigham Young.

But even if I was not a part of that documentary in that way, it's really magnificent and I strongly urge you to

take advantage of it.

It's free, lds .video.

But anyway, before I go to the break, the final break, do either of you have anything

that you want to say before you forget it?

And then we'll move on to our final chapter.

I yield to Eric.

He's the expert on this show and I.

Really appreciate it.

No, I don't have anything to add right now.

So maybe somebody has some more questions out there on the next half hour.

I have a quick.

Question for you, Eric.

I see a Native American hanging on, or I should say a painting of a Native

American hanging on the wall behind you.

And which of the Lost Tribes of Israel is that Native American from?

That is there a Lamanite, one of the two people groups.

Now, my grandfather was a very accomplished artist and so it's one of the

paintings I have from him.

And it just happens to be in my office and so I aim my camera back there and sometimes when I'm

cropped, that's not shown, but you get a view of it.

So yeah, it's one of my favorites.

Because I've had that since I was a boy.

One of these days, if I ever am given the opportunity to have a conversation with Mel Brooks, I would like to

ask him if he knew about the connection to Native Americans and Mormonism.

In a movie, some cowboys encounter some Native Americans on horseback

and the chief begins to speak to them in Yiddish, which is Mel Brooks.

But anyway, just dying to find out if he did that as a spoof of what Mormons believe about Native Americans.

But we're going to our final break right now.

If you'd like to have a question asked and answered, send it in immediately

because we're rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state and country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

We'll be right back.

Don't go away.

Hi, I'm Pete Hegseth, co -host of Fox and Friends Weekend.

Now, I don't have to tell you, but American education, it's in a free fall, crumbling under the weight of a century of

damage inflicted upon America's academic system.

The answer?

It's called classical Christian education, a form of K -12 ed that's very distinct from the

type of education most Americans have received, myself included.

And that's why I'm so excited to have been invited by my friends at Long Island's Grace Christian

Academy to talk about this wonderful, growing movement and new approach rediscovered to education.

It's at 7 p .m. October 15th at the Marriott Hotel and Conference Center in Melville, New York.

I'll also be signing copies of my New York Times bestselling book, Battle for the American Mind, for the first 50

guests starting at 6 p .m.

Now, this is a fundraising event designed to raise money to help grow this type of education at a time

when it is so desperately needed.

So please come ready to give and to learn about a way to stimulate academic revival in our

great country.

You can purchase tickets for the event by visiting GCALI .com

and following the link to the gala event.

I hope to see you there.

God has given us His Word to fight Satan and his lies, and we need to recover all of God's Word, its

serrated edge and all.

Mark your calendars for October 6th through 8th as we fight, laugh, and feast to the glory of God in

Knoxville, Tennessee.

You'll be enlightened, edified, encouraged, and challenged by 10 speakers on the theme, Lies,

Propaganda, Storytelling, and the Serrated Edge, covering various topics that address the burning issues

facing the church in the world today.

Speakers include Pastor Doug Wilson of Christ Church of Moscow, Idaho, and the whole gang at the Cross

Politics Show and Podcast.

For details, visit FLFnetwork .com.

That's F for Fight, L for Laugh, F for Feast, Network .com.

See you there October 6th through 8th in.

Knoxville, Tennessee.

I'm Dr. Joseph Piper,

President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian

Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use

the eight -volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled

Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and

systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking

for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to

WestminsterCommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit

HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com.

Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph

Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary

sends

you.

If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring,.

You probably have questions.

How do you make your savings last?

How much should you take out and when?

You're ready for retirement, but are your finances?

Art Amundsen, an Edward Jones Financial Advisor, can help you build a strategy to help make sure your

finances keep up with your long -term needs.

Do what it takes to get there.

Now it's time to make the most of retirement.

Visit EdwardJones .com.

That's EdwardJones .com.

Or call 717 -258 -4688.

717 -258 -4688.

We here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio are forever grateful for the generous financial support

of Art Amundsen, Edward Jones Financial Advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Call 717 -258 -4688.

Today.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched.

In 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first

sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the.

NASB.

This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co -host of the Just Thinking Podcast, and the NASB is my

Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Tom Buck at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Andrew Rapport, the Founder and Executive Director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and

the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Mark Romaldi, Pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Christopher Cookston, Pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon,

and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Matt Tarr, Pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them from

Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com to place your order.

Here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, praise God for the generous monthly financial support of

Royal Diadem Jewelers, educated by and affiliated with the American Gem Society,

Jewelers of America, and the Gemological Institute of America.

For the perfect custom designed engagement ring, or any one -of -a -kind piece of jewelry created

exactly according to your imagination and specifications, Royal Diadem Jewelers

has you covered.

No matter where you live in the world, Royal Diadem will walk you step by step through every stage of the

process, and even hold a high -tech internet virtual visit using state -of -the -art jewelry design and

technology to serve you.

They start by listening carefully to determine your needs.

They're interested in making what you want not what they want to sell you.

From rough design to digital model, to photorealistic image, to wax prototype model, to

the finished product, they are continually listening to your input, likes and dislikes,

making any changes necessary along the way.

This will ensure that your custom jewelry will turn out exactly as you dreamed, and well beyond your

expectations.

Visit royaldiadem .com that's royaldiadem .com today.

Sterling Vandewerker, owner of Royal Diadem Jewelers, his wife Bronnie, his business partner

and manager Brian Wilson, and the entire family thank you all for listening to, praying for,

and supporting the work of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

My name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York, and also the

host of the reformrookie .com website.

I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

Apple's iTunes app by typing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in the search bar.

You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show at any time day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many

solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnzen has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days so don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio podcast right now.

And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reformrookie .com podcast and visit our website and the YouTube

page.

We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a Reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as

well as seasoned believers.

From Keech's Catechism and the Doctrines of Grace to the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Leviticus, the Reform

Rookie Podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession

of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Corham, New York.

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invidio and thanks for listening.

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how He shall be worshiped and how He

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading, preaching, and hearing the Word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs,

baptism, and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship, performed with faith, joy,

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Welcome back.

We have another.

Anonymous listener who says, I have a friend who thinks he's an evangelical,

often shows up at evangelical functions, but he is actually a member of an

RLDS church, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, which today goes by

the name the Community of Christ.

I keep telling him that he is in a cult, and he refuses to acknowledge that fact, saying

that there is far too much difference from this church than the Mormons, and he

also says he believes in every evangelical tenant that I do.

What can you say about the RLDS now called the Community of Christ?

How different is it from the official LDS church, and how much

concern should I have over this brother's soul?

Well, I think there should be a lot of concern, no doubt.

The Reorganized Latter -day Saint Church later became known as the Community of Christ stayed

behind while Brigham Young took the people out of Nauvoo, Illinois in

1846, and the actual ancestors of Joseph

Smith became the leaders.

I was just in Nauvoo this past summer in July, and we sat down for an hour and a half with an apostle of

the Community of Christ, and I'll tell you right off the top, they are not an evangelical Christian organization.

If you want to liken them to anything, they're not any closer to Mormonism than they are evangelical Christianity.

I would call them a cross between New Age and liberal Protestant

Christianity, like a Methodist church or different kinds of churches that are out there.

I think I would deal with every individual as they come, I would ask the

questions that we were talking about earlier.

Latane and I were talking about what do you believe about blank,

and get them to define things because for them, doctrine is not as

important as it would be for the evangelical Christian.

I like to ask the question what does it say in 1 John 5, verse 13?

Well, it says that we may know we have eternal life.

I'll ask the person, whether it's a Latter -day Saint, whether it's a member of the Community of Christ or anybody, I think it's a

wonderful tactic to say if you were to die right now, would you end up in the very best that God has for

us, Heaven?

And get them to explain yes or no, and if they say yes, oftentimes they're going to say, well,

why should you be allowed in?

And they'll say oftentimes, well, I'm a good person.

I'm doing the best I can.

I'm trying.

Well, those are admirable.

Latter -day Saints like to say that all the time, but sin means that you have to have a record of

perfection.

The only way that you can receive perfection is not based on what you can do, salvation by

grace through faith after all you can do.

It's not based on your work.

It is based on work.

It's based on the work of Jesus.

He's the one who said it is finished.

He's the one who imputed His righteousness into your account based on faith and faith alone.

A Community of Christ member does not have that assurance, does not believe in faith alone.

I've talked to Community of Christ members who are even atheistic in their mindset.

So if he comes from that brand, I would deal specifically with just asking those kinds of

questions.

I think you can have a productive conversation.

What would you say on that?

Well, you have to remember that the RLDS or Community of Christ Church does

believe in the story of Joseph Smith, or does their churches organized

around that concept that that happened.

But when you can't believe something that didn't happen, you consign

it to myth, which means that they have tended, in my opinion, to consign the Bible to

myth as well.

And so your assessment that they are like many liberal churches where there are good principles

in these things, but they don't necessarily have to be factually or historically true.

They had to go that route because they, like the Mormon Church, can no longer

contend that the things that Joseph Smith said were accurate and valid in

terms of what happened in his historical life, etc.

The other thing is their claim for authority for

a church on earth is ancestral, as you said.

It goes through the descendants of Joseph Smith.

Eric, you can tell me this.

Haven't they.

Kind of reached the end of the road on that?

Yeah, they stopped about 20 years.

Ago.

Yeah, where the last descendant died.

And then what could they do?

Well, it no longer became essential to have that as a mark of their

trueness of being the true Mormon Church, or the true LDS Church, because they no

longer have the descendant of Joseph Smith to carry on.

So it's been a difficult road for them.

I think of all of the iterations of Mormonism, I think they've tried harder

to appear Christian with just a little Joseph Smith on the side, and now they're

in a worse situation than even the Mormon Church.

They don't have the funds, they don't have the influence, they don't have a lot of things that the Mormon Church has.

They also don't have the society or the community worldwide.

I mean, you can go anywhere if you're a Mormon.

When I was in college, my car broke down in Moab.

What did I do?

I called the Mormon bishop.

Of course they helped me.

I don't think that's at all the case with the community of Christ, just because of their few numbers.

In fact, if you go to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio website, ironsharpensironradio .com,

if you type in RLDS in the search engine, you will be able to hear some interviews I did with

former RLDS members.

Unless my memory is shaky, I'm pretty sure that an interesting fact to throw in about them

is that one of the reasons why the LDS do not use the Joseph Smith

Bible is because the RLDS owns the copyright on it.

Am I right on that?

That's what they say.

They have Article 8.

Joseph Smith came up with 13 Articles of Faith.

Article 8 says that the Bible is true as far as it is translated correctly.

That's a misnomer.

I talk about it in the first two chapters of my book, Introducing Christianity to Mormons.

But Joseph Smith did complete a quote -on -quote translation.

He just took the King James and he changed words and added things to it, including half a chapter at the end of Genesis predicting

Joseph the seer, predicted him coming.

It's a terrible quote -on -quote translation.

I don't even like to use that word.

But it's a Joseph Smith translation.

He finished it in 1833.

And by the way, the Church uses it in its notes in the four volumes that it puts together.

It's called the Quad.

And the notes all come from the inspired version, or the Joseph Smith translation, even though they

don't use it officially.

So they still use it.

And they cite it almost every month in the Liahona magazine, their official church magazine.

Well, I'm assuming that they have to pay royalties to the RLDS.

I don't know that for a fact.

Well, we are now out of time.

And I thoroughly enjoyed every moment of our interview today.

I know that I would like both of you back on the program.

I want to make sure that our listeners have all the information that they need for both of you.

First of all, if you want to get in touch with the organization that Eric Johnson represents,

Mormonism Research Ministry, just go to mrm .org.

Mrm .org.

And Dr. Latane C. Scott, if you want to find out more about her and

the latest in her activities and writings, go to latane .com.

And that's L -A -T -A -Y -N -E dot com.

And Eric, do you have any final words briefly that you'd like to tell our listeners?

Well, I just wish I had a name where I could put eric .com and people actually get to it.

But I sure appreciate having you and Latane interview me on this.

I think this is going to be a valuable book.

I appreciate your kind words you both have said.

And.

To God be all the glory.

God be the glory.

Well, Latane, do you have any final words as well?

Latane .com forward slash cults.

Great.

Well, I want to thank everybody who listened today.

Especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I want you all, I ask of you all to please pray for Iron Trump and Zion Radio as we

are facing some very serious financial struggles.

And I ask of you to pray for me personally as well.

I am looking forward to hearing from all of you out there in my listening audience with

questions for our guests in the days to come.

And look forward to seeing you at my next event, whatever that event may be.

It was such a joy to meet many of you for the first time at the Iron Trump and Zion Radio

Pastors Luncheon as well as rekindle old friendships.

And even meet many of you for the first time at the debate that Dr. James R. White engaged in

this past Saturday.

I can never thank you folks enough who listen to this program, who approach me when you see me in

public, especially when I'm manning an exhibitors booth.

I can never thank you enough for the comfort and encouragement you give me by letting me know

how much Iron Trump and Zion Radio means to you.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a

far greater Savior than you are a sinner.