December 14, 2018 Show with Rusty Reed on “Pastoring a Small Church in a Bi-Vocational Ministry (The Advantages, Disadvantages & Challenges)”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own.

Questions.

Now here's our host Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are

listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on this

14th day of December 2018.

Before I introduce my guest and our subject today, I just wanted to say that I learned

last Wednesday night, this past Wednesday, from Jonathan Reisinger, a fellow

member of Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, that his uncle John G.

Reisinger, a key figure in the resurgence of the doctrines of Sovereign Grace Amongst Baptists

in the mid -20th century, is likely not going to be experiencing another Christmas here on earth

and is expected to be joining his dearly departed wife and his brother Ernie Reisinger, founder of Grace

Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania, and another 20th century trailblazer for Sovereign Grace

Amongst Baptists, who are awaiting John's entrance into eternity with them, where he

will be welcomed with open arms by his Lord, God, Savior, King and Friend, Christ Jesus,

who has been John's number one passion for many decades.

John Reisinger's teaching and preaching and fellowship at the annual Bunyan Conferences in Pennsylvania

played a central role in the development of my own understanding of the Holy Scriptures during the

formative days when I was cutting my teeth on the doctrines of Grace as a new

Christian in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

My years attending the John Bunyan Conference every year, accompanied by my

late wife Julie's pastor, the late Don Blind, who became a very precious friend to

me, have forged memories for me that I will treasure and cherish forever.

I am so honored to have been given the privilege to interview John Reisinger several times

on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio and have received from him a beautifully written endorsement for this

program.

I would appreciate it if you would please pray for John Reisinger as he prepares to depart this earth

after a very long, faithful, and fruitful life of service to his King and please

pray for the Reisinger family as well because obviously they will be going through a period

of grief and mourning after John does leave this earth, but obviously a

period of mourning that will be mixed with joy because they will certainly know with great confidence

where John is for eternity with Christ.

Well, now I'd like to introduce to you with my raspy voice due to

a cold that suddenly sprang upon me last night, a return of a cold that I thought that I had

completely gotten rid of.

Today we have as our guest for the very first time on Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio Rusty Reed.

He is the pastor of Reformation Church in Baker, Louisiana, formerly called Friendship Baptist Church,

which is a multi -ethnic congregation seeking to minister to the North Baton Rouge, Louisiana area,

emphasizing expository preaching and a return to the Bible.

Rusty Reed is also a speaker at the upcoming Deep South Founders Conference, which you have heard being

advertised on this program for the last couple of weeks, and today we are going to be addressing the theme,

Pastoring a Small Church in a Bivocational Ministry, the Advantages, Disadvantages, and

Challenges, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio,

Rusty Reed.

Thank you, Chris, good to be with you today.

Well, why don't you tell our listeners something a little bit more about Reformation Church of.

Baker,

Louisiana.

Okay, and all

the people who originally,

and it had always been a small church in the

early 90s, and

by the time I came

here Easter Sunday, 2000, it was very small indeed.

As a matter of fact, when we came here, there were about nine people

who voted me in, four that

started out, and I've been here

for 18 years.

This is my 18th year, and

about 2004,

came under

the, that were in

nature, and went to a friend of mine,

was, reformed things to me,

and Calvinism in

college, and I made a

commitment for someone to know exactly how I was going to do

things, but I decided that I would just preach through the Bible, and I started in John, and

I didn't tell my pastor friends, he began to

share with me some things, and we began to reform in

2003, by the time 2000.

Praise God.

Well, if anybody would like more details on Reformation Church,

the church that we just mentioned there, you can, it's Reformation Church of

Baker, Louisiana, you can go to Friendship Baptist I, I'm sorry,

Friendship Baptist LA for Louisiana, Friendship Baptist LA, and that website is under

construction, because obviously even the name has changed, so, but at least that's a starting point for you,

Friendship Baptist LA, the former name of Reformation Church.

And what we normally do on Iron Trip and Zion Radio Rusty, when we have a very first time guest

on the program, is we have them give a summary of their salvation testimony,

so I would like you to let our listeners know what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were

raised in, and what providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up.

In your life that drew you to himself and saved you.

Yes, well, I was a young child.

Yes, I'm still here.

Okay, yeah, I was, I came to faith young, and

the pastor,

the notion, if I died apart from Christ, I would

be lost, and that just became a burden

on my life, and one Sunday, I did what I had seen so many people

do at the end of the service.

I walked down the aisle.

I actually got my brother, my older brother, to walk down with me, because I was scared to walk by

myself, and when I got to the preacher, he said, what do you need?

And I said, I need Jesus.

I need to, I need to,

my family, I grew up in a Christian family.

My mother and my father were both, and

so my family, and so

an

older

age, strayed, and

felt that I knew a little bit more than my parents knew.

The grace of God, He preserved me in faith, and

so I did, although I have

to say that college, a

major

disillusioned

music leader.

I just

didn't want

the image of

the dudes and a person who's kind of fake, and

it began to grow in me.

Actually, it became an issue for me, and so I decided that I wasn't going to

go and get a master's degree.

I came home and eventually met

my, and fell in love, and she was

a, and just

a church,

and the path was that he kept on

asking

me things like that,

and I,

do you think it's possible?

And I said, yeah, I guess it is possible.

We began to look for, and

then this

little called me up, and

I did that.

Praise God.

Well, now let us know something.

About the Deep South Founders Conference, where you are going to be speaking.

You're on the roster there, and I will, God willing, also be there manning an exhibitor's

booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, January 24th through the 26th at the Bethlehem Baptist

Church of Laurel, Mississippi.

Tell us about this conference.

Well, I became involved in the Founders.

Oh yeah,

I've had Fred.

On the program several times, and I think his book, his

monumental book, The Baptism of Believers Alone, I believe is the title of it.

Fred is a phenomenal guy.

Yeah, yeah.

He made an impression.

On me, sweet man, and I've

always been the kind of guy who just, I don't know, maybe I have more nerves.

I called him.

I didn't know him from Adam, and he didn't know, certainly didn't know me, and so I called him up and told him

who it was and told him that I wanted to start a fraternity.

I met with him and a few other folks and

some others, and we did, and so that's kind of how

it happened.

I know Dr. Kerry

Kimbrell.

I grew up in the same area,

so I've

been going there

for several years, and

they nominate,

and I found out that there's another

past wonderful man in

Monroe, Louisiana, and so there were two Rustys

that were nominated for the board of

the Deep South 18 in 2019, and Rusty

later on told me that he voted for me.

Rusty chose me this time, and

so anyway, if you're on the board, I'm sure that's Kimbrell,

then, and you're a pastor, and

officially, yeah,

I'm gonna preach

through the 1689 London Baptist Confession, and

this year, and the keynote speaker.

Actually, I know his.

Name is pronounced M. Bayway, since I've known him since 1995.

I appreciate you correcting me, and I knew that I would say something wrong.

Well, even my friend who is one of your, I don't know how to put

this, I guess one of your spiritual mentors, even though you don't know him personally, you know of

his ministry and have been benefited by it, but even Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, you will hear him

mispronounce Dr. M. Bayway's name in an ad during this program.

Okay, well, look, if James White...

And I know...

Anyway...

Go ahead, go ahead.

So he's going to be speaking, and I can't help but miss the humor here,

the purging of Alpacra.

Well, I can't even...

Some of my listeners might be tired of me repeating this all the time, but I cannot say enough

about the phenomenal gifts of Conrad M. Bayway, his preaching gifts.

I keep repeating it, and I'm not exaggerating it when I say it.

I think he is the most powerful preacher alive on the planet Earth, of course, in regard to whom I have heard

preach.

I've not heard everybody in the world preach, and

I am not meaning that in any disrespect to many other men I love who I have

benefited from, including pastors that I've had, but Conrad is just...

There's something very unique about him that I would urge anyone to get in a train, plane,

or automobile and hear him preach whenever they hear that he is preaching anywhere

within traveling distance, because it will be something that you will always remember.

No doubt about it.

He's a powerful preacher, and of course, it doesn't hurt that he's got that wonderful accent.

From Kibwata Baptist Church, Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and a chancellor of the African Christian

University.

Right, right.

So you'll have that one redneck.

I have redneck, Caucasian, from Louisiana

coming.

Well, brother, this is an interesting theme.

We have addressed this at least once before, but as far as pastoring a small

church, and of course, you've expanded the theme, pastoring a small church, by

vocational ministry, the advantages, disadvantages, and challenges.

But I don't think that you can

be guilty of overkill, necessarily, by repeating this subject, because it is a

very prominent issue, especially when churches are preaching the truth.

When churches are taking a stand for truth, that very often means that you

are taking a very unpopular stand in this day and age.

And when there are many churches all over the country in most communities

to choose from, people will very often choose the bigger,

more professionally appearing church in

regard to the music ministry.

There are churches with music ministries that rival Broadway, theater, and so on.

So, when a church is taking a stand for the truth in spite of the fact that

it may cost the members or prevent them from numeric growth,

I think that that is something that should be addressed on this program, especially since

I know many Reformed churches that are very small churches.

Yeah.

Like, for instance, people will refer to my congregation where I'm a member as a huge

church, and I chuckle because I don't think that we have...

We don't even have 250 people on a Sunday morning.

But for a Reformed Baptist church, that's pretty big.

Yeah, it is.

It is.

Absolutely right.

And when we became a Reformed Baptist church

in 2003, we understood that we would never...

John McCullough...

And typically, and if you could respond to this before we get into more of the main content that you want

to address, but there are some automatic reactions that many people have when they hear

about a very small church.

They will very often draw the wrong conclusion that these people do not have a burden

for evangelism.

That's obviously why they're small.

They're not passionate and concerned about seeing the lost get saved.

Otherwise, they would be bursting through the walls.

And then you have the other extreme, where you have very small churches

that may be that way because of the stereotype that I just mentioned.

They may be guilty of fulfilling that stereotype.

Or they may be so cultic

in their isolationist mentality and so rigid about things

that should be secondary or tertiary issues on the ladder of importance of belief and practice.

Or they might not want a lot of newcomers coming in because they don't

want a conflict to arise that may challenge or change

things that they believe are important.

I happen to know of one church that became a hyper -preterist church.

And a pastor was invited in to take over the

mantle from the pastor that was leaving.

And even though the pastor that was leaving knew that his predecessor, or should I say his successor,

was not a hyper -preterist, he at one time discipled this man

and urged him to take his place

there, even though he did not agree with him on the hyper -preterist issue.

And my friend somewhat hesitatingly and reluctantly

took him up on the offer.

He was being used of God to grow that church.

And there were, I think, somewhere in the neighborhoods between 10 and 20 new families coming.

And they were all driven out because they were not hyper -preterists.

So, I mean, you have all different reasons why a church is small, but I'm assuming

that your church is not small because you are lackadaisical or uncaring about the law.

So just pick up where I left off there.

Yeah, well, I think you're right.

I think.

Certainly there are probably churches small,

and they're

probably, I'm sad to think about,

I guess we've all heard the abnormed

pastors who basically

are

not going

to...

On the other hand,

obviously I grew up in the 80s, very much in the

middle of the church growth movement, and even in

Southern

bound

teaching,

but

also

state in quality that your

people have families, they have needs.

I think

the

key to that,

the way that I've done things, minister

mistakes

and kind

of things and

appreciate about you is that

everybody, you

don't have to be a PhD theologian, and

that's who I am.

I am not James White

or

praise God, I can...

Amen.

By the way, since you brought up ecclesiology, I can't help but to promote a future

show that I'm having on the very subject of Baptist ecclesiology and polity on January

4th, God willing, we're going to have Dr. Michael Haken on the program to address that issue.

Oh, yeah.

I'll be listening to that.

We're going to our first station break.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for our guest today, Rusty Reed.

By the way, I wanted to let you know that my friend, Pastor John

Sampson of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona,

wants to know if you are a Rusty Reed that will not break.

Yeah, I hope so.

I know this much, that even if I'm bruised...

Well, if you have any questions for Rusty Reed on pastoring a small church and bivocational ministry, the advantages,

disadvantages, and challenges, please give us an email at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

As always, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question is personal and private.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Hello, my name is James Renahan, and I'm the president of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

The Word of God says, If a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry?

Twenty years ago, the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California, was born.

For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist

churches.

It has been a wonderful partnership.

Now, we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to

the Master of Divinity degree.

This is IRBS Theological Seminary.

We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ

is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to

honor and serve the triune God in all things.

IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to

these doctrines.

Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ and his church as a pastor?

Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?

You'll find more information at irbsseminary .org.

That's irbsseminary .org, two S's in the middle.

I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you.

Hi, Phil Johnson here.

I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest

on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

So, I'm delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the G3

conference where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever,

Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the

topic of biblical understanding of missions.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you all at this very important conference from January 17th

through the 19th.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpen's Iron exhibitors booth to say hi to Chris.

For more details, go to g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

See you there.

I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor, small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

Kabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say, God bless you and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there, so if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi

39443, or donate through our website bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi

39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

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My name is Steve.

Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who.

Never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

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Now we are back with our discussion with Rusty Reed, who is the

pastor of Reformation Church in Baker, Louisiana, which is in the

northern area of Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

And we are discussing pastoring a small church in a bivocational

ministry, the advantages, disadvantages, and challenges.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

And why don't we start with some of the advantages.

People might not think that there are any advantages of being in a small church, but I think that there clearly

are.

I have, throughout my Christian life, had friends who were

pastors of very small churches, churches that are very small comparatively to

other churches across the United States, and there was an obvious

tighter -knit family of believers in those churches.

These were churches where everybody literally knew everybody, where they

seemed to have a lot more fun at fellowship gatherings and enjoy their company.

So, I mean, the family aspect of what a congregation should be is really strengthened when the

church is smaller, isn't it?

Yes, isn't it, Al?

And look, the fact of

the matter is

that America's churches were growing in number, but

rather they were growing in number.

They're smaller churches, and the same research stated that the

majority of U .S. churches have fewer than

158 that had less

than 100 people, and there was some more research

that indicated that not a lot of

people.

So the fact of the matter is there are a lot,

and there are advantages to

it.

People know each other,

the pastor knew their names, they knew everybody in the church.

There are

disadvantages for,

say, a

staff.

Sadly, they're left out

of depth

at taking small resources

and doing the best that you can do with

them.

But I'm here to tell you

that, I mean, you

can do

Reformation Church, who

just committed

their,

I mean,

to try to get people to read the

impact that a while back we had.

Why don't we do a play?

So we did.

You had to play five parts in it, right?

No, I was just the narrator, thankfully.

It was a musical thing, so yeah, it was limited in what I could do.

But we had a wonderful time doing that play, and I mean, it was way beyond

what we, as a church, had left.

And it

had a huge impact.

Another thing

we wanted to do,

which we'd never done before,

but you got the

gospel

message.

Wow.

Yeah,

from maybe

even 200

people.

I have a friend who is now in eternity with Christ.

His name is Dr. Robert J. Cameron.

He was an Orthodox Presbyterian minister.

Actually, before that, he was a Presbyterian Church in America minister, and before that, he was a Reformed Episcopalian

minister.

But he believed that the church should start

really aggressively being involved in a church shrinkage movement.

He was uncomfortable with churches that just allowed themselves to

grow and grow and grow and grow without planting other churches.

He obviously did not want to shrink a church by unnecessarily driving people out or preventing people from

coming in, but he believed that churches had more of a responsibility to plant.

And one of the main reasons that he had this passion and view is that

he believed that it is extremely more difficult

for larger churches to adequately shepherd and disciple and

discipline megachurches, very large churches.

And the smaller the church is, typically, the more

adequately a shepherd or shepherds, plural, can discipline and disciple

and shepherd those people.

What would you have to say about that?

I

agree, and

I would

add to that

that we need to

shield too often,

you know,

if you

really

can't do that.

An elder can't do that if he doesn't know the people.

I'll tell you who impacted

the church,

Mark

Dever.

He switched

at nine

marks, and so

I

was

able to go,

but these guys

were

so

individually, and

maybe they

had divided

each

one of them

down.

The thing

about,

as I said,

you're limiting your

resources, and I think that's where

the body...

In fact, let's pick up on the bivocational aspect when we return from our midway break.

We have to go to a midway break right now.

I don't want to cut you off in mid -sentence when you're too deep into the subject.

This is our longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio and 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida

requires of us a longer break in the middle because they have to localize Iron Shepherds Iron Radio to Lake City, Florida,

and therefore they air their own commercials and public service announcements during this break.

So please use this time wisely and write down questions for our guest Rusty Reed on

pastoring a small church, but also please write down the information that's

provided by our advertisers because the more frequently and more successfully that you patronize my

advertisers, the more likely they will remain my advertisers, and that means the more likely I will

remain on the air because I rely upon the advertising dollars that my

sponsors provide in order to exist.

So please write down the information provided by my advertisers and patronize them as frequently

as possible.

And send in those questions to rustyreed at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

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Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASV is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible

translation.

The NASV offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASV is known for.

The NASV is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

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Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the NASV for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use batterydepot .com for all your battery needs.

At batterydepot .com, they're changing the status quo.

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Gotta tell you, for my money, Chris Arnzen's radio program is just the best.

Iron.

Criticizing.

Iron.

I think that's what it's called.

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV with Phil Johnson of Grace to You, inviting

everybody to come to the G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the

country.

And it is.

It's a great conference.

I love it.

And Chris Arnzen was there last year.

He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there.

You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

Tons of stuff going on.

Tons of great speakers.

And no matter where you are in the you will hear Chris Arnzen's laugh.

And that's worth the price of admission alone.

If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers.

So it should be a cavalcade of great preachers and me.

G3conference .com.

G3conference .com.

Chris Arnzen, host of Iron.

Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy.

And currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more

and in approximately 10 different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Meets in midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

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Hello, I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, senior pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi, and I'm hoping that many of you

who listen to Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program will join Chris and me at the Deep

South Founders Conference, Thursday, January 24th through Saturday, January 26th here in

Laurel.

If you love God's Word and love to hear it powerfully preached, I can assure you that you will not be

disappointed.

Our speakers at the Deep South Founders Conference this year include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason

Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and our keynote speaker all the way from Zambia, Dr. Conrad

Mbewe, who has received the nickname the Spurgeon of Africa, and I, for one,

believe it's a very accurate description of Brother Conrad.

For more details, go to deepsouthfounders .com.

That's deepsouthfounders .com.

I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners,

January 24th through January 26th.

Thank you.

Transcribed by https://otter .ai.

Hello,

my name is James Renahan, and I'm the President of IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

The Word of God says, if a man desires the office of an overseer, he desires a good thing.

Do you have the desire to serve Jesus Christ in pastoral ministry?

Twenty years ago, the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies at Westminster Seminary, California was born.

For those two decades, these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in Reformed Baptist

churches.

It's been a wonderful partnership.

Now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to

the Master of Divinity degree.

This is IRBS Theological Seminary.

We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired and inerrant Word of God, that Jesus Christ

is God in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life, death, and resurrection, and that the task of the church is to

honor and serve the triune God in all things.

IRBS Theological Seminary is dedicated by God's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to

these doctrines.

Do you sense a call to serve Jesus Christ in his church as a pastor?

Why not consider IRBS Theological Seminary?

You'll find more information at irbsseminary .org.

That's irbsseminary .org, two S's in the middle.

I hope to hear from you soon.

God bless you.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Shepard's Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books

and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is CVBBS .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at CVBBS .com.

That's CVBBS .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Shepard's Iron Radio.

And don't forget that today is the final day of CVBBS .com's 10

off discount.

Everything in the Christmas sale is available for purchase at CVBBS .com.

This is the final day of the sale, so if you want to take advantage of that sale, go to CVBBS

.com and place your order before midnight.

Also, they have a toll -free number that's available, not for this sale because they've already gone for the day, but

for future purchases, you can call 800 -656 -0231

Monday through Friday from 10 a .m. to 4 .30 p .m. Eastern

Time.

And please always remember to tell Todd and Patty Jennings, the owners of CVBBS .com, that you heard about

them from Chris Aronson on Iron Shepard's Iron Radio.

Also, I want to make sure that you are aware of some important announcements of some important

events, I should say, that are coming up.

First of all, the Iron Shepard's Iron Radio Pastor's Luncheon is coming up.

This is a free event for men in ministry leadership.

This is not open to ladies.

It is strictly a men's ministry luncheon, and it's going to be held, God willing,

Thursday, January 3rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet

Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

The speakers include, or should I say the speaker at this, there's only one speaker,

the speaker at this luncheon is Dr. Tony Costa, the Professor of

Apologetics in Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

His message is going to be on the theme, The Meaninglessness of Life and the Destruction of Western Society

Without God.

You are not only going to get a free lunch and free admission to hear Dr. Tony

Costa speak, but you are also going to be getting free books donated by

almost every major Christian publisher in the United States and the United Kingdom who have been donating

to us books, free books, to give away to pastors every year going all the way

back to the 1990s when I began these luncheons through the inspiration of my

sweet, precious late wife, Julie, whose idea it was originally to treat

pastors to an annual Christmas luncheon and forego

the Christmas gift exchange that she and I had in order to afford to do that.

And this luncheon grew so big that we had to get corporate sponsorship for it.

And we do have the help of our dear friends at BatteryDepot .com,

LinbrookBaptist .org, and NASBible .com, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible,

who have helped us maintain this ever -growing luncheon every year.

So if you'd like to attend the luncheon, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and

put luncheon in the subject line.

That's Thursday, January 3rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall,

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, absolutely free of charge, and there is nothing for sale there at

all.

There's no hidden agenda or ulterior motives.

This is just purely to bless men in ministry leadership with a fun time of relaxation,

great food, a powerful message from a gifted speaker like

Dr. Tony Costa, and to get free books.

I know pastors love free books, and you'll be getting a lot of them, probably two heavy sacks filled with

brand new free books.

These are not donated from a discount bin somewhere that have been used or damaged.

These are brand new books that I actually select all of the titles that we give away at

all of the luncheons.

So please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Dr. Tony Costa is sticking around this area after the luncheon, and he

is going to be speaking at the Enola First Church of God in nearby

Enola, Pennsylvania, where my friend Pastor George Jensen serves as the pastor,

and I'm very excited about this.

It's a conference I helped arrange with Pastor Jensen, and I hope that as many

of you will attend this as possible.

In fact, this is not exclusively for men as the pastor's

luncheon is.

This is open to everyone, man, woman, or child, Christian or non -Christian.

We would love to see you there to hear Dr. Tony Costa speak on Contending for the Faith, the Church in a

Postmodern World.

That's Friday, January 4th through Sunday, January 6th at the Enola First Church of God.

For more details on attending this conference, you can call 717 -732 -4253,

717 -732 -4253, which is the phone number for the Enola First Church of God,

or you could go to their website enolacog .com, e -n -o -l -a -c -o

-g .com, or you could email me as well at chrisarnson at gmail .com and

say, I want to know more about the Tony Costa Seminar or Enola First Church of God event,

however you want to phrase it, just put that in the subject line, and I'll make sure I get back to you.

Later on in that month, the G3 Conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically College Park,

Georgia, a nearby suburb, and the roster is very long and very impressive as

always.

That's going to be Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th at the Georgia

International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia.

They are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people to be there.

I strongly urge you to sign up, not only for attendance, but for an exhibitor's booth, just like I will be manning for the third

year in a row, to take advantage of that crowd of between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people.

If you have a church, parachurch ministry, business, professional practice, or special event

that you want to promote in that crowd of between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people.

The speakers this January include Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen J. Lawson, Voti

Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M. Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, Todd

Friel, and Stephen J. Nichols, the president of Reformation Bible College, the

college that was founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that roster.

For more details, go to g3conference .com.

And as I said, I strongly urge you to not only register for attendance, but register for an exhibitor's

booth.

In fact, when I last heard from them, they had less than 10 spots

left for exhibitor's booths.

So if you want one, I would get on that immediately.

Then coming up after that same month, later on in the month, another conference where I will

be manning an exhibitor's booth.

This time, it will be a first -time experience for me, and that's the conference that we have been

talking about today, the Deep South Founders Conference.

That's going to be held from the 24th of January through the 26th of January on the

theme of sanctification.

That will be held at the Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

I've never even been in Mississippi before in my life, let alone for a Bible conference, so I'm looking forward to this.

These speakers include our guests today, Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason

Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and the keynote speaker, as we mentioned earlier, is Dr. Conrad Mbewe, pastor

of Coboata Baptist Church, Lusaka, Zambia, Africa, and chancellor of African Christian University.

I think he's the most powerful preacher alive on the planet Earth today.

If you want to attend the Deep South Founders Conference, go to deepsouthfounders .com,

deepsouthfounders .com.

Last but not least, if you love Iron Trump and Zion Radio, you look forward to the guests and topics that we have

every day, many of which are never heard anywhere else.

You love sharing the free MP3s with your family, friends, and loved ones, acquaintances,

and business colleagues.

You just can't wait to hear the show every day, whether live or in recorded

fashion.

Then please, if that is the case, please don't let us disappear from the airwaves.

Please help us financially as much as you can, and as frequently as you can, by going to ironsharpenzironradio .com, click

support, then click, click to donate now.

We are heading into another dark period of financial problems.

We can see that there are already bills mounting up that we have not paid, some of which are

already late.

If you could please help us more than ever before by going to ironsharpenzironradio

.com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

You'll be able to donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

If you prefer snail mail, you can mail in a check the old -fashioned way to the address that appears on your

screen when you go to ironsharpenzironradio .com, and you click support.

As I try to remember to tell you every day, please never, ever siphon money away from your regular giving to your

local church where you are a member in order to give to Ironsharpenzironradio, and never put your family in financial

jeopardy by giving to Ironsharpenzironradio.

Those two things are commands of God, providing for church and home.

Providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability

to obey those two commands, then we plead with you to help us remain on the air, if indeed that is your desire,

that we remain on the air.

Go to ironsharpenzironradio .com, click support, then click, click to donate now.

If you'd like to advertise with us, send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line, and I

will help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe on Ironsharpenzironradio.

You don't have to believe identically with me, you just need to be promoting something that is compatible with what we believe.

Also, if you are without a church home and you're not prayerfully looking for one, you are living in rebellion

against God, so please rectify that situation.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I have helped listeners of this program

all over the world to find churches nearby them, so I can help you too, God willing, so send me an

email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put I need a church home or something similar in the subject line.

And now we are back to our guest today, Rusty Reed.

He is pastor of Reformation Church in Baker, Louisiana, a suburb of the

North Baton Rouge, Louisiana area.

We are discussing pastoring a small church and a bivocational ministry.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

If you'd like to join us with a question, that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H

-R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA.

We are now back to our discussion, Rusty, and before the break, you

are just about to enter into one of the key aspects of our theme, a bivocational ministry.

There are even some churches and ministries and organizations,

of course they are a minority in this day and age, but there are some who actually believe that that is the

only way a church can be biblically faithful, is to have either a group of

elders or a singular minister or pastor who is not paid.

That is a minority view, but I don't believe that is the position you're taking.

You're talking about being.

Bivocational by means of necessity,

correct?

That's correct.

Yeah, I would

say bivocational,

at least more.

But even now, I have other jobs.

I managed a brick company for many years.

I'm not doing that anymore, but I do that.

And I do think that not only is that a

viable and

model, but it is advantageous.

It's not just an

advantage.

It's especially

an advantage to bivocational ministry is

that small church,

you've lost

a lot,

but there

are

other advantages

too.

If you have

a Bible, the pastor

is not

occupying you.

If you have a Bible,

then you have also

advantages.

I think

I found

that being

able to be out

and not worry,

I think also

you want to

be that.

I

never wanted to be that kind

of

being

bivocational.

The diluting of your time is the one that immediately springs to mind, whereas pastors that

are fully supported financially by their congregations and do not need to be bivocational have much

more time for study, to prepare sermons, and also to

minister to those in need, to be under shepherds in the flock.

So that would be the immediate one that pops into my mind.

One

thing that

I

don't

want any of our listeners to walk away with.

Thinking is that some churches and some elders

and deacons might be more emboldened to be cheap when it

comes to how they financially support their pastors,

because as you already mentioned, you are not taking this position as a doctrinal

position that is one that one must adhere to, to be biblically faithful like a

tiny minority of Christians do, who believe that it's actually a for a pastor to

be fully financially supported by the congregation.

I don't agree with that at all.

But if you're in a church that does not have that doctrinal position

that I just mentioned, and you believe a pastor should be paid, then it really

has grieved me over the years.

Because one of the reasons I mentioned earlier that my wife

came up with the idea of starting a pastor's luncheon, and that we stopped giving

each other Christmas gifts in order to afford it, was because she recognized that I

have an extraordinarily high percentage, an unusually high percentage of friends

that are pastors, because I've been involved in Christian radio in one way or another most of my adult

life.

And I've gotten to know a lot of pastors, and it grieves me when I see and hear about the fact of

how they abuse their pastors by paying them a

wage, or however you want to say it, by financially supporting them to such a

low level that they're really living basically on either borderline poverty or poverty.

And I know on some of those circumstances it is unnecessary that they're being paid that though.

It's almost as if, in fact it's not just almost as if, it's truly the way some

people think.

That, hey, a guy who is making a corporation

millions of dollars deserves to get paid a very high wage.

A guy that's working hard with a jackhammer or, you know, who's

sweating in physical labor every day, that person also deserves to get

paid a good wage.

But a pastor, I mean, come on, he studies for a message that he gives once or

twice a week, and, you know, some people are so ignorant of the role of the pastor that they think that's all he

does.

But they think, well, I'm not going to give this guy, I don't want to give this guy more money

than just the basic bare minimums of survival.

Well, that's just, that's sinful and wrong, isn't it?

Yeah, and I think that.

He had

everything

too

often.

Well, we're

going

to our final

station

break

right

now.

If

you'd.

Like to join us in the air with a question, please do it quickly before we run out of time.

Our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live

outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing, we'll be right back after these messages.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God, or am I trying

to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750, that's 508 -528

-5750, or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV

program entitled, Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org, that's providencebaptistchurchma .org,

or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio.

James White here, co -founder of Alvin & Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron.

Sharpens Iron Radio.

I'm so delighted.

My friend Chris Arnson will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 Conference from January 17th to the

19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme, A Biblical

Understanding of Missions.

Speakers include John Piper, Steve Lawson, Bodhi Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe,

Phil Johnson, Josh Bice, yours truly, and many more.

I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event.

For more details, go to g3conference .com, that's g3conference .com.

Hello, I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrell, Senior Pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi, and I'm hoping that many of you

who listen to Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program will join Chris and me at the Deep

South Founders Conference, Thursday, January 24th, through Saturday, January 26th, here in

Laurel.

If you love God's Word and love to hear it powerfully preached, I can assure you that you will not be

disappointed.

Our speakers at the Deep South Founders Conference this year include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason

Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and our keynote speaker, all the way from Zambia, Dr. Conrad

Mbewe, who has received the nickname the Spurgeon of Africa, and I, for one,

believe it's a very accurate description of Brother Conrad.

For more details, go to deepsouthfounders .com, that's

deepsouthfounders .com.

I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners,

January 24th through January 26th.

Thank you.

Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages.

Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fellowship, play, and together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church

can be.

Call Lynbrook Baptist at.

516 -599 -9402, that's 516 -599 -9402, or

visit lynbrookbaptist .org, that's lynbrookbaptist .org.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement

to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ

at 631 -385 -8333, that's 631 -385

-8333, or visit lyyfc .org,

that's lyyfc .org.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

I'm Dr. Gary Kimbrough, pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

In the providence of God, three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia, in a township called

Cabanana, who are taking care of 24 orphans.

I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

What was I to do?

Could I just say, God bless you, and walk away?

The situation of the children set heavily upon me.

As I was praying concerning this need, it came to me, I trust from the Lord, to tell the orphans' plight to a broader audience.

The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need.

Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there, so if you give a dollar, a dollar will get to the orphans.

In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi

39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838 Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi

39443, or bbclaurel .com.

Thank you.

Chris Orensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently, he wrote a book titled, Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Botafugo's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest for the entire show has been and will continue to be Rusty Reed, pastor

of Reformation Church in Baker, Louisiana, and also speaker at the upcoming Deep

South Founders Conference.

He is speaking today on the theme, Pastoring a Small Church in a Bivocational Ministry, the

Advantages, Disadvantages, and Challenges, and our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

And Pastor Rusty, we have an anonymous lister who says, I know that many Reformed

churches are opposed to breaking up families where churches

are being attended by parents who send their children off to larger churches

that have larger youth groups and services for children.

Do you have any problem with this practice, or is this something that you can accept?

Break the family up.

You know,

you think

that sometimes.

There might be individual cases where that might be something more acceptable to you.

I'll give you an example.

Let's say a couple are members of a large

church that has some flourishing youth ministry or ministry to teens, and it is

not one that is unfortunately

imitating the model that many of these megachurches have with youth

groups that are completely shallow and devoid of biblical

content or at least biblical depth, and they are really nothing more than glorified babysitters

that allow teenagers to enjoy themselves and have fun, and they have

Christian rock concerts and all those kinds of things, and sporting activities and all that, and I'm not against those

kind of activities.

I have problems with Christian rock concerts.

I used to love them as a new single Christian, but I'm having more and more difficulty with

that venue, but there's nothing wrong with recreation and

activity when it's in its proper place, not during a worship service, but where you have this

family that might be going to a church that has that, and then the parents say, you know, we want to go

to the smaller church because we really have been profoundly blessed by the teaching and preaching of the pastor there,

and where it would be if they were to remove the children or the teenagers from the other

groups, it would be taking away from them something that they were already experiencing.

You follow what I'm saying?

Mm -hmm.

That would give you less of a problem?

Yeah,

sure.

I mean,

they're

always

too often.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, do you think that it is ever

God's...let's see, I'm trying

He has a grammatical error here.

Is it ever God's...if is it ever God's will that a church

remain small and yet still remain in good standing with him, not as

a form of chastisement or some other reason, but do you think that God will ever bless

a church by keeping it small?

Well, I

guess another way of asking it more understandably would be,

is a small church always a sign of God's disapproval upon that

congregation and a sign of chastisement?

No, no.

And again, we have to get back to understanding what's truly not about size.

Well, you know, another advantage of a bivocational pastor just popped into my head because of what we're talking

about right now.

I think bivocational men who are willing and interested in being

that are going to be of great use to the body of Christ.

When a church perhaps is planted and before it has an opportunity to numerically grow

and subsequently financially grow to pay a full -time minister, it's great to have

this resource available that there are men of God out there that are willing to start off anyway as being bivocational.

That's a great point.

And of course, we should be more, and I think, praise God,

Christians in America becoming more, and you

know, you're not going to be able to do

inches.

When we came to friendship, we had in our minds, I

didn't even

know how

good a friend of mine that was, and I teased him that there was a

beauty in what he did.

And I

do

think,

Chris, being a bivocational

pastor is that all too often, bivocational pastors

are not.

And that's why

I did

me in that way,

that he is a

second.

He won't have made it to the big show until he gets a full.

I think that's unfortunate.

I know when I was

that much of giving ministry

until they

got a real job, you know.

Well, I want you to take about two and a half minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our

listeners today.

Okay.

Well, I want to say that in America today,

small,

I

think

there's a lot of

blessed

want to encourage them that they're not second

-class pastors, that they can have long

and even though...

Well, I want to make sure that our listeners remember that if you want to attend the Deep South Founders Conference,

where our guest today, Rusty Reid, will be one of the speakers alongside

of Gerald Henderson, Jason Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and Dr. Conrad Mbewe of Cobuata

Baptist Church in South Zambia, Africa, and Chancellor of the African Christian University, you

can go to this conference by registering at DeepSouthFounders .com,

DeepSouthFounders .com.

And I hope to see you there because, as I said, I will be there for the very first time manning an exhibitor's booth for Arnie

Sharpman's Iron Radio, God willing.

And I am looking forward with great anticipation to being there for the very first time in Mississippi ever in

all of my 56 years of life.

And make sure you get some fried catfish.

Oh, yeah.

Well, I love fried catfish already.

I've had it at Cajun restaurants and other places even up north, but I would love to have the real thing.

Yeah.

And do you have any contact information?

Because I know that your website is under construction and it still has the old name of your church as the URL.

So how would our listeners get in contact with you?

Yeah, thanks.

Contact, of course.

And you can always email me as well at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com and ask me for Pastor Russi Reed's

contact information.

I want to thank you so much for being our guest today.

I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

I hope you all have a safe, blessed, happy, and God -honoring weekend and Lord's Day.

And I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a

far, far greater Savior than you are a sinner.