August 20, 2018 Show with Dr. Thomas J. Nettles on “The Privilege, Promise, Power & Peril of Doctrinal Preaching”

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facing the church and the world today.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 20th

day of August 2018.

I'm delighted to have back on the program an old friend of mine, a returning guest to

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Dr. Thomas J. Nettles is retired now from full -time teaching after 38

years in the classroom, including his most recent post as professor of historical theology at the Southern

Baptist Theological Seminary from 1997 to 2014.

Previously, he taught for 21 years at

Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Mid -American Baptist Theological Seminary, and Trinity

Evangelical Divinity School, where he was professor of church history and chair of the Department of Church

History.

He is an author and editor of a number of books, along with numerous journal articles and

scholarly papers.

And today we are going to be addressing the privilege, promise, power, and

peril of doctrinal preaching.

And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, my friend Dr. Tom Nettles.

And let me give our listeners our email address.

It's chrisarnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you disagree with your own pastor over something involving our

subject today.

Or perhaps you are a pastor.

You disagree with your fellow elders or your congregation or your denomination or fellowship or

association over something, and you'd rather remain anonymous.

We can understand that.

But otherwise, if it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and

state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And Dr. Nettles, oh, by the way, I want to tell our listeners, please take this time also to quickly call,

text, or email pastors and preachers that you know that should take advantage of this

program today and tell them to tune in.

They can hear it anywhere globally via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

Dr. Nettles, you have a long history of teaching, and it primarily is focused

on the issue of church history.

In fact, that seems to be what you've written on primarily over the years.

I love your book, By His Grace and for His Glory.

It is an excellent tool to give, I think, especially to

either non -Calvinistic Baptists and Baptist pastors perhaps who

wrongly think that Baptist history is either devoid of

Calvinistic influence or it is a very rare

stain on the history of Baptists.

Because according to them it would be a stain, obviously we would not view it that way.

And also for those who are Baptists, who are theologically reformed, who

need further encouragement and bolstering in their faith, knowing that they are not alone.

Yeah, I'm

aware we are.

Yeah, it is quite ironic that the Southern Baptist Convention today

is, in its majority, of course many of them wouldn't use the label

for themselves Arminian, but it is in its majority Evangelical Arminian,

or at the very least non -Calvinist.

And yet the history of the Southern Baptist Convention is steeped in Calvinism.

In fact, we're not all the founders of the denomination Calvinists.

Yeah, every

Southern

Baptist

has

pretty

much

the same,

all the writings and

all...

One of the reasons I brought up your expertise in history, and that

being the primary focus of your studies for what appears to be the entirety of

your life as a teacher and professor and author, that you have written this new book

that appears to be something that should be written by a homiletics pastor.

The Privilege, Promise, Power and Peril of Doctrinal Preaching.

If you could tell us why you, someone known as a historian, made

a choice to plunge into this work, this excellent work, and to make it

available to pastors and general Christians alike.

Well, we teach New Testament and Old Testament, try to get scholarly degrees in that.

I'll

give you

a

lot

of

theory.

In history, one of the

things

that I've

tried to

start

with the

preachers,

the flux of

preaching and making it more effective.

So one of

the

things

that

preachers have

had...

I hope to get through all the four Ps of preaching.

In fact, the publisher of this work, Free Grace Press,

has nicknamed the book, The Four Ps of Preaching, even though that's not the official title.

But let's start with the privilege of preaching.

It's an interesting aspect of the title because we

have all heard about pastors, even

in recent days, who have been

caught or exposed in sins that would make them no

longer eligible to hold the office of a pastor or preacher,

at least for a season, if not for the remainder of their lives, depending upon the severity

of the sin.

But some of these pastors and preachers and media

personalities have acted as if the church, the body of

Christ, and even God needs them.

They act as if it is their right to be a preacher, that we would not

exist without them, or we would not continue our course

in a safe path, in a biblical path, or an educated

path, without their assistance.

They act as if this is not a privilege, but a right.

But if you could tell us why you use that term in your title.

Yeah, well, I like that question, and I like the application you've made of it,

even if

it's not one

that we

have...

Now, what do you think, from the biblical data, of course,

are the qualifications for one to be a preacher?

Because, obviously, someone who is not a

pastor or elder, or even a deacon in their church, may, with the approval of their

congregation, preach.

I, for instance, have been invited a number of times, and I'm on a list of people in

the church who has been requested to

preach at a men's shelter in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, the

Bethesda Mission.

And I have preached there, I would say, three times at least, and I have another

preaching engagement on my calendar for them.

I am not a pastor, I'm not even an elder.

Of course, I believe, actually, that those are the same office.

Perhaps you agree, I don't know.

But I'm not a deacon either.

But, obviously, there is not necessarily an identical requirement

for one to be a pastor as it is to be someone who

preaches, although I think that a preacher should not do so without the approval or request of

his own elders.

But if you could.

I think

that we

have

examples

that

are

functional

to

teach

in a

proper way

to

understand

that one part

of...

Do you think perhaps that they should have all of the qualifications

for a pastor, biblically, except for the fact that they may not have a call from God to be a pastor, for that

specific office?

I'm talking about somebody who is just a layperson, for lack of a better term, preaching.

Hello about this.

I think

that

there is

a spiritual giftedness of the church.

God gives him a gift.

He gives him a

desire for this, that

of

the gospel,

but

some

to be

evangelists.

The one

there that

I may

not have

among

all

the people.

Right.

And I'm assuming, though, it would be unwise for a group of elders

or a congregation to approve of someone to

publicly preach if there was scandal going on under their roof or if there were other things that

violated the requirements of a pastor, even though this person was not

intending to be a pastor, was not desirous of being a pastor, but was called

for the task of preaching.

There are still primary things involved in one's requirements to be a pastor

that I think wouldn't apply for anyone representing Christ's church publicly.

Yes.

Now,

this

question has

come up

from time to time in the past.

I'm fairly certain you would agree with me and my convictions of complementarianism

that men solely are to be leaders in the church and they

are the leaders of their household, but obviously wives are to be leaders over their children as well.

Men and women share leadership in the household, but a wife is still submissive to her husband.

But at the same time, even amongst complementarians, there are divisions that come up

where some might say that a woman, as long as she is preaching exclusively to women,

if her audience is designed to be solely female, like if it's a woman's conference

or a woman has a ministry to other women in

prison, and you could go on and on with the settings that would be exclusively women.

Would you say that a woman at those events and in those venues

is permitted to preach to other women?

And if not, what would you call it if she is exhorting and if she is

bringing a biblical message to those women gathered there?

A

woman's...

Really?

Yeah,

I

mean...

Okay, that may legally...

I may be wrong about that.

Well, that may be legally different from county to county and state to state anyway, but...

Right, yeah.

So,

a

woman

to be a

woman

nowadays,

the apologizing to...

Now, how would you distinguish teaching from preaching?

I know that preaching is always teaching, or should I say there is always teaching involved

in preaching, but they are not necessarily the same thing.

But

preaching always...

Teaching can be a dialogic.

You let people ask questions with

teaching,

whereas I view preaching as...

Ben, one thing that I'd like to ask you about the title before we move on to the promised power and

peril of preaching, the subtitle, or it's actually a part of

the title itself, of doctrinal preaching, and if you could tell me why you specified

doctrinal preaching.

You added that word, or should I say you included that word doctrinal in the title, if you could tell us why.

Yeah, well, I view all preaching as doctrinal.

It is,

on the

one hand, I

believe,

even that preaching

has its

own

thing in

a way

that

does

not...

To the way we do it...

We have to go to our first break right now.

If anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S

-A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, at least your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal, private matter.

I have a request.

I'm going to have to rely upon honesty here, but we are giving

away copies of this book, a limited number, of course, to those who write in

questions.

This book that I am speaking about, of course, is the Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Doctrinal Preaching by

Dr. Thomas J. Nettles, our guest today.

I am saying that I need to trust your honesty here, because we're only going

to actually mail the books to those who are either pastors and preachers

themselves, or if they promise to give it to a pastor or preacher or

seminary student, somebody who is actually going to be at some point preaching and is going to be using the book

for that reason.

So you can ask a question, regardless of who you are.

You can ask a question even if you're a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist, or an atheist,

or a Swedenborgianist.

But if you want the book, please only give me your mailing address to receive the book if

indeed you are a preacher, a pastor, or intend, or should I say promise

to give it to one who is a preacher or pastor.

But we're going to our first break right now, and don't go away.

We'll be right back with Dr. Tom Nettles right after these messages from our

sponsors.

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You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

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future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid -Ground -Books .com.

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I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest

on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So I'm delighted that from January 17th through the 19th, my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be

heading down to Atlanta for the G3 conference where I'll be joining James White, Steve

Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice,

and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you all at this very important conference.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth to say hi to Chris.

For more details, go to G3conference .com.

That's G3conference .com.

See you there.

Welcome back, and don't forget to continue to pray for Mike Gaydosch, who is

the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, Solid -Ground -Books .com, a sponsor

of this program, Solid -Ground -Books .com.

He is going in for very serious, very dangerous, very complicated, very delicate open -heart

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This Thursday he goes in to prep for surgery, and this Friday morning, God willing, he

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We will keep you updated on that, and please pray that our great physician, Jesus

Christ, raises Mike up out of that bed when the surgery is complete, a stronger and healthier

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servant and ambassador for Christ because of this trial that he has been placed in.

We are now back with our guest today, Dr. Tom Nettles.

We are discussing his book, The Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Doctrinal Preaching.

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Also, I have an announcement.

If anyone knows of anyone who is an egalitarian or so

-called Christian feminist who would like to have a debate on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with a

complementarian, I would love to use this program as a venue at some point to

have a debate on that subject, since it does divide the body of Christ.

There is a dear sister in Christ with whom I strongly disagree on this issue, Cheryl Schatz,

because of her health situation.

She is a cancer survivor, and she cannot physically, in her opinion,

do an adequate job these days.

She would have loved to have done it before this cancer invaded her life.

But if you know of anybody that you would like to recommend, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail

.com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Well, we do have some listeners who have questions for you.

First of all, we have Chris in Runnels, Iowa.

And Chris says, Thank you for discussing this vital topic of preaching

today.

I would like to hear Dr. Nettle's take on how doctrinal preaching and expositional preaching go hand in hand

and whether they can also be mutually exclusive, meaning can doctrinal preaching

be non -expositional, and can expositional preaching be non -doctrinal?

I think you already answered that last question as far as any preaching being non -doctrinal,

Dr. Nettles.

Also, if you have time, how do we preach doctrinally in a culture where most people have a

second attention span, a two -second attention span?

That really isn't to get at.

There's a worldview,

and then there's a whole.

There is one message in the

Bible all the way to Revelation.

We tend to forget the continuity,

that

learning

what

this text

means

in its

context,

why that text is

people.

If we have not tied the whole framework,

then we

have

sin used

the whole body.

Great.

Well, thank

you, Chris.

And as I said, if you are either a preacher or pastor yourself or intend to give it

to one, let me know in an email confirming that fact, and we will send you a free

copy of The Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Preaching.

Thanks to our friends at Free Grace Press, and also thanks to our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible

Book Service, cvbbs .com, who will actually physically be shipping the book out to you if

indeed you are giving it to a pastor or are one yourself.

Let's see here.

We have Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, and Gordy

has already told us that he plans to give this book to one of his pastors.

He has two questions, actually.

Can and should passion in a sermon be Christ?

Oh, wait a minute.

I think I have to enlarge this because I think that that was a cut -off sentence.

Here it is.

Can and should passion in a sermon be calculated, or should it strictly flow naturally from a man of

God, enthralled with and focused on the glory of Christ?

Oh, that's silly.

Yeah, I guess there are some preachers who have been accused of using theatrics

or putting on a show, but sometimes it might be that they do because they may be, by nature,

very introverted and quiet people.

Maybe they have to, in some way, force themselves to be more powerful and passionate when they preach.

But if you could, that's one of two questions he has.

Yeah.

Okay.

It depends on what you mean by calculated.

Now, if a person doesn't love the gospel,

if of

love

for

the

gospel,

but preaching is also something in which

every preacher theorizes about

how

some

people, like

Lex say 1, 2, 3,

can calculate to do one or the other without it being insincere.

Everything that these

hearers,

what

Dyer

surfaced

upon,

is not going to be contrived, but there is

the

affections

of the people.

But the

preacher

is supposed

to be

calculating,

thinking about the impact.

Gordy's second question is, David W. Wanders asserted that it is

against this backdrop of revivalism that Edwards' pastoral concern must be seen.

He was a heart, a pastor.

He was, at heart, a pastor.

Part of being a faithful pastor is being a faithful preacher.

Please share how Edwards balanced these two roles.

Well,

everyone

was

there.

If

someone would

seek

people,

the

true

application of

them

to the wife

and applying

them...

Well, thank you, Gordy.

You have won a free copy of The Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Doctrinal Preaching

by our guest, Dr. Thomas J. Nettles.

Since you live in Mechanicsburg, and you live so close to the Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service on North Hanover Street in Carlisle,

please swing by there at your convenience later this week.

It is already there, or I should say the copies that we're giving away are already there.

So you can swing by and pick it up.

Just tell them that you are Gordy from Mechanicsburg who won a free copy of the program

on Iron Sharpener's Iron Radio.

And we have a question.

Let me see what time it is, because we may have to go to our midway break.

Oh, we do have to go to our midway break.

We're going to go to our midway break right now, and before we do that, we'll

remind you of our email address, and we'll get to you after the break.

Our listener Brandon, we'll get to you after the break, so don't be too concerned.

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Well, this is our elongated break.

I just wanted to let you know this is a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida,

requires of us a longer break because they air their own commercials and public service

announcements during this break.

So please use this time to write down questions for Dr. Nettles and also write down the information provided by our advertisers

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Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Hi, Phil Johnson here.

I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You.

And I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So I'm delighted that from January 17th through the 19th, my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be

heading down to Atlanta for the G3 Conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve

Lawson, Voti Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice,

and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.

Chris Arnzen and I hope to see you all at this very important conference.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth to say hi to Chris.

For more details, go to g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com.

See you there.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

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Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup,

sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

If you are a lover of the doctrines of Sovereign Grace, you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to

FirstLoveRadio .org.

They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological

soundness and biblical faithfulness, such as Dr. W .R. Downing, Dr. Peter Masters,

Pastor Joe Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Delcor, and

more.

FirstLoveRadio .org also live streams my Iron Trepans Iron Radio program daily.

Please stick around on FirstLoveRadio .org after Iron Trepans Iron Radio is over to continue

being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the Gospel of Sovereign Grace.

Spread the word about FirstLoveRadio .org.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about an hour to go is Dr.

Thomas J. Nettles.

We are discussing his book, The Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Preaching.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

We are giving away a limited number of copies of the book that we

are discussing today.

Compliments of our friends at Free Grace Press and also compliments of our friends at

CVBBS .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

But these are reserved only for either pastors and preachers or for those who promise to give their

copy to a pastor or preacher or seminary student, somebody who's actually going to be using the book

for preaching.

So we have to obviously rely on your honesty for this.

So please be honest, as you always should be.

Before we return to Dr. Nettles, we just have a few announcements for special events

that are coming up that you need to know about.

First of all, I have arranged a couple of events in Jacksonville, Florida that I hope that

you join me in attending.

The first is being held at the Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary in Jacksonville, Florida.

It's their Jacksonville campus.

And they are having an event featuring my dear friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries and his

dear friend, Dr. Michael L. Brown of the Fire School for Ministry and also the Line of

Fire radio program.

They are going to be both lecturing on the theme, A House Mended, Christian

Unity in a Culture of Outrage.

That's going to be Friday night, September 7th at 6 .30 p .m. at the Jacksonville, Florida campus of Gordon

Conwell Theological Seminary.

For more details, go to SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org.

That's SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org.

They are co -sponsoring this event with Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Then the following night, Dr. White and Dr. Brown are teaming up once again, this time

for a debate.

They are debating two homosexuals who are ordained ministers and professing Christians.

The debate theme is, Is Homosexuality Consistent with New Testament Obedience?

That's Saturday night, September 8th at 6 .30 p .m. at the Switzerland Community Church

in Switzerland, Florida.

Once again, for more information, go to SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org, SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org.

Then, coming up in November on the 9th and the 10th, the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals

is having their conference known as the Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

The theme is, The Glory of the Cross, and the speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortland, Richard Phillips,

Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Winn.

That's November 9th and the 10th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

For more details, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org.

And then, coming up in January, from January 17th through the 19th, that's

Thursday, January 17th, through Saturday, January 19th, the G3 Conference returns to

Atlanta, Georgia, more specifically College Park, Georgia, at the Georgia International

Convention Center.

I will be there, God willing, at Manning, and at Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio booth for my third year in a row.

I love being there.

It is one of my favorite of all conferences of all time.

They are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people to be there.

The theme is, The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions.

Keep in mind, for your Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends, there is an exclusively Spanish

edition of the conference on Wednesday, January 16th, so you might want to tell them about that.

But, as far as the English conference is concerned, these speakers include Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega

Ministries, John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Voti Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M.

Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, whose voice you just heard advertising this event.

He is the executive director of John MacArthur's Grace to You ministry.

Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 Conference, and we have Todd Friel of

Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, David Miller, who is a brother who endorsed this book that we're

discussing today, The Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Doctrinal Preaching.

He is a phenomenal preacher himself.

Jeremy Volo, a good friend of mine, who pastors in Texas.

Dr. Stephen J. Nichols, who is the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries.

And the list goes on and on.

It's a very long roster of impressive names.

If you would like to register, not only to be an attendee of this event, but also to register for an exhibitor's booth,

just like I will have, to have your business or ministry present in a crowd of between

4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people, then go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com,

and please tell all of these organizations that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Last but not least, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves,

please go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click, click to

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Iron Radio.

And if you're not a member of a local Bible -believing church, and you're not prayerfully seeking for one, you are living in rebellion against God,

I can help you find one.

I've helped a number of people in this audience find churches near them all over the world.

So I have lists of biblically faithful churches globally.

If you're having a hard time, I can help you find a church.

But please never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church to give to Iron Sharpens Iron.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy.

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If you want to advertise with us, we would love to help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting

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We would love to make use of those advertising dollars to help us remain on the air.

So send an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

And you could also use that email address to send in a question to our guest.

That's Dr. Thomas J. Nettles.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And please, as always, give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

By the way, this is a reminder to listeners that send in questions frequently.

Please always include your city and state or country of residence, even if you've written to me a million times.

I don't have that great of a memory.

I'm not going to be able to remember where you're from necessarily.

So when you send in a question, we like to give an idea to our listeners of the breadth

of our audience as far as where our listeners are from.

So please always include your city, state, and country of residence unless you're writing in

anonymously.

Now we will go to our listener in Franklinton, North Carolina.

That is Brandon.

And Brandon says, I may be wrong in my assessment of most preaching today, and I am open to correction,

but it seems to me that the focus has shifted from what is being preached to how

it is being preached.

I do not mean to dismiss the importance of delivery and preaching and passion, but it seems

we've lost our focus.

There's a sense in which preaching has become more of a performance than a communication of God's

truth.

Could you ask Dr. Nettles, if he agrees with this assessment, if so, how do we get there, or

get here?

Other than this book on this topic, are there men from history we can go to for guidance on this issue?

And that's Brandon in Franklinton, North Carolina.

Yeah,

well,

to be quite

someone

who

actually

is content,

and I'm tempted

though, voice

qualities that

are, people

will

laugh,

because

it's

regularly

what

Paul, he

said, of the way in

which

he

may be

more

audience

-centered,

operate in a different way.

So, yeah,

I think it's a very...

Yes, and not everybody views theatrical, that adjective, in the same way.

For instance, someone might not view a pastor that is speaking like a motivational

speaker or like a secular counselor,

which I've seen many modern speakers do, because they think that that is what, in fact, perhaps

they're correct, that that is what a modern audience prefers.

But I think it's just as wrong if you are doing anything that takes away

from the awe and reverence and urgency and power of the gospel of Jesus Christ,

by using a methodology that

lessens those things, or even avoids those things.

We need to be preaching to people, knowing that many of them are going to be spending an eternity in hell.

We need to be warning them about this, and we need to be rejoicing over the fact that we have been provided a

remedy from this sin that is sending us to an eternity in hell, and that is the person and work of

Jesus Christ.

Am I right?

You could possibly be wrong, Chris.

Well, some might say that the manner in which you tell people the facts of the gospel is not really important, but I

disagree with that.

Oh, no, and that's what we were getting at about the way

he preached, go beyond what the

actual truth was.

He said

somewhat

about

the

main

governing...

that we want to communicate...

know what that... and

what it requires.

Now, you mentioned something about Edwards, that he

was being criticized for, did you say, pouring too much passion into his

sermons?

Is that what you were saying?

Yep.

The thing that surprises me about that, and perhaps this is because sinners in the hands of an angry God

was a unique circumstance, but I had heard that he read the sermon from

a piece of paper, or pages of paper, and he did not

exert any passion in the message, and read it very deadpan, for lack of a better

term.

Is that true, with that sermon at least, that he did read it in that fashion?

It comes from a description, Samuel, that

I think misinterprets.

He also, his theory of preaching, a deep involvement...

has a major section in which he talks about how people have complained about

the exuberance of the preachers, and the

fact... and Edwards goes

into it, and he seems to be defending himself,

because he's writing this right after he had preached.

He quotes, though, on the

preaching,

he was speaking, and

attended with a more...

so consider preaching in general...

to

use his... engage

your... defended that

kind of...

Well, thank you very much, and now we go on to our next listener,

Angela, in Poplar, Wisconsin, and once again, Angela, let us know if you are

intending to give a copy of this book to your pastor.

The Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Doctrinal Preaching, by our guest, Thomas J. Nettles.

Angela says,.

How providential that after being recommended to Dr. Nettles twice recently,

I saw the advertisement on Facebook for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Of course, either of you are welcome to answer my question.

I am wondering about the book referenced by Leonard Van Duren,

and it is The Reformers and Their Stepchildren.

And she says,.

More specifically, I am wondering about his claims regarding the Donatists

during the early centuries of Christianity.

Verduin claims that they opposed civil involvement in the church and were opposed to taking up arms.

However, others have said that they merely curried the favor of the state

and even asked for their involvement in taking up arms against their enemies.

I am wondering if it is possible to say which view is correct, or whether people have merely interpreted various events

about the Donatists in different ways.

Unfortunately, this book was developed from lectures Verduin had given, and this

section of the book is not well documented, which is the difficulty and the concern.

I do believe that the majority of the book, as it relates to the various Anabaptist groups and the Magisterial Reformers, is

accurate and much more well documented.

I do believe that it can be determined that the Anabaptists were derogatorily labeled Donatists

due to the thinking passed down through the centuries about the group.

But I am not positive that the original Donatists were actually Orthodox.

On the whole, I am not speaking of exceptions or cultic splinter groups.

I love the book, but I do not want to recommend this section if it is not accurate.

I have heard very good things about this book.

Perhaps some of our Paedo -Baptist friends would not be as eager to promote it.

But it is interesting, Verduin was a Paedo -Baptist.

And my friend James White heartily recommends it.

I do not know if he agrees with everything in it, but he does heartily recommend it.

What are your thoughts on the book, and if you could comment on our listeners' questions about it.

Yes, I will just

briefly comment on what he thought

was

important,

the way he held it, and the

reason

why you do not

have as many

of them.

But what I know about them were the

ones who had

separated

because they

did not like

the way in which

the ordination industry

was.

And so they existed from

those who would

like,

might

not

be

available.

And would you agree that the Anabaptists have been sadly broad -brushed

as one monolithic group when they had many different, there were, and in fact even still are,

many different types of Anabaptists, those who have been labeled Anabaptists

against their wishes, or those who welcomed the label.

There are differences.

There are some that were anarchists.

There were some that were polygamists.

There were some that were very biblically orthodox in many respects.

So it's not one group of monolithic people.

And

then you

have

those, all of

these

separation

of

church.

Well, thank you, Angela, in Poplar, Wisconsin.

Please let us know whether or not you intend to give the book to your pastor or a

pastor that you know or a seminary student or somebody who preaches, and we will then ship it out to you, or should I

say that Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, will ship it out to you.

And we thank, once again, Free Grace Press for providing us with the free copies of

this book.

We're going to our final break right now.

If you'd like to join us, I would suggest strongly that you speak now or forever hold your peace because we're

rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s

-a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing, we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back, this is Chris Arnzen.

We are now back with our remaining 15 minutes of the show today with Dr. Thomas J. Nettles on

his book The Privilege, Promise, Power, and Peril of Preaching.

Dr. Nettles, if you could, let us know about what you mean by the promise of preaching.

Well, the promise is...

And now let's

move on

to

what

you mean by.

The power of doctrinal preaching.

Now, it just went over my head for a second what you were speaking of in regard to the Church of Christ.

If you could repeat that, I'm sorry.

Well, there was a movement in the...

Yes,

and

of course

in

the

21st

century.

Especially the churches known as the Church of Christ, the Campbellite

movement of course they don't use that phrase themselves the Restorationist movement they use

today.

They are not monolithic and they probably never were really monolithic but they are far less

monolithic today.

Right.

And you have a wide range today of going from liberal to

cultic and you even have some that you could barely distinguish from your average

evangelical church and believe it or not.

I don't know if you have, but I've met they are a minority, but I've met some sovereign grace believing ministers

in the Church of Christ.

Yeah, well I was obviously and I'm certain as you say there's a

the largest church in the

Campbellite movement.

That's a part of

my theme of

this book.

He argues

that

what we

observe

is absolutely devoid of anything.

Which heretical book by him are you talking about?

Well, I read two of them entirely.

One of the hardest things I ever read.

Your Best Life.

Now perhaps?

No, You Can, You Will is one of them.

Okay.

That's alright, we don't expect to find any pearls of biblical wisdom in there.

As John MacArthur very aptly put it if your best life is now, that means you're going to hell.

Yeah, that's right.

If you can't take it logically and consistently without coming to that

conclusion.

Well, let's go to the peril now of preaching before we run out of time.

Yeah,

well that's

what, that's the

way.

And he was a very clear, he set himself.

And against the Bible.

Yeah, and so, and that effect

pervasive with his doctrines didn't

make it into

a event, it

was.

Yes, and Jerry Johnson, actually I don't know if you would agree with Jerry but from what

I have read from Finney I think he was accurate, he said that Finney was a monergist,

not in a good way believing that salvation is of the Lord but in the opposite way that

salvation is solely of man.

Yeah, that's a good characterization.

Yeah, and we have time for one more listener.

We have John in Bangor, Maine who says that I

know that there is a strong strain of hyper -Calvinism amongst the primitive Baptists and I am

also acknowledging that the primitive Baptists today are a very small sect but I think it is

worthy to research their beliefs so that we who believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace don't

repeat the same errors that they teach.

And of course I do not intend to broad brush but it seems to me that the preaching of the

gospel according to the primitive Baptists since they completely remove

man's will in any way, shape or form being a factor in the person

becoming a born -again believer that the preaching is not used of

God to bring forth life from dead sinners but is merely used to

comfort the sheep.

Is this an accurate description of the predominant thread amongst them.

And is this not a danger that we who believe in Calvinism or Reformed theology or sovereign

grace must avoid at all costs?

Yeah, well that's a very good...

The point is

not to admonish

their people

but according to a personal

duty that

we have to do

everything

wrong.

Right, I think that they wrongly equate predestination and election with

regeneration and justification and other aspects of salvation because obviously our will had nothing at

all to do with our being predestined or elected but does not God use as his

means his tool, the preaching of the gospel to regenerate the

souls of the lost and those who are dead in their sin?

Well, we are out of time.

I want to make sure that our listeners have all the information they need to know in regard to getting

this book.

You can get this book The Privilege, Promise, Power and Peril of Doctrinal Preaching from our sponsors

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CVBBS .com.

CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible Book Service dot com.

By the way, if you order $50 or more worth of merchandise from them and mention Iron Trepans Iron Radio you will get

free shipping on the entire order and you will also receive a free book by Stuart Scott

from Pride to Humility.

You'll get that free by ordering $50 or more.

We thank the folks over at Free Grace Press for providing us with these books.

Do you have any other contact information or websites that you care to share?

Oh, me?

Yes.

You're not talking to anybody else, are you?

I'm talking to you, brother.

Oh, well, no I don't.

I just appreciate you having me on.

I have you.

Yes, well he is retired from his position at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary so

you cannot contact him through there anymore.

Yes, I can, you can.

Oh, you can?

I'm a senior professor.

Oh, OK.

And would they get that from sbts .edu?

That's right, T. Nettles at sbts .edu.

OK, great.

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Nettles for being our guest today.

I look forward to you coming back on the show.

In fact, we shouldn't wait so long to have you come back.

I hope you come on frequently in the future.

And I want to thank everybody who listened today especially those who took the time to write in questions.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.