February 8, 2021 Show with Gary DeMar & Dr. Joe Morecraft on “Does the Current Rise of Leftist Tyranny Mean the End is Near?”

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And it's not as if those that have all kinds of end times theories and predictions and conspiracy theories and all kinds of things in the nature of predictions of the return of Christ and the end of the world, it's not like they need any help coming up with these fantastical ideas that the end is with certainty right around our corner.

But the rise of leftism in America, in fact, globally, has given even more ammunition for those who believe the end is very near, literally, to start making the warnings that they have been making for centuries.

And it is always, eventually, when enough time elapses, to the great embarrassment of the body of Christ.

But we have someone to discuss this today. For the first hour, we have Gary DeMar of American Vision to discuss this, and in the second hour, to continue the same theme as Dr.

Joe Moorcraft, who is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia. They will both be discussing,

Does the Current Rise of the Leftist Tyranny Mean the End is Near? And first of all, let me welcome to the program, once again, one of my favorite guests of all time, the president of American Vision, Gary DeMar.

Good to be back with you, Chris. It's been a little while. Yes, it has, and I am so glad that you are recovering from your health issues and that you are recovering so well that your wife said, enough is enough.

I am sick and tired of hearing you whine and complain, you can't use it as an excuse anymore.

Yes, I used to bring something up, and I said, Carol, come on, I just had my left kidney taken out.

I mean, give me some slack here. But geez, anyway, it's all done in death, so, but anyway,

I can't, I could use it for maybe, I think I could use it maybe like two hours after I got home from the hospital.

And that was the end of that. No, I'm back, and I'll tell you, you have to marvel at what has happened in the medical profession.

I know a lot of people are so critical of the medical profession. You know, there's, you know, everything is always, there's always something to complain about.

Nobody's perfect. It's just the nature of things. But, you know, years ago when you had a,

I had a cancerous growth on my left kidney, and because it was right smack dab in the middle of my kidney, right where the blood vessels, you know, came in, that there was no way to excise the growth without severely damaging the kidney.

And so, I had my whole kidney removed. And years ago, they would essentially just kind of slice you from your back to your front on the side, remove a couple of ribs and go through muscle and so forth to extract the kidney.

And now, they use, it's a robot. In fact, you can look it up online, the

Da Vinci robot. And they just make little, you know, incisions and insert instruments basically underneath all the muscle and the tendons and so forth.

And the doctor sits in front of a console. He can see everything because the camera goes in first.

And, of course, and then they extract the kidney by making a little larger incision, take all that out.

I was up and walking around, you know, the day of the surgery. I was home in two days.

And it's amazing. It's just amazing what can be done today.

And so, we as Christians should be thankful for all these advancements in the medical field.

Well, I'm going to give our listeners right away because you can only be on with us for the first hour.

I'm going to give our listeners right away our email address if you have any questions or comments about this very timely theme,

Does the Current Rise of Leftist Tyranny Mean the End is Near? ChrisArnzen at gmail .com,

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. So, Gary, have you heard of any new end -time theories, predictions, prophecies as a result of the victory of Joe Biden?

And when I say that, I don't mean to convey the idea that I think he legitimately won the presidency, although I'm not totally ruling that out either.

But I seriously doubt it. But he is, right now, the

President of the United States. It's not that I've seen or heard of any particular date for this or that.

I think there was one, I think somebody posted a date. It's just the kind of, and this isn't everybody, just keep this in mind.

I've just noticed that so many people are, and this is mostly on Facebook, are making these statements about this is all, this is just, everything is lining up for the return of Jesus and the rapture of the church.

And it's just like, come on people, where have you been on all of this?

This isn't to dismiss or to lay aside the fiasco of this last election.

It's just like, this has been going on literally for centuries, almost two millennia.

Something bad politically comes up, a war takes place, and immediately the, in fact there's an article here,

I don't know if I can find it, yeah, real quick. It's called The Comedy of Errors.

And this guy writes, Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin did more to expose the errors of some of our futuristic interpreters of Daniel and Revelation than any of the three persons on this side of perdition.

It has been amusing to watch some of our fundamentalist friends hopping around from one position to another like a tomcat on a hot rock in their frustration and desperation to make the swift changing world events conform to the unscriptural, futuristic interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation.

And I'm not sure, I don't know if I've got the date for this, but it isn't anything recent that this article was, well actually it was 1983.

So this article was published in 1983, and it's kind of funny, and it goes through these examples about people making these predictions.

And that's the thing, you go back, Adolf Hitler rises to power, and look I have a very very large library, in particular

I have a very large library of prophetic materials as well as file cabinets full of articles.

And the same types of things you're hearing today about the

Biden presidency, the Democrats, the cancel culture and so forth, have been in the news in the 20th century.

And even like the Left Behind novels, there was a series of Left Behind -like novels almost a hundred years ago.

So what we're seeing here is nothing new. Of course Hal Lindsey came out with his book in 1970,

The Late Great Planet Earth, laid out all the things, Russia was the bad guy, and so forth.

And it gets very frustrating because I think what it does, it immobilizes

Christians because they say, well this is a prophetic inevitability, there's not much we can do about this except for to pray, and it diminishes the integrity of the

Bible as well. Yeah, let me also do a little damage control here about something

I said. When I said that I held out some possibility that Joe Biden legitimately won the election,

I don't mean by that that I believe there was no fraud involved. I'm just saying that there's a,

I'm just holding out a possibility that even despite fraud, which I am convinced there was much of it, that he may have won legitimately, but I'm not even concerning myself with that right now,

I'm just saying that this has been possibly the spawning of another or more end times theories.

Now, why do you think that this is so harmful to the body of Christ?

Why is this harmful to our witness to the lost? Why is it harmful to humanity in general?

To come up with these predictions that Christ is certainly returning soon.

I mean, I am, let me also make it clear to my listeners, even though I love Gary and have him on frequently,

I am not yet convinced of post -millennialism. I'm an optimistic amillennialist. I do believe that there is a possibility of Christ returning at any time, but I share the abhorrence that Gary has and that many post -millennialists have of people popping up with false predictions of Christ's soon return and the end of the world being very soon because of current events that are taking place, especially knowing that things have been far worse in our history than they are right now.

But if you could, Gary, pick up on why is this such a harmful thing? Well, first of all, you don't have to be a post -millennialist to be critical of,

I wouldn't, this isn't so much date setting, no one is setting a date, but this perennial claim that all the signs are lining up, that Jesus has to be,

His coming has to be near, it's got to be near. And because you've had critics from all different types of millennial perspectives, pre -mill, all -mill, and post -mill, and so this isn't anything new.

The criticisms of this type of thing have been around for a very long time.

And what it does, first of all, calls into question the authority of the Bible. You've got

Christians going out there and saying everything is lining up for the second coming of the

Christ or the rapture. And here what I read was something from 1983.

That's almost 40 years ago. And someone comes up and says, wait a minute, you said this 40 years ago.

And in fact, we published a book called The Day and the Hour. People said that 60 years ago.

People said it 80 years ago. People said it 100 years ago. 150, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600 years ago.

Using the same Bible verses that people are using today. This is like the boy who cried wolf.

You do this enough, and a lot of people just completely dismiss the Bible as authoritarian because it's continually used to make the same case for something that people have made in the past.

And also, I just think it's bad theology. The passages that they're looking at, claiming that these line up with what's taking place today,

I don't think there's any support for it. And so, and you made the point as well, historically, things have been a whole lot worse in the world.

We've gone through two world wars in the 20th century, and of course, prophetic speculators were rampant back then.

We had communism, atheistic communism. Think about Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe was officially atheistic for the longest time because of the advance of communism.

And yet, you will find many, many countries in Eastern Europe, like Hungary and Poland, being much more theologically astute on the abortion issue than we are here in the

United States. Now, the United States isn't the kingdom of God. If the

United States goes communistic and so forth, that doesn't mean it's the end of the world and Jesus is coming back soon.

There are probably more Christians in China than there are here in the United States. And we have no idea what's happening in the continent of Africa in terms of Christianity.

And you're speaking of legitimate, regenerate, genuine Christianity. Oh yeah. My wife and I, with about 20 other people, were in China a number of years ago.

And it was amazing the number of Christians we met over there. Really rock -solid

Christians meeting in homes. They would put

Christians in the United States to shame, especially the men. We were just fabricated to see how strong they were in the faith.

College students and so forth. And of course, I think that's why you're seeing the persecution of Christians taking place in China, because it's fearful.

They're fearful of these Christians. In fact, one of the reasons we were asked to go over there was to assure the

Chinese governments in these various provinces that Christianity is not a revolutionary faith.

We don't extend the kingdom through the power of the sword. And so I think the

Chinese government is relatively fearful of Christianity because they see it like Pontius Pilate saw it in the way that Jesus was being purposed by his enemies.

So he's a king. He's going to come over here and he has these zealots and of course

Peter has a sword and so forth and so on. So anyway, we don't know what's going on around the world.

There's a passage out of 2 Timothy that I quote on a regular basis which is of course 2

Timothy is the second epistle written to Timothy and this is written directly to Timothy and I find people quoting this particular passage down through verse 7, 2

Timothy chapter 3 verse 7 but realize this in the last days difficult times will come.

Paul is not talking about some distant event. He's talking about the last days of the old covenant that was coming to a close which is the book of Hebrews is all about.

And he talks about men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant and I'm reading from the

New American Standard Version revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable but it goes on and on and on all the way down to verse 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth and you find people saying see this is what's taking place in our day but that's not what

Paul was writing to Timothy about. He was writing to Timothy about what was taking place in his day but you can't stop at verse 7 and go to verse 8 and just as Janice and Jambres opposed

Moses so these men also opposed the truth men of depraved mind rejected as regards the faith and so Janice and Jambres were the two sorcerer high priests who confronted

Moses and Aaron when Moses and Aaron confronted Pharaoh so they came in with literally a dead stick in their hand that's all they had and the threat of judgment from God and confronted the most powerful emperor, kingdom in the world at that time and what happens in the next verse but they will not make further progress for their folly will be obvious to all as also that of those who came to be so in the midst of crisis in the midst of unbelief in the midst of treacherous, reckless, conceit lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God holy to a form of godliness, etc what

Paul says here they will not make further progress for their folly will be obvious to all as unbelievers become more and more consistent with their unbelieving thoughts the only thing that can happen to them is self -destruction and I won't read the rest of the chapter but Paul tells

Timothy what he needs to do while this inevitable collapse takes place and unfortunately

Christians just kind of sit back and say well Jesus is coming soon all we can do is just pray and wait for the return of Jesus there's nothing we can do to change anything that is not a scriptural attitude at all now there is a phenomenon that does exist where some people take a 180 degree opposite position to what you just said they're not saying why bother polishing the brass on a sinking ship but they elevate politics and governing authorities even though they might not ever say this or admit that they think this but they elevate our hope in politics to such a high degree that they make idols and even messiahs out of elected officials

I mean there are people who I believe were bordering on that if not even leaping far over the border of making

Trump out to be an idol or a little messiah or a big messiah I've been doing this for a long time and I know a lot of people as you know

I wrote three books called God and Government which

I found one volume and so I've been in the midst of all of this and I have to say that all the people

I know and the reason the reason people the reason

Christians voted for Trump and the people I know I can't speak for everyone they were sick and tired of the

Republicans making these promises about what they were going to do now keep in mind my involvement in politics is not to take over politics and use the power of government to then put in our worldview my whole thing has always been about getting involved in politics to decrease the power of civil government to return things to the states and the counties to stop the spending stop the war stop giving away our money to foreign governments all it does is make the people dependent on foreign powers bring our troops home and so forth that's not a messianic way of looking at government and again all the people

I've talked to these Republicans have been talking big time about all this stuff they're going to do and keep in mind when

Trump became president in 2016 we had the Senate we had the House of Representatives and the

GOP for the most part didn't do anything they didn't attempt to drain the swamp they opposed

Donald Trump on so many different things I really don't believe that the vast vast majority of people who voted

Donald Trump saw him as a messianic figure and a lot of them saw him as kind of a

Cyrus a figure but even that I think even the word

Messiah was attributed to them as kind of a temporary savior like you find in the book of Judges but again

I think it was the frustration level of Republicans and we can see it right now we got

Ben Sasse continuing to complain about Donald Trump who's out of office when the literal political enemy that we have right now is the

Democrat Party and I'm sorry if there are some listeners on here who voted for the Democrats but the

Democrat Party its policies are contrary to almost everything

Christians should be believing in supporting killing unborn babies forcing us our tax dollars to fund this supporting transgenderism and saying that men who claim to be women can now compete in women's sports this is beyond politics this is insanity in fact

Biden's satanic approval of children even preteens getting surgery and hormone therapy to so called change their gender as if that were possible this is insane it's satanic and by the way

I never meant to give the impression that I think the majority by any stretch of the imagination of Trump supporters viewed him that way

I'm just saying there can exist a tendency to be on the opposite extreme of not wanting to polish the breasts on a sinking ship

I agree but again you can see a problem in one area and the solution is to swing the pendulum so far in the other area as to say well now this fixes the problem it doesn't fix the problem

I'll give you a good example of this from the old testament when Israel got into the land they suffered their first defeat at Ai and you know it was because of that as a result it was the first time that a number of Israelites were killed in this of course

God had promised them we're going to give you the land it's yours and all of a sudden oh my we just lost some of our men here in verse 6 of Joshua chapter 7 it says then

Joshua tore his clothes and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the Lord until the evening both he and the elders of Israel and they put dust on their heads and Joshua said alas oh

Lord God why didst thou ever bring this people over the Jordan only to deliver us into the hands of the

Amorites to destroy us if only we had been willing to dwell beyond the Jordan oh

Lord what can I say since Israel has turned their back before their enemies for the

Canaanites and all the inhabitants of the land will hear of it and they will surround us and cut off our name from the earth and what wilt thou do for thy great name now the first thing of course a lot of Christians say we need to pray about all this and I agree we need to pray about this but let's listen to what

God said verse 10 of Joshua chapter 7 so the Lord said to Joshua rise up why is it that you have fallen on your face

Israel has sinned and they have also transgressed my covenant which I commanded them basically what you're saying here is get to work and fix the problem you've prayed you've been on your face now it's time to get up and get to work and unfortunately

I just think there are a lot of Christians out there who have this kind of super spirituality out there you know

I'm praying and all we can do right now is pray this is Romans 13 which is supposed to go along with whatever the government says we ought to do we just need to go along that's just plain nonsense the

Bible does not teach that at all so the full context of this is very very important you've got people on one side saying the end is near Jesus is coming back soon all the signs are there we shouldn't put polished brass on a sinking ship and the other people say we don't want to get too involved politically because we're going to turn it into an idol so all we're going to do is over here and pray you put the whole thing together and there's a middle solution to this

I hate to say it's a middle solution to it but it's a more biblical solution because it takes in the whole context of what

God's word says about the situation that we're in right now we're in the position we're in right now because millions of Christians don't vote millions of Christians aren't involved in politics millions of Christians don't have the slightest idea anything about economics they have false perceptions of separation between church and state you can't impose your morality on other people we're not supposed to judge it goes on and on and on so there's a great deal

I think of ignorance among Christians about how to deal with evil when it comes in fact we have to go to our first break right now if anybody wants to join us chrisarnson at gmail .com

is the email address chrisarnson at gmail .com we'll be right back with Gary DeMar after these messages

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, Gary DeMar is our guest for the first hour to discuss a very important theme, ìDoes the current rise of leftist tyranny mean that the end is near ?î

If you want to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

You said before the break that you reluctantly were going to use the phrase, ìThere is a by avoiding the lunacy of extremes on both ends of the spectrum ,î if you want to pick up where we left off.

Well, again, I just think that both of them are wrong on their face, and thereís no way to say, ìOh, weíre going to take a little bit of this and a little bit of that .î

I just think this preoccupation with the end time, Christians just need to get out of it. Itís been done and overdone, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that young Christians donít know that this has been done before, and how bad it is.

I mean, go back to this article called ìThe

Comedy of Errorsî that was written in 1983, and he writes, ìIn 1934,

Benito Mussolini sent his black -shirted fascists down into defenseless Ethiopia, and preachers all over the country got up in their pulpits and preached spellbinding sermons that had their congregations bulging at the eyes in astonishment about Mussolini the

Antichrist .î Insert here, there was a book that was published in 1926 by Oswald Smith that Mussolini was the

Antichrist. And of course, the author of this article goes on to say, ìAnd to prove their point, they quoted from Daniel 1143, which says, ìAnd the

Ethiopians shall be at his steps .î Later, ìBenito, whimpering, was hung by his own countrymen, and preachers all over America had to toss their sermons into the scrap basket as unscriptural .î

Now, Oswald J. Smith, when he went out and spoke after, of course, this happened, he would attempt to buy back copies of his book, because it was so wrong.

And the passages that people are using today in an attempt to say that this person is the

Antichrist, or this event is an indication that Jesus is coming soon, they were using the same passages back then.

And Mussolini, back then, seemed to be the Antichrist, because a lot of people believed that the

Antichrist was going to come up out of the Roman Empire. Then on March 11, 1938, Adolf Hitler sent his brown -shirted

Nazi stormtroopers into Austria. Then he took Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, North Africa, and the

Holocaust of World War II was raging like the fires of the netherworld. Preachers all over America got up in their pulpits and preached spellbinding sermons that had their congregations bulging at the eyes about Hitler the

Antichrist. Then the Anglo -Saxon, then the Anglo -Saxon Israel nations drove Hitler out of North Africa, out of Italy, out of France, out of Belgium, out of the

Netherlands, out of Norway, out of this world. And preachers all over America had to toss their sermons in the scrapbasket as unscriptural.

And here we go again. You know, people, and look, I always wanted to write kind of a book taking the other position and just taking all the passages and all the events that are taking place today and write a book trying to make that case and see if I could get it published by a major Christian publishing company.

And I probably could. I could make a case for it based upon the way this works if you take scripture passages out of context, don't pay attention to the time text, don't pay attention to the audience, don't pay attention to the history.

We have just got to quit doing this. And at the same time, we need to do more than just sit down and say,

I'm just going to pray about it, we're just supposed to go along with whatever the government says. This is based upon Romans chapter 13 and other passages in Peter, in Timothy as well.

That is not a biblical approach. The Apostle Paul, if you go to Acts chapter 16, the

Apostle Paul and Silas were beaten for what they were doing.

And then later, the jailer is converted. And then notice what happens next.

And it says, Now when the day came, the chief magistrates sent their policemen saying, release those men.

And the jailer reported these words to Paul saying, the chief magistrates have sent to release you.

Now, therefore, come out and go in peace. Now, you would think Paul would say, hey, this is great.

Thank you for doing that. You know, we want to be persecuted for Christ. That's just the way it's supposed to be.

But listen to what Paul did. What he said, Paul said to them, they have beaten us in public without trial.

Men who are Romans and have thrown us into prison. And now are they sending us away secretly?

No, indeed. But let them come themselves and bring us out. And the policemen reported these words to the chief magistrates.

And they were afraid when they heard that they were Romans. And they came and appealed to them.

And when they had brought them out, they kept begging them to leave the city. And they went out of the prison and entered the house of Lydia.

And when they saw the brethren, they encouraged them and departed. Also, Paul didn't say, hey, this is just what, you know, we're going to be persecuted for our faith.

We're just supposed to go along with what the government has to say. You don't find Paul doing this here. Paul called them out.

He was a Roman citizen. He had rights as a Roman citizen. We are, our Caesar is the

Constitution of the United States. The First Amendment to the Constitution says that we have the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

We don't have to sit back and because Joe Biden or anyone else is president, and whatever their laws that they impose do, we just have to go along with them.

No, we can petition the government for redress of grievances. We can protest against them.

We can vote them out of office. We can speak freely about this. We can force them to live consistently with their views.

We can call on Congress people who say they took, who took an oath to uphold the

Constitution and are not following that oath. We can call for a recall.

We can call for an impeachment and all that sort of thing. We don't have to be silent in the midst of what's going on in our culture today.

One of the biggest problems I think Christians embrace today, this idea that once, whatever the government is, is in power at that time, that we just have to endure it.

That is not the biblical way. Okay, we have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who says,

I have said this myself and know plenty of pious Bible -believing

Christians who do not fall into the extreme categories on either end.

We do not come up with all kinds of scenarios and predictions of Christ returning soon, but at the same time,

I have said, and many that I know and love have said, please, Lord Jesus, come.

We have a desire for him to return soon within our lifetimes. That does not mean we believe that certainly will happen.

And I was wondering if you think that attitude is wrong. I just think it's misplaced.

I think when you read the book of Revelation about Lord come, it's not talking about some end time world shattering event.

The coming that's being discussed there in the book of Revelation, the very last chapter, and elsewhere in scripture, it deals with the coming of Jesus in judgment against Jerusalem that took place before that generation passed away.

If you read the book of Acts, the biggest enemy of the church in the book of Acts was not the

Roman Empire. It was the unbelieving Judaizers who wanted to kill

Christians. Paul was one of them. Read Acts chapter 7 and Acts chapter 8, and Paul brings this up all the time.

They wanted to kill Paul. It was the Roman Empire initially that actually protected the church.

And so the coming that's being mentioned there, come Lord Jesus, isn't talking about the end of the world coming or this supposedly the rapture of the church coming.

It's the coming of Jesus in judgment to put an end to the old covenant, to lay it aside, get the temple out of the way, animal sacrifices, priesthood, the earthly sinful priesthood.

That was to be swept clean. That's the coming that's being mentioned there. This idea that that particular passage is dealing with the end of the world coming of Jesus, I think is misplaced.

Now, to follow up on the listener's question, if someone is not obsessed with that and they're not caught up in escapism, just wanting to be off this planet now, and that is something that is a constant thought in their heads, isn't it appropriate to prefer

Christ to return while we are alive as we witness things that are satanic and horrific and troubling to our consciences and souls?

I just think we're, I think we go back to Joshua chapter seven, get up, there's evil in the camp and fix it.

This idea that, you know, I think that's what Joshua was probably saying, look Lord, come and do something here.

And God told Joshua, you do something. You're the problem. One of the reasons we're in this mess today is because a lot of Christians decided they're not going to be involved in the political sphere to put it on the right track.

And I just think God's telling us, it's your problem, fix it. I'm here. I'm the sovereign

God, but you are responsible for the world I gave you.

And you need to get to work to fix these things. If you have kids in public schools, look, you want to change your culture.

Get your kids out of government schools. Why in the world are Christians sending their children to the very schools that are brainwashing them with propaganda?

There's something you can fix. Yeah, you're free to do this. You're free to take your kids out of public school and you can either homeschool them.

If your church is probably vacant, 90 % of the week, you got classrooms that sit empty.

You can start a school and so forth. God says, get to work here. It's kind of like God told us with this

COVID idea. Look at this. This COVID thing basically told you, you can educate your children.

There are all kinds of programs out there where you can educate your children at home. And I know it's costly.

I know it's costly. We did it. We went without so we could send our children to Christian school.

We homeschooled for a while. But if there's sin in the world, you can pray to God to give you wisdom on how to fix it.

But I just think it's a mistake. It's misguided to say, Lord, come and rescue us from out of this.

I just don't think you find that in the Bible. That's just my opinion. I wrote a book called Last Day's Madness.

You want to get my position on these things. If you look at Revelation chapter 22, it says,

Well, that was 2 ,000 years ago.

So the coming that's being referenced here isn't what we would call the second coming. It was this promise, coming, and judgment.

If you look at chapter 22, verse 10, and the angel said to John, Near for what?

Near for the end of the old covenant to finally come to an end. That was, if you look at Hebrews chapter 8,

Hebrews chapter 8, verse 13. The writer of the Hebrews was outlining what, in fact, was about to take place.

Hebrews 8, 13, and when he said, a new covenant, he has made the first obsolete, but whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

That's what the New Testament is talking about when it talks about the coming of the Lord being near, coming quickly, taking place soon, before that generation passed away.

That's what it's dealing with. I don't believe we should be praying that Lord come and rescue us from this, rescue us from a problem that we've kind of participated and allowed to happen on our own, and we could do many, many things to try to fix it, and unfortunately, many of us don't.

We don't know what to do or how to do it. We have an anonymous listener who says, I am constantly being accused by my closest friends and brothers and sisters in Christ that my post -millennialism actually leads to a belief that our human effort is going to bring about global salvation and hasten the return of Christ when the world is

Christianized. I find it ironic that they would say that our efforts, in our opinion, is bringing these things about since most post -millennialists

I know are Calvinists, and we don't even believe that our unaided will can bring about our own salvation, let alone anyone else's.

Do you have a response to those who make that accusation, and have you ever heard it? Yeah, I've heard it.

It's typical, and the problem is with it, it's not consistent. When we fix our families, when we fix our families and educate our children and so forth, are we doing this on man's efforts?

When we go and build a house for somebody who is homeless and so forth, is that man's efforts that's doing that?

Of course it is. I mean, you don't pray and ask God to build that house magically.

It is. I mean, come on. When you have a business, and you have to put money into that business, you've got to work 70 or 80 hours a week, and you've got to go without, is that man's effort?

Sure, it's man's effort, but you're doing it for the glory of God. You're doing it in terms of his principles and so forth.

But all of a sudden, all of a sudden, when you get into the realm of politics, and you want to change something related to politics, oh, oh, oh, no, no, no, that's man's efforts.

We're gonna try to bring in the kingdom. We're already in the kingdom. This is God's kingdom right now. God is calling us to account within the confines of his kingdom.

There are unbelievers in this kingdom who are screwing things up, and there are Christians in this kingdom who should be about fixing what's been screwed up.

So we're not bringing in the kingdom, and then if we as Christians, do we believe in the power of the gospel to transform lives?

I know my life was certainly transformed in 1973. I am so much a different person, and everything

I put my hands to today is transformational. So again, it's a misrepresentation of post -millennialism, and it's not consistent because we do all kinds of things in our own strength because that's what

God has called us to do. God has called us to fix things, and he has given us the specifics on how to do that.

Amen. Well, Gary, as I always do, I hope that you one day return for a full two hours on the show because the time is already over.

You know Joe Warcraft, he's very good on this as well.

Oh yes, of course. So anyway, I haven't seen Joe in a while, but I know we think a lot alike on all this.

No, I'm sure you do. And I want to make sure that our listeners have your contact information.

If you want to find out more about American Vision, the ministry where Gary DeMar serves as president, go to americanvision .org,

americanvision .org. Thank you so much, Gary, for being a part of our program today. Well, thank you,

Chris. God bless. And don't go away, folks. As you just heard, our second guest is going to be

Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, joining us momentarily to continue the same conversation.

And please be patient with us as we take a longer than normal station break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they have to localize the program with their own public service announcements while we air our own

Globally Heard commercials. So don't go away. We'll be back as soon as possible after this station break with Dr.

Joseph C. Moorcraft III. We are excited to announce another new member of the

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Greetings in the matchless name of our Lord Jesus Christ. My name is Banu Gadi. I'm a pharmacist in New York, which is the epicenter of the latest crisis the world is going through.

In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this.

I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made and wondrous are your works that my soul knows very well.

He saw God's goodness and mercy, kindness, and the beauty in what

God has designed and he has erupted into praise. In any crisis or problem, brothers and sisters, our only fallback position is to trust

God's design. And once we do, there is nothing for us to do but to erupt in praise to him.

When the whole world is searching for a solution, God in his infinite mercy has given us what we need to address this illness, which can be very serious.

Such is the beauty of his design. Knowing that design, how can we not erupt in praise to our great

God like the psalmist did? May God bless you and give all of us wisdom to see greater things in his design.

Thank you. James White of Altenamega Ministries and the

Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

I've had the privilege of opening God's word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the holy scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711. Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, that you heard about them from James White on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there and I've been doing this for 30, more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that? You don't have to owe me anything.

We're in good shape. I'm glad you said it on the air so I don't have to brag about myself.

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Always mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen and Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Before I return to our program and introduce

Dr. Joe Moorcraft of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia, who is continuing the theme that we began with Gary DeMar, does the current rise of leftist tyranny mean the end is near?

I just have a couple of announcements to make. First of all, if you love this show and don't want it to disappear, please go to ironsharpensirneradio .com,

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Also, if you are not a member of a local Bible -believing church and you live anywhere in the world,

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the globe and I may be able to help you find a church no matter where you live.

I have helped people all over the planet Earth find churches, sometimes just within a few minutes drive of their home that they didn't even know existed or they didn't even know that they were biblically sound.

I may be able to help you too. Send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line. That's also the email address where you could send in a question to Dr.

Joe Moorcraft and we are discussing, as I mentioned earlier, does the current rise of leftist tyranny mean the end is near?

And that's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com and let me welcome back to the program one of my favorite guests of all time and it seems to be a very popular guest among many of my listeners who also view him as a favorite guest,

Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, author and pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

It's great to have you back, Dr. Moorcraft. I love being with you, Chris. And in fact, this is just a teaser for tomorrow because we are going to have

Dr. Moorcraft return for the full two hours on Tuesday the 9th of, what month is this,

February? Tuesday the 9th of February, Dr. Moorcraft will be back for the full two hours.

I don't believe we've picked a topic yet but I'm sure whatever it is, it will get you riveted to your computers or your radios or however you listen to this program because he always seems to be an enormous blessing to me and my audience.

Dr. Moorcraft, very quickly for those of our listeners who are hearing you for the first time, tell us about Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia.

We're a small congregation in Cumming, Georgia, about four years old. We have about 60 members.

They come from all over the place from all kinds of backgrounds. We're committed to the inerrancy of Scripture, to the

Westminster Confession of Faith and Catechisms and to the carrying out of the Great Commission.

And so we are, our people love the Lord, they are faithful in their lives, in their attendance, in their giving and their service to God and it's a great joy to be their pastor.

Amen. Well, if anybody is interested in finding out more about Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, especially if you are visiting that area or if you already live in that area or if you have family, friends and loved ones who live in that area, go to heritagepresbyterianchurch .com,

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com. By the way, I hope you heard the enthusiasm in my first guest,

Gary DeMar's voice when he knew that I would be interviewing you right on the heels of his own interview.

Well, this is hard. I did hear that and I thank him for it. Great. Well, this is just another one of those times, as you know,

Dr. Moorcraft, when some people in the body of Christ are just very well -intentioned people who truly believe in the inerrancy of scripture.

They believe the Bible is real. They believe it has relevance to our lives over 2 ,000 years after, or at least over 2 ,000 years after the

New Testament was written, even many more years after the

Hebrew scriptures were written, but they believe it is just as relevant today as it was in the days in which it was written.

And they, I believe, are well -intentioned, but misguided when they immediately jump to the conclusion during a horrific and satanic trial that the world may be going through or a specific nation may be going through.

People believe that the end of the world was right around the corner during the rise of Hitler and the

Nazi regime. And we could cite many more instances of that, even in our own day in the 20th and 21st centuries.

Why is it a harmful, I'm asking you the same question I asked Gary, why is it a harmful thing for the body of Christ to do that?

And one image that is very well -known, it's been featured in cartoons and comic strips and all kinds of artwork mocking

Christianity, in fact, even Christians sometimes use it to mock those that are caught up in end times hysteria, is the man with the washboard, he might even be ringing a bell that says the end is near.

And people view that as a way to make fun of Christians because they know that has been happening for a very long time, even as far as our own consciences and memories go, it's been happening even within a hundred years.

And of course, the end didn't come about. So if you could. Well, I'm sure

Gary DeMar would agree with me when I say that the rise of Western charities is a sign that the beginning is near, not the end.

God's judgment clears the path. What did the flood do? Noah's flood got rid of all of the obstacles and cleared the path for the

Noahic covenant and a new world. So I believe that God's judgment is for getting rid of the dross, purging the dross out of the

American culture and particularly out of the American church, bringing her to repentance, disciplining her and strengthening her so that she can lead the way in the preaching of the gospel and in living for Christ for the beginning of a new and greater reformation that we've ever had before.

Now, I think I was talking to a man the other day, a good friend of mine, and he reads a lot of newspapers, keeps up to what's going on as I do too, and you do.

And he said, I don't see anything good on the horizon. I think it's over. That the world's coming to an end,

America's through. I just don't see anything but dark clouds on the horizon. I said, so -and -so,

I don't see anything but dark clouds on the horizon either, but I don't walk by sight, I walk by faith.

I remember one time a man was trying to refute post -millennialism.

And he said, how can these post -millennialists be so confident of the triumph of the kingdom of God in history in the light of what they read in the newspapers?

And I said, well, I don't get my doctrine out of the newspapers that we are to walk not by what we see.

I mean, look at Abraham. God told Abraham, this old, shriveled up man, and his wife, you're gonna have a baby, and he's gonna be the granddaddy, the savior of the world.

And what did Abraham see? Everything Abraham saw was in contrast to that promise.

There's nothing that he saw in his life, in his wife, in his marriage, that was consistent with that promise, but Abraham believed in spite of what he saw.

He knew that God was gonna be faithful to his promise of giving them, in their old age, a son who would be the child of promise, and through him, eventually,

Jesus Christ would come into the world. And I think that's the problem that we have with Christians today.

We are facing some terrible times, unless God intervenes in various ways.

I think in the short term, it's going to be a very serious time and a dangerous time.

And we're going to see the persecution of the church by the state, by society, by media, and by the church.

Don't ever forget that when Samson was delivered over to the

Philistines, it was the elders that took him to the temple where he eventually destroyed it.

So there are going to be enemies on all sides. I'm preaching on John 7,

Great Passage of Scripture. And the title of that series on John 7 is called

The Great War. And it's a war between Jesus and his enemies. It's not simply a war between Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, modernists, traditionalists.

It's a war between Christ and those who hate him. And in the seventh chapter of John, you see several groups that become enemies of Jesus.

You have the apostate Jewish leaders in Jerusalem and their followers.

You have this broader term in the Gospel of John called disciples of thousands of people that would crowd around Jesus wherever we go.

That doesn't, by calling them disciples in John, it doesn't mean that they're converted or they're saved.

It means that in some sense, they were enamored with Jesus and they loved to be entertained by his miracles.

And they stood at amazement at what he said and they followed him everywhere he went for a while. But then in John 6, when he started talking about predestination and effectual calling, says many of them left him and walked with him no more.

And then there's another group. And that is in the most important office holders in the church in the history of the world.

The 12 apostles. One of them was an enemy of Christ. And to even cut

Jesus more to the quick, his brothers in his own house that he grew up with thought he was insane and would not believe in him and treated him with mockery.

So in all of that, we have enemies who are fighting him on every side, but the victory's already won.

It's not that we've got to win the victory. 2 ,000 years ago, Jesus Christ, his life, death, and resurrection, won the victory over sin,

Satan, the world. And now we are in a mopping up process.

There's going to be pockets of resistance that sometimes will be greater and sometimes will be smaller.

We've got to oppose those pockets of resistance and continue to build and continue to work and to continue to plant seeds and continue to act until we see success to our labors.

There's a promise I think I've quoted every time on your show, but I quote it all the time anyway. And that is the promise where God says, don't grow weary in well -doing, for in due time you shall reap if you do not faint.

Doesn't say you might reap. It doesn't say, I hope you reap, but you probably won't.

It says, don't grow weary in well -doing, for in due time you shall reap if you do not faint.

And so people say, well, how can you say that and be so optimistic in the light of all the evil and perversion and wickedness in high places and low places in every aspect of American society?

And I tell them that I believe that grace is stronger than depravity. Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.

So Christians have got to get out of their thinking several presuppositions that they grew up with,

I grew up with in my early days, and most Christians did in the 20th century. And that is, number one, that Jesus is gonna come any second now, rapture

Christians out of here. Gonna be a terrible tribulation. And the church never believed that until the 1830s.

I believe Jesus is coming again, and when he comes, I believe that he shall come in triumph, literally, physically, with majesty.

And that when he comes, he'll raise everybody from the dead. They'll stand before him on judgment day.

He'll separate the sheep from the goats and eternity with him begins forever.

But in the meanwhile, between the two advents of Christ, between his advent 2 ,000 years ago and his second coming, whenever that's gonna be in the future, the

Bible promises that there's going to be a progressive growth of the kingdom of God in this world.

Christians today emphasize the fact that the kingdom has come. In fact, liberals, that's all they talk about is realized eschatology that the kingdom has come 2 ,000 years ago.

On the other hand, the rapturists only talk about the harvests of the kingdom at the end of the age, and both the liberals and the fundamentalists make the same mistake.

They do not see the growth of the seed. How do we get from the planting of the seed in Christ 2 ,000 years ago to the great consummate harvest of the seed at the end of the world?

By growth of the seed, just like you plant a bean. How do you get from the bean you plant in the ground to a bunch of beans that you pick at the end of harvest?

The growth of the seed. And we have neglected that because beginning in the late 19th century, people were very depressed.

They were very emotionally pessimistic, and on that pessimism, and then you have

World War I, and you have World War II, and those various things caused

Christians who were walking by sight and not by faith to become theologically and culturally pessimistic and defeatist about the future.

And so we lost our heritage. This view that we're gonna lose in time and space, and nothing's gonna be any different is a new doctrine.

It's not the faith of the church. It's not the faith of the Protestant church. It's not the faith of the

Roman Catholic church, that the church has believed in the triumph of the kingdom in history before the return of Jesus Christ.

I was raised in a rapturous -type situation, and in my early ministry, when

I was giving altar calls and holding revivals, and nobody was coming forward, I knew how to get people to come forward on the last night, and that was to preach a sermon on seven signs of the second coming.

And that would so scare everybody to death, and I knew there'd be a bunch of people come forward. Well, I've asked forgiveness for that through the years, but the idea of the rapture has emasculated us, coupled with the fact that the gospel doesn't have any relevance to culture.

In the early part of the 19th, a friend of mine wrote a book on preachers in Scotland, in the early part of the 19th century.

And he said it was some of the greatest preaching in the history of the church, and what made it so great is that they never referred to current events in their sermons.

Well, I believe that was the beginning of the end of preaching. I believe that was the beginning of the decline of preaching.

You go through the preaching of Isaiah, and the prophets and the rest are always referring to current events.

I had another good friend of mine that I asked to teach. We were having a preaching class, and I wanted him to teach on Samuel Davies, who was

Patrick Henry's pastor in Colonial Virginia. And he gave us a lecture, and he said, what made

Samuel Davies so, and he was in my church, and I loved him, and he said, what made

Samuel Davies so powerful is that he never got involved in politics, and never preached on politics and political issues and social issues, economic issues.

Well, I just smiled. I mean, I loved him, and I knew he was a great man, and I wasn't mad or anything.

But I decided during the question and answer time, I would ask him a question. I said,

Brother Smith, do you have those three volumes of Samuel Davies sermons? He said,

I do. He said, I said, so do I. They're great, aren't they? He said, yes, they are.

I said, those first two volumes of evangelistic sermons, I wish I could memorize them.

He said, so do I. And I said, that third volume of political sermons, I wish I could memorize.

And he just smiled and went on. But it's the faith of the church that the church will win, that it's a poor bridegroom that cannot keep his bride from being raped by the

Antichrist. And so the bridegroom knows how to protect his bride and how to cause it to prosper in the world.

And the gospel of Jesus Christ has relevance to every atom in the universe, every aspect of life on this planet.

We often today talk about, ask people to perceive Jesus as their personal savior. Don't worry, the

Bible's called a personal savior. I mean, he's a cosmic savior. He saves individuals, but he also saves cultures and the universe he's gonna transform sometime at the end of time.

So we've got to get rid of these rapturous neoclatonic, which means physical, material things are evil and we should only think about dying and going to heaven.

We've got to get rid of those presuppositions that have emasculated the evangelical and parts of the

Reformed church for almost 200 years. By the way,

I wanna give a plug to an interview I did since you brought up Samuel Davies.

I interviewed Dr. Dewey Roberts a couple of years ago, actually three years ago, almost three years ago to the day,

February 13th, 2018. He wrote a book called Samuel Davies, Apostle to Virginia.

Read it. And so I wanted to plug that interview. If anybody wants to look it up in the irontreppanzionradio .com

archive, just type in Samuel Davies, D -A -V -I -E -S, and that will come up.

Even if you just... I have a book that Samuel Davies owned and in the front cover,

Samuel Davies wrote his name. So if anybody wants to get 20 ,000 years off purgatory, they can come to my house and touch that book.

By the way, do you mind if I start walking around the streets with a sandwich board?

I think I mistakenly called it a washboard, but I meant a sandwich board, a sign around my neck that says the beginning is near and then have

Joe Moorcraft underneath that. Yeah, I mean,

I used to pastor in East Tennessee and everywhere in East Tennessee where these pillars about five foot high said

Jesus is coming soon, made out of reinforced concrete. We're going to our final break.

It's gonna be a lot more brief than the other ones. So don't despair too much folks. And if you have any questions for Dr.

Moorcraft, please send them in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, be right back with Dr. Joe Moorcraft. ♪ All hail the power of Jesus' name ♪

This is pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

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Historicalbiblesociety .org. We have a question from Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, who is a very faithful and loyal listener to Iron Trump and Zion Radio, in addition to being a very generous supporter financially of this program.

He says, Greetings Brothers Chris and Joe. It seems to me like most Christians need to get back into reading the

Holy Scriptures. Do they not realize that we serve the true and living God? One only needs to read from Genesis to Revelation to see that we worship and serve the

King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Brother Joe, why do you think so many Christians are pessimistic when we should be looking for opportunities to share the truth?

Well, that is a very important question, and I think there are some very important answers.

Number one, rapturism has led us to believe that there's no use in trying to do anything because the world's going to hell in a handbasket.

Number two, pietism based on old Greek neoplatonism says that material, physical, and social things are dirty and base, and we should only think about dying and going to heaven.

And then thirdly, is because over the past, oh, since the early 1800s, maybe middle 1800s, we've seen the democratization of Christianity where the emphasis has been on the autonomy of man and not on the sovereignty of God.

And as a result of America changing

God from the great, sovereign, omnipotent, merciful, just, wise

God of the Reformation and the Bible to a weak and pathetic God that's dependent upon man that cannot make any decisions until, first of all, man makes his decision.

Because we've changed God, because we've developed a pessimistic view of the future, because we don't see any relevance to what goes on in this life and what we do with our bodies.

Those are the basic reasons, in my opinion. Another reason, we left all those emphases in an earlier day when we came in the 20th century.

Another emphasis is the abiding authority of God's law. Because we don't believe that there's any victory for the kingdom in time, we haven't tried to figure out any program for victory.

And we forgot that that's what the law of God is. The law of God is a program on how to establish in your family, in your church, your community, your business, at politics, nations, in every area of life, a

God -glorifying society of liberty and justice for all.

So, we've left the law of God in the past. We've left the doctrine of the sovereignty of God in the past.

We've left our understanding of victory in the past. We've left the importance of all areas of life in the past.

And also, fifthly, we have lost the vision of sovereign grace.

Is that in the 20th century, the preaching of sovereign grace, that is,

God has mercy upon whom he has mercy, and he hardens whom he will. And when

God sets his scope on someone to save him, he might resist for a while, but ultimately,

God's grace is irresistible. Once we lost that emphasis on sovereign grace, we don't have any power now.

All we have is the power of man. So, that's the long answer to a very important question. I'd like to mention,

I mentioned a few minutes ago that I was a rapturous, raised in a rapturous, presbyterian church, and was a rapturous in my very early days as a minister.

I want to read, I'm talking about the 60s, I want to read the one verse that hit me between the eyes like a two by four, and changed my whole view of eschatology in the future.

And it was at 1970 or thereabout, when I read this verse in the

Greek, and it changed everything for me, and has continued to change everything for me.

And I'll read the verse in the New American Standard Version, 1 Corinthians 15, 24.

Then comes the end, when he delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when he has abolished all rule and all authority and all power.

Now, I want to show you how your presuppositions can make you see things in the Bible that are not there.

When I read that verse as a rapturous, here's what I thought it said. Then comes the end, the second coming, when he delivers the kingdom to God, when he will abolish all rule and all authority and power.

So, I thought the verse was telling me that there's going to be hostile authority and power rule in opposition to Christ until the second coming.

And then at the end, when he comes again, then and not until then will he put down opposition.

But now I'm going to read to you in Greek. I'm going to give you a literal translation of what it says in Greek. And if you don't believe me, just learn

Greek and read it. 1 Corinthians 15, 24. Then comes the end, when he delivers up the kingdom to the

God and Father after he has abolished all rule and all authority and all power.

So, the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are not going to take place until after Christ has abolished all opposition against him in history.

And the next verse says, for he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

And so the Lord Jesus Christ is not going to return to earth and bring on the end of the world as we know it today until after he has abolished and put down all his enemies in history.

There'll always be sinners. There'll never be any utopia on this side of the second coming.

As long as there's more craps in this world, there'll always be sinners and there'll never be utopia. But the world will be far better than it is now, so that Jesus Christ will come back to a world that has been authentically

Christian for centuries. Now, for some people, that may be the first time they've heard it, but that's old -time religion.

I didn't make that up. You see that throughout the Reformation, particularly in the early days of America.

Why do you think of pilgrims? And the Puritans in Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay and all those early places?

Why did they come to North America? Did they come to North America to learn how to play guitar and wait for Jesus to come?

No. They came to America not just to convert the Indians, but to create a city on a hill, to create a

Christian civilization on this continent that could be copied throughout the world.

We've lost that concept today because of our understanding, and as a result, we're on the retreat.

We've surrendered. We're negative. We're defeatistic, and I've got to tell people, if you believe in defeat, you will not be disappointed.

And we have to make it clear, there are some people who automatically draw the very wrong, false conclusion.

When you have critical things to say about rapturism, they automatically associate that with hyper -preterism.

I'm not talking about partial preterism. I'm talking about those who deny a future physical visible return.

Oh, I know it. I mean, I believe the Apostles Creed, and I believe that Jesus Christ is literally, historically, coming again at the end of history.

And I believe if you don't believe that, you're heretic. Right. Amen. And you've mentioned an interesting phrase that I think is key here to some of our discussion.

Old -time religion. There are too many people who think old -time religion means something that is true just because their granddaddy and great -granddaddy and great -great granddaddy believed it, maybe going back to the early 1900s or something.

But some of the things that have been taught in regard to eschatology and other things, like even the altar call and some of these other things, didn't even appear in Christendom in history until the 19th century.

And that's not a very old -time religion. No, I mean, anything that's happened in the past 150 years is new religion.

It's not old -time religion. People often come to our church, and they don't hear some songs they expect us to sing, like I Come to the

Garden Alone, things like that. And they say, how come you don't sing the old songs? And I said, well, we sing two things.

We sing very few songs written in the 1930s. We don't like songs you can waltz to.

And the songs we sing are written over the past hundred years.

Some of them are 1900 years old. So the old -time religion to me is the religion of the

Protestant Reformation, the apostolic church, the faithful people of God, and there were some throughout the

Middle Ages, like the Waldensians, and the religion of the Bible, the religion of the Old Testament.

The 20th century is not a model to use for our worship, our singing, our evangelism, our theology.

The 20th century and now the 21st is a history of of declension, but God is going to bring it crashing down and clear the way for a new day.

There is a book I'd like to recommend people real quick. I don't record in. It's written by a modern Frenchman named

Cordial, C -O -R -T -H -I -A -L, called A New Day of Small Beginnings.

Great. Well, I want to make sure that our listeners also have your website. It is

HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com, HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com. I also want to remind our listeners, those of you who are not aware of this, that sadly

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I want to thank you so much, Dr. Morgrath, for being our guest again. I look forward to your return to the show tomorrow, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Dr.