February 8, 2021 Show with Gary DeMar & Dr. Joe Morecraft on “Does the Current Rise of Leftist Tyranny Mean the End is Near?”

The Problem with End-Time Predictions and Leftist Tyranny

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

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And it's not as if those that have all kinds of end times theories and predictions and conspiracy theories and all kinds of things in the nature of predictions of the return of Christ and the end of the world, it's not like they need any help coming up with these fantastical ideas that the end is with certainty right around our corner.

But the rise of leftism in America, in fact globally, has given even more ammunition for those who believe the end is very near, literally, to start making the warnings that they have been making for centuries.

And it is always, eventually, when enough time elapses, to the great embarrassment of the body of Christ. But we have someone to discuss this today. For the first hour, we have Gary DeMar of American Vision to discuss this.

In the second hour, to continue the same theme is Dr. Joe Morecraft, who is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia. They will both be discussing, does the current rise of the leftist tyranny mean the end is near?

And first of all, let me welcome to the program once again one of my favorite guests of all time, the president of American Vision, Gary DeMar.

Good to be back with you, Chris. It's been a little while.

Yes, it has. And I am so glad that you are recovering from your health issues and that you are recovering so well that your wife said, enough is enough. I'm sick and tired of hearing you whine and complain.

You can't use it as an excuse anymore.

Yeah, I used to bring something up and I'd tell her, I said, Carol, you know, come on, I just had my left kidney taken out. I mean, give me some slack here. But anyway, I could use it for maybe, I think I could use it, maybe, but that was the end of that.

I'm back, the whole kidney removed.

Well, I'm going to give our listeners right away, because you can only be on with us for the first hour. I'm going to give our listeners right away our email address if you have any questions or comments about this very timely theme.

Does the current rise of leftist tyranny mean the end is near? ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com. As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. So, Gary, have you heard of any new end-time theories, predictions, prophecies, as a result of the victory of Joe Biden?

And when I say that, I don't mean to convey the idea that I think he legitimately won the presidency, although I'm not totally ruling that out either, but I seriously doubt it. But he is, right now, the President of the United States.

It's not that I've seen or heard of any particular date for this. I think there was one about when he comes up, Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin. Well, actually, it was 1983. So this article was published in 1983, and it's kind of funny.

But that's the thing. You go back today, and even like the Left Behind novel, nothing new. Of course, it's very frustrating, because I think what it does to Christians, because they say, well, this is a prophetic inevitability, not much we can say, diminishes the integrity of Christianity.

Let me also do a little damage control here about something I said. When I said that I held out some possibility that Joe Biden legitimately won the election, I don't mean by that that I believe there was no fraud involved.

I'm just saying that I'm just holding out a possibility that even despite fraud, which I am convinced there was much of it, that he may have won legitimately. But I'm not even concerning myself with that right now.

I'm just saying that this has been possibly the spawning of another or more end times theories. Now, why do you think that this is so harmful to the body of Christ? Why is this harmful to our witness to the lost?

Why is it harmful to humanity in general? To come up with these predictions that Christ is certainly returning soon. Let me also make it clear to my listeners, even though I love Gary and have him on frequently, I am not yet convinced of post-millennialism.

I'm an optimistic amillennialist. I do believe that there is a possibility of Christ returning at any time. But I share the abhorrence that Gary has and that many post-millennialists have of people popping up with false predictions of Christ's soon return in the end of the world being very soon because of current events that are taking place, especially knowing that things have been far worse in our history than they are right now.

But if you could, Gary, pick up on why is this such a harmful thing?

Well, first of all, you don't have to be a post-millennialist to be going out there and say everything is almost 40 years ago, 40 years ago, 600 years ago, using the same Bible verses that people are using today.

This is like the boy who cried wolf. You do this enough and a lot of people just completely dismiss it. It's continually used to make the same case for something that people have made in the past. It's just that they're looking at, you know, claiming officially atheistic communism, theologic states isn't the kingdom of God.

That doesn't mean it's the end of humanity.

And you're speaking of legitimate, regenerate, genuine Christianity.

Oh, yeah. My wife and I, with about 20 other people, were in China a number of years ago, and it was amazing the number of Christians, a place empirical of, sure, the Chinese faith. We're the sword. To Timothy, when I'm talking about some distant people saying, see, this is what's taking place in our day.

That's not what Paul was writing to Timothy about. He was writing to Timothy about what was taking place in his day. Verse 8, and just as Janice and Jambres opposed Moses, so dead stick in their hands, that's all they had, judgment from God.

Powerful emperor, kingdom in the world at that time. So in the midst of crisis, what he needs to do, that is not a scriptural act.

Now, there is a phenomenon that does exist where some people take a 180-degree opposite position to what you just said, that they're not saying why bother polishing the brass on a sinking ship, but they elevate politics and governing authorities, even though they might not ever say this or admit that they think this, but they elevate our hope in politics to such a high degree that they make idols and even messiahs out of elected officials.

I mean, there are people who I believe were bordering on that, if not even leaping far over the border of making Trump out to be an idol or a little messiah or a big messiah.

I feel like I've been doing this for a long time, and I know a lot of people on one volume. My whole thing has always been about getting involved in politics. All it does is just makes the people dependent upon foreign powers and so forth.

Bring our troops home. That's not a messianic way of looking at government. And again, all the people I've talked to is, look, these Republicans have been talking big time about all this stuff they're going to do.

Keep in mind, when Trump became president in 2016, we had the Senate, we had the House of Representatives, and the GOP, for the most part, didn't do anything. They didn't touch on so many different things.

I really don't believe that a temporary—. I think it was the frustration level of Republicans, and we can see it right now. We've got Ben Sasse continuing to complain about Donald Trump, who's out of office.

The political enemy that we have right now is the Democrat Party. For the Democrats, the Democrat Party, everything Christian, you should be believing that.

Amen, amen.

Supporting, killing unborn babies, forcing us—.

In fact, Biden's satanic approval of children, even preteens, getting surgery and hormone therapy to so-called change their gender, as if that were possible. This is insane. I mean, it's insane. It's satanic.

And by the way, I never meant to give the impression that I think the majority, by any stretch of the imagination of Trump supporters, viewed him that way. I'm just saying that there can exist a tendency to be on the opposite extreme of not wanting to polish the brass on a sinking ship.

Yeah, look, I agree. But again, from the Moana area, from the Old Testament, Israel got into the land. They suffered their first defeat at Ai. And, you know, it was the first time. The land is yours. And all of a sudden, oh, my, we are men here.

In verse 6,. Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell to the earth on his face before the ark of the Lord, until the evening, both he and the elders of Israel. And Joshua said, Alas, O Lord God, why didst thou ever bring this people over the Jordan, only to deliver us into the hands of the Amorites, to destroy us?

If only we had been willing to dwell beyond the Jordan. O Lord, what can I say, since Israel has turned their back before their enemies, and will hear of it our name from the earth. Great name. Now, the first thing, of course, is to pray about all this.

And I agree. We need to pray about this. But let's listen to what God said. He said to Joshua, Rise up. Why is it that you have fallen on your face? Israel has sinned. Which I commanded them. Basically, what you're seeing here is, get to work and fix face.

Now it's time to get up and A lot of Christians out there who have this kind of super spirituality out there, praying, you know, because it takes in God's word says about, we're in the position we're in right now, because millions of Christians don't vote.

Millions of Christians aren't involved in politics. The slightest idea of anything about economics, is a separation between church and state. You can't impose your morality. Ignorance among Christians.

We have to go to our first break right now. If anybody wants to join us, ChrisArnson at gmail .com is the email address. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Gary DeMar after these messages.

Scripture, Political Theology, and the Meaning of Joshua 7

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned us in. Gary DeMar is our guest for the first hour to discuss a very important theme. Does the current rise of leftist tyranny mean that the end is near?

And if you want to join us with a question of your own our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Chrisarnzen at gmail .com. And you said before the break that you reluctantly were going to use a phrase.

There is a middle way to approach this situation by avoiding the lunacy of extremes on both ends of the spectrum. I don't know if you want to pick up where we left off.

Well, yeah, I just think that both of us are at the end times. Ethiopia, Mussolini, the anti-Christ. He would attempt to buy back passages that people are using back then. And, you know, Mussolini, here we go again.

You know, probably could. I could make a case for it. And then notice what happens next. Center policemen saying, release those men. And the jailer reported these words to Paul saying the chief magistrate.

Now you would think Paul would say, hey, this is great. Thank you for doing that. You know, we want to be persecuted for Christ. That's just the way it's supposed to be. Listen to what Paul did. Beaten us in public.

Men who are Romans and have thrown us into prison. And now are they sending us away secretly? No, indeed. But let them come themselves and bring us out. And the policemen reported these words to the chief magistrates.

And they were afraid when they heard that they were Romans. And they came and appealed to them in the city. And said, this is just what, you know, we're going to be persecuted for our faith. We're just supposed to go along with what the government has to say.

You don't find Paul doing this here. Paul called them out. He was a Roman citizen. He had rights as a Roman citizen. Our Caesar is the Constitution of the United States. The First Amendment to the Constitution says that we have the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

We don't have to sit back or anyone else's petition the government against them. Whatever the government is, is in power.

Okay, we have Joseph in South Central Pennsylvania who says, I have said this myself and know plenty of pious Bible-believing Christians who do not fall into the extreme categories on either end. We do not come up with all kinds of scenarios and predictions of Christ returning soon.

But at the same time, I have said, and many that I know and love have said, please, Lord Jesus, come. We have a desire for him to return soon within our lifetimes. That does not mean we believe that certainly will happen.

And I was wondering if you think that attitude is wrong.

Some end time world share in the book of Revelation that brings us up all the time. They wanted to kill Paul. It was the Roman Empire initially that actually protected the church. And so the coming of what is being mentioned there, come Lord Jesus, isn't talking about the end of the world.

It's the coming of Jesus in judgment to put an end to the old covenant, to lay it aside. Animal sacrifices, priesthood, the earthly sinful priesthood. That's the coming that's being mentioned there, that particular passage.

Now, to follow up on the listener's question, if someone is not obsessed with that and they're not caught up in escapism, just wanting to be off this planet now, and that is something that is a constant thought in their heads, isn't it appropriate to prefer Christ to return while we are alive as we witness things that are satanic and horrific and troubling to our consciences and souls?

I think we go back to Joshua chapter 7. Get up, there's evil in the camp, and fix it. This idea that, you know, I think that's what Joshua was probably saying. Look Lord, come and do something here. And God told Joshua, you do something.

You're the problem, not going to be involved in the political change. You want to change your culture? Get your kids out of government schools. Why in the world are Christians sending their children to the very schools that are brainwashing them with propaganda?

There's something you can fix. You're free to do this. You're free to take your kids out of public school, and you can either homeschool them. If your church is probably vacant, God says get to work here.

It's kind of like God told us with this COVID idea. Look at this. This COVID thing basically told you, you can educate your children. There are all kinds of programs out there where you can educate your children at home.

And I know it's costly. I know it's costly for a while. But if there's sin in the world, God can give you wisdom on how to fix this. I just don't think you find that in the Bible. That was 2 ,000 years ago.

So the coming that's being referenced here isn't what we would call the second coming. It was this promise. We have an anonymous listener who says,.

I am constantly being accused by my closest friends and brothers and sisters in Christ that my post-millennialism actually leads to a belief that our human effort is going to bring about global salvation and hasten the return of Christ when the world is Christianized.

I find it ironic that they would say that our efforts, in our opinion, is bringing these things about since most post-millennialists I know are Calvinists, and we don't even believe that our unaided will can bring about our own salvation, let alone anyone else's.

Do you have a response to those who make that accusation, and have you ever heard it?

Yeah.

If you don't pray and ask God what He wants to change, you say, oh, oh, oh, no, no, no, that's messing things up. When there are Christians in this kingdom, it should be about fixing what's been screwed up.

So we're not bringing in the kingdom. And then if we as Christians, do we believe in the power of the gospel to transform lives? I know my life was certainly transformed in 1973. I am so much a different person, and everything I put my hands to is transformational.

Again, it's a misrepresentation of post-millennialism, and it's not consistent because we do all kinds of things in our own strength.

Yes.

God has called us to fix things.

Well, Gary, as I always do, I hope that you one day return for a full two hours on the show, because the time is already over.

You know Joe Warcraft, he's out.

Oh, yes, of course.

He's anxious. So anyway, I haven't seen Joe.

No, I'm sure you do. And I want to make sure that our listeners have your contact information. If you want to find out more about American Vision, the ministry where Gary DeMar serves as president, go to AmericanVision .org, AmericanVision .org.

Thank you so much, Gary, for being a part of our program today.

Thank you, Chris.

God bless. And don't go away, folks. As you just heard, our second guest is going to be Dr. Joseph C. Warcraft III, joining us momentarily to continue the same conversation. And please be patient with us as we take a longer than normal station break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they have to localize the program with their own public service announcements while we air our own globally heard commercials.

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James White of Alton Omega Ministries is in the Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Coram, Long Island, New York.

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Here's what Gary DeMar, president of American Vision, had to say about Arn Sharpen's Iron Radio recently.

Good to be back, Chris. I always enjoy our time here. I have to tell you, you're one of the better interviewers out there, and I've been doing this for more than 30 years.

Wow, that's some compliment. How much do I owe you for that?

You don't have to owe me anything. We're in good shape.

I'm glad you said it on the air, so I don't have to brag about myself. Tell your friends and loved ones about Arn Sharpen's Iron Radio, airing live Monday through Friday, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time, at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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