February 20, 2017 Show with Charlie Liebert on “Always Be Ready to Give an Answer”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now here's our host.

Good.

Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity

living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arns and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy President's Day on this

Monday of February 20th 2017.

And boy did our Lord and Creator provide a

phenomenal beautiful gorgeous breathtaking Nearly summer -like day

today here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Can't believe the gorgeous weather out there but if God created the

World in six days.

I'm sure that having a beautiful day in Carlisle, Pennsylvania is not a problem for him but

I am delighted to have Somebody on the program today who has been on as a

co -host.

You've all heard him.

Or many of you have heard him on the program as a co -host on iron sharpens iron.

But today for the first time he is going to be my guest on the program.

My primary guest and his name is Charlie Liebert founder of six day creation calm and we're

discussing one of his three books.

Always be ready to give an answer and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Charlie Liebert.

Thank you, Chris.

It's great to be here and in studio.

Again is my co -host the reverend buzz Taylor and hope you two can introduce

each other because I know that you just met.

Seconds ago.

Yes.

It's the competition of the co -hosts.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air.

Our email address if you have a question is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at Gmail .com.

And please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside of the good old USA.

Charlie this book that you have written always be ready to give an answer.

There are other books on apologetics that have been written

on how to answer the questions of skeptics and those who are

in opposition to biblical evangelical Christianity.

Perhaps they are either atheists or agnostics perhaps they're even Roman Catholics

or members of a non -evangelical Church or a cult or some other religion outside of Christianity.

Why did you see a need for another book that helps?

Listeners to be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within them.

Okay, let me give you a little background on that Chris.

I was Teaching in a study back in 2010 in Greensboro, North Carolina where I lived

at that time a bunch of Christian businessmen and As we talked about evangelism and talked about

being able to witness for Christ.

One of the things that came up very clearly again and again is I get into a conversation that's going to lead in a spiritual direction and

They asked me a question and I can't answer that question and I get diverted off the subject can never get to the gospel.

So I went back and for about actually for about two years I went back and studied the scripture.

What the Jesus.

How did Jesus would use a panel something like that?

But if you look at his encounters with the Pharisees and other people in Scripture You see that he never answered the question.

He has to question answered the question with a question and I didn't find any other Evangelistic book that I've ever said that so

I said, let me put down on paper how to do this.

To doing this is very simple.

They ask you a question like where'd Cain get his wife?

You don't answer the question.

You say that's a good question, but let me ask you a question.

Why did you ask me that.

Did you ever run for a political office?

Actually, that's not true.

Yes, I did.

I ran once for school board and lost third in a race of fives, but that's a whole nother story.

So so so I was I was confronted with this again and again.

And I decided to call this taking the spiritual temperature.

You ask a person a series of questions that probes to their presuppositions.

This is what he did with the Pharisees.

He asked him about the baptism of John.

He took him completely off the track of what they were trying to do to him and took them to their presuppositions.

Forced him to think about it.

That's the key.

Okay, you get the priest up it you evaluate a person.

Are they hot?

Are they ready to hear the gospel?

Are they Luke warm?

Well, maybe they're maybe they're not or they cold they say like for example an atheist said to me recently I don't care what

you answer.

I won't believe anything you say.

Well, what's the point of answering his question to begin with so you take a spiritual temperature and then?

The key the key thing that I put in here is then you go to a testimony you say look I know that's a good

answer to your question.

But let me tell you about how I believe there is a good answer and you walk right into your testimony.

I came to be a believer as this whatever your testimony is three to five minutes.

Testimony quickly and then you come to the end us and end with another question.

What do you think about the gospel?

What do you think about Christ and just a question that leads to that that spiritual temperature that you've already evaluated to say well.

Where is the person?

Sometimes they get angry and walk away other times as an invitation to go further with the gospel and Sometimes you get to what I

call closure, which is a section of a chapter in the book that says basically How do you close the gospel?

How do you bring a person to faith?

What do you what do you tell them now?

You got to understand that men were dead in their sin.

God's got to have made them alive to hear if they've got ears to hear then they're ready to hear

and you share the gospel.

That's what basically the book the book the book says.

Well as far as that question actually I know that after you bring the person

back to the question of your own.

Why do you ask that.

That's interesting question.

Do you eventually get around to offering them plausible?

Theories.

Because obviously the Bible doesn't tell us specifically.

But the only theories I know of is that There was a period of time where

obviously God before he prohibited incest.

Permitted brothers and sisters to have Relations.

So the only alternative I could think of is that Cain had marital

relations with his sister or.

Even his mother or a four.

I wouldn't think his mother but his first cousin, right?

Because if enough time elapsed, yeah, because these lifespans are five six seven hundred years.

So the lifespan is sufficient that it would be time to marry at the second or third generation person and in the end

in the.

Recording of Scripture.

Only a few women are mentioned in someone's genealogical record, right?

That's correct.

There's only only one or two in all the genealogies in the Bible.

It's pretty much the male line.

So so if it was interesting that both of the women in the genealogical accounts in Scripture were.

Notorious sinners who came to faith and they were not Hebrews, right?

Either they had Rahab the harlot who actually became a believer right.

And Ruth.

Ruth is the other one.

Yeah, right.

And Let's see here.

We do have a question from a listener already.

Okay, and I'll repeat our email address if anybody else has a question.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And as I said before, please give us your first name.

At least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the

good old USA.

We have a question from Arthur in Middletown, Pennsylvania and

Arthur asks.

Ask Charlie if he would please explain presuppositional thought so people can use it to understand.

That the use of evidences is only effective if you also deal with the way your object of

concern thinks about the world.

How do you deal with your friends presuppositions and worldview?

So I'm assuming that Arthur is either guessing or is aware already that you are a

presuppositionalist because we haven't established that.

Although you did somewhat give a hint there.

Yes, I did because I know that presuppositionalists do not like to be derailed by trying to prove everything

that's correct.

Yeah.

Thanks Arthur for the question.

I would I would say this to the listeners in general.

Every person has an attitude or a view of life.

Which we called a worldview and that comes from the beliefs about who they are what their position in the world

is.

What their life is about all the different things that relate to who you are.

You see it's a set of presuppositions for a Christian.

It's a certain set for a humanist or atheist it's very different set and What you're trying to evaluate when you're talking to

the person about why did you ask me that question if I if I answer that? question will it change anything about how what you believe

you can go and pursue this and You do that to get to get them to reveal to you what their

presuppositions are.

I mean you could have for example a dialogue with an atheist and he says I don't care what you say I'm never gonna believe anything you say.

Well, then the conversation probably is not going to get never going to get spiritual.

Although you should give a witness anyway, but you may have a conversation with the person that says gee, I'm really confused I go to church, but I

really don't understand how that's supposed to change my life.

Well now you've got an opportunity to go further With with the gospel and your own your own beliefs about

who Christ is and describing all the things related to your life.

Remember when you give a testimony a Person can't question it.

It's your experience in your life.

So they really can't say I don't.

I think you're wrong because you're not wrong.

You're describing what happened to you and when you come to the end of it.

Then you've got to close with some kind of a question.

It's going to pursue them to give back to you more of the presuppositions.

Where are they spiritually that taking temperature is real important.

Because you know then what a person how a person is receptive at the gospel or not.

Now I don't want to Be too severely critical of any

Evidentialist listening.

One of my greatest living heroes is an evidentialist RC sprawl.

And in fact John Gerstner who is now in eternity with Christ was an evidentialist

and I and they were they are Both thoroughly reformed.

In fact, John Gerstner is even more thoroughly the reform.

But.

Can you give an outline of evidentialism, yes.

Actually when I was first converted I was more of an evidentialist than a presuppositional.

Yeah.

Well, I would think that.

Evidentialism would be a Common understanding of

life Unless you are brought deeper into.

Philosophical thing that's correct.

And in fact a One of the principal things I had to deal with as a new as a new Christian was evolution.

Because I was I bought the goods on that completely because I'm a trained scientist.

He had a bachelor's in chemistry.

So I bought the goods on that.

So I that was one of the big wrestles I had.

It took me three years and I'll say this humorously to evolve from old earth

Atheistic evolutionist to a young earth biblical creationist took about three years.

I read the people like Ken Ham Henry Morris Dwayne Gish all those different books and it took a while to get

there and as I got there as I began to mature in Christ, I began to understand that men are really dead in

their sin.

They're not asleep.

You can't wake in them and any oh and the all the amount of evidence you could ever give to a person that's dead.

Falls on dead ears.

They can't hear you.

So the reason I go to the pre suppositions is because I want to discern has the Holy Spirit worked in that person's life.

To give them ears to hear.

Jesus talked about that all the time.

Ears to hear.

Did he give the head.

Do they have ears to hear.

Can they hear the biblical truth.

If they can then it's time to give It to them.

If they can't and they're dead in their sin and they're rejecting you then give a testimony.

Anyway, and I'll talk about that in a second.

Give a testimony anyway, because testimonies are seeds and seeds will germinate or not.

There's a man that I knit was that I knew when I was in high school.

But I met when I was what going for my master's in business and I own a college about about 12 years out of high school

and the Frank's out across the table for me at a Chinese restaurant and He told me a story of his life.

I Knew up to high school.

He married his high school sweetheart.

They had two children.

He had a successful business in Amityville where I lived.

He had a You know a house two cars and a dog all the things you'd expect then one day a fire in his home

Killed his wife and two children.

That destroyed him.

He became an alcoholic lost his business ultimately became homeless.

And as he told me this story, I had no way to comfort him.

I was far from being a Christian at that point.

No way to comfort him.

So I he looked across the table at me put his fingers straight out in my face and said Charlie Because

of Jesus Christ Coming into my life that changed everything.

Now that's a seed and that's 15 years from a BC a long time before I would come to know Christ.

But when I knelt on my knees in that chapel and received Christ in Asheville, North Carolina that seed came back

so don't be afraid to plant seeds with people that you evaluate as being dead and.

The the the evidentialist Perhaps is more

convinced that Man is a spiritually

depraved sinner but is Like the presuppositional

this would but he would think more in terms of the of the lost sinner being a

clean slate in regard to information perhaps whereas the presuppositionalist

Knows that everyone who claims to be an atheist and an agnostic is really Self -deceived because no

one really is an atheist or agnostic according to Romans 1.

Am I right?

Yes, that's correct.

Men are dead in their sin.

They cannot hear truth but they their minds are filled with all kinds of other

things that are there and That that will lead them astray in the sense of Romans 1 2 and

3 teaches it clearly men are depraved to start with.

They're dead and depraved but more than that God can give them over and when that happens There's a dissent

and you see that dissent illustrated greatly today in dr. Richard Dawkins one of the prime advocates revolution.

Whose Dawkins has recently said pedophilia is kind of okay, and that's a dissent.

Wow.

That's a dissent a dissent into further into sin.

While all men are sinners and lost that's a dissent down into the what I say the pit, right?

Yeah that.

There's there's a.

Both responses.

Two responses I have to that number one it is consistent

with atheism.

To believe there are no rules, that's correct.

But but even Dawkins who people view as some kind of a genius is

in some sense even Making a self -refuting statement because we don't need him then to tell us it's okay.

See, but but you got to understand.

Atheism in itself is an untenable position, right?

It's impossible because you cannot say in one sense There's no absolutes in the universe.

Because I want to do what I want to do for behavior and then say an absolute statement There is no God.

The best an atheist can ever be is an agnostic.

Atheism is a contradiction in terms.

It's an impossible position.

You can't say there's no God.

First of all, you're not omniscient.

You can't know that for certain.

Anyway, yeah, even Bill Maher made a comment.

That was true in that regard.

I don't know if he still considers himself an agnostic, but he used to say well the reason I'm an agnostic is like I

don't have all knowledge.

Okay, that's that.

That's a great admission for an atheist because a lot of atheists won't admit that they claim that we know there's no God because

right.

And then they'll give reasons and.

So as I was saying Romans 1 it gives us a clear indication that

that man Innately knows that he is in rebellion against God because he

knows the truth, but is suppressing it suppresses the truth.

Yes, if the truth is known you can't you can't understand anything in the area of science.

About the amazing things like how our bodies are made and not see that there's a designer there.

I mean, it's impossible to see there's no designer.

In fact Dawkins actually says that I was just I was working on my third book Today and I actually had a quote from Dawkins in there and

basically it says that everything looks like it's designed but it's really not.

Well, that's not science.

That's nonsense.

Yeah.

You'll find a lot of their rhetoric absolutely nonsensical.

In fact, I did a word search on the manuscript for the third book and I found the word stupid that now I've used in stupid

about five times.

We have Joe in Slovenia.

Who says dear brother Chris?

I've often heard that the fossil record doesn't give evidence for the millions of years of evolutionary theory.

However, most people believe that it does.

Please ask brother Charlie to give a concise answer that we can give to people who question six -day creation.

When they claim that the fossil record proves Millions of years what specific evidence refutes

that error?

Thanks for giving us such wonderful tools to engage the culture with the gospel.

Okay formation of fossils first of all is a process that is Sudden and abrupt

fish don't fall to the bottom of the ocean become fossilized.

Fossilized fossilization has to take place where Animals alive or dead are buried

suddenly by massive amounts of material particularly clay or mud and that'll turn into rock.

So so fossilization is a catastrophic process.

That's the first point.

The second point is when you look at the record as they constructed for evolution, they've constructed it in a circular

argument.

They've said because we see the simplest things on the bottom and they're not always on the bottom cambrian layers in some places on the

top.

But that that lower level is on the bottom.

So they say well as a result of that all the All the things that that resulted from

evolution follow.

Well, they're out of order in a lot of places.

That's another that's another point but let me get to the the real essence here.

The real essence is The fossil record was formed as the catastrophic process of Noah's

Flood took place and You can confirm that a couple ways.

Number one is 95 of all the fossils on planet Earth are in the layer that's called Cambrian

and The Cambrian layer is a layer that represents the bottom of the sea the first thing to be buried in a

global flood.

95 % of all fossils are Cambrian.

So it indicates catastrophic burial and it indicates The the lowest level

being the most buried.

There's two arguments against the evolutionary ranking of the of the the record itself.

Okay.

People talk about the fossil record.

The fact that we have amoebas today and we have humans today.

We shouldn't even have to look to the fossil record.

We should have all the in -between stages.

Walking around it or swimming or whatever.

They're talking about as far as evolution.

Yeah.

If the if the evolution is not true and it's not if evolution is not true if ever I'm somebody let back up.

But if evolution were true Then you'd expect to find biology a mass Continuum

of creatures.

Mm -hmm.

We don't we have cats and we have dogs and they're very different and.

Having said that you do believe that

Species or kinds of creatures including humans Have

changed in their structure to some degree over the years and so sure some even very radically.

You have everything from a house kitten to a.

Sabertooth tiger.

Okay.

So there are differences within species.

Let's let's go back to what what's a what's a kind?

Okay, when God created kinds, it's probably at the in bio in biology the family level.

Okay, because dogs would include dogs coyotes dingles and wolves.

They all have the same number chromosome count.

They all in interbreed.

So they're all the same kind.

So there was two two created originally with the greatest absolute variation possible.

Which means that in every gene there was one dominant and one recessive.

Which gives you the possibilities in human beings that Condition of one dominant one recessive is how Adam

and Eve were created.

There's all of mankind comes from them and the variations are incredible.

The variations of humankind in two human individuals.

Having children they'd have to have ten of the 2017th power children before they'd be a duplicate.

But that that number is beyond anything we can comprehend.

I mean the universe only has ten to the 80 Adams.

Now one thing that always has baffled me about those who claim an

age of the earth that goes into the billions of years Are even if

you wanted to say a million or a billion is how could any?

Scientific experiment.

Prove that like for instance if you Know where a

specific figure From history is buried And you

know the date that that figure from history lived.

Let's say we go to Julius Caesar or something somebody of that

nature you get you exhume a fragment of his remains and

You find out that the date that has come up that you come up with in the experiment Matches the date that he lived and so

on.

How do you get anybody to prove? through a scientific experiment that

something is.

Is.

It's phenomenally and amazingly old as even approaching a million years let alone

billions.

Well, actually you don't Chris.

What.

What you have to do is you have to take some science and make a whole set of assumptions?

The radioactive dating is the most common thing they would use but radioactive dating makes assumptions.

Assumptions that there was no daughter at the beginning that everything decayed at the same rate.

I don't know what you mean by that.

No daughter at the beginning the.

Radioactive decay is a series of steps.

Uh -huh.

You go down the ladder in the sense losing losing losing atomic number as you go down the ladder.

Okay, and what they measure is the thing that's at the bottom of the ladder.

Let's say iodine for example, or whatever you measured the bottom and you measure the top how much is there at the top

and.

Then you use that with the half with the half -life with the decay rate to determine how long that rock has been there.

The problem is first of all, the only rocks you can measure are volcanic rocks.

You can't measure sedimentary rocks.

Because the sedimentary rocks do not contain material that was frozen in time.

The material just accumulated over whoever knows how long but in a in a rock that's a basaltic rock.

That's come out of a volcano.

It is liquid and then it becomes solid that moment it changes to solid state is the moment the clock begins.

Now second thing is one of the common use used methods is called radiocarbon.

Radiocarbon simply is a method that measures living things how long living things have been dead.

So if you find a bone and you measure radiocarbon, you can estimate how long living things are dead.

Here's the problem with radiocarbon at the end of 50 ,000 years.

It's completely gone.

So you can't get to millions with radiocarbon anyway, the second thing is and this is really exciting.

In fact, I would say I say in my book their book here if evolutionary scientists were honest.

They'd realize evolution has been falsified because we have found tissue.

That is biological tissue in bones and partially fossilized bones of dinosaurs.

That can't last more than a couple thousand years.

It can't list six 65 million for sure and they've been dancing around this one for quite a long time and the fines

Seem to be exploding because there's been it was originally one and now there's been eight or ten.

I think there were 14 the last time I looked and are any of them.

Crying fraud and charlatanry is on the part of those.

No, they're they're actually accusing the scientists of contamination.

Contamination is is one out.

The other is that it was preserved because it was in a environment that was basically in a vacuum without any oxygen.

That's impossible to believe that could happen on planet Earth.

There's no way that can happen.

But that's that that's part of it and they also claim that there are some ways to preserve it using certain kinds of minerals like lead

but.

There you have evidence of people having such a convinced

presupposition That dinosaurs died before men and that the earth is billions of years old that they are

just Refusing to see what scientific evidence they are being shown.

They did.

Scientists doesn't matter to them at that point because when you attack the presuppositions, they will not give those up.

So because they won't give those up you're reasoning with a post.

You're not reasoning with someone who can raise.

Not now.

Can scientists Fairly accurately determine the age of things like for

instance In the year that Julius Caesar lived or something.

Is there a reasonable?

Accuracy.

Yes, if for example you had a you had a wooden coffin.

It was buried with the body because the body's most probably gonna be mostly turn to dust probably not gonna have any body.

But if you had a wooden coffin that was buried with the person and you excavated that coffin and took that wood and red done.

Radiocarbon you'd get you'd get an age.

That would be reasonable.

However, there's one problem if You go before the flood.

The atmospheric conditions are so different that you're not going to be able to use the radiocarbon to measure something

so you've got to be sure that what you're trying to measure is a Something that was that grew or came into being after the flood.

Because pre -flood stuff and pre floods that one of the pre -flood stuffs is the fossil fuels oil and coal.

That I mean that that's part that's part of the results of the flood.

In fact, let me say that think about that.

There's another apologetic here.

For your listeners in evangelism.

That's one thing that's really important cough fossil coal.

Diamonds and we can't really do oil but fossil coal and diamonds have been measured with radio and found radiocarbon in them.

Which means for sure it's less than 50 ,000 years old.

And that's a huge problem because they have the carbon difference period of 750 million years ago.

When they're supposed to form that stuff and they have really no a good explanation for a formula.

We've got a great explanation when the flood came it washed all the forest stuff together and buried it and under the pressure and

heat of the Being buried inside the earth.

It turned into coal and oil we could do that in the laboratory actually.

We're gonna go to a break right now.

And if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your name at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Oh, and by the way Joe in Slovenia, you have won a free copy of Charlie

Liebert's book.

Always be ready to give an answer and thank you for providing an American address where your daughter lives and

we will have that shipped to her and That will be shipped out by our friends at

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service

calm also Arthur CV BBS dot -com.

Oh, yes, Arthur in Pennsylvania is also Receiving a free copy.

I forgot about that.

Sorry about that Arthur.

And we're gonna be right back after these messages.

So if you'd like to send in a question of your own do so as soon as possible.

We look forward to hearing from you and we will be right back.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

She just tuned us in.

Our guest today is Charlie Liebert a Christian apologist and founder of six day creation .com.

He is the author of two books with Christian themes.

The first always be ready to give an answer.

Teaches a Christian evangelism strategy that gets to witnessing.

Every time an unbeliever asks you a question.

His second book Answers for the hope that is in with that is in you.

Provides answers to over 100 questions that Christians are commonly asked by

family and friends.

They can both be found at the website.

Your Christian answers calm.

That's your Christian answers calm.

His third book to be published later this year titled without three miracles Darwin's dead

that shows that science proves atheistic evolution is impossible.

Our studio co -host today again is Reverend buzz Taylor and.

We are accepting your questions at.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And we do have.

Before we go to your book.

I just wanted to get one more listener question out of the way we have.

Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia.

Who asks among the most famous world religion world religious leaders

outside of Christianity?

Such as Mohammed and others.

Do you know what the origin and age what their views are or were?

Regarding the origin and age of the universe.

Well you go to Jewish.

The Jewish would be basically young earth similar to what what the young earth Christians would be.

Is.

Islam.

Generally, there are apologists in Islam and I've seen some of their writings that are also young earth that believe that

the biblical account As it's given in the Bible as we have it, even though the Quran is different Mohammed did have

reverence for the Bible in the sense of saying a lot of it was true.

They'd be they'd be kind of To that also the rest of the world religions.

No, they would they would either not make a statement or they'd be millions and billions of years, whatever

things like Hinduism and.

Obviously, I would.

I'm assuming that there are some Jewish.

Not only theologians but scientists who would have an old earth view and even saying that Muslim

scientists as well.

Yes.

Yes, they it's gonna be mixed in all those faiths because there's always contention about it.

But you have to understand and let me I'm going I'm going back to my book now for a second.

Chris you have to understand there really are only three religions in the world.

There's the one that says God's not relevant.

That's atheism agnosticism humanism things like that.

The second religion is there is a way By some human means to get

reconciliation to God.

All the world religions recognize something's wrong with humanity.

So there's a way to get there and it's human works that would get you there in Islam.

It's Ramadan and some other things you got to do or die as a martyr in Hinduism.

It's Nirvana going around again and again again as reincarnation.

So there's that's the second religion.

That is there's a human effort way to get to God.

Christianity is a third and very different and unique because it says you ain't got no way to get to God.

You are dead in your sin and you are separated from God.

You're inside a reconcilability.

Only way that you can be reconciled to God as if God himself.

Were to pay the penalty that you can't pay and that's radical and different from other world religions.

So there's three God's not relevant.

You can get there by some means yourself or you're lost and undone and only Christ can bring you

reconciliation to God.

Well, thank you Lou in Sharpsburg, Georgia.

Make sure you get us your full mailing address so we can send you a copy of Charlie Liebert's book.

Always be ready to give an answer.

So you wanted to obviously go back to the main content of the book and the questions that you pose by

skeptics.

That we are to be ready to give an answer.

Yes.

Yeah, let's go back to that.

Well, first of all what I just recited about the religions right out of the book.

It's in a chapter called the uniqueness of Christianity.

Okay.

I just gave that to you directly but but the the the the approach here is they ask you the question and

You ask them a question Why did you ask me that?

If I answer How does it impact you?

What are what differences are making your life?

Does it really mean anything?

I mean, I've had people sell tell me that's the one question that keeps me from Christ.

I've had other people tell me.

Well, I'm just asked that because I'm a hardcore atheist.

I don't want I would just want to stump you.

So you you you probe and you ask questions until you get to their Presuppositions and get them to it

admit it.

Because an atheist if he sees his presuppositions is probably not going to be happy because most of the time

they'll get angry.

That's what I call the normal atheist response.

Okay, when you finally expose the presuppositions, they're going to get angry about it.

Because they don't like to admit that.

They're a contradiction.

They can't say there is no God because they're not omniscient.

So they have to be stuck with their view that well, I don't believe there's a God you say well.

You don't believe there's a God.

I believe there's a God and the beliefs are an equal equal level that will get them very upset.

Because they think they're superior.

Because of their viewpoint of having having the view having the definite statement.

There is no God we have.

Lamb lamb, that's obviously an alias in Valley Stream, Long Island, New York.

Who asks besides the presumption and those errors in dating methods like carbon

dating?

I always think that there's fact That God did create man and things with

age Etc or example, I'm sorry He didn't make all seeds to

start but may be very old trees here and there already.

Is that a valid point and if anyone? Considers that and

what's the reasoning behind it?

Okay when when God creates?

He creates it in a in a certain state he created Adam and Adam wasn't a single -celled zygote.

Okay, Adam was an eight what 18 to 20 year old mature man when he was created.

So anytime God creates it looks like it has age.

Doesn't Adams only seconds old, but he looks mature.

Yes, you'd ever see a painting of Adam with a pot.

And.

Eve always has long hair too.

That's another discussion.

Actually, I don't know about that one.

I don't know if the paintings that I've seen.

He has long hair with Jesus.

Oh, he's well the concept was there that She would either have pig leaves or something covering her

chest, but let's go on from it.

Oh, you mean Eve?

But anything I mean when Jesus made the cane of wine he changed the water into wine instantly but What was it?

It was old wine good wine was wine had to been well fermented because when God creates that's the way that's the way It happens.

Okay, but once he's created then the natural laws come into play and process continues in time.

So if you're looking at the age of the universe, you got to discuss then and we'd probably want to do this now to

discuss about How do we get along with the universe?

That's a hundred and eighty million light -years across maybe.

And only have our earth at 6 ,000 years old and there are three creationist answers to that.

All right.

Why don't you give them?

I'm gonna are you want?

Oh, in fact, let me just tell lamb lamb that she's won a book.

Okay, but lamb lamb, please Send me your full address so that we can have a copy of

always be ready to give an answer shipped out to you.

By CV BBS comm that CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service.

Calm.

This is an area that creationists have struggled with for a long time.

How do you explain this huge vast universe when in fact It's only it only a short age old and there are three creationist

models that are working on it.

Now remember science is never Absolute because science will always change as we discover new

things.

We discover things.

We change things.

When I was in high when I was in college I was told the cell was fill a protoplasm and the protoplasm made the cell life.

We know today.

That's that's not right at all.

It's a huge Conglomeration of all kinds of things like a small city in the cell.

But for the origin of the universe and that the the concept of the vastness of it There are three three

creationist explanations.

The first one is that the speed of light which is the measure to measure how big the universe is has declined over

time.

That although now it's down at the bottom and is not going to decline anymore.

That at the at the moment of creation it was all close to infinity.

Which means the light would have traveled vast distances in what we consider Short times in that sense.

That's that's first one Speed of light.

The second one is what's called time dilation.

We know that time is affected by gravity now.

Newton doesn't tell us that Newton tells us the opposite.

But it turns out Einstein tells us that the time is distorted by gravity and we've seen that we

actually we send the cause the astronauts up with atomic clocks in the in the above the earth and Away a little further away from

the earth gravity.

Well, we'll find their atomic clocks are gonna run little little little a little faster.

So anyway, the point simply is is that we could have one day on earth and have 50 million

years Distance from us because the gravity well is less.

So that's the second one that that theory is being worked on by about three or four different experts including I believe Jason Lyles working on I know

dr. Russell Humphreys working on it.

And and the third one is simply what you're what your listener applied before that God created with a with a Appearance of

age that when he put the stars in place He put also the light traveling from the star to the earth in place at the same time.

So the light was like a hose full of water the moment you turned on the light at the other end.

The light came out this end.

It was instantaneous because the light was already transited the whole distance.

So that's the three different models creationists being good scientists.

Don't say one or the other is true we try to work on finding out which one is true and that's the pursuit of science to find out

what is true.

Newton said at best he said that Science is really finding God's truth after him.

Well, thank you for your question, and you will be getting a free copy of

Always be ready to give an answer by our guest Charlie Liebert and Going back

to Presuppositional ism.

It's interesting.

I Believe that there are a number of evidentialists in this very field that you are discussing

when it comes to.

Using fossil records and so on.

Yes.

Yes.

There are quite a few evidentialists and If you look at the two major ministries in Christian

apologetics answers in Genesis and ICR in area of science and apologetics You'll find out that

ICR is basically an evidential ministry.

That's what they do.

They employ scientists and they do scientific research to give an answer on.

The other hand if you talk to Ken Ham and I worked for Ken Ham for three years if you talk to Ken Ham And the people in his ministry, they'll be

presuppositions.

They'll say we know what the evidence is.

But we also know that a person's presuppositions dictates how they think that they're going to come to Christ.

They've got to get to those presuppositions first.

That's the difference.

Both are powerful tools.

But it depends upon your view of mankind and my view is that Presuppositionalism is the key because you've

got to get there people got to consider what they believe before they can consider claims of Christ.

Yes, it is interesting that I when I saw Ken Ham's debate

with Phil Nye the science guy that Ken brought up a phrase that was very interesting

and And And I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was on the the

concept of seen science or The fact that those are

who are creationists Based their scientific

Views in in regard to those things that we believe in the scripture solely

based on The science that is merely backing up what we believe already

in the scriptures in other words that That when it comes to the scientific aspect

There is not a lot of discussion about great theories and mysteries of the

things that we can't prove scientifically.

And I'm done.

I'm solely talking about the scientific aspect.

I'll go back to something out of my book.

Okay, one of the one of the key things here is the differentiating the nature of science.

Science by its very nature has some significant issues.

Okay, it can't predict it can't tell us what happened yesterday.

That's a critical issue because can differentiate it between what we call observational science experiments.

You do now and get results and historical science.

We take science and try to press it back into the past determine what happened that happens and that this is right out of my book.

Now that happens all the time with juries.

You have evidence all in the present the DNA the knife the weapon whatever you have and you bring it

in the courtroom and show It to the jury.

Now the jury can't go back and see what happened.

The jury has to take that evidence and make a conclusion about what actually happened.

That's what the origins debates about same evidence.

Same science we can all go to the same Grand Canyon.

Look at the bigger hole in the ground.

But how do we get there?

We've heard the the evolution looks at it says wow.

Millions of years of erosion.

The creationist looks at that and says wow Noah's flood.

Look at how fast that stuff was carried away.

It's the same Canyon hasn't changed.

What's changed is the presuppositions of the person looking at it.

That's the point and by the way, we are going to eventually have a Pro and con back and

forth series perhaps just two days of Discussion when we have

old earth representatives here on iron sharpens iron followed by young earth Scientists and

so I just wanted to let our old earth listeners know that I am going to give you a fair hearing on the

program eventually.

Even though that is not my personal opinion but I'm even.

Where there is there is debate over the age of the earth even amongst Christians.

Yes, that's correct, but I'm talking about where you will have

Evolutionists Not only mock and laugh at and discredit but even

perhaps Ruin the careers of people who disagree with things that can never be proven

scientifically like for instance even evolution itself when you have zero fossil record of

the transitions of Men from apes or any of these other

animals from other life forms?

Where you have things like that where you are having scientists teaching these things as fact when there is

zero Evidence to prove them.

You have the the Christian who is supposed to be the the

unscientific Neanderthal for lack of a better term

moron the Christian is the one using more of of Scientific

evidence than the the secularist scientist who is a evolutionist is isn't that right?

Let me let me give a and now I'm into book three.

Okay the title of book three again, like I'd like you said before is without three miracles Darwin's dead and I'm

basically saying as a sub headline of that science proves that Atheistic evolution is impossible.

And let me address that particularly with the ape to man transition because that's an interesting area.

You'll notice that a ape to man transmissions Ape to man transitions.

There's two issues.

Number one is a lot of them are fraud fraudulent.

Okay.

I use three in my three in my book, but more than that the ones that are supposed to be in the line

Given 50 years or more of scientific certainty are thrown out there's none

none none that exists that are more than 50 years old and Every time a new one is found

you'll read the headlines and the headlines will say this this new discovery proves man evolved from apes and Throws

out everything else that went before.

Yeah, they do that every time and and the reason simply is is there's no real transitions there.

So every time someone comes along and I say Lucy Lucy's about gone now.

There's some of the scientists are really objected to Lucy Lucy Lucy's not 50 years old yet.

And but the other ones Piltdown Nebraska, man.

All these other ones Neanderthals are now regarded as fully human.

So that goes out in that book.

I have a website there that lists all the transitions and If you go through that you three take all

the Neanderthals out take all the humans out and wind up with the transitions.

You'd be lucky to fill two coffins.

There's almost nothing there and you also have the scientific proof That could be

proven through repeated experiments even though you don't need to is that.

Only dogs give birth to puppies and only cats give birth to kittens and only monkeys give

birth to monkeys only humans give birth to humans and if there is some kind of

a deformity in birth where there is a some kind of mutation they are.

Likely to be sterile not be able to reproduce.

That's correct.

And then there's something else here.

That's real important up the Other area that

that makes this critical.

No, no, the other area that makes this critical.

I've got it here is the chromosome count because When God designed the

creatures he gave them different counts of chromosomes and they the chromosomes come what one set from the male one Septum female

to make the to make the progeny and those progeny are based upon Uniting of that now

in in the case of horses and donkeys Once 40 times ones, I believe it's 46 and the

others 48, but they're close enough to create a mule but the mule can't reproduce itself, but other things like cats and

dogs and Humans and all have different counts and the counts are so different that you couldn't

crossbreed.

That's an issue that Evolutionists have never addressed and creationists for some reason don't want to attack it I think it's a

great approach to say look your chromosome counts are so different.

If evolution were true, you'd expect it to be what get a little more each time as things improved.

That's not the truth.

Not the case.

The most highest chromosome count is in a plant So that's nothing to do with

it.

So that's a that's a critical issue.

Also that the chromosome count itself.

We're going to a break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Charlie Liebert our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnz.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today is Charlie Liebert founder of six day creation.

Calm by the way the other day.

I.

Humorously made an error and announced you as the founder of seven day creation.

That calm and that was not only an error, but I created a new doctrine.

But We are discussing his book.

Always be ready to give an answer if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris ar n z n at gmail .com.

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We are back now on the air with our guest Charlie Liebert founder of six day creation

comm and we are discussing his book always be ready to give an answer and

Charlie what are some of the more prevalent?

Questions that skeptics.

Or even dare I say rigorous opponents to the Christian faith may ask that

you have brought up in your book.

Important questions that I I deal with actually before I deal with that.

Let me make a correction Chris.

I'm I cited the wrong thing I get must be dyslexic here.

I said 46 and 40 44 I believe for horse and donkey it's 64 and 62 for the

chromosome count.

The good thing because I was about to go into the lab after the show and conduct an experiment.

Remember humans at 46.

We have a lower count than chimps dogs gypsy moths silkworms and pineapples.

Just a little aside fact, okay the there are four questions that I deal with in my book that

kind of start at the beginning that are the The the most important ones that people encounter.

Okay.

Where did Cain get his wife?

They that for some reason?

The.

Unbelievers seem to think that that stumps us.

In fact I'll share a funny when I was doing radio and in North Carolina when I lived there probably 15 years ago and on a

secular station and doing question -and -answer and When when I met with the host before the radio show started

he has what kind of questions they're gonna get it.

Well, so I know one of the questions I know I'm gonna get to ask is where it can get his wife and he laughed and said that's a stupidest question.

No one's are gonna have to ask you that third caller.

Yes that question.

Third caller.

Third caller asked that question.

So so that there are four up front in the this is now my second book answers for the hope that's in you.

And there are four questions up front that I did that I deal with in depth because there's some of the ones that are most Critical.

Cain's wife is the first one.

The second one is what happens if the guy in the jungle never heard the gospel.

Does he go to hell?

That's a question that challenges Christians and I've got a reasonably concise answer for that in about four or five pages.

Okay, the third question is why do bad things happen to good people?

That's again answered in depth because that's a question that Christians get challenged on all the time.

And the fourth one is really a whole lot of materialist things.

Like I only believe what I can see faith is for fools the materialist worldview viewpoint.

Okay, everything is relative.

There are no absolutes it goes on and on like well.

I know that the second and third answer is they don't and they don't say don't.

Exactly, not.

Not necessarily for the reasons that people may think some people in fact

There are multitudes of Roman Catholics who would say that the innocent poor native

in the jungle that never heard the gospel will Be going to heaven because of Vatican twos

introduction of a more milder kinder and gentler

understanding of invincible ignorance and They

would teach that they if men Respond favorably to God

According to the light that they have that they will be in heaven, of course likely going through

purgatory first according to the Catholic understanding, but you also have modern

evangelicals saying the same thing you have.

You know, of course mainline Protestants many of them don't even believe that you have to have

any belief or understanding of the gospel.

In fact some would even question whether you are a Christian if you do believe in the.

Exclusive claims of Christ.

I'm gonna back Chris to the debate you had in town here recently.

Yes, and and and if you heard what the Protestant debater said, dr. Tony Costa, dr. Tony Costa.

Well talk to her.

He said very very clearly the one foundation for our belief is scripture period.

There's nothing else and the Catholics said there were three different sources.

So, of course the Catholics can conclude anything they want.

But I would say to the to the challenge you just gave it's simply Romans chapter 1.

It's clear men are dead in their sin and they're condemned already when they are not ignorant.

They're not ignorant all men know the truth.

They suppress it in unrighteousness is what Romans says.

They suppress it and that because they suppress it They won't won't hear it and they're dead in their sin.

So all men from birth are condemned to hell.

God chooses by his grace to save some and don't ask me why.

Now there are certain facts that men are ignorant of.

That require.

Special revelation meaning the scripture as opposed to natural revelation, so I don't want to exaggerate the

Fact that not all that that men are not ignorant.

I mean they are ignorant of many key facts of the scriptures, but They are not

Poor or innocent.

No, that's right.

There is no one who is poor or innocent who is going to hell.

Because there is no one who is poor or innocent.

Well, but I mean obviously right there are people who are financially poor, but I mean by that there's nobody who's innocent innocent.

Right, and we have to be careful because there is that emphasis in evangelicalism today that says we're all

victims when in fact.

We're culprits.

We're not victims at all.

We're culprits.

Exactly, right?

We're guilty, right?

And the other a question that somehow escaped my mind about there.

They don't what was the other one that I said.

That the third question.

That that people pose that you brought up in your.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I lost track of what you're talking about.

Question number three were the materialism was the fourth one.

The third one was why do good bad things happen to good people?

Oh, yeah, and they and they don't because there is no good.

There's no good people.

They're no not one.

Yeah, that's right, right.

But obviously though if you even want to take a few a few steps back

And use the word good mm -hmm on a relative

way of explaining certain people Comparative to

overtly Rebellious and wicked people there are people who are deemed by their fellow men to be

good who still have horrible things occur to them.

You have people who Who are like wonderful

Family members and members of members of the community and citizens Who were slaughtered in

the Holocaust not only Jews there were Christians who died in the Holocaust, you know, you have all kinds of things

happen to those Who are valuable members of our society who are deemed to be on a

human understanding of the term good?

Good in fact, very good wonderful praiseworthy even Christians can

find The reprobate among us Who are praiseworthy?

In that in answer that question Chris, I posed another question again going back to the my apologetic method I posed

another question say well, well what what's what's a bad thing that happened and I use this example.

It's a great example.

Okay Johnny Erickson Tata has been extremely effective in getting wheelchairs into places in third world countries where

the people would never have a wheelchair.

And she's been able to do that because of her ministry related to her fact that she's a quadriplegic.

Now if she had never taken that dive and broken her neck and become a quadriplegic that ministry would never have happened.

So was it a good thing or a bad thing that you broke her neck and That's something that you got to say.

It's in God's Providence and as a result God would bring thing bring bring good things out of it.

So as a believer, you can say all things work together for good.

I don't understand it.

I have friends that have gotten serious diseases and died much younger than I am now.

I don't understand it, but I know that God is sovereign and God loves us.

And of course the the complete.

Text that you were citing is all things work together for the good for those who love

God and are the cold.

According to his purpose.

That's exactly right.

So not everything is gonna work together together for things that not work together for the good for Hitler.

No, not at all.

Not at all.

Most evil men that things don't work together for good.

You know, that's the flip side of the coin you were just mentioning though, you know about the what bad things but

there are bad things that happen to.

Supposedly good people when you see.

But the question then becomes well, how did how can you determine whether something's bad or not?

Exactly?

And of course This is not all there is.

This is not our best life.

Now as Joel Osteen says is possible.

And you heard it here first.

Chris is quoting Joel Osteen.

Now we have those of us who.

Have eternal life.

Have eternal life.

I mean we there is a life after this one that is Indescribably joyful and

blissful and free from a single tear so those

bad things happen because even the Apostle Paul said that they

Strengthen us don't they don't they?

Yes, don't they strengthen our faith?

And In fact, we are supposed to rejoice in all things all things.

Yeah, and we are to also comfort those Who have gone

through great loss through our own?

Example of suffering and so on.

So but as far as All the evil that occurs in the world it eventually

is going to bring In some way, even if we can't see it this side of heaven.

It's going to bring glory to God.

Yes, it is and and and.

God will finally judge at the end of time and that judgment will be final.

And Men's answer to God's question as to why should

I? Reconcile you to myself has only one answer that's valid because Jesus

paid the price that I could not pay.

And the other answer that I'm good enough is not good doesn't right doesn't fly.

No doesn't work.

Yes, and I'm looking at the passage that I was

Citing before We have in 1st Thessalonians 5

18 and everything give thanks for this is God's will for you in Christ

Jesus.

No matter what the circumstances that surround us we are to

praise God knowing that he will work all things together for the good for those who love him and

What we see and experience on this earth Is not the whole picture.

It's not the end of the story.

Yeah, we obviously all all of the All of the contributors to the New Testament it would

be with the exception of John were martyred and I and people would say well that there's

so much for that religion look that all of the followers of Jesus who are Most prominent who gave us the

Bible except for John were murdered.

Well, what happened from that?

I mean thousands have followed seeing that example and we have the law one

of the largest World religions.

More importantly we have the gospel that gives eternal life in our in our scriptures.

Well right now if you if you just think about it right now at this moment as we're sitting here in the studio doing this Show

there are Christians in the world being murdered.

Right now probably in some Islamic countries in war zones that are being murdered for their faith.

Not for any reason but simply because they're believers and we have to understand that that's that that's part of the

nature of the world.

This world is dominated by sin, but we have that hope.

That we know that this is not the end.

This is not the the wonderful place to be.

This is where we are and Being redeemed in Christ then we should carry that gospel forward into our

culture.

And that's what that first book is about.

Yeah, how do you.

How do you respond to the prevalent Arminian answer to that question?

You may be sitting at lunch.

You're sitting next to your Arminian friend who's a Christian.

Okay.

And there is a lost person or people on the other side of the table asking you questions and the

Arminian friend of yours says Let me get this Charlie.

The reason why there's evil in the world is because God so loves us that he does

not want to remove our free will.

Because otherwise we would be all robots.

So therefore since we have free will unfortunately Humanity is going to have

the curse of Those freely acting doing harmful and wicked things to us.

First thing is you have an illusion of free will.

You don't have free will?

The illusion is a free will.

Because your free will doesn't exist because as a sinner lost from

Christ You will only do things that propagate your sin.

You will never do something that's going to be pleasing to God because the only thing pleasing to God is to seek Reconciliation with him and that's only through

the blood of Jesus.

So the the Arminian falls short there.

Okay.

He also falls short in understanding the world itself.

If you understand the world if God brought judgment tomorrow all of mankind is wiped out.

He's withheld his judgment intentionally after after promoting after having Jesus die and

For and shed his blood for the elect.

He's he's he's withheld his judgment.

Because if he did tomorrow everyone's gone.

But he's withheld it because he's allowing time to progress to the end When the judgment will come and

the judgment is certain.

And there is and of course.

We who are on earth experience much more of the

The harm that can be done to mankind the the sorrow and grief and misery

That not only comes through the hands of sinners it comes through the hands of

Natural catastrophes like tornadoes and floods and it comes through things like disease not

all of which are direct Examples of the acts

of sinners.

They are part of the curse, of course of the fallen world But it is but God is the

one that controls the weather.

And yet you have sometimes Thousands of people many of them being devout and faithful

Christians being destroyed and you have all other kinds of things that I mentioned happening so therefore what

the free will of man has.

No Has no point in that that equation if you follow.

Am I right?

Yeah, that's correct.

And and we can't control those things.

I mean Weather is kind of one of the funniest things around, you know, everybody says everybody predicts it.

But nobody knows for sure what's gonna happen and it's because it we don't have complete knowledge.

We don't have complete knowledge because I have complete knowledge.

We cannot we cannot come to absolute truth ourselves.

We have to rely on a source to give that to us and that source is the scripture.

You go back in the scripture.

You'll see many times Jesus said that when he talked about the the the tower at Siloam He said those guys were

all killed when this tower crashed.

Were they more guilted than somebody else?

No, that's just the nature of the world because sin -cursed world is full of all kinds of things that are

counter to the betterment of mankind.

Disease another one.

That's a big subject disease.

Why do we have disease?

We have disease because when Adam fell the whole creation changed.

The scripture says clearly the whole creation is groaning.

Yes because of That one act and I'll give you a real example.

I like from scripture.

Okay, we have the Arabs and the Jews in the Middle East and they're never gonna get along.

I Mean, they're just gonna be at each other forever.

I guess you're not a post -millennial.

It's.

Your partner there.

That's probably not the show because but.

My point is this.

That conflict even if you go post -millennial say it's gonna disappear.

That conflict is a result of a single sin.

Abraham went into Hagar and that started that.

So one sin has huge consequences.

Well in fact all sins have huge consequences because the wages of sin is death and Men will die because they're

sinners and because they actively sin.

But Christ paid the penalty for that.

We're going to go to our final break right now.

And if you would like to join us on the air with a question for Charlie Liebert.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

Don't go away we'll be right back with Charlie Liebert and Always be ready to give an answer after these

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnz.

And if you just tuned us in our guest today is Charlie Liebert founder of six -day creation.

Calm and in studio with me is my co -host Reverend buzz Taylor if you'd like to.

Join us on the air with a question.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and we do have an anonymous listener in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Hi, Chris.

Thanks for interviewing Charlie today.

Great discussion.

I'm certainly not a clever or wise apologist or Conversationalist.

Oh there you have a buzz Taylor to have much in common with.

I'm like

I'm just kidding.

Buzz is quite an impressively intelligent man.

How do I speak to my dear friend like a sister of 30 years who is an agnostic and sees no personal need

for Christ?

Is there a presupposition on which I can meet her in discussion?

I speak of my faith with her a lot and when God persuaded me of Doctrines of

grace and I explained it she said well that makes so much more sense.

I prayed for 30 years that God would save her and use me if it pleases him any

advice.

Though I know God works in the heart without and in spite of my clever words or

advice.

Thank you anonymous.

You you want to get to her presuppositions?

You want to get to the idea that do you really believe that this world has no God?

Do you really believe the design in nature the design in your body just came about by accident?

You want you want to probe to that that the the presupposition that God an agnostic would

say I don't know if there's a God or not, and I really don't care.

Well, the question is you're gonna have to get to should you care and should you care based upon

What you see in the world now?

The biggest reality that the that you can confront with in this area and this is one that you've got to be

careful with is death itself.

You know, we're all gonna die.

No, nobody escapes this world.

Okay, you you can as one of the people I know said you come in naked you out naked.

I mean it isn't you you're gonna you're gonna be confronted with your mortality and that's something that in

discussing the gospel that's something you can talk about as.

To you know, how do you how do you regard him at your how old however old you are?

How much longer you're gonna live?

There's no guarantees.

I mean I had six peers in high in high school and four of them are dead and

The rest of us are gonna go there too.

So I think mortality is probably the best approach to an agnostic.

For an atheist I'd look at I'd look at the the contradiction.

There is no God and then there's no road everything's relative.

But but for an agnostic I would look more to mortality and the design in in in the universe.

I mean, it's so obvious that that there's a designer somewhere.

I'll give you an example the All the materials required for for a watch are

either dissolved in the ocean.

You could find in the sand on the beach.

But we don't walk around the coast looking for watches.

Because what a watch requires a designer.

That's Paley's argument and the argument simply is this that the complexity we see in the world

cannot come about by natural processes, it's impossible and Recognizing that you've got to say

well then who is the designer?

Has he said anything to us if he said something?

How's he said it?

That's the questions that'll come when you've when the person's recognize that now bear in mind.

What we've talked about a couple times here today that people are dead in their sin and they can't hear that however,

you plant seeds and you allow God to work and You pray most important

you pray.

Because God answers prayer number one.

Number two is God has to take that person to make them alive.

They're dead in their sin.

They're like Lazarus in the cold stone.

He's laying there on the bottom his body's decomposing when Jesus calls and what has to happen.

Holy Spirit's got to come on that body and make it alive first.

That's what Jesus calls ears to hear and that's the important part of it.

Okay.

So you've got to pray that the person would would would have ears to hear and you've got to plant seeds

of doubt in what They believe in and part of that is mortality.

Part of that's design design in nature.

Well, thank you anonymous in Indiana, and we are going to mail you a free copy of Charlie

Liebert's book.

Always be ready to give an answer and Please give us your full name and full

mailing address that will not be obviously divulged on the air.

Thank you very much for that question and That is being shipped to you.

Compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book

service dot -com CV BBS dot -com and Before the

break Reverend buzz Taylor.

You were bringing up something about yes.

I start with my confession that I made during the break.

The confession I made during the break I wouldn't dare say this on the air.

Of course is that when I was making my last point I sort of lost my train of thought.

So don't tell anybody but when I was talking about, you know, looking at the flip side of the coin.

And Charlie you brought out the fact that you know Jenny Erickson Todd is a classic example of something

bad happening to somebody that ultimately has been for good.

But I Wanted to bring out the point that there are things that are happening.

You know bad things because of bad people and of course the the main one that people like to go to is things like the Holocaust.

You know, well here Hitler, you know was a terrible murderer and all these people

Die all these innocent people died.

How terrible it is how can you believe in a God would allow something like that to happen.

And the answer from a non -christian worldview is How can you say that that was bad?

How what by what standard can you say Hitler was wrong?

I mean after all you believe in survival of the fittest.

Well Hitler was the most fit at that time.

Yes, that's and and that's a key issue.

Okay, that's let's make it clear.

What you're talking about is that the atheist has no Logical reason to

give anyone.

Guidelines for morality, right?

They cannot say what is right and what is wrong.

What's a good thing?

What's a bad thing, right?

There's no there's no basis, right?

Yes, and and before you.

Continue with that answer Charlie.

I just wanted to give a very vivid example of Where an atheist was actually

honest when faced with the dilemma of answering that question.

I Arranged a debate of several years ago In Amityville Long Island, okay, the Freedom

Chapel on route 110 in Amityville.

I know it an assembly of God congregation Where my friend pastor Jimmy Jack is the

pastor and Bobby Lloyd is the associate pastor but they they were the hosts of that debate that I

arranged between James White and Notorious atheist David Silverman who is now the president of

American atheists Which was founded by Madeline Murray O 'Hare and even more notorious atheist that is now

dead And sadly and tragically in hell for all eternity unless

she was somehow converted without our knowledge, but.

The.

When the question was posed about how Morality is determined if an atheistic

worldview is true David Silverman basically said that it was Developed

morality is established by the majority of people who happen to be living in a particular

geographic area in a particular era of history.

So then dr. White said to this Jewish atheist ethnically Jewish atheist

so you mean if you were being marched through the gates of Auschwitz the death

camp the only thing that the only thing that you could really say is

Objection to this happening to you is I find this personally offensive.

You couldn't say that it was wrong or evil.

It's just that it's bothering you personally.

And he basically he admitted and he said yes.

Well, that's the that that's how the world justifies abortion.

We know that life begins at the when the zygote is formed when the sperm and the egg come together.

We know that that's real science, but even even a.

Pro -abortionist or pro -choice person.

Has to it at the very least admit that they are guessing and gambling that they may be.

Promoting the murder of a human life because none of them can say with certainty that it's not human life.

That's absurd.

That's completely that's that's just just absurd.

Scientifically if we know that's a human life from conception.

I mean all all that one cell has to do is survive.

Nourishment time protection and it becomes a full -grown adult if it doesn't die for some

reason and.

That that's a process.

That's only reversible by what by death so the only way you can stop that process is to

kill the person and.

This this is where atheism comes out very clearly in this culture or humanism if you want to call it that.

Because I'll call it humanism because that's the basis of education.

But it comes out very clearly in this culture because you said they say there are there are no moral absolutes.

Well, then who determines the morality the majority?

That's pretty dangerous.

Because the majority can decide pretty much anything it wants to.

Yeah, and let me repeat our email address.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and please give us your first name your city and state and your country

of Residence if you live outside of the good old USA.

Let's see, I'd like to go to one more thing for my book.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

I just wanted to this is on.

It's on page 56.

I talk about equations to go to heaven or hell.

And and and I just want to cite these for the listeners because I thought this was a pretty interesting way.

You've got mankind and you've got God's law and you've got good works

and they equal hell.

You've got mankind you've got God's law and you've got grace and that gives you heaven, but it

also gives you good works.

Good works moves to the other side of the equation.

So mankind and God's law brings condemnation even with good works.

It doesn't matter how good you are I've had people tell me well, I'm good enough.

You know, I've never committed adultery.

I've never killed anyone.

I'm probably good enough to pass God's standard and the answer is no you're not.

You're a sinner but with grace.

You get heaven and then what from that life if God wanted to populate heaven with believers.

The moment we are saved take us out.

He doesn't he wants us here for a couple reasons.

One of them is evangelism.

A second is to do good works to do things.

I mean Jesus said take care of the orphans of the widows.

Do do you do to do things to help your help your society but believers first but then

the whole society gets has to benefit and it's something there's something the church gave up probably about the

Civil War maybe a little before that the church gave up that responsibility and turned it over to the state.

Probably one of the worst things that ever happened in this country because the state doesn't administer any kind of help to people.

Well.

It makes them dependent and that's the last thing you want to do is make people dependent.

That's a whole nother political discussion.

Chris.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania who says how can you explain?

To those who say that God if he exists would be unjust for

punishing anyone in hell.

Who had never even had an the opportunity to hear of him who had never met an evangelist or

missionary?

Because when you are born you're born destined for hell.

It's the nature of your coming coming as a child of Adam a son or daughter of Adam and Eve.

You are you that that is your destiny?

It's God's justice has to be satisfied and his justice simply is that anyone that says sinned

is condemned already?

So whether a person hears or not is really irrelevant.

What's relevant is the fact that you are born in sin and you are a sinner by action.

It's both nature and action understand that both ways.

Okay, the two -year -old that is dry Got a clean diaper on just had

dinner and starts to cry for attention is what it's a sin.

It has no real need.

It just wants what it wants as a person and that's the nature of sin itself.

We want what we want and God says no.

My law is pretty simple obey it perfectly or you're condemned and no one obeys it perfectly except Jesus.

Now The people very often operate under the assumption

in fact some people even who profess to be Christians who are More of an Arminian bent.

Okay, they under the they operate under the false assumption that man is Spiritually

or morally neutral.

So you have these morally neutral people living in the jungles and in the deserts where they never hear

the gospel and People are thinking God is going to punish these people in hell for eternity who

otherwise would have embraced the truth but they weren't given the

opportunity and and they believe that somehow these morally and spiritually neutral people

are wandering around as law -abiding good and decent

Citizens of their own tribe or wherever they are where they are doing nothing but

gracious and kind and selfless and generous Things to their fellow man wherever they are,

but but people who are born Totally depraved are going to be sinning even if they

never hear what God's law is.

Am I right there?

There's no such person as morally neutral, right?

Okay, when you find the person that can say at a mature age, let's say 19 or 20 years old.

I've never told a lie.

I've never stolen anything.

I've never deceived anyone.

I've never desired to have someone else's property which are all part of the Ten Commandments.

I've never done any of that ever in my whole life.

That's a you'd left them out of the room.

You'd say we know you're a person you've done that kind of stuff.

Come on, you haven't lied.

You didn't like your parents when you were child.

Didn't tell them it you know.

You'd got delayed here because you couldn't get home on time.

Come on, you've broken the law and because you've broken the law it has a condemnation.

Condemnation is simple anyone that breaks the law.

Yeah, just get his death and the fact that any missionaries reach any of these people or

some other means are used to communicate them the The doctrines

of salvation like for instance if in a more civilized area where

You have Muslims who may never hear the gospel from a missionary, but they hear it on the internet or something.

Or they find a Bible.

The fact that God rescues any of them is a gracious and merciful and amazing thing

because These people by nature hate the Jesus of the Bible and the

God of the Bible and Were it not for his sovereign and electing grace and his his

regenerating power through the Holy Spirit even when presented with the truth

unless The Holy Spirit were to convert them. They would still reject and hate

the truth.

That's like the rich man in hell.

Yeah when he was telling Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his brother his brothers

Abraham said if they don't hear the law and the prophets that they're going to reject even one who raises from the dead.

There's a interesting part of the Hindu cultures.

Not been reached until relatively modern times and two things about that.

Number one is Ravi Zacharias comes out of that culture and he's a great apologist.

But more than that there was a mystic girl probably in the last century maybe even the late 18th century

by the name of Sundar Singh and He honestly said claim to make the claim that I he was

seeking God.

But this is what he said if he was converted to Christianity.

He said meeting God was like finding an old friend.

I kind of knew he was there but I never knew till someone shared the gospel.

How he came to us.

So he was basically saying the gospel comes in a way that I could understand it and it and it

made sense to me.

But God was obviously wooing him for a long period of time before he actually came because the missionary had to knock on the door

and Say here it is.

He just died for your sin.

You want to accept this penalty this payment?

And of course that actually, you know happened in the scenario we were sharing before.

Yes about that poor native somewhere in Africa that never heard the gospel that would have

otherwise turned to Christ.

That's an assumption that we can't make dogmatically that he would have.

If no, there's no.

If you there's no ifs.

Oh.

By the way, Arnie, I think that we have enough copies.

I think you may be the last winner of Always be ready to give an answer

by our guest Charlie Lieber if you don't I have more.

Okay, well Charlie even if we ran out Charlie, we'll make sure that you get one.

Thank you for submitting the question and please send us Your mailing address.

Thanks again for contributing to iron sharpens iron with your question.

What are some more of.

I mean you said you listed four of these.

The most important.

What are the some of the other questions that are very common for skeptics to.

Present to the coast one of the one of the dialogues I have a lot on is older at the young earth and let's explore that For a moment

because that's a debate amongst the debate amongst Christians.

Yeah, let's explore the boom and and and you know I'm asked frequently.

Well, why are you young earthquake?

Why don't you just say you're just a you know a Christian and a creationist and go from there and and not do it and and

I I Say there's a there's a theological issue.

Not it's not a science issue.

You gotta understand science is changing all the time.

Science comes up with new discoveries and new conclusions and new ways to understand the world around us, right?

That happens continually.

That's the nature of science.

That's the way it works.

However, truth is truth.

And and this is this is my issue here.

My issue is pretty simple at the end of the sixth day.

The Bible says clearly and I'll go back to the Hebrew in a second Bible says clearly God looks at everything.

He's made.

And it is very good that very good expression Hebrew denotes both completeness and

perfection.

So that God is looking at the creation and saying it's very good.

Which means that there can be no death before that because death is the penalty for sin that doesn't

come until Genesis chapter 3.

There's no death before that.

So my issue here is the old earth models and atheistic evolution and theistic evolution.

All have death as a process before sin in evolution.

It's part of the process that drives it forward in old earth creation it's just part of the world because the world

couldn't have existed without death if you've got millions or thousands or hundreds of thousands or Billions of

years so the death is present.

So that's that's my litmus test there and you're specifically talking about.

Animal and human death because obviously even in the young earth scenario there is death of plant life.

Yeah, I'm talking about death and death is defined in Scripture as the loss of the nefesh, which is the soul life.

Which is animals and humans.

It does not include plants.

Please sides plants don't die when you consume them.

You eat the orange and swallow the pits.

The pits come out and what that pit can grow into a new tree.

That plant hasn't died that plants been consumed and God gave us plants for that purpose oxygen and

food.

Because that's the only process by which we survive photosynthesis.

That's an interesting sidelight.

So you mean that those sounds of my salad screaming were only in my only in your head?

The lettuce doesn't care.

Lettuce has no care, but but it's that look and incidentally that soul.

Life does not include insects.

That nefesh word in the Hebrew which talks about the soul and being in.

It's the higher animals and it's the humans.

So that kind of death didn't exist.

So I'm certainly.

I'm certain that Adam was very happy that mosquitoes did die.

Yes.

And also you have to understand that The permission to kill and eat animals only comes after the flood

and it's because that lush garden was gone all that plant material had become coal and oil and

The the what was left was not enough to sustain the humankind that was going to come on the earth.

So God said well now you could kill and eat animals.

But he also told us to care for them.

We have a mandate to care for the animals and.

What about the fact that obviously one of the

Arguments that skeptics agnostic agnostics and atheists and even

Muslims and people within the cults actually take advantage of

information by Agnostics like the apostate from

Christianity who became a Agnostic Bart Ehrman, it's interesting how

many Muslims use his his data to discredit the reliability of the New

Testament.

And so, what do you make of The the

arguments that.

Well, we cannot trust that the Bible being a book that.

Is.

Thousands of years old is actually accurate today.

How could it possibly have been preserved.

And You don't even have agreement amongst people who call themselves Christian on what it

teaches.

And that kind of thing.

And they will they will say that that there were thousands of errors.

Or discrepancies when I when I get that objection thousands of discrepancies in the manuscript I

say to the person that that tells me that that comes to me and I say Let's take one manuscript

whichever one you want to take the septus or whichever one as as the authority.

Okay, let's not go to the multiple manuscripts because they had to be reconciled but let's look at what it's just to one my manuscript

and say well What does that tell us a couple couple proofs of the reliability scripture and some of this goes back to some of

the writings of?

Josh McDowell is the fulfillment of prophecy and I'll give an example

In the higher critics in the late 1800s Had a couple things to say about the scripture.

One of the things they said was it can't be right and It was written after the fact the book of Isaiah

had to be written after the events that happened in the book of Isaiah because the

Prophecies are so specific.

It's not possible for anyone to predict that closely the events that were going to happen.

Well 1948 those critics were destroyed when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls because they found them

before the events of Isaiah took place and containing the whole book of Isaiah.

Now those same critics said in and probably the late 1800s.

That it was impossible in the book of Revelation for the whole world to see two witnesses dead in the streets.

That's obviously an impossible thing.

So the Bible can't be true.

Well, what do we do today?

We turn on our TVs and see what's happening anywhere in the world.

So the the point simply is that any place the scripture addresses an issue.

Find show me where it's wrong and the answer is you can't there are no contradictions.

There are issues there are Seeming contradictions, but there are no real contradictions when you look at it.

You'll you'll see that and like I said when I get challenged that in general just general my general context

I always ask that well, give me a couple.

Let me see what you're talking about.

I've never had anyone give me any.

Well, I'd like you to now have the next four minutes to Summarize everything that you most want

to be etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners before they leave the program.

Okay, let's come to two things.

The the first thing is being ready to give an answer.

Okay, as as a believer, you should be maturing in Christ.

Number one. You should be growing up in doctrine.

You should be studying scripture and praying but more than that you should be witnessing.

Jesus told us that's one of the things we're to do or to take the gospel to the whole world and to do that.

You've got to have a strategy for evangelism yourself and that strategy has to be able to get to the gospel.

So my first book here always you're ready to give an answer.

Simply says this is a strategy.

This is what this is how Jesus handled it.

It's very simple.

You ask a question.

It's going to derail you it's going to take you off the subject.

You're going to get away from being able to spiritual things.

You don't answer the question you probe with other questions.

Like why do you ask me that to get to their presuppositions once you've exposed their presuppositions you've seen where

they are.

Then you tell them let me explain to you why.

I think there's an answer and you give a testimony.

You always give a testimony because you're planting a seed.

You have no clue what that soil is.

Is that soil ready to receive who knows it doesn't matter.

Frank was 15 years BC for me, but that would come back.

The seed he planted would come back.

So you plant you plant the seed and then you go back to the question now for questions today.

Two things number one is my second book, which is called answers for the hope that's in you.

He's got 106 question answers in it.

Okay.

But more than that if you go to a site like answers in Genesis almost any question you're going to be asked is going to Be answered there.

So there's resources today with the Internet to get to those answers.

So the most important thing to me is to communicate to your listeners the important value of sharing the gospel through

testimony.

Now when you get to a place where a person is we'll have to cover this another time.

We get to put where a person is ready to receive the gospel got to go about what I call closure.

You've got to bring it in.

You've got you got to you got the fish on the hook.

I said Peter probably would think and you got to bring the fish in now.

You've got you got to bring that conclusion and if you think about Lazarus as an example.

Let me use that as example.

Lazarus is dead in the tomb his body's decaying and Mary says he's gonna stink and he probably would because he's three days three days dead

or three or four days dead and Jesus calls him out.

Well first Holy Spirit comes on Lazarus body makes it alive.

Lazarus laying there on the cold stone wrapped up in the grave cloths and he hears Jesus call.

He gets up off the cold stone walks out.

That's man's responsibility.

Okay, man's got to respond to the gospel.

There's a human responsibility there and then after that responsibility he comes out of the grave and what he's like completely

bound up.

With these cloths that's a representative of sin.

He's got to be unbound.

That's discipleship.

That's a place where the church tends to fall down.

Okay, you need to take that new believer and bring that new believer simply into the basic doctrines of

Christianity to understand.

What's your daily practice your daily practices read the scripture pray?

Look around you for opportunities to witness all the things that we would do as a mature believer.

We want to teach the new believers to do.

I I do part of my part of my teachings with Christian businessmen CBMC here in Carlisle and that's one of the things I'm

teaching now is is evangelism and Simply simply to share the gospel with anyone you

encounter.

Well, Charlie, it's been a joy to have you back on the program.

I look forward to your return not only as a guest but also as a co -host along with Reverend buzz Taylor.

Thank you on iron sharpens iron and I want to give your contact information.

I know that six day creation calm and your Christian answers and your Christian

answers.

Calm that's six day creation calm and that's the word six spelled out.

Six day creation calm and your Christian answers.

Calm for anybody wishing to find out more about the books that Charlie Liebert has written.

Charlie Liebert in case you're wondering is a member of Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Carlisle,

Pennsylvania and He is a theologically reformed Christian

Apologist and in fact today we have All three and the

only three reformed churches in Carlisle, Pennsylvania represented we have.

Yeah, that's true.

We have Reverend buzz Taylor who is a member of Carlisle reform Presbyterian Church.

We have Charlie Liebert who's a member of the Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church, and I'm a member of Grace Baptist Church the

Outnumbered Reformed Baptist in the group, but I want to thank everybody for give you for that.

I want to thank everybody for Listening, especially those who wrote in questions.

Please don't forget to pray about iron sharpens iron and our urgent need for donations and new advertisers.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far far greater Savior.

Than you are a sinner.

We look forward to hearing from you with your questions for our guests tomorrow on iron sharpens iron radio.