Engaging Christian Gnosticism

Non rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it.

Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

Delusional. Yeah delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay.

It doesn't really hurt.

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right? Don't go in the world make homies right disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle Nick.

That's a joke pastor when we have the real message of truth.

We cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not but in fact Christ has been raised from the dead.

The firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep for as by a man came death by a man has come also the Resurrection of the dead. For as an Adam all dies so also in Christ shall all be made Alive but each in his own order.

Christ the firstfruits. Then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every Authority and power for he must reign.

Until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. What's up y 'all welcome back to another episode of Apologia radio, I am Jeff they call me the ninja. That's Luke the bear right there.

What uh, this is the gospel heard around the world. You guys can all go to Apologia studios. Calm a p o l o g i a studios. Calm to get more we have a lot of stuff at Apologia studios. Calm encourage you guys to go there.

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Do you have anything want to start with. Just wonder if you're having lunch on the show today? Oh you see that? Yeah, I.

Did I put my lunch right here today? I'm just because I'm a hunk man I might. I've been exercising and getting back in shape again and everything doing my training in the morning. And so I'm trying to eat.

Well, and I'm also I'm Foggy if I don't eat like consistently any welcome to my world. I need lots of protein. Yes, lots of protein. So Welcome everybody. Hey, welcome. This is the quarantine special.

Everybody how you guys doing at the lockdown spelt. C o r n t e e n. Hey, look at this quarantine.

The name of this tonic water here is Called Q. Oh, oh. You think that's a that's a the saying something. There's some special message there's.

So.

Yeah, welcome everybody from the the quarantine special. We are gonna do something actually very important today if you saw the Title of the show and you're like, I don't know what any of that means. I don't know why it's important.

I don't know if I invest an hour of my life into this. Trust me you do. I think you're gonna learn things in this show that might startle you Theologically and that's always a good thing to be startled in terms of realizing traditions that you've adopted or we've adopted that are not in accordance with scripture.

I am gonna challenge you to watch this show and see if you can find me any of your Gnosticism. And you're like wait what Gnosticism who were they well they're not. Gnostics were like the arch enemies of the church and remain so in many ways and You do see the Apostle Paul and Apostle John dealing with early forms of Gnosticism in the New Testament itself they are the enemies of the church and Unfortunately, very very unfortunately Gnosticism has found its way into the minds and hearts of many Christians over church history and I would say much of evangelicalism in the West has adopted very a very Gnostic perspective of the world and the future and particularly heaven and earth and those sorts of things and so I Think that I think many many of you watching today may actually discover that what you've believed about the future what you've believed about the world.

And heaven one day and those sorts of things are actually Gnosticism. Mm-hmm, and if you don't believe me stick with us stay with us, please listen be humble. Because we need to shed this nonsense quickly the quicker we shed it the more effective will be.

I believe and so what we have Done today is pulled together one of our good friends. You know him. You love him. So do we dr. Andrew Sandlin? I was talking to candy the other day. She knew we had Andrew on and I said, yes.

Yeah, we had a channel and she goes man. I love that man. I was like me too. My wife always says she's like I love him so much and I was like me, too She's like, he's such a humble and sweet man. And I was like, yeah, and he's a beast when it comes to theology.

So so he's got it all together.

So yeah, it's funny. We love him for different reasons like you and I love him because of his size of his brain. Yes, and our wives love him because he's sweet. He's a super sweet man. Yeah, he's like a big teddy bear.

So stellar feels the same. He's like his is Andrew gonna be at that thing. Is he he's so nice. He's such a sweet man. So, yeah, anyway, and dr. Andrew Sandlin is a good friend of ours. We love him very very much appreciate his ministry.

If you don't know him get to know dr. Sandlin. We'll make sure you guys have resources after this. But anyway Luke the other day on the elder thread. We have a private out with elder thread where we all rap with each other and Luke's sense.

Yeah, that's right not let it be cool to see dr. White you happen. But dr. White's been doing a lot lately on Gnosticism so that sort of kind of helped with this show's creation. Luke sent a link to dr. Sandlin's talk on Gnosticism there and I listened to it twice Saturday night.

Just because it was just so encouraging. It's just a wonderful wonderful message. I'll make sure that in the in the in this show later We'll put a link to that message. You guys get chance to listen to that.

Please do please please listen that message and I got to say this I was contemplating this you sent the link I was studying so I listened to it and I listened to it again and I thought to myself I'm gonna find a way to advertise this and tell people like Hey gird up your loins and and you know, I'm saying like people go.

Oh, it seems like a deep thick like sort of like out there theological thing get through the first 20 minutes. Not that it's not good. But if it seems like I don't get it like why is this important get through the first 20 minutes?

Like, you know gird up your loins you said that like you're from New York or something. Gird up your loins there kid. Look you got to get you got to get with it. Look, I don't want any laziness to idleness.

Look look here. Look here Tony lazy buns like Tony two times. Get through the first 20 minutes because some of the stuff may be unfamiliar. So it's like a different language in terms of like they have its definitions those sorts of thing get through it.

Get through it because you need this you need it desperately. Well, it's funny. I.

The reason that this conversation came up and Andrew I haven't even had this conversation with you is.

We haven't we haven't brought him in yet, by the way. Oh Andrew. Welcome. I am.

Introductions, thank you. Love you guys, too. And you guys are truly remarkable. It's a privilege to be your friend and to labor with you. So go ahead Luke, whatever you were gonna say.

You've been it's just you're part of the family. So I didn't think about. You've been on here so much recently, too. It's just you're just part of the gang, but it's grand. So James White dr. White pastor James.

He has been. I don't know if you've been following him lately, but he's been doing a lot on narcissism and manichaeism and he's like Delved deep into that tunnel and so he's every day. You know finding new information and he's all excited about that and I so I said hey.

We got to get you and Andrew together to film something on narcissism. Because I know I've heard you especially I would say a lot in the last year and a half to two years I've heard you and Joe talk a lot about Narcissism and how it's affecting modern Theology and stuff.

So anyways, that's how that conversation came together to begin with as I was like, hey listen to this. We got to have you guys do something to do something. I'm proposing that we would definitely encourage that.

I think it'd be very beneficial. Yes, we'll make sure trying to make that happen. So Before we get into it because it is quarantine Andrew has been putting up a lot of links and helpful Commentary over the last month in terms of quarantine and righteousness justice love for neighbor Related things and so I just thought I'd do it because I mean everyone's in quarantine good to sort of have a you know Current event update for the future.

So let me did I did I seriously lose it? No, I lose it. Uh, I think I did. Why did it? Oh, no, here it is. Okay. Good. All right good. Sorry about that. I don't even know why that just did that to me.

Yeah blame kovat. All right. So, um, some of you guys may have heard that ran Paul. Dr. Ran Paul ran Paul. No, he was a doctor. By the way, I saw that. Yeah, he's Ron Paul's Ron Paul's son ran Paul Recently spoke on the Senate floor after he recovered from coronavirus.

So ran Paul Is a senator who had coronavirus and he's recovered now looks good, too. He's got a beard going on and I have said I just said to dr Sandlin before the show started here guys, if I see one politician with a fresh haircut, I'm I'm throwing something.

It's I I cannot get a haircut right now. Carmen looks like a wildebeest. He's I call him Wolfman Jack the other day. Yeah, and he's like I need a haircut. I'm like the hard part too is once that it opens up for haircuts.

Getting in line for a haircut. It's gonna be really hard because everyone needs a haircut. Yeah, if I see one politician with a haircut I'm throwing something one one of you guys who shut everything down if you get a fresh haircut.

I'm that I'm not at least a good haircut because it's possible that they you know. If they have like a hack job going on that's like a bowl cut. Yeah, they just put like a Tupperware bowl and in a bowl cut then that's what I expect.

That's what I want.

I have seen a couple wives for wives that are friends on Facebook who had decided to go ahead and give their husband a haircut.

And they should not have with the flow. Remember the flow be a flow be every morning.

I woke up before school and the flow be commercial was on. I was like maybe maybe.

Check the stock.

So Rand Paul's got a beard going on. He's on the Senate floor. He recovered from coronavirus and I just this is nine minutes long. I'm not playing the whole thing. I might just play a couple minutes here and then let's have a quick discussion.

They go right into Gnosticism. And let's go ahead and play this right now. Rand Paul Senate floor. Dropping a quote nuke from the Senate floor. That's what the title of the video is.

Not all the money in China will save us from ourselves. Our only hope of rescuing this great country is to reopen the economy. If you print up billions of dollars and give it to people. They're unlikely to spend it until you end the quarantine.

The good news though is that the scientific community finally has facts instead of conjecture. The models that use 3 .4 mortality were fortunately very wrong. Random samples now of thousands of people have now been tested for antibodies or immunity to coronavirus.

Two large randomized studies in California shows similar results. The number of people who have already developed antibodies to the coronavirus is 25 to 50 times higher than the number that is being reported as infected.

This is great news. This study means that the mortality rate may well be 25 to 50 times less deadly than previously thought. The virus is still dangerous and we shouldn't ignore the risks, but we should put those risks in perspective.

These randomized tests indicate that instead of a 3 .4 percent mortality that the rate could be As much as only a tenth of a percent or two-tenths of one percent. We now have solid scientific evidence from randomized studies that we can manage this disease without continuing the draconian lockdown of the economy.

The quote I thought I'd play that because it's you're hearing from somebody who is a Politician but also he had the virus and He thinks we should open the economy back up because we're destroying the world and I think he is right and I think he has something to say there when he talks about the fact that we now know about the virus more than we knew initially, obviously and The mortality rate is gonna be much much lower than we had initially thought and here's the point.

We don't close down the world economy and plunge people into the Great Depression and poverty. For these kinds of communicable diseases that we deal with every year people die. It's a fallen world. We need to hold to Christian presuppositions.

This is a fallen world people die. So we have to figure out how do we work in light of a fallen world? With biblical principles and wisdom when you face a communicable disease in a pandemic like this.

Is this black plague of the black death? No, is this something where we need to destroy the entire world and quarantine preemptively? All of the healthy no, and Look, you can't argue with the numbers.

Can't argue with the numbers coming out of a mouth of a person who had coronavirus and is now recovered. I think that says something. So dr. Sandlin just like to get some opening comments from you. I know you've been talking a lot about this lately on your pages and platforms.

So go for it.

Yeah, I agree with that a great statement. I'd heard parts of it from Rand Paul, I won't mention as much the health issues. But what's really clear is how that when any crisis or alleged crisis comes up like this the default in most people's minds.

Certainly the elite is statism. Immediately the answer is what can the government do now a Christian response? Committed to Christians committed to sphere sovereignty. That is that their various fears the family church and state is to say what should each institution do?

What should families do to address this? What should businesses be doing to address this? What should the church be doing to address this but no because we bought into statism. That is the great god of Western civilization as the state.

Whenever there is a crisis a real one or a perceived one. The first question is the government immediately has to get involved. Well, tragically we have seen now what has happened we have had sadly was at 45 46 47 ,000 that have either died by or with those aren't the same thing Kovat 19 the vast majority, of course being the elderly.

But we've had millions and millions. I think the numbers today indicate is it I think Luke you might have is a 24-million now or out of work. We definitely are. And as you guys have pointed out it is not loving your neighbor to support policies that are destroying people's livelihoods and lives.

That really is sinful. So don't say I'm loving my neighbor by social distancing and not going outside my house. Actually, you're not loving your neighbor by supporting that you're harming your neighbor.

So this really has demonstrated statism and as an article I pointed out recently indicated. There are there is a demonic element behind this and I don't support a lot of the wild Charismatic and Pentecostal notion that everything that health of demonic activity.

That's certainly not what the Bible teaches. But it does teach that there are principalities and powers and these principalities and powers like to common commandeer the state because it has a monopoly on violence and Sadly, that's what's happened.

I believe in this case and therefore the state is crushing. Remember this Satan loves to destroy. He loves to destroy. Jesus Christ said I came to have life. Give life and that the people might have life and have it more abundantly.

But Satan comes the evil one comes to kill the thief to steal and kill and destroy and that's exactly think about this virus. Just it's stolen income for people. It's killed and it's destroyed not just the virus itself.

But also the politicians commandeered by Satan has destroyed so much. And that's why Christians have to stand up and oppose it with every fiber of their being.

It was interesting last night. I'll make a final comment here and Luke if you want to jump in. I. I did you see the thing I shared from AOC last night? I.

Think so remind me.

It was from vice. It's on my personal page. There's a quote. I saw yeah, basically it was she mocked the idea that President Trump was saying We need to liberate people so they can go back to work. She was like, it's he's the only person that would say like going back to work is liberation.

That's because she has a communist ideology and she's a leftist and she does not have biblical worldview about About labor about work about creativity about production. And so for her her worldview is it's what's driving her Political moves and you see it right now open the country back up liberate people so they can get back to work and be Productive.

She's like only this president would say that being liberated is being able to work. It's like yeah.

Here's the quote. I saw I just found it actually got from someone else, but she said When we have this discussion about going back or reopening, I think a lot of people should just say no. We're not going back to that.

We're not going back to 70-hour weeks just so we can put food on the table and not even feel any semblance of Security in our lives. And there you go.

Yeah, which shows you the basics. He has not just a welfare mentality but a welfare ideology. Essentially, we need people at home doing nothing and the government providing for them. Did you say? Ideology she holds so it's not just for coronavirus.

So this is this was just an occasion for her to lay out a new normal. And that's what. Sadly what she said I believe a number of other politicians guys believe is that she was quote bold enough to stand up and say so publicly.

Oh, yeah, actually, it's it's it's right here. Let's go ahead and play right here. This is we're talking about it and be beneficial to hear it. This is the clip. AOC on vice.

There's a lot that we could be doing right now, but ultimately The I think when we talk about this idea of reopening society You know only in America does the president when the president tweets about liberation does he mean go back to work when we?

You know have this discussion about going going back or reopening. I think a lot of people should just say no, we're not going back to that. We're not going back to working 70 hour weeks just so that we could put food on the table and not even Feel any sort of semblance of security in our lives.

Give me a break.

Well guys the irony of that is she would not like to live in a world in which people actually lived like that. Right, she has all of the benefits of a world in which people are liberated to work as long as they want within reason.

So she gets fruit from that. She has her nice. Her nice iPhone or her smartphone and all of her nice clothes. Well, she has those because people work hard. So basically, it's a hypocritical ideology. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I agree.

And here's look here the reason I brought it up. I mean why talk about that right now? Well, I brought it up because we have to understand that like all of these decisions. They don't exist in a vacuum.

The decisions that people are making as politicians the votes that they're you know that they're producing they come from Presuppositions they come from a world they come from a worldview and so you'll see that initially for them.

It's the virus the virus the virus, but now that the numbers come out about the virus, of course, it's deadly of course is serious, but we deal with these things all the time and we don't destroy the world and now the numbers are coming Out and people are realizing.

Oh, we're gonna have to be consistent here. If I say we need to destroy the world now I have to say that again next December for all the other diseases and communicable viruses We're dealing with and I don't think I'm gonna do that.

So then all of a sudden now you start to see these people Harris are they're showing their cards. All right, this is a poker game. They're showing their cards and you see what's really on them and they're showing you.

This is what I've really got the Joker card. Is that what she's exactly this is what I really got. It's not about the virus. It's that I'm I'm basically a communist and That's this is my worldview. Is that I don't believe in productivity and work and labor.

I don't believe in private property. I think the government should own you from cradle to grave and I think that this should all be Community-owned stuff and everyone should just court sort of get like a standard kind of paycheck.

Everyone's sort of equal and you know work, you know, what whatever is that, you know? And should people really be working and having late? I mean for me, I I see the idea of being freed right now to work as a glorious God honoring thing and she because of her worldview says only in America with a president tweet that Liberation is being able to be productive and work.

Oh as opposed to sitting on your butt and doing nothing and starving what that's right Jeff.

And I would say not just God honoring but it's a requirement of God's law. Yeah, I mean people it is a privilege. But it's also and the Bible says if one doesn't work you should need that's right. Exceptions like old age and illness and so on.

So to keep people from working is to keep them from obeying God's law. We need to say it that starkly.

Yeah, and the problem is someone like her in our culture today. Is that she's a woman and she's pretty and some people go. Oh, maybe I should listen to her. No, no, what she's saying is dumb and. And and and also you have to see having a woman in a leadership position like that trying to to Legislate and make decisions.

You're gonna have something that you don't want to have in that kind of position and you're gonna have that motherly God-given Woman instinct to care for and to nurture and all that that's a gift from God.

That is a glorious gift from God, but it belongs in the home. It belongs in the home. It doesn't belong on the Senate floor or in Congress trying to nurture all of society. Because what people need to do is they need to work.

They need to be productive. They need to produce and I love what Andrew said there. She's sitting there, you know with this amazing technology. Sending her out across the planet at a moment's notice and she's wearing the nice clothes in a nice house.

And it's like what gave you that. Oh the biblical worldview in capitalism. Yeah, Momo.

Okay, Maya my girls watch a cartoon Barbie life in the dream house all the time and I swear she's a character on that. That's where she is from like the Barbie show. So by the way, I know I've blown my nose ten times on the show.

I'm having a massive allergy attack right now because Arizona right now is in bloom and so as my nose. It's full bloom. It is bad. Arizona has got the worst allergens. Imagine it's pretty though. It is beautiful.

But man, it hurts man when it gets to like Mar end of March April it hurts. It hurts so bad. It's just bad. It's just treacherous.

I think we need an allergy lockdown. We can't come out until all of the bloom goes away. Oh, that's good.

Well, let's be consistent, right? A lot of people are damaged by this, right? All right. So let's get right into it guys. Thank you all for hanging in there for that discussion. We do think it's important.

Welcome everybody who's jumping into the feed right now. So we're talking to dr. Sandlin and we I look I titled the thing engaging Christian Gnosticism now, by the way. Those are two words that should not be together.

Engaging Christian Gnosticism those don't belong together my friends and so you might be asking the question Why do I care about this brothers and sisters? Please hear me on this. You need to care about this.

Oh boy is an importance and oh man is a destructive. I think James said last week on his show He said that's a Gnosticism is the most demonic and satanic thing. He's ever studied. Yeah. Because it knows the Bible.

Yeah, and it purposefully tries to distort it. Yes, and you need to understand. Look, I'll be willing to wage or something right now. I'm not a gambling man, but let's just play a game for a second. I'm I'm willing to bet right now that probably the vast majority of people watching right now in our feed right now live.

You've got some Gnosticism in you you do. It's there and I hope not. I really I'm rooting for you, but I hope not but you need to hear it. So we're gonna talk about that. Are we Christian Gnostics? Is that how we're approaching the world and life and the future and so dr. Sandlin?

I'm gonna hand it over to you brother. We need to know what is Gnosticism and why should I care?

Good question. So Gnosticism is the oldest and most dangerous and most persistent heresy in the church. You even I think you mentioned this earlier Jeff even see it in some of John's statements the beginnings of it and some of John's Statements Gnosticism is basically the idea that the creation the physical world is evil.

And if we're going to say Christian Gnosticism, you're right. They shouldn't be put together. But sadly in many people's minds, they are if the Jesus Christ came to deliver us from the physical world Gnosticism is a profound heresy and I'll mention just quickly their different Views of Gnostic origins, but it's basically that a lower God called the demi-urge.

Not the true God who's really sort of an impersonal principle. Not the true God of the Bible this lower God was deceived and created the physical world. Which was inherently evil and that somehow another and slightly higher God Female God in many of the tellings put little souls dropped a little sort of non-material souls in Some humans and the goal is for those souls to escape from the body.

The idea basically is that the human body in this part is like a shell and the real fruit the nut we might say is on the inside and Like Plato of old the real idea of life like Socrates would have said the goal of life is to die.

Because then what happens is just very bad evil. Corrupt body that we have goes away forever and the soul inside sort of flies up into the heavenlies and it's forever liberated from the body. Now I'll tell you right now.

Whatever that is. That's not even close to Christian Gnostics also believe by the way and I neglected to mention this that the God of the Old Testament is not the God of the New Testament. Oh, by the way, is any of this sounding familiar?

Yeah, the God of the Old Testament is a God of law. He's a God of anger. He's a God of cruelty. He's a God of genocide. He's a God of oppression, but the true God Sent Jesus Christ and not in an actual body.

He was Jesus. You see actually was a deceiver. He had what looked like a body but wasn't really a body couldn't have been because then he would have been evil. But Jesus goal was basically to send to convey a special form of secret knowledge that's where we get the word Gnostic sort of a secret knowledge to a few people to understand that the material world is evil and By changing their minds and giving them the secret handshake as it were the secret knowledge.

They can eventually get rid of the body and can fly up into the heavenlies and everything else will go off Into oblivion now that in short order is what ancient Gnosticism was but it is continued it has been persistent in the history of the church and sadly there are whole theological systems today and I'm going to mention one.

Am I allowed online to mention a false? Yes, but prominent. Okay, it starts with a D and It ends with an M and it's kind of a long word Dispensationalism and there are many good people involved in it many Bible believing people involved in it many sincere some of them my friends.

Yet nonetheless, there are Gnostic elements in this which says that the Old Testament is essentially about Israel because anybody that reads the Old Testament guys can actually see it. It's a very earthy book.

I mean a lot of earthy stuff is going on I mean land promises and biblical laws covering sanitation and Like we would say even today coronavirus staying away from it and so on that's the Old Testament, but the New Testament they say because Paul speaks of Sitting in the heavenlies.

They understand they misunderstand the biblical term of that meaning of heaven by the way with which we can get to later, but the point is that the New Testament is basically on a plane higher than the physical and Essentially Jesus came to get us away from the Old Testament.

Sadly there are a number of dispensationalist Basically in a in its most crass forms that tend to lean that way. They're not total Gnostics but they have Gnostic elements now the biblical view is that the physical body and the love for good food and sex within marriage and Enjoying creation is a wonderful good and holy and righteous thing.

That's right.

The only problems in this world and this is really key to understand guys and all your listeners. The only problem in this world at all is a result of sin. The problem with this world is not creation.

Not the amazing how some people say well if I just think if I spend too much time in creation That will lead me away from God. No it can because of your sin.

Yeah.

But the Bible said the heavens declared the glory of God and the firmament shows his handiwork and we see God even among the Animals and how God himself causes them to do what they do. So if we have a right contemplation of creation It will lead us toward God toward God.

And not away from God but sadly for many people. They think that the goal is and this is I think Jeff you mentioned this earlier before we went on the air and I really want to bring it to this and then I'll be quiet.

Let you guys talk. Really? It comes down to a theology of godly engagement and Dominion which the Bible teaches versus enough a theology of escape. And essentially the Christian life and salvation is about escape.

Our goal is basically to trust in Christ and sort of get through this life. And oh, I have this terrible body and this body is always leading me to lust and addiction and all these sorts of things. But thank God he's going to deliver me from the body and then I'll be pure spirit and I'll go up to heaven and all of those that have trusted Christ we will go up and live up in heaven and maybe we'll be floating around in the clouds and have halos and so on and We'll live forever and all of this terrible physical creation will be done with forever now.

I'm exaggerating but only a little yes, that is a theology of escape. The biblical theology is very earthy. It's one of Dominion that our responsibilities to exercise benevolent gospel based Dominion in the earth getting the gospel to the world having people trusting Christ reorienting their lives and their families.

Church every area of life including the state according to God's standards. Pushing toward that time when the entire earth will be truly liberated and that doesn't mean from the physical the Bible says in the book of Revelation that the that God himself and heaven will be joined to earth in The Bible the new heavens and the new earth of the resurrected heavens and the resurrected earth.