June 8, 2018 Show with Andreas and Margaret Köstenberger on “Equipping for Life: A Guide for New, Aspiring & Struggling Parents”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming and iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Friday on this eighth day of June 2018 and I'm delighted to have as returning guests to iron sharpens iron radio Dr. Andreas and dr. Margaret Kostenberger.

Dr. Andreas Kostenberger is founder of biblical foundations and senior research professor at New Testament and biblical of New Testament and biblical theology at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina and his wife.

Dr Margaret Kostenberger is associate professor and director of women's programs and mentoring at Shepherds Theological Seminary in Cary, North Carolina. And today both of them are going to be addressing their new book Equipping for life a guide for new aspiring and struggling parents and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio Dr. Andreas and dr. Margaret Kostenberger.

Great to be with you again. Thanks so much for having us. It's my pleasure and greetings Margaret.

Thank you so much and in studio with me is my co-host Charlie Liebert. Charlie Liebert Who is not only a former colleague of Ken Ham at answers in Genesis But he's also the founder of six day creation calm and author of a new book himself.

My Christian children's education what should I do a Christians educate a Christian educators analysis and Advice. And it's my honor and privilege to have you in studio as a co-host. Once again, Charlie Liebert.

Thank You Charlie. And for some reason you're not can. I don't know why you're not connected Charlie but we'll have to figure it out eventually. And If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And Charlie if you could quit fiddling around you're making me go deaf here. Okay, and well first of all Let's have the costenberg errs tell our listeners something about the the two different seminaries where they are on the faculty.

Andreas let's start with you. Tell us something about Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, North Carolina.

Absolutely, I'd be glad to Teaching at Southeastern for 22 years and For 12 of those I directed the PhD program as well. Last sir, and I've actually just accepted a call to Midwestern Bapst Theological Seminary, which is a sister Seminary in Kansas City, and so I will be transitioning Starting there in the fall.

Oh.

Great. And tell us also something about biblical foundations the ministry that you founded.

Yes, well. About 15 years ago, I wrote a book God marriage and family and That book teaching on marriage and the family Was increasingly being marginalized in our culture sadly the years after that. You know certainly sure and so issues related to marriage and the family and in many ways.

The book we're talking about today a new parenting book that concern that Conversation to to equipping the next generation to live by the biblical teaching on God's design for man and woman.

Great. And Margaret. Dr. Margaret costenberger tell us something about the Shepherds Theological Seminary in Cary, North Carolina. Where you are the associate professor and director of women's programs and mentoring?

Okay. Well, I actually Have just been doing that for about a year and as my husband's transitioning, I will also be transitioning with him. So I'm not sure, you know exactly what my arrangements only in the future.

But for this past year, I have been the director of women's programs and mentoring there and Basically, what I'm doing is equipping women teaching women on in the area of mentoring and ministry to women in the church.

Great and Charlie Liebert, you are our co-host today. But since you have this book that we actually are going to be God willing interviewing you on in some time in the near future. Yes, sir with your son-in-law who's on the faculty at the Christian School of Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania where I happen to be a member and also we're trying to get Gareth Schuth who's the principal the new headmaster headmaster of the school on by the way.

Did you have you found out if when they can be on? No, I haven't got. No. All right. Well, can you let us know something about your book my Christian children's education? What should I do?

Yes, I've been involved in Christian education for quite a long time. I was involved in founding a classical school in Greensboro, North Carolina where I used to live and During that time. I've seen the decline of public education.

I published a short Treatise in the 1980s on Reagan's nation at risk. But I've updated that basically and shown the first part of the book deals with the decline of public education the movement from a Judeo-Christian foundation to a humanist foundation and how that impacts all the teaching and.

The second part of the book is what options do Christian parents have and which ones would be the best ones for them to use? So I go through public education private education private Christian schools classical schools all the different options home school and and give them Recommendations as to what I think the best ones are to maintain a Christian focus for in the child's education.

Great. Well, we look forward to having you as our guest at some point soon. And let's try to get that arranged with your son-in-law and with Garris Schuth over at the Christian Academy. Yes, sir. We'll work on that as soon as we can.

Why This Parenting Book Was Needed

But now we are going to be focusing our attention on equipping for life. A guide for new aspiring struggling parents. Let's start with Andreas this time Andreas if you could. Let us know with all the many the dozens and dozens and dozens of not only books on Parenting but even Christian books on parenting that are available some better than others.

Why did you and Margaret feel a need to? Fill a void that was obviously left there by all these other books. That that you needed to include something else and into print that would be helping.

Parents. Great question. And you know, I think one is that we're just at a stage of life now we're you know, we have four children ages 16 to 25 and so, you know only one left in in the in the house and.

So, you know where those down hopefully and avoid some of them. And of course about marriage if they're planning to have a family. We've seen that in many cases young people no longer know what the Bible teaches on Marriage and the family so some more scholarly reflective.

It's theologically grounded and it's also missionally oriented to each one of them. And Margaret.

You.

Complementarianism, Egalitarianism, and the Role of Women

Two are involved in previous publications that Take a very controversial position. In fact, it shouldn't be controversial at all Because of the fact that it's a very biblical position I mean obviously people disagree whether it's biblical, but I think it's it's hardly debatable that it's biblical and that is the the position of Complementarianism with gender roles, but perhaps you could even further define that and then my question in regard to this current book is does that particular view of Gender roles in the scriptures.

Does that play a role in equipping for life? But but first of all, let us know let a list know who may be unfamiliar with the term the terms I should say plural complementarian and egalitarian.

Right, right. Okay. Well, um, yes, we we wrote the book together God's designed for man a woman and in that book that does kind of reflect our view on What the scripture teaches which we believe is a complementary relationship between the man and the woman.

We see that God has Designed man to be the leader in the relationship and the woman is to be a helper and support. In that as well the primary nurture of the children and you know based in the home centric, you know Centering herself in the home.

And so that would be different than egalitarianism.

That.

There's equal between the man and the woman so there we would say equal and worth but different in role. Yes, and I definitely. Plant this book on parenting. So the the parenting book on equipping for life.

Which comes out of the base of the complementarian view. Now, you just said something interesting in your description of Complementarianism in regard to the in regard to the woman's role. Some might say wait a minute.

She's talking about the the primary role of women is to be Home taking care of the home and to be nurturers of children. And yet she is a seminary professor. How does this coincide?

Well, that's a good question, I definitely do think that you know women may have specific interests or callings or you know leading or Created in a certain way with a certain bent by the Lord in terms of their skill.

And so these are things that sometimes are developed before marriage. To some degree that are women are trained in before marriage and then they bring them into the home and into the family into the marriage and It's something that could be of benefit to the family and to the church and to and of course.

When children grow older, there's a lot more freedom for women to use their gifts even outside of the home to a greater extent.

Exactly. So like the problem 31 woman would be someone You know, I would look to to see that she is very industrious and at appropriate times in her life has has you know exercised You know her skills and gifts and contributed to the home.

Now and One more thing about that. Would and of course Andreas after Margaret answers you could chime in Do you think that one of the most destructive things? That is happening and has been happening for decades.

Actually. It's not really a new thing, but it's it's been going on for decades, especially probably starting in the mid to late 60s but where you have women having babysitters or if you're more wealthy nannies Or or someone in in the home taking care of the younger children while the women are out in the work field and I don't want to be sounding as if I am a Pharisee or being condemnatory against all women who are working or even women who use babysitters or Use their own parents to take care of kids because I know that there are certain circumstances in the home where it is Absolutely vital that the woman has to earn a living as well financially to help Provide for the family, but do you think that this is a has been a very damaging thing to the the makeup of the family?

So you're addressing me on that first, right? I would say that. Yeah, that would be feminism that you're talking about and its impact on society has definitely been a part of and central to the influence on women.

Abandoning their God-given design and role in the home or at least partially compromising at least in some way and yeah, I would say that that is a problem and The woman the woman is you know, she if she Relegates her to another person.

I believe that that is Stepping away from the ideal that God would have for her and for her children and for her husband. You know the role that she would have so I would say that that would be. Potentially damaging, you know both for her and her child and and her family and even the church at large the mission of God in.

Some way, but Andreas, do you want to pick up?

Well, I think you know Margaret has been a great example to me of someone who is very intelligent and who has a you know doctor of theology. We met in seminary and so, you know I remember her taking courses in hermeneutics and apologetics and systematic theology.

And I love the fact that I could could discuss theology With her and even as parents were able to to hammer out our convictions together. He so she could use it later. You know, that's why she she had gotten pretty far in her in her studies.

But after four years our youngest was bought her degrees. So she she completed her degree in eight years not because she couldn't have done it You know much more quickly, but because family came first.

And I think in our book, you know we talk about that parenting in many ways is a relationship and As a result parents need children, of course. Just like God created us to live and Who are not at extent I think often?

Neglecting as as parents to guide their children during the teenage years.

You know, it just struck me Hollywood obviously tends to be liberal and even ultra liberal and yet the movies that they themselves produce that involve a nanny raising children that they very often most often will depict the situation as the mother being somewhat selfish and perhaps being overly focused on earning money and neglecting the nurture and care and compassionate end of the raising of children.

And and you have the children developing these Attitudes towards their nannies as being their their their parents or their mother. Isn't this kind of an interesting thing where you have liberal Hollywood over and over and again again Producing this kind of a storyline in movies.

And yet they they also. Many of these actors and actresses in Hollywood would be would be horrified by what we're talking about.

Right, right. Yeah.

Culture for sure. Yeah, you know parenting often is not very glamorous As we know and it involves a lot of sacrifice. It's You know, not only is it very costly financially, you know, so Calls on parents sometimes to put self-interest You know behind and I know that's not always a But it is a wonderful thing.

The Bible says that children are a gift from the Lord their reward from him. And so I think We want to to just think of it even as a long-term investment. There's just so many, you know, it's a lot of work but there's also so many joys and rewards that come especially once you've raised your children well, and they are Turning out to be You know loving the Lord sir being a parent.

So it's right. Yeah.

Realistic, Relational, and Responsible Parenting

Well, I'd like you to start getting involved in the contents of the book itself. Some of the ways that you've structured the book. This is one of those rare circumstances where we Jumped on this open slot that we had today to get you both on the program before I even had a chance to get the Book in my hand, right?

So this is one of those rare opportunities that I can't even glance through the book. But so if you could tell us how this book is laid out and what you find to be the the primary things That you are trying to convey to parents that may be overlooked subjects or at least may be overlooked explanations the way that you have Sought to explain them in other works.

Okay, yes, so I'll get started and Andres can probably fill in for me, but The way we have organized the book and we've entitled them relationship and Realism realistic parenting relational parenting and responsible parenting.

So those are the three R's of parenting which we Define and I can tell you a little bit about maybe the first. Why. Why do we think this area is important to discuss? Well, a lot of times we see that parents are maybe unrealistic in their projections of what parenting would look like and we think it would be helpful to pay attention to themselves and realize what strength to the parenting task and Also to look at the child and realize that the child is not a perfect but that you're going to be dealing with a sinful person.

And what does that mean for Beginning to even take care of an infant. And on through life. And then we also focus on and the third chapter The idea of parenting in an imperfect world. So we have a world that is filled with you know, you know a whole hope.

Yeah, I think that's a great way to put it the idea that young couples often sit and often. You know, they get disillusioned and then struggle and and you know fatigue sets in and then and maybe the husband is not as supportive and so forth.

So I think especially writing to young couples, we wanted to so that maybe the. The shock is not as great after the initial, you know enthusiasm. You know decorating the room and then in the first few days, you know.

So not to dampen any enthusiasm in the joy of you know, giving birth to a child and that kind of thing. But I think this is something we feel like would be helpful. For young couples to just just enter into this phase of life with with a measure of realism.

Yeah, then you know that I needed to accomplish and then you know. You just try to be successful and you check all the boxes. But I learned a lot from my wife in that regard the idea that parenting is a relationship.

And you know, I just can't tell you how many times she would spend hours in the evening into the you know late night talking with me one of our teenage children. Or you know, the the idea of Asking them probing questions a whole series of questions when they come home from from some event, you know.

Like where were you and who else was there? And who were you sitting besides it? And and what did you talk about and and so forth? So it's just a wonderful to think of this being a relationship that is growing that.

You know, sometimes our children need help. They need need Need advice talking about.

Taking your Parenting. Now you think well responsible Parents out there and we say well probably yes. So what does it mean to be a responsible parent? Well, let's take the parenting task. Seriously is what we're thinking and we're saying one of the first things we want to do is to help our child grow in character.

That's that's being a responsible parent. And in order to do that we think that It's important to be present. So in other words not delegating someone else. That's right.

Not the parenting, you know to a teacher or a coach or a youth leader. Even though they can be allowed and and we we can't think I am when they probably need as most.

Avoiding the Approach to parenting that is laissez-faire kind of just leaving it to hands off. I mean it doesn't take a village. Well, it definitely does take some help from the community of the body of Christ, right.

You just can't replace the parents. Amen. Well, we're going to our first station break and If anybody would like to join us on the air We already have a quite a number of people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

So, please be patient with us. But if anybody would like to get in line and join them with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen a gmail .com. Please give us your first name.

Your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and please only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back.

After these messages. With Andreas and Margaret Kastenberger, I am Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world magazine My trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

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Everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio, and we are now returning to our discussion with dr. Andreas and Margaret Kastenberger who are both seminary professors and who are both authors of the new book equipping for life a Guide for new aspiring and struggling parents published by a Christian focus who is always reliable as one of the most theologically sound biblically faithful Publishing houses out there along with of course one of my biggest sponsors solid ground Christian books whose ads that you just heard.

But before I return to our discussion, I just have to share with you some very excellent news that I just got while I was During the commercial break. We just heard word from Alistair Beggs a secretary That he God willing is going to be returning as our guest.

It's oh, it's almost eight years to the day that we've had Alistair on iron sharpens iron radio and Alistair has agreed to come back on on Monday the 9th of July. So, I don't know yet what we're going to be talking about but I am just thrilled that Alistair is finally coming back.

He has had such a busy schedule for quite a long time and was cutting back on a lot of outside media involvement, but It appears that he enjoyed himself the last time he was with us. So I'm looking forward to his return.

So mark your calendars for Monday July 9th For the return of Alistair Begg on iron sharpens iron radio and we'll keep you updated as to the topic and so on. But today we are discussing as I just mentioned earlier with our guests.

Dr. Andreas and dr. Margaret Kostenberger equipping for life a guide for new aspiring struggling parents and Before we go to any of our listener questions my co-host Charlie Liebert who is the founder of six day creation calm and a former colleague of Ken Ham over at answers in Genesis And also author of his own book my Christian children's education.

What should I do? You had a comment that you wanted to share about?

Something that the Kostenberger said before the break. Yeah, I talked talking about how Parents interact with the children. One of the things. I have a friend that Your microphone needs to be put closer to your face.

I have a I have a friend that that had a habit of Watching the news by himself and videotaping it. This is the days of videotape and he would take one particular story and mark the time and then when the children had dinner after they Finished they'd come into the living room and watch that story and then talk about how that interface with Christian worldview.

The point of this simply is that about ten years later one of the adult children came back to him and said dad Remember that discussion we had on abortion and he said yeah. Well now I understand the value of human life and it really made an impact in one of my friends.

So parents interacting with children to me is a key issue here. Not just not just on Friendliness and parenting but on the issues of worldview.

Right.

Yeah, that's so true. You know. We subscribe to world magazine and our 16 year old devours it when he gets it and then we can talk about some of the Stories in there and so I totally agree. It's just so vital to as part of equipping our children for life to help them.

You know process what's going on in the culture and and to be among the first to you know for them to bounce off ideas and they're looking for for affirmation or for guidance. Now that my my son has a Felony sometimes would text me and say that this is what just hurt.

Or you know, what how should I think you should thinking about this, right? That's great. Well, I.

Obviously one of the reasons that you Need to have new work like yours Contemporary books coming into availability For parenting is because of the radical changes that are taking place in our society so fast.

That are mind-boggling. That are mind boggling. Mind boggling Lee evil. Breathtakingly grotesque, I mean when we when you consider that to me it's mind-blowing when you consider the fact that Bill and Hillary Clinton were opposed to same-sex marriage.

Barack Obama When he first ran for president and was elected was opposed to same-sex marriage now. If you were to make your opinion on that public that you were opposed to same-sex marriage. You could actually lose a job.

You could you could lose a career. I mean all kinds of horrible things could happen to you. I mean, it's just it is mind-boggling to me how fast it's like a snowball rolling down a Mount Everest and it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger and at a rate that we can't even keep up with.

And it's just it's just mind-boggling as I said quite a bit, you know, because we find for for parents today. Helping their children to be responsible in their use of cell phones and technology and social media is one of the.

And there's so much out there that is Content that we wouldn't want our children to be interacting with engaging with so we really do need to decide how you're going to handle that and Basically, you know, we we have chosen to primarily School at home and in order to how we would handle things and it also has given us some opportunities timing about And exposing children to these technological and something that we've really Appreciated.

Moments to summarize that I mean you could easily as you know, have a whole seminar on Parenting and then teaching our children how to use social media responsible where you could spend several hours and have a Q &A on exactly.

You know how to best do that, but. But you're exactly right Chris. It's just such a huge issue that that you wouldn't have found that in a parenting book maybe 10 or 15 years ago. But but today I couldn't even really imagine writing a parenting book without addressing it fairly extensively.

Yeah.

I mean, you're gonna have children even very young children in fact, I just had The son of one of my closest friends the son of the woman that led me to Christ back in the 80s Who has also become a good friend of mine.

He is not a born-again believer. He has three children of his own and His children are starting to ask questions about the cartoons that they're watching that have same-sex couples parenting children in them and The children of today and I can't even imagine what's gonna be going on in a few years, but the children of today When they are going out there into the world They very often are going to be Mocked or silenced either by their friends or even by their teachers if they're going to a public school.

If they say anything in objection or even questioning. As if they had never even heard of the concept of why does this person have two mommies or daddies? That doesn't seem right to me. That's weird or something and they will be told that they are Totally wrong in there they're they're thinking and that their parents are wrong.

I mean, it's just a totally different society. It's just amazing to me.

They give you one little anecdote, you know from all experience when I was helping my son fill in his college application a couple years ago. One of the first questions was about gender and they were like, I think exit me and says that male, right?

Because they're all those we have five years taking a nosedive in terms of Gender confusion and and really a You know a revolution against the design for men and women something as simple as that God made.

Humanity male and female is now highly debated and disputed and controversial. I mean, I think few of us would have predicted that the moral decline would accelerate so at such a rapid pace.

Yeah, before I go to a listener question Have you heard from any feminists who are upset about the fact that These men who I mean, obviously there are lesbians Marrying each other now, too. But I can't help.

I can't help but think that especially Feminists would some anyway would have a serious problem With met two men raising children Where there is no woman present in that household. No mother present. I can't help but think that to have the point of view that it is unimportant Unessential to have a woman's involvement in parenting.

It really seems to be Backfiring against the feminist movement in some way because How could they possibly sit still and think that that is? Appropriate now, obviously you're going to have a lot of feminists who have to in their minds Follow along with everything that's left-wing including homosexual activism, but I can't help but think that even in their hearts and minds They must be saying this is not right that these these children are being raised without a mother.

You know, you may know the society report and I was asked a few years ago to to actually look at feminist views of the family and you know listeners can can access that on my website biblical foundations org, but What I found is that feminists in many ways are just anti family period and so You know in many ways that they're actually dead set against Family as a human institution on that ideological commitment.

Probably in many cases they would Really not even care that much that family is dysfunctional and disintegrates simply an outmoded Institution that in many ways is a patriarchal instrument to keep women down.

Wow, yeah, so and and as long as they're not the ones being kept down by The mothering by the central role of the woman in the home really complain about what you're saying. I some would you know feminism is such a varied.

Right, it's not a monolithic group, but I understand that feminists don't like the idea of Women being enslaved to the role of homemaker. But what what I am what I was talking about was Total absence from the household.

I mean feminists know that when they come home from work That they they are an important Participant in the in the involvement with children and so on they So that they know that they eventually show up at the house And have something to do with the kids so that that's what.

Really what I was talking about not that they would be upset about the loss of a homemaker kind of a.

And I think you have put your finger on something important that that probably will need more research in the future. There's a lot of things that maybe so far. We didn't even think about that much but but now revolution engines will will Rear their ugly heads and I think in the book we touched on it briefly, you know.

The the scourge of fatherlessness in American society and the absence of fathers, you know. Abandoning their their Wives and children their families, but there's much less study done on motherlessness.

You know I tried to research that and and Margaret as well and we found just a little bit here and there because often maybe it's not As extreme you don't have mothers abandoning their family. It's more like you might neglect their family or.

But you're talking about a new form of motherlessness, right. In the case of gay homosexual marriages. Where literally there's no mother. Yeah, right.

And the reason why I didn't even bring up the outrage of men over the lack of Men and some of the lesbian relationships and in the household nurturing children and so on is because Liberals and leftists put the opinions of men on a far lower rung of importance.

Yeah, right.

But let's take some of our listener questions. Let's see here we have Mary in Cork, Ireland the Republic of Ireland and Mary let's see. I have to enlarge Mary's email and Mary asks. I am conscious of the scripture in Proverbs 25 17 Let your foot be seldom in your neighbor's house Lest he have his fill of you and hate you and so I don't want to include intrude.

Oh. Wait a minute. I think this might be something that's completely different than a question for You too. Let's see here. It might be a question for me. Okay, yeah, this is. I'm sorry this was not a question for you to it was just a question about the radio program in General, so I apologize for that.