The Local Church

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Dwight and good afternoon welcome to the dividing line today we are talking about a very unpopular subject so unpopular
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I can almost predict right now we'll probably lose ourself one or two supporters in the process at least that's what's happened in the past for some strange reason it should not be that way but it unfortunately is and I'm referring to the subject of the church
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I am in the process of wrapping up finishing up I can see the light at the end of the tunnel writing a book entitled dangerous airwaves it is a refutation of herald campings new teaching on the nature of the church to the chapters initially was going to be one but I've divided into two now to the chapters deal with the teaching concerning the nature of the church and membership in the church
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I'd like to start off by reading a couple paragraphs from those know the book is not yet available but it will be as soon as possible
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Harold campings teachings about the church come at an inopportune time that is to say many are already prone to view the church as they do an automobile or a house an item up for sale something that is bought and sold the highest bidder in a day when the church defines itself not by its calling the holiness of her master the privilege and gravity of worship or the value and power of the precious precious message entrusted to her but by the nature of the audience she seeks to draw it is quite easy to convince the shoppers that there is a better show down the road even in solid churches there is a very troubling lack of zeal for the church that manifests itself in unwillingness to be committed to the ministry of service in the local church for many joining the church is a bothersome activity that is not really important to one's spiritual growth or safety and for many it is merely an option not a command church hopping is a popular pastime with many fellowships showing a frightening willingness to cater to such attitudes by putting on a show that is guaranteed to keep the crowds coming in the process the gospel is muted and moved to the back shelf if presented at all and in a previous chapter
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I had begun this way the Church of Jesus Christ a divinely instituted organization that is central to the purposes of God every follower of Christ is called to serve within her fellowship give his or her life for those who stand alongside in her membership revel in the blessings of God poured upon her from on high and seek to pass from this world into God's presence having promoted her work and standing on earth a man's attitude toward the church says much of his spiritual health and maturity the one who longs to be amongst
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God's people in worship in singing in proclamation in the celebration of baptism in the supper has in that longing a sign of grace in the work of the
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Holy Spirit for outside of religious hypocrites who do not last long where the word is faithfully preached the unregenerate man has no desire for these things and finds them to be utter foolishness do these words sound strange to you they should not the scriptures are filled with teaching on the nature purposes mission and perpetuity of the body of Christ the bride of Christ the
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Church of the Living God one must be purposely seeking to avoid exposure to the truths of the
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Bible to miss the repetitive references to Christ bride the church the teaching about her is often bound up with the very proclamation of the gospel for it has always been
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God's will that every person he calls into fellowship with his son is to take his or her place in the fellowship of that body for which he died that visible entity that proclaims his name and worships in spirit and in truth hence that is how two of the chapters in the new book begin with a proclamation of the truth concerning the church even though these may not be popular things
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I remember addressing this issue last year and receiving some very angry emails some people wrote to me and said how dare you say the things you said about the importance of being in the local church there are no good churches around me well there weren't very many good churches in the days of Jesus to but he still showed up in the synagogue and he still worshiped
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God and we'll get into some other issues in regards to what if you can't find a good church near you a little bit later on but I would like to invite you to take your
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Bibles today I'd like to look at some passages this is a subject but I think it's very very important and I'd like to begin with a passage that we have discussed many times in the past in the program primarily however in the context of Roman Catholicism and that is a passage very frequently misused by Roman Catholics in regards to the subject of the church and they are the words of Paul to Timothy in 1st
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Timothy 315 I often see for example Roman Catholics so they'll come into the room and they'll do something like when they exit
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I think we have one particular individual who when he exits his exit line is a quotation of 1st
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Timothy 315 understood in a Roman Catholic sense and I have often seen Roman Catholic apologists to simply quote the passage seemingly unaware of any type of interpretation of the words that would not be supportive of a
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Roman Catholic interpretation Roman Catholic ecclesiology but actually when
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Paul wrote to Timothy he said but in case I am delayed I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God which is the church of the living
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God the pillar and support of the truth now when we hear about the church as the pillar and support of the truth
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I am reminded very quickly of the story in surprised by truth of a person who was a member of an
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Orthodox Presbyterian Church who confessed to amazement when this particular individual encountered the words of Paul the shock that this person had that the
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Bible would describe the church as the pillar and support the truth the pillar and ground or foundation of the truth and of course
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I was shocked that anyone would be shocked anything that the Bible says especially someone who is in an
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Orthodox Presbyterian Church because those OPC churches that I have been in and have ministered in and preached in would not be places where Paul's writings would not be understood and would not be recognized in any way shape or form so what is
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Paul talking about well something that actually struck me only as I was working on this book in regards to herald camping was the greater context here if you back up into first Timothy chapter 3 you will see that there is a discussion all the way through here in the preceding verses you have a discussion of the subject beginning right at the beginning of the chapter the office of an episkopos the elder the overseer and there is a discussion of the qualifications of the elder the overseer in the church and then following this there's a discussion of deacons beginning in verse 8 and there's the two offices the church elders and deacons are discussed right in the immediate context and in fact that is exactly the immediate context of Paul's statement why is this important I have obviously looked at the passage before and have argued that this passage does not in any way shape or form substantiate the misuse of it by Roman Catholics this is not confusing the church with the truth it is not saying that the church is infallible that the church has some sort of authority over scripture it does not say the church stands on equal level or anything like that it has nothing to do with traditions and magisteriums or all the rest that stuff
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I have pointed out that the passage says the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth that is it gives the basis to and holds up and presents the truth that is within the church that the gospel message is proclaimed is within the church that the person of Jesus Christ who is truth itself is worshipped his sacrificial death is portrayed before us in the proclamation of the gospel the message of the cross we proclaim his death until he comes in the celebration of the
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Lord's Supper these are all things that are very clearly laid out for us in scripture but one of the things that I I pointed out
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I'm sorry that I had not made the connection my own mind is if all the way through verse 13 we're talking about the specific functioning of elders and deacons well how do they how do they function in what context it's the local church the immediate context is the local church and so when
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Paul speaks about how a person is to conduct himself in the household of God it's very easy for people to automatically redefine what's being said here remove it from its context and start saying well we're talking here about you know the macro issues we're we're looking at the church here in the big picture in the big fuzzy picture where you've got the big fuzzy church that no one ever actually does attend and you never get to hear anybody doing anything in the in the big fuzzy church the quote -unquote universal church you never hear a sermon in the big fuzzy church you never sing in the big fuzzy church and and you can just sort of put the big fuzzy church out there on the horizon and we can talk about it in a very dispassionate way and a very disconnected way but you can't do that in this context he's not talking about the big fuzzy church he's talking about the local body of believers with elders and deacons and he says it is that local body that's how the church is seen in this world and it is in this world that the truth the truth needs to be made known it is in this world that the truth needs to have a pillar and a support and a ground and a basis it is in this world where there's going to be opposition where the world itself stands in opposition to the truth of Christ it is here that there needs to be that solid foundation and that is exactly what
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Paul is saying so we need to recognize first and foremost that his words are about the church as she exists in the local congregations and it is the local congregations not some church off in Rome someplace it is the local congregations that are likened to the pillar and foundation of the truth is the local congregations are described as the household of God is the local congregations the church of the living
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God and of course Timothy Timothy knowing Paul so well having learned at the feet of Paul would know that he would be drawing his language his terminology from the pages of the
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Old Testament the Greek Septuagint and there are many passages in the Greek Septuagint that use the exact same terms that Paul is using here of the church for example in First Chronicles 29 3 we read moreover in my delight in my delight in the house of my
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God the treasure I have of gold and silver I give to the house of my God over and above all that I have already provided for the
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Holy Temple so here David is using this in the context of the temple the place of worship the house of my
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God it's the very same term that's translated as the household of God this is what the church is in the perspective of the
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Apostle Paul and the the very God of the Old Testament is over and over again described as the living
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God in Jeremiah 1010 Deuteronomy 526 Psalm 42 to my soul thirst for God for the living
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God when shall I come and appear before God and again in Psalm 42 when should
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I come and appear before God is in the place of worship and so there's all these connections to the language that is being used by the
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Apostle Paul in regards to the church and it is very exalted language but it is language about the church as it exists with elders and with deacons and yes that means with the elder that you may not like a whole lot with the the deacons that you might not think do the best job in the world but that has been
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God's purpose to build his church and the church is seen within the context of the local bodies where the worship of God takes place and where the singing of hymns takes place and the prayers and the reading of Scripture this all takes place within the context of the local church and so we look at first Timothy 315 it should be something that we obviously embrace very very carefully we embrace the the truth that this the scriptures are the pillar and foundation
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I'm sorry the church is a pillar and foundation of the truth and hence the attitudes that are so so often displayed in regards to the church the attitudes in regards to the very very ease that we have in moving from one to another in abandoning the fellowship of one because well
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I don't like such -and -such a person or I you know I I don't like the way that the pastor has his hair and I don't you know the choir sings too loud for me and you might say someone would actually leave a church over something you better believe it
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I cannot begin to to even note the number of reasons that I have heard from individuals for leaving a church well the pastor was too loud or the there is someone in the alto section it doesn't sing on tune it drives me crazy and and I don't like the color of the of the pews because it it's a you know doesn't go with my eyes
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I mean you might think that sounds somewhat silly but there are people who really the only reason they go to a church is because it's convenient and they they like the the program that is provided or something along those lines and yet there is nothing in any way shape or form in the
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New Testament concerning this kind of behavior in the church and the church is described in in very very different ways when we come to the text of the
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Bible now God's concern his ongoing concern for the health of the church the continuation of the church is seen in the fact that he has organized the church it
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I was having a discussion with someone just recently and I was I was pointing out you know don't you think it would be probably a wise thing to allow
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Christ to define how the church is to worship in the organization of the church don't you think
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Christ probably has the best idea about that it seems that for so many today the church is such an amorphous unorganized thing that we have to come up with the mission of the church and the the form of the church and the worship of the church and we're supposed to have some ability to sort of look around us and and determine what people are going to like and what people are going to want to embrace and so on and so forth rather than looking to the scriptures for guidance as to how the church is to function so one of the things that immediately strikes us as we look at the history of the church is for example acts 1423 when they had appointed elders for them in every church having prayed with fasting they commended them to the
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Lord in whom they had believed here are the Apostles they have gone Paul has gone on a missionary journey there has been a proclamation of the gospel as a result
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God has blessed the preaching of the message the church has been founded and knows what happens when they had appointed elders for them in every church not just some of the churches not just places where surveys showed that the seeker friendly individuals in the in the congregation would like to have elders and a certain number of elders in a certain age of elders now in every single church they appointed elders for them and so the
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Apostles begin the ministry of the church they appoint elders and those elders then are to give direction they are to to give teaching they are to be involved in protecting the flock of Christ as we see in Acts chapter 20 but notice it says in every church there was no place where these elders were not to be indeed as we think about it the
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Apostles obedient to the Lord's will for them appointed elders not in some churches but in every church this was part of their work in establishing these churches in the truth and even after Paul had departed from places like like Ephesus the eldership continued on for his
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Paul traveled toward Jerusalem remember in Acts chapter 20 he called the elders of the church to him these would be the men that are found faithful and trustworthy to whom
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Timothy was to pass on Paul's teaching and to whom the care of the church was to be entrusted you can see that in 2nd
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Timothy 2 to and Paul spoke these men in 1st Timothy 5 17 and he said the elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching and so there is a need to give honor to those who work hard at preaching and teaching the elders those who have been entrusted with this task are to be given great respect and they are to be honored and they are to be involved in the working of of preaching and teaching and instructing the people of God this is clearly what they are to do and this is to be done in every church when
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Paul wrote to Titus for example he said for this reason I left you in Crete this is Titus 1 5 for this reason
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I left you in Crete that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you notice that Titus is to set in order what remains and how does he do this part of the setting in order is to appoint elders in every city as I directed you the church is unorganized it is out of order if it does not have elders functioning within that fellowship that is
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Christ's will for his church that is what is found in the pages of scripture and of course even
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Peter who was himself an apostle says in 1st Peter chapter 5 verses 1 through 4 therefore
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I exhort the elders among you as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed shepherd the flock of God among you exercising oversight not under compulsion but voluntarily according to the will of God and not for sordid gain but with eagerness nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge but proving to be examples to the flock and when the chief shepherd appears you receive the unfading crown of glory and so it is self -evident just from this brief review of just some of the passages that God determined that this local church this pillar and foundation the truth would be organized it would have offices of elders and deacons and for just in case people are confused about it
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Bishop elder overseer these are all synonymous terms the qualifications for each office are the same
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Bishop elder overseer and they are used interchangeably by the Apostle Paul and so the development that took place later is seen very clearly in Ignatius where you have a singular bishop with presbyters underneath and this hierarchy developing that takes place later on you don't see that functioning in that way
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I do not believe in the New Testament there are those who would say well you know when Paul writes Timothy he says do not receive a a charge against an elder except on the word of two or three witnesses and therefore somehow
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Timothy has is sort of an archbishop he's a arch elder and arch overseer and he has some sort of special authority or something like that I don't think that that's the case at all
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I don't think that when Paul writes Timothy any more than he wrote Titus along the same lines that that somehow sets up some core some kind of a special office or something along those lines at all in fact
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I was just thinking there is an address so there is a discussion of this our website right now the main page article discusses this and I'm trying to remember the name of the article off top my head because it's
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I think it's called Oh presbyters dot HTML for those of you who are listening this archived and do not have the opportunity of seeing it as the main page article there is a discussion about some of those things on the website right now for those of you who would like to take a look at that so the church is organized the church has has a discernible outline it has a discernible organization there is worship that takes place in the administration of baptism and the
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Lord's Supper so on and so forth and then as we then go beyond this we then ask some more questions about the church and we find that we can turn in the scriptures to Paul's epistle to the
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Ephesians for a tremendously full discussion of the nature of the church full in the sense that there is a tremendous amount of of revelation giving not given not full in the sense of exhaustive you don't have the discussion for example the discussion you have in first Timothy or in Titus concerning the nature of the offices and and the qualifications in Ephesians that you have in those books you have you don't have that in Ephesians but full in the sense of having a tremendous amount of theological relevance to us and in the first three chapters of Ephesians we have this discussion of God's overarching plan and it's it's struck me yet again
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I I had seen this before but it has been a somewhat of a reminder to me that the
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Apostle Paul moves back and forth not as if he and it's
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I guess that's even a bad terminology is he in his speaking speaks both of the gospel and our personal embracing of Jesus Christ and and the the gospel of grace and the church without any sense of moving from topic to topic in other words they are intertwined the the gospel is so closely connected with the church with what
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God is doing in the church he adds to the church daily those who are being saved it is his purpose to bring together
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Jew and Gentile into one body in the church and so he can be talking about the cross and he can be talking about the blood of Christ and then talking about the church all the same time for many evangelicals that sounds strange because the church and the gospel are two completely different things there are many people who would say
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I know much about the gospel but honestly don't know a lot about the church but that's very difficult to understand in fact it look at for example
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Ephesians 2 13 through 16 but now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ for he himself is our peace who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall by abolishing in his flesh the enmity which is the law of commandments contained in ordinances so in himself he might make the two into one new man thus establishing peace and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross by it having put to death the enmity now there might be someone who would say
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I will that one body is the body of Jesus but the church is called the body of Christ and he's saying that the enmity that the middle wall of partition that separated you from Gentile that wall that existed in the temple that said if you're not a
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Jew you cannot go beyond here that's been done away with and how well by the blood of Christ know what when we talk about the blood of Christ what subject are we addressing well we are addressing of course the subject of the gospel itself we're talking about the atoning work of Christ and he's saying the
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Gentiles you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ and he is our peace now again
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Shalom is used right here in Ephesians 2 13 the the Shalom concept that we have talked about so many times before in Romans chapter 5 verse 1 that we have peace with God through our
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Lord Jesus Christ well that is that is personal peace that because of the removal of the of the the problem of sin and the punishment of sin we have been justified by faith therefore we have peace with God through our
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Lord Jesus Christ well here the very same term is used where he says for he himself is our peace who made both groups into one one what one body that is the church and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall by abolishing in his flesh the enmity which is the law of commandments contained in ordinances so that in himself he might make the two into one new man thus establishing peace we cannot avoid seeing that that he's really talking about the effect of the atoning work of Christ the if the fact that the work of Christ brings peace between the individual and God and yet it's also the very same basis that then brings into existence the one body of the redeemed and that is the church well as much more to look at in the book of Ephesians and we're going to continue looking at that when we come back from this break right here on the dividing line the history of the
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Christian Church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith once the core of the Reformation the church today often ignores or misunderstands this foundational doctrine in his book the
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God who justifies theologian James White calls believers to a fresh appreciation of understanding of and dedication to the great doctrine of justification and then provides an exegesis of the key scripture texts on this theme justification is the heart of the gospel in today's culture where tolerance is the new absolute
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James White proclaims with passion the truth and centrality of the doctrine of justification by faith dr.
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Jay Adams says I lost sleep over this book I simply couldn't put it down James White writes the way in exegetically and theologically oriented pastor appreciates this is no book for casual reading there is solid meat throughout an outstanding contribution in every sense of the words the
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God who justifies by dr. James White get your copy today at a omen org more than any time in the past Roman Catholics and evangelicals are working together they are standing shoulder -to -shoulder against social evils they're joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements and many evangelicals are finding the history tradition and grandeur of the
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Roman Catholic Church appealing this newfound rapport has caused many evangelical leaders and laypeople to question the age -old disagreements that have divided
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Protestants and Catholics aren't we all saying the same thing in a different language James White's book the
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Roman Catholic controversy is an absorbing look at current views of tradition you can call for the nature of the church today and let me just mention real briefly before we get back to our examination the scriptures it's always a good idea to check out the web page you know at least once a week or so sometimes new things up here and I this week posted
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I think was fairly early this week posted a new main page article and it is a response to a
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Roman Catholic apologists and some assertions regarding the monarchical Episcopate so it deals a little bit with church history a little bit with the
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New Testament some of the subjects we've been addressing today in fact and so that is on the main page as well and again
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I will not hear the end of it if I do not mention the need for you to let
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Mr. Michael Fallon know if you are considering pondering the subject of going with us to Alaska at the end of August 31st and the apologetics cruise we're going to be doing up there having a grand old time
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I'm very much looking forward to it by the time I get to that point I'm going to need a vacation a big time and I've got so much between now and then that do be praying for us and I suppose the fellow on the other side of the wall would not mind my mentioning that we have a tremendous amount of work to be doing over the next couple of months and that results in two things that is there are a cost associated with getting presses working there are costs associated with traveling
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I know that there are caught there's going to be a cost associated pretty soon with the fact that as I sit here doing this webcast it is very nice that I'm able to be in the chat channel
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I'm able to have my Bible materials in front of me and book files in front of me but unfortunately the no -name
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I think the term that used to be used rice rockets monitor that I've been using for a number of years now which
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I thought was gonna die last year but it was healed maybe I tuned in to be Anderson like that and it was healed
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I'm not sure I mean it's had the situation with the guns would go out the various color guns and so everything would like turn yellow or turn green and turn blue so I figured it was going out then it stopped doing that it was healed don't ask me why but it was healed well now it's doing the watusi and for those of you who aren't old enough to remember that it's sort of like it's sort of like the hokey -pokey maybe that's something you do you recognize it's um it do be dying is what it says what's happening and it was a lay hands on it yeah well that's not a good thing to do it was a generic
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I mean this is a no -name thingy and we have gotten a lot of work out of it it's gonna die soon that's all
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I know of and I sort of need to continue to see what I'm doing so we've got things like that coming up there are some things that you know just extra costs and so if you appreciate what we're doing and you recognize the need to be heading up to Salt Lake City going out to Mesa doing the debates we're doing and you want to remember us so please do that in a monetary fashion because that's just simply what it takes unless one of you owns a electronic store would like to send us a new 19 or 20 inch monitor that would be fine that works well
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I don't care but you got to see these things to be able to type these books up and also if you know we try to make sure it doesn't happen but if you could show a little bit of grace and patience with with poor brother rich and filling the orders we are asking our volunteers to step up to the to the plate we're doing everything we can we're running the poor little tape machines until they're screaming at us but there's just so many hours in a day and so please please keep in mind the fact that there's a very few of us involved the ministry and so if you would you know give rich a call and just say hey man
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I appreciate you actually don't want to do that because he doesn't have time for that kind of thing but actually probably wouldn't mind that I don't know but just keep that yes someone just just gave a donation we appreciate that so I guess you don't want my 15 inch
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Trinitron thank you very much MDH why don't you go back and open up a few cans of ravioli while you're at it and you can use that little 15 inch
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Trinitron no I can't see that anymore that's the problem remember my my eyes were not exactly up to up to perfect speed so the bigger the screen the better as far as that's concerned but anyhow so there's some needs there just keep in mind that we've got a lot going on especially starting the end of this month we have the workout in Mesa at the
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Easter pageant and we need tracks printed desperately and there's lots of stuff going on so pray for health and for time to get it all done
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I am attempting to finish up the camping book I have an article to write I have tremendous a number of school issues
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I need to deal with teaching at various schools and so things are just moving along at a very very very high rate of speed and if you'd like to remember us before the
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Lord we would appreciate that now going back to the subject that we are looking at today and if you have some questions about this subject you are most welcome to to get involved with the program and we'll start taking your phone calls if you would like at eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three eight six six eight five four sixty seven sixty three oh that's really nice someone just suggested to quit buying
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EAS products for a month and you'll have the money to do that well thank you very very much actually I don't buy much in the way of EAS I do iso pure so take that anyways we're going back to the subject of the church and we had looked at Ephesians chapter 2 verses 13 through 16 and the the intertwining between the discussion that Paul is is presenting of the work of Christ and how the work of Christ creates a body of redeemed people and we
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I think again probably because of a negative overreaction against Rome and against the perversion of these passages to water down what they're saying and I I don't think we want to do this but there's always this little voice in the back of of your mind that says you know if you talk about how the cross of Christ creates the church then people are going to somehow think that you're a crypto
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Catholic or something no we need to allow the scriptures to say what the scriptures say and that specifically is to allow it to say that by his in Christ that in himself he might make the two into one new man that's a
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Paul said establishing peace and might reconcile them both in one body to God the cross by it having put to death the enmity those are his words we need to allow those words to have the kind of effect that they need to have and so we need to listen to everything that the scripture has to say about these things including for example we continue in Ephesians Ephesians chapter 2 verses 19 to 22 so then you are no longer strangers and aliens but you are fellow citizens with the
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Saints and are of God's household there it is again same term used first Timothy three and are of God's household having been built on the foundation of the
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Apostles and Prophets Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone in whom the whole building being fitted together is growing into a holy temple in the
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Lord in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the spirit will again tremendously exalted language use the church there is this one body that is being built upon the foundation the
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Apostles and Prophets Christ Jesus himself as a chief cornerstone and that whole building is fitted together and it's growing into a holy temple only in the
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Lord it's a holy temple that is the dwelling place of God in the spirit this is the church and I'll admit
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I don't understand how a person could be a Christian could read passages like this and be lackadaisical and apathetic about the church
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I mean if you were outside this this body this holy temple the
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Lord if you were outside of this and you saw these words in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the spirit wouldn't you want to be in that wouldn't you want to be a part of that well of course you would and yet so many today will carry their
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Bible around and they will say that they read their Bible and they believe their Bible and yet this kind of passage goes ignored or unread or unbelieved
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I guess because the person who shows no interest or concern in the body of Christ in the church well you can't put those two together it doesn't make any sense another thing that's very very interesting is found in Ephesians chapter 3 verses 8 through 10
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Ephesians chapter 3 verses 8 through 10 and I the little subtitle that I have in the book at this point is a purpose rarely mentioned a purpose rarely mentioned and I wrote in a day when the purpose of the church is very much determined in a man -centered fashion it is rare to hear one of the most important reasons for the church's visible and recognizable existence emphasized the demonstration of the wisdom of God Paul presented this concept as he continued his explanation of the nature and purposes the church and I quoted
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Ephesians chapter 3 verses 8 through 10 Ephesians chapter 3 verses 8 through 10 to me the very least of all the
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Saints this grace was given to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places now we don't hear a whole lot of a lot of preaching on a passage like this
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Paul is talking about the great blessing that is his and in being able to preach the
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Gentiles the the grace of Christ to explain to the world truly the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God the union of Jew and Gentile the making up of the one body in Christ the destruction of of that dividing wall and yet the last verse sort of sounds like maybe it's just an appendage something tacked on at the end
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I don't know but it says so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church through the church now just consider that for just a moment how much do we value the making known of the manifold wisdom of God this reminds me a lot of the situation that we face in Romans chapter 9 when
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God speaks to Pharaoh when he says for this very purpose I raised you up why the demonstration my power making my name known and if we're all honest with ourselves for most of us we sort of sit back and go well okay in fact
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I'm very much reminded of a conversation took place this week in the chat channel
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I believe it was Thursday evening I came in and and I looked in the chat channel and lo and behold a
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Colin Smith CDS was talking with a Mormon and haven't had a
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Mormon in channel for a while and I thought that was rather providential in light of the fact that we are preparing for missions work out in Mesa and up in Salt Lake City and so on so forth so I jumped in the conversation and in fact eventually took over the conversation as I want to do
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I guess and began talking this fellow talking to him quite some time in fact ended up moderating the channel and telling everybody else to shut up so I could talk to this fellow and one of the things that he said more than once that really struck me and and I'll I will admit right here and now it always to me seems to be one of the is the mocking way in which this particular individual aside from the fact he obviously didn't think that anyone could understand
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Mormonism if you weren't a Mormon and and so on so forth he had a very acerbic shall we say attitude about himself but the mocking way in which he referred to God having an ego problem now we can understand that with Mormons I mean
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Mormons don't have a real God I mean they have an anthropomorphic man or as one put a theomorphic man anthropomorphic
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God they have what they have a God who is in fact of our species we are the species of God they have an exalted man as a as a
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God so they think they themselves are gods and embryos so it's understandable why they have absolutely no basis in theology proper for understanding the demonstration of the wrath of God the glory of God that's why many
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Mormons just just look at you like you've landed from another planet when when you talk about worshipping
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God for eternity what what's so exciting about that from a from a
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Mormon perspective all you're talking about is is worshipping a man who's just happens to be farther ahead of you on the eternal law of progression scale and that doesn't sound like something you want to do for eternity obviously and so that's understandable but within evangelicalism unfortunately the very same type of attitude prevails we look at the passages that talk about the demonstration of God's glory in the demonstration of God's power and the making of his known of his name and here the making known through the church the manifold wisdom of God and we have to ask ourselves a question how important is that and if we're really honest much of the church today has answered that question by saying it's not nearly as important as our desires to create a church that meets our alleged felt needs it's not as important as buildings it's not as important as numbers it's not as important as programs because every time we mess with the divinely ordained form of the church and we bring in our traditions or we ignore plain biblical teaching every time we start getting into this this seeker friendly ism that basically says let's let's do our worship of God in such a way that unregenerate men like it which
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I find so absolutely idiotic it's hard for me to have a meaningful conversation with people who get so into this this program program don't offend don't offend focus upon the lost persons felt need stuff every time in a conversation with those folks it's hard for me to do it in a civil way because I just want to I want to shake him
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I want to I want to slap around a little bit and said would you read your Bible for a moment please the unregenerate man doesn't worship
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God the unregenerate man does not know how to worship
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God so how in the world are we supposed to take their predilections and their desires and think that somehow when we follow that we're gonna be pleasing
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God I just you can tell
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I don't get it I don't understand it I consider it absolutely ridiculous but that's what's going on all over the place anybody involved in the church knows that that's what's going on so how important is it well it was obviously important enough to Holy Spirit of God to move the
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Apostle Paul to express in these words that through the medium of the church through the means of the church the manifold wisdom of God is made known and so when we fiddle with the church when we alter the church to fit our concepts we are no longer allowing the church to exhibit the manifold wisdom of God not only that but obviously one of the reasons
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I want to emphasize this in this particular book that I'm writing is as many of you know mr.
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camping is teaching the church has been destroyed the church has been destroyed well then does that mean that this demonstration this making known the manifold wisdom of God has ended are the rulers and the authorities and the heavenly places whatever they are there's different interpretations most of them are in a negative sense that is that these rulers and authorities are not divine rulers and authorities but demonic enemies of God if that's the case is that demonstration of the manifold wisdom of God no longer necessary seemingly from mr.
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campus perspective it is and let me let me anticipate a possible misunderstanding here many
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Roman Catholics come into our channel and they think that we believe that the church died for hundreds of years or even more than a thousand years or whatever else it might be that the church just disappeared or something along those lines
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I do not believe that in fact that is that is completely and totally opposite we've always said when we go out to talk to the
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Mormons we very very clearly announced to them the error of their viewpoint regarding the apostasy the destruction of the church and we very frequently them
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Ephesians chapter 3 verses 20 to 21 now to him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think according to the power that works within us to him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever amen now this doxology closes a section of the book of Ephesians but listen to what it says this work is that I'm sorry this power that works within us the
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Holy Spirit of God who raised Jesus from the dead this this power works within us makes it possible that God is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think
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God has the power to accomplish what he desires and decrees to accomplish and what is he going to accomplish well he's been talking about how by the cross he creates this body of the
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Redeemed the church and that's why he can then say to him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations now is is
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God glorified in Christ Jesus well of course he is was that ever gonna end no is has there ever been a time since the resurrection that God has not received glory in Christ Jesus to every generation of course not well then it follows inexorably that the same is true of the church to him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations and as soon as you say that not only do the the
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Mormons immediately leave that passage it goes someplace else
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I I can honestly say I have never gotten a meaningful exegetical response to Ephesians chapter 3 verse 20 21 from an
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LDS person I just simply haven't I don't see how they can provide one but immediately the
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Roman Catholic says oh wait a minute then then you believe the church has always existed so if it wasn't in if it wasn't in Rome then where was it if it's not the
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Roman Catholic Church then are you saying it's the Orthodox Church and they immediately associate this not with local assemblies with elders and deacons not with the way the church has has exhibited itself and that can be a very small assembly but they automatically transition into big macro organization magisterium popes prelates councils stuff so that's immediately one of the problems and we have to explain to the
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Roman Catholic who would be listening to this that we believe that God has always had his people we believe that God has always had his church that we do not believe that the church has to be perfect to be the church because if that was the case then we're all in a lot of trouble the church is the body of redeemed people and those redeemed people experience sin and are ignorant of this truth or that but God continues to build his church he has safeguard his word for us not some oral unverifiable tradition but his word for us so that the church always looks to the word the unchanging word and desires to be reformed in accordance with what's that word teaches and of course we then join to that the explanation that people need to recognize the
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Roman Catholic who's listening this needs to recognize we do not accept your assertion that the early church fathers for example were
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Roman Catholics I have often said to to Roman Catholics if you walked into a church and the people in that church did not believe that the
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Bishop of Rome is the universal head of the church nor that he's infallible and that these people did not believe in the bodily assumption of Mary the immaculate conception of Mary did not seek
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Mary's intercession to save them did not believe in purgatory did not believe in indulgences and did not believe in transubstantiation would you identify these people as Roman Catholics we actually had one fellow late last week or early this week who obviously knew where I was going and said well they could be but most people would recognize that no they are not
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Roman Catholics and yet that's what the early church is all about I keep challenging folks show me someone the early church believed all these things and when you can do that then you can call the
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Roman Catholic Church well historically everybody knows that's not the case and that's why John Henry Cardinal Newman developed the concept of the development hypothesis try to get around the unpleasant facts of history itself but the point is we don't accept the claim that well worthy were the ones been around for two thousand years obviously we're not going to secede over to you the history of the of the church at that point and obviously we've done entire programs on that subject so just a little bit of a side there for those of you who might be listening you might hear us saying many many high things about the church say well you're inconsistent if you then reject
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Rome none of this that I have been describing is descriptive of Rome I can guarantee you that it is not the
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Church of Rome that is described in Ephesians chapter 3 verse 21 8 6 6 8 5 4 67 63
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I have barely begun to scratch the surface to be perfectly honest with you but we will continue after this break what is dr.
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Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book chosen but free a new cult secularism false prophecy scenarios no dr.
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Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism he insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant in his book the potter's freedom
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James White replies to dr. Geisler but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply it is a defense of the very principles upon which the
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Protestant Reformation was founded indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate
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James White masterfully counters the evidence against so -called extreme Calvinism defines what the reform faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture the potter's freedom a defense of the
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Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen but free you'll find it in the reform theology section of our bookstore at a omen dot org millions of petitioners from around the world are employing
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Pope John Paul the second to recognize the Virgin Mary as co -redeemer with Christ elevating the topic of Roman Catholic views of Mary to national headlines and widespread discussion in his book
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Mary another redeemer James White sidesteps hostile rhetoric and sites directly from Roman Catholic sources to explore this volatile topic he traces how
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Mary of the Bible esteemed mother of the Lord obedient servant and chosen vessel of God has become the immaculately conceived bodily assumed
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Queen of Heaven viewed as co -mediator with Christ and now recognized as co -redeemer by many in the
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Roman Catholic Church Mary another redeemer is fresh insight into the woman the
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Bible calls blessed among women and an invitation to single -minded devotion to God's truth you can order your copy of James White's book
01:00:13
Mary another redeemer at a omen dot org incorporating the most recent research and solid biblical truth letters to a
01:00:21
Mormon elder by James White is a series of personal letters written to a fictional Mormon missionary examining the teaching and theology of the
01:00:28
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints the book brings a relational approach to material usually presented in textbook style
01:00:35
James White draws from his extensive apologetics ministry to thousands of Mormons in presenting the truth of Christianity with well -defined arguments
01:00:44
James White provides readers with insight and understanding into the Book of Mormon the prophecies visions and teachings of Joseph Smith the theological implications of the doctrines of Mormonism and other major historical issues relevant to the claims of the
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LDS Church this marvelous study is a valuable text for Christians who talk with Mormons and is an ideal book to be read by Mormons letters to get your copy today in the
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Mormonism section of our bookstore at a omen dot org the
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Church of Jesus Christ is the subject of the dividing line today and we are looking at what the
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Bible says we've barely even begun to scratch the surface there is so much and of course
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I'm emphasizing those elements that are generally under attack under attack by Harold camping and attacking the continuing nature of the church he says the church has been destroyed by God that to God is finished the church the
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Holy Spirit has been withdrawn you cannot even be saved within the fellowship of the church and before I begin refuting
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Mr. campings heresies in my book I want to start where we need to start and that is the only reason he's been able to get away with ways to get away with is because so many people do not understand the nature of the church any longer do not stand as church men and church women today do not defend what the
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Bible says concerning the nature of the church and so we are looking at the doxology at Ephesians chapter 3 verses 20 through 21 the perpetuity of the church the fact that God would receive glory in the church to all generations forever and ever amen and I tend to believe the teachings of the
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Apostle Paul more than either Harold camping or Joseph Smith it is rather sad to see the parallel between Harold camping and Joseph Smith but there is a parallel there between the two of them sadly on that particular level
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I would also point out we mentioned earlier the appointment of elders within the church there is another important element of that and that is the
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Bible teaches that the elders in the church the leaders in the church are there for a purpose they are there to keep watch over the souls of those who have been committed to their care
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Peter talked about this and the right of the Hebrews mentions in Hebrews 13 17 obey your leaders and submit to them for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account let them do this with joy and not with grief for this would be unprofitable for you and that's one of the most unpopular verses in the
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Bible I have discovered I did in fact get nasty emails from people because I pushed this subject and I told people if you cannot tell me who these leaders are that are supposed to have watch over your souls then you're in sin and I had people oh you're just terrible and you're mean and you're oh we'll just never ever support you again and so on and so forth and you know
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I'm sorry but Hebrews 13 17 is there if you're going to be consistent then we we need to allow it to be there and to say what it says and each one of us needs to ask who is who is this leader and how am
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I submitted to those leaders notice it's not a single leader it is a plural word the elders are appointed as elders plural in the churches and who is it that keeps watch over my soul who is it is going to give an account who is it that I should be looking to give them joy in their so doing these are things that Hebrews 13 17 addresses also
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I would keep in mind the teaching of scripture found in Acts chapter 2 we live in America and there are seemingly a lot of John Wayne style
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Christians out there who think they can just hop on their horse and and go out into the into the wilderness and it's just going to be me and my
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Bible and God and all will be well as if Christians were designed to live in isolation and without fellow believers around them to encourage them or to hold them accountable either one the scriptures don't teach this in fact in Acts chapter 2 verse 41 and 42 we read so then those who had received his word were baptized and that day there were added about 3 ,000 souls and they were continually devoting themselves the apostles teaching and to fellowship to the breaking of bread and to prayer so here we have an early insight into the church what were they added to they were added to a fellowship where they added to some sort of some sort of nebulous unknown group that could not be identified in no way shape or form it is very clear that they were added to an existing fellowship it is a fellowship with leaders that is the apostles verse 42 they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship can't fellowship by yourself very well can you to the breaking of bread and to prayer so there was a community that developed as a result here at the very beginning of the church now someone say well yeah okay there's a that's just that's that was just then things have changed how inside how so on what basis what basis is that kind of an assertion made then look at verse 47 as well acts 247 praising
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God and having favor with all the people and the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who are being saved they were being added to a number now you might say well that's that's just the general universal number whatever number that is nobody but God knows what it is but God was adding to the number but he didn't bother to tell anybody what that number was now obviously what
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Luke is saying is when people would hear the gospel they were added to the fellowship of the church and that was a fellowship that was organized it was a fellowship that was discernible it was a fellowship that had a purpose it had a purpose in the prayers that had a purpose in the worship and a purpose in baptism and the
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Lord's Supper and the teaching and preaching of the apostles doctrine that was what they were added to and it is a very clear teaching of the
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Bible and so when we think about being added to the fellowship we then can bring in another aspect of Christian teaching and that is we are told to love one another we are to love our brother and our sister in Christ our brother and our sister in Christ we are to love them in fact first John tells us that if we do not love them if we hate our brother then we walk in the darkness the truth's not in us we don't we're not even a believer well it has been well said that it is very very easy to say
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I love the brethren I love the brethren from your easy chair at home it's very easy in isolation to say
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I love the brethren but it's a whole lot more difficult when you have to be around the brethren there are some folks in the church that just rub you the wrong way there are some folks in the church just don't look and act like you there are some folks in the church at a different place in their in their sanctification you gotta put feet on that command and you can't do that out in the woods hugging the tree with your
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Bible it is not God's purpose for us to become monks and go live in a monastery in a private cell separate from everybody else part of the work of sanctification and making us like Christ is to cause us to be around others so that we will minister to them so we will help them in bearing their burdens and that happens within the context of the church and so when we absent ourselves from that when we say that God's wisdom is not wise in our eyes then we are in essence cutting ourselves off of a major means that God has ordained to conform us the image of Christ Christ showed us a tremendous amount of patience did he not in dealing with the
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Apostles do we not every once in a while just chuckle at the at the antics of the
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Apostles and the long -suffering of the Lord and putting up with their ignorance and it's easy for us to chuckle but God has to do that with us every day and then we become more like him we become more like him when within the fellowship of the church we show his love so you see that the
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Bible says much about the church and I I've been preaching most this time and most of you just listening in possibly you have some questions about what has been said 866 -854 -6763 866 -854 -6763 is the number for you to call to participate in the program today if you have questions about the nature of the church and I wouldn't mind if you would like to for example ask how we could present this in an apologetic fashion to the
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Mormon to the camping I to the Roman Catholic whatever it might be if you'd like to join the program today 866 -854 -6763 just sort of observing a bit of a tiff taking place in the in the channel at the moment let us all love one another actually
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I've seen what's going on there and somebody needs to calm down and you know just take a few a few deep breaths and follow the
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Nick someone has a Nick that that they need to be exercising right now would be a good good way of doing that 866 -854 -6763 is the phone number today and I would like to see if there's anyone who has any interest
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I'm sort of leaning back here I see a light but I don't know if that means anything because that's not normally the light that phone calls come in on actually
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I don't know if you have noticed thank you there you go I have not I don't know if you've noticed that I I've been using my little cough button today see
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I just use it right there you can't really tell on the net because it is dry out here in Arizona actually the humidity went up a lot recently and for those of you who are like freezing to death right now back east there's some folks in channel been talking about how it's you know this morning it was 42 degrees but now it's down to 25 and it's windy and it's cold
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I I think Stefanos was saying in Chicago that he had been out in shorts and a short -sleeved shirt today and then and now it's cold and windy and all the rest of stuff currently looking at the conditions here in Phoenix Arizona it is 80 degrees 14 percent the relative humidity dew point 27 degrees and the barometer is 30 .05
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and falling if I always wanted to be a weatherman and it is it is absolutely beautiful outside basically unlimited visibility beautiful 80 degree day so those of you who are freezing to death back back east well that's why so many people from back east now live in Phoenix Arizona it is truly beautiful out here well
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I don't see any phone calls two ways we can do this
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I can move on to something else I can sing or you can call and the singing part is normally brought people out but we're looking primarily for questions on this and if people don't have a if I covered it all and you say hey that's you've you've got you've answered every question it could ever be asked on the subject of the church great that's wonderful then we'll just we'll just move on from things things from there that's okay with me but I do hope that you understand the reasons why
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I emphasized what I did today I think it is very very important don't worry buzz
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I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sing I used to be able to sing all right in fact I could yeah I could play as the great reformer you know
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I noticed my asthma is back real real nicely in fact that's what I'm gonna do let me see if I can find it here
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I have anyone who's looking by the way for a just a tremendous you know palm just announced the m5 50 we can start talking about PDAs and drive everybody right off the right off the program thank you very much for noticing that that about the palm anyone who's looking for a just a wonderful program my computer is up thank you a wonderful program to manage your music and your mp3s