Overcoming Pro-Choice Arguments

2 views

May 24, 2017

Do you want to be able to respond to the arguments given by Pro-choice advocates? Watch this powerful message given by Pastor Jeff Durbin on overcoming these types of arguments as well as overcoming the common arguments given to oppose ministry at abortion clinics. Please join us by sharing this talk. For more, go to http://apologiastudios.com. You can partner with our church by signing-up for All Access in which you get every TV show, every After Show, and Apologia Academy!

00:00: Hi everybody, I'm Jeff Durbin with Apologia Church. Thank you again for watching EndAbortionNow .com,
00:05: the live stream event. Don't forget to hashtag EndAbortionNow .com and share the live stream across your social media platforms.
00:13: And if you would, consider partnering with Apologia Church as we communicate the gospel in the area of abortion across the
00:20: United States of America. You can do so by going to EndAbortionNow .com, go to the Donate tab, and if you feel led, give there.
00:27: You can partner with about a hundred churches right now that have partnered with Apologia Church across the United States.
00:33: Just this week, babies have been saved. Just this week, Christians have been getting involved in this ministry, bringing the gospel to their local abortion mill, and you can do the same.
00:41: But if you feel led, give today at EndAbortionNow .com and help us continue this effort to end abortion immediately in our nation.
00:50: EndAbortionNow .com. Good afternoon.
01:00: You guys ready? All right, so let's pray. Father, please bless this time together.
01:07: I pray, God, that you'd allow me to communicate, Lord, your truth in a way, God, that honors you, glorifies you, and prepares your people.
01:16: I pray, God, that you would send us, God, send us, Lord, with your word on our lips.
01:23: God, I pray that you would grant to us the ability, Lord, to speak boldly and with love, with gentleness, with respect.
01:31: I pray, God, that you would allow us to cast down every argument that exalts itself against the knowledge of Jesus Christ and prepare us,
01:39: God. And I pray, Lord, you would help us to expose the futility and the argumentation for child sacrifice, the slaughter of innocent children.
01:50: Help us, God, to expose, Lord, all of this evil, cast down all these arguments, and I pray,
01:58: God, that you'd allow us to do it in a way that gets before the watching world. In Jesus' name, amen.
02:03: So if you'll excuse me, I don't know why over the last three days I haven't been able to sleep only a couple of hours, and I had a tooth infection that went all the way into my sinus cavities, and so I'm dealing with that right now.
02:13: So I'm gonna do my best to communicate in a way where you can actually understand me. Let's do this first.
02:20: We have to lay down a few things. I cannot in this one session we have lay down the biblical apologetic methodology.
02:27: I can't spend time explaining to you the need for us as Christians to make sure that we have a reasoned defense to everyone who asks of us a reason for the hope that is within us.
02:39: I'd love to do that, encourage you guys to go to Apologia Studios on YouTube, listen to a lot of lectures that have been done.
02:44: There's all kinds of opportunities that you guys can have to listen to actual conversations, debates.
02:50: We have actually hit the record button at the abortion clinics that we've gone to, and you can listen to the standard arguments that you'll hear really across the board, across the country, from pro - abortionists.
03:04: And so what I want to do right now is at least lay down a principle in Scripture.
03:10: The public proclamation of the gospel, actually arguing for the faith, that's actually a good and godly and righteous thing to do.
03:18: And I'm going to do that by way of one of my favorite texts on this point, and that's Acts chapter 9. So if you turn your Bibles to Acts chapter 9, and by the way, if you want fuel for your passion and the fire that you have to go out and reach people in the marketplace and at the abortion mills, you can't do better than read the book of Acts over and over and over and over again.
03:43: I do believe, as I said last night, that God gives to us in the book of Acts really a pattern, a model, principles of what
03:50: He calls us to do and how He calls us to be as we fight for the kingdom of the
03:57: Messiah, as we preach the gospel. And in Acts chapter 9, it's one of actually several places you can go in the book of Acts that demonstrates some general principles the apostles were holding to, and what it looked like.
04:11: And so in Acts chapter 9, verse 22 is the text
04:18: I want to just point you to so you see where it's at. It says, But Saul increased all the more in strength and confounded the
04:26: Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the Messiah. So this is right after the
04:33: Apostle Paul is on his way to persecute Christians. He gets knocked off his high horse. His eyes are opened.
04:39: He turns to Jesus, and what's interesting about the text is that as soon as he comes to Christ, he takes a beeline for Damascus to do what?
04:47: To go to their place of religious worship to cause trouble. He was a godly troublemaker. He goes to their place of religious worship.
04:54: Most people today, I think if you said, we're gonna go to this place where people are worshiping over here, but they're doing it in a way that doesn't honor
05:00: God. They don't know Jesus. They would say, well, don't do that. It's not respectful. That's not a righteous thing to do.
05:05: I can't tell you how many times I had people tell me our ministry to the Mormon temple in Mesa, Arizona was wrongheaded.
05:14: It was not Christian. It was mean -spirited and unkind. But I kept seeing people come to Christ.
05:21: I kept seeing relationships beginning outside there. I kept seeing opportunities for the gospel.
05:26: I kept seeing lives being transformed, and so I just didn't listen. Sometimes that's a good thing to do.
05:32: And as a result of even that ministry going out to their place of religious worship, which they find very highly offensive, we've lost count as to how many
05:40: Mormons, Latter -day Saints, have come to Christ as a result of that ministry. And I gotta say, one of the reasons that I do that kind of ministry, and as a church, we're committed to that kind of ministry, is because of these instances in the
05:51: Scriptures where you see the principles, really, of godly warfare—be careful using that term right now— godly spiritual warfare, loving people with the gospel, fighting for the faith.
06:06: But in Acts chapter 9, it's interesting what happens here. He goes to the synagogue. He's proving that Jesus is the
06:12: Messiah. And it says that he confounded the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus was the
06:17: Christ. Now watch this. You might think, wonderful, that's amazing. The Apostle Paul goes and proves Jesus is the
06:22: Messiah. He's arguing with people, obviously, for the faith, and it's a little sharp -edged, a little edgy, and maybe some people think mean -spirited and unkind.
06:33: But, you know, there's obviously a reason for it. He's an inspired Apostle, filled with the Spirit of God. God used him to evangelize that first century generation to get the gospel all the way out to the point that the
06:44: Apostle Paul says in Romans chapter 1, to a church that he hasn't actually met yet, he says that your faith is being proclaimed throughout the entire world.
06:54: He says in Colossians that the gospel had been preached to every creature under heaven in the first century.
07:00: And you're thinking, well, not like literally, that's just how they talked. In the known world, in the
07:05: Roman Empire, the gospel had gotten to the farthest reaches of it. This is the guy that was a part of that.
07:11: This is the master evangelist. He's preaching the gospel, the church is built up, they're edified, they're equipped.
07:16: Now, what's the result of preaching the gospel in this way? Going to the marketplace, going to the places of religious worship, and arguing for the faith.
07:25: Well, everyone comes to Jesus and it's an amazing thing, right? It's glorious. No, it says in verse 23, right after it says that he's proving that Jesus is the
07:33: Messiah, when many days had passed, the Jews plotted to kill him.
07:41: So, I mean, that is the result of being a godly troublemaker. Oftentimes, you're a godly troublemaker. You love people, you lay yourself down for them, you love
07:49: God and them enough to say and do something, and sometimes when you're faithful in doing that, people want you dead.
07:58: I've said it many times. When people confront the way that we do ministry, the risky places that we put ourselves, people say, you know,
08:06: I think that that's abrasive. It's just mean -spirited. It's not kind. It's not Christian. You ought to be making friends with those people.
08:12: And what I say is, well, in the book of Acts, the Apostles were beaten for their proclamation of the gospel and people wanted them dead.
08:19: No one's tried to kill me yet, so I think I'm doing something wrong. I'm on my way. That's right.
08:28: But what's interesting here is the result of this. It says that people plotted to kill him. Their plot became known to Saul.
08:34: They were watching the gates and day and night in order to kill him. But his disciples took him by night and led him down through an opening in the wall, lowering him in a basket.
08:43: Interesting thing about that is that it's perfectly appropriate for Christians to be wise, and if you find out people are trying to kill you, it's good to walk away.
08:53: So, mark that down. If you go to an abortion mill and you realize that something's about to happen, somebody's about to punch your face in or knock you out or injure you, it's not un -Christian to simply say, let's find a way out, right?
09:06: Let's get out. Let's call the police. That's important. And not to get involved in a way where you might lose your life.
09:11: It's okay to sneak out of the crowd like Jesus did. And when he come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples and they were all afraid of him for they did not believe that he was a disciple.
09:21: That was probably an interesting conversation. No, but guys, for real. Like, really?
09:27: Right? It says, Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles and declared to them how on the road he had seen the
09:32: Lord who spoke to him and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus. So he went in and out among them in Jerusalem preaching, what?
09:41: Boldly in the name of the Lord. He went in and out among them in Jerusalem preaching boldly in the name of the
09:49: Lord. Here's Paul going to a place of worship and he's stirring the pot so that they want him dead.
09:55: He's going in and out among the Jerusalem preaching boldly in the name of Jesus and he spoke and what?
10:03: Disputed, argued against the Hellenists, but they were seeking to kill him. So is it a righteous thing for Christians to actually argue with unbelievers?
10:15: Argue with those who are hostile to the faith. Now, you might be thinking, well, why Jeff? We're all in this.
10:20: We understand that that's the way to go. I have to mention a lot of people are watching this right now who are part of modern evangelicalism that essentially sees
10:27: Christians arguing with unbelievers and says, Guys, I don't know. I just don't know. I just don't know about that y 'all, right?
10:36: The idea, you know, you see Christians arguing for the faith. You think, well, that's not from Jesus, right? You're not being very much like Jesus. Well, Jesus argued with people.
10:45: Jesus confronted people with the truth. Jesus loved people enough to say something and the Apostles lived in such a way, make no mistake about it, that they were vilified, crucified, decapitated, flayed, burned in ovens.
11:00: You see? That's what you get for living your life out loud for Jesus, right? That's the kinds of things that they did that set forth the gospel into the world.
11:08: Oh, and by the way, that's the reason that you know Jesus today. That's the truth. So remember this, if you look in the book of Acts, you see how the church is actually moving in the world.
11:19: What are they doing? What are they involved in? Well, they're involved in argumentation for the glory of the gospel, for the faith.
11:26: They're going out into the marketplace and preaching the gospel. They're going out to the place of highest philosophical debate and discussion at the
11:33: Areopagus and they're talking about Jesus. They're going places and preaching the gospel and what takes place as a result of it is that sometimes people want to kill him and they go to other places and they preach the gospel, not in a way that is sinful and hostile and unkind.
11:48: They're not being jerks. All right. They're not being street screechers. Right? They're communicating the truth about the gospel and sometimes when that truth goes out,
12:00: God empowers that message and he draws his people to himself. Glory to God. And sometimes when that message goes out, it hits a fallen heart where there is hostility and this person's at war with God and in turn now they're at war with you and sometimes the
12:17: Apostles go into a place to preach the gospel in the public realm and everybody's hearing and what takes place a riot breaks out.
12:26: Sometimes you preach the gospel faithfully and people make a personal commitment to not even eat until you're dead.
12:33: That took place in the book of Acts and you have to ask the question is this just a peculiar band of believers in the first century or is this actual godly principles laid down from Genesis to Revelation about open -air proclamation of the truth?
12:48: Because that's a pattern you see in the Bible. You see cultures change all the time.
12:54: I mean cultures change from where you land in an airplane. Now we live in a time and an age where you can get in an airplane and in six, seven hours you're stepping into a completely different culture.
13:06: So cultures shift, but these principles are unchanging in the scriptures. The bold proclamation of the truth, public proclamation of the truth of God, those things don't ever change.
13:17: Now, by the way, I want to make one note here and just in terms of how amazing this is right now. Think about this for a moment.
13:23: All throughout history, even moments like this, the Apostle Paul goes to the synagogue and we don't know exactly what was said.
13:29: All we have is the account. Luke's telling us, well this took place. Confounded the Jews. People wanted him dead.
13:35: The church was built up. They were multiplied. All that took place. That's in Acts chapter 9. All you have now is
13:40: Luke giving the accounting of that time that Paul went to that synagogue in Damascus, right? But it only happened once.
13:47: You got this little blurb about it in history right here. You see what happened, right? And then throughout history you have giants of the faith that have done open -air public proclamation of the truth.
13:55: You've got the Whitefields. You've got the Edwards. You've got Christians in history that turned the world upside down.
14:03: Sometimes it seemed like it was overnight. Public proclamation of the gospel. Whitefield going places.
14:09: He's preaching so much. He preached over 18 ,000 sermons in his life. Literally preached himself to death.
14:15: The day that he died, he actually was preaching and then he was in a house. He wasn't feeling well. And as he walked up the stairs sick, there were people living around him.
14:22: He turned and faced them and preached. Before he went to bed, preached a sermon for like an hour and a half. Went to bed and died.
14:31: What a way to go. Preached himself to death. Praise God. But changed the world with the proclamation of the gospel.
14:39: But here's the thing. In those moments, all you have is like a written account. I was at this thing. I traveled for two days to get to hear
14:44: Whitefield and people came to Christ. It was amazing. Hard preaching. Lives were transformed. Cities were changing.
14:51: But it's like one moment in time. All you have is a single account. Maybe you can find it. Maybe you can't. But we live in a day now where you go out into a street corner and public proclamation of the gospel.
15:01: You preach that sermon, but if it's recorded, now you launch it onto the internet and now your audience went from five very confused onlookers.
15:14: Right? To 1 million people worldwide that are watching it.
15:19: Right? And guess what? That message that you preach, that message that you bring wherever you do, when you put it up online, which is a gift from God.
15:27: By the way, God gave the internet to Christians. It's for us to glorify God with and to get the gospel out.
15:33: I hope you know that. That's the truth. But when you put these things out into the world, know this. Now you have the gospel on repeat 24 hours a day, 365 days a year at the click of a button around the world.
15:46: Think about it. Sometimes we'll put a message up and we use this vehicle that God has given to us.
15:53: We put a message up and in the moment you hit like send, people are watching what
16:00: God is doing and they're hearing the message in London, South Africa, yes, even
16:07: Canada. Canada happens there. South America, New Zealand, Australia, all of a sudden dots are popping up all around the map.
16:14: And now this message is literally clearing the world going around and around and around 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
16:22: Sometimes we get messages from people after this public proclamation of the gospel. We put it up online.
16:28: We forget about it. We get a message from somebody two, three years later that came to Christ as a result of watching something that we put up on the internet three years ago.
16:37: They came to Jesus. That happens all the time, brothers and sisters. And so I'm adding that to this to say look this principle of public proclamation of the gospel, that's a principle in Scripture you can't argue with.
16:49: And the evangelical church of the 21st century in the West needs to learn the principles in Scripture about how the gospel is to be brought.
16:58: But what we have now is not simply these isolated moments in history where we preach the gospel one time to one audience and then we're done.
17:05: Now we take that one time to one audience and we now send it around the world at the click of a button.
17:11: Don't tell me the world is not getting better. Don't tell me that.
17:20: We can communicate the gospel now at the click of a button around the world in an instant.
17:26: We have no excuse. None. Consider this last thing for a moment now.
17:31: I know we're supposed to be doing overcoming objections, but my name is Jeff Durbin and you know how I do this, okay? This is awesome, and I want you to take ownership of this, please.
17:43: What we're doing right now, in just this moment, right now, these cameras right here. You realize how we're putting this up right now, right?
17:51: We're connecting it to Facebook Live. We're clicking a button. Last night's live stream was seen this morning by over 24 ,000 people.
18:04: Did you see? Now think about it for a second how amazing this is. Last night's live stream seen by over 24 ,000 people all around the world.
18:12: And we did it using an app that we don't pay for. Facebook is free. With some devices that we have actually paid a lot for.
18:25: But we connect all these things, we send them off into space, and we're doing something right now in this moment that just 15 years ago would have costed millions of dollars to do.
18:38: Do you know what it would cost to broadcast a conference around the world?
18:44: 15, 20 years ago. Can you imagine? Satellites, cable, all the things that you would have to do.
18:50: And now we get to do it when we want, how we want. No one in media controls it.
18:55: We control it. We can change the conversation. So here's the thing. Watch this. When Roe v.
19:01: Wade started, Christians didn't have then the ability to communicate like we do now.
19:08: You get to broadcast live what takes place with the gospel outside of an abortion mill. You get to do it with a thing that actually goes into your pocket.
19:17: You just took an entire satellite truck from the 80s and you put it into a little, right there.
19:22: It fits right here in your pocket, right? And it goes, watch, not just across your state or across the United States.
19:27: It goes around the world live, live. We have all the tools necessary to bring a public proclamation of the gospel into the world.
19:39: All the tools. We have no excuse. Now watch this. Then the marketplace you had to walk to.
19:45: You had to go to it. You had to preach the gospel. It was that one time, that one audience. Now the marketplace has broadened.
19:52: It's much bigger now than that place down there or around your neighborhood. The marketplace now has opened up to the entire world.
20:01: And you can use all of these amazing devices and technologies that God has given to us to communicate the gospel.
20:08: All of it was given to the world, by the way, by the Christian worldview anyways. So start taking ownership of it.
20:14: And if you want a message on that, Apologia Studios on YouTube. We did a message on that too. Okay, here we go. So quickly,
20:22: I want to say in terms of apologetic methodology and defending the faith, again,
20:27: I can't give an entire message on apologetics today, but I will tell you that if you don't stand on Jesus Christ, you fall into futility and foolishness.
20:35: If you don't start your defense of the truth with the
20:41: Lord of truth, then you fall into as much foolishness as the unbeliever. Jesus has to be the source, the foundation of all your knowledge, all your wisdom, all truth, or we collapse.
20:54: Understand what we said last night is there's no neutrality. Amen? No neutrality. You're either with Christ or against Christ.
21:00: Okay, he's the source of all knowledge, wisdom, and truth. Now the unbeliever also has a knowledge of Jesus.
21:07: The Bible says that. They know the true God, but they suppress the truth of God and unrighteousness. What's going on with the unbeliever is not lack of evidence, not enough reason, not enough light.
21:17: What's going on with the unbeliever underneath everything ultimately is a spiritual condition of rebellion and hostility with their creator.
21:26: Now, what we don't do is go battering around saying, well, you really know God. Yes, you do. Yes, you do.
21:31: What we want to do is expose the futility of their position showing that they truly do know the God of the universe.
21:37: Example is when you stand outside of an abortion mill and say, a transgender, atheist,
21:45: Satanist, all three, start complaining to you about injustice.
21:55: Just take this as a case example here. A transgender, atheist,
22:00: Satanist, humanist, Satanist, starts complaining about injustices. Well, the
22:06: Bible says that this person knows God, they suppress the truth about God and unrighteousness. So I'm standing on the
22:11: Word of God in Jesus Christ and this person says all these injustices are a problem. Not with your atheism, my friend.
22:19: Because if your worldview is true, if you actually believed it, there is no such thing as injustice.
22:25: All we are is bipedal protoplasm in a cosmos that doesn't care. And can
22:30: I say something really amazing? It's so awesome. Give the unbeliever enough time and enough rope and they eventually hang themselves.
22:38: So for years I've been saying as I talk to atheists, well, I try to communicate quick points because sometimes they're ready to hit me or leave, okay?
22:44: So you believe your bipedal protoplasm and sometimes unbelievers don't like that. It makes them uncomfortable.
22:51: I've had people tell me you're just being silly. That's not really fair. You're just being obscene.
22:57: You're using language just to make us look ridiculous. And then Bill Nye. To all my bipeds who identify as ladies.
23:13: You guys see that? No? No, did you guys see it? For those of you guys that did,
23:18: I'm sorry. For those of you guys that are about to, I'm sorry. So Bill Nye is obviously an atheist.
23:26: He believes in neo -darwinian micromutation, macroevolution. That's his worldview. He's hostile to the
23:33: Christian faith and message and so on. His new series on Netflix, he, I'm sorry, the first episode.
23:43: Wow. Amazing. But he has this scene that he's very, very proud of and he launches the scene and the
23:51: DJ announces like what's going to happen and the DJ says to all my bipeds who identify as ladies.
24:00: That is the worldview. I say bipedal protoplasm. Oh Jeff, you're being ridiculous.
24:05: You're being silly. And then Bill Nye shows up. It's like bipeds. Right? That's the worldview.
24:11: If we truly are bipedal protoplasm in a universe that does not care, then there is no reason to decry injustice.
24:18: As a matter of fact, there is no such thing as injustice. There's just what is. All we are is matter in motion in a cosmos that doesn't care.
24:25: No justice ahead of us, above us, nothing. It's just sky above us. So what it shows when the unbeliever starts talking about things like something is immoral or not right or not good or unjust, what they're displaying is that deep down in a heart of hearts, they know him.
24:44: They know God and as an image bearer of God, they can't get away from the fact that they want justice, love, truth.
24:52: The point is they're suppressing the truth and unrighteousness. They know the true and living God. They are hostile in that moment to their
24:58: Creator. It's my job as a Christian to communicate the gospel, not to abandon my commitments to Jesus Christ, not to play neutral with the unbeliever.
25:07: My job is to communicate the truth of God in the gospel to win this person to Christ.
25:13: That's my job. And one thing I want to point you to is the twofold apologetic methodology.
25:19: It helps when communicating with people who want to fight for abortion. Proverbs 26, verses 4 through 5, twofold apologetic methodology.
25:30: First, who knows it? Don't answer the fool according to his folly, lest you be like unto him.
25:39: And I memorized that the way that Dr. Greg Bonson used to quote it. Don't answer the fool according to their folly or you'll be like them.
25:48: First point, don't answer the fool according to their folly or you'll be like them. That can be taken a number of different ways.
25:55: That could be taken in terms of you don't take the attitudes, you don't take the behavior, you don't take the beliefs of the unbeliever and begin adopting them and answering them like them.
26:07: So take for example the hostile nature of what takes place outside of Planned Parenthood. People are abusive, people get physical, we don't give it back.
26:16: Don't answer them according to their folly. Don't be abusive back. Don't get physical back.
26:21: Another thing is don't answer them according to their folly. Don't take their presuppositions. Don't take their outlook on life.
26:29: Don't act like, yeah, you know, maybe Jesus isn't the Messiah. You know, maybe there really isn't a
26:34: God. Let's find out. What's this statistical probability? Is it more towards Jesus or more?
26:40: No. What we want to say is the fool says in his heart there is no God. If you reject the
26:46: God of the Bible, you're reduced to absurdity and foolishness. I don't want to take your presuppositions.
26:52: I don't want to take your bankrupt bootleg worldview. It is bootleg by the way, from us, okay?
26:59: And I don't want to reason accordingly. So what I want to do as a believer is actually maintain my commitments to the
27:05: Word of God, to Jesus Christ. When I reason, I'm not going to reason from a position of neutrality.
27:10: I'm gonna reason from the place where there is absolute truth, and that's found only in Jesus. So that's first point.
27:17: Second point of the two -fold apologetic methodology is, it sounds like a contradiction, it's not.
27:24: It's a two -fold apologetic methodology. It's two methods of answering the fool.
27:29: One, don't answer them according to their foolishness. The second part is to answer them according to their folly, lest they be wise in their own conceit.
27:40: And what's that say? That's saying step into their position. Show them the folly of their position.
27:47: Step into their worldview. Show them the implications of it. Don't get out of your position committed to the
27:54: Word of God and adopt their position. Don't pretend neutrality. But at certain moments, it's a good idea to step into their worldview and show them the absurdity of it.
28:06: Let them get to the logical consequences of it, so you can point them ultimately back to Jesus. What's the point?
28:13: Is it to win arguments? Win the man. Win the woman.
28:19: Win the child. We're not there to win arguments. We're there to win people with the truth.
28:26: And I want to say this, if you struggle being a prideful person, being kind of person that always has to be right, if you struggle with that, you need to get on your knees and you need to beat your breast and repent.
28:40: Because it's only the grace of God that changed your mind, if it's changed at all. Only the grace of God.
28:48: I would say you need to do a deep study of the sovereignty of God in salvation. That'll humble you and it'll make you ready to go out there to preach the gospel.
28:55: But win people. Be respectful. Be gentle. One last thing and we'll get to it just quickly, just some common arguments.
29:03: So, and I hope they're watching. I know you are. Errol? Jocelyn? We love you.
29:12: I know you're watching, Errol, because you say you watch me all the time. So, hi, Errol. So, a good example is over the last couple of months,
29:20: Planned Parenthood in Tempe has been coming out to try to stop what we're doing. They had a certain point where these death squirts were actually blasting music and cowbells and they were even playing messages from Anton LaVey from the
29:36: Satanic Temple. I mean, it got to the point where they were doing more damage to Planned Parenthood's business than we were.
29:44: But it was nothing but hostility, nothing but difficulty. They really wouldn't talk with us and even have a real meaningful conversation.
29:53: They just ignored us and just blasted stuff and cowbell and all the rest. Well, we finally had an opportunity over the last couple of weeks, maybe two or three weeks, to finally get them to stop with the noise, stop with the just mindless, crazy noise and just meaningless noise, and let's talk.
30:12: Let's have a conversation. That's why we're here. And so we did. Those conversations are up on the internet for you to see and it went from as such a hostile relationship with these two wonderful people, actually, except for the issue of child sacrifice.
30:28: I really, I like them. But went from a place where there was just hostility and mean -spirited things being said about us and cursing us and saying nasty things about us on the internet to now we're having a gracious conversation.
30:40: We're actually having a respectful, loving conversation. I'm supposed to have dinner with Errol and Jocelyn sometime in the near future.
30:50: When the people, not the arguments, it's not about winning an argument.
30:55: It's about this person needs Jesus. They need to be forgiven. We want them to know that we truly have love for them.
31:02: That's the thing I think we have to recognize. When we got to these abortion mills, you had better make sure that people that are there, as much as it's possible, as much as it depends upon you, you have to make sure that they understand that you love them, that you're motivated by love.
31:19: They have a picture of you, a caricature of you already walking there. They think you're nuts.
31:24: They think you're dangerous. They think you're, they do think you're crazy. They think you're, and many times, an awful excuse for a human being.
31:32: They've said all these things to me. And so when they show up there, they have a portrait of you in their minds. Don't allow them to maintain that false caricature of you.
31:42: Tell the truth. Don't placate to their sensitivities. Always tell the truth, but make sure that you communicate with grace, with love.
31:53: Make sure you tell them how much you care about them. If you can't do that, you don't belong in an abortion mill.
31:59: Because if you go to an abortion mill and you bring shame to Christ's name, you're damaging our mission.
32:07: So make sure you get your heart right and love people. So let's talk just quickly about a couple things that are objections.
32:13: Number one, let's address these quickly.
32:19: The Christian. The Christian's objections, the professing Christian who objects to this ministry, they will say it's not loving.
32:29: It's not loving. Well, there's a couple ways you can handle this. What you could say is, well, God commands it.
32:37: That's the death blow, right? Well, Proverbs 26 says, specifically, to rescue them who are being led to the slaughter.
32:46: And so I'm actually just trying to obey God. God commands it, and so I'm trying to do that. What are you doing in response to Proverbs 26?
32:53: It's a good thing to ask somebody. What are you doing in response to Proverbs 26? I'm trying to love them.
32:59: It says, it's not very loving to the women. Well, it's good to ask this question because it's really the thing that gets forgotten in this.
33:05: When Christians say, it's not loving to the women, what I like to say is, how did we forget about the child here?
33:12: It's not loving to the women. Well, we're not talking about her right now. She's the one that's gonna walk out safe.
33:20: I want to know, what about the child? What's loving to the child?
33:27: Jesus says, love your neighbor. That woman is my neighbor, and that child in the womb is my neighbor.
33:34: What does love demand of me? It's primarily loving to rescue someone who's being led to the slaughter.
33:41: When somebody says, it's harsh, it's a harsh ministry, what they're saying is, well, you're not being very much like Jesus.
33:51: And what that displays is that they are the product of 21st century Western evangelicalism.
33:57: Because if you look at the ministry of Jesus, Jesus had moments where he confronted people in their sin and told the truth.
34:04: He called one of his personal followers, somebody he was intimate with, he said, get behind me,
34:09: Satan. Kind of a sharp word. He also had words to the religious establishment of his day.
34:17: Matthew chapter 23 is not the meek and mild Jesus we learn about. In most churches in America, the
34:26: Jesus of Matthew 23 is a Jesus that tells them that all the blood of the righteous, from Abel to this last prophet, is going to be upon this generation.
34:38: He says things like, these are the days of vengeance. Jesus says things like, woe to you.
34:44: Woe to you. He says, you're a whitewashed tomb. Jesus has words for people who are not walking in accord with the truth.
34:53: And John the Baptist, by the way, good example, in Matthew chapter 3, when he breaks into his ministry, he says, first words out of his mouth, by the way, in Matthew 3, is repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
35:04: His first word in Matthew 3 is repent, which has particular presuppositions.
35:12: It means that you're doing something wrong and you need to stop, turn away from it. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
35:18: There's more. John the Baptist also says things like, brood of vipers. Who warned you to flee from the wrath about to come?
35:26: The axe is already laid at the root of the trees. Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. See, this is what biblical prophets do.
35:33: They tell the truth. When someone says, you're being harsh. Harsh?
35:40: Because we go to an abortion mill and tell them, please don't murder your child. There's forgiveness in Jesus Christ.
35:47: We'll adopt your baby. We'll give you food. We'll give you money. We'll give you shelter. We'll give you anything you need.
35:53: Please have mercy on your child. Harsh? I think harsh is actually knowing that's taking place in your community and closing your eyes to it and saying and doing nothing.
36:05: That's harsh. That is mean -spirited. That is unkind and unloving to your little neighbors.
36:11: When you know what's happening and you do nothing. When they say it doesn't help. It's not a helpful ministry.
36:17: What they're displaying in that moment, and be gracious to them, what they're displaying in that moment is that they have no understanding of what actually is taking place.
36:25: When someone says it's not helping, be respectful and gracious to people who are
36:30: Christians and asking these questions. What I tend to do to people who are professing Christians that attack our ministry,
36:36: I have a simple way to handle it. First and foremost, I ignore most trolls in the Internet, which is basically the entire
36:43: Internet. But I have a way I like to handle this with professing Christians.
36:49: This is what I do. I have at the ready a number of pictures of babies that we've saved.
36:55: Some of them are pictures of me holding the baby. So when someone says I don't think it's helpful. I think it's wrong.
37:01: I think it's unloving. Don't go to the abortion mill. What I do is no comment. I just put the picture in a thread.
37:08: If they make another comment, I put another picture in a thread. Another comment, another picture in a thread.
37:14: Why? I'm trying to show here's the fruit. This is the fruit. And what
37:19: I often say if they want to continue discussing, if I think it's worth it and beneficial to even have that discussion, is
37:28: I'll say, well, we went and so Carmelo was alive. So should we have not been there?
37:36: What would have happened if we weren't there? We went, Christians went, and Olivia Grace and Cara are alive now.
37:44: Twin girls saved a Planned Parenthood Tempe. Here's their pictures. So should those Christians have not have been there?
37:51: Should these girls be dead? Now that'll get people who are professing Christians thinking. And like I said last night, you've got two methodologies that are being debated.
38:00: One is go and the result of lives, the result is lives are saved. The gospel is preached.
38:07: We're talking in the hundreds. The other methodology is say and do nothing, right?
38:13: Be pro -life in your church and vote Republican. And ask the question, how many babies have you saved?
38:18: It's not wrong to ask that question, by the way. It's not haughty in any way. We're talking about the lives of children here, and you have somebody attacking this ministry, name in the name of Christ.
38:27: It's a worthy conversation to have. Say, let's do it. Let's talk about it. Two methodologies suggested, mine and yours.
38:33: How many babies have you saved? How many with your keeping silence and being pro -life in your heart and head?
38:42: How many women have you preached the gospel to in light of abortion?
38:49: How many women do you know who are considering abortion that you communicated the love of Christ to and you offered to serve and help?
38:57: How many babies have you actually offered to adopt with your methodology? Do you see the point?
39:03: So communicate that to professing Christians. Let them see it. Let them hear it. Now, let's talk about the unbeliever.
39:11: Well, you guys already, I'm speaking to the choir for some of you guys. You guys are the veterans. Many of you guys could be up here yourselves, but you all know these are the common arguments.
39:21: What if she was raped? Now know this, that when that argument is used, it is very effective and it's effective for a significant reason.
39:33: It's effective because we're in the image of God. It's effective because we know as Christians, what?
39:41: That rape is absolutely wrong. As a matter of fact, in the Bible, God says that the punishment for rape should be the death penalty.
39:49: That's how serious God is about rape. God, watch, God values women so much more than our modern culture.
39:57: Modern culture, you have people that could rape women and be out in six months. That's the truth. That's the truth.
40:04: God so values women and prizes them and sees so much value and dignity in them that if somebody rapes a woman,
40:10: He says that's capital punishment. But when someone says, what if she was raped?
40:16: Know this, that they're appealing to emotional argumentation that they don't have any right to. Because if they reject the
40:22: God of the Bible, they have no basis to complain about rape. So notice when someone brings up the rape challenge in the context of abortion, they are pulling on your
40:32: Christian heartstrings. So what you ought to do as a Christian is get underneath it.
40:38: When someone says, what if she was raped? It's good to ask this. What's wrong with rape?
40:44: They say, what did you, what? What? What do you mean what's wrong with rape?
40:50: Well, tell me. I know why I think it's absolutely wrong. I think that people who rape women should get the death penalty, but I want to know why you think rape is wrong.
40:57: What's wrong with rape? Can you please tell me? Where do you begin? It's a violation of another human being.
41:04: It's doing things to their body that you don't have permission to do. It's taking liberties with their body that you ought not to take.
41:12: You say, thank you for that wonderful pro -life argument. What's wrong with rape?
41:24: In principle, is the very same thing wrong with abortion? Same thing.
41:31: And so expose it. And here's what we say when someone says, what if she was raped? That's an awful, awful, horrific thing.
41:38: We want to come aside every woman who has ever been raped and love them and care for their needs.
41:44: But I can, I can share with you the stories of children who were conceived in rape, who are actually adults now and would ask you, please don't kill me.
41:55: You see, at no other time in our judicial system do we suggest giving capital punishment to children of criminals.
42:03: You don't kill a child because their father is a criminal. And so communicate that.
42:11: What if there are birth defects? And now we're in a very dangerous, slippery slope.
42:18: Who defines what is too much deformity? Who defines what is too much of a defect? There are people in this room right now that have what we would call deformities or defects, health problems, handicaps.
42:30: So it's a slippery slope to start saying, well, we can kill children based upon their birth defects. Well, where's the cutoff?
42:37: How much is too deformed? What is too much of a birth defect to not be worthy of life?
42:43: And I'll say this, I do believe that children who are handicapped deserve to live.
42:51: So what you could do is just do it in a punchy way. I mean, someone says, what if there's a birth defect? You should say, yeah, I don't think we should kill handicapped children.
43:02: Don't kill the handicapped kids, please. Do you have another challenge for abortion?
43:10: Like, what if there's birth defects? All right, so kill all the special ed kids. Right? And this is an amazing thing, and I mean this sincerely, just, it's a, it's a, it's a soft spot for me, this one.
43:24: When I was 18, I moved out to Arizona, finished high school out in Arizona at Gilbert High School, and I had like two or three classes, credits that I had to do.
43:34: It was so stupid, public school. Oh, goodness. Totally, like, three classes, didn't, and there's, like, just come in and do these classes, and they were all electives.
43:46: So it was like, you're gonna be a theater arts assistant, and they were like, and this assistant, you need one more, and they had, they said, oh, we have a special needs class, you can be an assistant too, and I said, that would be awesome.
43:58: I'd love to do that. So for my last part of my high school, I was an assistant in a class with severely handicapped students.
44:06: Severely handicapped children, teenagers. I mean, these were, these were kids that had to be carried around the classroom.
44:15: These were kids that could barely speak or communicate. These were kids that were so severely handicapped, and in many ways deformed, that it was, it was hard to even manage.
44:28: We had to change their diapers, and these are like 16, 17 year old kids. And so when someone says to me, what if they have a birth defect?
44:37: What if they're gonna be deformed? That's a soft spot for me, because I've cared for some of these amazing human beings, and I'll tell you this,
44:43: I don't want to murder them. I don't want to kill them. They deserve to live as much as I do.
44:50: So what if there's birth defects? So your argument is, kill all the handicapped children, right?
44:57: What about incest? Same line of reasoning. What I typically say is,
45:04: I know people who are products of incestuous relationships, and I don't think we should kill them. And that's the truth.
45:12: What if she is poor? What if she can't take care of her children? What if she's poor?
45:18: What if she can't care for her kids? Okay, so your argument is, kill all the poor kids.
45:26: You might say, well, that's just simple. That's because it's foolish. That's because the argument is utterly foolish.
45:34: Answer the fool according to their folly. They're using an emotionally based argument. What if she's poor?
45:41: What if it's going to be hard? Okay, so if life gets hard, if you hit a moment of financial difficulty, kill the kid?
45:52: Well, what about this? Let's change the scenario. What if we're not in the womb now, but we're, say, three or four years old, dad and mom lose their jobs, and we hit a moment of financial difficulty?
46:03: Do we give mothers and fathers now permission to kill two and three -year -olds because we lose our jobs?
46:09: Well, Johnny, dad got laid off today. Can you imagine?
46:22: But that's the form of argumentation. Here we go. My body?
46:29: You've been there. Okay. My body, my choice. Now what you can say in a playful way is, congratulations.
46:36: And they say, congratulations for what? Well, it takes a certain level of skill to do what you just did.
46:42: What do you mean what I just did? Well, you just set the clock back so far that that's actually a skill.
46:48: Congratulations. Whatever do you mean? Well, that's exactly the argument slave owners used for their slaves.
46:56: My property? My choice. I get to determine what's life and property on my property.
47:05: You don't have any business here. Here's what's this. Ready? Don't want an abortion?
47:11: Don't get one. Congratulations again. These are the same exact arguments used during the time of slavery in the
47:18: United States. They said, my property, my choice to have a slave. And they said, of course.
47:26: The same thing about the slaves. They owned them. They owned them.
47:33: They were their property. My body, my choice. Don't want a slave?
47:41: Don't get one. You realize, of course, these were the arguments. They said exactly these things.
47:47: You don't want a slave? Don't get one. It's just a fetus.
47:56: Some of you guys know how I respond to this one. Say, why don't you just please speak
48:01: English? What do you mean? Well, fetus comes from Latin. It referred to the newborn offspring of a creature.
48:09: It referred to essentially a small child. And so you can feel free to speak English here.
48:15: Okay? So it's just a small child. It's just a baby. And I say, no, no, no.
48:21: It's a clump of cells. It's just a cluster of cells. And what you could say is, and so are you.
48:28: A very complex structure of cells. But actually what it is in the womb is all the biological components of a human being.
48:35: From conception, the only difference is the difference of degree. Change over time. I gave you guys the sled argument.
48:41: Memorize it. Know it. Because most of the arguments that you'll get outside of the abortion mill, when it comes to very bad argumentation for abortion, comes down to those areas.
48:50: Size. It's small. Level of development. Environment and degree of dependence. I'll just do this quickly.
48:57: Excuse my nose here, guys. It's barely hanging on. Size. It's really, really small.
49:04: It's not fully developed yet. Well, I can introduce you to my eight -year -old. He's not fully developed yet.
49:11: He's very small. My wife is also very small. Right?
49:17: Is she in danger? Can we kill human beings because they're not big enough? Next is the level of development.
49:26: Not fully developed. Neither are one -year -olds, neither are two -year -olds, neither are five -year -olds, neither are nine -year -olds, neither are ten -year -olds.
49:34: Not fully developed yet. When do we kill human beings because they're not fully developed?
49:42: Environment. It's inside me. It's dependent upon my body for support.
49:49: It's dependent upon me for support. And again, another example is, do we need to have a baby?
49:55: Do we kill children based upon the different locations they go in and out of in the home?
50:01: So it's in the womb, so we can kill it, but not over here. Environment determines, and so you can ask the same questions
50:09: I asked last week to the ASU students. When somebody says, well, it's dependent upon the life support of the mother.
50:17: Okay, so therefore we can kill it. So what you can say is, okay, so if any human being ever has to be on life support, we can murder them.
50:27: Right? That's the standard. If they are dependent upon another human being, we have the right to kill them.
50:35: Is that your standard? Ask those questions. Answer the fool according to their folly.
50:41: Next is the final thing, degree of dependence, dependent upon another human being, the mother.
50:49: It's good to point out to people that we will all be dependent upon other human beings throughout our lives at different stages.
50:56: Listen, my eight -year -old, my 12 -year -old, my 16 -year -old, and my 17 -year -old are still dependent upon me for their survival.
51:05: Some more than others. I'm going to stop.
51:11: I almost had a joke to tell there. I'm not going to do it. Okay, but at the same time, as we go over this curve in life, when we get to the end part of our lives, don't many of us fall into a place at the latter side of our life where we are dependent upon other human beings?
51:28: At the small stage, dependent. At the final stage, dependent. So you can say to the pro -choice advocate, so your argument is degrees of dependence mean we can kill them.
51:41: And when do you stop? Why do you choose in the womb and not when they're one, two, three, or four?
51:48: Because here's the thing. It's a slippery slope, isn't it? Don't people talk today about post -birth abortion?
51:57: Isn't that a conversation people are having? Because to be consistent, you would have to be. Next. I should be able to murder my child.
52:10: I should be able to kill my child. Here's the answer for that one.
52:15: Repent and believe the gospel. That's the problem. And I just want to say it.
52:22: The problem of the pro -life movement in trying to convince people that it's a human being is that they already know it's a human being.
52:28: They already know it's their baby. They already know. And you can convince them all day long that it's a human being.
52:35: And what they're going to say ultimately at the end of that conversation, because of where they are truly at with God, is I have a right to kill my baby.
52:42: That's why we need the gospel. That's why the pro -life movement will never end abortion. Ultimately, in a way that is meaningful or glorifying to God.
52:50: Because the problem of the heart still remains. You see, watch this. I believe this.
52:55: If America stopped abortions tomorrow, no more abortion.
53:01: We still haven't actually accomplished what God would call us to in this Holocaust.
53:07: And that is the proclamation of His lordship and salvation in the midst of it. Our nation needs to repent.
53:15: I don't believe, and I mean this with all my heart, I don't believe that if we, what the pro -life movement suggests, just simply stop committing abortions, that we're fine.
53:27: Because we've got 60 million babies deep that our nation needs to repent over.
53:33: I don't believe we're going to miss the judgment of God and the wrath of God in our nation simply by stopping abortions.
53:42: There has to be national repentance and God, please forgive us of our sin.
53:48: We have to consider that because it's significant. It's about the gospel. They don't need to be convinced that it's a child or a human being.
53:56: They believe they should be able to kill it. Read the accounts of the abortion doctors. They say,
54:02: I know it's a baby. I'm killing a human being. They're not saying, I'm not sure what it is.
54:09: Many of them say, I know it's a child and I'm killing it. Some of them give them funerals. They do.
54:18: Okay, final points here. We'll have time for more questions later you guys can ask.
54:24: I'd love for you guys to share your testimonies later too. 30 seconds. You give
54:29: Christians the microphone. It's a dangerous thing. Let's start back when
54:36: I was one. My father, well, let me tell you about my father real fast. When he was born, you ever done that going to a church service, right?
54:47: Everyone's in there and like, praise the Lord night, praise the Lord. He gets to get the microphone and the guy stands up, the weirdest guy in the room.
54:53: About to give praise to God. And then it's a 35 minute testimony.
55:01: It's always hard to manage that. One time I had a guy stand up at a praise prayer night thing.
55:10: Whoo! He stood up, Pastor Jeff, Pastor Jeff, I want to thank the
55:17: Lord for letting me take that man's wind. Yeah, that's how we were all like, you took some man's wind.
55:24: He was praised. He wanted to thank God that he socked a guy and took his wind. How do you recover from that?
55:32: I don't know. So what I'm saying is don't do anything weird like that when we open the microphone, please.
55:38: Because Marcus will shut you down. Okay. Okay, the legislature. The New York Post and the
55:44: Metro UK did an article on me recently. They called me an extremist hipster.
55:51: They said extremist hipster wants to execute women who have abortions. Very provocative title.
55:58: It's wrong. I'm not a hipster. And I also personally don't want to execute anybody.
56:12: That's not my jurisdiction. It is actually the government's job to uphold justice and to punish evildoers.
56:22: Not my job. But, there are challenges that arise in this entire conversation.
56:29: Here are the challenges. People will say, I want abortionists, I want them punished, but not moms.
56:36: Mothers who actually have abortions, I don't want them punished, just the abortionist.
56:42: And when someone actually hears our position that we believe that it's murder and it should be punished by the state as murder, they often say, ah, that seems harsh.
56:51: Really? You believe that? Or the unbelievers actually think that our position is obscene.
56:57: Obscene enough to write articles against me saying extremist hipster actually wants to execute women who have abortions.
57:05: That seems so provocative. But let's ask the question. It really is surrounding two things.
57:11: Two things are happening there. And really, that's it. Two things. One, is abortion murder?
57:18: So in the conversation when someone says, oh, that seems super harsh. Well, there are two things to talk about.
57:23: One, is it murder? And two, what should the penalty for murder be? That's all that's happening there.
57:31: Now, if you talk to the Christian who disagrees with punishment for abortion, you have to ask them those two things.
57:38: Just two. One, is abortion murder? And two, what should the punishment for murder be?
57:48: It surrounds those things. And what do we have to do to answer the question? Well, I would say go to God's Word.
57:55: What does God say consistently from Genesis to Revelation, the entire spectrum of the
58:01: Scriptures? What does the Bible say consistently and all the time? When a person murders another human being, what is the righteous punishment from the state for murder?
58:16: Life for life. That is from Genesis to Revelation. If you murder another human being, the just penalty from the state ought to be life for life.
58:28: And, by the way, over 30 states in our Union still say that capital punishment is a just answer for murder.
58:37: Now, somebody might say, as a professing Christian, here's the thing.
58:46: We're no longer under law. We're under grace. Well, I would say
58:52: I would point you to Romans chapter 3 where he says, do we then make void the law through faith?
58:59: God forbid. Actually, we establish the law. That's what he says.
59:04: But I would further point you to the Apostle Paul. Somebody says, no, after Jesus and his ministry, we're not concerned with that at all.
59:12: The law of God doesn't apply here. God's standards don't apply here. We're not even concerned in any way with those things as Christians.
59:18: I would say Romans chapter 13, the Apostle Paul says that the civil magistrate, the government, the state is
59:25: God's deacon, his servant, his servant, to do what?
59:33: To essentially uphold justice and punish evildoers. So, God's ordained institution to handle justice in a society, watch, post -cross, post -resurrection, post -ascension,
59:47: Romans 13, looking back at the cross, it's already done. Jesus is already on his throne.
59:53: Paul says today, in the Christian era, the government is God's servant to uphold justice.
01:00:00: Now, real fast, whose servant is the civil magistrate? Tell me again.
01:00:08: The true God or some other God? In Romans 13, the inspired, the inspired
01:00:15: Apostle says that the state, the government, who upholds justice is
01:00:21: God's servant, his servant, to serve the true
01:00:26: God. Now, the question is, is what is God's standard against murder? Life for life.
01:00:33: If you take somebody's blood, shed somebody's blood, then your blood has to be shed. That's essentially harmony brought through that.
01:00:40: Now, there are more challenges that come to this. We have to talk about it. And that is this, too. The Apostle Paul, when he was in trial, he was being brought up on charges, essentially being called a lawbreaker.
01:00:51: In the book of Acts, go read it later, the reference Acts 21 through 23, read those chapters there to get the context.
01:01:00: When the Apostle Paul after the death of Jesus, the resurrection of Jesus, and the ascension of Jesus, when he is brought up on charges, they're essentially bringing him up now to condemn him.
01:01:10: He says this, after the cross of Jesus, after the resurrection, I'm stressing it again so you get it, in the
01:01:17: Christian era, he says this, if I have done anything worthy of death, then
01:01:25: I do not object to dying. He says, with Jesus on his throne, with salvation now broken into history, before a judge, if I've done anything worthy of death, worthy of the death penalty, then
01:01:43: I don't object to dying. Now, I would suggest this. This would have been a premier moment for the
01:01:51: Apostle Paul to say something about that. To say, oh, you don't understand guys.
01:01:57: You see, we live in the Christian era now where God's not concerned with justice. We live in the Christian era now where there is no death penalty.
01:02:04: We live in the Christian era now where we're not concerned as a church for these things. He actually says, if I've done anything worthy of death,
01:02:11: I don't object to dying. Because God's standards are unchanging.
01:02:19: Now, consider for a moment now, this is really important guys, consider for a moment now the convoluted thinking within the church at this point here.
01:02:28: We say abortion is murder, but I don't want women to be punished for abortion.
01:02:34: Now, by the way, what do we say about that? We want every woman to know Jesus Christ. We want every woman to be forgiven of their sin.
01:02:39: We want every woman to be washed. There are women in this room today who know Jesus, who have had abortions, that are forgiven and God will never condemn.
01:02:48: He will never hold your sin against you. You are washed and you stand in the righteousness of Jesus Christ. That's the truth.
01:02:55: But when someone says, I believe abortion is murder, but women shouldn't be punished for it. They're showing the contradictory nature of their thinking.
01:03:03: Ask them this question. Do you believe that people who say rob someone's home in the middle of the night, should they be punished by the state for theft if they're caught?
01:03:17: What do Christians all say to that? Yep. Do you believe that if a man breaks in someone's house and violates a woman, say another man's wife, should he be punished for rape?
01:03:33: What do Christians say? Yes. So we do what we notice this. Christians say, well, you know, it's murder, but we want these women to know the gospel.
01:03:42: We want them to be forgiven. Well, I do too. Me too. But I also know that God is still concerned with justice.
01:03:51: Take this example for a moment now. You have a guy, he's running down the street at 930 at night.
01:03:58: You're sitting down with your friends at a coffee shop and all of a sudden this guy comes running up and he dives into the coffee shop and you're like, what's going on?
01:04:07: And he's like panting and he's panting and he's breathing and he's like, I just stole something from someone's house.
01:04:12: And now the police are after me. And you're like, oh man, let me share the gospel with you. You need to know Jesus and this is sin.
01:04:18: You need to be forgiven. This is what Jesus did. And all of a sudden right there you have revival in the coffee shop and this thief comes to Jesus.
01:04:25: Turns to Christ right there. Turns and receives Christ, puts their faith in him and now that you put your arm around him, you're hugging him and all of a sudden, whoo, whoo, cops show up.
01:04:37: Cops show up. They walk up to the coffee shop, they see the perpetrator and they come in, guns up and they're ready to arrest this guy.
01:04:45: Do Christians go, halt! This man is saved.
01:04:53: Do we do that? Do we say to police officers, officer, officer, you don't understand.
01:05:00: This man has totally turned to Jesus. What do we do?
01:05:05: We recognize, we say to the thief, hey man, like you're in Jesus now and you're forgiven of all your sin. But this is an institution that God has ordained to bring harmony.
01:05:14: You got to make this right. You got to face now the justice for your crime.
01:05:19: You're forgiven of all your sins and God's never going to condemn you. But this institution is here by God to bring harmony.
01:05:26: You got to face justice. Do you notice that, the contradiction? Christians recognize in all these other areas that when there is a crime and a sin like in these areas, that there is forgiveness of sins, the church proclaims that, but the state has to also keep harmony and bring justice.
01:05:45: And in the area of abortion, you have Christians that'll say it's murder, but I don't want the woman to be punished.
01:05:56: So here's the questions you ask. Okay, is it a human being? And the Christian says what?
01:06:03: Yes. Is it murder? What do they say? Yes, if they're consistent. Now, watch.
01:06:08: Here we go. What if they say no? They're professing Christian and they say, no, it's not murder.
01:06:15: Then you ask this. Okay, if it's not murder, then why do you want it stopped? If it's not murder, then why do you want it stopped?
01:06:25: And what does God call it? Now, if they say yes, it's murder. It's a human being and it's murder.
01:06:31: Then you ask this question. What does God say the punishment for murder should be in his word from Genesis to Revelation?
01:06:37: You only have one answer there, brothers and sisters. Someone says, but we're not under the law.
01:06:43: We're under grace. Bible says, do we then make void the law through faith?
01:06:48: God forbid. Paul says, if I've done anything worthy of death, I don't object to dying.
01:06:55: Now, somebody says this. That's not the role of the church.
01:07:01: It's not the role of the church to speak into these areas. Well, I would point people to Matthew chapter 28, verses 18 through 20.
01:07:14: Jesus says, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
01:07:22: Therefore go, make disciples of all the nations. And what's he do? He says, teach them to do what?
01:07:27: To obey. Teach them to obey. So Jesus doesn't have some authority.
01:07:33: He's not waiting for authority. He has what? All authority. Where? In heaven.
01:07:39: And every Christian today goes, and that's it. Right? All authority in heaven and where else?
01:07:45: On earth. And so the church has the duty before God to speak the word of God and his standards of justice into the realm of the civil magistrates so they know what is just before God.
01:07:59: And we can have an entire discussion, but we're ending now, an entire discussion about the Bible says about the kingdom of the
01:08:05: Messiah and the justice that will bring and the law of God and all of that. But it's important to note that the person who says it's not the role of the church to speak into this area, listen, they don't really believe it.
01:08:20: They don't really believe it. Proof is when somebody, watch, when somebody steals their car stereo, these
01:08:29: Christians are dialing 911 because they believe that there should be justice for crimes.
01:08:38: When somebody breaks into their home, they call the police. When somebody assaults their child, they call the police.
01:08:46: They want justice. When a person says it's not the role of the church, what they're really saying is
01:08:52: I don't really believe that it's murder. I don't believe it's an image bearer of God and I don't want to do anything about it.
01:08:59: When they say it's not the role of the church, because we recognize from the scriptures that it is the role of the church to speak prophetically to every area about the authority of Jesus Christ.
01:09:11: By the way, this is important. When we say it's just a, it's just a quip.
01:09:16: It's like a t -shirt now we wear. Christians just say it. They say it's about the gospel, man. Just preach the gospel.
01:09:23: Just preach the gospel. People say stay out of politics and just preach the gospel. What's the heart inside the gospel?
01:09:31: What is, what is the heart? It's, watch, the declaration of the lordship of Jesus Christ.
01:09:38: Do you understand that, watch, it says in Matthew when Jesus destroys
01:09:43: Satan in the wilderness, lays the smackdown on Satan in the wilderness, defeats him, right? It says that he's going forth doing what?
01:09:51: Proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, the rule, the good news of the rule of God, the good news of the rule of the
01:10:01: Messiah. You got to capture that. When someone says just preach the gospel, I say
01:10:07: I am the authority of Jesus Christ over every area. Preach the gospel, that means talking about Christ's full authority.
01:10:16: That means talking about Jesus as Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Inside the gospel is not simply a private relationship between Jesus and me.
01:10:27: The gospel is the proclamation of his full authority and you better repent in a hurry and believe in Jesus.
01:10:34: Preach the gospel. Within preaching the gospel is proclaiming to every area of life that God has standards that he calls you to obey.
01:10:45: Final word on this, Psalm chapter 2. The Father says to the Son, ask of me,
01:10:50: I'll give you the nations for your inheritance, the very ends of the earth for your possession. So that means the whole world.
01:10:57: Everything belongs to Jesus. It's all his. But then the Father says to the kings of the earth, be wise.
01:11:06: Obey the Son or you'll perish. So there is the command of God to the kings of the earth to obey
01:11:14: Jesus or they'll perish. The Word of God needs to go to every area of life.
01:11:23: If it's murder, then we have to have an answer for it. What is the just penalty for murder?
01:11:30: So that's what the Bible says. What we need to do is speak to our state legislatures and say that's a human being. It's murder to kill it.
01:11:38: You guys need to figure out how to handle that. You guys need to figure out how to respond to mothers and fathers who pay assassins to chop their boys and girls into pieces.
01:11:51: And by the way, this really is the final thing I'm going to say here because I got to go. Change the conversation.
01:11:58: Do you understand that unbelievers, people who are the part of the pro -choice movement, that they have crafted very specific language to fight against you.
01:12:12: You know, you can almost say it before them, can't you? Like when Hillary Clinton goes up and talks about abortion, she says, we believe that that decision should be left, come on now, help me, woman, her doctor, her family, her
01:12:27: God, her pastor, right? It's like it's the same line. We believe that abortion should be safe, rare and legal, right?
01:12:36: You see? You got it. That's the language. And they say, well, what if she was raped? We think, you know, what about rape?
01:12:43: That isn't amazing. They use what is the less than 2 % of all abortions.
01:12:50: They go for the examples that are the most uncommon for abortion to have abortion on demand.
01:12:57: That's very precise language. They say fetus, all these things.
01:13:03: Change the conversation. Use the proper terminology. Tell the truth. So when they start saying fetus, say, you mean baby?
01:13:11: You mean a human being? You mean a child? When they talk about abortion, you say, you mean, you mean murdering a child?
01:13:18: When you talk about what takes place in an abortion mill, you may not like it, but you need to use the right terminology.
01:13:24: How do you talk about abortion? How do you talk about it?
01:13:31: I think you should describe what's actually taking place. Cutting the legs off a little boy.
01:13:38: Cutting the heart out of a little girl. Cutting the head off a child. Taking a body and destroying it.
01:13:47: Breaking this child into pieces. Cutting this baby into pieces and putting their body back together again on a tray.
01:13:55: You mean that? What they do in there is health care. Health care? Health care for who?
01:14:02: Health care. You mean dismembering and decapitating a little boy? Health care?
01:14:09: That? You see, what we have to do as Christians is take ownership of the language.
01:14:16: And can I just say a word on this in terms of changing the conversation? Did you notice the last election? It was fantastic.
01:14:22: Did you notice how many people were calling abortion murder? Wasn't it awesome to see
01:14:28: Chris Christie in a debate with the Republicans? The governor of New Jersey say murder?
01:14:37: Murder? Many people in the pro -life movement won't even use that word.
01:14:43: And the governor of New Jersey called it murder. How about Milo Yiannopoulos?
01:14:50: Milo was on Joe Rogan and he said boldly, it's murder.
01:14:56: Murder. And they're proud of it. Murdering their children is disgusting. It's disgusting. He said murder.
01:15:03: Here is a professed homosexual calling it murder.
01:15:09: And here's the governor of New Jersey calling it murder. We're living in strange times.
01:15:18: Here's why it's super strange, uber strange. Because we're having the hardest time getting the leaders in the pro -life movement to say it's murder and ought to be punished as murder.
01:15:29: Change the conversation. Take back the conversation. Call it what it is.
01:15:35: Murder. Dismembering a little boy. Dismembering a little girl. Here's the thing. They have crafted their language in a very deceptive way.
01:15:44: All we have to do is simply tell the truth. What we're saying is not deceptive. It's just the way that it is.
01:15:51: That's their version of health care. Change the conversation. We can go on and on and on and I would.
01:15:59: But that's just a small smattering, a touch on a few things. We have Q &A in just a little bit here guys.
01:16:04: You guys can ask questions and I would like, I'm gonna talk to Marcus about this. I'd like for you guys to be prepared just for quick testimonies about how
01:16:12: God has used maybe our ministry to help you and what
01:16:18: God has done. I want to hear these stories. Some of you guys have already been sharing the stories of babies saved. I mean if you would just some of you guys maybe just one person from your group be ready to grab this microphone and just share a quick story about how
01:16:29: God has used you. I'd love to hear it. Okay, sound good? Praise God.
01:16:34: Thank you guys for hanging around for this long session. Let's pray real fast. Father, thank you for the time we had together
01:16:40: Lord. I know that it's a blitz God and there's so much more to learn and be prepared for.
01:16:46: I pray that God it was a blessing to your people and you will continue to use it in Jesus name. Amen. Thanks for putting up with my nose guys.