Should White People Personalize Black on White Violence?

at at some point is there a transition point where White christians can say it seems like i'm viewed in this society as the villain in every single encounter

And in every single encounter I go in i'm viewed as a villain like particularly white house, right? so They're at the bottom of the intersectional hierarchy and as individuals who are at the bottom of the intersectional hierarchy

Where there's not going to be riots in the street There's going to be no one getting your back here. It's going to be like you can just literally get beat up on the internet

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And Welcome to the bible bash podcast where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions

You're not allowed to ask. We're your host harrison kerrigan pastor tim mullet and today we'll answer the age -old question

Should white people personalize black on white violence? Uh now tim what

I mean, what what's the purpose of asking a question like this? Can can white people personalize black on white violence?

Yeah, sure. So I mean if you're on social media to any degree and then it's almost impossible to avoid seeing almost like daily new videos of Like groups of black people at times beating up white people, you know, so like this is just a daily

Phenomenon to where I probably see multiple videos like this every day. I'm just You know a lot of times like the the worst ones are uh when the white girls are getting beat up or whatever um, but then it's it's, you know white people, uh,

I mean sometimes like you you see news stories of just uh, I think last week

I saw a couple of these like news stories of just white women walking down the street and getting punched by random black people and So you have to so i'm basically just asking a question.

How should white people? Respond to that kind of thing. Like is there any sense in which they should personalize it in that way?

Or is that just is that just like reduced to tribalism ethnic partiality? Us versus them kind of mentality like what is behind all that?

So basically, it's just a discussion like how should white people respond to that? And because i'm a quarter mexican then, you know,

I guess only 75 percent of myself is uh Is capable of identifying with white people to any degree so then uh the other 25 percent

Helps me to be objective, right? We're gonna be leaning on we're gonna be leaning on that 25 today then

I guess As an ethnic as an ethnic minority i'm uniquely qualified to answer this question uh, you know, um without being charged with being racist, you know, you know, what's what's amazing with that is is

You know, you're a quarter mexican Even your mexican blood is a minority in your in your own body 25 that's right

So this is 75 percent of myself is oppressing the 25 the other 25 percent so i'm, actually like worse like uh, i'm i'm uh,

I i'm uh, I i'm worse than normal oppressors because i'm even part of your own self

Well, the other thing I was gonna say is you know it just to try and preface this kind of conversation is

You know, we we both have a black friend different different black friends. So That that that absolves

I always have that from any kind of racism that that people might think that we're you know partaking in we we're not because we each have a black friend, so I went to an all -black school once I was a white.

I was a white guy on the basketball team So, you know, i'm i'm uniquely qualified to that was when that was the time when you're 100 a minority, you know

Instead of just 25 percent of minority Uh, okay.

All right, but now that now that we've set aside all the qualifications for that and we've we've explained um, why we feel we are qualified to speak on a subject like this

You married a mixed girl. So you're I mean We've got several we've got several

No, that that just means that i'm allowed to now speak on all these subjects um

Anyway, all right. All right. We said we've qualified why we feel uh, we are uniquely qualified to Talk on this subject now that we've set that aside and they can no longer be questioned

What is the you know, what is the answer? I mean, how should we? View the because I see them too.

I mean I see them all the time. I mean, I there is one a a pretty disturbing one, um

Probably like a month ago, maybe a little less than that now uh where a high school a high school girl just got destroyed by by a black girl who was uh, you know who

I think was much bigger than her and And ended up hospitalizing this girl and I don't

I don't think I ever saw I mean, they're they were wondering if she was gonna live They didn't know if she was gonna live or not and I I don't know if she did or not.

I never really saw a follow -up on it, but It was a disturbing I stopped watching it because it was just it was so upsetting to see.

Um, and you know, so so I understand that and i've seen a lot of people not necessarily christians, but people online who um

You know who have really started to take all these videos and say hey, you know

You know what? You know why this happened? You know, I mean that like they're they never outright say they never outright say it but then the underlying assumption that they're that they're making obvious the people who are commenting on these videos is like Hey, it's you know, it's because they're black and we're white and that's why this happened, you know, and so so Yeah, so it is a valid question.

How do we how do we as christians look at all these look at all this and I mean

It's not like it's an insignificant data point, right? It's not like this is something taken out of context or anything like that.

And so um Yeah, so like it does seem that there is quite a lot of of violence.

Um Quite a lot of violence from black people pointed towards white people and so we have to We have to ask ourselves.

Hey, what do we do with this? Especially when you're constantly being fed news stories um

Where the opposite is allowed to be said, you know, so you have like the george floyd thing where It's just it's put everywhere and you can't avoid it and you know exactly what's going on and And you're being told that the reason this happened is because white people hate black people um, and and they essentially send the guy to prison on like on like the worst you know

Like with with terrible evidence. I mean it it seems like everything I remember watching the trial and thinking everything is pointing towards he's gonna

I mean he's he's not going to be chart like the charges are going to be dropped because It it what he was just doing what he was supposed to do that's what all the evidence seems to suggest and then they send him to jail anyway, and and george floyd becomes this, you know sort of icon of um, and you know an example of like white on black violence particularly with the police uh towards towards black people and so So then the question does be does become well

Hey, does that mean that when it happens the other way we're supposed to view it the same way or are they?

Are they wrong in in trying to present people like george floyd in the way they are, you know?

How does all that how does how does all this work from a christian perspective? So so what are your thoughts on that tim?

It's interesting. So part of even trying to address a topic like this is to talk about the issue of like black solidarity versus white solidarity and Think through I mean you do have to think through issues related to Like part of this is like is race a real thing there's like a is race real kind of discussion here there's like ethnic partiality there's a

Identity who we are in christ kind of thing then there's these terms I just said like black solidarity, which is allowed and then white solidarity, which is like racism, you know you know, and then you have like the things you're talking about where Like if there's one incident

This is part of what like why this is even an important question to ask is so I mean you have like like the ahmad asbury kind of Case or whatever.

So you have one instant like that That's like national news and there's writing and everything else when you have like a an instance of like white on black

You know violence Basically, you know like the trayvon martin stuff like all that kind of stuff like that's national news.

There's Looting rioting Everything else but then you can just watch on the other end of things like a criminal justice system like the media and justice system, whatever that just seems totally uninterested in The opposite, you know, so white girl gets put in a coma.

No one cares, right? It's not national news Nothing's happening with it. Uh, no one's like very few people

Like I mean you just have like case after case after case of these kind of things happening And it's nothing, you know, the media doesn't care about it doesn't feel a narrative and so but then the issue is it's just like These are statistically

Way more likely to happen than the ones that everyone's writing about and so everyone can just I think there's a sense of which you look at this like massive imbalance in media portrayal and You know anything happening things happening alongside you say hey something's messed up here, you know

So there's obvious whatever's happening there's just a like a a lot of ethnic partiality going on related to Even reporting it.

I mean if we're even we're asking this question and we're asking this question in a climate where We haven't even given an answer yet But then we're like everyone is predisposed like if the like people look at this question, they're going to think

That we're racist for even asking the question, right? So you're in that kind of climate right now where if you say hey this is weird

Isn't it a little bit isn't a little bit weird that like a white person after white person after white person can beat up get beat up by Like mobs of black people

Online there's video evidence of it and literally nothing happens. There's no protests. There's no national news.

Nothing is happening and we have like video after video after video After video of this kind of stuff happening and on the other end of it

There's like we're told that there's just this massive like racial problem in america where Like black people have to be afraid for their lives everywhere they go.

But then There's like no video evidence of all this Stuff happening, right?

Like it's just like very rare like like once every couple years. We'll have one video service

Whereas this is just like there's a hundred hundreds of videos, you know Of the opposite And we see them, you know, and we have eyes and what are we supposed to do with that?

you know, so I think part of us that so as but as I said I'm part of this like related to a discussion about like racial solidarity like is there such a thing as racial solidarity and I could um

First let me give you an example and then I want to read some definitions Okay, or I want to read some chat gpt responses because this is funny.

Um, so it's funny to me but um, yeah, I mean I think if you if you imagine yourself in nazi, germany because I want to go ahead and Prove that internet law by like the longer discussion goes on eventually you're going to get to a reference to hitler in the holocaust

So let's go ahead and just step into that But I mean just imagine you're in nazi germany You're a jew or whatever and leading up to that you start noticing that like jews keep on getting beat up by the germans, right?

And like let's just pretend like this is in the age of social media or something like that. So we're you know Importing an anachronism into our analogy here, but imagine that like there's tiktok twitter videos

Whatever every day of a new jew getting beat up by germans And there's nothing like that comparable on the other side, right?

There's nothing like that. Like there's no videos of jews getting together and beating up germans. It's just one way

I imagine that So if in you would ask well, should the jew personalize it? Like it like that's kind of the way we're asking like should it be personal?

I would imagine at a certain point you would think this seems to be About hatred towards me as like my type of person, right?

So if like you watch video after video after video of it At a certain point it should dawn in like dawn on you like that like this is um, these people don't like me

And I could be next and my kids could be next and um It seems like I have a target on me in that way and so like like just I mean at a certain point there should be some kind of realization that there's something happening right like uh, and so and then noticing that I don't think noticing that is like racist or tribalism or It's just a simple kind of self -protectiveness of living life in a fallen world and realizing that man this keeps on happening to people like me right um and Like so is it directed towards me?

Specifically what seems like it's it there's a sense in which maybe yes, right?

like like a sense in which maybe that this is This is personal.

It's not just like abstract, right? Yeah. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, all right

So like like the idea of black solidarity is is I think it's a term that's meant to cope with that kind of reality

Right, so I I asked jet gpt is but is a black solidarity. Okay, and this is what this is what jet gpt said

Uh, so it says the concept of black solidarity often involves a sense of unity and mutual support among black people

Aimed at overcoming racial discrimination and achieving social justice This kind of solidarity is considered not only acceptable but also essential by many and outside Outside of black communities for like the idea is for addressing systemic issues of inequality and promoting positive change

So black solidarity can manifest itself in various ways including social movements cultural affirmation community support programs advocacy advocacy for political changes it serves as a means for Collective empowerment and can contribute to broader understanding of challenges faced by black individuals

Furthermore, it can foster resilience and provide a platform for voices that might otherwise be marginalized

Notice all the buzzwords there it's also important to recognize that solidarity movements including black solidarity must operate within the balance of respect for all individuals and groups and emphasizing inclusiveness and The promotion of equal rights for everyone.

So so that's a good thing in their mind. This is that's a good thing That's a good thing positive definition yeah, and I mean

I think I think there's some there's some aspect of that where if you were if you if you pretend like like black people are

Jews living in nazi germany, then there's some kind of hey, like we're being attacked here and we got to figure out how to Respond to this kind of thing, right?

um And that that's somewhat understandable in a certain way now I asked it the other way. So this was so I did one

Little chat gp thing for black solidarity and then I did one for white solidarity and it gave you another positive definition, right?

Yeah. Yeah, so, uh, it's white solidarity Okay, the concept of white solidarity can be quite complex and is often context dependent.

Here are a few different perspectives so number one criticism of racial solidarity concepts

We start with the criticism of of the idea of racial solidarity, right? So the idea of racial solidarity including white solidarity is often criticized because it can report reinforce racial divisions and perpetuate perpetrate inequality

The notion of solidarity based on race can contribute to segregation and hinder efforts towards inclusive societies that value diversity

So it's like Step one. This could be harmful, right? uh number two support for racial equality and justice in some context individuals who identify as white might organize and act in solidarity support racial

Justice inequality. So if they're advocating to support racial justice and equality, which means like giving up their privilege, right?

So basically this involves recognizing and using their societal privileges to advocate for and support changes that benefit

Marginalized communities in this sense the term solidarity refers to allyship and support for overcoming racial injustices rather than Solidarity based on their race.

So basically the idea is like let's talk about how all the ways in which this could go bad And then like the only way you're allowed to like the you as a white person are allowed to have solidarity with each other

It's to recognize that you're privileged and then you need to give that privilege Use that privilege in such a way as to empower marginalized voices and so as you think about like this the way that this actually works is that You do have a like a huge double standard here, which is basically the idea that whites are oppressors blacks are the oppressed.

So then Black people as an oppressed group can stand together in solidarity and try to fight for their you know

Equality of outcome right? And then white people on the other hand if there's a sense in which like they band together

Then they're doing that as members of a privileged community that are using their power in order to keep

A brother down, you know, basically so this is That's the way it works. So white solidarity dangerous bad black solidarity good, but then

I think if you look at what's happening though, I mean i'm basically asking the question like what what i'm trying to ask the question is is just to say that well you think about what's actually happening if you have hundreds and hundreds of videos that video evidence of White people just basically being like targeted and beat up for no reason and you have all these like is there at at some point is there a transition point where White christians can say it seems like i'm viewed in this society as the villain in every single encounter

And in every single encounter I go in i'm viewed as a villain like particularly white house, right? So They're at the bottom of the intersectional hierarchy and as individuals who are at the bottom of the intersectional hierarchy

Where there's not going to be riots in the street. There's going to be no one getting your back There's going to be like you can just literally get beat up on the internet

And no one cares, right? And it seems like you're getting beat up because you're an easy person to get beat up, right?

like like is there any sense in which like white people can say hey i'm a member of a

Dis despised and hated majority group who has less rights than everyone else has in my society and like there's a sense in which you can just recognize in some neutral way that you're

Under attack as a particular group of people and I would say yeah, I mean that seems to be overwhelmingly obvious like if you

You know like you as a parent you should be telling your kids If they're white male kids

Like you're you're gonna have to work harder than everyone else It's going to have to work in order to get ahead in this world because you're not going to get scholarships based on your race

You're you're going to get excluded from jobs based on like your skin color, right? Nothing this i'm not validating the concept of race.

I was saying based on your skin color You're going to get passed over by jobs. You're going to get passed over by you know scholarships

You're going to get passed over by everything else. Everyone in this society is going to Is free to discriminate against you right and view you as the villain in every single encounter

And you should know that right? You should know that because our society hates people who are like you and the reason now obviously that's not like just a

Serving a self -protective end in itself But I do think you can bring the gospel into that meaning like the issue is that we're a guilty nation

And you're the scapegoat, right? And so what's actually happening is we're living in a society that like hate like it's just filled with guilt

And they're trying to fix that no matter And whatever way they can and they've labeled you as the villain in every encounter.

So that may mean that you're Yeah, you go into scenarios like that and you just get beat up And no one's going to care about it and it's not going to be the same and you're not going to get

The jobs and whatever else like that's because you're viewed as the villain in every encounter

So I do I do think like I do think it's important for christians just to be able to recognize

These things that are happening. I don't think a person should develop like a victim complex to where they're filled with bitterness and I mean that's

I think that's the only answer the world has is just to get bitter and be bent out of shape about it and You know ultimately who knows what'll happen like maybe like we're gonna have a race war pretty soon or something like that You know, and I think that would be concerning but I don't think the answer to all that is just to deny

Reality, right? Does that make sense? So yeah I mean,

I think as christians you should like there has to be some Like if you're if you're looking at the if you have eyes in your head and you see what's actually happening

There should be some way for like people with white skin color to say. Hey Yeah, it seems like we're the

Particularly if you're a white male, you're the villain in every culture. You get no intersectional points everyone view like you're gonna um,

No one's gonna take your side in any encounter, right? Again, you're free to get beat up man, you know, so be smart uh, you know, but don't let it turn into bitterness don't let it turn into uh,

Like just understand where it's coming from Uh, and I I think those are just important lessons that people have to be able to say at some point and there really doesn't seem to be anyone who

Is able to say it and the people who are saying it? I mean, I think they they come across like they have a big chip on their shoulder and Uh, and that's unfortunate.

Okay. Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation on and Yeah, like I said, this is something that i've seen over and over again online and um

You know and and so there is a question for us is like yeah, how do we how do we respond to these kinds of things?

without you know without um Mourning the way the way the world mourns.

Yeah, I don't think having You know giving over to despair and like hopelessness or something like that But and I don't think

I don't think the idea of like white people developing in a whole identity I would just say this like I don't think that like the idea is that you should develop an identity that's hey

I'm a white person Therefore i'm going to stand in solidarity together with white people and it it's just like for us by us and like I mean,

I think that a lot of the black like the black the idea of black solidarity. There is like a sense of Hey, if if you really are persecuted minority, like, um

Trying to recognize what's happening and advocate for change all that stuff is fine But I think it does turn into ethnic partiality really quickly

And tribalism very quickly and I think a lot like, you know for it fubu, you know all that kind of You can certainly end up Yourselves with a lot of people that you really shouldn't ally yourself with as a christian, right?

Yeah, I mean your fundamental identity is in christ that's who you are your fundamental identity is christian

But I do think that it's possible to say. Hey, yeah, I think that uh Like the world is operating in these categories and uh, you seem to be fair game, you know in that way and just like I I I do think if there's a mild way to answer a question like that is a

Is every time you see one of those videos should you should you think hey, this is personal a little bit

It's like well that it seems to be you know um, so and I think it's okay to acknowledge there's some kind of personal animus towards people right like you

Uh that that exists in the world, you know without it turning into just you know out and out tribalism

Uh to where there's you know segregation and everything else so I mean I do think all the all the things chat gp said about the dangers of White solidarity applied both ways.

Yeah, right Uh, I mean and without the social justice lend on it

Yeah, that's like the problem are that this concern into tribalism and segregation and everything else I don't think that's a good but at the same time.

I don't think that there's any way you have a cohesive society where You have the media setting

Different groups of people in opposition towards each other and giving people free passes to perpetrate, you know violence on people

It just it it won't end good, you know, so we definitely need to be praying for country and people that That they can keep a level head and they need more people who are just willing to say hey this has to stop.

Okay Well, um, yeah that I think that is a good place to wrap up the conversation on and certainly

You know, we we want to encourage people. Yeah I liked what you said about you know not giving into despair hopelessness the same way the world does bitterness the same way the world does because We have a hope and we have an identity and that identity

Ultimately is in christ, right? And so so um and so we can't lose sight of that, but Uh, we we do want to thank all of you guys for supporting us week in and week out we want to thank you guys for listening to the podcast for um interacting with us online for Supporting us through all the various all the various ways.

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