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Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.
Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.
If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 866 8 5 4 6 7 6 3. And now with today's topic here is James white.
And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line. I guess it is 2 o 'clock in well in Arizona. Anyways, I guess in the Mountain West. It's 3 o 'clock now, but we won't discuss the strangeness of the mountain time zones and Daylight savings time and all the rest that silliness.
We get so many complaints from people who come into into the chat channel. What timer does the program start it used to start at 4 now? You've changed it and we always good. No, no, we haven't changed anything.
Actually. We always start at the same time. Well my clock changed and say well, we don't play with time here. We leave our clocks alone and we figure time is something that God created. We shouldn't mess with it.
We shouldn't play with it and Besides that the one year we did it it was like a hundred and seven degrees and bright outside at ten o 'clock at night in July which just it makes it very difficult To sleep really when you think about it.
So it's two o 'clock and I'll tell you this day has flown by. I Wanted to get a little more preparation done here. But I got into channel and there was someone in channel that for some reason I just I I just really felt compelled.
I needed to talk to this person concerning their disregard for Christ Church and the fact that They were not in obedience to the Word of God and that pretty much Took up the entire time I had for preparation.
So Maybe we should fill the phone lines at eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one eight seven seven seven five three Thirty three forty one that would help. Because otherwise that we did get I'm sure I didn't see them, but I'm sure We got all sorts of requests for Warren and I doing doing a duet together and I was thinking about maybe some some Elvis tunes or something along those lines and to avoid that and Believe me you want to avoid that.
Vote vote by calling if you call eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one. You can keep that from ever happening ever Taking place on the face this earth. That'd be it. So there whoa, that was quick.
That that was almost immediate that someone someone did that I don't I don't personally take that that personally. But I'm sure that Warren does because he's been waiting for a long long time For this opportunity of hitting the hitting the big time and right Warren Did you see how fast someone called in as soon as I said that that yeah.
Yeah. Well, you're warming up. I thought I heard something but I couldn't tell if it was the My air conditioning going out and screeching or just just what it was You ain't nothing but a hound dog that we're gonna do.
Okay. All right, that's X.
I'm.
Sorry, I'm just kidding. Actually, I do have some stuff here that I want to take a look at. We already have a caller. And I don't know who it is because I forgot to click on The right person here so that I can see stuff.
So if anything has been sent to me by the person who knows I'm talking about you as to who's online I didn't see it. So try it again.
Mmm.
Okay, that's interesting. Anyways. Which I don't think I'd anything to do with my threatening to sing either. But I do have some stuff I want to get to as we work through callers and do things like that.
I have in my hands today two Huge books. I mean these things. These things are massive.
And.
Let's see. How many pages is is this one? It's thick paper, so it's a seven hundred and eighty-eight pages hardback. This is Lawrence Vance's the other side of Calvinism. This is the book that's That Dave Hunt certainly relied upon a lot in the writing of what love is this But I've heard it quoted many many times.
I finally have the revised edition of this thing and I wanted to look at some things in there. I found it fascinating and Then my goodness we have filled the phone lines that is absolutely fascinating.
Could keep that one in mind for the future. But but I think Warren may be moving to Alaska. I'm not sure anyways, and this next one is 801 pages which includes the index Good old Dan corners the believers conditional security Combine these two babies together.
You've got over 1 ,500 pages of pure Man-centered theology, that's what we have here pure man-centered theology, and I was gonna look at some passages in here. The term exegesis does not seem to be known by either author as to actually dealing with the passage it is both of them provide a tremendous example of Really the the mirror image in Evangelicalism quote-unquote of the far right of Roman Catholicism.
No, what do I mean by that? If you've ever talked with a a Roman Catholic who is just Absolutely gaga about Mary and the Pope and all the rest of stuff you discover very quickly that any passage of Scripture Can be utilized to suggest that the passage of Scripture Substantiate their beliefs it could in its original context its original language be absolutely positively irrelevant but It can be used it.
There will be a way to find it tradition becomes such a massive lens through which You see the scriptures that that's what happened now. We've all seen that with Roman Catholics but that happens with evangelicals too and It is a little more frustrating because at least the Roman Catholic admits the role of tradition and you can address that the evangelical says I don't have any tradition and yet they do and hence are enslaved to it and Hence they can sit there and and we've been watching this in channel recently as some of you are in channel know that in the apologetics channel There has been someone coming in that uses the nick Arminius to now I think I know who this person is he refuses and when I say are you such-and-such a person?
He says no comments that pretty much tells me the absolute Anthropocentrism the the focus upon man and the complete willingness to sacrifice.
The.
Entirety of God's freedom to sacrifice God's will God's power to in essence make God completely and totally subject to the creature is so central To to this person's thinking that we sit there and and and you you look at the responses that are offered to pastors scripture and you just.
Eventually, you just take a deep breath and you shake your head and and you just go how? What is operating here that that could cause such blindness what's exactly what these books are filled with. Absolutely filled with and it's extremely frustrating.
It's it's extremely Difficult to get into any kind of meaningful discussion, but that's that's what happens and so. That's that's what these books are all about there's another book. I want to highly recommend to you as well.
I had mentioned it once before but I had finally had the opportunity because of Some issues come up. In fact, I suppose I should let you know Where's my Do-do-do-do-do-do there it is. You know, you got all these books sitting all over the place and they're sitting on top of your handspring visor professional.
Which is very very very nice handspring visor professional. It has 128 megs of Ram in there half of the 16, you know, sixteen hundred one hundred and forty four and you know, that's really really cool.
Anyways. Getting it out here to give you a specific date. We have finally locked down a date. Everyone is always Blah blah blah yourself. Everyone is always Yes, I I saw both of those. Thank you. Everyone is always complaining that I never let people know what in the world we're doing.
And when we're doing it and especially the people get really upset because I just did a debate, you know. Like 20 miles from where they live. They didn't know about it and things like that and I I am bad at that.
There's absolutely no no defense against that accusation. So just to let you know so that people are aware in. Let me see here. Oops. It's the wrong selection there in.
October.
It's actually gonna be November 1st 2nd and 3rd for those of you that are down in The Florida area Tampa specifically, well Florida let's just stay fairly wide there down, Florida first and second of November we are going to be having the debate.
We thought we'd be having Actually this coming weekend is when we thought it would be or maybe past weekend I don't remember which now is gonna be but anyways The debate that we moved because no one was going to be at RTS when we were there but the debate with John Sanders on the subject of inclusivism and open theism and So you might want to put on your calendars.
It's gonna be that weekend. I'll probably don't know yet It hasn't worked out probably preaching somewhere on November 3rd as well. So those of you in the Florida area November 1st 2nd and 3rd You want to put those on your calendar and then those of you in the Texas area and I think this is specifically the Fort Worth area, Dallas Fort Worth.
It's a Suburb of Fort Worth, I believe it is called Countryside Bible. Countryside Bible Church is the name and the 15th 16th and 17th of November I will be there speaking. I know that some Ian Murray is going to be there and Some other names are escaping me at the moment.
There's gonna be people actually worth coming to hear there and it's not including myself in that so that's gonna be a big thing at Countryside Bible of the the weekend of the 16th 17th of November and then I'm gonna be back in st. Louis doing a full seminar on the Subject of the Trinity the 29th 30th and December 1st remember 29 30th and December 1st.
I will be in st. Louis and That will be coming up as well, so November's gonna be really busy and Of course fun part with all that is I teach Monday nights this coming semester. And so I think a bunch of times I'm just gonna have to have Warren come by and pick me up at the airport on the way to class bring my luggage with me.
And it'll be it'll make for a real interesting interesting class when I'm suffering from jet lag. You know flying back from Florida or something like that. That'll be that'll be most interesting. But anyway, so those things are coming up as well and don't forget July 11th for those of you in the New York, New Jersey area.
That's a week from this Thursday debating Patrick Madrid on the subject of.
Veneration of Saints. And I know that a lot of folks have expected that we would have my itinerary on the website. We've always done that in the past. I don't have an itinerary. I don't know where I'm going to be.
So I haven't been able put it up. So there's really just nothing I can do about it. If I get one before I leave then I can put one up, but otherwise we just won't have one this time. There's just nothing I knew about it, I'm just gonna sort of show up and and Talk basically wherever I'm told to go.
So I I'm sorry I can't give you an itinerary as to where I'm gonna be because I only know a few of the places I'm gonna be. I know about the debate and then I know about the last week Weekend, I'm actually gonna be up in the sort of Boston area.
I think somewhere up in Massachusetts anyways and The rest of us could be on Long Island. So You know, we'll see See how that all works out and then Hoping maybe that there might be something going on up in Oregon as soon as I get back from Long Island.
But I haven't heard back on that thing yet. So I really can't make much mention of that. Also have been asked to tell you that we should start adding more selections to the mp3 section on the website this week a Number of people have been asking about that a number of people saying hey, there's only one thing available boy.
We sure would like to be able to get everything else you have in this way.
You know, all I can say is It ain't my job, man. I Know whose job it is, but I'm not gonna tell you who it is, but you can sort of guess so you can just send email to whoever else works here, but isn't me and Say hey, why aren't we having more mp3s up there and you know, he'll he'll probably just ignore that.
But anyways, so those are some of the things that are going on, but we already have two folks online believe it or not. And.
I.
Think I would like to think that both folks called because they just simply have interesting questions and we're just waiting to do so to see if maybe the subject matter would be Open today and not that they were voicing their choice.
Not to hear Warren and I sing the Elvis's greatest hits. Randy was afraid that I was gonna sing.
Okay.
Well, I can understand that but I've gotten some emails from Randy and what I'm afraid is is that when we bring them up? Randy's gonna sing. That would be the greatest fright so you guys stay on the stay on the knob out there it's sort of like because I don't have the little button you can push it just sort of you know dumps the collar because Randy's a Little bit on the different side.
Okay, and he's kind of guy who would start he'd start with Elvis. He really would just to prove that he can do it better than I can so we just need to watch that. So anyways, but we won't bring Randy at first because he may just just Do that.
We'll talk to Carson first. Carson you there? Hello James. Hey, how are you? Good to speak with you?
Was gonna ask you a question about Columbia Evangelical Seminary. Are you gonna sing? Well, I remember when you threatened to sing last time. So, okay.
But you're not not really a singer yourself. No, I play a little bit of guitar though and.
Actually, I Got saved about five years ago. And one of my brothers that led me to the Lord. It's kind of off the subject but his. His wife was in the key screen and she was. You know, I've been a Christian for years so actually I knew who he was and how you did.
I enjoyed.
Last week's program. Yeah, a lot of folks have have written I I suppose I should really really really thank Steve camp when you think about the fact that this guy is Standing there at the the luggage carousel with his cell phone in his hand pulling his luggage off of The carousel while talking to us and walking through the corridors of the Minneapolis Airport, which I've been to a few times.
Absolutely amazing. Most folks would just say hey, you know, I'm just not gonna be able to do it. Sorry. But he didn't do that. And I thought he did a tremendous job and I thought it really went off. Well, so thanks for Listening to the program last week.
But anyways Columbia Evangelical Seminary we had Rick Wollstone on Rich Pierce interviewed him. I forget when that was maybe a year or so ago. Now. I don't know if you've heard that program.
But.
That would probably be a program to listen to if you want to address the larger issues. Yes, I am. I'm not really right. For a while I had to basically tell everybody look I'm. Since I was teaching Christian high school Every day, I just simply couldn't Take any more students.
It was just impossible to do. So and a lot of folks contact me and they say, you know, what about it? Basically, here's this. Actually I appreciate the call because it gives me an opportunity to sort of tell everybody the same thing at the same time.
Basically the the student who would want to have me as a mentor is a person who is a self-starter who does not require sort of a A scholastic nanny in the sense of someone who's going to be on them. All the time for the simple reason that I assume.
The reason that someone would ask me to be their mentor is that they recognize? That.
Very very much in the forefront of dealing with apologetic issues. I'm writing my 19th and 20th books at the same time. I've got numerous debate scheduled for the fall traveling all over the place and In light of that They need to see me as a as a source as a sounding board as a person to give them some direction.
But not someone who is going to be looking over their shoulder all the time going, you know. Did you do this do that do this etc, etc. And also someone who recognizes that there's sometimes that for example I have a student right now that just sent in a paper on in an Old Testament paper on the Graph Wellhausen theory and I'm really looking forward to reading it.
However, I leave Thursday morning for Long Island Speaking every Sunday all through July debates so on and so forth and I've had to tell him I won't get a chance to read. So I get back. Well, that's fine with him.
But some folks.
Might have some problem with that. I'm gonna be moving to the Phoenix area in.
October. Oh Well, welcome. That's a good time to come because that's when the heat breaks. Have you ever been through a summer out here before I've.
Been through. I used to long haul truck drive. So When I was there at like 6 30 in the morning in July.
Well, let me tell you something. It's one thing to drive through Phoenix when it's hot.
Glad to get out to help unload the truck. Well, there you go.
But it's another thing to experience that I forget what year it was. It was the year that I was. My family lived at our church and I was the groundskeeper and. That was the year that it hit 100 early May and it stayed 1990.
Was it 90? Yeah, cuz it hit 122 June 26th in 1990 that was the year that it stayed above 100 every single day for like a hundred and forty days and. After that period of time we started shooting each other.
Okay, I'm serious. So we just literally we. We literally started having all sorts of road rage and because everybody was just sick of it. And once you get into the end of July August to September, it doesn't cool down at night.
See right now. It's you know, the mornings are you know? I wrote almost 22 miles on my bike this morning outside and I didn't die. Because it gets down into the upper 70s lower 80s. Well here in a couple weeks.
We will have a few nights. I'm not trying to scare you away. But we just be prepared for the fact that we will have a few nights in August where the low temperature at 530 in the morning as the Sun comes up will be 93 degrees.
Brother, okay. So just just be ready and make sure that whatever you move into has really good air conditioning.
Okay, and I wanted to tell you that um, we'll probably be coming out to see you do Sunday school. That's a Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. Well great and I'm looking into taking classes at Columbia and I just a year and a half ago is when I I made the switch from Being non-reformed to reform that it was the Potter's freedom that did it.
Well, thank you very much.
I've heard that from a lot of folks and it never ceases to amaze me that the Lord would use a Old fat ugly bald guy like me to to be blessing to folks. But that's that's how he does things and I'm hoping the book I'm working on now Co-authored sort of well not co-authored co-authors where you're both working together.
The debate book that I'm writing with Dave Hunt will likewise help folks to see God's absolute freedom and the the sovereignty of his grace. It's a it's a beautiful truth.
Well, I wanted to see nine hours of debating really but.
Well, I hope I still hope that happens. I recognize that that's not overly probable right now. But you know If the Lord wants to happen he's gonna work it out and I'm gonna keep making sure that people know that's.
That I want to see that happen because I think it has its place. It has its use. It really does.
Well, and I came out of Calvary Chapel. I was actually that. Well, it's called Applegate Christian Fellowship, but he Is basically a Calvary Chapel. He's been with Chuck Smith for years. He used to teach at his Bible college.
His name's John Corson I don't know.
No name doesn't ring a bell. No pretty big down in Southern, California I see because he's on Calvary satellite and all that. Well, I really wish I honestly did now. Are you in Southern, California? No right now.
I'm in northern or southern, Oregon, Southern, Oregon. Do you know where Vernonia is?
It must be up north.
Okay, Vernonia, Oregon sort of smack dab in the middle actually that's where possibly now we just haven't heard anything back. But possibly There might be a debate on Roman Catholicism the first week in August.
It's sort of up in the air right now I hope it happens but I Looked on a map and it's a it's 57 miles from Portland. Oh, I would be there. Well, we'll try to let everybody know the problem is I'm not sure Maybe rich can tell us is it is it still our plan to do?
Rich is listening as I'm talking about this. Is it still our plan to do pre-recorded programs through July until we get the server issue? Okay, so if we did pre-recorded programs, I suppose we could add an announcement about a debate once it gets set up At the beginning and let people know we could put on the website just just make sure to hit the website once in a while and You know, we'll try to let folks know.
It's gonna be pre-recorded Warren's greatest hits. Oh great. I'm sure everybody's gonna be listening for that. We'll make sure people, you know, it's at least on the website if that debate Takes place so we can get a chance to meet you and see you over there and get all the folks around Vernonia that metropolitan city there in the middle of Oregon together.
Okay, man. Okay. Looking forward to it. All right. Thanks a lot. God bless. Look forward to meeting you. Okay. All right. Bye-bye. 877 -753 -3341. 877 -753 -3341.
Only see one more light and you folks need to understand once the last light goes out Warren comes busting through the door and I think right now he's pasting his long sideburns on even now he has the the white.
The white pants. Oh do it. I do not want to see you practicing the the the hip thing Warren. It's that's that's. No no. Excuse me for a second while I try to get that out of my mind. All right. Mm-hmm.
Let's go to our next caller. Okay, you guys ready in there on the on the button because this is Randy. Okay, Randy. You know, he might actually be very good none of us really know.
Don't want to find out. You don't want to question is do you have air-conditioning in your spare bedroom because I want to move to Phoenix.
Well, if I had a spare bedroom believe you me it would have it because. Basically, there is nothing out here that isn't air-conditioned or at the very very very very very least Swamp-cooled which in August is is not really the term cool is sort of irrelevant at that point.
But it's about 95 in Denver here, too.
It's according to my little little weather bug thing with Bobby here, which I actually shouldn't have up because it takes up some of our. It's a hundred and seven degrees right now here in Phoenix and.
But this is a nice part. Seven percent humidity in the dew point of 30 degrees. Yeah, I figured that I said. I did make the connection. That's why I was worried you might sing.
No, it's only poetry. It's not. It's not a lyric. No, I. I took a look at it and went.
Okay, and then I had to go back to work.
But I appreciate the humor. Well, it is it is unusual. Yeah, but but do you have the recent stuff. Well, you know, I'm gonna order some of it. I got inspired yeah abandoned the God and.
Mercy in the wilderness. Those are the last two and they are really really good.
Well, I Tim I've never seen. That's got a logical position. I didn't like except well, anyway, well, oh you're kidding me. Blasphemous heavy metal. Yes. I pledge my head to heaven. Oh, you're kidding me.
No, I can hear I can hear the laughter out of the next room right now.
Wow, really? So this is this is heavy metal. Well, I do hear a guitar.
Oh.
That's what it is. Okay. Over your body. Oh, that's all right. Well, we do have a connection there. It's done. Oh my oh, you mean the Hayes way? Yes. Do you think you think he'd debate me? Hey, hey, I don't know probably not.
That doesn't sound like like Jerry would be happy about that. Well Jerry.
Oh No, it doesn't ring any bells. Actually. Didn't you miss that one? I miss that one. I'm sorry.
I did do a bunch of radio in 93 when I was in Denver for the debates with Jerry Matta. Take.
Okay, I don't remember who so is he. Is he getting ready to.
Because I think I think most these guys eventually will Just out of consistency have to deny that God has exhaustive knowledge of all present. I think that's the direction that logically they have to go and many people are making that point so far.
They have not Done that but I can tell you what I want to pursue that after this break because I was just told That while Warren is cooling his jets Rich is going to start singing if I don't take a break soon.
So I'm taking this break and then we'll come back to Randy and your phone calls at eight seven seven.
Seven five three thirty three forty one. We'll be right back. The history of the Christian Church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith. Once the core of the Reformation the church today often ignores or misunderstands this foundational doctrine.
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More than any time in the past Roman Catholics and evangelicals are working together. They are standing shoulder-to-shoulder against social evils they are joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements and Many evangelicals are finding the history tradition and grandeur of the Roman Catholic Church appealing.
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Org this portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God. The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church.
The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day. The morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And the worship service is at 10 45. Evening services are at 6 30 p .m.
On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix. You can call for further information at 602 2 6 grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at PR BC org where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.
Everybody always asks me what music is that? Well, it's John test stuff some of his early stuff. If you're actually wondering about that you're listening to the dividing line. My name is James White and on the phone from the second most burned over state in the West Colorado.
Yeah, well that we did to. That now remember the lady was out hiking and saw a news helicopter Circling the rodeo fire and decided to signal it with the signal fire and started the Chetis guy fire. Hey, there's.
Whoo, but I wanted to be a hero. That's right. That's right. But before we get to open season, can I give you two little potter's freedom things? Ah, yes. Okay, one is of course I did get my my autographed copy.
Thank you for that. And the weird thing is my chosen but free. Well, there is a little spring device. We've been installing but let's not talk about that. But hey, no, I have a former student of mine.
Actually, I never had him in Bible. He was too young. I had him in a reformed position, which was a great joy to me.
Yeah.
Well, I've gotten. Sadly we could unfortunately multiply the number of examples of that the the power of tradition and.
The the response that you get at the presentation of something that is considered to be contrary to that tradition is Truly amazing. It is we had a situation like that just today and channel in fact, but You got to trust, you know, I'm so thankful for that little quote from Spurgeon and that is that he spoke of how Christ's sheep will not be scandalized by Christ's truth and That's what you got to hold on to.
You really do. But anyways back to open the ism. Yes I did for a while. I think I mentioned to you once The time that I went and the how disappointing it was, you know, anybody who does have it.
Did you get a copy of the current issue because I think you'd find it useful before your debate. I can certainly track it down. Yeah, the June 2002. They they there's in Boyd. Yes, that's very useful.
You're thinking on that. I also have the Good good. Excellent. And my well, I'm recommending. One other one would be a profit. No, I haven't. Heaters stays in there. What was what was the old Providence?
Okay, and that would be okay. It's called problems repair.
How does God work in the world by Terrence L Tisan that it is published?
By.
Where are all the details? Here it is university. Yep.
May 2000 by the way, I do. Thank you for putting up the. Well, we want to and will be making available.
A vast majority of our stuff in that form. Because that's the fastest way. It's it's also the easiest for us, especially for a small ministry. It's it's very difficult for us doing all the production of the tapes and things like that.
And for a lot of folks today and all they I know there's so many people take the Tapes and then go home and digitize them. Anyways, but I did you know. Yeah, you know I run around with an mp3 player in.
You know, I when I wrote this morning I had Stephen Curtis Chapman keeping me peddling at a high high rate of speed as I'm and it's on it. It's an mp3 player who needs something spinning around or turning or eating the tape or whatever.
Yeah, I got an mp3 player back there. So I do have one trivia question for you. I don't know the adult. Oh.
That was oh Supposedly the biggest church in the country. Yeah. Oh for some reason someone in the channel maybe can help me here. It was the they also gave A doctorate to a horse. No, I'm serious. They actually gave an honorary doctorate to.
No, it was to the the who was the guy that he was a real big fundamentalist writer. He died Number of years ago. He had a horse and Jack Hiles Church. It was Jack Jack Hiles's school is the one that gave Gail Rippling or her doctorate and.
Yeah, and they also gave Who is sore the Lord who's sore the Lord? Oh, yeah, say yeah. Right. I think so. They gave John R Rice's horse an honorary doctor as well. So if you want to have a doctorate, you know, that's the place to go.
That's right.
Well, I just saw that spirit. There you go.
Well, you know.
I'm not gonna say anything more about this at all. Well, it's been a it's been a while, but it's good talking again.
Alright, thanks for listening and Randy. All right. God bless. Eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one. Have you ever noticed I get quiet there for that's because I'm leaning over and I'm looking at my at my phone and I can see now sometimes I can't.
I can't always see. Because sometimes I'm not sure why the lights don't light up when it's on a certain line or Something like that, but I don't see any lights over there and in my little window here.
The way I talk to the guys on the other side of the wall. It's a completely blank. There are no insults in there. There's there's nothing and there's especially no indication of anyone on the phone and I do I think here the sonorous tones of someone on the other side of the wall.
Warming up because he would know this before I would. So that probably means that we don't. Well, there's Zeke. I can hear Zeke in the background. The Zeke is singing or is that Warren?
The walls not as thick as you thought it was. That was Warren harmonizing with Warren harmonizing with Zika. Did we just crash or something? I just we just got disconnected there didn't we? Anyways, I lost the chat channel there for just a moment.
Eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one is the phone number For you to get involved. Sky man's back in channel. Maybe he never left. I don't know but Oh, by the way, not that we really have any room for anyone left.
Before I forget because I'm gonna forget I'm gonna forget. This is pretty much the absolute positive last weekend. For the cruise July 1st is the absolute cutoff date. And so this is it. If you've been on if you've been on the fence if you have Have been thinking about it.
I know that someone in channel right now is trying to get in. We had the couple more people. Jump on board. This is it. If you want to get on the cruise at the 8th, I think it's leaves August 31st inside passage up in Alaska this is going to be the end the.
This is it. And so you need to hit our website and get hold of the folks by July 1st because that's when everything has to be in that's that's all there is to it and so I Would love to have you with us.
I'm looking forward to the Opportunity of meeting all sorts of folks that I've only talked to in various and sundry other ways. Maybe electronically or whatever.
It's going to be a wonderful time. I'm going to be speaking primarily interesting enough on The issue of open theism and the worship of God. So that's going to be what I'm gonna be talking about. There are other people who could be speaking on the cruise as well those that information is on our website.
You can see it. But this is going to be the last call for the this particular cruise. Anyways, I I don't know what the future holds but it's The only one that I know of is that's that we're gonna be coming up on is is this one so That's all someone couldn't make the cruise bummer.
I'm sorry to hear that. Anyways This is the last call. So I made that announcement. What else was I saying? Let's see. Oh, no, there's still nothing in that little window. There's nothing there at all.
Okay Warren you you getting ready over there. I Don't hear anything right now. So that must means he's all warmed up.
Was going to mention and I don't think I ever got around to mentioning. We have callers, oh. We do have callers. You guys just haven't told me about it. Oh. Oh, okay. Oh, oh, well. Oh, well. Mr. In-N-Out burgers on online.
Okay, that's good. Mr. In-N-Out out Target burger. I think is what?
Was trying to order a book of all while doing this and it and it did it didn't work. It said my it said my shopping cart was empty and my shopping cart was not empty. I don't like when it tells my shopping cart is empty when it's not empty.
But see rant see Randy should be happy because I'm I'm taking his on his advice. I'm getting that book. So that's that's pretty that's pretty neat. But anyways, we do have callers. So all the Warren Smith fan club stop writing me and complaining, okay you know, we're trying to as best we can but You know, that's just that's just the way it is.
And we also have oh We have another another call. So let's start with let's start with Johnny. Let's talk to Johnny. Hello, Johnny. I'm doing okay.
All right. Well, I have a question. I've been struggling a little bit on something because I remember it some time ago I told you about a debate that took place on the radio between two Calvary Chapel pastor.
Um, I.
Remember something about what was the topic or is it just sort of a general all over the road type thing?
Yeah, they talked about a lot a number of different things and. You know the typical apologetics of Tim Staples and just your amount. Yes. Okay, you know. You know Jesse likes quoting encyclopedias and somehow the church or something like that, okay but.
One of the things that they brought up on the show and this is where you come in on this because I'm not I'm trying to Find out on mm-hmm before Wycliffe was and the reformers. Mm-hmm. They think he's mentioned that and also where the ICD ROM that you got that I got free.
There's all kinds of books. They're defending the albigensis as well as at ox Christian, right? Where do we have two conflicting stories about what they believed?
Well primarily because of the the materials that are available to determine such things remember that when you're looking at any group that was in The minority in the past especially in the Dark Ages or or periods like that we basically are Recruit trying to recreate their beliefs on the basis of what their enemies said about them and It's not that you can't do that.
It's just that it's obviously not easy to do that. It's it can be very tricky and and obviously those who were for example when you look at Albigensians or Waldensians the churches of Piedmont Valley Groups like that first of all you can't assume that everybody in those groups believe the exact same thing.
I mean that would like that be like saying well as long as you're a Baptist that means that 1 ,500 years from now people can look at All Baptists and know exactly what all Baptists believed about everything if that's not the case.
So that you put all that together and the the problem is that you're trying to use a term Albigensians in a too broad of a scope. Were there Problems in systematic theology with various Albigensians. Well, I think you could probably make a good case that there was.
Does that mean that all Albigensians were heretical? No, and what's the main problem in our finding this out? The Roman Catholic Church was busy murdering them without mercy. That's the main problem. It's it's amazing to me that people can't see that as soon as you raise the issue of the the murder of innocent Christian people on the part of Roman Catholicism well, you know Calvin Burns Cervetus and to which I say well.
So much for the infallibility of Calvin, but also so much the infallibility of the Roman Church. So it's really it's a historical issue as far as trying to determine What sources have the most validity and and when you have?
Contradictions between what one Inquisitor said another Inquisitor says and so on so forth very little of their own Literary Production which was very small anyways has survived and so you're trying to build it on the basis of all sorts of different sources.
And that's why you get all sorts of different responses. Now one of the other reasons would be that during the period of the Reformation we could honestly say the Protestants had a Real reason to try to point to such groups, and I don't know that I point to the Albigensians.
I think you look at the churches of Piedmont Valley Valley in the Waldensians as much more of a likely group of individuals who would be orthodox in their beliefs and yet outside of the of the Roman Communion.
Than you were the Albigensians because they seem to be a more eclectic group, but in answer to your question. That's why you've got all the different.
You know all the different opinions. What about the portions? I don't I don't have the book on the screen right now and One of the things well you see the problem is were those doctrinal statements.
You know what you've got to look at is a is this a did this group have the freedom? To actually gather together and to create such statements freely or. Are these doctrinal statements that are that were produced by others about them based upon?
Confessions that were derived under torture and things like that. That's you know various councils would draw up Propositions to condemn heretics and would force them to sign these things well you and I would recognize.
That's probably not the best way of actually finding out a fair representation of what someone believed. But the question is is the source you're reading using something like that or. Well, but still at the same time where did they get it?
I mean there just wasn't that much literary output from those individuals that has survived to our time so that's those are stuff you have to weigh and You know one of the things to remember is is when people start talking about Will show me a pre-reformation Pre-reformation Church, you know the question the problem one of the problems.
I have when people do that we had somebody in channel Just last night doing that. From a different perspective, but when they're they say things like that. I want to meet we find out what they think true succession back to the Apostles would involve and I have said many many times that the only meaningful succession is if you are preaching and teaching the same things that The Apostles taught any other kind of succession is a succession of genealogy.
It's a succession that the Pharisees claim going back to Moses and I would think if we learn anything from the gospel accounts Lord Jesus did not teach us to have respect for that kind of Alleged succession when you when you disregard What Moses said don't claim to be Moses's followers.
And if you disregard what the Apostles said don't claim to be the Apostles followers. And so I like to find out why people are concerned about it first. And then if they've got a proper reason for it, you know, then we can look at what happened when?
Innocent the third sent papal armies that murdered innocent Women and children by herding them into a cave and lighting up a bonfire at the at the entrance that sucked all the oxygen out. So they all died and then to seal it up and and that kind of stuff.
Who were these people and why would Rome have wanted to murder them if they were not believing things that Rome felt were it was? Contrary to her beliefs. Does that mean all of them were Orthodox? No, of course not.
But does that mean that there were no people that believed? In a in a simple way the message of the gospel outside of all the accretions of Rome, of course.
James is the Coptic Church as far as I know has been accused of teaching the monophysite heresy and I spoke with a Cop a young man that I spoke to at work, but he no longer works with me in and out but.
His father was a Coptic priest. Mm-hmm, and I was very fascinated because I had I had heard the name Coptic. But I don't. I know that they're very liturgical much like, you know, Greek Orthodox and so forth.
Either but the thing that he told me that the St. Mark and he says that they were accused falsely of holding to the monophysite heresy. And that was never true. Is this the same situation as we have with the Albigensi?
Well, no because these folks.
Are still around to defend themselves and have at least some element of a of a Documentary history. Most of these other groups just simply never had that type of opportunity to be able to engage in self-definition.
As to you know, I've certainly been taught that the Coptic Church openly holds to a Position of defending monophysitism, but it's interesting that someone would say no, obviously they probably want to define it differently, but No, I wouldn't say it's necessarily parallel because as I said, they They can defend themselves are still around to do so unlike the other groups that in essence we can only derive their beliefs from what their enemies said and from Fragmentary other things that come from various sundry sources.
I only meant parallel in the sense that some people saying they were Evangelical in the sense of with the charitics. And when I look at the Coptic Church, I hear from history books Heresy and then I speak to a Coptic guy and he tells me no that was not true.
So I'm getting the impression that he was probably told by his Scholars or church or what? Have you that? No the Church of Rome accused us falsely. That was never true.
Yeah, well, I see I see what you're saying, but but since they're still around that's that's where I think the difference would break down. But anyways, hey Johnny gotta take a break. Thanks a lot for your call today.
God bless you and we'll be back on the dividing line. Eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one.
What is dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book chosen, but free. A new cult. Secularism. False prophecy scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism.
He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant. In his book the potter's freedom James White replies to dr Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply.
It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate.
James White masterfully counters the evidence against so-called extreme Calvinism. Defines what the reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers is the very one taught in the pages of scripture.
The potter's freedom a defense of the Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen. But free you'll find it in the reformed theology section of our bookstore at a omen org.
Millions of petitioners from around the world are employing Pope John Paul II to recognize the Virgin Mary as co-redeemer with Christ. Elevating the topic of Roman Catholic views of Mary to national headlines and widespread discussion.
In his book Mary another Redeemer James White sidesteps hostile rhetoric and cites directly from Roman Catholic sources to explore this volatile topic. He traces how Mary of the Bible esteemed mother of the Lord obedient servant and chosen vessel of God Has become the immaculately conceived bodily assumed Queen of Heaven.
Viewed as co-mediator with Christ and now recognized as co-redeemer by many in the Roman Catholic Church Mary another Redeemer is fresh insight into the woman The Bible calls a blessed among women and an invitation to single-minded devotion to God's truth.
You can order your copy of James White's book. Mary another Redeemer at a omen org.
Incorporating the most recent research and solid biblical truth. Letters to a Mormon elder by James White is a series of personal letters written to a fictional Mormon missionary Examining the teaching and theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The book brings a relational approach to material usually presented in textbook style. James White draws from his extensive apologetics ministry to thousands of Mormons in presenting the truth of Christianity with well-defined arguments.
James White provides readers with insight and understanding into the Book of Mormon the prophecies visions and teachings of Joseph Smith the Theological implications of the doctrines of Mormonism and other major historical issues relevant to the claims of the LDS Church.
This marvelous study is a valuable text for Christians who talk with Mormons and is an ideal book to be read by Mormons. Letters to a Mormon elder get your copy today in the Mormonism section of our bookstore at a omen org.
Well there are many people who are demonstrating that they are merciful today because they are calling eight seven seven seven five three thirty three forty one and They are saving all the rest of you who do not realize you're benefiting from their ministry.
From hearing Warren and I singing the greatest tits of Elvis. However. After we go off the air I think it is possible that we may get together around the microphone and make those the views those recordings available on the website.
Then again, maybe we won't. Let's go ahead and go back to our phones and mp3 I Don't think we can even use a filter and mp3 would help that. Let's tow to Wayne and Lansing, Michigan. Wayne deliver us, please from the possibilities of.
Doing just fine. Oh.
He's I can guarantee you Johnny has heard every.
Debate.
Almost almost.
You still have the 33 RPMs, what's that you still have the 33 RPMs? Explain to me how you got involved. Talking about standing on street. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I understand it is obviously a little bit unusual and it's it's not. It's not normative to be involved in that kind of That kind of work unfortunately for reformed folks. And I'm not generally down in in Phoenix doing that kind of thing.
We got involved with it because Initially this ministry was focused upon first and foremost sharing the gospel with LDS people and Because Mormons are willing to talk and because there were Opportunities locally out in Mesa and then up in Salt Lake City.
We discovered eventually. And people would stop and talk. They'd take the tracks. They'd read them here was an opportunity to reach out to a group that was obviously and still is very much involved in Coming to our front doorstep, but here's how a small group of us could reach a large number of them and so that's what we've been doing and that's how we got started in doing this was trying to find opportunities of Sharing with LDS people and sharing things with them that they weren't going to hear at most doorsteps when they went door-to-door.
They certainly weren't going to hear from the pulpit of their award Chapel and then I expanded out a little bit. When we started dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses We actually held signs outside of district conventions because Jehovah's Witnesses won't take anything from you.
They wouldn't be caught dead standing out there talking to you. So we had to almost anonymously let them know there were phone numbers. They could call they could listen to messages anonymously and one of the differences I think you know you mentioned well, you know, you've read Calvin's commentaries and institutes and he didn't do that kind of thing.
Well, very very different cultural situation. I mean in essence if there had been Mormons in Geneva, they wouldn't have been allowed to stay there. There was everyone in Geneva was a part of the church under that particular situation you have a.
You have sacralism a magisterial Reformation where you're you're reforming the state church and we don't have a state church here and therefore you have all sorts of Different perspectives that are being expressed.
And so we really live in a post-christian society and. So there are opportunities that are given to us since we still have the freedom in the United States to do so. To speak the truth and sometimes when there's large gatherings of people then you have the opportunity of doing that.
It is interesting to be reformed in doing that because if other people show up They're probably going to disagree with you and distance themselves from you as much as possible. That certainly happened to us.
But our real focus is is to minister to a specific group of people who have a specific They've they've been deceived in a specific way that requires Christians to give them specific information that many Christians aren't prepared to do and so that really is what Motivates us to get to the places that we that we get to up in Salt Lake City or out in Mesa.
So that we can have those conversations where we can communicate to the LDS people in a way that they can really understand. Well, so you'll certainly hear that stuff doesn't work anymore. I hear that all the time about just plainly preaching the gospel but Shotgun in the sense that When we're out in Mesa, we are passing out tracts to some who are non Mormons, I suppose but there's still such a high percentage of Mormons out there that.
And especially of course, it's all Lake City. It's about 98 that still you're you're reaching your target audience and Are do we have tracks that are thrown away and things like that? Of course, we expect that but it's the track that gets stuck in a pocket and isn't found for a couple months that a person gets to read without the Emotions of the moment.
Those are the ones that we've heard from years later where they we've had people come up to us. I I took a track from you because I was angry that you were there and I was Angry that you were saying what you were saying.
So I was gonna disprove you. So I started looking up your references and lo and behold you were right. Thank you so much for you know for your ministry. Well, is that rare? Yeah, it is. There's no two ways about it.
It's it's not. Yes, yes I was I have pictures of Myself and my wife alone passing out tracks in Salt Lake City and I think that would have been when I was 20 and she was 19. Yep. Yep so yeah, it's I Suppose that in in essence it goes back to act 17 and 18.
It goes back to Apollos it goes back to Paul Going into the marketplace and in public fashion Demonstrating from the scriptures to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. I mean there you know, we have an awesome gospel and an awesome message and it's a powerful message and You know, there's there needs to be a balance in it.
I think the article we had on the website a while back Dealing with those who we ran into in Salt Lake the last time who were you know You know just railing at the Mormons and and just insulting them and things like that, you know, we're not doing that.
We try to do it in such a way as to adorn the gospel by our behavior. But at the same time, I think that we should be very Open in our proclamation of the gospel and when we get an opportunity to do it do it.
So that's what we do.
Okay. Well great. I. You know, I. Oh we do. Oh, we do. Oh, yeah. I remember Keith Green's an old brochure he had on.
Haven't didn't see on PBS, but I saw him all over the news because the the Ninth Circuit Court's demonstration that yet. Once again, our judiciary has been taken over by by those who think themselves Kings philosopher Kings.
I'll just mention in passing that I'll get off of it, but it's it's been very disappointing to me To hear many many many people saying ah, God doesn't mean anything specific the problem is anyone who reads the Federalist Papers or the Constitution or the Declaration and knows the people are involved with it.
Well knows what God they were talking about and The reason that people want to get rid of that is because it is a constant reminder Of the foundation of this this nation and how far we have and I'm not gonna say wandered or strayed but run Away from that foundation.
It's quite true That's right. Well, I I we we still have the tapes somewhere. We may even make them available I don't know. Maybe rich can tell me but I did a Program with Tom Likas. I don't know if you ever heard of him But he's a sort of a shock jock out of LA now, but he was in Phoenix back when I was well, I had a whole lot more hair and I have now and I was I was on I was on the air with a representative of the American atheists and he the American atheist representative said yeah riches tell me we still make that available Brian Lynch was his name and He said right there on the air.
He would get so minutes. This guy was just Buzzsaw like he was so nasty, but right on the air He said look if you people want to worship your God Then you all should just go out on a desert island someplace and do it But don't do it in the United States and that's that's what they want.
They want an absolutely secular nation where there is absolutely no Public demonstration of a belief in God and that's exactly what this atheist wanted. It's exactly what he wanted to accomplish he's not going to yet, but they keep trying and You know eventually rich says a omen begins converting it to mp3.
Yeah, that that was a debate. That was just absolutely incredible. It was long time ago I think I would debate the issues differently now than I did then but it's certainly entertaining to listen to to listen to the hatred That this man has for God.
So anyways, yes Barry has been bopping around and I'll have to admit there is every time I see him that thought in the back of my mind Well, there he is there he goes again, but boy when he had the opportunity of demonstrating that his position Was the cogent and the true one?
He didn't do it. So anyways Well, there you go, just don't run over your foot or something while you're doing Anyway, thanks a lot. All right. God bless. All righty. Okay, we roll on here because many of you desperately want to Make sure that nothing else happens in this particular program.
We talk with Steve in New Jersey. Hey Steve. How are you?
Dr. White? I'm doing well. Good. Thank you for having me on the program. What can I do for you today? Well, I have. First of all, I want to say that about a year ago. I found your website and your writings and they have been.
Well, the clarity of the way the gospel was presented in the form position is presented have been a God-send to me because it has been very helpful for me in dealing with people and just Representing the gospel in the reform position.
Well, thank you very much Steve. Work. If I may ask where are you in New Jersey? I live in a town called Kinnelon, which is near Wayne.
We met briefly at the New Hyde Park Baptist Church, oh, okay. All right at the breakfast. I saw you there when I spoke and I will be at the debate on the 11th. Great. Excellent.
I'll be back at New Hyde Park the wind last Wednesday that I'm on Long Island, too. So that's. I don't even know what I'm speaking on yet, but that's where I'll be.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Great novel response to first Peter second Peter three nine. There's only just if you got this response, how would you react to it? We know that the how first Peter three Martin three nine is misused and My normal response is basically the way you've laid it out in the book.
You go to first Peter one second Peter one who's written to right and go through and identify the pronouns right, you know, and. The response was you know, well that he was written to everyone in the church.
But he knew that there were those who were saved and those who weren't saved. So yes. It is comfort to the believer in that God is patient towards them. But he's also patient towards the unbeliever because they're all in the same church.
So the promise is being made to unbelievers. Well, this is that. Yeah, that's that's ours. Yeah.
It's a twist to say well Peter knew who he was writing to and yes. He is saying that the believers are people of promise and and and and it's a comfort to them. But when he says all Not willing that any should parents that he is writing to believers and unbelievers because he knows there are unbelievers.
So we're going to read the letter. Anyway, we're going to be in the church just like there are unbelievers in the visible church today.
Well here it is. Here's how I would respond that assuming that As you said this person said yeah, you follow the pronouns and and and you're correct. The problem is that if you follow the pronouns you a have already established from second Peter one one that this is written to the elect not to The quote-unquote gathered church with believers and unbelievers which some some, you know, the book of Hebrews certainly is that's I'm not.
It would be very good to acknowledge that there are passages of Scripture That are written in that way. However in this particular passage, for example second Peter 3 3 know this first of all than in the last days mockers will come with their mocking following after their own lusts and Saying and notice how he puts this in the third person.
He's talking about people not in his audience. But people that are outside of his audience who are questioning the coming of Christ and then he goes on talks about that. And then when he goes back to addressing who he's talking to he says but do not let this this is verse 8 this one Fact escape your notice, but beloved that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.
So he goes back to addressing The elect and then when he talks about his promise, well, what promise is that? If it is it is given to those who are not of the elect. So I would say it involves some special pleading.
It doesn't really follow the context very well and really it would demonstrate. You know what? I would say to a person at that point is look if this is one of your key passages to try to avoid Accepting the reality that God has an elect people and that he is perfect in his salvation of them well you you're gonna have to admit that there's no way to read 2nd Peter 3 9 this way and Prove to me that your point is actually the only way to take this passage.
So let's go to the clearer passages. Let's go the passages. They're specifically talking about whether Christ saves perfectly or whether he does not whether he tries or whether he fails, etc, etc. Let's go to the clear passages rather than going to these passages that might in your mind.
Make a statement in a in an ancillary fashion but not actually address the issue that's at hand and really I think one of the reasons that many of us struggle in dealing with these issues than evangelicalism today is that I Think I'm not being unfair to say that most evangelicals have never had lesson number one in doing the exegesis of the text of Scripture and.
So yeah, I I think mandatory reading for for for Evangelical Christians should be your chapter in your book on camping one on just on on basic Hermeneutics right context and so I mean that that the two chapters I got out of that book Which I found very good was the one on Just the doctrine of the church right as well as the one on the on how to exegete Scripture right on context.
I mean those those. These are those two chapters, I think they would they would they would gain a lot. The other chapters required the taking of Tylenol.
Believe and if you and if you think is rough for you to read them you should have sat here and typed them all out. Well, I should say I should say I need to because I mean let me scroll down here and see if he's lurking in channel.
No, he's not in there, but he may listen to it later on one of our faithful folks and channel MDH. He's the one who listened to the entire phone call. From Chris Arnzen to Harold camping and he typed it all out.
And I would just like to say everyone who knows who MDH is Please do not mention Harold camping to him because to this very day from having done that he begins to shake. When you mention his name, it's it's really sad to see but just try to avoid mentioning anything about it.
But I should say everything else I did I did all sat there listened listened and typed it all out. But he did do that. So I should thank him for doing that. But anyways, I understand. Hopefully let me get back to my point.
You're you you're hearing what I'm saying. And that is much of our struggle is that we're dealing with folks not really on an exegetical basis. We're trying to teach them what exegesis is in the first place and that really makes it a double.
It's sort of like trying to teach people Greek when they don't know English. It's a most folks really struggle at that point and that's what we're doing in the same situation here.
And you're also dealing with the fact that they come to the scripture with certain traditional.
Words, oh, yeah big time. Oh, definitely. Yeah, and yet as Dave Hunt says he has no traditions and. Yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about and it really does require of us to go the extra mile and I'll be honest with you sometimes I.
You know it's like when someone comes in and they quote one of the Many many many verses that we have to deal with over and over and over again. Sometimes the the getting weary and well-doing kicks in and especially for me the the temptation is.
Look, I just wrote a whole book about the thing. Go read it. You know, I just. The 14th time you've done it in the past week just makes you feel somewhat frustrated. But we have to realize if we're going to get through to a lot of these folks.
That's what we that's we have to do and we need to pray for patience because pray for patient. Oh, yeah. Patience and grace. Yeah, you know.
It's it's a battle and it's. But it's also a worthwhile one. I find the more I get into these things the better. I understand. Oh, yes.
Oh, yeah, believe me. I know exactly what you're talking about.
Yeah, I have been part of a Bible study down in the Wall Street area for Close to 20 years. We had anybody walking there. I mean you. You name it. No, you're civilians. Everything come in from time to time.
So you had to be on your toes, but one of the issues that we're dealing we deal with And it's on you know, the authority of Scripture versus the authority of being led by the Spirit Issue and I've I found the writings on the on the authority of Scripture with the Roman Catholic Church very helpful.
Yeah, but nothing that deals specifically with transitioning when you know when Spirit leads or revelation.
There is a lot of stuff out there actually. It's just not one of the major areas that that I deal with. I'm very much a specialist when it comes to Things like that. There are some excellent works and I do actually intend When I start the the book that I'm gonna be writing on sola scriptura for Bethany house I do intend to address issues like that.
It's not going to be Specifically aimed toward Roman Catholicism. It will deal with that but I'm going to go well beyond that to the aspect of The sufficiency of Scripture in the believers life and the issue of you know.
What about people who say well the Lord spoke to me and said or the Spirit led me to do this out of the other thing. What is the Spirit's ministry? What's the relationship of the Spirit to the word? Those are very very important things.
There is a book that does address that Published by banner of truth called the sufficiency of Scripture.
I'm not sure if you've seen that. What what action to we were doing. We were going on in the Psalms Where I was leading a group and it was psalms 119, I think 33 to 40 that that section where it talks about the ordinance of God the law of God as commands of God and.
That's all of one. That's all of someone. Yeah, but.
And I thought it juxtaposed that to what Paul. What Paul said in Romans 7. And we just took a few of the things where he said the law is good the law is spiritual. And because you're getting to this thing where we live we don't live by the law.
We live by the spirit, right. And I thought you know, I said if you want to live by the Spirit trial bang law. Spiritual. And you know, well, I mean if you're having trouble living by the Spirit just try it, you know.
Try following the Ten Commandments and you might make some progress.
Well, not only that you can you can take folks directly to the the New Testament and you can listen to John who talks all about The Holy Spirit of God likewise saying that all sin is lawlessness it the issue of the the nature of the law and As as Reformed theology puts it that second use of the law is I think very important.
It actually came out in my recent book on homosexuality. In fact.
Really one of the questions that I would ask many of my even good friends Who take a different view on this is if the psalmist who wrote psalm 119 Was indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God was a regenerate believer How could he rejoice in the law of God if in point of fact I no longer can.
That I do not understand but there are there are those Theologies today that would say that we can no longer rejoice in what rejoiced the heart of David or the psalmist in Psalm 119 and I have a hard time with that because I think what you know, some might say well You can't rejoice in the ceremonial aspects of it because I was pointing to Christ.
Well, I I'm very glad that God pointed to Christ and I have the fulfillment of that but I think it's very clear that the psalmist definitely did rejoice in the moral aspects of the law and Does that not mean that I too Would rejoice in that it how can I think of what my Savior did on Calvary?
If I do not know what sin is and does that is that not what the moral law shows me is what sin is? Am I not rejoicing that my Savior lived that law perfectly in my place. Can I not rejoice in that and does that law then not give me light as to know what is pleasing to God?
Do I not desire to be pleasing to God and so? There's there's all sorts of issues there. That's that I've sort of avoided getting into on the program. I Sometimes touch on them, but you're exactly right.
That's it's a beautiful passage and as you can tell from the sound the background we are out of time for today. Thank you very much for your call. Keep serving the Lord there in New Jersey. All right.
Yeah, you think he's gone. Thank you very much for listening today. I would like to say that I am NOT taking it personally as I said the fact that you all called in today just to keep Warren and I from singing because You all don't know we may really be good.
Then again, we may be really bad. I don't know What's that? You're hurt Warren's hurt, but he will get over it. I promise you anyways, I think I'm gone next week, aren't I? Yeah, I think I am. Well tune in and listen to what in the world's going on anyways because it'll always be interesting and Thanks for listening to the dividing line today.
God bless.
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