WORSHIP WARS - Part 2 - Season 2 Episode 4

Technical Setup and Opening Banter

Use uh nicknames. You had to use your real name because they were putting very inappropriate names. Yeah including gang related. Wait what is this again. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Um so i said real names only.

Well some of the kids were just being fun with it right. Um. But like you know one kid always called himself batman. One kid you know. Whatever. Right. But because some of the dweebs ruined it for everyone else of course we uh couldn't do anything.

So i said your real name's only. And he was like coach shibley i've been batman all year. I'm like i know man but can't do it. He goes fine and i go through. I read all my names make sure they're real.

And all of a sudden bruce wayne is playing and he goes. Coach shibley said i use my real name and i let him keep it. Uh dude you know.

That was good enough. Yeah that was good man. That was definitely good enough. They have a generator like a name generator now because apparently enough people ran into that so they're they're the dumbest.

Things like one of them was like uh honey badger 55 it's like honey badger 50 i literally popped up like who's honey badger 55 and this kid looks at me. He goes i guess it's me it's me. It was funny. It's not gonna rain on you i promise.

What is there a wasp or something. There's a drop of water. You sure. It wasn't my spittle it might have been in my hospital you.

Know what it was like right here for that to happen. Yeah that's what i was.

Saying it was like okay that that threw my whole game off.

Welcome back everybody. Welcome back to the point taken podcast.

Everybody ladies and gentlemen this is the podcast where we make and take spiritual and biblical questions and chat it up. My name is hunter the host of this podcast. Uh to my left. Me first today. I'm not introducing him today to my left pastor josiah ship.

What's up everybody. Pastor josiah are you.

Happy to be. I am very happy to be here. Hi wolf. This is the famous season one. Wolf with a mask over its mouth. Beta wolf. Yes. If you missed that go back to it. Was it our first episode we ever did.

Yep maybe second. Yeah. Was it the best shape episode. It's just a waste of time. Wolf with a mask. Yeah it.

Really is. And then uh he's also here as well. Um and we're finnegan. Right. Hello everybody. My name is finnegan. I have my head now. Oh hold on you can't do that. Yeah you're not wearing pod merch. This you're not wearing pod merch.

You have a head and you mentioned it and i'm also wearing pants. So yeah it won't work. No head no pants. That's how he rolls. No service. Can you tell people who i am. Mr host. I need people to know exactly who.

I is all right to quote the modern vernacular of the day. Brother andrew i am happy to be here as well. All right. All right. Okay we're getting somewhere all right. I'm in a better mood now. He didn't do it.

Worship, Performance, and the Song “Might Get Loud”

Okay guys we're gonna be completing. Oh we're gonna be continuing. Uh last week's episode on worship and we're gonna be finishing out our little game here. I love games. And we're gonna open up because this was all inspired by a listener question that we didn't even get to last week.

Uh just because i wanted to kind of warm it up but we you know we we were killing it all right. So here's our listener question. This is kind of a long question comma. That's that's the opening. I'm struggling with this culture of music where it feels like i am seeing more of performance over worship primarily with the release of the song might get loud by elevation.

I heard people say that is that it is similar to david's outpouring of praise. But when i see lyrics that say why can't i praise him as loud as i want. I get what they are trying to say. But it sits weird in my spirit feels very me centered letting me decide as to how i worship god.

I actually played the song in three services. One sunday uh not at my home church and my soul felt weird. Everyone was jumping and dancing and i'm just over here behind the piano like we're not listening to the same song.

Oh there you go. Well there you go. And so if you haven't heard it might get loud. I have not. Neither have. I.

It's loud. Can you just read it in a regular voice so we can.

Absolutely. Uh. And take out the rhyme part. Okay i was gonna do it in a british accent rhyming but i'll do it in a regular voice taking out the rhyme part. Okay. Excuse me for a minute but i've got a song to sing.

Might not be on key but it's from my heart. No one else can tell it what the lord has done for me. This might take all day. So i better start right now. There is no rhyming in that yet. So is this a rap section or is this.

No it's not uh. And and here's the course. And it might get loud. It might get loud because heaven's coming down down down and it might get loud. It might get loud. Heaven's coming down down down and it might get loud.

Oh who wrote this elevation. Okay i can. I can hear their their theology in this. And we're still going. I don't have a halo. No i'm not a perfect man. I'm just glad to be a child of god. Because when i think of where i could have been should have been would have been if he hadn't stepped in.

I've got a praise on the inside. That can't be denied. And i gotta get it out right now. When the saints when the saints start praising it might get loud. When the chains start breaking heaven's coming down down down.

And it might get loud. It might get loud. Heaven's coming down down down. It might get loud. That's literally the whole song. That's well i i don't know if there's more to it. I'd printed this page. May i you may i've worked.

I'm doing what i did last time. Go ahead and break that thing down. Okay. But be warned. It might get loud. Apparently all. Right. Excuse me for a minute but i've got a song to sing. Okay. Might not be on key but it's for my from my heart.

Okay. So in psalms it says that we are supposed to uh be skillful in in our play play the lute skillfully. And i think that applies to any and all musicians. Um so a musician saying that he's not may not be on key because the song from his heart is a little concerning.

Um no one else can tell it what the lord has done for me. This might take all day. So i better start right.

Now go ahead. Yeah. If if someone came up to me and said hey i want to sing loudly i would say go for it. But the whole song is about that. So what are we singing loudly. The song is about singing loudly.

I guess the part that first stands. I don't quite understand. Or maybe i do understands though. Yeah. And like i said you know i i sing very loud on sunday mornings. Uh understands. I just realized what he.

Said i was wondering like man you kept going.

He's like i'm ignoring that completely. I sing loud all the time. The problem is when it says it's almost like he's trying to say he's out of control. Like he says it's from my heart so it might not be off key.

That makes it sound like you can't purposely write something and it not be from your heart. In other words it makes it sound like it has to be out of control which is not.

True. Yeah. And then in addition it's like if you're gonna if you're if you're gonna do an outpouring of praise i have no problem with that. Absolutely. But you i don't think the holy spirit's going to jump down literally down your throat and make you do this.

I don't think anybody's gonna do that. Wow. Yeah. That was uh serious loud. That was more. That was tasmanian. Then i got loud that did get loud. And here's here's the bridge. Oh there's a bridge. Yeah.

You know there's a bridge. First of all the states who are praising. Right. Yeah. Uh. No. Well no that's. That's. I don't even know. This is what i would have called the bridge. Um. And it's separated by one two three go.

Hey hey hey. And it says my favorite. I love when it says why can't i pray them as loud as i want. Why can't i praise them as loud as i want. Heaven's coming down down down. Why can't i praise them as loud as i want.

And that goes on for a long time. I don't.

Understand who's stopping this person from singing.

Loudly or praying loudly. Yeah i don't know but uh okay it's written by stephen furtick christopher joel brown and brandon lake. Okay i'm surprised by the brandon lake one. Um the first one i don't know.

The other ones.

I love brandon lake. I i guess. Again i have absolutely zero problem with people singing or praying loudly. I do it all the time. Yeah. But why are we making a song about doing it loudly and then never talking about whatever we wanted to sing.

Thank you. And that's my point. Like that's what are we gonna sing loudly. All we did was sing about singing loudly this and this. What do you want to sing.

Loudly. This poor gentleman had three times three services where he had to play this music and everybody's going.

Woo woo. We never started singing any songs except that.

And there's no gospel there's no yes there is yes don't do this.

Wait. Is it salt. Putting that hector hat on. Don't do this. Okay. Is it salt. But fellas. No no it's hector. Fellas. Hector's here.

Guys fellas so fellas it does say that i'm just glad to be a child of god with no proof for action.

All right hector's gone. Yeah well i mean i mean okay.

It says uh and no one else can tell it what the lord has done for me that this might take all day so i better start right now but you know how it took all day but he never started how.

Well it can't take it can't take all day. Sing it three times in one day. Well he.

Said this might take all day so i better start right now. These are the lyrics. But you never started saying anything about god. All you said was it might get loud when the saints when heaven's coming.

Down. And the saints. What does he mean when he says when heaven comes down you know i. Because because i'm wondering if it's scriptural but not in that.

Context. I'm wondering. I don't think he's talking about. Yeah i don't think he's talking about. Second coming. I'm thinking he's talking about. Oh he's singing. Things are getting crazy and we're two or three or more gathered.

Boom. Jesus is among them. Oh he brought heaven with him. Oh everything's going crazy. I think that's what he's saying. There's two. Well there's two things that make which is a little way to make me laugh because i have a feeling that three people that wrote this probably never heard of the songs.

But heaven came down and glory filled my soul to him and then the saints go marching it. Like that's what i immediately think when i hear that. Yeah. So it's like did he just hear those two things in his head and he's like oh oh i love these are christian phrases.

Yeah. Like this is this. This is nonsense this is nonsensical dude. I've listened to that on uh on the radio on my like way to work and all this i turn it. I i either turn it or turn off the radio because my thing is like oh turn like turn it to another station.

Yeah. Oh well i'll go to like air one or i'll just you know maybe i'll listen to country music. I don't know but i'm not listening to that because it's like what's what's the point. Because all you're talking about.

And here's let's go back to the question.

So the psalm uh the psalter makes several references to praise him loudly. Sing out proclaim his name. Yeah but we're singing something loud. We're proclaiming something loud the message of the gospel we're proclaiming christ loud.

We never proclaimed anything. We just said we were going to sing loud and we did.

Right. And he said why can't i praise him as loud as you want. Well first of all why can't you praise him. Because you haven't. Right. Yeah. But like why. What are you trying to justify. Because it sounds like to me.

You're trying to convince me that what you're doing is cool and fun and okay. And if and nobody ever said like anything about it. Like is somebody at his church saying shh oh or something like you. That's not the case.

Yeah at his church especially. So i'm just like i'm like i don't know maybe he experienced some hate but like to go back to where the question was. He says i feel like i'm seeing more of a performance over worship.

And i would have to say this song is performance. And see i can't speak to the performance aspect of it because i don't know that. I don't know any of the work. Like i don't know how the rhythms are i don't know what instrument i can get.

I can guess it might get loud. Oh it's a rock song. No it's not really rock. That's just how i.

That's how i prefer to hear it is the person who wrote that in rock song is the person who wrote that in someone who's played this song and feels troubled that they played this song.

Oh yeah somebody who is a musician and has to.

Lead worship and do stuff. Well then i would say this to directly answer that question that person saying should i play this if it feels like a performance and not worship.

No agreed. I'd go one step further. Um than to say if if that's causing you to to stumble then don't ever do it. Like. Right that's what i'm saying. Yeah. But i would say if he's the one who's picking the music like was he.

No he didn't get to pick music at that point. He was just playing the piano. Right. I would just refuse to play it. Really i'm not playing this one sorry.

Yeah and and not rudely or spitefully just no.

No yeah well yeah i mean i have problems with the song and he and he you know grew those problems after playing it because he was just sitting there like this just doesn't seem like oh i get it.

This person just reads music and then it was placed in front of no they knew.

The song but they didn't think it just wasn't until he don't think it was in his head. Yeah. And so then he's watching it all go down and he's saying no when you have it when you have the chance to actually be retrospective about it and start to think like a lot of i know a lot of people um at least i've seen a lot of people here at whitton um they may not sing the song through the first go because they're reading the words trying to understand what they're saying.

That's important. Yeah you should never do a song unless you know what the words are and understand.

The concept behind it. I am so with that. Yeah it's so true that's.

Why i. That's why i make sure i read every lyric before we ever sing it. I mean and this he he goes to a bunch of like i i know the person who asked this question. I think i do too. And no you do. And you know he goes to a bunch of different churches all the time plays music for him because he has this huge circle and they call him to do music and stuff.

So he's just seeing a whole bunch of this stuff. And one of the things i loved what he told me one time he was uh getting ready for a service dude and he's sitting there praying. Maybe he wasn't praying i don't remember but all i remember is he was getting ready for the service and he got two other band mates or whatever talking about are you gonna wear the hat today.

Like like when you go up there you're gonna wear a hat like because they had these sun hats and or whatever. Uh style fashion he's like are you gonna wear that hat up there today. It's like oh man yeah because they're talking about the riffs or whatever the cool music stuff that they did or that they will do and.

What they're wearing and he's just like is our focus in the right place boys.

Right he's like what what are we what's happening right now and so i really liked what because when we talk about it nowadays he's just like well i wonder if they're worshiping or if they're wearing the hat you know uh.

And it just became that that's his analogy. Yeah and he just.

Became that little term and and i think that's what he was struggling with is like dude these people are wearing the hat. These people are just like it's all about the performance. It's all about what it looks and how it feels or whatever.

But that song is the epitome of wearing the hat. It's like dude it might get loud. It might get loud. It has just enough of context in there to make you think like okay i get what he's trying to do. Like maybe this is cool.

And then the music will take you the rest of the way. But it's just not worship. I mean like what you just read. Yeah. Right. It's i can see how it can be gratefulness from like the first verse where it says yeah because god did a lot for me i'm going to sing and praise him.

And then that was it. And then the rest of it is just like the way he's going to praise but he never starts and he never does it. So it's just like it's all about the music. It's all about the music. That song.

And so i was just like no. Is it a worship. Okay. I'm gonna answer this. Is it a worship song. No. Is it a song i listen to in the car. No. Is it a song that i would play on a sunday morning. Absolutely not.

No. No. No. I agree with. I agree with your that one was easy. Yeah. All. Right. What's next. This one is a song called good grace. Okay. And i want you to try and find. Oh i know.

This one you know the song. I think i do okay.

So let's let's listen. Swing wide all you heavens let the praise go up as the walls come down. All creation everything with breath repeat the sound all his children clean hands pure hearts good grace good god.

Oh his name is jesus. I know this one. Yeah i i thought yeah. Is that the only lyrics. You those are the lyrics. Because that is what was brought to me as controversial. Wait a minute. Can i say sure i i have to read it to really get it in my head.

Come on. No. Describe the paper. No okay.

There there is there is. Brother andrew if i may there is one line in that song i wish it could change but it's nothing that you just read.

Everything you just read. Really spot on. Okay. What was the other line. Was that a listener question by the way. Uh that was brought to me by not me.

Okay whoever brought that and last one y 'all want to disagree. I have no problem with any of those lyrics. Okay there's one line i wish i could change um but it is one of those again. It's not enough to make me not listen to a song.

I listen that song all the time. Yeah. Um i'm not gonna sing it. So let me think um do you need the paper. Don't let your heart be troubled.

Hold on. I can't think of anything but the i can't think of anything with the chorus. Is that where this is or that's uh can i see that. Yeah.

It's not the course of the pre-chorus. Oh lift your head up. I don't fear no evil. Fix your eyes. God is madly in love with you. Now. Madly is not my favorite word to use with god's love for us. Again it's not enough to make me turn the song off because i know what they're trying to say.

That just makes it sound again like he's head over heels out of control. You know he's madly in love with you. Maybe overwhelmingly. I'm good with that. Yeah yeah. Something like that. Yeah. But apart from that.

No i don't have problems. Yeah i i have to agree. I'm not.

Nothing about what that. Well here's here's the part that was brought to me because i've it was uh all his children clean hands pure hearts good grace good god yeah that's what.

Was brought to me is controversial. No that's what we're supposed to lift up to him. Clean hands and.

Pure. It's not saying we are all his children. That would be. That would be a minute. That would be something. Um i mean the first. All creation. Everything with. Uh and i kept saying the opposite. All creation do this.

All his children do this. Yeah. We should. I mean by by the standards of sanctification. Pure hands pure clean hands pure hearts. Good grace. Good god. His name is jesus. Yeah. I don't have any problem.

Also it calls jesus god. So answer three questions. Uh i'm not gonna say it's a worship song because i don't know the whole song. Oh you never heard this. I've never heard this song before. I'm not gonna say it's worship because i don't know uh based off those lyrics.

If the rest of the song is like that i would say it would be fine. For a sunday morning. However i say that with the caveat of not knowing any of the actual music behind it. So yes. And then personally probably yeah i could i could see myself singing that.

Those words. Yeah. All three yeses. Nice. That one passes with flying colors. Yeah. Well i mean when you're basically quoting psalm was it psalm 100. Basically. Yeah. You can't go wrong with that. And yeah you know i just.

Don't think the psalms are very good. Uh david are they worship. Just kidding. All right. Let's check.

Out that uh that psalter there uh. Would you sing this in church. Would you let your kids. Would you see this song. I know which one. I wouldn't let him sing in the car the songs of solomon but.

Yeah that's probably. There was david songs and then there was solomon songs. Who's the.

Who's the group who's not allowed to read song of solomon. So they're married. What. Yeah is that like a church thing i don't know if it's a i can't remember is it. I kind of felt like it was a historical thing like back in the day there's a certain group of people it's.

Easy to make fun of that but at the same time when i read the bible to ava that's not gonna be the.

Right i'm not gonna pick that one. Yeah yeah let's memorize the first verse all right. Oh the ivory tower. The final one is the song called i'm gonna see a victory.

I'm gonna see a victory. I already have developed this opinion long ago. I'm sure have and that's.

Why it's going to be yours. Have i talked to you about this before. You. Sure have. Yeah you've done it. Uh. In service. I don't remember this. I've done this. I did this bridge. I did this from the pulpit.

Okay and uh sunday night. Yeah first off let me just start. I have no problem with the title. I'm going to see a victory. You're allowed to assume victory because jesus on your side. I don't have a problem with that.

Someone asked me about that before all. Right. So we start off by quoting scripture. Uh the weapon may be formed but it won't prosper. Uh david said that. Right. No weapon. When the darkness falls it won't prevail because the god i serve knows only how to triumph.

I love that line. My god will never fail. Does it rhyme. I'm sorry i. Okay. Uh the power in the mighty actually does rhyme. This is my favorite line of the song. And i i don't even know that the people who made the song believe this line.

But i do every war he wages he will win. I mean that's yeah. He's never lost. Uh i know how the story ends. Blah blah. Okay i'm gonna see a victory. I'm gonna see victory. For the battle belongs to you.

That's quoted several times in scripture. Uh deborah said that to uh not judah. Uh barack. Wasn't it. Yeah. Um yeah. Um anyway the the bridge is what i take issue with. It's another one of those where i don't turn the song off.

I just change the lyrics. When i sing this song to ava i change the lyrics. So here here's as it's written you take what the enemy meant for evil and you turn it for good. You turn it for good. You take what the enemy meant for evil and you turn it for good.

Now my if i go on too long someone shut me up. Genesis 50 20. You what. Uh joseph speaking to his brothers what you the enemy meant for evil. God meant for good or intended. Let's say. Okay here it says.

You take what the enemy meant for evil and you turn it for good. And the point i was making in my sermon a couple weeks ago was that's not true. He's even better than that. Yeah. Yeah. He god has never reacted a single time.

He doesn't. If i'm at the cusp of blasphemy he doesn't know how to react. He doesn't know how to react. He would understand the concept. Sure. He created the concept. But he doesn't know how to. Okay.

Yeah. Um you take what the enemy meant for evil and you meant it for good. It's even more purposeful than that. My issue with the song is that line. He doesn't take what the enemy means for evil. And then.

Okay. Let's see if we can conjure up the way to make this still work out. Because i'm on a timeline and the seasons are changing and he's got to come back. And this time. And if he attacks that nation and you carry the two.

Yeah. Oh i didn't.

See vlad doing that then andrew will never be born if i do that so i gotta okay peter's gonna.

Deny me. Oh again he's gonna get really really really mad. So yeah cut off someone's ear. I take i take. Figure out a pretty large issue with that. He does not take what the enemy meant to evil and turns it for good.

He intended it meant it for good. So uh all i do is just when i sing it.

I just change that word. So basically you just sing the scripture instead of yeah you take what.

The enemy meant for evil and you intend it for good. Yeah yeah i i can't sing that good but that's.

What i do i've got no quorum with that one. All right. Uh andrew you have two special ones that.

Are just for you. Okay all right. If if i may you you might let's say that you said hey just i was gonna play this song. All i would do is say would it be possible for you to change that one word. And if it is it is.

If it isn't is it. And if it wasn't i would probably just all right. Hey guys this song is based on this scripture and it actually said you know something like that. Yeah.

Give them a little rundown. Give them the rundown. Okay i'm gonna start with the with this one. Draw me close to you. Never let me go. I lay it all down again to hear you. Oh it's been a minute since i've heard this uh to hear you say that i'm your friend.

You are my desire no one else will do because nothing else could take your place to feel the warmth of your embrace. Help me find the way. Bring me back to you. You're all i want. You're all i've ever needed.

You're all i want. Started early. No you are near. We're finna. Break out of the song. Anyways i love this one. So let's just go ahead and let's say i take all the u's and take the capital. Would you.

Even the camera guys laughing. This is good man.

We're we're adding to the salt. We are trying we're trying to build it. Lot's wife is frozen in this room. I'm about to shake the snot out of this salt. Um what was lot's wife's name.

She's not salt. She's unnamed. She's unnamed. You know she was real salty about it. You got it you.

Know why she's unnamed. Because she was that important. Uh all she did was turn around the way to make the name. The word pillar feminine. Pillow. Pillow. She's a pillow of salt. No it's whatever. That doesn't make any sense.

We'll give her a name. All right. Macy. I think i think the point's pretty clear. Uh the way i read it uh i could be talking about anybody or anything i could be talking about.

Draw me close to you puppy dog. Come here come here come here girl uh. Based on this.

Uh here let me rephrase this. Draw me close to you baby. Never let me go baby. I lay it all down again to hear you say that i'm your friend baby your boyfriend. You are my desire baby. I thought elvis died.

This is incredible. No one else will do baby because nothing else uh could take your place sweetheart to feel the warmth of your embrace. Uh help me find the way. Bring it back to you now. Okay. Do i need to say more.

Okay. Yeah. Not. A worship. Hold on hold on hold on hold on the chorus. You're all you're all you're all i want. But you're all i ever needed. You're all i needed. Help me know. You're near huh. Text me.

Let me know you're here. Oh wait my phone just.

When was that song made. Uh probably back in 17 19 probably 1998 1998. Now it's older than that.

What. Because i was maybe older. I don't know. You're the hymn historian. Hymn historian. Is that not a hymn. Not a hymn. No chance. That's not a not a hymn. Hold on. I'm googling right now. Draw me close.

Oh my gosh. Is that michael dub. No that's just going to be a cover. Hold on draw me close to you it better not be um. What am i looking for. Original. Just original artist. Okay. Um. And then. Release date published.

Written by kelly carpenter a vineyard worship pastor in january 1994. I was okay. I was four years off. Okay i was four years off. So that 28 years. Wait. Pastor or worship pastor. That's a new term. I've heard.

I don't myself. But dude he is focused on whatever. This is. Okay. Draw me close is written by kelly carpenter a vineyard worship pastor. Here's the story. This is going to be a quote from her. I had been leading worship and pastoring the worship ministry at our church for about two years.

During this time i put myself under a lot of pressure. I was new to both leading and pastoring. Although i had been a lot of confidence i had had a lot of confidence. Musically i felt pretty green and worship leading and totally overwhelmed with people.

Okay. So whatever. Thank you for my uh nerds during oh you're welcome you big nerd um uh i feel like that is an episode in itself. Right there. Uh. But yeah so i can tell so just from that statement that she felt green in the she was confident.

Musically the music is fine. Like the music itself is fine. But the i can tell her um inexperience in writing hymns. Or write not even hymns. Writing songs because those words are uh weak sauce because your bars are trash.

You have no fire. What is.

Better than hunter's out of breath. Laugh. That's my favorite man. Uh. Yep man i'm just i'm just trying.

To figure out more about this artist while you while you keep doing that all right. The other one is oceans. This was a big one when i first took over as a music person here. Um okay so you call me out upon the waters the great unknown where feet may fail.

And there i find you in the mystery and oceans deep my faith will stand and i will call upon your name and i will keep my eyes above the waves. When oceans rise my soul will rest in your embrace for i am yours and you are mine.

Uh yeah your grace abounds the deepest waters. Your sovereign hand will be my guide wherever feet may fail. Fear surrounds me. You've never failed and you won't start now. Okay read the.

Bridge will you. Uh that's the spirit lead me spirit lead me where my trust is without borders.

Let me walk upon the waters wherever you will call me take me deeper than my feet could ever wonder and my faith will be made stronger in the presence of my savior. Okay i remember this song.

Because i liked the bridge the other parts of like okay but that's i remember that i think it's a call out about peter. That is my assumption that this is loosely based on peter's uh account. Um i.

Think the it's not so much controversial as much as just it's empty. Until you get to the bridge. I until you get to the bridge. Yeah. And it's very me centric. You call me out upon the waters the great unknown where feet may fill.

There i there and there i find you in the mystery and notions deep. My faith will stand. And i will call your name. Keep my eyes above the way. It's very me centered. And i regardless it does not. Who is the you.