WWUTT 1155 Q&A Missing Bible Books, Fantastic Francis Chan, Music Choices Again?

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What happened to the Apostle Paul after the book of Acts? Did Francis Chan really heal an entire village of people?

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And what kind of music should Christians be listening to? The answers to these questions and others when we understand the text.

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This is when we understand the text a daily Bible study in the Word of God who supplies for every need according to the riches he has given us in Christ Jesus.

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Tell your friends about our website at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. We have recorded this one much earlier in the week than we usually do.

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Yes. My son and I are in Nashville, Tennessee at the time that you're going to hear this particular recording.

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We're attending the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. Yeah. I guess it's a convention.

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Yeah. It's going on all week long. Right. At the Gaylord Convention Center in Nashville.

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And we're there, not because we're promoting when we understand the text, though I believe I have a few brochures and I'm probably handing them out to a few people.

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Awesome. But my dad is being recognized for 50 years in broadcast ministry.

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That's so cool. So they're giving him a big reward, award.

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I don't know how that works. I know that R .C. Sproul was recognized a few years ago.

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John MacArthur was recognized last year. Correct. And my dad was supposed to be recognized at the same ceremony that John MacArthur was being recognized.

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Yeah. He just couldn't make it to the convention. Too much going on last year. There was something that happened in the family right at that time and he had to cancel.

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But the NRB was very understanding and they just said, well, hey, we'll just do it next year. Yeah. Super sweet of them.

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Which last year was in Anaheim. This year's in Nashville. Anaheim, California. Right.

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It's much easier. Just in case you're not familiar. Yeah. Much easier for me to get to Nashville than it is to get to Anaheim.

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All the way out to California. Yeah. And then finding hotels and getting around. Oh my goodness. It's just not easy to do.

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So Nashville wouldn't be going with you. Yeah. If I was in Anaheim, he wouldn't be going with me to that one. Right.

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So we have three generations of Hughes's there. It'll be awesome. My dad, myself, my son, as we were there for my dad, that's the reason why we're there.

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But Grace to you has their booth there. So I've met up with the folks there. Oh, cool. Really? Yep. Daryl Harrison of Just Thinking is there.

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Oh, fun. Give him a big hug for me. I shall. I shall do that. Thanks. So today we're going to come back to a couple of the questions we have today have to do with some stuff that we talked about last week.

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At the end of last week's episode, I concluded with Philippians 4 -8. I feel like this is a great place to start.

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Instead of finishing the episode with this passage, we'll begin with it today. Right. Finally, brothers, which is why it was so good to end the program with it last week, because it begins with finally.

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Yeah. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable.

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If there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

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What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things and the

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God of peace will be with you. So some of the things we concluded with last week had to do with the kind of music that we listened to.

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So we're going to come back to a few of those questions here again today, as well as talking about spiritual gifts.

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First of all, though, Sonia sent you a question. She did. Do you remember what this question was?

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It was about how Paul came to his demise, I guess. What happened to Paul?

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What ended up happening to Paul? Right. So because it was a little over a week ago, we finished our study in the book of Acts.

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But Paul doesn't die at the end of Acts. Right. We know that he was martyred. So how did that come about?

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I didn't really talk about that when we finished up Acts. Yeah. And how or where or anything like that.

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So he was martyred in Rome. He's under house arrest in Rome, which is where we leave him by the time we get to the book of Acts.

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Acts is not the story of Paul, because the two main characters throughout that story, well, other than the

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Holy Spirit. Of course. Of course. The Holy Spirit is mentioned more in Acts than any other book of the

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Bible. It's over 40 times. I think it's something like the only other place where you see the

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Spirit mentioned that many times is in Romans 8. But as for the mention of the

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Holy Spirit in the book of Acts, definitely mentioned more there than we find the Holy Spirit mentioned anywhere else. But the two main figures in that story are going to be

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Peter and Paul. Peter at the first, because he's sharing the gospel in Jerusalem, Judea, and the surrounding region before the

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Lord then calls Paul, who is going to go to the Gentiles. So he's even jumping out beyond the region of Judea and Samaria.

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He's taking that ends of the world commission. Right. That's what I was going to say. With the gospel that he's sharing with the

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Gentiles. So in the process of attempting to get to Rome, he heads back to Jerusalem where he's arrested and he appeals to Caesar.

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And that's how he ends up on a ship sent to Rome, is shipwrecked before he gets there.

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When he gets to Rome, he's a prisoner. So he's placed under house arrest and he can have people come to him.

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He ministers to the entire church there in Rome. Many others come to him to hear what he has to say.

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Even many of the palace guard come to know Christ as well. Right there. And Paul talks about that with the

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Philippians, given that I was reading from Philippians here. Onesimus was another one. Onesimus, who was a slave of Philemon, came into Paul's service there in Rome.

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Paul led him to Christ and then had him deliver some letters for him to the Colossians, to the

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Ephesians, and then the one to Philemon. All three of those letters being delivered at the same time. Paul was still imprisoned in Rome at that time.

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He would get out. And we know that he gets out because of what he says to the Philippians.

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He says, I know the spirit has told me that I'm going to get out and I'm going to get to come to see you. Where Paul went after he went to Rome was he went to Spain.

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And this is based on something he says to the Romans in Romans chapter 15.

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He says, I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain and to be helped on my journey there by you once I have enjoyed your company for a while.

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So the understanding is, and this is even according to church history, that after Paul got out of that first imprisonment there in Rome, since he was already so far to the

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West, he went ahead and went to Western Europe. And he ministered there in Spain and maybe a few other places as well.

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And then it was when he was coming back East, he was arrested a second time. And he was placed in prison, like real prison now, while he was in Rome, not under house arrest anymore.

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So he's imprisoned and is going to be martyred. And this is when

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Paul writes to Timothy in 2 Timothy chapter 4 and says that he's finished the race.

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He has fought the good fight. I've been poured out as a drink offering. And the spirit has told him that he's not going to come out of this imprisonment.

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This is the one where he's going to be martyred. So he's making arrangements with Timothy regarding the last things that he has to do before he's going to be put to the sword.

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And he asked Timothy to come to him. He's sending Tychicus to stay there in Ephesus and Timothy stay while Timothy comes and brings him his cloak and the parchments and things like that.

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Because Paul has he intended to write some more, even while he was there in prison.

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That's what he means by bringing me the parchments, because he had all of his writing utensils bound up in that.

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If Paul wrote anything else after that, we don't know. All of that is yet.

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Well done. I don't think we will. Yeah, there's always a big debate about this. Like if we were to find zero

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Corinthians, which is the letter that Paul wrote before first Corinthians. Right. It's like the prequel.

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Right. Okay. We know that he wrote another letter before that one, but we don't know what it is.

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Okay. Where did it go? Right. If that letter were to pop up. They got so angry, they burned it.

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No, I'm just kidding. Probably. Yeah. Knowing the Corinthians. This is garbage. Throw this out. Let's just keep on doing what we were doing.

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And then Chloe's people report to Paul. Do you know what it is the Corinthians are doing? Yeah. Then they're convicted the next time around.

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And so they hold on to that letter. Yep. That's all speculative. We're just yeah. But then there's also the letter to the

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Laodiceans. Because Paul says to the Colossians, I've written a letter to Laodicea. Yeah.

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Go read the letter I wrote to them. Right. And also share with them the letter I wrote to you. So we don't have that letter either.

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We don't have the one that Paul wrote to the Laodiceans. So there's just a few missing.

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There's just a couple of evidences of letters that have been written that we don't have in canon.

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So then the debate pops up. If those letters were to show up somewhere, would we have to include them in canon?

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No. No. And I don't think so. I think that the Holy Spirit has preserved for us those letters that we are to consider to be the word of God.

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And if those letters have been so long lost for the last 2000 years, if they were to show up, then, well,

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I mean, that's quite a debate we're having there at that point. Well, should they be included in canon? Should they not? No. Canon is closed.

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Right. Canon is completed. What we have. Scripture is sufficient. That's right. What we have as these 66 books is sufficient.

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If you wanted to add in zero Corinthians and the letter to the Laodiceans, then you would be saying that scripture is insufficient.

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I'd just be curious as to what they said. I would like to know that, too. It's probably similar to 1

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Corinthians. I'm just saying. But I don't know about Laodicea, that letter to them.

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I would imagine it was probably pretty similar to what was written to the Colossians. True. Because Laodicea. Because he said that go read that and have them read yours.

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Yeah, that's true. Laodicea was just a few miles away from Colossae. They weren't that far apart. And so the kinds of things that the

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Colossians were going through were similar to what the Laodiceans were going through. Though the Laodiceans were a richer city and Colossae used to be that way until the road that went through Colossae got rerouted through Laodicea.

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Then Laodicea got all of the riches and benefits that Colossae previously had.

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I don't know. Maybe the letter that Paul wrote to the Laodiceans looked like the way Jesus addressed the

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Laodiceans in Revelation chapter three. Maybe, I don't know. I don't know. It would be interesting to know what was said there, but I don't think.

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I think historically it would be neat. Right. But as far as scripture goes, it is sufficient. Yes. If it was insufficient, we would have that already.

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Yeah, we would have holes that we need filled. Right. Like scripture is insufficient here.

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We need zero Corinthians and Laodicean. Right. Let's see Ephesians. Ephesians was the letter written to Ephesus.

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So to Laodicea, the letter would be called Laodicean, Laodicean.

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I don't know. I have no idea. I was trying to think what you would call that letter,

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Ephesians, Laodiceans. I guess that's what you would have to say. The letter to the

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Romans is called Romans. So the letter to the Laodiceans would be called Laodiceans. There you go. If we had it, that's what it would be.

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But yeah, I don't think they're ever going to show up. And I think that itself is also by the providence of God.

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Oh yeah, definitely. He's made sure those letters are not going to show up. But yeah, I think

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Becky makes a good comment there. If we were to add them into scripture, it would be to make this statement that scripture has been insufficient for the last 2000 years.

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Right. So we need to add a couple more books to Canon. And I just don't think that that is what the

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Holy Spirit of God has intended for us. He's given us everything that we need to know Jesus.

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Yeah, exactly. That's right here in the Bible. Did we answer Sonia's question? We kind of got on that tangent there.

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Okay. So he went to Spain and then he was on his way back and he got arrested again.

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Yes. And then he was in Rome and he wrote to Timothy, right? And then had

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Timothy bring him his things because he was going to write some more. And then he was martyred. Yeah. And we don't know, did

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Timothy make it to Paul? Was he martyred before Timothy got there? Was he martyred while Timothy was there?

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There's some things in there we don't know about that. Right. Yeah, definitely some blanks that won't be filled for us probably until we get to glory.

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And we see the apostle Paul with his head on his shoulders and all. Oh my goodness.

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He won't be beheaded in glory. Well, let's hope not. He has a new body.

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That's right. Our lowly bodies have been made to be like Christ's glorious body.

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Also said to the Philippians by the power that enables him to subject all things to himself.

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Our citizenship is in heaven and from it we await a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Philippians 3 .20.

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Then verse 21, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body. Therefore, my brothers whom

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I love and long for my joy and crown stand firm, thus in the Lord, my beloved.

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The Lord was faithful to Paul, even being martyred, he received the crown of glory that he had been promised for the endurance, the work that he did, his steadfastness under trial, imitating

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Christ, pointing others to the gospel. The apostle Paul was faithful to the end and he heard entering into glory.

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Well done, good and faithful servant. So if you want to know what happened to Paul, there you go. That's the end.

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Well, his end. Yes. Hope we covered that. Nevermind, that's bad. Some of what happened to Paul, we get from scripture, hints from scripture.

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Because yeah, the story of his martyrdom is not written here. Right. Nor Peter's. So we come to understand how

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Peter was martyred, how Paul was martyred from church history. We've got hints from scripture, but then church history kind of fills in the rest for us.

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Yeah. And it's not that we consider church history to be scripture, even the. No, definitely not. Yeah.

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Even the patristic fathers had some problems in some of the stuff that they wrote. We wouldn't regard that as scripture, but it at least helps us to understand.

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To fill in those blanks. Exactly. Some of that story that happened beyond what scripture did tell us.

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We have hints of what happened, and then we can kind of look into church history and kind of finish the rest of the story from there.

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Ah, that's what happened to those guys. Of the guys. Of. But not it wouldn't have to be.

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I mean, it's not about Christ at that point. It's about those guys. Well, it is about Jesus.

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They died for Christ. Well, that's not what I meant. Like, it's not Jesus's story. Yes, it's not his story.

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Right. Right. So that's why it would be just a historical. It would not be scripture.

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Yeah, I'm trying to. Does that make sense? I understand what you're saying, but we also. I can't spit it out.

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But we have stories of martyrs like Stephen, James. Yeah. That were murdered even over the course of the story that was being told to us.

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So we have those examples that are given to us. It's just when it comes to Peter and Paul. Their story really wasn't finished when we were reading, when scripture and canon were being put together.

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The only person that had to write yet after Peter and Paul was John. Oh, yeah.

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So he wrote his epistles. And I've made this argument before. I think we did this when we were going through the gospel of John.

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But I'm a late dater, even though I am not a dispensationalist.

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But I do believe in the late dating of the book of Revelation.

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I think it was written after 70 A .D., not before. And Paul's epistles likewise were written first, second and third

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John after the destruction of the temple. And I think that the strongest evidence is in the gospel of John itself.

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That it was written after 70 A .D., covered that when we were going through John. And so if he wrote the gospel of John after the destruction of the temple, it doesn't make sense to make the argument that first, second and third

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John in Revelation would have been written before the destruction of the temple. Yeah. Anyway, another tangent here.

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But all of that to say, the only apostle, yes, the only apostle that wasn't was

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John. Was John, right. He lived to an old age, but he still was exiled. I mean, he still suffered persecution.

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He just a different kind. Yeah. Died of an old age in Ephesus, I'm pretty sure. And Timothy also died in Ephesus, but Timothy was martyred.

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That's another story that we get from church history. He was trying to stop some pagans from going to the temple to worship.

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And they killed him. Oh, my goodness. So. Well, thanks for listening.

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Fun stories. Thanks for listening today, folks. If you want to send an email. I'm just kidding.

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I was trying to figure out the awkward pause there. I thought you were going to. No, I was just going to be awkward.

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It's just not a happy subject. No. It's. But consider the reward that they received.

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Oh, I know. We're supposed to be joyful in our sufferings and all that.

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It's just it's it's still sad. I mean, yeah, if you have a loved one who is persecuted and dies, it's really hard to go.

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You know, awesome. He's going to be with the Lord in glory. I mean, you're still going to mourn. Oh, yeah. And it's right to mourn.

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It is. Because that person who was a fellow believer with us while we traverse this earth together was helping us grow in our sanctification.

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Right. And now taken from us, there is an emptiness there. And we also mourn over the fact that death still exists in this world as a result of sin.

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The reason a person dies, even when they die, sharing the gospel of Christ is because of sin in this world.

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Right. And we're still longing for and waiting for the day when Christ returns and destroys that last enemy, which is death.

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And then we go to be with him in a place where death is no more. And praise the

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Lord for that. Amen. All right. So this being Friday, we take questions from the listeners. And you can send those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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We've already taken one question from a listener. One of our most faithful listeners, incidentally.

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But she did not email. She didn't email. Didn't she text it, though? She did text it. It still came via a digital summons.

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Okay. A digital summons. This next question comes from Eli in Colorado.

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He says, Dear Pastor Gabe, thank you for your blog on Francis Chan that you did last year. I share it with many who are unaware of the shift that he has made in recent years.

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I think I heard you on the podcast talk about the comments that he made about the Lord's Supper. Did you see this recent clip that just came out with Francis at Moody Church?

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Would love to get your take on this, Eli. P .S. You probably don't remember me, but I visited your church a couple of years ago when we were passing through the area on vacation.

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I have to admit, I was surprised by how small it was. Why isn't half your town attending your church?

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I don't mean that to knock your church. I just don't think your city understands the treasure your church is faithfully preaching

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God's word literally day in and day out. Praying for your ministry. Thank you,

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Eli. It was very kind. Yeah, this is a tough town to evangelize in.

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Very tough. And I've done it quite a bit. It's been a few months. I've actually not been out in the community doing any evangelizing in the last few months because it's cold here in Kansas.

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Most people aren't out either. Yeah, it's hard to find people kind of walking around in public.

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That aren't grumpy because it's cold. Yeah, because of how cold it is. So you can't get them outside. You can't get them to stop and talk to you very long.

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I have done some conversational things with people, but just not been out doing public evangelism, handing out tracks.

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I still leave tracks in the little brochure box at the gas station. Oh, yeah.

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I'll still put like the what brochures in there. And then when I go back, I don't see them.

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So I don't know if... They go somewhere. Yeah, they go somewhere. If an employee got them, if a customer grabbed one.

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I don't think we've seen anybody come in the doors as a result of that. But anyway, thank you. Thank you,

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Eli. Yes, thank you. A lot of people in our community do attend church. I mean, we're in a red state.

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So you encounter people that just think that, hey, because I live in America, then I'm a Christian.

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Difficult to convince them to go to church, though. A friend of mine, Chris Bolt, some of you might know him, maybe follow him on Twitter.

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He made a comment recently, I think was a pretty good observation. He said that public attendance in a lot of places is down, like malls, department stores, going to the movie theater.

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Definitely. So it's not just church attendance. And I mean, that's social media for you.

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Yeah. People think that they're connected with other people through social media. Yeah. And it's one of the reasons why at the end of this program, even during the devotionals that you listen to during the week,

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Becky will come in and say, hey, we thank you for listening to the program, but we're not your church. Right. Definitely.

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So please go to church. We are not the substitute. Yes. Unless you absolutely are not able to get out physically.

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Yes. If for some reason you're infirmed, there's not a way that... There are exceptions to every...

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Yes. Which we have sheeple in our congregation who are that way, cannot get out. So we go to them.

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We do. We visit them and help them. Although, even if that's the case, if you're infirmed, unless you're like really, really infirmed, if it's just a problem of getting up and walking around,

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I would hope that your church has some kind of busing ministry, that they can help to get you from one place to church.

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Because there's just nothing like being with the believers in church. Amen. And singing hymns together. You can't get that kind of wonderful fellowship and rejoicing listening on the radio or listening to a podcast or somebody sends you

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CDs or something like that. Watching it on YouTube, watching a live stream. There's just nothing like being with believers and fellowshipping together and taking the

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Lord's supper together. Oh, yes. And rejoicing in baptism together. Yep. Singing songs is what we've been instructed to do.

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Yeah. Ephesians, Colossians, Colossians 3, 16. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, making melody in your hearts to God.

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Anyway, back to Eli's question here. And that was all talking about church. Yeah. Difficult to motivate people to go to church.

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I hear you. Definitely. But the thing on Francis Chan, we did talk about his comments related to the

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Lord's supper. This was a couple of months back. And then he pops back up again on social media, making these comments about healing a village.

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In case you haven't heard this, here's the clip of Francis Chan. But I tell you, when

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I was in that village two weeks ago, no believers, they don't even have a comprehension of healing.

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I'm going, God, please, please hear. People started coming forward for healing.

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Every person I touched was healed. You guys, okay.

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This is craziness to me. I have never experienced this in 52 years.

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I'm talking like a little boy and a little girl who were deaf. And we lay hands, she starts crying and smile.

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Again, these are not Christians. These are not people who even heard about Jesus. And she's freaking out.

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And we're like, lay hands on your little brother. You know, we lay hands on him. And he starts hearing for the first time.

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Like you guys, this is out of my comfort zone. This is stuff I'd read about. But I'm going, man, it happened.

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It happened. I mean, just stuff like left and right. I'm going, this isn't.

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And that's why I'm going, God, I don't want to leave this. This is, I mean, I thought

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I had faith, but my faith was at another level. So yeah, there's the clip of Chan talking about the miraculous healing that was going on in this village.

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And so I made a comment on Twitter about this. I said that it's not that I don't think that God no longer heals people.

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Okay. I'm absolutely convinced that God heals people. Right. In fact, we have instructions. We pray for.

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Right. Healing. We pray for healing. We have instructions even in James five. If any of you are sick, let him call for the elders of the church, which is not what people do in these charismatic circles.

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They're always looking for the faith healer, you know, not calling the elders of the church to come to my home, privately lay hands on me.

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Pray for me. Anoint me with oil. They're not following that instruction. Right. They're going to the, you know, the big.

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They're going to. Yes, the faith healers got the big thing, and he's passing around the Kentucky fried chicken buckets, and everybody's throwing their money in.

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And then the healing starts. We're going to lay hands on a few people. They're going to collapse on stage, and we're going to heal them of their blood pressure and, you know, leg spasms that they have late at night in bed.

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Yeah. Things that really don't have any evidence of these miracles actually taking place.

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And these are the kinds of people that Francis Chan has been hanging out with. So I said in my comment, it's not that I think

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God no longer heals people. It's that Francis Chan left his church, left orthodoxy.

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Because remember, we were talking a couple of months ago about his comments about the Lord's Supper, which sounded very

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Catholic, Roman Catholic. He started ministering with charlatans and heretics,

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Todd White, Benny Hinn, the Call Ministry, which is now called The Send or something like that, with Heidi Baker, who was involved in those conferences,

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Bill Johnson, Mike Bickle over at IHOP. This is the company that Francis Chan keeps now.

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And he's rejected any appeals for correction. And suddenly he's healing a village of people?

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Yeah. Sounds to me instead like he's been influenced by the charlatans that he's been hanging out with.

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It's very, very difficult to believe that this thing that he's doing, you know, he says they're 52 years.

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I've never done anything like this before. And it's only when you start hanging out with the charlatans and eschewing sound orthodox company, that you start going to villages overseas and healing people.

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Really difficult to believe that. That makes your faith that much more. Yeah, right. Which is, you know, you had the people telling

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Jesus, give us a sign. And he says, a wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign. Yeah. No sign is going to be given to this generation, but the sign of Jonah, which was

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Jesus dying on the cross, being placed in a tomb, rising again three days later.

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Right. And that's the sign. Isn't there a Bible verse or a proverb maybe that says about that you are the company that you keep?

28:34

Well, yeah, bad company corrupts good character is what it is. And Paul repeats that with the

28:39

Corinthians as well. So in Mark chapter one, starting in verse 32, that evening at sundown, they brought to Jesus all who were sick or oppressed by demons.

28:52

And the whole city was gathered together at the door. And he healed many who were sick with various diseases and cast out many demons.

29:00

And he would not permit the demons to speak because they knew him. So not to say, hey, you are the son of the living

29:07

God. Not time for that yet. Right. So then verse 35 and rising very early in the morning while it was still dark, he departed and went out to a desolate place.

29:19

And there he prayed. And Simon and those who were with him searched for him. And they found him and said to him, everyone is looking for you.

29:28

And he said to them, let us go on to the next towns that I may preach there also for that is why

29:34

I came out. And he went throughout all Galilee preaching in their synagogues and casting out demons.

29:40

Once again, verse 38, he said to them, let us go on to the next towns that I may preach there also for that is why

29:49

I came out. You don't need the miraculous signs. Right. You just need the gospel.

29:56

There was a time and a place for those miraculous signs. And it was to affirm it was to affirm apostleship that it would be known that these apostles had been appointed by Jesus and sent by God to preach the gospel.

30:10

That was the reason for the signs. It was it was the reason that the prophets were given signs, the ability to perform those miracles.

30:18

It's the reason why apostles could perform those miracles. I'm sure that's why the the repercussions about being a false prophet was so extreme.

30:30

Well, it says Deuteronomy 13 and Deuteronomy 19 that you'll have false prophets that will come and perform great signs and wonders.

30:37

But the Lord God is testing you to see if you love the Lord, your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

30:43

No, that's not what I was meaning. I was meaning like you put to death the false prophets. Right. Yeah.

30:49

And so that I mean, why so extreme? Because that's from that's from God.

30:55

You know, the gift is from God. And so if they're pretending that they have the gift, they're.

31:02

Well, insulting God. Yeah. We have to believe that to some degree they were able to do something supernatural.

31:09

You just think, for example, of the the demon possessed guy, the guy that was possessed with legion who lived among the tombs.

31:17

They even tried to shackle him with chains and chains couldn't hold him. True. Like he was snapping chains apart and people were just terrified of him.

31:27

So they wouldn't go where the tombs were, because that's where he lived. He was there in the tombs. So there's something supernatural.

31:34

OK. And I've seen some strange things, too. Yeah. Like not recently. This was years ago.

31:39

But I've seen enough strange things to go. This is demonic. Like this is wicked. But there's clearly something supernaturally wicked that's going on.

31:48

God, you know what I mean? So when Moses is warning about these false prophets in Deuteronomy, he says they're going to come and they're going to give you a false sign or a wonder.

31:57

And when that false sign or wonder comes to pass, when they even prophesy something and that thing that they prophesy comes to pass.

32:06

But then they tell you, let's go after other gods and worship them. You shall not listen to that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the

32:14

Lord your God is testing you to see whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.

32:20

Instead, you shall put that prophet to death. Because this is a prophet who is claiming to speak the word of the

32:26

Lord, which he's blaspheming. That's what I was saying. Weren't you saying like the power that they had, they were claiming to be from God?

32:34

Well, I mean, I was saying that they were pretending to have that power. But still the same concept.

32:42

They're performing some power that doesn't really come from God. Right. It could be the strength or power of something demonic.

32:49

Right. And which is why then they're telling people, let's go after these other gods. Or they could be just faking it. Yeah, there could be that too.

32:56

Yes. There could be those guys who just have that ability to do, you know, great magic tricks.

33:01

Look over here. Yeah. But even, you know, even Pharaoh had his magic guys.

33:08

True. That duplicated the stuff that Moses was doing to an extent. Yeah, that was weird that they would be able to do.

33:15

I mean, everything that they were able to do. Well, it was part of the Lord allowing them to be able to do that so that Pharaoh's heart would be hardened.

33:24

Yeah. For God said, for this very purpose, I've raised you up that I might make an example of you.

33:30

And that's what the Lord did through Pharaoh. It's in Hebrews chapter two. And Becky and I have come back to this passage before, where it says, you must pay close attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it.

33:42

For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation?

33:54

It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard. While God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the

34:04

Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

34:10

Now, we talk about these gifts being apostolic. And even though we read about in the book of Acts, men who weren't apostles yet able to perform these miracles, but it was still during an apostolic time.

34:21

And it was a confirmation of a message that was given to the apostles to preach.

34:29

These men may not have been apostles themselves, but they had these abilities that had been given to them by the

34:36

Holy Spirit, Philip being one, and his daughters were able to prophesy. Obviously, they weren't apostles, but this was all in a confirmation of the apostolic ministry that had been given by Christ to the apostles, which these women had come to be believers because they heard that message preached and believed it.

34:58

So it's still a confirmation of apostolic ministry, even though it wasn't apostles themselves who were doing these miracles.

35:07

But all of this was to verify the apostleship, the message that had been given by God to these men to go out and preach to the world.

35:15

Now that that message has been affirmed, there's not a reason for those miracles anymore. Just the same as we were talking earlier about closed canon, like nothing's going to be added to canon.

35:26

Right. How would we know if Zero Corinthians popped up that it was

35:31

Zero Corinthians or that the book that was written to the Laodiceans, if it popped up, how would we actually know that it was written to the

35:39

Laodiceans? How would we know it's not a forgery? Yeah, good question. How would we know that somebody's not taking it upon themselves to even compile various passages that come from other books in the

35:51

New Testament and put it in this letter to the Laodiceans and try to pass this thing off as genuine just to get a little notoriety for themselves?

35:59

Right. A little bit of fame, something like that. All of that stuff was verified by the eyewitness accounts when those things were delivered and spoken about during the first century.

36:10

So there's another reason why Zero Corinthians and the letter to the Laodiceans can't show up anymore with any 100 % credibility.

36:20

Credibility. Any 100 % verification because they would have had to have been verified 2000 years ago, which we can't do anymore.

36:27

Right. I think they've all passed. Yeah. And if somebody wants to verify that the word that they have has been given to them by God, well, let him raise the dead.

36:38

Yeah. Francis Chan really has no, he's got no way to authenticate what it is that he's saying.

36:48

Produce some eyewitnesses. Nobody who's even part of his entourage has a cell phone that they can pull out and video what it is that he's going on.

36:58

There's no video evidence of any of this, which is why I've heard Phil Johnson say this. Even when you hear stories of miracles being done and you have somebody might even pop up and say, hey,

37:10

I was there. I saw it. Why isn't this stuff ever authenticated? Why can't it ever be verified?

37:16

Because it's not real. Yeah. Because it's not real. We don't have any hard evidence shown to us to demonstrate that this kind of apostolic level of miraculous healing is actually going on today.

37:31

Nothing has ever been produced to demonstrate that. And we don't need it. We don't.

37:36

That's the thing. Yeah. Francis Chan did not need it in this village where he was preaching the gospel.

37:42

He says there, there aren't believers there. Well, he needed to be preaching the gospel. Right. No joke. Laying hands on people and healing them is not saving anybody.

37:51

He needs to preach the gospel, which has already been verified and true. And the Holy Spirit is doing that miraculous work in the lives of unbelievers, changing them into believers.

38:02

Now, there may be something that you have heard of called practical cessationism. And that's where, well, we believe that the apostolic gifts have ceased, but God is still healing.

38:14

Or there may still be an occasion where you hear about someone speaking in tongues. Right. Someone being miraculously healed, someone speaking in tongues.

38:22

Of course, for this to be miraculous, it has to be rare. It's not going on with the regularity that we hear about this going on, especially in charismatic circles, where it just seems like it happens all the time.

38:33

Right. So if it's not rare, then it's not miraculous. But I'm going to let Paul Washer here explain why he's a practical cessationist and explaining that term and what it means.

38:44

I look at what tongues are in the scriptures and I don't see them anywhere today.

38:52

What I see in the scriptures as being tongues. And I compare that to people who say they speak in tongues.

39:00

I see something completely different. So see, some people are cessationist.

39:06

That means they believe tongues have ceased. I kind of call myself a practical cessationist in the sense that I do not say those things have ceased.

39:15

I've seen God heal people, you know, but have I seen a man who had the gift of healing?

39:24

No. Have I have I. Here's what

39:29

I think. I believe tongues in the book of Acts. Every time it occurs, it is a it is a real phonetic language.

39:38

It is. It's a real phonetic language. And. Those are the only examples of tongues we have.

39:48

And they're real phonetic languages. And when they occurred, everybody knew something supernatural was going on.

39:54

I mean, if I just sit here and repeat over and over, I think she wrote a Honda. I think she wrote a Honda. There's something supernatural about that.

40:05

But if a man walks in from Uzbekistan. And I begin to talk to him, the gospel.

40:12

In his dialect. Everybody's going to know something's going on. All right.

40:18

I believe that they were always and I don't see that today. Now, I've heard on the fringe of missions where the gospel was entering in.

40:28

Even in modern times, godly Baptist and Presbyterian missionaries will tell you that strange things occurred.

40:36

But so that's the way I look at it. All you have to do now, if you say tongues and all that, it's the east, you know, and you've got your theological reasons, your doctrinal reasons for that.

40:48

You know, I know godly men, men that that have mentored me that I love who believe that. But in my conscience, where I am looking at Scripture, I don't say that.

40:58

But I do say this, define the gifts and you'll see that these supernatural manifestations and you will find that ninety five percent, at least of the people who say they've done them and have them.

41:12

It's a total contradiction to what the Bible says. So stay, just compare it to the word.

41:18

Now, some people will look at first Corinthians and say, but there's a tongue of angels. You know, first Corinthians 13.

41:24

That's not what he's saying. He could be using hyperbole there. I mean, you know, if I said.

41:32

If I was as big as a house, I wouldn't fight you. It doesn't mean

41:37

I'm as big as a house. And Paul says, if I speak in the tongues of angels, but have not love, that doesn't mean that there are men who speak in the tongues of angels.

41:46

And the fact that they say in first Corinthians 14, well, you know, it's an unknown tongue there. No one understands him.

41:52

And in the book of Acts, when they spoke, everyone understood them. But in first Corinthians, they speak and no one understands.

42:00

So it's a different kind of tongue. No, no one understands because no one spoke the language there that he was speaking.

42:07

And there was no interpreter to interpret it. You see. Now, Francis Chan has said that he has never spoken in tongues.

42:18

OK, I've played a video clip of him saying this before. It was when he was speaking at the International House of Prayer. OK, he's basically saying you all speak in tongues.

42:26

I don't speak in tongues, but we're still, you know, Christian brothers and sisters. So and I would say even there that that he doesn't have an understanding of tongues being actual languages.

42:36

Right. I would agree with that. His understanding of tongues is the jibbery blabbishness, you know, that the language between you and God only.

42:45

Yeah, right. The angelic language or this heavenly divine language or something like that. Which is totally nonsensical.

42:51

That would have been his understanding of tongues there. So he gives this story of going into this village and healing a bunch of people.

43:00

Why wasn't he given the ability to speak their language and preach the gospel to them? Wouldn't that question?

43:08

Wouldn't that have been the most practical, miraculous thing that could have been done in their midst if you're talking about leading a group of people to the knowledge, the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ?

43:19

They don't need to have a miracle done for them. They need to hear the gospel and have that spoken to them in the language that they can understand it.

43:29

Right. So shouldn't Chan have been given a gift of tongues to be able to preach the gospel to them?

43:36

Now, I'm not going to call Francis Chan a liar. I really don't know what happened. What makes him think that he healed all of these people?

43:43

Well, I also saw someone on Twitter explaining that in that specific area, they like to please.

43:55

And so it could have been the kind of thing where he thought he was doing a miracle and they were just eager to please him.

44:04

And so they made a big deal about what he was doing. Yeah. So, I mean, it might not be his fault.

44:12

Okay. Or it could be that it was. We just don't know.

44:17

We just don't know. We don't have the facts. I'm just highly skeptical that he was healing anybody in that village.

44:23

Again, just he's left a church, did not have a good reason for leaving that church.

44:31

Oh, and by the way, his leaving that church, the answer that he gives now is that God was calling him on to something else.

44:37

What, like God called Abraham? Yeah. So, again, he still comes into this charismatic sort of thing.

44:43

Yeah. The Lord called him. I was following the Holy Spirit. I can't disobey God. Too many things just aren't adding up for him to have much of a leg to stand on.

44:53

There's been nothing about Francis Chan's ministry in the last 10 years to have enough a genuineness to it, truthfulness to it, gospel base to it, to believe that what he was doing, that this miraculous thing he claimed he did actually took place.

45:10

I'm just, again, just highly skeptical of it. But thank you for your question. Where did that come from?

45:16

That was from Eli. Thank you for your question, Eli. Okay, this next question here,

45:22

I got to skip a couple because we've rabbit trailed way more than I thought we were going to.

45:27

Well, I mean, we played a couple of clips too. And we did. And I'm going to play one more clip here yet.

45:33

So this is from Ivan in Milwaukee. He says, Dear Pastor Gabe and Becky, last week you mentioned a

45:38

Q &A where Votie Bauckham said he discouraged listening to even Christian hip hop.

45:44

Do you know where I can find that Q &A? I would be interested to hear what he says, even if I might disagree with it.

45:51

Follow up question, given Votie's opinion that we shouldn't be listening to hip hop since it came out of gang culture, should we not view pop music and rock and roll the same way?

46:01

Rock and roll also came out of a rebellion against social norms. It's aggressive music associated with the devil and the occult, living fast and dying young.

46:10

And there's the old cliche of sex, drugs and rock and roll. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

46:15

Well, I'll share my thoughts about that. I went and dug up this clip from Votie Bauckham. I cannot remember the name of the

46:23

Q &A that it comes from. But if you're looking for it on YouTube, just type in Votie Bauckham Q &A. He's wearing a white polo.

46:29

Okay. So if you see that in like the video still, that's it. That's the one.

46:34

And it's probably even an hour long. But this is where that is. Here's Votie explaining why he's not even in favor of listening to Christian hip hop.

46:43

All right. You talk about hip hop, Christian hip hop. I'm not a fan of Christian hip hop.

46:49

I'm not a fan of hip hop. Hip hop is a culture that I believe is antithetical to the gospel.

46:55

I grew up with South Central Los Angeles. I grew up with hip hop. I don't mean I grew up with it playing in my home.

47:02

I didn't. I grew up where it grew up. And I grew up when it grew up. It comes out of gang culture.

47:09

Hip hop has a music. It's mainly rap. Hip hop has a graphic art.

47:15

It's graffiti. Graffiti was tagging for gangs to tag their territory. Hip hop has a dance.

47:22

It went from popping and locking to now animating and other things like that. Hip hop has a language.

47:28

It's slang. It's the bastardization of language. Hip hop has an ethos.

47:37

That ethos is aggressive. That ethos is arrogant. That ethos shoots the middle finger at the culture.

47:49

Much of it is degrading. It's degrading to women. It's not only degrading to women, it's degrading to men.

47:55

You walk around with your pants sagging and people looking at your underwear. You got a hat. You got to cock it all to the side. Again, why are we doing this?

48:04

It's not the best that culture has to offer. And we ought to be about the highest and best that culture has to offer.

48:13

And so if we want to evangelize to people in this inferior subculture, then we ought to.

48:21

But we do not drag the church down to this inferior subculture. Um, so that's my opinion.

48:29

Um, others will differ and disagree. Um, you know, but I'm, I'm not a white guy who's going to be labeled as a racist.

48:37

So I'll just say what I feel. And there you have it.

48:43

Yep. Voti's thoughts on hip hop. Yep. Now I'm, I'm of a little bit different take.

48:48

I very, very rarely disagree with Voti Bacchum. But I, I think that hip hop is something that can be redeemed.

48:56

It's true what he's saying about hip hop music, having an ethos. It's from a culture. All of that is true.

49:02

And it's something that we have to be mindful of. Oh, definitely. But like I said last week, there are some great

49:09

Christian rappers out there that have, I mean, it's basically, it's rhyming with a beat behind it.

49:15

Yes, I'm sure that it has roots in hip hop and rap culture, but I don't feel that way about the things that they're saying and what they're doing in these rhymes.

49:23

And a lot of deep theology even coming out of some of these rap songs. So I think that given that it's a style of music, that it can be redeemed.

49:32

And we can do something Christian with that, that would be an encouragement, even a sharing of the gospel through that.

49:39

Because we're not just talking about, you know, music in and of itself, music. We're talking about words in the music.

49:45

Right. That can be preaching the gospel to people and leading others to Christ, even being a sanctification of sorts.

49:51

So, yeah, that's to say that I do believe that music can be redeemed in that sense. Now, Ivan's question also had to do with rock and roll.

49:59

And what are my thoughts about rock and roll? So given what Vodie said about hip hop, could we not also say the same thing about rock and roll?

50:05

Since it's, yeah, it comes out of this rebellious culture. It's aggressive music, the devil and the occult, all of that in there, sex, drugs and rock and roll.

50:15

Yes. You know, if you've been a listener to me, a listener of me for a long time, you know that I was in radio for over 20 years before I became a pastor.

50:24

Becky used to listen to me on the radio. And I would host a program on Saturday night called

50:30

The Rock Show. And it was actually through that program that I won my two Radio Personality of the

50:35

Year awards. It wasn't through my regular drive at five, you know, a thing that I would do during the day. It was a rock music program that I did on Saturday that I gained the most recognition for.

50:46

And I loved doing that program. So I'm playing rock music, heavy rock music that you know from,

50:52

I mean, it could be anything from like Guardian and Striper and stuff like that from the past, to some of the modern artists like Skillet, Disciple, Decipher Down, Family Force Five.

51:03

Yeah. Toby Mac. Back in the 90s, I was playing DC Talk and Jars of Clay and PFR and, you know, some of those bands.

51:10

So that was the kind of music that I was really into. My favorite artist had always been Michael W. Smith. So even though I was playing rock music on a

51:19

Saturday night, my friends were always surprised to learn. Now, Gabe's listening to Michael W. Smith and Stephen Curtis Chapman in his room.

51:26

He's not listening to the heavy rock stuff. But anyway, that's another area where I think that those kinds of things can be redeemed.

51:33

Now, being a rock music host, I would get invited to these rock concerts and I would emcee these concerts.

51:40

And these were pretty aggressive concerts. I mean, you're talking there would be mosh pits, there would be body surfing.

51:46

Yeah. There really wasn't a lot of gospel presentation there, to be honest with you.

51:52

It was just a bunch of Christians getting together, enjoying some rock music and having fun, I suppose, in a safer environment than if you were to go to a real rock concert.

52:01

Yeah. When I went to the secular rock shows, you can smell the weed as soon as you walk into the room. I had been to some of those shows before as well.

52:09

It is a horrible environment. I wouldn't recommend anybody go to any secular rock show.

52:14

But yeah, again, another one of those things I think can be redeemed. And you can listen to that kind of music that would be more giving glory to God than it would be the sex, drugs, and rock and roll side of things.

52:28

There is a talk that I go around and do with youth groups, and I've been doing it for the last 15 years or so.

52:35

I do this once or twice a year where I will share with them about the dangers of the kind of music that they're listening to.

52:41

I have one of these recorded from last year. I'm gonna try to dig it up. And I don't know how

52:46

I'm gonna present this, whether it'll be in a YouTube video because it's just an audio file. Okay.

52:51

Or whether I'll throw it like on a Saturday special sort of a thing on the podcast. Yeah. But I'll try to find that and share it.

52:58

The dangers of the music that we listen to. Good Fight Ministries on YouTube also produces a lot of good stuff that you can go and watch some of their videos and some of the warnings they give about some of the most popular artists that are out there.

53:12

And even like you find out about stuff that they've said about selling their soul to Satan. Like it's not just said in this metaphorical sort of a sense.

53:21

They really think that they've received some sort of supernatural power to do the kind of music that they do. It's crazy.

53:27

It's crazy and creepy. You gotta be real careful when you step into that world. But I mean, really it boils down to what...

53:37

Is it bringing you closer to Christ or further away? I mean, with the rap and the heavy metal.

53:44

I mean, artists fall away whether they're singing hymns or if they're doing the rap or heavy metal too.

53:53

So you just be careful about what you're listening to and the content.

54:00

And I don't know, any other advice? No, I mean, it comes back to the way that we started.

54:05

Reading that passage from Philippians chapter four. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, honorable, just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

54:22

If even as we've been discussing this here and you've heard Voti's explanation of hip hop and you've heard my explanation of rock music, you're not convinced by me.

54:31

You're more convinced by Voti. You're going, maybe not. Maybe we shouldn't be listening to any of that stuff.

54:36

That's between you and the Lord. And that is fine. Yes, and I would make that a Christian liberty issue as well based on the principles that we have in Romans 14.

54:45

Yes. I personally don't listen to rock. I haven't since I stepped out of the radio world.

54:51

There was even one time when I found a couple of CDs I used to listen to and play on the rock show.

54:56

And I tried to introduce my kids to them. My kids weren't into it. Nope.

55:01

And I wasn't feeling it either. I was like, boy, I'm just really out of this genre now.

55:09

Isn't really my thing anymore. So, but that's not to say that I look down on somebody who is listening to rock music and maybe does find some enjoyment in that.

55:17

I just hope that the kind of music that you're listening to is something that is pleasing unto the Lord. Amen. Let us think about these things.

55:24

There is a message in your music. There is. Who is being honored in that message in the music that you're listening to.

55:33

And a good rule of thumb is if you can swap out Jesus for girlfriend or boyfriend, start listening to something a little more sound.

55:43

There you go. That's a good principle. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, we thank you for our time together.

55:50

And I pray that we would have a mind that is set upon you. That we would be as Christ in our thinking.

55:57

Philippians 2 .5, have the mind of Christ. Even in our thinking, our thoughts giving honor to you.

56:03

Because it's our thoughts that can lead us down that path. Is it leading us down the path of righteousness because we have a mind that is trained on Christ?

56:11

Or is it leading us down the path that's gonna be craving for the things of this world because we have a mind that is trained on our flesh?

56:18

So let us store up into our minds, into our hearts, the word of Christ. And this be the thing that conforms us to Christ.

56:26

For Jesus himself said in John 17, sanctify them in your truth, your word.

56:32

God's word is truth. So let us hold to this, store it up in our hearts. Desire to live according to the instructions that you have given to us.

56:43

Keeping your commandments, for we love Christ. And this is the demonstration of our love for Christ.

56:49

That we obey what he has commanded us to do. Keep us in steadfastness, close to you.

56:56

Let us not be swayed by any of the temptations of this world. Lead us in paths of righteousness for your name's sake.

57:02

And we pray this in Jesus name, amen. Last week, at the end of last week's episode,

58:11

I concluded with Philippians 4 verses eight and nine.

58:17

Well, just verse eight. And I feel like it's a great place to start since we're gonna be coming back to some of these things to have our mind on what the scripture says here in Philippians 4, eight.

58:26

Of course. Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

58:45

What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things. Who was that?

59:00

Thanks a lot, babe. I don't have it set on Thursday nights. I'm sorry.

59:05

I was in a flow. You were, you were doing so great. I was totally in these scriptures here. I'm so sorry.

59:11

The spirit's gone. I mean, the spirit was with us. He was disrupted by a cell phone alarm.

59:17

I think, I think I saw a feather on the floor. Some gold dust. All right.

59:24

Sorry. I think I can come back to this here and I'll just, I'll splice it in there. I'm sorry.