The Predestination Debate-Christianity & Islam

Predestination in Reformed Christianity and Islamic Qadr

All right, well, it is truly an honor to be with you here this evening. Unfortunately, we have a very short period of time to cover a lot of material. And so let me just explain my intentions here. We may be calling it the predestination debate, but it's not like there is a thesis that can be proven or disproven.

My desire this evening is to present to you a reformed Christian understanding of the relationship between God and His creatures, His creation, His purpose in having created us, and demonstrate the consistency, the beautiful consistency that I see in Christian theology in regards to the subject, the incarnation of Christ, the gospel, etc., etc.

And then Yusuf is going to present his understanding of the concept of hada in Islamic theology, and then we're going to have some discussion concerning how these two concepts relate, how they differ, how they're related to our understanding of how a man is made right before.

God.

But given that we are in an Anglican church, I thought I would start off with this definition from the 39 articles of the Anglican church. Predestination to life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby before the foundations of the world were laid, He has constantly decreed by His counsel secret to us to deliver from curse and damnation those whom He has chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation as vessels made to honor.

Wherefore, they which are endowed with such excellent a benefit of God are called according to God's purpose by His Spirit, working in due season. They through grace obey the calling. They are justified freely.

They are made sons of God by adoption. They are made like the image of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. They walk religiously in good works, and at length by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.

Now you can tell by some of the language there, that's from 1562. I happen to believe that God's truth remains God's truth, whether it is 500 years old or 1 ,000 years old, or anything else it might be.

And that, the 17th of the 39 articles, expresses very succinctly what I believe concerning this truth. But if I might turn to Scripture, here is, I think, a very excellent summary from the Apostle Paul from his epistle to the Ephesians.

He says this, in all wisdom and insight, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his kind intention, which he purposed in him, that is, in Christ Jesus, with a view to administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ.

Now let me just stop there for a moment. This is the essence of Christian theology, that the triune God in creation is summing up all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth.

In him, that is, in Christ, also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to his purpose, who works all things after the counsel of his will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of his glory.

So here is this description of God as the one who works all things after the counsel of his will. Well, how can this be? We live in a day where mankind is king. Mankind gets to determine everything now, does he not?

Well, not from a biblical perspective. Let me just share a couple of texts from the Old Testament with you on this subject. Whatever Yahweh pleases, he does in heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps, Psalm 135, 6.

Whatever he pleases, not whatever man pleases, but whatever he pleases, he does. Isaiah 14, 27, for Yahweh of hosts has planned, and who can frustrate it? And as for his stretched out hand, who can turn it back?

This is often said in the context of mankind trying to resist God's purposes, and the scriptural response is, if Yahweh of hosts has planned it, who can frustrate it? In the book of Isaiah, chapter 46, verses 9 through 10, remember the former things long past, for I am God and there is no other.

I am God and there is no one like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, my purpose will be established. I will accomplish all my good pleasure.

This is God speaking, and he says he will accomplish all of his good pleasure. The 33rd Psalm, we are told, let all the earth fear Yahweh. Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. For he spoke and it was done.

He commanded and it stood fast. You see, very central to the biblical understanding of God is he is our creator. And I honestly believe that much of what's happening in especially Western culture today is the loss of that understanding that we have a creator and we are his creations, and we have a responsibility before him.

But there in Psalm 33, he commanded and it stood fast. Yahweh nullifies the counsel of the nations. He frustrates the plans of the peoples, but the counsel of Yahweh stands forever, the plans of his heart from generation to generation.

There is the direct assertion in inspired scripture that while the Lord nullifies the plans and intentions of man, his plans and intentions are absolutely certain and established. Going back to the prophet Isaiah chapter 41, present your case, Yahweh says.

Bring forward your strong arguments, the king of Jacob says. Let them bring forth and declare to us what is going to take place. As for the former events, declare what they were that we may consider them and know their.

Outcome.

This is where God is asking the people to bring their false idols and put them up on trial. This is, well, this is very good because we have some jurists here. This is the trial of the false gods. And here God challenges these false gods to answer some questions.

And in here he says to tell us what is going to take place. Only the true God knows the future. But how does he know the future? That's one of the questions we'll need to be asking this evening. Does he simply have knowledge of it?

Does he learn at some point in time what the future is going to be? Or is it because of his sovereign decree? But then a lot of people miss what is also said here. As for the former events, declare what they were that we may consider them and know their.

Outcome.

Do you understand what's being challenged here to these false gods? You see, a historian can tell you what's happened in the past, but a historian can often not tell you why things happened in the past.

God can tell you what the future is and he can also tell you the past and why the past has taken place the way that it did. God is not only omniscient and having all knowledge, but he says there is a reason why he is omniscient because he is the one who is accomplishing his purpose.

Or announce to us what is coming. Declare the things that are going to come afterward that we may know that you are gods, indeed good, do good or evil, that we may anxiously look about us and fear together.

So here there's even mockery of these gods because they can't know the future and they can't tell us why things have happened the way they did in the past. Even in Proverbs 21 .1, we're told the king's heart is like channels of water in the hand.

Of Yahweh.

He turns it wherever he wishes. God is in control even in the matters of human affairs. Even the pagans understood this. The pagan king Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel chapter 4. But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me and I blessed the most high and praised and honored him who lives forever for his dominion is an everlasting dominion.

His kingdom endures from generation to generation. Then listen, all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing but he does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth and no one can ward off his hand or say to him, what have you done?

Even the pagan king understands when he comes to his senses after he has been humbled by God. He comes to his senses and he understands no one can ward off his hand or say to him, what have you done? He does according to his will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of earth.

There are many people who'd be more than happy to let God do what God wants to do out there in space someplace, out there where it doesn't impact me as long as I remain sovereign in my life. Well, this is not the testimony of the scriptures.

These are the scriptures that the Lord Jesus honored. So what did the Lord Jesus teach upon this subject? Did he contradict the Old Testament scriptures? Certainly not. He considered them to be the very word of God.

When he quoted from them, he said, for example, David said, by the Holy Spirit, he identified his very high understanding and high view of the Old Testament scriptures. And so it's not surprising to us, for example, in John chapter six, that Jesus in speaking to the unbelieving Jews in explaining why those particular individuals were rejecting his teaching, why they were not listening to what he was saying.

This is what he said, all that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent.

Me.

This is the will of him who sent me, that of all that he has given me, I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. Do you hear what he said? He says to these individuals, all that the Father gives me will come to me.

That sounds pretty certain to me. He doesn't say most, he doesn't say some. He says all that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out. Many Christians love that last line, oh, if I come to Christ, I will never be cast out.

That's wonderful, but that's the second half of a sentence. And the theology of that sentence starts in the first half, all that the Father gives me will come to me. Who is the one who's coming to Christ?

Who is the one who's constantly coming to him? The one has been given to the Son by the Father. And then Jesus says, I've come down from heaven not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And what is the will of the Father for the Son?

That of all that he has given me, I lose what? A small portion? I do a really good job as Savior? No, I lose nothing. The Father's will for the Son is that he be a perfect Savior. For him to be able to do the will of the Father, and the Father, Jesus himself said, the Son always does what's pleasing to God, always does what's pleasing to the Father.

So for him to be able to do that, what does it mean? Jesus must be a powerful Savior. He must be able to accomplish that which the Father has tasked him to accomplish. This is the will of him who sent me, that of all that he has given me, I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day, to raise up on the last day, to give eternal life.

Sounds like the Father and the Son are able to bring about the salvation of a particular people, and that is the teaching of Scripture. Jesus went on to say a few verses later, no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

It is written in the prophets, and they shall all be taught of God, everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me. No one can come to me. What do you mean no one can come to me? Well unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.

If the Father draws to the Son, the Son raises that person to everlasting life. The perfect work of Father and Son together and bring about the salvation of God's people. It's not just in the Gospel of John, there's this very tremendous text in the book of Matthew, Matthew chapter 11, where Jesus says, at that time Jesus said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and revealed them to infants.

Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in your sight. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and what's the next line?

And anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal him. To know the Father truly requires the revelatory action of the Son. He is the one who reveals the Father to us. And so I could have started with the first part of Ephesians chapter 1, but now we've sort of laid a foundation in the words of Jesus and in the Old Testament, so now we can understand, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and this is speaking to Christians, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as he chose us in him, that is in Christ, before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before him.

In love he predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself, according to the kind intention of whose will? His will. To the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the beloved one, that is in Jesus Christ.

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished on us. This is the consistent testimony of Scripture. Oh, I am well aware of the fact that there are many today who find ways around this because in our day, mankind has to be sovereign over all things.

Man's will must be sovereign over all things, but that is not the testimony of Scripture. But someone might say, well, how can you put together the sovereign decree of God working out all things? You read from the 39 Articles, working out all things in accordance with it?

How can you do that and man be anything more than just a mere puppet? Well, there are three texts. I don't have time to read all of them, but let me just give you a reference to them and we can expand upon them when we have the opportunity to do so.

The Bible does give us an understanding of how we can relate together the sovereign will of God and the fact that God holds man accountable for acting upon his desires. The first is the story of Joseph and his brothers.

Remember Genesis chapter 50. The brothers of Joseph have sold him into slavery. Remember the whole story of Joseph in slavery and finally his revelation of himself to his brothers and his father. What they had done was a terrible thing.

They had sold their brother into slavery. They had deceived their father. And so after their father dies, they come to Joseph. They figure they're now toast. And what does Joseph say to them? As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result to preserve many people alive.

Joseph had come to understand. He did not excuse his brother's evil. He recognized what it was. It was evil. But you meant evil against me. God meant it for good. Same action. It was a sinful action. They are held accountable for acting upon their desires.

But God was sovereign over that situation. God predetermined it so as to save many people alive. It was his intention. Joseph had come to understand. It was his intention to send him to Egypt so that he might save his very family and to save many people alive.

Likewise, when you turn to Isaiah chapter 10, and it's a very lengthy section. I can't read all 14 verses. But Isaiah chapter 10, God proclaims judgment upon the people of Israel and says, I'm bringing Assyria against you, and Assyria is going to trample you down like mud in the streets.

They are going to bring judgment upon you because you've broken the covenant. But they don't intend to do that. They don't intend to be my instruments. Instead, they are very haughty, and they are very proud, and they are very arrogant.

And so when I'm done using them as the instrument against you because of their arrogance, I'm going to punish them. That's what it says in Isaiah chapter 10. Because they said, I will do this. I will do this.

They didn't recognize the sovereignty of God over them, and their dependence upon God. So God uses them and then judges them on the basis of what? The intention of their heart. The attitude of their heart.

But obviously, the greatest example, the greatest example is found in the early church. When the church is persecuted, told to stop preaching in the name of Christ, they gather together and they pray.

And what is the beginning of their prayer? For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur.

Do you hear that?

Think of the people that were involved in the crucifixion of Christ. Herod, Pontius Pilate, Gentiles, the peoples of Israel. All had different motivations, completely different motivations. And what did the early church profess?

To do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur. Here you have, in the inspired words of scripture, the sovereignty of God, and you have the responsibility of man. You have Herod. You have Pontius Pilate.

God holds them accountable for their actions because they act upon the desires of their hearts, and yet what they did was whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to.

Occur.

And so we have a sovereign God. How do we avoid the idea that man is merely a puppet? Well, here is where I hope we will be able to focus some of our time this evening as I close my opening time with you.

How do we avoid the idea that man is just merely on a string? Well, in Christian theology, there is something very, very important called the incarnation. The Son of God, the second person of the Trinity, entered into human existence.

He entered into time. He walked amongst us. We beheld his glory, the glories of the only begotten, the Father, full of grace and truth. And that means that if God is willing to enter into this time realm, this time realm matters.

Jesus wasn't a puppet. He wasn't just dancing on a string. What He did mattered. What He did accomplished the eternal redemption of His people. And so what we see is these divine truths, they are tied together in a beautiful tapestry.

The incarnation, the condescension of God, together with the hard truth that God is sovereign and He is accomplishing His will and His purpose in this world. I believe that the beauty of divine truth is seen in the Christian message and that it is that consistency over time that is so attractive to the heart that is under the influence of the Holy Spirit of God.

And I hope that this is something that we will be able to expand upon in the brief time that we have this evening. I thank you very much for your attention.

Islamic Qadr, Takdir, and Limited Free Will

Thank you very much, Dr. James White. You've stuck to the time, more or less, exactly. So it's now Mr. Yusuf Ismail. And Yusuf, I'd also appreciate if you do your best, 20 minutes. Thank you. So, are you more or less ready to go ahead?

I seek protection in God from Satan, the accursed one. It means in the name of God, most gracious, most merciful. These are not incantations, these are universal declarations, which we can all basically allude to.

I want to thank all of you for attending this program. I want to thank, firstly, the moderator, Dr. James White from Phoenix, Arizona. It's a privilege to speak in a church that is 125 years old, or so I'm told.

I was just having a chat with Reverend Faree two weeks ago, and he told me that sometimes things go bump in the night. So if there are any spirits or ghosts that are attending this debate, I also welcome them as well.

And I hope we have a good and informative session, and I hope we basically share and exchange our ideas, that we effectively are brothers in humanity and sisters in humanity, if not brothers and sisters in faith.

How do we focus on this particular topic? How do we deal with this? I'm going to basically, in my presentation tonight, I'm going to argue that the Islamic concept of Qadr, which can be viewed as the equivalent of predestination, but the Islamic concept of Qadr, or Takdir, is far more reasonable, and in fact, meaningful than the Christian concept of predestination.

Now, why do I say this? Firstly, the term Christian itself is loaded, because within Christianity, as within Islam, you've got a various array of interpretations on this particular issue. So it's important that when you deal with subjects of this particular nature, and the topic and the theme, that we go to the primary sources.

What you effectively saw in the 20 minutes when Dr. White was presenting his opening statement to you, was inherently something which was from the reform position, something which was basically Calvinistic.

A Calvinistic understanding of predestination would differ from, I would argue, even the Anglican Church, or some of the other denominations. At a primary level, he would, for example, believe, and I'm not going to focus too much on that, but he would, for example, believe that Jesus came and died for the sins of the elect.

Not for the sins of mankind, but for the sins of the elect. Who are the elect, and who are the non-elect? Well, this is something which is determined by God himself, but there is no discerning criteria existing in humanity to decide, these are my elect, and these are the non-elect.

There's nothing within them to say, this now basically entitles you to be the elect. So I think that's important to make that distinction. What are some of the basic concepts and definitions we're going to look at?

Well, firstly, we're going to focus and look at and unpack what the definition of the word qadr means. Is it the same as predestination? Do we have an equivalent to the Calvinistic understanding of predestination in Islam?

And I would argue that, and I was chatting with him this afternoon, that within the Islamic worldview, you have had a sect in history called the Jabariyya who believed in this notion of absolute predestination, that man is, in many instances, just simply a puppet, a lemming, and that God basically decides and decrees from time eternity what's going.

To happen.

And how does the Quran define qadr? And finally, we're going to try and contrast the will of man versus the will of God. Can one in fact speak about the whole notion of free will, limited free will, or basically absolute sovereignty from God?

So how does the Quran define this? Well, there's a dictionary called raghib. Raghib is a dictionary, he's an individual who wrote a dictionary called the al-mufradat fi gharib al-quran, and in it, it lays down certain understandings of certain concepts within the Islamic worldview.

In describing the concept of qadr, he says that this can be described as the making manifest of the measure of a thing, or simply measure. So God's takdir is in two ways, one, granting qadr, power, or by making them in a particular measure or manner as is required.

So for example, what is the takdir of a date stone? What do I mean by that? What is the penultimate outcome of a date stone? It's going to grow into a date. If you take popo seeds and you basically plant them, as my wife does, you plant them, what's.

Going to grow?

An apple, an orange, you're going to get a popo. Similarly with anything else, human embryo, unless you obviously are Jeff Goldblum in the fly, or in the island of Dr. Morrow, a human embryo is going to be a human being.

So from that perspective, one can see that when you look at the notion of qadr, loosely translated predestination in Islam, it's effectively the law or the ordinance or the measure which is working throughout creation.

In other words, in the language of the Quran, takdir, God's ordinance, it's a universal law of God operating in man and operating in nature. Now why do I say this? Well, we'll look at certain passages of the Quran and we'll focus on some of the utilization of this word qadr and takdir.

In Surah Yasin, chapter 36, verse 38,. وَالشَّمْسُ تَجْرِي لِمُسْتَقَرِ لَّهَا ذَلِكَ التَّكْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ and the sun moves on to its destination, that is the takdir, the ordinance of the mighty, the knower.

In other words, the sun is rotating basically on its own axis. If you look basically at another passage of the Quran, surely we have created everything according to a measure, Surah 54, verse 49,. إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدْرٍ qadr again, measure.

Allah, God measures the night and He measures the day, again the word is yuqadr, qadr. So in Surah 80, verse 18,. Of what thing did He create Him, God, of a small light germ? He creates Him, then proportions Him, the word is qadrahu.

So in other words, qadr, the final, this is what is decreed by God, this is how you are created. In Surah 57, verse 14, we have an interesting passage, Man causes his own fall, not God, They will cry out to them, Were we not with you?

They shall say, Yes, but you caused yourself to fall into temptation, And you waited and doubted, And vain desires deceived you, Till the threatened punishment of God came, While Satan deceived you about God.

Surah 8, verse 23,. And if God has made known any good in them, He would have made them hear, And if He makes them hear, Or if He made them to hear, They would still turn back while they withdrew. Now this doesn't mean that God fails, Or that God is a failure, But it simply means that man has a choice of discerning between right and wrong.

The Calvinistic understanding or interpretation of Christianity doesn't afford man that prerogative. Everything is from God, and that in fact creates fundamental problems, If I understand it correctly, and Dr. White can correct me in his time, When we deal with the subject, In the second half of the discussion.

Surah 11, verse 19, If thy Lord had willed, He could have made mankind one people, But they will not cease to dispute. So nothing stops God from engaging in certain actions. Nothing stops God from exercising His will.

But in certain instances, even if that were the case, People will still be engaged in wrongdoing. So according to all Arabic lexicologists, And in fact Arabic linguists, Taqweer is a universal law of God, Extending to the sun, the moon, the stars, the earth, the heavens, All that rests in them.

The law of life has witnessed in nature. And so Taqweer of a thing is a law, the measure of its growth and development, Taqweer of a man is no different. What are some of the myths that we need to effectively confront?

Well, here's a myth, number one, I would argue, The creation of good and evil. And I think here's where the parting of the way is, Not necessarily with Christians, but maybe myself and Dr. White. Taqweer meaning the absolute decree, Or predestination, meaning the absolute decree of good and evil by God, An idea which is collected in people's minds, Is absolutely unknown to God, the Quran, Or even to Arabic lexicology.

And I would argue, as many scholars have argued, That the doctrine of predestination, In the sense of God decreeing good and evil, Is of a later growth, More particularly from Persian religious thought.

Why do I say that? Because in Persian religious thought, Particularly amongst the Magians and the Zoroastrians, They had the whole notion that there are two creators, That there is a creator of good, and that there is a creator of evil.

And that became the central doctrine of the Magian religion, And just as the Trinity became the central doctrine of Christian faith. And so, Islam taught monotheism in its purest form, I would argue that probably in controverting the dualistic notion Of the Magian religion, That this discussion arose as to whether God was a creator of evil, And many other side issues subsequently sprang up.

So the Islamic view is that God created man With certain limited powers, Which he can exercise under certain limitations. Does that make sense? And to give you an example, man's speech. If you look at man's speech, for example, The power of speech can be used for good, can be used for evil.

If you punch someone, That punch that you blow that you lay on someone, It could be either an act of virtue or an act of vice. If you're acting in self-defense to protect an old lady, That could be an act of virtue.

If you're acting aggressively, that could be a vice. So from that perspective, it's not just simply a black and white issue. You need to look at a more nuanced, Broader understanding of this, As opposed to simply black and white.

There's only one instance in the Quran In which a derivative of taqdeer, Translated as predestination, Is used to indicate the fate of a person. Only one instance. And that is in relation to this woman, this lady, The wife of Lot.

In surah 15 verse 60, it says, We ordain, qaddarna, That she should be of those who remain behind. This is what the Quran states. And then subsequently, The whole Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. With the wife of Lot.

Bible says she was a pull of salt. Quran doesn't say she was transformed into a pull of salt. But she was of those that were destroyed. Now in that context, it doesn't mean That she is ordained to be evil.

What it means is that Here is an ordinance from God, Which holds good in respect of all evil people. That they should in fact suffer the consequences Of what they should do. So when divine punishment overtook them, She was basically ordained to be one of the people of Lot.

And so was consequently punished. And so, it's important That when you look at the will of God, And when you look at the will of man, There is a great deal of misunderstanding That exists as to the relation of the divine will of man And the divine will, and of course the will of man.

All the faculties which man has been endowed Emanates from the divine attribute. In fact, the hadith, There is a hadith which says, Imbue thyself with divine attributes. Just as God is just, you are to be just.

Just as God is in a sense holy, You are supposed to be holy. But not in the absolute sense. Just as God is perfect, you are to be perfect. But this is relative perfection. Just like Jesus says, be ye perfect, Even as your heavenly father is perfect.

You cannot be as perfect as the heavenly father. You can fall down, make amends, repent, And then if you're on the right path, God will guide you. So what you see there effectively is That these so-called faculties that God has endowed Emanates effectively from divine attributes, As I basically see.

And so consequently, man's will would stand In the same relation to God's will as his other attributes. Which would mean that man would exercise his will Under certain limitations and laws Dependent on the variety of circumstances Which may determine his course of action.

The choice to exercise it has not been taken away from him. Let's look at an example, a classic example here. If you have this notion that man has no free will, Or limited free will. Let's assume you have an old lady walking with a puppy On Musgrave Road.

And she's mugged, she's raped, And she's brutally murdered by a gang of savages, thugs. What happens there? If John Calvin was living amongst us today, He would have argued that that is under the decree of God.

Unless I'm mistaken, unless I'm mistaking Calvinistic theology. But that's what the implications are When we have this particular notion. So the Quranic position, I would argue, Is that man is free to exercise his will, And therefore, though he may not be responsible To the same extent for everything That he effectively does in all cases, Circumstances will obviously determine The extent of his responsibility, Which may be small, but nevertheless, by and large, He is a free agent.

He has to be. Otherwise, it defeats the very purpose of existence. If God decrees that this group, basically, Is unelected, and this is the elect, And that he's damned the unelected from inception, Then what's the very purpose of existence?

Why even bother punishing them? Why reward people who've already determined That they are your elect? That's a problem that we have as a Muslim, And so we would argue that from that perspective, The notion of limited free will makes more sense, And in fact, is scripturally valid, If we look at the Quran.

And I would argue even from the perspective Of the Old and the New Testament, which we may look. Now, this is not an indictment on Christianity, Or an indictment on Dr. White, whom I respect very highly, And certainly his worldview.

But I'm just saying that the potentiality Of the problems we create When we make these absolute statements. Here's another verse in the Quran, From Surah 6, verse 149 to 150. I know time is at a premium, as usual.

Here the polytheists were saying, they made the claim, That if God so willed, we would not have set up Any partners with him, nor our fathers, Nor would we have made anything unlawful. Why did, you see, God should have done, God should have willed, we wouldn't have done this.

Thus did those before them rejected the truth, Until they tasted the punishment. Now, here's the issue. The Quran responded to say, Have you any knowledge so that you would Bring it forth to us? You only follow a conjecture, and you only tell lies.

Say then, God is a conclusive argument, So if he had willed, he who had willed, Pleased, he would have guided you all. And so, there's a two-fold argument here. Previous people and previous generations Were punished by God.

Why were they punished, if they were, If God had willed their evil? Why would they be punished? Because, here's the argument by the polytheists, That God should have willed us to be on the right path, He would have willed us not to engage in polytheism.

And the second argument is that if God had willed, Then people would have been compelled To one trajectory or one cause, Not the opposite direction. And so, from that perspective, What you can see from the contention Of the polytheists is that the conclusion is clear.

If it were the divine will that people Should be compelled to one cause, Then they would have been on the course of guidance. But men are not compelled to accept even the right way, Much less could they be compelled to follow the wrong way.

And this is writ large in many passages of the Quran. Another verse of the Quran, God does not change a condition of a people Unless they themselves change it. You have to change it yourself. Now, the fact that God doesn't will you in one direction Or will you in another direction, Doesn't mean that he's not been glorified Or that he's a failure.